OverUnity Research

I know everyone has heard and read all sorts of things regarding "radiant electricity" and how you can charge caps and batteries with it.

I have a coil and pulse circuit that (I think) produces the RE effect.  How do I charge caps and batteries with it?

Come on Gentlemen!  Lay it on me! 

I want a motionless battery and capacitor charger.  How do I get there?

The attached image is probably the most basic circuit for RE charging:

EDIT: This too - http://scene.org/~esa/merlib/radiant_energy_antenna_system.pdf

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.27, 14:47:16
The attached image is probably the most basic circuit for RE charging:

EDIT: This too - http://scene.org/~esa/merlib/radiant_energy_antenna_system.pdf

This is one of several or many available on the 'Web:

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/harnessing_nature%27s_electricity.htm

--Lee

Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2010.07.27, 16:37:13
This is one of several or many available on the 'Web:

http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/harnessing_nature%27s_electricity.htm

--Lee

Interesting work.  I'm looking for examples that anyone can do and experimental data to support the principle.

I know of a way to charge a cap by rotating it, but this is impracticle, so I am looking to charge it without rotation.  Should work if you rotate the radiant force, but would be really sweet to not have to rotate anything at all.

Grumpy,

Either the 'force' is already rotating, always or it has a preferred handedness for things rotating within it.

Try making connection direction that seem counter intuitive.
Connect the other end of that core wire, through the load, to a good ground about 10m away. Direction between ground points may matter. I don't know, yet.

Things are looking good for my 'peristaltic charge pumping' trials this weekend.

The DC you reported seems like it is a very good thing to see  ;)

the vector orientations are critical and everyone gets them wrong and when they are wrong it can not work

What may have to rotate in one config will not have to in another.

Grumpy how fast do you need to charge caps?  The circuit diagram that you posted above will work without the hv supply just really slowly!

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.27, 17:43:21
Interesting work.  I'm looking for examples that anyone can do and experimental data to support the principle.

Here's another example of atmospheric charging with a long wire/co-ax cable:

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm

In any case, all one is doing is picking up 50/60 Hz line power from house wiring by induction in a city.  Rural applications require a whole lot more wire.  T. Henry Moray's smallest antenna was 300' long and 100' high, he said or wrote.
My former business associate and I were going to try and develop a commercially viable version of this idea, but patenting it may have presented problems due to "Public Domain" simplicity issues.

REEDIT:
Another:
http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/modern_radiant_energy_circuit.htm

QuoteI know of a way to charge a cap by rotating it, but this is impracticle, so I am looking to charge it without rotation.  Should work if you rotate the radiant force, but would be really sweet to not have to rotate anything at all.

That's a new one on me.  Never heard of 'rotating' a capacitor, or a 'radiant source' to charge it.  Is there some 'Web reference or other source of info on this?

--Lee

The Big:

QuoteMy former business associate and I were going to try and develop a commercially viable version of this idea, but patenting it may have presented problems due to "Public Domain" simplicity issues.

It's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.

MileHigh

@milehigh

QuoteIt's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.

I think that's open to debate, if I have a long antenna on top of my house and I can extract energy at 60hz then this energy on the antenna is on my private property. I did not coerce the energy to be there nor did I ask the power company to pollute my air space with EM energy. That is the real heart of the legal issue, the power company is not god they are simply a utility company providing goods and services and nothing more. If "ANY" company or individuals pollutes my personal space, my private property and if I can account for "who" caused this pollution then legally I have the right to make them stop. If they cannot or will not stop this EM pollution on my personal property then I should have the right to "mine" this resource. You see the moment the energy leaves the power line it is no longer their legal property, no more than the water from your sprinkler going over the fence into the neighbor's yard is legally your water . Can you steal water that runs or falls on to your property?, can you steal air from the space surrounding your house?, can you steal sunshine with solar panels? ---- no, as soon as the energy leaves the source of it's own accord it becomes public property. If they do not want people extracting energy on their own private property then the onus is on the power company to stop the radiation of energy from their lines.
Regards
AC

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.07.27, 23:28:03
The Big:
It's also illegal.  You would be stealing power from the power company.
MileHigh

Okay, you have a point:

http://www.ece.utk.edu/~icove/PowerTheft.pdf

However, as a point of discussion, assuming it was actually efficient enough to be possible, suppose I build a "Joule Thief" that runs off batteries, provides surplus power to an external load, maintains the same voltage on the original batteries indefinitely, and does all that in my apartment.


Now, if I used some kind of tower coil arrangement that 'leaked' some wattage to the surrounding wall wiring:

1. Would that be possible?   (Keep in mind that the "hot" and "neutral" wiring is as ungrounded as any induction scheme I could use.)
2. Would it be detectable by the power company?    (They probably have some kind of software to do this, but does it reverse detect overvoltage conditions?)
3. If it was a) possible and b) detectable, would it be legal to do if the power company benefited from the increased power addition to their lines?

Is there a lawyer in the OUR Membership?

--Lee

Wilson and Wilson performed experiments where he rotated the dielectric of a capacitor and charged the capacitor.

W. Roentgen and H. A. Rowland performed similar experiments.  The results of these experiments helped form the foundation of electrodynamics and should be required reading for anyone looking for an alternative energy source.  See the thread on my bench.

What I am proposing is not illegal (at least not publicly) and forms the tip of the ol' energy iceburg.  If you can charge caps and batteries, then you can figure out how to build true non-moving devices that take very little energy to produce useful electricity. The extra energy does come from the environment.  There is no magic, no new physics, just re-interpretation of what we already know.

I have been in this game for a few years now and I am weary from all the BS that surrounds it.  Bedini and Bearden's latest spiel and Chava's endless scam, and all the BS device that are never divulged just wore me down.  There are many that probably know, provide clues, but never really tell.  There are a handful that really do know and can't tell.  There are far too many that claim to know, talk endlessly about it and even charge a premium for it, but never provide anything of value.  It disgust me that those who can help are bound by governments and other powers while others who can't help at all claim to have it all figured out.   Hundreds look and look, but none are even close, and even after endless hints and instructions they come up short or just give up.

I don't have it all figure out, but I have a lot of it figured out and I expect to soon join others in exile.

So, how do we charge caps and batteries?

In the case of the spark plug battery charger you are not stealing electricity from the power company. Your relative location to utility power users or utility power is not a concern.

I learned that trick from a HAM book published in the 30's. Been using it ever since then (the late 60's, I think). Many HAMs use it for a fox hunt camping/outing (not the animal kind). My most remote usage of it was near Bull Frog Utah. There wasn't a power line within a hundred miles and everything electric ran off the vehicle batteries when not powered from the antenna.

I'm sure it will pickup 60/50Hz quite well if you wrap it around your house.

The static electricity is created by moving the air over the wire, moving/changing electric charge surrounding the wire, probably other things and if you aren't quick enough, a healthy lightning strike. That is the purpose of the spark plug - in case you aren't fast enough. You aren't much of a HAM if you don't put a lightning arrestor on your feed line before your rig.

Mine is connected to my multi-band dipole with the flip of a coax switch. It charges my UPS and emergency rig batteries. I fried the power supply for that laptop years ago. Don't need it.

If you think that isn't free energy - well.... I give up.

Before someone actually tries this simple toy, be warned. Stick the end of your coax in a large, dry and clean Mason jar if there is a thunderstorm within 50 miles or less. If you don't, you'll learn why.

@allcanadian,

With respect to your Reply #9, I've read in my 'Web research that different countries look at the question differently.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/metropolitan/06-kesc-obtains-fatwa-against-power-theft-01

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2007/8/7/24987/Electricity-theft-is-now-a-felony-in-Dominican-Republic

Look at this last one:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterfoster/3628961/The__strange_case_of_electricity_theft/

Do the "fat cat businessmen" deserve to express their greed legally while the proletariat masses suffer from the yoke of economic oppression?  I'm trying to be sarcastic and facetious at the same time.  ;D   :D   ::)

Seriously, people often steal because they're being stolen from by someone else.  Do two wrongs make a right?  This might be a philosophical question each one has to answer for himself.  Nobody owns my free will, but on the other hand, I have to take responsibility for my personal actions.  I'm willing to do that, but are "they"?

--Lee

@BigM
There are a few legal terms which cover this topic, one is "Intent" another is "Consideration". The intent of the power company is to provide a service and deliver goods(energy), however they do not intend to radiate EM energy. The energy radiating from the power lines is an unwanted consequence of the transfer of energy from one place to another. We can consider it in the same light as a leaky water main, if the city water main is unintentionally leaking water all over your property then are you "personally" stealing it, lol. Should the city sue you for theft of water or charge you for something you do not want and have never asked for?. This legal issue has a truck load of precedence regarding intent, that is nobody asked the power company to pollute our spaces with EM energy--Nobody.
The other legal term is consideration, which could simply be considered something of value. Here is a definition:

QuoteAn exchange of "consideration" whether it be financial or of another sort between the parties to a contractual arrangement is crucial for the agreement to be legally enforceable.

