Browsing through the many TPU thread's,it seems that the suggestion of starting another is the right way to go.
I believe the way forward is to first produce a transformer of such configuration where the primary side is not influenced in any way when a load is placed on the secondary side.
It has been said that the TPU may not work using standard electromagnetic induction,and that it could be some form of electrostatic acceleration of electrons.
Well i believe it is a form of electromagnetic induction,but which has a different configuration to that of what we use today. I believe that more attention needs to be paid toward a transformer,where the load placed across the secondary of that transformer has no effect what so ever on the primary side of that transformer.
The biggest problem is the magnetic field's between the primary and secondary interacting with each other,where the secondary produces a magnetic field equal to but also working against that produced by the primary.
So,the solution was to design and build a transformer where the secondary is induced by the primary,but where the magnetic field produce by the loaded secondary is at 90* to the field of the primary.
I am uploading the video ATM,but i will add two scope shots below for you to consider.
The secondary has a 1k pot,and a 1 ohm load resistor in series.
The pot is so as i can increase or decrease the load across the secondary from 1.001k down to just 1 ohm.
Scope shots
Yellow chanel (CH1) shows voltage across the 10,000uF input cap.
Blue chanel (CH2) shows the voltage across the 1 ohm CSR
Purple chanel (CH3) show the current through the 1 ohm load resistor,and secondary winding.
1st scope shot is with the full 1.001k ohm load across the secondary
2nd scope shot shows the pot turned right down,and so just the 1 ohm load across the secondary.
You will note that the load placed on the secondary has absolutely no effect what so ever on the primary.
As the current value and waveform remain the same in both cases,we can assume that the inductance value of the primary never changed when the load was increased across the secondary.
This would also indicate that the magnetic fields produced by the primary and secondary are indeed at 90* to each other,which is what i attempted to achieve in this test. O0
The configuration of this transformer is in the video to come.
I am now about to build a larger version of this transformer.
Brad
Hi Brad
Glad that you have started this thread.
Before you get too deep into it, please go to this link and scroll down to the "second report on energy device" and read it very carefully. I cannot stress more the importance of this.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg6311#msg6311
Regards
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.03, 04:54:03
Hi Brad
Glad that you have started this thread.
Before you get too deep into it, please go to this link and scroll down to the "second report on energy device" and read it very carefully. I cannot stress more the importance of this.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg6311#msg6311
Regards
Hi ION
Im guessing you mean this one ?.
I have read both reports many time's,more so the second one quoted below
:
Second report on Energy Device
At the request of Steven Mark I agreed to thoroughly test his invention of an energy device" toroid" at my laboratory at the UCI campus.
With me was John Sanchez who will act as an observer and Mr. Mark who will operate his device for the tests.
The device is reported to develop measurable amounts of electric power beyond any known battery or storage device.
In fact the inventor claims that his device will create electric power indefinitely as long as it is permitted to cool at intervals.
Mr. Mark arrived promptly at 8:30 AM and wasted no time in permitting my examination of two units.
The first unit was roughly shaped like a large donut. It measured approximately 4.72" across with an inside diameter hole of 3" making a core width approximately 1" thick.
The unit was exactly 2" tall, resembling a "Toroid". I did not measure the weight however the unit was extremely light when held in the hand.
Mr. Mark connected the unit directly to a 100 watt 120 volt incandescent light bulb and caused the unit to operate.
It did in fact illuminate the incandescent bulb quite brightly. I measured the voltage at 137 volts D.C. exactly, (ObS). See note*
I then measured the current flowing through the wires to the bulb at a steady one-ampere, (ObS).
We noted the time at 9:06 AM.,(ObS).
We next measured the light output from the bulb with a luminescence meter and noted that it read 2.5, (ObS).
Next we measured a similar incandescent bulb placed in a socket powered from the main 120 volt (as measured) AC power provided to the laboratory.
It measured 2.4 on the luminescence meter. This can probably be accounted for because the voltage as measured from the Toroid device is 137 volts and therefore 12 volts greater, generating a slight increase in light output over the incandescent light powered by the laboratory main power supply system.
The toroid device did indeed provide the standard voltage and current necessary to provide electric lighting for a 120-volt circuit.
The inventor then asked us for another bulb, which we provided him and he set about connecting the second bulb along with the first.
The second bulb was connected in parallel to the first and did indeed light just as brightly as the first.
I measured 137 volts now across the output just as before although the load had doubled and the impedance halved (ObS).
I measured the current flowing to the two bulbs at just less then 2-amperes, (ObS).
The inventor stated that the unit would provide the two amperes at 137 volts for several hours, if not indefinitely.
We were cautioned that the unit while in operation would generate heat leading to self-destruction if not shut down and permitted to cool.
He claimed that after cooling the unit could be restarted and used again over and over.
We permitted the first unit to remain in operation and provide power for the two incandescent bulbs while we turned our attention to the second larger unit the inventor brought with him for testing.
The second unit was again toroid shaped with a large hole in the center. It was approximately 15" at the outside and 13" inside with a core thickness of approximately 1". The unit was 4" tall. The unit was not measured in weight but could be easily lifted with one hand, (ObS).
The inventor started the second larger unit in operation and cautioned myself and Mr. Sanchez not to touch the output leads from the device as they were at lethal potential. The time was 9:39 AM.
The inventor measured the output leads and told us there was 600 volts potential at several amperes.
He connected the unit to five 120 volt 100 watt incandescent light bulbs as provided by myself.
The larger second unit did indeed brightly light the five incandescent bulbs brightly. These bulbs were wired in series.
I measured the current through the wire connected to the 5-bulbs at 1.1 ampere, (ObS). I measured the voltage at 614 volts D.C., (ObS).
The inventor then connected another five 120 volt light bulbs along with the first five making a total of ten 120 volt, 100 watt incandescent light bulbs lighting at equal intensity.
I measured the light output with a luminescence meter at 2.43 each light bulb, (ObS). I did not measure the current but calculated it to be 2 amperes at 614 volts.
I asked the inventor if this was the limit of the unit and he replied, "no way."
He provided a quick blow fuse rated at 50 amperes.
With two large electrical clamps and wiring, he shorted the fuse across the output terminals of the toroid and destroyed the fuse, (ObS).
There was only a slight flickering of the ten incandescent bulbs as observed although there was a tremendous discharge of sparks from the output terminals of the toroid unit.
The inventor then gave me the fuse for examination. It was warm to the touch and smelled acrid, (ObS).
It was a large 240 volt AC air conditioner disconnect fuse and designed for severe service duty, (OsS).
The inventor's claim that the large toroid output terminals were at lethal potential was no longer in question.
The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because of heat build up.
I examined the small toroid unit and it was indeed quite hot to the touch.
The unit had been in steady operation for exactly two hours and fourteen minutes. Noted: 2-hours and 14 minutes, (ObS).
The load of 2- amperes at 137-volts did not change through the test period.
I can personally state that I do not know of any battery or storage device of this size or weight with this capability.
The time was 12:47 when the inventor removed the large toroid device from operation.
It had been in constant operation for three hours and eight minutes
.
Noted: 3-hours and 8 minutes, (ObS).
The load of 10-amperes and the voltage of 614 volts did not change throughout the test with the exception that the voltage did began to fluctuate at 12:03 and began a slight decline to 598 volts by the end of the test.
This could be due to heating of the unit while in operation.
I can personally state that I do not know of any battery or storage device of this size or weight with this capability.
I cannot determine how many hours the toriod units could potentially operate because of our limited time available for testing.
I can however state with relative certainty I believe the tests show great potential for this Toroid technology.
December 12, 1995 Roland Schinzinger
*note: (ObS) "also observed by John Sanchez".
Is there something in particular i am looking for?,other than the volume of power delivered to loads for such a long period of time.
Brad
So let's have a close look at that report by Roland Schinzinger
Is Roland Schinzinger a trustworthy and honest man ?
If so,then the TPU was the real deal.
Quoting the report-->small device
1-At the request of Steven Mark I agreed to thoroughly test his invention of an energy device" toroid" at my laboratory at the UCI campus.
Ok,so this rules out SM having some form of wireless energy transfer system at his home powering the devices,as the tests were carried out at the UCI campus.
2-With me was John Sanchez
Not sure who this John Sanchez fellow is yet--is he an honest man ?
3-The device is reported to develop measurable amounts of electric power beyond any known battery or storage device.
I think this will be answered as we go.
4-The first unit was roughly shaped like a large donut. It measured approximately 4.72" across with an inside diameter hole of 3" making a core width approximately 1" thick.The unit was exactly 2" tall, resembling a "Toroid". I did not measure the weight however the unit was extremely light when held in the hand.
The shell was 1 inch thick,and 2 inches tall. This could house 9v batteries.
The unit was extremely light. Well we have 137 volts measured across the lightbulb,so we would need 15 x 9v batteries to get our 137 volts.
Now,the 9 volt battery will fit thickness wise and just in height wise,but what about within the circumference ?
The outer diameter is 4.72 inches,which is 14.82 inches circumference<--this is the very outer circumference. So 15 x 9 volt batteries will not fit within the measurements of the device. There is also the fact that 15 9v batteries will not be extremely light. So with these size value's,batteries are out.
5- It did in fact illuminate the incandescent bulb quite brightly. I measured the voltage at 137 volts D.C. exactly, (ObS). See note*
I then measured the current flowing through the wires to the bulb at a steady one-ampere, (ObS).
So we have 137 watts of power being dissipated by the bulb.
6-We next measured the light output from the bulb with a luminescence meter and noted that it read 2.5, (ObS).
Next we measured a similar incandescent bulb placed in a socket powered from the main 120 volt (as measured) AC power provided to the laboratory.
It measured 2.4 on the luminescence meter.
So the bulb is putting out slightly more light than the same bulb plugged into mains.
No LED's at that time,and to much light for a CFL<--if they even had them back then ?
7-We noted the test start time at 9:06 AM.,(ObS).
The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because of heat build up.
So 2 hours and 14 minutes running a 137 watt load--->batteries are definitely out.
Well,the weight size and power output over time of the small device tells us batteries are out-->no way in hell.
The fact that the device was tested away from SMs home,and tests carried out at the UCI campus,tells us that any form of wireless energy is also out.Even in the controlled environment of SMs home,you would need one hell of a wireless energy transfer system to transmit and receive 137 watts of power back in 1995 over the distances shown,where the transmitter cannot be seen in any of the video's,and so,must be in another room.
If Roland Schinzinger and John Sanchez are credible people,then the only conclusion is that the device did exactly what the inventor claims it dose.
OK,here is my video on the DUT at ATM.
Now,i have completed and tested a larger transformer of the same configuration,and well,i'll let the next video show you the outcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfDo5A3Gx8
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.03, 08:10:46
OK,here is my video on the DUT at ATM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfDo5A3Gx8
I don't understand the schematic, e.g. because I do not see 4 wires coming out of the transformer ...but don't these scope probe ground clips short the points of the circuit that they are connected to?
If you measure the resistance between these 2 ground clips, it is 0Ω, isn't it ?
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.03, 08:42:26
I don't understand the schematic, e.g. because I do not see 4 wires coming out of the transformer ...but don't these scope probe ground clips short the points of the circuit that they are connected to?
If you measure the resistance between these 2 ground clips, it is 0Ω, isn't it ?
Yes,the scope probes share a common ground,but in this case it dose not matter.
The scope ground lead can be removed from the secondary,and the result is exactly the same.
If i place the DMM across the 1 ohm load resistor,it gives the same value as the scope's average value,and the input power remains the same,regardless of the load across the secondary coil.
Brad
Hi Brad,
Where can we find the schematic?
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.03, 10:01:36
Hi Brad,
Where can we find the schematic?
just drawing it up now.
Had my hands full with the grandkids for past couple of hours :D
Brad
Nice Brad. I'd like to print one. I have a 100mm D one already But I'd like to go to 300. I have some 15A wirring left over from my old shed so I think I'll use that as the primary. `````````````````````````
Hi Brad,
I wonder why you made a gap in the toroidal core for this setup?
Addition: would you measure inductances for the two coils?
Thanks,
Gyula
Quote from: gyula on 2019.02.03, 11:25:08
Hi Brad,
I wonder why you made a gap in the toroidal core for this setup?
Addition: would you measure inductances for the two coils?
Thanks,
Gyula
If it was me because it would act as a single turn short.
Regards
Mike 8)
Dear Mike,
Thanks but your comment is not clear for me yet. A single turn short from which coil's point of view? I would like to learn so if you could elaborate on this?
Gyula
The very simple schematic.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2019.02.03, 11:33:11
If it was me because it would act as a single turn short.
Regards
Mike 8)
O0
Quote from: gyula on 2019.02.03, 11:42:31
Dear Mike,
Thanks but your comment is not clear for me yet. A single turn short from which coil's point of view? I would like to learn so if you could elaborate on this?
Gyula
Hi Gyula
If the toroid is iron-based it may produce currents with the configuration used, if so the results Brad is looking for may not be the same. I think I know what you are thinking, it is effectively wound just like any other transformer if you look at the "tree and not the wood" ;) Have you ever wound a coil over a ferrite cylinder core (with a slit down one side, then passed a single loop through the middle to power a small light, the coil being driven at it's resonant frequency? no slit no light.
Just the way I was thinking
Regards
Mike 8)
Now,have a look at this.
I think Mike will like it O0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41ZkWUC-zbQ
Brad
Quote from: gyula on 2019.02.03, 11:25:08
Hi Brad,
I wonder why you made a gap in the toroidal core for this setup?
Addition: would you measure inductances for the two coils?
Thanks,
Gyula
The gap is so the magnetic field within the core do not form a continual loop--no magnetic short so to speak.
I will go get those values for you now O0
Brad
Quote from: gyula on 2019.02.03, 11:25:08
Hi Brad,
I wonder why you made a gap in the toroidal core for this setup?
Addition: would you measure inductances for the two coils?
Thanks,
Gyula
The primary (the smaller gauge wire wrapped around the larger gauge wire)is 50uH,and the secondary is 30uH
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your answer. I was suspecting the effect of the 1 Ohm across the secondary as a 'short' (reflecting back to the input), this is why I asked 'the which coil's point of view', you figured my way of thinking ok in this respect.
My answer to your question is no, I have not built a coil over a lengthwise slit toroidal core but onto solid toroids only. I also built coils onto the outside surface of stacked toroids (but having no gaps lengthwise) and there was a conductor too going through in the center of the toroids (like in couplers), I found nothing special. the 'trick' now seems to be the gap in the core and the winding method of the primary wire directly onto the secondary wire.
It remains to be seen how effective such 'trick' can be. Due to the very tight and close windings there should be a relatively high capacity between the two wires i.e. between the primary and secondary coils. Perhaps this capacitance can give a resonant frequency with the coils, this may or may not be beneficial.
Gyula
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.03, 12:18:17
The primary (the smaller gauge wire wrapped around the larger gauge wire)is 50uH,and the secondary is 30uH
Hi Brad,
Thanks for checking the inductances. O0
And I understand your comment on the gap.
I suspect that the strong capacitive coupling between the two windings may make up for the normally negative effect of the gap it causes magnetically in the usual energy transfer in transformers. This remains to be seen of course.
Gyula
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.03, 12:18:17
The primary (the smaller gauge wire wrapped around the larger gauge wire)is 50uH,and the secondary is 30uH
Brad
The differences between the two cores is very interesting. Normally in a switch mode flyback converter the forward pulse is not loaded on the secondary, so the primary current is not altered by load changes in the secondary, as they are two independent events (unless it is feedback stabilized for changing loads). Where the forward pulse is used in the secondary loading, we would expect to see a direct correlation between primary current and secondary load. That we do not is the interesting difference.
That there is a difference in the measured inductance between the main winding and the over winding is also significant and to be investigated, as both windings represent the same number of actual turns threading the core.
Can you now do a control experiment by trying the same gapped core wound with a bifilar (can be very small zip cord or two lengths of wire lightly twisted) of equal length and number of turns as your compound wire. If it will fit on the core, it will not be necessary to unwind the original as long as the ends of the original are not touching anything. Of course it will be better to remove the original for this test.
Measure the inductance to see if it is close to the original or somewhere between 30 to 50 uH, then run the test again. We expect that the inductance will be equal for a bifilar winding. The "control" test should be revealing.
