Christmas 2016 Gift From Bruce TPU

[Itsu]

Hi ION,

thanks for the info, yes i optimistically only ordered 5x the ZVP2110A MOSFETs, and i am now already working with the last 2.
The problem initially was that there was / is no mention on how the input square wave signal suppose to look like, and if one starts with
an AC or worse an all positive DC like square wave signal, the MOSFETs (gates?) will blow quickly.

Only after adjusting the FG to give an all negative square wave signal they kind of did what they have to do, switching.

And yes, the duty cycle and/or the amplitude of the negative square wave is very important to keep the current in the drain-source-battery-fuse-meter circuit
around the stated 7.5mA.

I recently tried with 24V and had to further adjust the amplitude to stay at 7.5mA

Scoping in this circuit is dificult as it seems to kill the effect (which there is) when putting the scope ground lead to the 36V negative lead.
The signals i do see are terrible, lots of ringing, probably due to the FG being in the circuit and / or the long WIRE to the 12V battery.


Anyway, i hope that Bruce can unlock his thread so i can post it there for other replicators (which there are) to see.

Itsu

[ion]

Hi Itsu

May I suggest that you include small incandescent lamps in the loops to save your FET's, at least initially until the circuit is tuned to the proper current draw.

As you know, the cold resistance of the lamps will be quite low but
(properly sized) will quickly protect by increasing the resistance should the current run too high.

If you are worried about the inductance of the lamp filaments you can put some small capacitors (0.1 uF) across the lamps, but for me this would not be a worry.

I also suggest you monitor the peak currents with a clamp type scope probe or CSR and try to not exceed the device peak ratings.

Also some 15V to 20V Zener diodes gate to source would help protect the FET's from oxide puncture.

Regards

[Itsu]

ION,

i do have a 12V (need to upgrade to 24V now) bulb in the plus lead from the batteries, it protected the MOSFETs already.

The below video shows there is current (AC like ringing) in the WIRE and also the magnetic field thats being picked up by the magnetic pickup loop.

I want to keep this replication as close as possible, so will do without any additional zeners for now, but thanks.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VJhf-LAkyY

Itsu

[Itsu]

This is the current in the 24V supply lead (Fluke DC mA meter shows 6mA).
The MOSFETs are not getting warm.

The ringing frequency is about 8.33Mhz.

Itsu

[ion]

Hi Itsu

It looks like the very low duty cycle is saving the FET's, i.e. being only turned on very briefly. The ringing from stray inductance in the circuit is probably most of what is being coupled to the pickup loop.  This reminds me of an early spark-gap transmitter circuit, where the occasional high current pulse rings the tank circuit.

Any attempt at tighter coupling and more efficient power transfer will tend to dampen the ringing. But maybe this is not the intent of the circuit  .

Yes, if you are careful about not exceeding the gate voltage then the Zeners are not needed.

Regards and happy experimenting

[TinselKoala]

What's it _supposed_ to do according to Santa Claws?

[ion]

What's it _supposed_ to do according to Santa Claws?

/-
He believes he has stumbled on to a FE device but offers no real proof with measurements.

Personally I think Bruce is grossly misinterpreting his meagre results. From what I can observe of the videos on his youtube channel, he has minimal skills and experience in electronics but lots of experience as a preacher.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TPUBruce/videos

Watch Bruce in action here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1B_FHa41c

Would you trust this man to guide you towards a FE machine? Well, regardless of skill or experience, Bruce continues to try, as he has been for many years, so I admire his persistence and tenacity to the subject.

[TinselKoala]

This is my impression also.

What I do NOT admire about him is his holier-than-thou attitude (but what else can one expect from a preacherman?) Like some others we could name he doesn't act like a seeker but like someone who has "found", but he himself cannot, however hard he has tried, actually DO what he pretends to teach others to do.

The funny hat is quite a feature, though.

(If God had wanted Man to have Free Energy, He would have given us the sun, the wind and the rain. Oh... wait........)