The issue here is that I have only agreed to purchase electrical energy(goods) from the power company through the conductors to my property but I have never asked the power company to pollute my space with EM energy. There is no contract anywhere nor any agreement which states I have requested this in any shape or form therefore there is no consideration. A power company cannot take you to court for theft of energy anymore than a radio station can. The only way a power company could win this case is by buying the best lawyers, buying the judge and jury and circumventing justice because they have no case. Simply winning a case does not always mean justice has been served which I am sure everyone can understand.
I should mention this applies only to antenna systems with no physical connection to the power lines which are far removed from the power lines, that is not right next to them. As well all the articles you posted do not apply as they are about purposely stealing electrical energy through conduction or close proximity induction and of course it is illegal. This is where "Intent" comes into play, if you think or feel you are stealing energy then you very well may be but if you intend to utilize waste energy which may fall under the heading "broadcast power" then this is perfectly acceptable, let your conscience be your guide.
Regards
AC

@allcanadian,

The validity of most of your arguments in Post #14 occurred after I posted my last post.  I agree with what you said.  Distant wires need to be very long because they are distant from power sources.  Cosmic radio waves and radio transmissions bouncing off the inner ionosphere from across the continent cannot be controlled by the power companie(s).  That isn't their power.

And you're correct, the examples I cited were obvious attempts to steal power.  And, as I may have tried to imply, justice is relative when greedy businessmen own the court system(s).

I do like your analysis in regard to "leaking" power lines that no one asks for.  But, there's no justice when a 'little guy' wins a court case and then has an "accident" or his financial affairs are dealt a deliberate dose of computer-hacked bank account withdrawals that can't be traced.  I've heard a rumor that it's possible for a smart programmer to do this.  You implication is accurate, if that's what you said.

I've always tried to follow the law because everyone is looking for dishonesty, even me.  As it was written, "There is no good man, no not one."
                                                                                                                                                                                       --King David in the Psalm of David       

--Lee

If you effectively do a transformer coupling to a power line then you are drawing power from the power line and you are stealing it.  I was not making reference to bypassing electrical meters.

If you are far away from a power line then you are in Paul Lowrence territory and if you can pick up a hundredth of a milliwatt then more power to you.

Allcanadian is implicitly advocating a form of anarchy and doesn't seem to believe in doing things for the "collective."  It makes me think of a theme that bubbles up now and again with respect to cell phones.  Extensive studies show no correlation with brain cancer but if you want to you can cherry pick some data that points in this direction.

So, supposing that you can conclusively prove that cell phones increase the brain cancer rate by five per million.  Does that mean that we should ban all cell phones?  The answer is no, because you are forgetting to factor in all the lives that are saved because of cell phones.

We are where we are with respect to how we consume energy.  Our per capita energy consumption is very high.  Even if you are "off the grid" you are actually still on the grid because you still have to eat and wear clothes and put a roof over you head.  You can't forget that the ultimate fruition for all of the industrial infrastructure around us to allow you to kick back and watch the game on Saturday afternoon and have pizza and beer.  Whether you like it or not, you are "the industry" and "the industry" is you.  You are just as responsible for the BP blowout as BP is, because BP is you.

MileHigh

now about charging a capacitor or battery...any ideas?

Hello all,

@Grumpy

you really dont know it or youre just joking??

Im asking because I know that youre really clever with very good posts..... an intelligent man.

Otto

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.28, 04:33:13
now about charging a capacitor or battery...any ideas?

Not sure if these will all work with a battery but, a capacitor? Sure.

1. apply a voltage gradient across the terminals of the capacitor
Immerse the capacitor in an electric field then:
2. rotate the dielectric
3. stretch the dielectric
4. compress the dielectric
5. change the distance between plates
6. change the area between plates
7. rotate plates in opposite directions

'Immerse' is only useful if you wish to make a greater difference in dielectric charge. Regardless of your material location and potentials used, your dielectric is always in a charge field, and a magnetic field.
There are other methods but they depend upon knowing exactly where the islands of charges are in/on the dielectric.

I wouldn't suggest you perform all of the above on a battery  ;D

>>Edit...

Relative movement, distance, mass, velocity and acceleration are key.

Don't forget the root 'di' means 'across' in most Latin rooted languages  :) 

Quote from: otto on 2010.07.28, 06:09:59
Hello all,

@Grumpy

you really dont know it or youre just joking??

Im asking because I know that youre really clever with very good posts..... an intelligent man.

Otto

I really DO know.  Apparently no one else does, or they know and are not responding. 

Many people "think" they know, but they only know very little, or they know nothing at all, but they "talk the talk" and sell worthless products, books, and videos.  There are others that know and want to make sure that no one else does.  If you can not explain it so that others understand it then you probably do not really know.  I think Spherics, Sauron, Sparks, and SM know.   I don't think anyone associated with Chava knows.  Erfinder should know by now.

If you can charge a capacitor or battery with RE then you should have figured out the rest of the details within a few years.  If you can not move past this point then you have missed something.

@BEP
Manipulation of the dielectric requires "work".   How would you keep the dielectric continuously polarized without moving it?

Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2010.07.27, 23:10:25

That's a new one on me.  Never heard of 'rotating' a capacitor to charge it.  Is there some 'Web reference or other source of info on this?

--Lee

Chris Carson created an electrostatic equivalent of the N-Machine, which consisted of a 1000pf variable capacitor that was spun by a 10,000 rpm motor.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1631-peter-whatever-happened-eric-p-dollard.html#post73792

Pictures follow the above post.

Quote from: duff on 2010.07.28, 13:46:12
Chris Carson created an electrostatic equivalent of the N-Machine, which consisted of a 1000pf variable capacitor that was spun by a 10,000 rpm motor.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1631-peter-whatever-happened-eric-p-dollard.html#post73792
Pictures follow the above post.

Okay, very good.  Now that I've seen the concept in pictures (Post Reply #24 in the EnergeticForum thread above), I have an idea of how the system works.  Don Smith had a similar system in his research paper elsewhere on the OUR site.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2.0




Also, Pg. 10 of this reference, to be precise:

http://www.free-energy-info.com/Smith.pdf    (105pp .PDF , may take awhile to load on a slow computer.)

I agree with the basic concept.  I'm thinking more along the lines of a resonant tower coil arrangement; also set forth by Smith.

--Lee

I am trying to find a legitimate reference that states Tesla charged batteries with "radiant electricity".  I'd settle for a reference where Eric Dollard says that you can charge a battery.  I know that Dollard charges a capacitor in one of his videos, but not a battery.

The reason that I am looking for this is to see how they did it.  I know of a direct means and and indirect means and I have never seen the indirect means applied by anyone.  By "indirect means", I mean you make the charges in the battery do what you want them to do without pulsing it or driving a current through it (this includes charging with cold current).

No "hearsay" please.  We have enough of that.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.29, 00:31:16
...By "indirect means", I mean you make the charges in the battery do what you want them to do without pulsing it or driving a current through it (this includes charging with cold current).
No "hearsay" please.  We have enough of that.

Well, I don't have practical (read:"risky high voltage") experience, but would the Tesla hairpin circuit do the job?  Assuming high voltage was stepped down to something that the batterie(s) could handle, that is.

http://www.transformacomm.com/en/tech/tesla-hairpin-circuit.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+hairpin+circuit&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=SyH&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&prmd=vdf&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=2c9QTPuPM4WjcZzI7K4H&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CC8QqwQwAw

This would be radiant energy coming off the capacitors in high voltage, and, it's said to be different than ordinary electricity.  However, one should be able to charge batteries with it, inasmuch as I know now.

Does this help?

REEDIT:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=71.0

--Lee

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.07.28, 03:27:53
If you effectively do a transformer coupling to a power line then you are drawing power from the power line and you are stealing it.  I was not making reference to bypassing electrical meters.

Okay, then, what about telling the power companies to deliver power through shielded co-ax cables, thus eliminating the legally questionable opinion they take that their regularly radiating 50/60 Hz power into the environment is inconsequential?  Placing a wire near the power mains line(s) is illegal?  If they deliberately shield the line, that's effectively impossible.

(Regardless of the cost to them!), I honestly believe their claim to sole right to demand payment for power they provide would be legally sound if they grounded the emanations, thus forcing thieves to do something like strip the insulation (obvious tampering and risky as well) or bypass the electric meter (just as illegal, I agree).

---Lee

The Big:

Shielding for power is pie-in-the-sky.  There is almost no emanated radiation and we have been living in it for 100 years.  Sometimes you have to defer to the expertize of others.  Or play with microwave equations and see how they work at ultra low frequencies to get an idea of the order of magnitude of the radiation.  I think the overall argument about domestic power line pollution is misplaced, it's an argument for the sake of an argument.

Then there is the argument about benefits vs. harm, just like for cell phones and pesticides and a myriad of other things.  I like my hot shower in the morning.