BTW, the gap allows the remnant magnetism to quickly reset out of the core and prevents flux walking leading to saturation as may occur in the ungapped core, although we have no idea of core material for the two cores tested it is hard to tell. The scope shots do not seem to indicate saturation.
Regarding the report #2
Wattsup was the first to bring up the possibility of a string of common 9V batteries a some time ago.
To refute this, battery analysis was done by me a while back here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg6496#msg6496
You should complete your analysis of the second report and take notes as
several important points (clues) were missed.Regards
Brad,
My analysis of your videos is as follows:
Video #1- The input current has a peak of ~800ma which would include any reflected output current plus the core magnetization current, The core magnetization current will be proportionally high compared to the reflected current due to the large core gap so any small change in output current will be masked. The Pout with the 1k load is ~ .0055^2 * 1e3 = 30mw and with the 1 ohm load is ~ .193^2 * 1 = 37mw. Is this output change too small to really show up as a significant input change?
Video #2- In the first part with the larger core, the input reflected and mag current is now ~30ma peak thus considerably less than the small core due to there being no core gap. The output will now have a greater affect on the input as a result. Here the Pout for the 1k load is ~.005^ * 1e3 = 25mw and for the 1 ohm is ~ .111^2 * 1 = 12mw!
The second part of the this video with the small core inserted still shows a high reflected and mag current of ~500ma which appears to be less than the first video due to a reduced duty cycle. However, with the load change, there is a small but detectable change in the input current in your scope waveforms.
Regards,
Pm
Just started reading this thread and from Brad's first post he said
QuoteThe biggest problem is the magnetic field's between the primary and secondary interacting with each other,where the secondary produces a magnetic field equal to but also working against that produced by the primary.
After doing much magnetic domain analysis I have reached the view that the primary and secondary currents produce mmf, and it is the combination of those two mmfs that create the magnetic field. I think it is wrong to imagine fields working against each other. There is only one field and that comes from the mmfs.
The secondary mmf exactly cancels the primary
load-current component of its mmf, hence the secondary mmf does not produce a magnetic field at all (this is for perfect coupling, if the coupling is not perfect the primary load-current and the secondary load-current combine to drive a leakage magnetic field). There is also a primary mmf component at 90 degrees to the load component (from the so called magnetizing current) and this drives the magnetic field around the core.
Just started reading this thread and from Brad's first post he said
Edit. This is for sine waves. For pulses the concept of a 90 degree component is meaningless.
Smudge
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.03, 12:18:17
The primary (the smaller gauge wire wrapped around the larger gauge wire)is 50uH,and the secondary is 30uH
...and what is the capacitance between an open primary and open secondary ?
Also, does this capacitance change when your micro-wrapped composite wire is straight vs. wound on the toroidal core ?
Question
What causes a voltage across a conductor when a magnet is passed over it?.
We know electrons flowing through a conductor carries current,and this happens only when there is a looped path the electrons can flow through--but what happens within the conductor for a voltage to appear across that conductor ?
And a little more than !charge separation would be good.
Brad
The best answer, by far, comes from relativity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0
Cool video
Regards
Mike 8)
For those printing with metal I've used the bent pipe shape generator to create a toroid with a 27 deg gap. If anyone wants a downloadable from thingingverse, we can do custom dimensions, solid, pipe, etc.
https://www.tinkercad.com/things/ceXGKOwGFGs-split-toroid
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.04, 08:53:35
The best answer, by far, comes from relativity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0
Thats great.
We now are full bottles on current.
So now back to my question-->what causes a voltage across a conductor when a permanent magnet is passed over it ?.
Brad
Second question.
Looking at the diagram below,will a voltage appear across the coil when the capacitor plates are charged?.
Brad
According to present day theory a changing magnetic field produces an electric field and a changing electric field produces a magnetic field. Going back to the former, a time-changing magnetic field (say in the x direction) will produce an electric field vortex, that is a circular electric field in the y-z plane. This is adequately demonstrated by many experiments and obeys the rule that the closed-line integral of the electric field is a voltage equal to the time rate-of-change of the flux passing through that closed line. In a transformer that voltage is the volts per turn.
In the second case a time-changing electric field (say in the x direction) will produce a magnetic field vortex, that is a circular magnetic field in the y-z plane. You could demonstrate this if you put a magnetic ring core between your capacitor plates with its axis (the line through the hole) along the electric field, have a toroidal winding on that core and look for voltage across that winding.
In your experiment there is capacitive coupling from the plates to the ends of the coil, and if the coil inductance is high enough that will induce a voltage across the coil during capacitor charge or discharge.
Smudge
Brad,
I have looked again at your first post where you show two scope pics. From the first one showing an exponential rise of current over 11 uS I have done some curve fitting to establish that you used a 10X probe on your CSR so the current rise is 10X that on the screen (perhaps you could verify this). It fitted to a 4.8uH inductor with a series loss R of 1.55 ohms. At the end of the 11 uS pulse the inductor stored 146 uJ of energy, the 1.55 ohm resistor lost 662uJ during the pulse and the energy draw from the 12.5V supply was 800 uJ. The 1 ohm CSR lost 427 uJ to heat. That leaves 235 uJ lost in the transformer. When you changed the secondary load down to 1 ohm it could have changed the transformer characteristic so that the energy delivered to that load came from the 235uJ that would otherwise be lost to heat, and that could explain why the input did not see any change.
Attached is the excel file where I did the curve fitting and the calculations.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.02.04, 18:30:05
Brad,
I have looked again at your first post where you show two scope pics. From the first one showing an exponential rise of current over 11 uS I have done some curve fitting to establish that you used a 10X probe on your CSR so the current rise is 10X that on the screen (perhaps you could verify this). It fitted to a 4.8uH inductor with a series loss R of 1.55 ohms. At the end of the 11 uS pulse the inductor stored 146 uJ of energy, the 1.55 ohm resistor lost 662uJ during the pulse and the energy draw from the 12.5V supply was 800 uJ. The 1 ohm CSR lost 427 uJ to heat. That leaves 235 uJ lost in the transformer. When you changed the secondary load down to 1 ohm it could have changed the transformer characteristic so that the energy delivered to that load came from the 235uJ that would otherwise be lost to heat, and that could explain why the input did not see any change.
Attached is the excel file where I did the curve fitting and the calculations.
Smudge
Hi Smudge.
I just checked the probes and scope,which are still hooked up to the DUT from the last video.
All probes and scope channels are set to 1x.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.04, 12:42:27
Thats great.
We now are full bottles on current.
So now back to my question-->what causes a voltage across a conductor when a permanent magnet is passed over it ?.
Brad
Why "back" ?! The answer was in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0). :)
What is true for the field from a current in a wire is also true for permanent magnets which are a current loop or a set of current loops. These are always relative movements of charges related to each other. It is also a consequence of the contraction of lengths.
The relative movement means that the electric fields are no longer isotropic and no longer compensate each other between positive and negative charges. As a result, the conductor charges are subjected to the resultant electric field of the permanent magnet charges (and vice versa).
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.05, 08:38:51
Why "back" ?! The answer was in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0). :)
What is true for the field from a current in a wire is also true for permanent magnets which are a current loop or a set of current loops. These are always relative movements of charges related to each other. It is also a consequence of the contraction of lengths.
The relative movement means that the electric fields are no longer isotropic and no longer compensate each other between positive and negative charges. As a result, the conductor charges are subjected to the resultant electric field of the permanent magnet charges (and vice versa).
There is a second Q re the LC above. :)
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.05, 08:38:51
Why "back" ?! The answer was in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0). :)
What is true for the field from a current in a wire is also true for permanent magnets which are a current loop or a set of current loops. These are always relative movements of charges related to each other. It is also a consequence of the contraction of lengths.
The relative movement means that the electric fields are no longer isotropic and no longer compensate each other between positive and negative charges. As a result, the conductor charges are subjected to the resultant electric field of the permanent magnet charges (and vice versa).
If this is true,then the following should be considered.
We know how strong the magnetic field of a neo permanent magnet can be.
We also know that in order for us to create a field of equal strength to that of a neo permanent magnet,we would need a good size coil,and a lot of current. We also know that the flow current creates heat.
So one has to wonder as to why,with a field so strong,the humble neo permanent magnet creates no heat what so ever ???
We should also note that since the PM needs to have a continual flow of current in order for it to be a PM,that it must be creating it's own energy to do so. This would equate to a self running device C.C
And,if we can have a device that self powers it's own magnetic field,then why is a device that self powers it's own electrical energy so hard to believe--such as the TPU.
We have been bred and brought up on induction as being the only means to create electrical power,putting aside things like the solar panel,piezo's,peltier module's,and the hydrogen fuel cell C.C .
Perhaps there is something we have missed here,due to the indoctrination we have all been swamped with.
How exactly dose this self powered field generator(the humble PM)continue to self power it self for 100's of years? .What have we missed here?
If we have a simple device that can continually self power it's own magnetic field,then the same should be true for an electric field.
Brad
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.05, 08:38:51
Why "back" ?! The answer was in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0). :)
Yes, the video explains well what happens when the charges move, but I think what he is asking is what happens when the charges do not move with respect to the conductor thus there is no current flow in the conductor ...yet the voltage is still there at its edges. A Currentless voltage.
I know the answer is relative motion, but from the video it is not readily apparent motion of what, unless one is willing to accept the notion that motion does not require an object for its definition, as nothing of the sort appears in the basic equation of motion s/t.
An electric field exists between stationary charges, there is no charge movement needed. Of course the field concept is just a math means of explaining things, so if you don't want to talk about fields then you must talk about some pattern bestowed on the virtual particles of vacuum space. These are mass-less particles (or in relativity speak they have zero rest-mass) so they travel at light velocity and they are the carriers for all electric and magnetic effects. Space is full of these whizzing through from all directions, but some of them interact with matter particles and that interaction super-imposes a pattern that then affects how another nearby matter particle behaves. It is that matter- to-matter interaction that we interpret as a field. So to answer your question IMO it is those space particles that power the electric field.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.02.05, 14:38:52
Of course the field concept is just a math means of explaining things, so if you don't want to talk about fields then you must talk about some pattern bestowed on the virtual particles of vacuum space.
There is also a
third explanation (http://reciprocalsystem.org/video/rs2/introduction) involving only space and time relationships.
Here (http://blazelabs.com/f-u-suconv.asp) are some examples.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 14:58:02
There is also a third explanation (http://reciprocalsystem.org/video/rs2/introduction) involving only space and time relationships.
Here (http://blazelabs.com/f-u-suconv.asp) are some examples.
STEAP TPU, SPACE TIME ENERGY ABSORPTION PUMP ;)
Regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 14:58:02
There is also a third explanation (http://reciprocalsystem.org/video/rs2/introduction) involving only space and time relationships.
Here (http://blazelabs.com/f-u-suconv.asp) are some examples.
Eric Dollard breaks his electrical engineering formulae into the same kind of dimensional relationships. ^-^
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.05, 11:57:09
If this is true,then the following should be considered.
We know how strong the magnetic field of a neo permanent magnet can be.
We also know that in order for us to create a field of equal strength to that of a neo permanent magnet,we would need a good size coil,and a lot of current. We also know that the flow current creates heat.
So one has to wonder as to why,with a field so strong,the humble neo permanent magnet creates no heat what so ever ???
These questions have been answered for a long time.
The current in a conductor is free electrons, subjected to the resistance of the conductor so there is dissipation of thermal energy.
The current of permanent magnets is that of rotating charges: the spin, and to a lesser extent, orbital rotations, due to their orientation in the same direction unlike non-magnetic materials which nevertheless have the same spins and orbital rotations but randomly oriented.
In both cases, these are moving charges, so a current.
Maxwell's equations don't care where the current comes from.
Relativity too.
In a permanent magnet, the movement of the charges is the spin and orbital rotation, so there is no dissipation. But in a superconductor, there is none either. A current in an ideal coil, superconducting and looped on itself, rotates indefinitely. It is the same for the magnetic field as a charged capacitor for the electric field: the perfect open capacitor retains its voltage, the perfect close coil retains its current.
The equivalence between permanent magnet and coils can always be done, the only difference being that our coils are far from ideal, they generally have a significant resistance (while our capacitors are much closer to the theoretical ideal).
Quote
...
How exactly dose this self powered field generator(the humble PM)continue to self power it self for 100's of years?
...
Newton's first law. There is no reason they don't.
A current is not energy. There is no need for energy, spins and orbital rotations occur in the interatomic vacuum.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 14:58:02
There is also a third explanation (http://reciprocalsystem.org/video/rs2/introduction) involving only space and time relationships.
"The Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything"
It's a joke?
Quote from: Reiyuki on 2019.02.05, 16:43:06
Eric Dollard breaks his electrical engineering formulae into the same kind of dimensional relationships. ^-^
For me, Dollard's work is a key to understanding what I believe happens in the TPU.
With resonance, we get a separation of charge into its constitutive magnetism and dielectricity components.
Dollard and TT Brown demonstrated this here:
https://youtu.be/6BnCUBKgnnc?t=1383
In addition, it seems that at resonance, an oscillating LC begins to take on greater open circuit characteristics.
The late Doc Stiffler asserted this much by demonstrating the SEC inductor's spatial self resonant frequency as the necessary precondition for the SEC to "cohere" charge from the "spatio-temoral lattice" (consider Dollard's categories), or more simply, from the aether/environment.
From this vantage point, as Mike notes above, the TPU becomes a "space time energy absorption pump."
Respectfully,
Bob
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.05, 18:36:40
It's a joke?
Nope, it is a T.O.E. after all...and a good one, too.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 14:37:04
Yes, the video explains well what happens when the charges move, but I think what he is asking is what happens when the charges do not move with respect to the conductor thus there is no current flow in the conductor ...yet the voltage is still there at its edges. A Currentless voltage.
I know the answer is relative motion, but from the video it is not readily apparent motion of what, unless one is willing to accept the notion that motion does not require an object for its definition, as nothing of the sort appears in the basic equation of motion s/t.
Yes verpies,that is exactly what i am asking.
There is also the fact that passing a magnet over a conductor results in an alternating voltage-but why ?.
Should it not result in a DC voltage half wave sine ? .
As the magnetic field increases in strength,the voltage across the conductor increases,and when that same magnetic starts to decrease,the voltage across the inductor has now inverted,and starts to decrease. Why did the voltage invert when the polarity of the magnetic remaind the same ?
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.05, 22:26:00
Yes verpies,that is exactly what i am asking.
There is also the fact that passing a magnet over a conductor results in an alternating voltage-but why ?.
Should it not result in a DC voltage half wave sine ? .
As the magnetic field increases in strength,the voltage across the conductor increases,and when that same magnetic starts to decrease,the voltage across the inductor has now inverted,and starts to decrease. Why did the voltage invert when the polarity of the magnetic remaind the same ?
[/glow]
Because the polarity is dependent on the direction of the magnet. Approaching gives one polarity and receding gives the opposite polarity. If you want to see a DC signal from a magnet passing the coil it is easy to do that. Turn the magnet so that as it approaches the coil either the north or south side of the magnet nears the coil. You need to have the magnet oriented so that as the magnet passes the coil the opposite polarity of the magnet will be the side moving away from the coil. In other words the block wall of the magnet needs to be perpendicular to the direction of travel of the magnet as it passes over the coil.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.05, 22:26:00
Yes verpies,that is exactly what i am asking.
There is also the fact that passing a magnet over a conductor results in an alternating voltage-but why ?.
Should it not result in a DC voltage half wave sine ? .
As the magnetic field increases in strength,the voltage across the conductor increases,and when that same magnetic starts to decrease,the voltage across the inductor has now inverted,and starts to decrease. Why did the voltage invert when the polarity of the magnetic remaind the same ?
If we are talking about just 1 pole of a magnet passing by 1 wire perpendicularly, there should only be a half wave output from the wire. But we also have to consider just before and after the magnet is tdw (top dead wire, lol), there are fields that arc out of the magnet pole and show opposite of what is in front of the magnets pole. So we could see a dip negative on the scope before tdw, then a large swing up positive around tdw, and then a dip negative after tdw. The dips before and after tdw can be reduced if the magnet being used is longer from pole to pole vs a very flat magnet like say a 1in by 1/8in disk magnet, where the side arc fields are more prominent. But if it is a coil of wire facing the magnet, then we will see say a positive swing on the scope as the magnet approaches the incoming side of the coil, then 0v at tdc, and then a negative swing on the scope as the magnet induces mostly the departing side of the coil.