[Magluvin]

I was going to attempt this circuit.  After seeing the vid I was not encouraged further. Itsu has a very nice neat setup, more in line of what I might have expected from Bruce.

The only thing I might be in agreement on is the electrons being magnets themselves. Many reasons to possibly believe so.

Mags

[ion]

I was going to attempt this circuit.  After seeing the vid I was not encouraged further. Itsu has a very nice neat setup, more in line of what I might have expected from Bruce.

The only thing I might be in agreement on is the electrons being magnets themselves. Many reasons to possibly believe so.

Mags

Conjecture:

Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.

While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.

If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.

What also would be needed is a circular "racetrack" for the electrons and a means of nullifying the effects of the earth magnetic field. The earth magnetic field creates the unwanted incorrect alignment of electrons in the wire "racetrack" because of the electrons magnetic properties.

The earth magnetic field can be easily overcome with a toroidal overwinding on the "racetrack" wire and a weak DC current applied.

What is needed is a head to toe alignment of the electron's magnetic poles in the wire. The electrons can then find preferred pathways in the wire, minimizing wasteful collisions.

As the electrons are accelerated, there will always be a number of unwanted wasteful collisions with nuclei that will produce a heating effect in the wire. This is unavoidable.

These unwanted collisions will result in a sudden braking effect on the electron (bremsstrahlung) with the attendant release of electromagnetic radiation.

Bremsstrahlung is electromagnetic radiation produced by the deceleration of a charged particle when deflected by another charged particle, typically an electron by an atomic nucleus. The moving particle loses kinetic energy, which is converted into a photon, thus satisfying the law of conservation of energy.

Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.

This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.

So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.

The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.

Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.

[Itsu]

Thanks guys for your insights, very interesting ION.

What it suppose to do is create a magnetic field in the WIRE to the floating 12V battery without there flowing any current.
But the first screenshot above (post #28) surely shows a ringing like current flowing back and forth to the floating battery, so i guess this will
generate a magnetic field.

When i dissconnect the WIRE going to the 12V floating battery, the 8.33Mhz ringing signal on the current in the 24V supply lead stays, so
this WIRE does not work as a tank circuit then.

Itsu

[Magluvin]

Having the lone battery at the end of the coil would seem to be a reservoir that the coil can interact with to allow some current flow. Like when I did crystal radios as a kid, I could use a suspended in air metal pipe for the gnd end and still get signal, though not as strong as a true earth gnd.

Will be back later to respond further to your post Ion

Mags

[ion]

Thanks guys for your insights, very interesting ION.

What it suppose to do is create a magnetic field in the WIRE to the floating 12V battery without there flowing any current.
But the first screenshot above (post #28) surely shows a ringing like current flowing back and forth to the floating battery, so i guess this will
generate a magnetic field.

When i dissconnect the WIRE going to the 12V floating battery, the 8.33Mhz ringing signal on the current in the 24V supply lead stays, so
this WIRE does not work as a tank circuit then.

Itsu

Dear Itsu

I agree with mags

I suspect that the floating battery with one connection is merely adding extra capacitance to the surrounding environment and the same effect would occur with a cardboard box of the same approximate dimensions covered with aluminum foil. Nothing magic about using the floating battery IMHO.

[Dragon]

something similar from 1886, Amos Dolbear patent

https://www.google.com/patents/US350299

[CITFTA]

Conjecture:

Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.

While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.

If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.

Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.

This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.

So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.

The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.

Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.

Hello ION,

Your comments about unidirectional impulses reminded me of some experiments we did a few years ago when working with the Tesla Switch.  We discovered that if you pulse the primary of a transformer with DC pulses instead of AC you can get some pretty strange results.  I don't recall the exact frequency we used but I think it was in the neighborhood of 400 Hz or so.  When pulsing the primary of a 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer with 24 volts or so the normally 12 volt output would seem to adjust to whatever the load required.  I could light up 12 bulbs or 120 volt bulbs without changing the input.  Very strange behavior.

Take care,
Carroll

[muDped]

When pulsing the primary of a 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer with 24 volts or so the normally 12 volt output would seem to adjust to whatever the load required.  I could light up 12 bulbs or 120 volt bulbs without changing the input.  Very strange behavior.