Going back to charging capacitors with "radiant electricity," can anyone cite an example?  I mean not the "classic" example where a person puts an antenna in their attic and after 24 hours a 10 uF capacitor gets charged to 1.3 volts, or whatever.

In my opinion all of those "suitcase systems" and associated YouTube clips are fake.  You have to keep in mind that coils and capacitors are energy storage systems.  So they are waiting for a source of "juice" before they do anything.  Same thing for resonance, it's just an inductive component and a capacitive component that are sloshing stored energy back and forth.  You see increased amplitude at resonance, but resonance in an of itself is not a source of energy.

Anyway, I am just one voice that will get drowned out!  lol

MileHigh

What is a capacitor?  Two conductors surrounded by dielectric material.

Depending on the flavor you like, energy is stored in the dielectric via polarization of the molecules or stored as charges on the surfaces of the conductors.

WW pointed out several interesting ways to alter the energy stored in the capacitor by altering the dielectric or plate charge.

So, to charge a capacitor you have to polarize the dielectric or change the charge of the plates.

If you have seen Dollard's video, a light bulb emitting the radiant force attracts a piece of copper in his hand.  This is a macroscopic effect on matter because the copper is free to move.  Fix the copper so it can not move and the force will effect the free electrons of the copper or induce a polarization current in an insulator.

Polarization current is a broad term that includes displacement current, in case you never heard of it.  Capacitors do not work without it, like it or not.

The simple method is to place the cap in the field.  Whether it charges by electrons in the leads, or polarization of the dielectric, or both, no one has ever stated publicly.  No one has ever stated whether orientation makes a difference or if other fields have any effect. 

Without the radiant force, the the cap doesn't charge, so you have to have that first.

@milehigh

QuoteShielding for power is pie-in-the-sky.  There is almost no emanated radiation and we have been living in it for 100 years.  Sometimes you have to defer to the expertize of others.  Or play with microwave equations and see how they work at ultra low frequencies to get an idea of the order of magnitude of the radiation.  I think the overall argument about domestic power line pollution is misplaced, it's an argument for the sake of an argument.

Have you ever heard the saying-- a picture is worth a thousand words?--http://www.stopgeek.com/richard-boxs-light-field.html
This is another good site---http://www.dirtyelectricity.org/health-issues.shtml  and ---http://www.dirtyelectricity.ca/

Milehigh you seem like a pretty smart guy but to be honest many of your comments are just silly, Tesla documented the fact that power lines radiate energy and that many forms of radiation can be harmful over 100 years ago. As well what you are implying goes against everything that modern science stands for, you are implying that an "action" on a conductor can have no "reaction" in the surrounding space. I have built many very sensitive solid state electrometers for my research and I have studied this phenomena in depth, from my practical experience I can tell you that you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Regards
AC

@Grumpy

QuoteIf you have seen Dollard's video, a light bulb emitting the radiant force attracts a piece of copper in his hand.  This is a macroscopic effect on matter because the copper is free to move.  Fix the copper so it can not move and the force will effect the free electrons of the copper or induce a polarization current in an insulator.

Polarization current is a broad term that includes displacement current, in case you never heard of it.  Capacitors do not work without it, like it or not.

It's good to see your posts again, when I think of people I would like to have a rational conversation with regarding a topic almost nobody understands -- you are in the top 5, lol. We don't have to turn this technology into some voodoo mystical BS as some experts would have us believe, this is science and it is nice to see others such as yourself keep the debate based on observable facts as well as theory.
I have also seen similar effects whereby a coil or simply a conductor can apply forces to both free conductors and dielectrics. Many times it is these little effects we cannot see and can hardly measure that seem the most peculiar. I did one simple experiment I used a IRFP460 mosfet attached to a 12v battery with a 12v light in series. The gate was left open,when I touch the gate with my finger the light comes on because our body naturally carries a positive charge. Now I can attach a 10 foot wire to the gate and can still turn it on with a simple touch of my finger or I can touch one finger of one hand to the wire turning the light on and touch the negative terminal of a completely separate battery with the other finger and turn the light off. It is all these little things whose actions are obvious after the fact but never apparent at the time that we seem to be missing. That is, I know exactly why this experiment works it is simply electrical surface charges but before this experiment it had never really sunk home that by simply touching one finger to one terminal of a 12v battery my entire bodies surface charge has been modified. I know this because my other finger touching a wire attached to the mosfet gate turned the 12v light off. Can you imagine that, all these so-called experts using high power mosfet drivers to switch their circuits when all you need to do is touch the gate conductor to a "single" terminal of a battery to turn it on or off, lol. I wonder how much energy this requires considering only one battery terminal is utilized? To be honest I am starting to think all these so-called experts with all their credentials have completely forgotten the basics of science, I am glad there are still some common sense experimenters such as yourself around to show others the way.
Regards
AC

Hello all,

@Grumpy

I had no doubt that you know it!!!

All,

if you "play" with charging a battery then, if you can, open the cells, if you use a 12V car battery, because ......it can be a little bit dangerous!!

@AC

there are a lot of "surprises" when you connect a MOSFET in a "wrong" way. In an "unusual" way.

Otto

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.28, 13:12:33
@BEP
Manipulation of the dielectric requires "work".   How would you keep the dielectric continuously polarized without moving it?

I haven't been able to devise a set of experiments to answer that question. Obviously, my theories of how this all works are not complete, maybe completely off.

What I do know is polarization of this, or these, media is not polar, in the sense of having two distinct and different ends. The closest fit to the evidence is polarization involves curvature, possibly circular, spherical, helical, or all the above.

Does it require 'work' to get it going? I would say, yes, but only if you are trying to change the shape, direction or handedness it has already.
As far as keeping it polarized... I am starting to suspect we already have two excellent examples - magnets & electrets. I just obtained a handful of 70's vintage .05 mfd 3kV "Plastic" caps produced with 'accidental' ferroelectric properties. No matter how many times I short them, they always 'recover' to the previous charge within seconds.

The tech notes on the box (dated in 76) says the caps were faulty from the supplier and the stored charge caused circuit failure when used. They were jumped when I received them.

So, keeping a charge? My best guess is a static force is more like a soliton than anything else. Once it is going, your usage is more like riding a wave than draining a pond.

Smoke rings and plasma balls? My feet are on the ground. I just don't have a good understanding of it all, yet.

I'm still hoping to join your efforts, this weekend.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.07.29, 11:36:37
I'm still hoping to join your efforts, this weekend.

Hopefully more will get off the keyboard and back to the bench along with us.  Talking and reading only get you so far.  Eventually, you have to put into practice or just forget about it.

I think we have all misinterpreted hints given by the handful that are giving them, and this has wasted a lot fo time.  It doesn't help matters that there are so many shysters out there telling you this and that as if it were fact when it is a far from fact as possible.  Then others read too much into what little fact is available - like attributing so many things to Tesla that he never said or did.   Apparently, the only ones you can trust are silenced.  LOL!  How ironic!

I have not been able to find a single valid reference to Nikola Tesla charging batteries with radiant electricity by any method.  Nor have I been able to find a valid reference to Tesla using low voltage to produce radiant electicity.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.29, 13:53:08
Hopefully more will get off the keyboard and back to the bench along with us.  Talking and reading only get you so far.  Eventually, you have to put into practice or just forget about it.

Yes. I haven't stopped in much because it is too depressing when you have an idea with 1500 miles between you and your bench.

Quote
I have not been able to find a single valid reference to Nikola Tesla charging batteries with radiant electricity by any method.  Nor have I been able to find a valid reference to Tesla using low voltage to produce radiant electicity.

Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away from the computer. When I see folks using terms like 'a coil with high self induction and low resistance' or 'high frequency and high speed' while discussing DC or AC or 'zero pf and the magic is in the KVARS'. I wonder if the speaker understands what each require. If they do, they probably already have the answers. But, they don't. The majority are simple idiots, as I'm sure I am in their eyes.

My bosses have a nasty habit of jerking me from the bench. I may just turn the phone and email off this weekend.

Allcanadian:

Some people forget that science and technology have advanced a lot since Tesla's days.  Tesla could only have had an inkling about what was going on because the tools to make the measurements did not exist at the time.  The main reason almost nothing Tesla experimented with is around now is because better technologies have been developed in the 70 years since he passed away.  There was nothing available to measure the power distribution in the frequency spectrum in his time.

I'm not convinced about harmful effects.  There are thousands of alarmist web sites out there for almost anything.

I suffered through two microwaves courses so I have an idea.  There are very few people in the overall online "free energy" virtual world that really know their stuff.  I know enough to be able to qualify people out there.  For example, Poynt99 really knows his stuff.

QuoteI have built many very sensitive solid state electrometers for my research and I have studied this phenomena in depth, from my practical experience I can tell you that you have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Perhaps one day you will discuss some of your work and we can discover who knows what.