There is a depiction out there that shows a coil on a rod core and the magnet passes by the side of the coil instead of its face. It shows a small dip on the approach and then a positive swing as the magnet goes by the side of the coil, and then again a dip on the departing side of the coil. Mostly because the magnet is inducing just one side of the coil instead of both sides one after another like when the magnet passes the face of a coil. As the magnet approaches the sideways coil, the magnets fields that are out there in front of the magnet could be atracted to the end of the coil core and actually cut a bit of the other side of the coil, and same on the departure.
A lot of this is why I believe in field cutting of the windings vs E field being the actor on inducing coils with a magnet and such.
Mags
Quote from: CITFTA on 2019.02.05, 22:59:17
[/glow]
Because the polarity is dependent on the direction of the magnet. Approaching gives one polarity and receding gives the opposite polarity. If you want to see a DC signal from a magnet passing the coil it is easy to do that. Turn the magnet so that as it approaches the coil either the north or south side of the magnet nears the coil. You need to have the magnet oriented so that as the magnet passes the coil the opposite polarity of the magnet will be the side moving away from the coil. In other words the block wall of the magnet needs to be perpendicular to the direction of travel of the magnet as it passes over the coil.
Indeed Carroll O0
Much like when a car is comming toward you,the pitch of the sound increases,and as it moves away from you,the pitch of the sound decreases.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.05, 22:26:00
There is also the fact that passing a magnet over a conductor results in an alternating voltage-but why ?.
Should it not result in a DC voltage half wave sine ? .
I know you asked about voltage, but...
If the wire has no resistance and is closed in a loop*, then the current induced in that loop never reverses ( e.g.: it could have the shape of a half of a sine wave or half of a triangular wave, etc... ) :o
So in your "passing magnet" scenario, the voltage reverses across an open conductor, but in a perfectly closed conductor the current never reverses - Madness !!!
*
Assuming there is zero current flowing in that loop, when the magnet is initially absent.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.06, 01:04:58
I know you asked about voltage, but...
If the wire has no resistance and is closed in a loop*, then the current induced in that loop never reverses ( e.g.: it could have the shape of a half of a sine wave or half of a triangular wave, etc... ) :o
So in your "passing magnet" scenario, the voltage reverses across an open conductor, but in a perfectly closed conductor the current never reverses - Madness !!!
*Assuming there is zero current flowing in that loop, when the magnet is initially absent.
Well we dont need super conducting wire or conductor to achieve a continual current flow in a loop,as we can achieve this with standard materials we have today--very easy to do.
Brad
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 19:29:21
Nope, it is a T.O.E. after all...and a good one, too.
"Good" for what?
A theory is necessary to:
- explain observations that are not explained by current theories
- synthesize one or more theories into a more general theory that can predict new phenomena
What observations would be explained by this TOE and not by current theories?
What new observations verifiable by experimentation does this TOE predict?
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.05, 14:37:04
Yes, the video explains well what happens when the charges move, but I think what he is asking is what happens when the charges do not move with respect to the conductor thus there is no current flow in the conductor ...yet the voltage is still there at its edges. A Currentless voltage.
I know the answer is relative motion, but from the video it is not readily apparent motion of what, unless one is willing to accept the notion that motion does not require an object for its definition, as nothing of the sort appears in the basic equation of motion s/t.
Not clear to me, can you be more explicit if my answer is out of line?
The issue is not a current flow relative to a conductor, but the flow of charges relative to other charges, and we must take into account the two kinds of charge when necessary. An electron beam also creates a magnetic field due to current, seen as a transverse electric field by other charges moving with respect to the beam. But unlike a current in a conductor, there will also be the classical electric field due to the fact that the beam is not neutral, there are only negative charges.
If there is no current flow in a conductor and the conductor is neutral, there is no voltage relative to other neutral conductors. I don't see the point.
If a conductor is moving in a magnetic field and there is no circuit, the same electric is viewed from the charges in the conductor as in the case they are in a circuit. The charges will move but they will be quickly balanced and stopped by the coulomb field from the nuclei, and they will stay in a new equilibrium as in a polarized dielectric. So there will be a voltage between the two ends and no current.
Going back to Brad's earlier remarks
QuoteWe know how strong the magnetic field of a neo permanent magnet can be.
We also know that in order for us to create a field of equal strength to that of a neo permanent magnet,we would need a good size coil,and a lot of current. We also know that the flow current creates heat.
But not if you use a superconductor. MRI magnets don't create heat.
QuoteSo one has to wonder as to why,with a field so strong,the humble neo permanent magnet creates no heat what so ever ???
You can create a magnetic field if you had a charged sphere and you spin the sphere. That does not in itself create heat if you ignore friction. There are a lot of spinning charges inside the neo magnet that create the field.
QuoteWe should also note that since the PM needs to have a continual flow of current in order for it to be a PM,that it must be creating it's own energy to do so. This would equate to a self running device
Indeed those spinning charges are a self running device. It can be shown that those spinning charges
can deliver energy (obtained from the active vacuum) but they can also feed energy back (into that active vacuum). After many years trying to find ways of extracting energy from ferromagnetic spins and not giving it back I have reached the conclusion that it needs
additional spins to be supplied and that takes us into the area of spintronics. Magnetized Fe is one of the materials of choice for supplying spin-polarized electrons, so I have come up with a form of transformer that uses spin-polarized electrons obtained by the presence of permanent magnets, and injects these into the transformer laminations, that injection taking the place of the primary coil. This seems to offer the possibility of an OU transformer, but that has yet to be determined experimentally. The attached image shows the scheme. I have a paper going into the theory that needs some correction, I'll publish that here soon.
Smudge
Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.
Well,we need to be looking for examples where a continual flow of energy can exist withon a system. Once that is found and understood,we then work out as to how it can be adapted to work and provide a continual source of energy.
So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).
Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.
So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.06, 23:30:30
Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.
Well,we need to be looking for examples where a continual flow of energy can exist withon a system. Once that is found and understood,we then work out as to how it can be adapted to work and provide a continual source of energy.
So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).
Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.
So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.
Brad
I believe Russ' has the longest public record of holding a charge? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFycNY_mNBk
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.07, 06:20:10
I believe Russ' has the longest public record of holding a charge? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFycNY_mNBk
Yes he dose,although he mistakenly calls it the TPU .
I have carried out a lot of testing on the PMH.
Some things i have found--
1-the magnetic field strength holding the keeper on is the same with or without the coil energized.
2-ferrite that holds no residual magnetism works just as good as steel or iron--so that dismisses the theory of it being residual magnetism that keeps the magnetic field going once the current is disconnected from the coil.
What if we used SS,and found that the keeper was still magnetically attached to the U core ?--what would that mean ?.
Brad
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.06, 09:18:05
"Good" for what?
A theory is necessary to:
- explain observations that are not explained by current theories
- synthesize one or more theories into a more general theory that can predict new phenomena
What observations would be explained by this TOE and not by current theories?
What new observations verifiable by experimentation does this TOE predict?
In order not to stray off-topic, I have moved your question
somewhere else (http://reciprocal.systems/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=611).
We do not want to annoy TinMan with a talk about T.O.E.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.06, 23:30:30
Some might be thinking-what has all this got to do with the TPU ?.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.06, 04:19:49
Well we dont need super conducting wire or conductor to achieve a continual current flow in a loop,as we can achieve this with standard materials we have today--very easy to do.
Do you mean by connecting a battery to the loop of resistive wire ?
If "yes" then the flow is not continual, but only as long as the battery lasts.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.07, 07:43:35
Do you mean by connecting a battery to the loop of resistive wire ?
If "yes" then the flow is not continual, but only as long as the battery lasts.
No,i'm talking about the PMH.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 12:43:14
No,i'm talking about the PMH.
There is a continuous electric current flow in the PMH ?
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.07, 13:10:12
There is a continuous electric current flow in the PMH ?
No,a continuous magnetic current flow.
As the material used is ferrite,which is non conductive,then the flow must be magnetic and not electric.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 13:18:33
No,a continuous magnetic current flow.
Ah, please call it "magnetic flux" or just "flux" because every time you use the word "current" alone, people (including me) will assume "electric current".
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 13:18:33
As the material used is ferrite,which is non conductive,then the flow must be magnetic and not electric.
Yes, it would figure...
What is this ferrite PMH holding?
P.S.
Some ferrites are electrically conductive...
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.07, 13:48:35
Yes, it would figure...
P.S.
Some ferrites are electrically conductive...
QuoteAh, please call it "magnetic flux" or just "flux" because every time you use the word "current" alone, people (including me) will assume "electric current".
Well as an electric current is needed in order to keep ferrite magnetic(which was not a PM to start with),then i guess an electric current must exist-right?
QuoteWhat is this ferrite PMH holding?
Not sure what you mean.
You do know what the PMH is-dont you?
I guess the keeper could be any magnetic material you like,which once charged,the PMH will hold.
Brad
Hi Brad,
First I read about the PMH here: http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm (http://www.keelynet.com/energy/emery.htm) What was strange for me is that Matt Emery placed the Ammeter directly onto the top of the transformer core. See the photos on his setup near the very bottom of the link by scrolling down.
When the meter is placed onto the wooden table (photo on the left), the needle is just in the center zero position as it should be (that meter has a center-zero mechanism, the zero Amper is in the middle of the scale).
He happened to place the meter onto the top of the transformer core and when he switched off the charger, the needle still showed 6 Amper current.
For me this means he was not aware of the sensitive nature of the magnetic balance such moving coil meters have in order to operate properly. To have a linear DC scale, a homogeneous magnetic field should be maintained in the gap where the moving coil turns and deflects the needle. When this magnetic field is influenced or disturbed from the outside as it surely happened in Matt's case from the very closeness of the iron core of the transformer, the needle did deflect without any current. I found this behaviour with my such analog meters too.
So to say the least: there was no 6 A current flowing through the meter (hence no current in the circuit) when he disconnected the cables as he wrote. Should he has lifted up the meter from the top of the transformer core, the needle would have returned to zero.
Please watch these two videos, maybe you have seen them: Transformer core tests, Part 1 and 2 and confront it with the PMH. Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbQXnXK6Xc) Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY)
What I think of the PMH: until further proof is shown on the contrary, it "works" due to remanent magnetism in the core.
I think that so called magnetically good soft irons like ferrite or hipersil cores, when they are in a magnetically closed circuit, will have their domains maintain in the direction the huge input current pulse sets them. Notice I write 'huge current pulses', meaning several Ampers like 6-10 A or higher because if a PMH has 1-2 Ohm coil winding and excited from a 12 V battery, about that high currents will be involved, this can be a heavy "shock" for the domains.
And when the keeper is removed the domains can return to their earlier position i.e. the core becomes unmagnetized (and the coil on the PMH senses the rearrangement of the domains, in the form of kinda flyback pulse). With ferrite or hipersil cores a PMH may not be able to keep magnetism as long as say a PMH made of normal transformer lamination or steel or cast iron can.
Gyula
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 14:00:00
You do know what the PMH is-don't you?
"Permanent Magnetic Holder", which means that it is holding
something, so I am asking "what" is it holding?
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 14:00:00
I guess the keeper could be any magnetic material you like,which once charged,the PMH will hold.
Does it sill work if the "keeper" is a piece of another low-remanence ferrite?
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.07, 14:00:00
Well as an electric current is needed in order to keep ferrite magnetic(which was not a PM to start with),then i guess an electric current must exist-right?
Not if the magnetic remanence of the PMH
or the object that it is holding, is not eliminated as the cause of the attraction.
P.S.
Ferrites still exhibit remanence, albeit a low one. The remanent field has a harder time sustaining itself, if it is not a part of a closed magnetic circuit.
Breaking the magnetic circuit, such as removing the "keeper", in many cases is sufficient to demagnetize the remanent field, creating the illusion that this magnetic circuit did not exhibit any remanent field even when it was closed.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.06, 23:30:30
So here is another example i consider to be a continual flow of energy--> the PMH (perpetual motion holder).
Some say it is just residual magnetism that is holding the keeper in place,which of course is wrong.
So who here wants to have a stab at explaning the workings of the PMH ?.
Brad
All magnetic materials, even ferrites, have hysteresis. That is, when all the atomic dipoles are aligned due to H field from the current in the coil, when you turn the current off so that H becomes zero the dipoles remain aligned. You have to supply some negative current to get the magnetic B field to drop and then reverse to the opposite polarity. You will find many examples of the BH hysteresis loop so not worth putting one here. What many people don't realize is that characteristic only applies to complete magnetic circuits such as ring cores, so all material measurements are done on such rings. If the ring is broken (has an air gap) then there is a mmf drop across that gap, just like an voltage drop across a resistor. That mmf drop yields a negative value compared to the positive Ni value of the driving coil. So if a material with a very narrow BH loop (such as ferrite) suddenly gets an air gap (because the keeper has been pulled off) the negative H from that mmf drop takes the material into the second quadrant beyond that narrow loop so the magnetization drops off. For materials with a wide BH loop (such as PMs) the mmf drop across the air is not enough to take the material to the point where magnetization drops, so they retain their magnetization (which is why they are called permanent magnets).
The perpetual currents that supply the magnetization are the electron orbits and/or spins that are responsible for the magnetization. Below are two pages taken from Nussbaum's "Electromagnetic Theory for Engineers and Scientists" showing the equivalent solenoid for a PM. Also shown are internal current circulations, and for uniform magnetization the currents for adjacent loops cancel leaving only an effective surface current that can be modeled as a close-wound solenoid current. Of course those currents are perpetual.
Smudge
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.07, 17:24:53
Does it sill work if the "keeper" is a piece of another low-remanence ferrite
Yup.... ;)
https://youtu.be/dWXMxAOFW-w
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.02.07, 17:55:21
Yup.... ;)
https://youtu.be/dWXMxAOFW-w
Oh, so we had this discussion before ;)
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.02.07, 17:51:10
So if a material with a very narrow BH loop (such as ferrite) suddenly gets an air gap (because the keeper has been pulled off) the negative H from that mmf drop takes the material into the second quadrant beyond that narrow loop so the magnetization drops off. For materials with a wide BH loop (such as PMs) the mmf drop across the air is not enough to take the material to the point where magnetization drops, so they retain their magnetization (which is why they are called permanent magnets).
Thank you Smudge.
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.02.07, 17:55:21
Yup.... ;)
https://youtu.be/dWXMxAOFW-w
Hi Graham
The reason it kept dropping is not because the cores weren't ligned up properly,it was because you were using an AC current,where you were switching off the power supply when the current was at the zero point or close to. If you use DC, then it will still work even if the two core halves have only half there surfaces touching.
The fact that the bottom half of the core did drop sometimes is proof that it is not residual magnetism that holds them together,such as it might do using steel cores,where residual magnetism is the steel retaining some magnetism after the loop is broken.
Brad
Well Brad, here's the thing....
We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!
I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.
Cheers Graham.
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.02.08, 13:41:50
Well Brad, here's the thing....
We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!
I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.
Cheers Graham.
Ok,well that is odd,as the PMH in your video would have either been held together while the current was flowing one way or the other. So regardless of which way the current was flowing,it became stuck together with a current flowing in one direction only--DC.
Put 1 single diode on your coil,so as only a pulsed DC current flows,and see if the two halves will hold together.
There is no reason they will not if they held together using an AC current.
Im putting my boots back on,and heading out to the workshop,as im sure that i used ferrite cores all those years ago when carrying out tests on this for weeks on end.
Brad
Quote from: Grumage on 2019.02.08, 13:41:50
Well Brad, here's the thing....
We could never get the two halves to hold using pure DC no matter the current involved!
I'm 100% with you on your explanation but we must have played with it for much longer than on video. Fact is, DC didn't hold whatsoever and AC only held if the two halves were perfectly aligned.
Cheers Graham.
OK,a WTF moment here.
Seems you are correct Grum,and i was wrong,as i too cannot get the ferrite halves to stick together using a DC current,or a halve wave rectified DC current,but can using an AC current. ???