Did you scope the waveshape of the loaded output to
evaluate why this was so?  There may be an explanation.

[Itsu]

Bruce unlocked his thread for now, so i put my relevant posts overthere.
Hopefully we will see some other replicators results and / or comments.

http://overunity.com/2300/bruces-tpu-theory-and-experiments-ver-1-2/msg515506/#new

Itsu

[Magluvin]

Conjecture:

Yes, electrons have also another important property......inertia. (see Tolman-Stewart experiments). In a circuit that rings as in Itsu's very nice scope capture we see the effect of ringing i.e. we have an impulse and electrons slosh back and forth wasting the impulse energy by radiating it into space at the high ringing frequency. Energy is also wasted in frictional losses in the wire and components.

While most have been trying to achieve better "resonance" and high Q circuits, it may be the very thing we need to avoid!.

If the inductive effects and ringing could be nullified or eliminated as far as possible, each impulse could (by proper circuit arrangement) be made to propel the electrons in one direction only, gaining speed with each impulse, and putting what energy would have been wasted to good use. More powerful impulses in a ringing (tank) circuit only increase the amplitude of oscillation, they do not appreciably change the frequency nor the speed of electrons, which are determined by the L-C components e.g. in Bruce's circuit, stray capacitance and inductance.

What also would be needed is a circular "racetrack" for the electrons and a means of nullifying the effects of the earth magnetic field. The earth magnetic field creates the unwanted incorrect alignment of electrons in the wire "racetrack" because of the electrons magnetic properties.

The earth magnetic field can be easily overcome with a toroidal overwinding on the "racetrack" wire and a weak DC current applied.

What is needed is a head to toe alignment of the electron's magnetic poles in the wire. The electrons can then find preferred pathways in the wire, minimizing wasteful collisions.

As the electrons are accelerated, there will always be a number of unwanted wasteful collisions with nuclei that will produce a heating effect in the wire. This is unavoidable.

These unwanted collisions will result in a sudden braking effect on the electron (bremsstrahlung) with the attendant release of electromagnetic radiation.

Thus far energy has been conserved, however the accelerated electrons may also provide an avalanche effect within the wire, providing a cascade of otherwise bound electrons to be released. And perhaps even those released photons can be put to good use.

This could result in a transmutation effect within the copper atoms of the wire, converting to isotopes of copper with large energy release.

So we may have built a tabletop high speed particle accelerator (an energy conversion device), and enjoy the benefits thereof.

The title was "conjecture", but was inspired by a very careful reading of SM's emails to Mannix. Even if SM was a fraud, he caused me to "ponder" in a different direction. Science fiction?...maybe.

Thanks to Itsu for the scope capture.

Some issues with what Bruce presented is that he wont give any specs to the coils used. Sure the wire gauge, but no turns numbers nor diameter and such. Said we have to experiment. I had to stop there with my interests in it. Like maybe if Itsu changed the dimensions and turns of the coils, would that change the ring freq he is reading?  Not lazy but like I said earlier, the mess bruce had on the bench in the vid also discouraged me as we might need to replicate the 'mess' to see his results there. Not sure.

Electrons have inertia? Cool. Ill look into your reference.

Im more interested in what Turbo had posted about the 3 windings at OU.  If the middle coil were a pickup or say collector coil, would applying input to the outer and inner coil have a different affect on the middle coil than if only the outer or inner coil had input alone? Just never thought of that before.

Mags

[ion]

Mags

It was exactly Turbo's drawing that got me re-thinking the TPU, Many of the ideas seem to be coming together into a possible clearer explanation of what might be happening in SM's TPU.

Let's discuss it further on the new thread I just opened, so we don't derail this thread.

Regards

[Itsu]

Thanks guys,

Mags, the "specs to the coils used" you mentioned above in your post is not really a coil, its just a length of wire as i understand it, i call it the WIRE.
But using my diy magnetic pickup loop, i did not get any readings from the wire, but after seeing Bruce his video, i understood to form a loop, or loops along
this WIRE to be able to pickup the magnetic (or RF?) field.