MileHigh

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.07.29, 22:07:59
Yes. I haven't stopped in much because it is too depressing when you have an idea with 1500 miles between you and your bench.

Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away from the computer. When I see folks using terms like 'a coil with high self induction and low resistance' or 'high frequency and high speed' while discussing DC or AC or 'zero pf and the magic is in the KVARS'. I wonder if the speaker understands what each require. If they do, they probably already have the answers. But, they don't. The majority are simple idiots, as I'm sure I am in their eyes.

My bosses have a nasty habit of jerking me from the bench. I may just turn the phone and email off this weekend.

I write down all sorts of little notes and sketches when I can't get to the bench.  Then I can really haul arse when I do get some time.  Sometimes you think of really good stuff when you least expect it and then forget it when you have time to do something with it, so write them down.

As for "effects" from EM fields, there are good and bad just like with everything else.  Electrostatic fields can be used to enhance the growth of plants or kill the plants.  Tesla mentioned the ill effects of x-rays and also how he avoided them.  As far as I know he did not suffer from cancer like the Currie's did.

Any thoughts out there on charging caps and batteries with RE?

Hello all,

@Grumpy

maybe first to wright here what radiated energy, oh, I meant, radiant energy is?? For members who dont know it.

Otto

@grumpy, if you take a ceramic disk capacitor and put both its legs into the differential input of a high gain dual opamp stage then you can literally hear whats going on charge wise between the cap plates. make the opamps power from 2xPP3 cells. put the whole lot in a grounded metal box and pass the output signal through a bnc.

then with earphones and small audio amp you can hear the caps noise. EEs call this 1/f noise and some speculate that it is a micro effect at the quantum level within the dielectric. However my experiments with two such units seperated by a couple of meters and both into a scope showed me alot of common mode signals in all frequency ranges (mHz to MHz).

note that the circuit is so sensitive that microphonics are also present in the cap, if you tap the bench then as the dielectric compresses and expands with the passing shock wave you will hear it.

the opamp inputs are very high impedence but nonetheless some leakage occurs across the receiving cap, this prevents DC buildup in the cap over a long time. i suppose the caps dielectric also leaks a little too. so in my experiments i never saw dc buildup. but the slower mHz signals look like DC for a while.

If you have a radiant generator within the vicinity then you will hear or see strong signals of the radiant event. with a radiant TX and RX it should be possible to make a superluminal communication device... subspace communicator anyone?

Back to your original question, how to best charge a cap from RE? Well somehow the radiant energy needs lensing into the caps dielectric, i think a gravity lense would work but dont know how to make one in a small package. perhaps some other aetheric engineering is needed to funnel the RE into the right spot.

Quote from: otto on 2010.07.30, 06:07:21
Hello all,

@Grumpy

maybe first to wright here what radiated energy, oh, I meant, radiant energy is?? For members who dont know it.

Otto

Radiant force is just a force, much like gravity.

Radiant electricity is a charging effect produced by this force, but is this an effect of the force by itself, or it's interaction with something else?  RE is not "negative electricity", or "cold current".  RE is not a current itself, so how can it induce a charge in a capacitor or charge a battery?


Fraser,  Good idea using op amps to hear what's going on.

G,

Made it home. The bench is dusty but I'm sure I have what I need, except a known working schematic, of course  ;D

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.07.30, 23:19:36
G,

Made it home. The bench is dusty but I'm sure I have what I need, except a known working schematic, of course  ;D

All you need is the basic principles and time to put it together.

Grumpy

I built a few HV caps and charged one up. I disassembled it and handled each of the components, measuring for apparent surface charges to find nothing really unusual. Then re-assembled it and the full charge from prior to disassembly was still there. Obviously it would seem that the charge was stored in the dielectric, since I also tried electrodes from an uncharged identical capacitor and most of the charge followed the dielectric. However, the amount of charge was quite a bit lower with the uncharged electrodes. This indicated that both the electodes AND the dielectric played a role in charge retention. When I placed the electrodes from the charged cap into an uncharged dielectric, there was barely any charge registering. Have you tried this before?

Bob Boyce

Quote from: Bob Boyce on 2010.09.22, 23:19:46
...Obviously it would seem that the charge was stored in the dielectric...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg)

EDIT: This video blew my mind when I first saw it.

I'm guessing some here may already know this but since I haven't seen it mentioned here I've read that a teflon coated wire antenna can be a much stronger charge collector than most other types of wire. 

That's crazy cool!

It appears there are other views as to what is taking place with the dissectible Leyden jar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar)

Quote
A popular but misleading demonstration with a Leyden jar involves taking one apart after it has been charged and showing that the charge is stored on the dielectric, not the plates. The first documented instance of this demonstration is in a 1749 letter by Benjamin Franklin.  Franklin designed a "dissectible" leyden jar, shown at left, which was widely used in demonstrations. This erroneous belief was taught in schools throughout the 1800s, and is still sometimes encountered.

However this phenomenon is a special effect caused by the high voltage on the Leyden jar. In the dissectible Leyden jar, charge is transferred to the surface of the glass cup by corona discharge when the jar is disassembled; this is the source of the residual charge after the jar is reassembled. Handling the cup while disassembled does not provide enough contact to remove all the surface charge. Soda glass is hygroscopic and forms a partially conductive coating on its surface, which holds the charge. Addenbrook (1922) found that in a dissectible jar made of paraffin, or glass baked to remove moisture, the charge remained on the metal plates. Zeleny (1944) confirmed these results and observed the corona charge transfer.[9] In capacitors generally, the charge is not stored in the dielectric, but on the inside surfaces of the plates, as can be seen from the fact that capacitors can function with a vacuum between their plates.

Yes, good quote  ;) ;)

.99

Incredible...

Quote from: Rosphere on 2010.09.23, 01:10:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg)

EDIT: This video blew my mind when I first saw it.

Quote from: duff on 2010.09.24, 11:38:14
It appears there are other views as to what is taking place with the dissectible Leyden jar

I suppose it is best to let sleeping dogs lie and let charged plates lie near one another.  The act of separating the plates changes the nature of the capacitor itself.

Still, it is interesting.  Some insulator materials 'hold' the charge during plate separation, others do not.  I bet polar-polymers would take the charge and non-polar would not,... or maybe just the opposite.  I wonder how the Farad rating would change with the material, all other things being equal.

Thanks for posting the other views.  :)

"In capacitors generally, the charge is not stored in the dielectric, but on the inside surfaces of the plates, as can be seen from the fact that capacitors can function with a vacuum between their plates."

I wonder if that statement was made by the same folks that said radio signals from space are all faked.

The mistake being made by almost all is thinking there is no dielectric in a vacuum capacitor.

If charge is stored on the plates why doesn't shorting the plates with the 'dielectric' removed discharge the 'capacitor'? The coronal charge idea doesn't fly. If that was true only half of the charge would transfer.

Where is the experiment where the plates were swapped with other ones and the one where the capacitor parts were all moved and reassembled elsewhere?


Aw shucks! I guess we gotta go with it. After all, Wiki says so.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.09.24, 22:42:00
The mistake being made by almost all is thinking there is no dielectric in a vacuum capacitor.

IMO, there is no dielectric in a vacuum capacitor, just as there is no core in a vacuum core inductor.

Quote
If charge is stored on the plates why doesn't shorting the plates with the 'dielectric' removed discharge the 'capacitor'?

Easy enough to test with a more practical home made capacitor. It probably will remove the charge.

.99

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.09.24, 23:43:55
IMO, there is no dielectric in a vacuum capacitor, just as there is no core in a vacuum core inductor.

Ok. This old argument may be more due to the limitation of the words than anything else. I suppose if you believe the charge is shifted from the plates to the dielectric when the plates are removed then admitting vacuum to be a dielectric would be a problem.

I don't have a problem with vacuum as a dielectric because it meets the definition of a dielectric ... when it is in between capacitor plates  ;)

IMO, charge is a property of space and only of space.

As for the coreless inductor.... it has a core.... a hollow core  :D

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.09.25, 00:28:56
I don't have a problem with vacuum as a dielectric because it meets the definition of a dielectric ... when it is in between capacitor plates  ;)

What is your definition of a dielectric?

.99

Interesting addition to the discussion...

Excerpt from "Introduction to DIELECTRICITY AND CAPACITANCE by Eric Dollard"

Quote
"CAPACITANCE
The phenomena of capacitance is a type of electrical energy storage in the form of a field in an enclosed space. This space is typically bounded by two parallel metallic plates or two metallic foils on an intervening insulator or dielectric. A nearly infinite variety of more complex structures can exhibit capacity, as long as a difference in electric potential exists between various areas of the structure. The oscillating coil represents one possibility as to a capacitor of more complex form, and will be presented here.