So,using a 50Hz AC current,it takes a few go's to get the ferrite halves to stick.
Raising the frequency to 100 Hz,it only takes a go or to at the switch to get them to stick.
At 200Hz,they stick together every time i turn the switch off.
So it seems the higher in frequency we go,the easier it is to get the two ferrite halves to stick.
Any of the EE guys want to explain this one ?
Good find Grum O0
Brad.
Ion
I refreshed the page ,and your comment about putting a diode across the coil was gone ???
Giving that idea some thought,i wouldnt have thought that the inductive kickback wouldnt be an issue,as the current continues to flow in the same direction during the kickback part of the cycle,meaning that the induced magnetic field would also remain the same.
But anyway,i will give it a try.
Brad.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.08, 16:54:13
Ion
I refreshed the page ,and your comment about putting a diode across the coil was gone ???
Giving that idea some thought,i wouldnt have thought that the inductive kickback would be an issue,as the current continues to flow in the same direction during the kickback part of the cycle,meaning that the induced magnetic field would also remain the same.
But anyway,i will give it a try.
Brad.
Hi Brad
I am looking around for some cores to try this out on, but find the stuff I have doesn't work in any of the modes talked about, even AC. I didn't want to post something I hadn't tested first so I deleted it.
Yes, the current tries to flow in the same direction, but can't as the circuit is opened so the current is now drastically reduced when the arc (spark) is extinguished at the moment the circuit opens. During the exact moment of circuit break the coil voltage goes sky high (current goes to near zero) and oscillates, probably demagnetizing the core.
Think old school ignition circuits for autos, the field collapses because the current path is broken by the points. The rapid decay of flux due to lack of a current path induces into the HV winding and establishes a new current path in the spark plug gap.
The idea was to keep the current flowing in the same direction with the diode and allowing a soft landing for the flux. The diode was to be placed across the coil and kept there while the power supply is momentarily placed across the diode, plus on anode neg on cathode.
As for AC working better than DC, it is probably the soft flux landing as the current goes to zero, but won't be sure till I test it.
Your HF observation is interesting and needs to be tested further. I wonder if the HF can create a preferred bias in the domains?
This would be new to me if it did. There are probably other explanations, but this eludes me ATM
Critical and focused observation is the key to discovering new things.
FWIW, I found a piece of steel lying around in the shape of a large U, 1 1/4 x 1/2 x 4" long.
It had a very weak magnet effect so I totally erased it using a VHS bulk tape eraser. When finished it couldn't pick up a pin.
Using a diode across the coil, I can magnetize the piece from DC very strongly in either polarity with a quick tap to a very small 12V battery.
It does not drop the keeper, and even when the keeper is removed, it attracts it strongly again.
I can reverse the coil leads and a quick tap demagnetizes it, a long series of tap restores full strength.
I will do some static Gauss measurements vs current pulse to see if I can get a handle on this.
I suspect the piece of steel was originally made of a magnet grade material, but very old so may predate Alnico.
So a soft steel is what is needed for these tests, not old school magnet grade material.
However this could lead to some interesting experiments. The fact that this piece is so easily strongly magnetized in either direction after complete demagnetization may lend some credence to the work of Floyd Sweet's VTA. Could it be there is a domain memory effect that can be utilized? You may wish to experiment with this.
I'm sure this is well explored in the everyday magnet makers knowledge base, as it is the usual method for making magnets, but who knows what other discoveries may lurk in Floyd's process.
author=ion link=topic=3710.msg72201#msg72201 date=1549653409]
QuoteFWIW, I found a piece of steel lying around in the shape of a large U, 1 1/4 x 1/2 x 4" long.
It had a very weak magnet effect so I totally erased it using a VHS bulk tape eraser. When finished it couldn't pick up a pin.
Ok,i tried placing a diode across the coil,so as the current can continue to flow through the coil once the source is disconnected,and it made no difference--still cant get the two halves to stick together.
But,using an AC current,and as Graham showed,i can get the two halves to stick together.
Remember,this is only with using ferrite core halves,as when using steel there is no problem at all to get the keeper to stick.
QuoteUsing a diode across the coil, I can magnetize the piece from DC very strongly in either polarity with a quick tap to a very small 12V battery.
It does not drop the keeper, and even when the keeper is removed, it attracts it strongly again.
I can reverse the coil leads and a quick tap demagnetizes it, a long series of tap restores full strength.
Yes,this is how i magnetise my screwdrivers when need be.
QuoteHowever this could lead to some interesting experiments. The fact that this piece is so easily strongly magnetized in either direction after complete demagnetization may lend some credence to the work of Floyd Sweet's VTA. Could it be there is a domain memory effect that can be utilized? You may wish to experiment with this. I'm sure this is well explored in the everyday magnet makers knowledge base, as it is the usual method for making magnets, but who knows what other discoveries may lurk in Floyd's process.
I have never looked into Floyd's Sweet's device,so i may go have a quick look now.
Brad
Brad said:
QuoteI have never looked into Floyd's Sweet's device,so i may go have a quick look now.
As you are a believer that energy can come from magnets, you surely should study all you can on the Floyd Sweet and Hans Coler devices.
Believe it or not Chris Sykes (EMJunkie) did some very good research on the Sweet device (before he became a provocateur), which is on his website HYIQ.org. Like many OU devices it remains an enigma with no successful replications that I know of.
It involved demagnetizing a particular type of magnetic material, then conditioning in such a way that the domains were easily flipped between states with a small control signal, if I recall correctly.
There are also many good papers on the Coler device floating around, I believe Smudge studied it deeply.
I will retry the experiments with ferrites, but as yet I can't get any that I had on hand to stick, AC or DC. Will look around a bit more. From what did you salvage your ferrites of interest?
Regards
Thinking out loud :D
author=ion link=topic=3710.msg72240#msg72240 date=1549720128]
QuoteAs you are a believer that energy can come from magnets, you surely should study all you can on the Floyd Sweet and Hans Coler devices.
I will now. O0
QuoteBelieve it or not Chris Sykes (EMJunkie) did some very good research on the Sweet device (before he became a provocateur), which is on his website HYIQ.org. Like many OU devices it remains an enigma with no successful replications that I know of.
I just dont know why Chris went pear shaped after some tried to explain the difference between AC and DC coupling on a scope.
QuoteIt involved demagnetizing a particular type of magnetic material, then conditioning in such a way that the domains were easily flipped between states with a small control signal, if I recall correctly.
Alnico magnets are very easy to flip the magnetic polarity in them.
QuoteI will retry the experiments with ferrites, but as yet I can't get any that I had on hand to stick, AC or DC. Will look around a bit more. From what did you salvage your ferrites of interest?
I got mine from old CRT computer monitor flyback transformers--like Gum's.
Brad
ION
Are there any threads here on OUR in regards to floyd sweets VTA ?
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.09, 15:59:00
ION
Are there any threads here on OUR in regards to floyd sweets VTA ?
Brad
If you do a search here for "Floyd Sweet VTA" there are lots of hits but I didn't find a dedicated thread. Maybe I missed it.
As for the cores, I'll find some of those as I have lots of flyback transformers lying around. Has anyone tried yoke ferrites?
Does this help?
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.02.09, 16:29:59
Does this help?
Smudge
Thank you Smudge, a fairly thorough paper on the device. I figured you would know a lot about this device.
Do you have any conclusions?, as the TVQ Misiolek group thinks it may have been faked.
Ref. to TVQ group's thoughts on the VTA:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2704.0;attach=15736
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.02.09, 16:29:59
Does this help?
Smudge
No,not much.
Already looked at that paper.
From what i can make out,a block magnet has coils wrapped around each face-length,width,and height.
This is to flip the field to either the length sides,widths sides,or height sides--correct?
Then we have to have this barium ferrite magnet,and condition it,so as the poles can easily be flipped.
Seems like a whole lot of mucking around to me.
I will draw up a much simple version,using !off the shelf! parts,and no conditioning needed.
I'll get the parts needed,and one of you EE guys can design the simple switching circuit.
We will need an AC square wave,where the pulse width on each half of the cycle can be altered--say from 2% to 30%,where the positive and negative pulse width alters the same percentage when you turn the pot.
The frequency will need to be around the 50-100Hz range--a starting point.
We do not need these special conditioned magnets.
All we need is some Alnico and Neodymium magnets used together to get the same effect.
Brad
Just use a good quality audio amplifier of sufficient power output and your FG driving it. Do be careful to use proper fusing or current limiting or you may fry the amp. A car power amp would also work well.
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.09, 17:28:30
Just use a good quality audio amplifier of sufficient power output and your FG driving it. Do be careful to use proper fusing or current limiting or you may fry the amp. A car power amp would also work well.
I do not think my FG can have(for example) a 5% duty cycle on each half of the cycle.
If i make the top have(positive)5%,then the bottom half(reverse current) will be 95%.
Brad
Ok,below is my version of a solid state reluctance generator.
Thought's ?
Brad
Fixed O0
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.09, 17:40:43
I do not think my FG can have(for example) a 5% duty cycle on each half of the cycle.
If i make the top have(positive)5%,then the bottom half(reverse current) will be 95%.
Brad
In that case to keep it simple , use a differentiator (C-R) from the square out of your FG. This should give you nice sharp pulses and you can adjust the duty by changing the C-R time constant.
I couldn't guess if your idea will work or not but hey, give it a go, nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Here is a video i found in relation to switching the poles on an Alnico magnet when alongside a Neo magnet,by Robert Murray Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4YD8Nvyfa4
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 01:59:11
Here is a video i found in relation to switching the poles on an Alnico magnet when alongside a Neo magnet,by Robert Murray Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4YD8Nvyfa4
Brad
And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate.
You can read Robert's comment below my video.
https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y
Cheers
Luc
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.09, 17:41:59
Ok,below is my version of a solid state reluctance generator.
Thought's ?
Brad
Fixed O0
Using an alnico magnet where it is in your diagram, is it that since it is magnetized, it pulls more of the neo flux in that direction than to the L1 leg of the magnetic circuit? And then the pulse coil temporarily reverses the alnico so that more flux of the neo goes to the L1 leg?
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2019.02.10, 02:31:02
Mags
QuoteUsing an alnico magnet where it is in your diagram, is it that since it is magnetized, it pulls more of the neo flux in that direction than to the L1 leg of the magnetic circuit?
Yes
QuoteAnd then the pulse coil temporarily reverses the alnico so that more flux of the neo goes to the L1 leg?
No
Once a pulse is sent to the coil around the alnico magnet,the magnetic domains are reversed in the magnet,and the magnet retains it's flipped field without current flowing through the coil around the magnet..
You then need another pulse of current in the opposite direction to once again flip the alnico's
magnetic field.
Brad
Quote from: gotoluc on 2019.02.10, 02:25:57
And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate.
You can read Robert's comment below my video.
https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y
Cheers
Luc
Yes,just like that Luc.
If you still have that setup,all you need to do now is wrap a coil around the keeper you placed on top as your flux bridge.
Wish i had me some of those large Alnico magnets like your's.
They don't have them on AU ebay,just small ones.
Brad
Quote from: gotoluc on 2019.02.10, 02:25:57
And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate.
You can read Robert's comment below my video.
https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y
Cheers
Luc
Hi Luc
Nice demo video of the operation of the flux switcher.
Question: what thickness are the yellow spacers and what is the material made of?
I would be curious to know what effect a pulse of various energy levels is required to just switch the AlNiCo, without the Neos in the circuit, and what Gauss level you get at the poles vs energy in.
Then compare that to the equivalent steady state power required just using a piece of soft steel in place of the AlNiCo.
I'm wondering if pulse energy could be made very sharp from a much higher voltage source with less duty cycle, and what effect that would have.
Regards,
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 03:03:28
Yes,just like that Luc.
If you still have that setup,all you need to do now is wrap a coil around the keeper you placed on top as your flux bridge.
Wish i had me some of those large Alnico magnets like your's.
They don't have them on AU ebay,just small ones.
Brad
What devices would alnico most likely be used in?
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.10, 03:48:57
What devices would alnico most likely be used in?
Hi Jim
Large and small speakers of the 40's, 50's, 60's and D'Arsonval meters movements or large to small and even toy PM motors to name a few. Anything before the ceramic magnet era.
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.10, 03:42:00
Hi Luc
Nice demo video of the operation of the flux switcher.
Question: what thickness are the yellow spacers and what is the material made of?
I would be curious to know what effect a pulse of various energy levels is required to just switch the AlNiCo, without the Neos in the circuit, and what Gauss level you get at the poles vs energy in.
Then compare that to the equivalent steady state power required just using a piece of soft steel in place of the AlNiCo.
I'm wondering if pulse energy could be made very sharp from a much higher voltage source with less duty cycle, and what effect that would have.
Regards,
I believe the spacers Luc used were actually ferrite magnets them self.
I agree that this should be looked into further,as i believe it takes very little energy to flip the poles of an alnico magnet.
One way to do it would be to use a cap,dump the cap across the flipping coil,and keep increasing the voltage of the cap until the poles flipped. We can then work out how many joules of energy is required to flip the poles.
Brad
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.10, 04:06:46
Hi Jim
Large and small speakers of the 40's, 50's, 60's and D'Arsonval meters movements or large to small and even toy PM motors to name a few. Anything before the ceramic magnet era.
excellent thanks mate. Ok think I have one. Might be overkill for the job tho.
Wow it's surprising how easily the poles flip just using a ferrite magnet
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.10, 08:33:25
Wow it's surprising how easily the poles flip just using a ferrite magnet
Hey Jim
What did you get the magnet out of ?
And yes,the poles in an alnico can be flipped easily,which tells me that it would not require much electrical power to do the same job.
Brad
I think I'm flipping at 50ma 6v. I'm current limiting at 50ma. Getting spikes of 300V plus. No current measurement yet. Pretty sure it's alnico as it's from a 60s speaker. It's a pretty rough setup though. I'm pulsing using a reed straight off the power supply & a MOT coil . I keep adding to this post but I forgot to mention that the mag orientation works the way Luc had it. If the neo is between the keeper and the alnico, the keeper will magnetise. By having the alnico in the middle, the keeper detaches. Got it to spike as low as 3v 50ma. Spikes are lower though, around 120v so maybe it's not flipping completely.
Quote from: gotoluc on 2019.02.10, 02:25:57
And here is a video from 2016 of a test device I made using Roberts idea and going further to a flux gate.
You can read Robert's comment below my video.
https://youtu.be/0VlhMI5tv5Y
Cheers
Luc
Luc
I have watched your video again,and if you still have the bit's lying around,then i have a simple experiment for you.
If you charge that cap you used in the video to the 57 volt's you got from the flyback,and are able to flip the alnico's magnetic field using the energy stored in that cap at 57 volt's,then your onto something O0
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.09, 17:02:50
I'll get the parts needed,and one of you EE guys can design the simple switching circuit.
We will need an AC square wave,where the pulse width on each half of the cycle can be altered--say from 2% to 30%,where the positive and negative pulse width alters the same percentage when you turn the pot.
The frequency will need to be around the 50-100Hz range--a starting point.
Does your rectangular AC waveform need to have 3 levels, like this ?:
+V, open, -V
...or like this?:
+V, 0V, -V
...where the +V and -V have the same but adjustable pulse widths
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.10, 11:11:34
Does your rectangular AC waveform need to have 3 levels, like this ?:
+V, open, -V
...or like this?:
+V, 0V, -V
...where the +V and -V have the same but adjustable pulse widths
The one highlighted O0
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 11:17:20
The one highlighted O0
Do you realize the +V,0V,-V is a 3-level waveform during which the coil is effectively shorted when the +V or -V pulses are absent ?
Why? A: Because when 1 side of the coil is connected to 0V and the other side is connected to 0V, too, then it means a "short" for the coil.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.10, 11:47:15
Do you realize the +V,0V,-V is a 3-level waveform during which the coil is effectively shorted when the +V or -V pulses are absent ?
Why? A: Because when 1 side of the coil is connected to 0V and the other side is connected to 0V, too, then it means a "short" for the coil.
No,it means that the current may continue to flow through the coil,thus aiding in the poll flip.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 12:47:17
No,it means that the current may continue to flow through the coil,thus aiding in the poll flip.