So in my next experiments, i will use a longer WIRE with severall loops along it to be able to "find" the strongest fields along this WIRE.

Itsu

[itzon]

I would like to give my simplistic opinion of what is happening with Bruces's setup.

The pulsing of current from the 36v battery makes a very high VSWR in the circuit.  The reflection caused by open
circuit needs to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is through "the WIRE" to the 12v battery that is
acting as a capacitor.  And yes there is current flowing there, but not from normal circuit conditions.

It is the mechanical equivalent of water hammer in a plumming system and "the WIRE" is the accumulator where the reflected pressure is mostly absorbed.

Does this make sense to anyone?

[ion]

I would like to give my simplistic opinion of what is happening with Bruces's setup.

The pulsing of current from the 36v battery makes a very high VSWR in the circuit.  The reflection caused by open
circuit needs to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is through "the WIRE" to the 12v battery that is
acting as a capacitor.  And yes there is current flowing there, but not from normal circuit conditions.

It is the mechanical equivalent of water hammer in a plumming system and "the WIRE" is the accumulator where the reflected pressure is mostly absorbed.

Does this make sense to anyone?

Hi Itzon

Since the claims? are nebulous and measurements are seriously lacking by Bruce, a good approach, as I suggested earlier would be to first replace the  battery with a cardboard box of the same physical dimensions that is covered with aluminium foil to simulate the approximate capacity and note if there is a large difference in power  This would be a control test to eliminate one of the magic elements and possibly blow a hole in the operating hypothesis alluded to by Bruce.

Measurements with an external RF sniffer can be tricky and may not reflect actual power delivered to a load.
Small physical changes can also produce large shifts in operation and measurements.

Where sharp pulses are part of the operation, I usually resort to thermal RMS measurement methods to investigate with greater certainty.

One suggestion would be to replace the LED with a small incandescent lamp where brightness is more easily referenced to power with the eye test. (pre-calibrated eye, of course!). LED's are notoriously difficult when used to gauge power levels.

[itzon]

Ion, I can't disagree with anything you just posted.

I will soon have what I need to replicate this.   

Although I'm not sure this is part of the answer to the TPU,  I do find it interesting.  Maybe changing the wiring from the mosfet to the +36v(except "the WIRE") to properly grounded coax cable will increase the effect?

[ion]

Since Bruce is using high side drive with a P channel mosfet, with source connected to the positive rail,  it is then necessary to reference the SG to the positive rail and set the SG to 95% on time to obtain an effectively 5% on-time of the P channel mosfet.

This circuit could be built in the conventional manner with an N channel mosfet ground or negative  of the battery power supply to the source and ground of the SG. Then a standard positive going 5% duty cycle signal from the SG would properly reflect the duty cycle on-time of the mosfet.

Since I don't have a manual for the SG, I don't know if the output is symmetrical around zero or if the output can be offset  pos or neg.

This just creates a layer of confusion. Perhaps Bruce has reasons for this which he has not mentioned.

[Itsu]

Itzon,

makes sense to me, its also my idea that the Wire has lots of reflections coming form the return line ringing signal.
The squarish like ringing signal on the WIRE compared to the sine wave like ringing signal on the 36V (24V in my case) lead, points to that i think.

When disconnecting the WIRE from the battery decreases the energy from my pickup loop, but does not stop, when touching that WIRE end with my finger it
rerurns to the same level as with the battery.

Will do some more testing with that like mentioned by ION.



ION,


The used FG is a dual channel version of the one i have, and it is able to offset the output pos or neg. by the blue pots (3 and 4), see picture.
I had to find out the hard way to put it all negative as it blew up initially some MOSFETs when using it with the output symmetrical around zero.

Not sure what the 95% and 96% Duty Cycle and 0° and 1° phase shifts of the both signal requirements add to all this, but i will find out soon when
my ordered UDB 1308S FG arrives from China.

Itsu