CAPACITANCE INADEQUATELY EXPLAINED
The perception of capacitance as used today is wholly inadequate for the proper understanding of this effect. Steinmetz mentions this in his introductory book Electric Discharges, Waves and Impulses. To quote, "Unfortunately, to large extent in dealing with dielectric fields the prehistoric conception of the electrostatic charge (electron) on the conductor still exists, and by its use destroys the analogy between the two components of the electric field, the magnetic and the dielectric, and makes the consideration of dielectric fields unnecessarily complicated."

LINES OF FORCE AS REPRESENTATION OF DIELECTRICITY
Steinmetz continues, "There is obviously no more sense in thinking of the capacity current as current which charges the conductor with a quantity of electricity, than there is of speaking of the inductance voltage as charging the conductor with a quantity of magnetism. But the latter conception, together with the notion of a quantity of magnetism, etc., has vanished since Faraday's representation of the magnetic field by lines of force."

THE LAWS OF LINES OF FORCE
All the lines of magnetic force are closed upon themselves, all dielectric lines of force terminate on conductors, but may form closed loops in electromagnetic radiation. These represent the basic laws of lines of force. It can be seen from these laws that any line of force cannot just end in space."

:P

Quote from: tao on 2010.09.25, 00:49:21
Interesting addition to the discussion...

Excerpt from "Introduction to DIELECTRICITY AND CAPACITANCE by Eric Dollard"

:P

Kinda like the non-existent magnetic field lines? Since those are now considered to break the rules during magnetic reconnection I wonder when we will find electric field lines that temporarily connect .... and what happens when they do?

The most basic definition of a dielectric? A very poor or non-conductor of electricity.  :o A space holder  :D

Electric is to magnetic like dielectric is to what?

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.09.25, 01:30:00

The most basic definition of a dielectric? A very poor or non-conductor of electricity.  :o A space holder  :D

And the other half of the definition is that it is able to be polarized in an electric field.

Quote
Electric is to magnetic like dielectric is to what?

I think we just covered that one in reply#50 ;)

.99

Ah... So you consider dielectric as not required in the construction of a capacitor.

The 'other half' of the definition is also met by vacuum unless, you don't think electric field lines connect the two plates of a charged capacitor with only vacuum between the plates.

Reply #50?

Must be the long day.... I don't see the relationship.

Then there is polarization current and displacement current which require a dielectric such as air or vacuum or other insulators.  Before anyone says it doesn't exists - Roentgen already proved that these currents are real.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010.09.25, 02:14:13
Ah... So you consider dielectric as not required in the construction of a capacitor.

Correct. In a perfect vacuum there are no atoms between the plates to polarize, yet the capacitor still functions as a capacitor. Hence in this case (as per the definition), there is no dielectric present in the capacitor.

Quote
The 'other half' of the definition is also met by vacuum unless, you don't think electric field lines connect the two plates of a charged capacitor with only vacuum between the plates.

The field lines still connect between the plates of a vacuum capacitor, but this is not due to the presence of a dielectric. "Vacuum" can not meet the second half of the definition of what a dielectric is, because a perfect vacuum contains no atoms to polarize.

Quote
Reply #50?

Must be the long day.... I don't see the relationship.

:'(

.99

Don't worry. I wasn't brain dead. The whole day was un-mangling computer code. More like brain starvation  :D

If the Radiant Energy is already in a form which is compatible
with battery charging or capacitor charging, then it may be
applied directly by means of suitable isolation.

If not, then the Radiant Energy must first be converted to a form
which is compatible with "charging" those devices.

It may be multiplied, stored, then pulsed through an isolating
component into the desired receptacle as charge.  Or
"transformed" if need be.

Radiant Energy Pulses are very effective for desulfating and
equalizing lead acid batteries.

Dumped:

QuoteRadiant Energy Pulses are very effective for desulfating and
equalizing lead acid batteries.

Well, if you read my Bedini 10-coiler thread you might get a "shock" about your perception of what "radiant energy pulses" are.  When a capacitor discharges would you call that radiant energy?  For the sake of argument I'll assume that your answer would be no.  When you discharge a coil I'll assume that your answer would be yes.  A capacitor and a coil are very similar devices, and it's not "radiant energy" when the coil discharges.  It's just normal electrical energy, that typically comes from a battery.  It's doesn't get a possible boost from the vacuum.

MileHigh

There is much controversy regarding the collection of "Radiant Energy."

The source of Radiant Energy is considered by some to be the earth's
atmospheric electrical charge which is capable of being "tapped into."

Others consider it any form of electromagnetic energy which actually
does radiate/propagate into space.

My own research and experiences have led me to believe that any
sudden, intense and very brief release of electrical energy is capable
of assuming Radiant properties.  Disruptive Capacitive Discharge and
Inductive Kickback Discharge are two sources which are easily
demonstrated.

Extracting energy from the "vacuum" seems to be possible by means
of certain devices which have been constructed with help from living
beings of greater intelligence than humankind.  I have seen such
devices but am unable to imagine how they may perform the extraction.

Nikola Tesla was clearly a man far ahead of his time.  Could he have
been influenced by those highly intelligent beings?

Others too?

Bedini's work has a certain interest to it but it seems lacking.  Perhaps
he is too much a businessman and salesman.

Dumped:

QuoteMy own research and experiences have led me to believe that any
sudden, intense and very brief release of electrical energy is capable
of assuming Radiant properties.  Disruptive Capacitive Discharge and
Inductive Kickback Discharge are two sources which are easily
demonstrated.

Those discharges are simply properties of capacitors and inductors.  The source of energy is typically a battery like I mentioned.  You can easily do the analysis and the measurements to prove all of this.  Both phenomena a under unity phenomena.

There are bench tests that can be done where you measure the average power you put into a coil and measure the average power you are getting back from the inductive kickback discharges and you will notice that the output power is always less than the input power.

MileHigh

Yes, some sort of resonance is needed to enable magnification.

The radiant impulses may then serve to shock excite an energy
buildup which can be added to by some external reservoir.

Some have found a certain type of resonance to exist within the
lead acid battery.  Timing of the pulse frequency and duration is
critical.

Quote from: Dumped on 2010.12.08, 07:36:15
Yes, some sort of resonance is needed to enable magnification.

The radiant impulses may then serve to shock excite an energy
buildup which can be added to by some external reservoir.

Some have found a certain type of resonance to exist within the
lead acid battery.  Timing of the pulse frequency and duration is
critical.

Dumped:

I am going to comment just one more time here as an example for you to think about some of the ideas that have been presented to you over the years.  I can see how you are "with the program" in terms of the information you can find online in the free energy scene.

Resonance will indeed "magnify" the voltages and currents that you might observe in a circuit.  However, it's not really and truly magnification, what's really going on is that the resonant system is accumulating and storing some sort of a periodic excitation signal so that you see what appears to be magnification.  It really the accumulation of small amounts of energy so that the total stored (and resonating) amount of energy looks quite large.  So the "radiant impulses" that you are talking about are the individual small amounts of energy and there is no "external reservoir" that's "adding" energy to the system.  The system itself is a reservoir that stores the individual spikes and adds them up.

The business about the battery having some kind of resonance is also not true.  Just look at a lead-acid battery, it's some metal plates in an acid bath.  There is nothing in that system to resonate, right down to the molecular level.  If you think about all the times you have read that I bet you you were never told what the resonant frequency was or what specifically was resonating.  It's a myth.

You know that on other free energy sites just saying what I said above would get me in "trouble."  This site is different and is open to differing opinions as long as we try to keep things civil.

I can assure you that I am not going to be "following" you to rebut your points.  I just rebutted your last two postings as an exercise, something for you to think about and perhaps it will induce you to question some of the ideas you you are expressing.

MileHigh

The resonance within the lead acid battery is a type of
electrochemical response.  Electrochemistry is a
fascinating field and little understood by most experimenters.

Tesla's excess energy production was the result of tapping
into the solar generated atmospheric charge.  Very high
voltage at an elevated location is necessary to establish
ionized conduction paths to the great amount of electrical
energy which can be utilized to "pump" a resonance.

Free Energy or Over-Unity is not magic.  There are always
explanations for whatever anomalous phenomenon is
observed.

There are, however, advanced technologies which we do
not understand.  More of those will be publicly revealed
in the coming years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQqFLObJto

I might have missed it, but I don't see that "radiant electricity" has been defined in this thread.

If you could reproduce the events that cause current to flow by a means that requires less energy than you deliver to the battery, then you could essentially charge a battery for "free".

Tesla was not the first to discover how to collect free
energy from the atmosphere - others have as well.

Art Bell has un-intentionally built a rather efficient array
which collects considerable energy.  He has yet to put
the energy to any useful work.

An "atmospheric powered" battery charger is actually
quite easily fabricated with high voltage switching devices.

There is abundant free energy all over the earth.

Radiant Energy?  We receive much of that from the sun also.


The "glow" of the electrolytic rectifier. (http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2001-11-16/chem/column.html)

Quote from: Dumped on 2010.12.10, 07:37:58

An "atmospheric powered" battery charger is actually
quite easily fabricated with high voltage switching

Where have you seen this?  I've only known batteries to go flat when they're exposed to the atmosphere. 