Yes, shorting the coil helps to maintain any preexisting current flow in it.
I just did not know, if this is what you wanted.
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 10:46:26
Luc
I have watched your video again,and if you still have the bit's lying around,then i have a simple experiment for you.
If you charge that cap you used in the video to the 57 volt's you got from the flyback,and are able to flip the alnico's magnetic field using the energy stored in that cap at 57 volt's,then your onto something O0
Brad
Hi Brad,
Yes, I still have to components to put it back together.
However, I did mention it took over a Joule of power to re-magnetize and that is no where close as to what is collected from the flyback.
If only we had super conductors we would easily be able to prove Overunity, since creating a magnetic field is free if you have no resistance.
I don't understand why electrical engineering don't consider this fact which whould blow away the conservation of energy BS.
Cheers
Luc
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.10, 12:47:17
No,it means that the current may continue to flow through the coil,thus aiding in the poll flip.
Brad
Like using the coil to maintain its magnetic field after the input is disconnected. Used diodes on a pulse motor for this purpose and was able to shorten the coils power in on time and get the same speed on the rotor. We can collect the collapsing field currents or feed them back through the coil to accelerate the rotor to a greater speed.
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2019.02.10, 20:04:10
Like using the coil to maintain its magnetic field after the input is disconnected. Used diodes on a pulse motor for this purpose and was able to shorten the coils power in on time and get the same speed on the rotor. We can collect the collapsing field currents or feed them back through the coil to accelerate the rotor to a greater speed.
Mags
Some in the past had thought that when we put current across the coil and build the mag field, that when we disconnect the input that the field reverses poles during the collapse period. Not so. the only thing that changes is the fields expansion direction, to a contraction direction.
I think MH argued that with me once. lol
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2019.02.10, 20:11:22
Some in the past had thought that when we put current across the coil and build the mag field, that when we disconnect the input that the field reverses poles during the collapse period. Not so. the only thing that changes is the fields expansion direction, to a contraction direction.
I think MH argued that with me once. lol
Mags
I am surprised MH would argue that point.
Yes,when the current flowing into the coil is interrupted,the current through the coil will continue to flow in the same direction,but the voltage across the coil will invert.
Brad
Quote from: gotoluc on 2019.02.10, 19:19:47
Hi Brad,
Yes, I still have to components to put it back together.
However, I did mention it took over a Joule of power to re-magnetize and that is no where close as to what is collected from the flyback.
If only we had super conductors we would easily be able to prove Overunity, since creating a magnetic field is free if you have no resistance.
I don't understand why electrical engineering don't consider this fact which whould blow away the conservation of energy BS.
Cheers
Luc
Hi Luc
The Alnico magnet dose not actually become demagnetised,it is actually flipping the poles. So when you say !remagnetised,it's actually flipping the poles back.
I do have an idea in regards to your big setup there,that i believe will result in more stored energy than what was needed to flip the poles.
I will draw it up for you.
I would put it together myself,but those size alnico magnets are not available on Oz ebay.
Brad
Ferrites behave differently. They don't flip back. At least the one I'm looking at does not. I'v left nasty polarity imperfections on it's surface with a neo . That's it under ferrofilm after a couple of hours . The neos were only on it for a few secs. Thinking about making some custom ferro mags now.
Brad & Verpies, Mags referenced in the Non-sense thread https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Signal-Generator-PWM-Pulse-Frequency-Duty-Cycle-Adjustable-Module-LCD-Display-1Hz-150Khz-3-3V-30V/32835541668.html. I'll be getting some anyway but thought they maybe useful here.
Ok,powering on with the topic subject O0
Huge news coming soon O0
As a teaser--
I have found 7 people living in my states capital city that were involved in the TPU in it's infant days.
One just so happened to move from Perth(our capital city),down to my home town in Bunbury,and lives here now.
He was the head of the investment group put together to actually buy the TPU.
His name is Trevor Osborne,and man dose this guy have a history ;)
He is one of the head honcho's of the world harmony foundation.
One of the key goals for this !world harmony foundation! is to seek and invest in new technologies for the production of electrical power. He also happens to be one of the guys that was present for 2 demonstrations of the TPU here in my states capital city.
He also invented a highly efficient alternator,and opened up a production company in perth to produce these alternators.
I have found his facebook account,and have sent him a message.
But looking at his profile,seems he has not been active since around december 2017 :(
Looking at his picture,i am sure i have seen him at my workplace,and i think my boss may actually be friends with him--which i will ask tomorrow of course.
Here is his facebook profile.
https://www.facebook.com/trevor.osborne.549/timeline?lst=584740904%3A1253051280%3A1549890892
Now,turns out that Stan Deyo was also right in there among them,and had played a part in putting together the investment team. I have spoken to Stan on the phone on a number of occasions some years back,regarding his VIA drive technology,which was in the time i owned my own boat building company,and was interested in Stan's VIA drive for marine propulsion applications.
I have also located Garth Harvey (who was Brian Collins biggest investor) ,and of course lost his investment, and sent him a message,asking him if i could ask him some questions about the whole TPU saga--hope to hear from him as well.
Now,i will hold my tongue,and not reveal my source until i know for sure,but word has it tonight that the TPU was actually another device that SM stole and renamed. Looking at the pictures and design that this other source gave me tonight,i think he might be onto it O0
Anyway,more to come as i get intouch with these people--if i can.
Exciting time's
I mean,one of the biggest players in the early days of the TPU live's right here in my city,and he has seen it working at demo's twice-->how cool is that.
Brad
Small world Brad, hope all turns out well.
It makes you wonder, if any one of these people has the details why have they not used them!!
I also have a friend in Aus who once was an investor in my work, has stayed in my house here several times, he is involved in the extraction of precious metals from coal slag heaps and the rest is used to make a very strong cement. I will get in touch with him, can't remember exactly where he lives atm.
Regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.11, 00:18:22
Hi Luc
The Alnico magnet dose not actually become demagnetised,it is actually flipping the poles. So when you say !remagnetised,it's actually flipping the poles back.
I do have an idea in regards to your big setup there,that i believe will result in more stored energy than what was needed to flip the poles.
I will draw it up for you.
I would put it together myself,but those size alnico magnets are not available on Oz ebay.
Brad
Well I guess we just have a different way of explaining what happens.
Lets say the Alnico top of the magnet is North and the bottom half is South. I then slide it in the center of a coil to flip the poles, however, I reduce the current pulse by about half of what it takes to flip the poles. The result will be a neutralized Alnico magnet with no poles (demagnetize).
So the reality when you flip the poles of an Alnico magnet is, the current pulse needs to be longer then just to neutralize it. So the Alnico magnet actually goes through a de-magnetization to re-magnetization cycle to do what you call flipping the poles.
Looking forward to the idea you have.
My experience of magnet pole flipping or bucking is, it comes at a large cost (CEMF) to the otherwise free magnetic field and why I'm working on designs that isolates and or compliments (work with it) the magnetic field.
Regards
Luc
Quote from: gotoluc on 2019.02.11, 15:34:06
Well I guess we just have a different way of explaining what happens.
Lets say the Alnico top of the magnet is North and the bottom half is South. I then slide it in the center of a coil to flip the poles, however, I reduce the current pulse by about half of what it takes to flip the poles. The result will be a neutralized Alnico magnet with no poles (demagnetize).
So the reality when you flip the poles of an Alnico magnet is, the current pulse needs to be longer then just to neutralize it. So the Alnico magnet actually goes through a de-magnetization to re-magnetization cycle to do what you call flipping the poles.
Looking forward to the idea you have.
My experience of magnet pole flipping or bucking is, it comes at a large cost (CEMF) to the otherwise free magnetic field and why I'm working on designs that isolates and or compliments (work with it) the magnetic field.
Regards
Luc
Hi Luc
Here is an interesting experiment: arrange your pulse generator so that it puts a known millijoule pulse of some value into the coil, with about one second or more between pulses so you have time to observe, then observe the strength of the Gauss field at one of the poles with a Gauss meter.
Now does the Gauss field incrementally build with each pulse, or is an increased level of millijoules required to bring the magnet to the next Gauss level?.
I find that I get much stronger effect if I use a flyback diode right across the coil, as the circulating current is used for magnetization rather than being collected elsewhere e.g. in a capacitor or resistor.
Also a "keeper" helps to increase the strength per pulse.
There is a large number of AlNiCo types as well as other materials so it is hard to know what material you actually have unless you have a spec sheet for the material being tested.
https://www.duramag.com/alnico-magnets/available-alnico-magnet-grades/
FWIW
Regards
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.11, 11:36:42
Brad & Verpies, Mags referenced in the Non-sense thread https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Signal-Generator-PWM-Pulse-Frequency-Duty-Cycle-Adjustable-Module-LCD-Display-1Hz-150Khz-3-3V-30V/32835541668.html. I'll be getting some anyway but thought they maybe useful here.
This will generate the frequencies but will not generate the 0V-based AC waveform that he desires.
For this you need to switch 4 switches (e.g. MOSFETs) like in an H-bridge arrangement:
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3710.0;attach=31118)
Any 10 cent microcontroller (MCU) can generate the switching sequence above, e.g.: PIC, ATtiny, or
Padauk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAGnsnO7w)...
To get this to work with a cheap MCU, you'd also need 2 low-side and 2 high-side MOSFET drivers...or 1 specialized Full H-Bridge driver IC.
...+ the power MOSFETs themselves.
But if you want to use the venerable
TL494 then you can add
this $1 driver (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv8871.pdf) to it and be done with it.
... + some passive components.
P.S.
The Dead Time needs to be implemented or the switches will short out.
One MOSFET body diode conducts during each Dead Time, so the H-bridge is never really open-circuited, but the "dead time" is normally so short, that it would not matter anyway.
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.11, 19:34:26
This will generate the frequencies but will not generate the 0V-based AC waveform that he desires.
For this you need to switch 4 switches (e.g. MOSFETs) like this:
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3710.0;attach=31102)
Any 10 cent microcontroller (MCU) can generate the sequence above, e.g.: PIC, ATtiny, or Paduk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAGnsnO7w)...
To get this to work with a cheap MCU, you'd also need 2 low-side and 2 high-side MOSFET drivers...or 1 specialized Full H-Bridge driver IC.
But if you want to use the venerable TL494 then you can add this $1 driver (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv8871.pdf) to it and be done with it.
... + some passive components.
P.S.
The "dead time" can be only several nanoseconds long, but it needs to be implemented or the switches will short out.
Excellent. Thanks Verpies
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.11, 19:34:26
This will generate the frequencies but will not generate the 0V-based AC waveform that he desires.
For this you need to switch 4 switches (e.g. MOSFETs) like this:
(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3710.0;attach=31118)
Any 10 cent microcontroller (MCU) can generate the switching sequence above, e.g.: PIC, ATtiny, or Padauk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYhAGnsnO7w)...
To get this to work with a cheap MCU, you'd also need 2 low-side and 2 high-side MOSFET drivers...or 1 specialized Full H-Bridge driver IC.
...+ the power MOSFETs themselves.
But if you want to use the venerable TL494 then you can add this $1 driver (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv8871.pdf) to it and be done with it.
... + some passive components.
P.S.
The Dead Time needs to be implemented or the switches will short out.
One MOSFET body diode conducts during each Dead Time, so the H-bridge is never really open-circuited, but the "dead time" is normally so short, that it would not matter anyway.
Thanks verpies
Looks like that is sorted O0
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.11, 14:11:39
Ok,powering on with the topic subject O0
Huge news coming soon O0
As a teaser--
I have found 7 people living in my states capital city that were involved in the TPU in it's infant days.
One just so happened to move from Perth(our capital city),down to my home town in Bunbury,and lives here now.
He was the head of the investment group put together to actually buy the TPU.
His name is Trevor Osborne,and man dose this guy have a history ;)
He is one of the head honcho's of the world harmony foundation.
One of the key goals for this !world harmony foundation! is to seek and invest in new technologies for the production of electrical power. He also happens to be one of the guys that was present for 2 demonstrations of the TPU here in my states capital city.
He also invented a highly efficient alternator,and opened up a production company in perth to produce these alternators.
I have found his facebook account,and have sent him a message.
But looking at his profile,seems he has not been active since around december 2017 :(
Looking at his picture,i am sure i have seen him at my workplace,and i think my boss may actually be friends with him--which i will ask tomorrow of course.
Here is his facebook profile.
https://www.facebook.com/trevor.osborne.549/timeline?lst=584740904%3A1253051280%3A1549890892
Now,turns out that Stan Deyo was also right in there among them,and had played a part in putting together the investment team. I have spoken to Stan on the phone on a number of occasions some years back,regarding his VIA drive technology,which was in the time i owned my own boat building company,and was interested in Stan's VIA drive for marine propulsion applications.
I have also located Garth Harvey (who was Brian Collins biggest investor) ,and of course lost his investment, and sent him a message,asking him if i could ask him some questions about the whole TPU saga--hope to hear from him as well.
Now,i will hold my tongue,and not reveal my source until i know for sure,but word has it tonight that the TPU was actually another device that SM stole and renamed. Looking at the pictures and design that this other source gave me tonight,i think he might be onto it O0
Anyway,more to come as i get intouch with these people--if i can.
Exciting time's
I mean,one of the biggest players in the early days of the TPU live's right here in my city,and he has seen it working at demo's twice-->how cool is that.
Brad
That's some good work Brad. I was surprised myself when I found so many sandgropers involved. I'll use my mad search skills and do some digging :)
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.12, 02:29:57
Looks like that is sorted O0
Which method of your waveform generation did you choose?
Quote from: verpies on 2019.02.12, 09:19:03
Which method of your waveform generation did you choose?
Going with the H bridge.
But ATM all is on hold,as something big has come up regarding the TPU-which is the topic at hand,and the one that gets priority.
Myself and Jim have been doing a lot of searching,and have some vital first hand leads.
We have already begun construction on the device.
Some here may not like what we have found,nor will they agree,but it is what it is O0
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.12, 12:38:59
Going with the H bridge.
But ATM all is on hold,as something big has come up regarding the TPU-which is the topic at hand,and the one that gets priority.
Myself and Jim have been doing a lot of searching,and have some vital first hand leads.
We have already begun construction on the device.
Some here may not like what we have found,nor will they agree,but it is what it is O0
Brad
Brad, why not share the info, whatever you find, even that it was a total fake, I will be interested.
What is your construction principle based on?
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.12, 13:27:30
Brad, why not share the info, whatever you find, even that it was a total fake, I will be interested.
What is your construction principle based on?
Ok ION,as you wish.
The TPU was not SM's device or design,nor was it Brian collins.
The TPU is an upgrade of sorts of Alberto Molina Martinez CEG (continuous electrical generator),or ring of power as the AU team called it.
The device is not a fake,and was tested by the AU team that intended to purchase it.
They could find no hidden power source,and as it was bought here to WA,and tested in a room provided by the UA team here in Perth,there was no way SM could have placed any type of wireless transmitter anywhere.And as you have said many times ION,there was no way in hell that it was battery powered. The AU team provided there own lightbulb's and other electrical equipment that was powered by the TPU,so no chance of batteries being hidden within each load.
Now,i am not sure about the patent in America,but the Australian one has expired,and so we now can do as we wish with the device.
The device is 3 phase,but where each phase is split into 2--so you end up with 6 phases around the ring.
This provides a rotating magnetic field around the ring,and within this rotating magnetic field are the collection coils. They are also in a 3 phase configuration,but where each phase overlaps the primary 3 phase windings.
Not sure if this is going to make any sense,but instead of having the secondary of a transformer pushing back against the ends of the primary coil,it pushes against the middle of two primary coils. So the back EMF of the secondary is being dumped into the middle of two primary coils.
The two halves of each end of the two primary coils can induce the secondary,but the secondary cannot induce the two primaries,as the centers of the two primaries is neutral.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.12, 12:38:59
Going with the H bridge.
But ATM all is on hold,as something big has come up regarding the TPU-which is the topic at hand,and the one that gets priority.
OK, so here is the schematic in case you want to order parts for a later time.
P.S.
You can delete C2, R2 and P2 and ground the Pin4 of TL494, because the DRV8871 already implements the Dead Time. Also, you can experiment with a larger P3 for wider frequency adjustment range.