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.07.27, 17:43:21
Interesting work.  I'm looking for examples that anyone can do and experimental data to support the principle. ...

I'm doing something in the Bench section as free time and enough money permits.  Does the following help?
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=816.0

I live in an apartment, so I don't have the freedom that a house can give, but I'm doing what I can.

--Lee

I've concluded that there are several force vectors working together during the RE event, and that the charges are already there, we just have to make them separate.

I equate the dieletric charge of a capacitor to be equally as useful a magnetic bias only the magnet doesnt run down as fast. This being said any activity can be read from the dielectric. The force, vectors, and fields all have their terms of activity. I have three references to using a bias. The resonant field can be looked at in similar fashion although i have not seen the usage of activity of a resonant field mentioned in standard terms.
Is the an understandable statement?

    Gk-, yes I get what your getting at, as both types of charges can be are equally useful, and can possibly even work together to obtain more output.  No matter where on the electromagnet, and/or non-electromagnetic scale it comes from.
   I think that in order to be able to utilize and tap the Aether streams, the device usually does so by a process of separation of the charges that are found in the surrounding air.  The point being that if an open system is used to accomplish the above tapping, or a close system is used,  although it all comes from the same source originally, but the open system does not limit or block the flow, as the closed one does.  Ok this is all known... but, up to now its been a degree of how to tap this available stream of constant energy passing right by us, mostly unnoticed, even unmeasurable as yet, without closing the circuit.
   

  I have been charging both capacitors and batteries with my cement beach sand power cells.  They can be placed in series to get the needed voltage,  Both lead-acid batteries, as well as any capacitor that I've connect to them take the charges well.  I don't know, if this energy is coming from the Aether through a galvanic or non galvanic source, or what it is, but it is a constant output.  It acts like electricity, and can charge most anything connect to it, as well asthe cells taking in and storing (to a lesser degree) additional charge from solar panels, etz...

Nickz,
yesterday 2 pieces of knowledge came at me from different arenas that fit.  So I put them togther.
The Sun's output pounds the Van Allens belts and the ionosphere(a resonant cavity, but full of potential). I realized Tesla was talking about 'reading' this.
Well I saw the space between the Earth and the ionosphere as a bell of sorts and this translated directly to a capacitor's charge, an LC resonant field, a magnetic field and standing waves.
These things just happen at different places but the forces and vectors are the same. When under pressure this is a kinetic volume whether atmospheric, flux density, fluidic or potential. Probably not new but I am looking at the realm for similar processes that fit the model.

In regards to your sand cells:
If this charge relates to power extraction and not just the potential that shows up as radiant energy then you got something.
This equates to the reader coil of Tesla magnifying transmitter.

   The cement cells can't be connected in parallel, although they will do fine in series. This is one of the reasons I'm looking into trying the Mg/Carbon cell that Lasersaber, Lidmotor, and others are working on now.  Their Mg/Carbon cells output 1 to 2 amps each.  Not mA.  And are a galvanic type of cell, that does not need to be charged, or recharged, unlike any other conventional galvanic batteries do. They are the strongest made so far.  And I'm hoping that they will connect in parallel to further increase the voltage.  I believe that they do. 
Lasersabers latest cell made just last week, is only 3/4" by 8" in size or so,  with a permanent output of 1.7 volts, and 1 amp.  His bigger cells give 1.5 to 2 amps each.  I don't remember all the details, but something like that. 
It wouldn't take too much space to make a battery pack of those cells and get 110 volts and a bunch of amps as well.  The main problem is the oxidation factor with those type cells but, they are trying to control or eliminate it,
so far it appears to be working, to a manageable degree.

     @ Grumpy and All:
      The above mentioned cells can and do charge both caps and batteries, at not cost, and do so for a long time,  whether they are electrochemical, galvanic, petrovoltaic, or just normal electric current, who knows. But the prospect of having a sort of power supply (similar to using a solar panel) but using something like these cells that don't need sun, and don't run down either,  is what I'm working on now. 
   The idea of utilizing just voltage, and no current is intriging, if possible.  Especially without draining the source of that potential.  But I have not seen it done, yet.  I have heard talk of it, but not a device, or battery, or power supply of that sort.  Have you???

Quote from: NickZ on 2011.07.22, 05:46:41
...   The idea of utilizing just voltage, and no current is intriging, if possible.  Especially without draining the source of that potential.  But I have not seen it done, yet.  I have heard talk of it, but not a device, or battery, or power supply of that sort.  Have you???

Van de Graaf generator?  Lots of voltage and little current.  As an electrostatic charge, it won't even shock your nerves.
Edmund Scientific sells one for $499.00.  A discharge wand is $79.95 extra.

--Lee

  Yes, thanks, but what I meant was a device that uses only voltage to produce electricity, or power electronics, tools, etz... not just make discharges into the air,  or to light leds, which even they need some current to give maximum intensity.

Quote from: NickZ...what I meant was a device that uses only voltage to produce electricity,
or power electronics, tools, et[z]...     not just make discharges into the air,
or to light leds, which even they need some current to give maximum intensity.

Power which is produced by Voltage alone?

Is such a thing even possible?

Quote from: Dumped on 2011.07.23, 07:12:46
Power which is produced by Voltage alone?

Is such a thing even possible?

Yes,I believe it is perfectly possible with antenna.

  The only thing that I've seen that is made to work by using only voltage and no current are leds, CFL, or florescent tubes.  Has anybody seen anything else that can be run on voltage only?  Is there any advantage?

Quote from: forest on 2011.07.23, 07:32:35
Yes,I believe it is perfectly possible with antenna.

Well, I was going to say, the radiant system of an antenna to a transformer, to a diode, to a battery will give you voltage without a lot of current, especially way outside of a large town with generating power stations mains.  You need a whole lot of co-ax cable as well.
That should give you voltage that'll charge a battery with.

--Lee

Indeed it is possible
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=202.0

Ah just realized big_m already knows about the work i did here.

Quote from: Peterae on 2011.07.23, 21:01:13
Indeed it is possible
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=202.0

Ah just realized big_m already knows about the work i did here.

Yep, you bet.  If I had more time, money and freedom, I would do more work in that area.

--Lee

  So, in that test 13 leds or so were able to light off of a capacitor.  How long does the cap last, or is that a permanent output? He does not mention what the current is doing.
   What I was referring to before was the question of trying to power anything on pure voltage potential, other than Leds, florescent tubes, CFL, etz, that we already know will light from mostly voltage.  What other practical uses are there for just voltage devices?  Can they be used to light our homes, and run our car, or recharge and maintain batteries? Or not?

  What I have find is that when you charge a battery or a capacitor using only voltage,  the voltage will be transfered into the caps or batteries alright, but it won't have the current necessary to do anything, other than to light the above mentioned leds, cfls, etz... 
  Or do Tesla's electric car type projects, using an antenna, do so run on current also.  My feeling is that they do have current also, as it is difficult to have lots of voltage, and absolutely no current.  Maybe even impossible.
   On the other hand what is the difference between lighting a regular incandescent bulb using magnetic current, or lighting the bulb using just voltage? 

NickZ:

You might want to ask some of the others participating in this thread or elsewhere to educate you because your statements don't really make any sense.  I used to do that but have since stopped.

MileHigh

An antenna will intercept Radio Frequency Energy
which is propagating in space and develop both
voltage and current as a consequence.

With small circuits consisting of diodes, a capacitor
and an LED load, Radio Frequency energy can make it
appear as if "magic" is taking place.

Tesla's lectures included many such demonstrations
with evacuated globes and tubes within the near field
of his Radio Frequency generator; and occasionally
with a small electric motor as a load.

Wherever there is light or movement in response to
Radio Frequency stimulation, there must also be
voltage and current; no?

How would it be possible for Voltage alone to accomplish
any work?

  Milehigh:
   Sorry my posts don't make sense to you, they are actually Grumpy questions from a few post back, maybe you can hash it out with him on it.  While I get educated...

  Dumped:
  That is the question.  Is there also any advantage in using just voltage and no or low current as a source, and what would it power?  It may not be possible, but since it was suggested the you can run on voltage only, without draining the source, I thought that that was a worthwhile and interesting subject.
   I'm also not confused when I ask about magnetic current, and its similarities to just voltage.  I may be out in right field,  but...  it might be two aspects of the same thing.  Milehigh maybe you can educate us all.  If you're not too buzy.

Nick, I apologize, perhaps I shouldn't have commented.  There are many others here that might be interested in going over some of the issues with you.  I have stopped doing that.  Since I am here, there is no such thing as being able to make something light up, I think you used a CFL as an example, with voltage only.  Good luck.

  Milehigh:
   No apologies needed.  Sorry to hear that you're not into it anymore.  But, while you're still here, I thank you for your opinion and reply, as I had said it was in answer to Grumpy's question posted a while back. I still think that it has value.