Brad
Are you talking about this patent:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ce/42/cd/3a0bc5f6b1c6ed/US20070110208A1.pdf
Ion,
More than likely this one-
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c0/74/57/63c418177a51dc/US20020125774A1.pdf
Pm
Alberto Molina Martinez himself said his device was not overunity and that he had mistakenly thought it was.
I think it was on the OU forum that he posted this.
Ion,
Attached is a later application filed on Sept 11,2003 for the same basic generator.
Apart from what Grumpy posted above, how could SM have gleaned or copied this technology from Alberto Molina-Martinez when his first provisional was filed on June 15, 1999? This date would have been after SM's video disclosures so did they know each other beforehand?
Pm
Quote from: partzman on 2019.02.12, 17:19:50
Ion,
Attached is a later application filed on Sept 11,2003 for the same basic generator.
Apart from what Grumpy posted above, how could SM have gleaned or copied this technology from Alberto Molina-Martinez when his first provisional was filed on June 15, 1999? This date would have been after SM's video disclosures so did they know each other beforehand?
Pm
SM used the time machine aspect of his device to go forward and bring back the technology to the mid 1990's :D
Seriously, I really don't know what to believe regarding the Martinez patent, it's been brought up a very many times over the years as a possible basis for the TPU but some parts fit, others don't. Spherics had a few words about the patents. I think somewhere there is a youtube video also with that claim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-xlpYn7z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW_Owk_je70
Hopefully Brad and Jim will make their case with supporting evidence.
One thing for sure, the huge number of clickbait so called "working" free energy devices on youtube is making every dirt poor person in a third world country a bit of loose change.........."everybody wants ta get into da act" J.Durante
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSzmuWImK7Q
Well this bloke https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-k-wilcken-a7060931/ thought so in 2002.
From: "Jonathan Kolber" jonathankolber@earthlink.net
To: "Wilcken, Stephen K" <stephen.k.wilcken@b...>,
<standeyo@m...>
Subject: RE: Ring of power
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:07:08 -0400
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Importance: Normal
X-SLUIDL: B00B019B-E85B11D6-BA1B00D0-B75DD9A7
Stan,
Steve Wilcken says that the Molino invention is substantially similar
to or identical to the Steven Marks invention in the Ring of Power
video we sent you.
We are very interested in talking with Molino. Can you reach him or
offer an introduction? We would consider a finder's fee
reasonable if
we license the technology.
Cordially,
Jonathan Kolber, Vice President
Space Energy Access Systems, Inc.
==========================
https://overunity.com/1668/eye-wittness-accounts-from-people-who-have-seen-the-tpus/?fbclid=IwAR3fBZKfiY2Is2Nu6KBk8WIzfQ1o47jNpLLfkgAxwzZ7dxeWiICX0gh6DjA
Alberto Molina Martinez
IMO way off base, how on earth can anyone associate this with, let's say the open TPU which is quite visible, come on be real at what you see, that's not saying it does not work, it is just not the SM TPU. You have to delve into what each part and each connection is doing and think about what the result will be, let's be scientific at least part of the way that physics is taught.
Again, IMO the TPU does not break any rules in any way, but it works as though it does because it produces "free energy", but the energy was and is always there. Is your lightning strike free energy? where did it come from? Over 1000 lightning strikes per day here in Spain, where did all that energy come from? please open your eyes as to what is a lightning strike and how it comes about, I think Tesla knew don't you?
Sorry but I have had a very tiring day with clients of my wife and then see the same old same old it is like this patent of this person etc etc it more than starts to get irritating.
Please ignore me if you think I'm OTT.
Regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: Grumpy on 2019.02.12, 17:01:44
Alberto Molina Martinez himself said his device was not overunity and that he had mistakenly thought it was.
I think it was on the OU forum that he posted this.
No device is overunity--the heat pump is not overunity,and yet 1kw of electrical energy can produce 3kw of heat energy,as the energy is already there in the environment-as is electromagnetic energy.
He also clearly stated that once the device was enitially powered up,the source could be disconnected,and the device would keep driving loads.
So,both of those statements can be true.
When people stop looking at drawings wired conventionally,then you will be on your way to understanding as to how and why it works.
Brad
Quote from: Centraflow on 2019.02.12, 22:49:09
Alberto Molina Martinez
IMO way off base, how on earth can anyone associate this with, let's say the open TPU which is quite visible, come on be real at what you see, that's not saying it does not work, it is just not the SM TPU. You have to delve into what each part and each connection is doing and think about what the result will be, let's be scientific at least part of the way that physics is taught.
Again, IMO the TPU does not break any rules in any way, but it works as though it does because it produces "free energy", but the energy was and is always there. Is your lightning strike free energy? where did it come from? Over 1000 lightning strikes per day here in Spain, where did all that energy come from? please open your eyes as to what is a lightning strike and how it comes about, I think Tesla knew don't you?
Sorry but I have had a very tiring day with clients of my wife and then see the same old same old it is like this patent of this person etc etc it more than starts to get irritating.
Please ignore me if you think I'm OTT.
Regards
Mike 8)
If people stopped looking at the pretty pictures,and look at the mode of operation,then maybe they would be able to connect the dots.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2019.02.12, 17:01:44
Alberto Molina Martinez himself said his device was not overunity and that he had mistakenly thought it was.
I think it was on the OU forum that he posted this.
I'd be interested on your thoughts on the creation of a rotating field using a device like this.
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.13, 01:44:43
I'd be interested on your thoughts on the creation of a rotating field using a device like this.
If i remember correctly, SM was into audio. and it was a special speaker he was working on that had shown him some things. This really only clicks in with me as i had a discussion with someone about some ideas on making audio speakers more efficient. We talked of dual voice coil subs and such, and he had suggested that there might be something there, as in these subjects we are here for, if the dual voice coil were wound bifilar instead of layered. But I didnt get a strong idea from him as to hows, whats, about it, but maybe he had some similar thoughts with that as SM did. ???
Ive taken speakers apart and done some re-cone and repairs, and was thinking about taking a DVC sub apart and rewiring the coils bifilar. But, considering what you guys are discussing thus far, maybe one or some of you can think on that and possibly make a connection with this idea. If SM was planning a single speaker that could produce a stereo sound, (I think that was what he was into) then the sound must have been audio freq modulation of a higher freq in order to cause the sound to beam in a particular direction. They have these where you walk by a say Pepsi machine and only when you are in front of the machine can you hear any audio of a can being cracked open and PSSSHHHHhh from the machine. Just thinkin. Like if I were to redo the coils on a sub, what would any of you recommend in changes in voice coil wire size and or whether all of the coil should be within the magnetic field of the speakers motor assy, as most speakers coils are overhung and the coils are only partly engulfed in mag flux (seems like an eff buster design C.C )of the subs center pole piece and the top plate that looks like a thick washer to concentrate the field on the coil. Like, if we need to get into the say 45khz range, im thinkin larger wire and less turns as most and or many real subs inductance impedes higher audio freq generally starting at and above 100hz.
Maybe if we have enough info on the speaker project itself we then could possibly see what SM had seen and we could get to the root of all this. ;) ;D
Mags
Quote from: JimBoot on 2019.02.13, 01:44:43
I'd be interested on your thoughts on the creation of a rotating field using a device like this.
The inventor says it creates a rotating electromagnetic field in the abstract of the patent, and then I lost interest.
I posted on the OU forum back in 2007 that this device lost the output when connected to a load, and the inventor even said it didn't work as claimed. He went on to make another device but I don't know anything about that one.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2019.02.13, 02:26:27
The inventor says it creates a rotating electromagnetic field in the abstract of the patent, and then I lost interest.
I posted on the OU forum back in 2007 that this device lost the output when connected to a load, and the inventor even said it didn't work as claimed. He went on to make another device but I don't know anything about that one.
Thanks mate.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2019.02.13, 02:26:27
The inventor says it creates a rotating electromagnetic field in the abstract of the patent, and then I lost interest.
Why did you loose interest when a rotating magnetic field was mentioned?
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.13, 02:41:43
Why did you loose interest when a rotating magnetic field was mentioned?
Brad
A rotating electromagnetic field is very conventional and nothing is new there.
There is very little info on rotating electric fields, so that would have been more interesting, but then he wouldn't have all that iron in the device.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2019.02.13, 03:52:23
A rotating electromagnetic field is very conventional and nothing is new there.
There is very little info on rotating electric fields, so that would have been more interesting, but then he wouldn't have all that iron in the device.
If a toroid,such as ferrite or silicone steel confines almost all of the magnetic field within it self,then dose that not leave you with a rotating electric field around that toroid ?.
The charge within the electric field doesn't actually have to rotate to have a rotating electric field,much like the water in the ocean doesn't actually move along with the wave.
Brad
The biggest problem we seem to have on this forum(and most others like this one),is the term Overunity.
The first thing you need to accept is that term (overunity) is a misnomer when talking about a self running device.
The two should never be mixed together,as it only creates confusion.
First up,there is no such thing as an overunity device-->you simply cannot create energy.
So as far as im concerned,the word overunity should just be eliminated altogether.
Reason being that as soon as you say !i have an OU device!,all those that know energy cannot be created will call you a scammer or a lyre.
Then there is the self runner.
The self runner is not an OU device,but a device that can draw in existing environmental energy,or a device that can make use of stored energy within the devices construction materials them self.
The reason the two get mixed up is simply because those that have a self runner simply do not understand as to where the extra energy is coming from,or what that extra energy source actually is.
You can build a self runner in under 15 minutes,using various environmental energies.
I will give you an example,and there will be those here that will just roll there eyes. But there will also be those with open eyes that will see what i am trying to explain here.
Get your self a 100 watt solar panel,a 10,000F 12v cap,and a small 12 volt computer cooling fan.
1-Hook solar panel to cap via charge controller.
2-hook cooling fan to cap.
3-place whole unit outside in a sunny or partly shaded position.
4-You now have a self runner that will run 24 hours a day.
Now,i know that sounds so sill,and it only sounds silly because you know where the energy comes from.
But what would have this device looked like 200 years ago,before we knew we could convert sunlight into electrical energy? What would you be thinking if some one presented this to you 200 years ago?.
As i have presented before.the heat pump is often (mistakenly)referred to as an OU device,just because it can deliver 3x+ the heat energy than the electrical energy it takes to drive it. The heat pump is not an OU device. It is a device that takes available heat energy from the environment and concentrate's it,or separates the highly active molecules from the less active molecules.
A self runner that produces electrical energy would be nothing more than a heat pump for electric charge,where that device would separate the positive and negative charges in the environment,or within the materials the device is constructed with.
So,we have the heat pump,which draws in environmental heat--separates the highly active molecules from the less active one's,and provides 3x+ the heat energy of that of the electrical energy needed to run it.
We have the humble PM,which turns chaos into order,and provides us with a continual magnetic force.
So why is it so hard for some to believe that there cannot be a device that separates positive and negative charges which abound us in our surrounding environment ?.
The word !Overunity! needs to go.
It is both unreal and also confusing for some.
Brad
Well put Brad. Let's not do a forum name change tho. ;D ;D
You've articulated some good points TinMan.
I like to think that all of the abundant energy at our disposal
which is provided by our Sun is Free Energy.
Could it be that the term "Overunity" is a mathematical
concept?
Quote from: muDped on 2019.02.13, 11:48:18
You've articulated some good points TinMan.
I like to think that all of the abundant energy at our disposal
which is provided by our Sun is Free Energy.
Could it be that the term "Overunity" is a mathematical
concept?
Well it seems that overunity has been mixed in with perpetual motion,where they are assumed to be one and the same.
Quote: The hypothetical continuous operation of an isolated mechanical device or other closed system without a sustaining energy source.
A self runner is a self sustaining open system,or a system that runs of the energy contained within it's own materials.It is a device that creates order from chaos.
Here is a couple of questions for all.
Below is a diagram,where the thick black line represents either a ferrite or laminated steel core of shown shape. There are two primary coils placed on the core.
The first question is-what is the magnetic path/field throughout the core?
The second question is,where would you place a secondary coil from which to draw power from ?.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.13, 12:34:06
Well it seems that overunity has been mixed in with perpetual motion,where they are assumed to be one and the same.
Quote: The hypothetical continuous operation of an isolated mechanical device or other closed system without a sustaining energy source.
A self runner is a self sustaining open system,or a system that runs of the energy contained within it's own materials.It is a device that creates order from chaos.
Here is a couple of questions for all.
Below is a diagram,where the thick black line represents either a ferrite or laminated steel core of shown shape. There are two primary coils placed on the core.
The first question is-what is the magnetic path/field throughout the core?
The second question is,where would you place a secondary coil from which to draw power from ?.
Brad
Well that is an unusual core, and it splits the coils, and then the coils wired in series appear to be opposing polarity, magnetically when it comes to their positions on the core. Where did you get this pic?
It seems there might not be a place for the secondary to work as the 2 primaries cancel magnetically. Unless applying a sec affects that neutralized relationship....
And if it does affect the relationship, then this would be an example of decreasing input when the sec is loaded because without a loaded sec, the 2 primaries have a very reduced inductance as a whole and most likely incur high currents due to very low impedance.
This may be an example of lowering the input when a load is applied, but the initial currents without a load are very high vs a traditional transformer function. So this example would be intentionally very inefficient without a load to a point of why? If the input continues to lower as the output continues to rise with heavier load, there must be a plateau where things level off, I think.
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2019.02.13, 13:55:18
Mags
QuoteWell that is an unusual core, and it splits the coils, and then the coils wired in series appear to be opposing polarity, magnetically when it comes to their positions on the core. It seems there might not be a place for the secondary to work as the 2 primaries cancel magnetically. Unless applying a sec affects that neutralized relationship....
Look again Mag's.
The coils do not build apposing fields. There is a clear magnetic path.
There is no cancelation of the magnetic fields,and there is a place for the secondary.
QuoteWhere did you get this pic?
The pic is mine,the design is mine,and the inspiration came from the CEG patent--the one no one seems to think fits right in with the TPU.
Think about electric charges Mags.
A positive charge is attracted to !both! a negative charge,and a neutral charge.
A negative charge is attracted to !both! a positive charge,and a neutral charge.
A neutral charge is attracted to !both! positive and negative charges.
Brad
Quote from: TinMan on 2019.02.13, 14:18:45
Look again Mag's.
The coils do not build apposing fields. There is a clear magnetic path.
There is no cancelation of the magnetic fields,and there is a place for the secondary.
The pic is mine,the design is mine,and the inspiration came from the CEG patent--the one no one seems to think fits right in with the TPU.
Think about electric charges Mags.
A positive charge is attracted to !both! a negative charge,and a neutral charge.
A negative charge is attracted to !both! a positive charge,and a neutral charge.
A neutral charge is attracted to !both! positive and negative charges.
Brad
Ok. I see the mistake I made.
Mags
Quote from: muDped on 2019.02.13, 11:48:18
Could it be that the term "Overunity" is a mathematical
concept?
Eric Dollard has a fairly concise mathematical EE model that does seem to allow energy synthesis/destruction by dynamically varying the capacitance and/or inductance of a resonating AC circuit with respect to time.
A capacitor that is decreasing in value while it is being discharged will create a greater EMF into a coil for the same amount of stored dielectric energy.
An inductor whose inductance is decreasing while it is discharged will create a greater EMF into a capacitor in the same way.
Think of it as putting added pressure on a deflating balloon.
He does not explicitly spell this out, but the formulas do seem to allow for this kind of exploit. At least that's my understanding of it.
The result is a hysteresis loop that looks like this:
Quote from: ion on 2019.02.12, 18:09:55
SM used the time machine aspect of his device to go forward and bring back the technology to the mid 1990's :D
Seriously, I really don't know what to believe regarding the Martinez patent, it's been brought up a very many times over the years as a possible basis for the TPU but some parts fit, others don't. Spherics had a few words about the patents. I think somewhere there is a youtube video also with that claim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei-xlpYn7z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW_Owk_je70
Hopefully Brad and Jim will make their case with supporting evidence.
One thing for sure, the huge number of clickbait so called "working" free energy devices on youtube is making every dirt poor person in a third world country a bit of loose change.........."everybody wants ta get into da act" J.Durante
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSzmuWImK7Q
Perhaps the TPU is not the CEG,maybe it is very similar ?
I believe the working principle to be much the same--we shall see.
I truly believe that both rely on a rotating magnetic field,whether that be a 2D or 3D field,i am not sure yet.
3 dimensional seems to make more sense looking at the pictures we have on the TPU.
Now that the magnetic poles of the earth have shifted from the earths rotational axis,imagine the power we could produce if we rapped a coil around the earth,and some how fixed it in space,so as the earth rotated through it ;D
Brad
Small update.
I have the 3 phase input sorted.
Now we can split each phase to get our 6 required phases O0
Brad
Can someone help me to understand this?
I've built 2 circular cores from E sections of 2x transformers.
The whole idea being to somewhat visually replicate one of the small TPU's, at least in terms of visuals.
One of the cores has been wired with 2 coils so far, aiming to do a Pat. 381,970 type of set up on both cores.
Well, I wired it up with a simple Joule Thief circuit, just to check it would work ok, before moving on.
C3198, 10K resistor with 473 cap as a tank.
But, in the last pic, you can hopefully see that both wires from the positive connection of the AAA go to the same coil. The left coil connects to the transistor collector and the resistor/cap.
The right coil is not electrically connected to anything.
How does it work? How can it work?
Must be Induction through the core, somehow?
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2019.02.18, 00:25:38
Can someone help me to understand this?
I've built 2 circular cores from E sections of 2x transformers.
The whole idea being to somewhat visually replicate one of the small TPU's, at least in terms of visuals.
One of the cores has been wired with 2 coils so far, aiming to do a Pat. 381,970 type of set up on both cores.
Well, I wired it up with a simple Joule Thief circuit, just to check it would work ok, before moving on.
C3198, 10K resistor with 473 cap as a tank.
But, in the last pic, you can hopefully see that both wires from the positive connection of the AAA go to the same coil. The left coil connects to the transistor collector and the resistor/cap.
The right coil is not electrically connected to anything.
How does it work? How can it work?
Must be Induction through the core, somehow?
Hi Mark
Could we see a schematic?,as hard to understand the whole circuit from the description.
Cheers
Brad
Oh, it's a regular Joule Thief.
The only differences are, the positive of the AAA is connected to both ends of the right side coil.
And it wouldn't start with a 1K resistor, so I changed it out to a 10K and '473' cap.
I should do a quick vid perhaps. Have changed it to conventional and the light is about 1/4 brighter, was expecting a bigger difference.
I'll resolder it back to the weird connections :)
It's nothing on its own for TPU study, but odd for my own knowledge of JT's.
Quick 'Unlisted' vid to show the thing running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq0tgSTrYKY
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2019.02.18, 05:59:06
Quick 'Unlisted' vid to show the thing running:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq0tgSTrYKY
Still a bit hard to vision,as i havnt seen a standard JT circuit with a cap.
So,one coil has both its ends connected to the positive of the battery-so the coil is shorted.
One end of the other coil go's to the collector,and the other end gos into the cap,then from the cap through the resistor,and then to the base of the transistor--is that correct?.
If so,then there is nothing hooked to the emitter?
Added
Ok ,so i have looked at the video on my PC(instead of the phone),and see that the negative of the battery is connected to the emitter-of course.
So,when you put your hand close to the battery,the LED gets brighter.
This would seem to indicate a capacitive coupling of some sort,where the shorted coil on the positive is acting as an antenna-transmitter. May also be some effect there going on with the transistors capacitance,like some sort of miller effect maybe ?
Brad
Wow I got one right "indicate a capacitive coupling" ? I've seen in in a bunch of devices with lots of coils.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.04, 08:53:35
The best answer, by far, comes from relativity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0
In a new paper (https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.05799) it is shown that the Lorentz force and Maxwell's equations were obtained by Richard Feynman from relativity but with a different approach. Here the Coulomb law is not even needed.
Incidentally I came across a remark that reminded me of something important that we don't often have in mind. Unlike mass/energy, the electrical charge is Lorentz invariant : all moving observers observe the same charge (but not the same electric field). So there is a big difference of principle between mass/gravity field and charge/electric field. Is it related to the difference in principle between the electrical force which is real, and the force of gravity which is in fact only the curvature of space-time? Maybe there's ideas to explore here.
F6FLT - The idea of thinking about forces in different ways is always of interest. Just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's the whole story. We can only measure what we have instruments to measure with. Formerly little known products of certain interactions might be what is needed for the TPU. Especially if the device is as simple as people such as Jack Durban suggested.
Though, personally, I've always thought of gravity as an effect of mass. Got no problem being educated, especially if it results in a self runner lol
All - Yeah, i'll go with capacitive coupling, especially because the hand brightened the LED.
I don't really know how the power from the positive of the batt can get through the circuit though.
The shorted right side coil somehow transfers through the other coil, that is both powered by the transistor and supplies the feedback. It's doing 3 things.
It may be very interesting to pulse the positive into a TPU styled device at a frequency. Perhaps being 1 of the 3 multi-phase connections. If multiple actions can occur within the 1 coil, as seems to be shown, then thought must be given to unforeseen actions which produce frequencies for hetrodyne effects. Or, as buzzwords, hetrodyned resonant frequency modulation. The feedback processes may harmonize similar to awful feedback from a microphone and speaker, bringing along the power it needs to run. The overflow is then the circuit final output via a simple diode mixer. I think one of the TPU's had a regular FWBR on it, difficult to tell.
I don't know ???
Oh, Brad, the resistor and cap are a tank, one on top of the other. I find that method to use less power in JT's, it's the same as a regular 1K to the Base having the cap in parallel.
The LED output was brighter before I rewired it. Perhaps the batt has been running down, it was salvaged from the same quadcopter transmitter as used in the pics/video. I didn't note anything about current usage etc.
Am thinking this type of core made from E sections may be pretty good.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.02.18, 13:59:38
all moving observers observe the same charge (but not the same electric field)
So how do they observe the charge if not through its electric field?
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2019.02.19, 02:14:33
F6FLT - The idea of thinking about forces in different ways is always of interest. Just because it's accepted doesn't mean it's the whole story. We can only measure what we have instruments to measure with. Formerly little known products of certain interactions might be what is needed for the TPU. Especially if the device is as simple as people such as Jack Durban suggested.
Though, personally, I've always thought of gravity as an effect of mass. Got no problem being educated, especially if it results in a self runner lol
Yeah Jack Durban said he was just a tinkerer and didn't know much. Tick for me. I was in a meeting once re a new revolutionary tech. There were some heavy hitters from well known US Govt contractors, a CEO who has been immortalised by Hollywood, big media and a "US Govt Consultant". When a high level EE questioned how this tinkerer inventor could possibly come up with this tech without training, the "US Gov Consultant" on the team lent in and said - "That's precisely how he came up with it. He didn't know what "couldn't" work"
Slider,
I had a circuit exhibiting similar characteristics. Here's a tip that may enhance its function (at least it did for mine).
- Put a hefty resistor between the positive off your battery, and the transistor. Maybe try with a few different values, even with values that would normally seem much to high.
You may be surprised.
If you're able to do this, could you share what you've found?
Bob
Great idea there Bob. As things move along, or may move along I'll try that.
At the moment, it's just a Joule Thief set up, with the idea of running at least 3 of them at slightly different frequencies. Just seemed to be the most immediate idea to try.
Am with the tinkerer thoughts on this too Jim, happy accident territory.
The two transformer E core coils are now done, with wiring to Tesla's Patent.
14 to 17 turns of thicker gauge over the top of 100 turn coils.
Cork has been used to separate the two and then cardboard is over each coil...onto which I'll wind the ubiquitous electrical tape 8)
The JT circuits run just fine either when using the lower 100 turn coils, or when using a thinner gauge and thicker gauge that's wound over the top.
It's a scratty build, but then the originals were in some ways.
Am at the point of trying induction ideas to the lower coil and trying different other coil combinations.
Looks great, Slider.
The resister is completely counterintuitive, because you'd think it would actually dissipate charge. However, it produces the opposite effect, if your frequencies and voltage are in the right sweet spot. I could say more, but people need to try it first, rather than debate about theories.
Looking forward to your progress with it, whichever direction you choose.
Bob
I totally agree Bob, building stuff I know hardly anything about is better than writing about it :D
Am making a drive circuit for it now and tidying up what's become a bit of a mess... evidenced by the attached pic lol
What I've gone for, is the longer 100 turn coils being linked to Tesla's Pat 381,970, then the wrapped over coils being connected 1 to the next to the next. They form a double circle, with a top coil connecting to a bottom coil and around they go, alternating.
Induction thoughts were removed, on consideration of the distance shown between the coil sets in a couple of original actual TPU's. There may be some cross coupling, but I can't see it being the driving mechanism, due to turns amount and wire gauges.
The new circuit is to go in the middle, along with a fat mains voltage cap. Just to give that 'look' again, but hopefully finding a use for it within an actual later drive circuit. Resistor tests have only turned up reductions in output so far, will keep what you said in mind.
If nothing else, and presumably nothing else, it'll at least look something like a TPU and I'm running the 3 LED's from different points at a 10mA draw off 1.38V. So it's running ok as a quirky JT, but am also learning about coil interactions in such a set up.
When it warms up a bit in the house (no heating here) I'll get the scope on it, to try and see where connections may be better placed and what to do about a better driving circuit.
Update:
Something happened I was hoping for, it started to 'sing' 8)
You know how a large ferrite ring can make a high pitched whining sound? well it did so with one type of wire up. I believe it was 5kHz that Steven Mark said his devices ran at, or similar around that frequency with each one. Yet, I don't know that anyone mentioned noise coming from any of them ?!
A bit weird, if the things were putting out huge amperage and for there to be no audible ringing noise.
Anyhow, this thing started to do that, lit the LED's brightly, but drew 130mA.
It only did it after a lot of wires were shortened and the whole thing tidied up some.
Next is to put the electrical tape on.
2nd update:
Wrapped with electrical tape. Circuit held in place on a piece of black card spanning the diameter. Connections altered for 30mA draw.
Now, it does something kind of cool, it's got a latching switch method for switching on, somehow. The batt can go in the holder and nothing happens, until I touch an added extra transistor Collector wire to any of the still exposed wires, then it fires up and stays running.
The whole thing is nothing much, but has been fun to explore.
Thanks to Szaxx, for the cork idea a few weeks back, before all this. I got interested in the whole story and am glad I built the thing for the experience of it.
The earth is dc its poles dont flip
Well there is evidence that it has but irrelevant
Lets say we have two circuits set up both with separate inductors one dc (earth) and one ac (us) can we pull energy from the dc circuit.
Or use an ac circuit to draw energy from a magnet. No
But id bet the ac circuit can be used to interrupt 5he dc field, interrupt probably isnt a good choice of words more like vibrate, send signals communicate even, but tap the dc fields energy, no
The tpu was said to rotate a compass, will a ferrous core rotate a compass? No
There is no north or south in a Ferrous toroid the magnetic field is continuous.
Quote from: Dave45 on 2019.03.23, 13:57:03
The tpu was said to rotate a compass, will a ferrous core rotate a compass? No
There is no north or south in a Ferrous toroid the magnetic field is continuous.
Dear Dave,
I have built very similar devices to yours, and yes you can get a compass spinning with this setup, you just have to setup a rotating field in the ferrous core, see my bench. My core consisted of literally bailing wire, about 20-30 turns wrapped around a standard paint can and taped (about 7 inch dia.). To do so I used a 2 phase AC input to 2 sets of 2 coils, 4 total around the circumference consisting of 400 turns each with less then .1 inch between them. It causes a bump if you will of a larger magnetic field that rotates similar to a electric motor. I could easily get a compass to rotate in the center and also outside close to the core, the problem was the compass, It would only spin when it mechanically could lock to the spinning field which meant under 200 hz input freq. At 60-120 HZ it would spin very nice, at higher freq's it could not keep up with it, if you look at it as RPM, 100 HZ is equiv. to 6000 rpm and the compass was just following as best it could. Mechanically the compass probably couldn't spin any faster then a few hundred RPM, as the speed increased the compass would slow and then come to a stop. So your statement above is incorrect, please don't think of it as some kind of law.
Respectfully
Room
Quote from: Room3327 on 2019.03.23, 17:58:46
Dear Dave,
I have built very similar devices to yours, and yes you can get a compass spinning with this setup, you just have to setup a rotating field in the ferrous core, see my bench. My core consisted of literally bailing wire, about 20-30 turns wrapped around a standard paint can and taped (about 7 inch dia.). To do so I used a 2 phase AC input to 2 sets of 2 coils, 4 total around the circumference consisting of 400 turns each with less then .1 inch between them. It causes a bump if you will of a larger magnetic field that rotates similar to a electric motor. I could easily get a compass to rotate in the center and also outside close to the core, the problem was the compass, It would only spin when it mechanically could lock to the spinning field which meant under 200 hz input freq. At 60-120 HZ it would spin very nice, at higher freq's it could not keep up with it, if you look at it as RPM, 100 HZ is equiv. to 6000 rpm and the compass was just following as best it could. Mechanically the compass probably couldn't spin any faster then a few hundred RPM, as the speed increased the compass would slow and then come to a stop. So your statement above is incorrect, please don't think of it as some kind of law.
Respectfully
Room
Good info O0
We really need to understand the energy field we're trying to tap into, are we trying to tap into the aether or our planets magnetic field.
Quote from: Dave45 on 2019.03.31, 14:11:06
Good info O0
We really need to understand the energy field we're trying to tap into, are we trying to tap into the aether or our planets magnetic field.
Dave45,
Or the Schumann resonance, yes we should have some idea of what we are trying to tap into for energy when we experiment.
I would like to add that not only can you get a rotating field in a toroidal core, but that when you do, another anomaly crops up, and that is a clamp on ammeter will register current when held near to the toroid without being clamped on anything just as Steven Marks demonstrated in a video on the TPU.
It also feels when holding it like something is spinning or slightly gyroscopic, and this is the device that made me feel sick and dizzy when I was operating it and it also seemed like something (magnetic field) would continue to rotate for a period of time after cutting power to it.
I have mentioned these things in the past here but no one responded to me or seems to care, no one even responded to a basic question I asked about anyone seeing a clamp on ammeter register current when not clamped on anything, apparently no one has. As hard as I have tried I have never been able to get my clamp on meter to register anything when it is not clamped on something except in the rotating field of my toroid, readings as high as 40 amps with less then 1 amp of input. I think that is pretty anomalous. The things I'm telling you I have found were clues given by Steven Marks on the TPU operation. I have never gone out of the audio range with the frequencies I used, 20Hz to 20Khz, I use series capacitors to drive the 2 phases in resonance at all times and frequencies. Hope this information helps you.
Respectfully
Room
PS, I should add that it is 2 bumps, if you will, of field rotating, it is both a North
and South pole rotating around the toroid directly opposite of each other, although you may realize that, but just in case you didn't.
Ok,after much searching-or should i say-after Jim did some searching,we managed to get in touch with someone we !thought! was heavily involved with the TPU saga here in Oz.
Turns out-not so much.
He did have a little to do with it,but it was known with a different name,although it was the TPU.
Turns out the gyro and vibration effect felt with the TPU was nothing more than a small DC motor which had
an offset weight attached to the shaft of the motor-so im told.
I guess it could be hidden in an empty cap shell,so as it looked just like one of the caps in the center of the device.
Regarding finding the energy source.
Well the only source that i am aware of with close to that kind of energy density per square area is sunlight,with an energy density of 1.3Kw per square meter. But we know that that is not the source.
The earths magnetic field is far to weak to produce that kind of energy,not to mention the fact that it is a conservative field,and so cannot perform work.
Im still chasing up the people over here that have a piece of the large cut up TPU.
Brad
Quote from: Dave45 on 2019.03.31, 14:11:06
...We really need to understand the energy field we're trying to tap into, are we trying to tap into the aether or our planets magnetic field.
Quote from: Room3327 on 2019.03.31, 23:15:22
Dave45,
Or the Schumann resonance, yes we should have some idea of what we are trying to tap into for energy when we experiment.
...
Not the Schumann resonance. A resonance is never an energy source, but a means of accumulating step by step the energy from a source to be specified, in a system between two forms between which it periodically oscillates (potential/kinetic energy of the pendulum, current/voltage or electric/magnetic field of the LC circuit...).