A time-dependent positive electric impulse produces a vector force towards the source.

What if you could reverse Lorentz Force Law (orthogonal force on a charged particle traveling in a magnetic field), apply a force in a magnetic field and induce a current?

    Grumpy:
   Might this be something like what you are thinking about,  and the TPU people as well?
   Lasersaber does it again:
   http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber?ob=5#p/u/3/Cughym4y7Ow

  Or is it just a April Fools Joke.  Doesn't look like it will fly though.

Well he does say he feels a right fool LOL and it was filmed on Aril the 1st

He is very funny  ;D

It should be easy to replicate. The only problem will be when people run the cord up their sleeve. Somebody will shock themselves  :(

He said one could hook a drill or tv or....
I would like to see that before anybody goes down this rabbit hole. One pill will make you smaller the other taller.

Betcha the power strip is filled with NiCd batteries. The LED blinks too. Odd...

Or an even simpler test would be to unplug itself and use in a registered UL fashion, like put the plug in a wall socket and move the lamp or a drill into the other empty recepticles.
He also stated that he would release the specifications in one year in order to escape the MIBs. He would be in Levinworth right now.


Here is my outline of the situation:

             O0
             O0
             O0
             O0
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:-)
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:-)
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:-)

  I'd hate to state an opinion, we may have to leave this one for the in house OU detective, Wattsup.

 Not enough wires!  ;D

Does anyone here have any experience with "radiant electricity"?  If not, then this thread is pointless. 

Darkspeed did some interesting experiments, but have not heard from him in a long time.

Many others talk about it, but the important questions are never answered.

 OMG, The power strip is running in closed loop, that means P(out) / P(in) > 1, he cut straight to the chase!  Boy o boy, this is exciting, I'm on this like a hawk!  You guys are so wrong in assuming he 'faked' it, but he had to say that to get it past the MIBs who censor everything, wow, that's very good thinking!  

I also did an analysis of the audio track and I can see an interesting output waveform that is higher than the hearing range of us humans, and it was because my dog started barking, that I got the idea.  Thank you Tiger, you saved the day!  This waveform, after I filter out the lower frequencies, looks very similar to romerouk's output waveform, complete with even those "flat spots"  that are very mysterious.  I couldn't resist and integrated the waveform to see what the flux looks like and the asymmetry is just so interesting, there are obviously "virtual S-poles" that are wider but ride on a bias, which I've set to zero, since I don't know a priory.  This needs further investigation, absolutely!

I also used VirtualDub to analyze every frame of the video, and there are NO WIRES GOING INTO THE TABLE, had to make sure before wattsup applied his skills.  Also the VOLUME of the power strip enclosure is so small that output of 400 watts would deplete any Batteries in about 7.5 second, so there's no way this is a UPS power strip, anybody who says that should be banned, as to not interfere with this great replication project, the simplest and greatest I have ever seen!  Stefan Hartmen should be alerted about this immediately, this could bring in some serious viewer traffic to the OU website and translate into lots of money for the jack pot, and I'm sure this invention will win it, just need two or three other replicators, who's with me on this?  Professor, this one's right up your alley, I knew I shouldn't have abandoned my "JouleThief" experiments, it's all in the dV/dt and how quickly it rises. The ferrets act like chokes, but more than that, as we learned from the TPU, magnetostriction makes them resonate and I bet you a vortex is created that literally pulls elections from the sky and can charge capacitors and batteries with this obvious form of RADIANT ELECTRICITY.  Wow, my head is spinning again. 

Unsincerely

EM

;D  :D >:( :o 8) >:-) :P

Trouble is to get any real power out to drive a car would require 65KWh which would be 650 of these can you imagine fitting 650 extension sockets in your boot, it wouldn't look good, on this basis i don't think it's viable  >:-)

Wow using a diode, what a novel idea, who would ever have thought of that? Pay no attention to that left hand and it's unusual hold on the strip. The power is in the grip.

Dr. Lirpa Sloof has been around a long time and seems to resurface every now and then. First use of the character by Hugo Gernsback, probably back in the 30's.

Problem is, newbies will eat this up......a waste of bandwidth IMHO.

lololololololol

One of the comments to his video was this.

QUOTE
DR Lipra  Sloof. = Dr April Fools backwards. He even said ,"mark this date", "i feel like such a fool". Pretty clever
weezhum 2 months ago.
UNQUOTE

@EM

It would be good if you could analyze the audio track of Romeros Video 2 and 3 for comparison. @Plengo is still on the wayside. I think he is looking for clues to still support those videos are real but if you did a sound sound analysis (pun intended) maybe it will help him pass the reality barrier into Realsville.

As for @chrisC, based on his recent attack at me on OU, the guy probably either has mental issues or his brain is over-mineralized from eating so much crow at  high altitudes. He thinks just because we prove Romero is a fake, that we do not believe such wheels are possible, but he could not be further from the truth. OUers have the responsibility of being as discerning as possible while following the path to OU. The path is riddled with jokers, both the video making kind and the cry-babying kind. Romero is the former while @chricC is the latter. That is reality. We've seen it before.

wattsup

This thread has become an April Fools joke.

Oh no, this thread still has a lot of potential!  Lol   ;D

Seriously, radiant electricity is dangerous, I call it ionizing radiation most of the time.

But I'll donate to the idea pool, use a long wire that is tied to a tall building, this will span a voltage potential due to the ionosphere that is about 100 V/m, so 10 meters of vertical wire is 1 kV, but you need current to flow, so stick a bottle washer at the tip to facilitate electron transfer to the air and you will have your current.  This is old school stuff.

EM

   IF this were fake then it would be easy to replicate, now wouldn't it.  Who will show how easy it is to fake.
Although some thought the same with the TPU, but NOBODY has replicated it in ANY way, even to prove the point.
In any case, this has got us going, Lasersaber is a great actor,  and a great builder.   But, I don't doubt it for a second, that if it were a real device, that the men in suits would not rush in, to do what they do best.  As GK mentioned that this might happen in any case, as they are the first to be fooled, as happened with SM.  Right?

   Grumpy: 
   This thread is not going anywhere?
  Up to now nobody has really been able to make electricity using only voltage, with no current, or if so, they are not showing it.  Don't think that this thread is going nowhere.  NOW there is interest. 
  To mention what others have done before, with the same insignificant results, is not moving forward.
  I have mentioned the charging of both capacitors and well as batteries, and its as if I'm talking to myself, with no comment from you.  If you are expecting results to be placed in your lap, that may not happen. As those results, are worth more than just money, and are not being given away as a open source project.  At least not yet.

   When somebody claims that the result of any project are fake, then it becomes the responsibility of that person to prove the point, by reproducing the exact same results, but showing how it was faked.  Nobody has done that with any of these supposed faked projects.  That is not to say that I personally have an opinion concerning this last video.

Quote from: NickZ on 2011.07.26, 16:25:51
   Grumpy: 
   This thread is not going anywhere?
  Up to now nobody has really been able to make electricity using only voltage, with no current, or if so, they are not showing it.  Don't think that this thread is going nowhere.  NOW there is interest. 
  To mention what others have done before, with the same insignificant results, is not moving forward.
  I have mentioned the charging of both capacitors and well as batteries, and its as if I'm talking to myself, with no comment from you.  If you are expecting results to be placed in your lap, that may not happen. As those results, are worth more than just money, and are not being given away as a open source project.  At least not yet.

I can make RE any time, can you?  Do you have any idea how to make it or what it is?  I make my own results.  I don't depend on others for them.

Quote from: NickZ on 2011.07.26, 16:25:51
      When somebody claims that the result of any project are fake, then it becomes the responsibility of that person to prove the point, by reproducing the exact same results, but showing how it was faked.  Nobody has done that with any of these supposed faked projects.  That is not to say that I personally have an opinion concerning this last video.

Hi Nick,

Check out my fake TPU at:-

http://www.youtube.com/user/Hoppy1950?feature=mhee

Hoppy

   Grumpy:
   I am not arguing with you.   If you make your own RE, then why don't you share that.  YOU asked a question, which I answered in my own way, ok, nobody too interested, that's ok.  Then you say this thread is going nowhere. Maybe it's not.  If you know how to make RE,  what is the point, or is this a riddle?

  I'd like to be educated like Milehigh is.   

   Hoppy:
   Like Gk said "not enough wires". 
 

    All:
   The reason that I started posting in this thread is because I am interested.  I have not made the antenna capacitor ground type set-up that I've seen in the Tesla patent, or the many videos on youtube on the subject.  I have not tried it Yet, because of all the results obtained by most if not all of the replications, up to now, have been rather disappointing.  If on the other hand there is some new and improved way now, that I may not be aware of, to replicate and obtain higher current levels, that would be great to know.  I do know what static electricity is, also, radiant, or cold electricity etz... and it's not a mistery in getting it into a battery or capacitor, but doing it in a strong and powerful way along with some current, is the trick.  That I don't know. Does anyone?

Quote from: wattsup on 2011.07.26, 13:44:54
....
He thinks just because we prove Romero is a fake, ...

wattsup

Hahhaha. DORK!

cheers
chrisC

chrisC:

I have never seen a single technical posting made by you.  So am I correct that you are not technical?  Your main roles are to encourage OU experimentation and to discourage people that challenge the experimentation?

Just curious.

MileHigh

The easiest way to create what is called the "radiant electric effect" is to apply HV DC impulses to a long coil of wire.  You do not need resonance, as this is not a resonant effect.  The impulse must be in one direction.  I use a stack of avalanche transistors, but I did get a spark gap to work with magnetic quenching as have others.  Triacs should also work, but I have not tried them.  Use of a delay line to turn the switch off works great.

I have seen several fraud's charging batteries and caps with what they call radiant electricity or radiant current.  People new to the concept fall for this like kids for candy.  As far as I know, the effect can not manifest in the discharge of an inductor.  However, this discharge could be applied to a long coil same as a capacitor discharge.

I am not sure what it is.

If by radiant energy we use the example where Tesla was lighting light bulbs across a large sectional copper u bend which to all intense purposes should have been a dead short then i would say that Radiant energy is all over the place, when constructing multilayer pcbs guess why using a ground plane is good practise with multiple points of contact to stop EM bursts and pulses, you can have a copper track that's real short but can have high voltage burst across it's length.


Look at the overhead DC power lines Tesla was brough in to stop people dying, the solution was to introduce suppression at the switching point this alleviated the large initial discharges that were causing problems.

Conclusion is that most EM noise is radiant in nature, scope the mains supply or any other supply come to that, if you are seeing large transients then it's likely to be radiant in nature, we are sourrounded by them, all we need is a way to capture them, the answer to this is to use a capacitor but because each transient has it's own characteristics then we cannot find just one capacitor to capture the energy easily, if we use the printed circuit board ground plane method and capacively couple to sources of radiant energy then maybe we can use the ground plane as a sink but because it's grounded we would not see a potential.

Tesla was abruptly sending high energy radiant pulses through the air using his abrupt-ed generator across a short piece of wire, he could feel these in the air passing him, he found that metal objects and plates would gain a net charge, this would be because the air around him was a dielectric and the metal plates were being charge in respect to ground and were capacitive in nature and therefore were able to be charge and attain a potential voltage.

but if Tesla was using a short piece of wire to generate radiant energy then so can we, how about all the little tracks that carry switching current on a PCB, could they also produce radiant events, well if the PCB is designed poorly then sure they can, must add that ground plain again to kill them.

Quotebut if Tesla was using a short piece of wire to generate radiant energy then so can we, how about all the little tracks that carry switching current on a PCB, could they also produce radiant events, well if the PCB is designed poorly then sure they can, must add that ground plain again to kill them.

Or a many stranded wire collector, like speaker wire.

Quote from: Peterae on 2011.07.27, 07:53:59
If by radiant energy we use the example where Tesla was lighting light bulbs across a large sectional copper u bend which to all intense purposes should have been a dead short then i would say that Radiant energy is all over the place, when constructing multilayer pcbs guess why using a ground plane is good practise with multiple points of contact to stop EM bursts and pulses, you can have a copper track that's real short but can have high voltage burst across it's length.


Look at the overhead DC power lines Tesla was brough in to stop people dying, the solution was to introduce suppression at the switching point this alleviated the large initial discharges that were causing problems.

Conclusion is that most EM noise is radiant in nature, scope the mains supply or any other supply come to that, if you are seeing large transients then it's likely to be radiant in nature, we are sourrounded by them, all we need is a way to capture them, the answer to this is to use a capacitor but because each transient has it's own characteristics then we cannot find just one capacitor to capture the energy easily, if we use the printed circuit board ground plane method and capacively couple to sources of radiant energy then maybe we can use the ground plane as a sink but because it's grounded we would not see a potential.

Tesla was abruptly sending high energy radiant pulses through the air using his abrupt-ed generator across a short piece of wire, he could feel these in the air passing him, he found that metal objects and plates would gain a net charge, this would be because the air around him was a dielectric and the metal plates were being charge in respect to ground and were capacitive in nature and therefore were able to be charge and attain a potential voltage.

but if Tesla was using a short piece of wire to generate radiant energy then so can we, how about all the little tracks that carry switching current on a PCB, could they also produce radiant events, well if the PCB is designed poorly then sure they can, must add that ground plain again to kill them.

I think Tesla was working with some other aspect of electricity.  Does anyone have a reference from Tesla, where he, himself, states that his hairpin circuit produced the radiant electricity effect?

In Tesla patent, 685957, he provides several means for charging batteries or capacitors with "radiant energy".  I do not know of a reference where Tesla used the term "radiant electricity", and can only assume that Gary Vassalitos (spelling?) was the first to use this term.  I asked a long time ago, perhaps early in this thread, if anyone had a reference where Tesla indicated you could charge a battery with RE, but no one recalled this patent and it is the only reference that I know of where Tesla, battery, and radiant appear together.

Tesla believes that postive particles of high energy are projected from these artificial or natural sources and that the particles are highly charged and transfer their charge to the elevated plate.  When discussing the arc with reflector, he states that UV rays are emmited.  All of the soruces mentioned produce waves of varying energy density and I suspect that momentum is transfered to the elevated plate rather than charged particles.  I have read literary sources that state the angular momentum of particles is constant, and if this is correct then would additional momentum make them move or force them to divide?  They are just clouds after all.

  I think that there are too different things going on.  One is producing RE out of thin air (so called), and the other is to produce RE by utilizing the normal grid power, and converting that to RE.  I don't understand the purpose of the second idea of conversion of the grid to usable RE.  Is that just to prove that it can be done?

Quote from: NickZ on 2011.07.27, 15:40:15
  I think that there are too different things going on.  One is producing RE out of thin air (so called), and the other is to produce RE by utilizing the normal grid power, and converting that to RE.  I don't understand the purpose of the second idea of conversion of the grid to usable RE.  Is that just to prove that it can be done?

You can only collect a small amount out of thin air via Tesla's raised palte method.  However, Moray collected much more with his tubes/valves.

In converting mains power to something that runs with gain, you have multiplied your supply.

  I believe the way to produce Radiant Electricity from Radiant Energy has been up to now exclusively by the use of capacitors to convert one form of energy to another more useable form of electricity.  This has been done by the unique ability of the capacitor to separate the charges from the Aether into both + and - .  There may be other forms of doing the same thing to create useable radiant electricity.
 I believe the homemade batteries and cells that some people are working on now, although galvanic in nature,  may be doing basically the same thing by separating the charges out of the Aether, and not just from the chemical reaction, which eventually drains the battery and kills the dipole.  The cement cells even after many months still continue to produce energy with no obvious deterioration.  This energy obtained by the cells when connected in series will fill capacitors and batteries, which appears to last even longer than normal current, and has a higher potential than the Tesla plate-capacitor-ground set-up that people have tried so far.  The disadvantage of using mostly potential type devices is limited to just the lighting of Leds, cfls, etz...  Or not?
 The point that Grumpy makes of the "indirect" approach is a very important point, as there is no actual use or draw of the source, and therefore also no discharging of it,  either.  But, Are there any examples of this?

As the high speed charges balance out by coming together we see photons.

What is a "cement cell"?

I look at all forms of induction as a transfer of momentum between two things:

Moving magnet
Moving charged object
Changing field forces
Combinations of forces

  Cement Cell:  there is no induction there.  Nor moving objects. The cause of the power is supposed to come from a chemical galvanic reaction.  This reaction is caused to happen by two different metals acting as electrodes along with an electrolyte.  The output is electrical in nature, and not magnetic.   This is how normal batteries like lead acid batteries function, to produce power, at the expence of the metals that are giving off of themselves, and being dissolved in the process. The difference is they did to be charged and produce nothing by themselves. Not exactly how the cement or crystal power cell function but close enough for a short description.  The cement cells were originally  developed by John Bedini, Lidmotor, as well as others like myself.
  But, our cement cells don't discharge or need to be recharged and are perpetually producing usable power, although at low voltage (less than 2 volts per cell) and low current of less that 70 or mA per cell, also.  But these cells can be connected in series to produce up to 110 volts or more, and will also charge both batteries as well as capacitors, up to their same voltage and current levels.  I hope this helps. 
                                                                                                  NickZ
 

Quote from: NickZ on 2011.07.26, 22:55:47
   Hoppy:
   Like Gk said "not enough wires". 
 

But there's more than enough wire in the transformer to light the 60W / 240V lamp. No radiant needed - LOL

Hoppy

So, a cement cell is just a homemade battery, and once you mention the name "Bedini", I lose all interest.

check this out:  http://cr.middlebury.edu/es/altenergylife/electric_car_page.htm

:o  30kWh  :o

Batteries aren't even a practical option.  Even if you are charging them for "free"!   :D