Schumann resonance applies to electromagnetic waves and the natural energy at these resonances is only a weak background noise slightly higher than it is at other frequencies.
The Earth's magnetic field, like any magnetic field, has an energy density of B²/2*µo or about 0.88mJ/m
3, which is insignificant (and we have no idea how to recover it).
Finally, concerning the "aether", the question of energy being to take it from somewhere to put it where we need it, we may have a lot of difficulties to remove it from a place where it is already in a minimal state, which is what quantum vacuum and the ZPE are supposed to be.
Nuclear fusion energy seems more promising, and even a Maxwell demon seems more accessible than these exotic ideas without any operational clues.
Room 3327
Quote
I would like to add that not only can you get a rotating field in a toroidal core, but that when you do, another anomaly crops up, and that is a clamp on ammeter will register current when held near to the toroid without being clamped on anything just as Steven Marks demonstrated in a video on the TPU.
It also feels when holding it like something is spinning or slightly gyroscopic, and this is the device that made me feel sick and dizzy when I was operating it and it also seemed like something (magnetic field) would continue to rotate for a period of time after cutting power to it.
I have mentioned these things in the past here but no one responded to me or seems to care, no one even responded to a basic question I asked about anyone seeing a clamp on ammeter register current when not clamped on anything, apparently no one has. As hard as I have tried I have never been able to get my clamp on meter to register anything when it is not clamped on something except in the rotating field of my toroid, readings as high as 40 amps with less then 1 amp of input. I think that is pretty anomalous. The things I'm telling you I have found were clues given by Steven Marks on the TPU operation. I have never gone out of the audio range with the frequencies I used, 20Hz to 20Khz, I use series capacitors to drive the 2 phases in resonance at all times and frequencies. Hope this information helps you.
Respectfully
Room
-----------------------------------------------------------------
well
thats two persons who are members here who have written about experiments which
caused a "sticksion" or a gyroscopic feel ... or hints of that ...
and also made them feel ill ....
those clues need more discussion IMO [the actual experiments ]
how would one do that ...how is "that" even possible to do in such a simple
solid state experiment?
to feel the field ......Spin .....??
there was a thread at Stefan's where a man claimed to make the field spin..with gain,
many fellows worked on this ...still are I believe .... i will ask if any felt the spin or gyro effect yet .
Room could you please share your experiment ?
I am going to reach out for the other member to see if he can give more details.
respectfully
Chet
Quote from: Room3327 on 2019.03.31, 23:15:22
Dave45,
Or the Schumann resonance, yes we should have some idea of what we are trying to tap into for energy when we experiment.
I would like to add that not only can you get a rotating field in a toroidal core, but that when you do, another anomaly crops up, and that is a clamp on ammeter will register current when held near to the toroid without being clamped on anything just as Steven Marks demonstrated in a video on the TPU.
It also feels when holding it like something is spinning or slightly gyroscopic, and this is the device that made me feel sick and dizzy when I was operating it and it also seemed like something (magnetic field) would continue to rotate for a period of time after cutting power to it.
I have mentioned these things in the past here but no one responded to me or seems to care, no one even responded to a basic question I asked about anyone seeing a clamp on ammeter register current when not clamped on anything, apparently no one has. As hard as I have tried I have never been able to get my clamp on meter to register anything when it is not clamped on something except in the rotating field of my toroid, readings as high as 40 amps with less then 1 amp of input. I think that is pretty anomalous. The things I'm telling you I have found were clues given by Steven Marks on the TPU operation. I have never gone out of the audio range with the frequencies I used, 20Hz to 20Khz, I use series capacitors to drive the 2 phases in resonance at all times and frequencies. Hope this information helps you.
Respectfully
Room
PS, I should add that it is 2 bumps, if you will, of field rotating, it is both a North and South pole rotating around the toroid directly opposite of each other, although you may realize that, but just in case you didn't.
Dear Room3327
I may have missed when you posted your findings as I was ill and in and out of the hospital several times over the last years.
I am
very interested in reading again your post on this subject, if you would be so kind as to find the link.
Hopefully you can point to the exact test used, with circuit, so we may replicate
with caution, of course.
Kind Regards
Quote from: F6FLT on 2019.04.01, 11:27:59
The Earth's magnetic field, like any magnetic field, has an energy density of B²/2*µo or about 0.88mJ/m3, which is insignificant (and we have no idea how to recover it).
That weak field comes from a huge magnetic dipole, so the question should be can we extract energy from that dipole? Well that dipole may only create a weak
B field at the earth's surface, but the
A field there is certainly not weak. At the equator it is something like 200 Weber/m and it runs E-W (to get an appreciation of this you would find that value of
A field at the central cylindrical surface of a huge fully-magnetized piece of iron that is 400m in diameter, 4km long and weighing 4 giga-tonnes!). So is it possible to use this huge field?
It is well known that an
A field that is changing with time creates an
E field,
E=-d
A/dt (1)
and a charge
q in that field will endure a force
F=
q*
E. (2)
Combining the two effects gives you
F=-
q*d
A/dt (3)
which is classical transformer induction.
In some EM theories
q*
A is seen as a form of canonical or hidden momentum that is added to the mechanical momenum m*
v. Then since a force develops from rate-of-change of momentum
F=-d(m*
v)/dt-d(
q*
A)/dt (4)
is the force developed when a body loses momentum. The back force you feel holding a hosepipe is due to mass escaping at constant velocity given by
F=-
v*dm/dt which is one derivative of the first term in (4), the other
F=-m*d
v/dt being classical mass inertia. Similarly if a body residing an an
A field loses charge a force
F=-
A*d
q/dt (5)
will be developed which is one derivative of the second term in (4), the other being the classical transformer induction (3).
This topic has been discussed before in relation to some form of motor, but not with regard to the TPU, see
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3395.0
For the TPU it could transpire that the inner coil wound onto a cylindrical former made of cork is caused to vibrate in some simple mode (hence the soft cork), the force coming from the earth's
A field via (5). This requires other coils to induce alternating voltage (hence surface charge) onto the inner coil. Now with vibrations set up and the force coming from an external source, we can use the vibrating wires as a generator in classical
v X
B motional induction, with the
B coming either from local PM's or from other local coils. Is this worth further exploration?
Smudge
quote Smudge:
QuoteFor the TPU it could transpire that the inner coil wound onto a cylindrical former made of cork is caused to vibrate in some simple mode (hence the soft cork), the force coming from the earth's A field via (5). This requires other coils to induce alternating voltage (hence surface charge) onto the inner coil. Now with vibrations set up and the force coming from an external source, we can use the vibrating wires as a generator in classical v X B motional induction, with the B coming either from local PM's or from other local coils. Is this worth further exploration?
Dear Smudge
Please, do continue this line of thinking, as IMHO it is definitely worth further exploration. I have never been able to resolve the fact that the devices of SM were all relatively high voltage 100 to 830 Volts Direct Current, with the driving frequency and some other hash riding on top of the DC. This as a natural consequence of their operation, and not using any rectifiers. (SM said they were inherently DC output). Wires vibrating due to repulsion are interesting in that when fed with sine wave AC, the motion is always rectified in that it does not turn into attraction. You may possibly be on to something that needs further expansion.
Regards
Thank you all for your responses, I will try to answer all of them.
Tinman, I would love to see close up a piece of the cut up TPU, I hope you locate a piece. My device does not have a vibrator motor in it!
F6FLT, Yes I understand what you are saying, there is not much energy in the Shumann resonance and that is the main reason I gave up on this project a number of years ago, I even said so at the time.
Chet, As usual you seem to be the glue that holds us together.
Ion, Sorry about your illness's I hope your much better now, I have recently had a massive heart attack myself, 100 % blockage of my right coronary artery, something that would have killed me 30 years ago. But due to modern day technology I walked out of the hospital 3 days later feeling like a new man, and I currently feel better now then I have for the last 10 years.
I'm sorry Ion but I can't remember what thread I left comments in, but it doesn't matter, I've made more comments already in this thread then I did elsewhere. The info on this project of mine has never been hidden, it has been in my Bench since 2010, The circuits and construction are all there but my bench has been private until recently when I made it public.
As far as replications go I never ask other people to spend their time and money or to donate me money for anything I have on the fire, I ask for nothing and truly believe in open sourcing as the only way for this kind of stuff to ever reach the public. If someone is inclined to replicate I will help as much as I can.
Smudge, As always good math and info.
Respectfully
Room
Sorry to hear about your heart attack. (I'm just waiting for mine to happen)
Just curious,
How did you come up with "Room3327" as a user name?
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.01, 18:22:39
quote Smudge:
Dear Smudge
Please, do continue this line of thinking, as IMHO it is definitely worth further exploration. I have never been able to resolve the fact that the devices of SM were all relatively high voltage 100 to 830 Volts Direct Current, with the driving frequency and some other hash riding on top of the DC. This as a natural consequence of their operation, and not using any rectifiers. (SM said they were inherently DC output). Wires vibrating due to repulsion are interesting in that when fed with sine wave AC, the motion is always rectified in that it does not turn into attraction. You may possibly be on to something that needs further expansion.
Regards
Yes please do, I go along with ion here. O0
Regards
Mike 8)
Quote from: poynt99 on 2019.04.02, 03:12:11
Sorry to hear about your heart attack. (I'm just waiting for mine to happen)
Just curious,
How did you come up with "Room3327" as a user name?
Hi Point,
Thank you, but you know what, it was probably the best thing to happen to me. Now I know where I'm at with my cardiovascular system, how bad and how good, what I need to work on and what to avoid. It happened during a e-bike ride I took to test the bike after making some changes to it, just to let you know, I know you ride too. (sorry point I was thinking of peter he rides, well you might too)
I chose the name Room3327 because it was the room where Nicola Tesla lived out his last days and died in. It applies to my shop more then me, I figure my shop is the room I am going to die in and where I am living out my last days, I admire him and the things he had to go through in order to give us the modern world we now live in. Was he flawless, NO, he was human like rest of us but he was a brilliant man and I believe deserves respect.
Respectfully
Room3327
Dear Smudge
I hope you can find the time to expand on your idea of the "A" field acting on vibrating wires. Based on my study of the TPU, I think this is the right direction, although I never attempted to attribute the "A" field to the emf induced in vibrating wires. My observations of some models seems to point in this direction, now that you have clarified the method.
Normally wires pulsed in repulsion will vibrate like a normal string, inertia taking them through zero to some amplitude in the opposite direction, but if the pulses are inserted at the right moment, just before the zero crossing, the wire will not swing in the opposite direction, but will again repel. This could be the factor to create the net DC output.
Just how the "A"field will create the emf is beyond my knowledge of it. So hoping you can carry on with this line of thinking and propose a model we can test.
Regards
Room3327: Happy that you have successfully recovered. Good health to you.
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.02, 18:07:53
Room3327: Happy that you have successfully recovered. Good health to you.
Thank you, and the same to you. We have to pay more attention to our health at our age, as my mother used to tell me 'getting old isn't for the weak'.
Respectfully
Room
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.02, 18:07:53
Dear Smudge
I hope you can find the time to expand on your idea of the "A" field acting on vibrating wires. Based on my study of the TPU, I think this is the right direction, although I never attempted to attribute the "A" field to the emf induced in vibrating wires. My observations of some models seems to point in this direction, now that you have clarified the method.
Normally wires pulsed in repulsion will vibrate like a normal string, inertia taking them through zero to some amplitude in the opposite direction, but if the pulses are inserted at the right moment, just before the zero crossing, the wire will not swing in the opposite direction, but will again repel. This could be the factor to create the net DC output.
Just how the "A"field will create the emf is beyond my knowledge of it. So hoping you can carry on with this line of thinking and propose a model we can test.
Regards
OK. Here are some papers that might help. "Some Thoughts on the Steven Marks TPU" looks at vibrations that can be set up in wire hoops. That was written some time ago and does not suggest any OU method for creating the vibrations.
"On Electro-Magnetic Inertia2" suggests the possibility of vibrations being set up magnetically on moving magnetic poles because of mechanical unbalance induced from the Earth's scalar magnetic potential. That does suggest that hoops made of Fe (like in Room's experiment) can get anomalous forces causing vibrations.
"More on using the Earth's Magnetic Vector Potential" suggests that changing charge on a body will induce force from the Earth's
A field, but doesn't consider charge on a vibrating wire. If SM used copper wire wound onto his cork former then clearly that cannot have rotating poles like Room's toroid, but if he used Fe wire then maybe the inertia effect from the Earth's scalar field is the one to look for. If he used copper wire then maybe the
A field effect can be induced with electric surface charges rotating as suggested in "On Novel Forms of Surface Charge Flow".
Smudge
Thank you Smudge.
I go along with the 2nd and last paper which is somewhere in line with the latest STEAP TPU of mine.
Here I am using magnetic loops which have capacitance between them where a charge is generated and moved by the coils wound around the loops. I am using 3 frequencies in a cleaver way, 1st, 3rd and 9th harmonic related which when tuned to the resonance of the loops things start happening, I did post a short video of this tuning and the resulting kick out of the noise.
Regards
Mike 8)
Smudge
Thanks for the papers. I will digest them to the best of my ability and report back.
Meanwhile, is it possible to devise a simple experiment that proves the "A" field is real and not just a mathematical fiction?
I would be very happy to perform such an experiment. Any ideas?
We understand that the "B" field is totally contained within an Fe toroid wound conventionally. It has been said that the "A" field is on the outside.
How can this be proven?
Regards
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.03, 23:17:49
Smudge
Thanks for the papers. I will digest them to the best of my ability and report back.
Meanwhile, is it possible to devise a simple experiment that proves the "A" field is real and not just a mathematical fiction?
I would be very happy to perform such an experiment. Any ideas?
I will come up with something but at the moment I am writing about your idea that a combination of induction methods can produce DC.
Quote
We understand that the "B" field is totally contained within an Fe toroid wound conventionally. It has been said that the "A" field is on the outside.
How can this be proven?
Well coils are outside the core and they see the effect of the alternating A field.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.04.04, 19:33:31
I will come up with something but at the moment I am writing about your idea that a combination of induction methods can produce DC.
Smudge
Dear Smudge
Thank you for taking the time to consider my conjecture.
My intuition tells me that the
mechanical motion rectification that takes place in a pair of repulsing (or attracting) wires may be able to be put to good use somehow in producing DC (pulsating DC?) from an AC input, but I haven't been able to tie it all together.
I'll try to sketch something up.
Regards
SM jokingly hinted this:
Quote from: ion on 2019.04.04, 19:45:53
Dear Smudge
Thank you for taking the time to consider my conjecture.
My intuition tells me that the mechanical motion rectification that takes place in a pair of repulsing (or attracting) wires may be able to be put to good use somehow in producing DC (pulsating DC?) from an AC input, but I haven't been able to tie it all together.
I'll try to sketch something up.
Regards
SM jokingly hinted this:
A vibrating wire that crosses a static magnetic field will get induced AC from that field. However if the field is also alternating at the same frequency the induced voltage gets a DC component (instead of a sine you get a sine-squared waveform plus a sine waveform). Having a wire loop that has vibrations that changes the loop from a circle to an ellipse, i.e.while one side is going inwards the other side is going outwards, and having those movements within two air gaps in a toroidal core with its coil driven in synch with the vibrations, I think you get even better DC without too much superimposed AC. That is what I am writing about.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.04.05, 17:32:47
A vibrating wire that crosses a static magnetic field will get induced AC from that field. However if the field is also alternating at the same frequency the induced voltage gets a DC component (instead of a sine you get a sine-squared waveform plus a sine waveform). Having a wire loop that has vibrations that changes the loop from a circle to an ellipse, i.e.while one side is going inwards the other side is going outwards, and having those movements within two air gaps in a toroidal core with its coil driven in synch with the vibrations, I think you get even better DC without too much superimposed AC. That is what I am writing about.
Smudge
Agree on all points. I think I see where you are going with this.
What I am wondering about is how the DC can be had from a pair of parallel wires say 6 to 12 inches long vibrating in repulsion, rather than a loop. How does the static or AC magnetic cross field for such a pair need to be arranged, and how can one overcome nulls such that a pulsating DC can occur long the length of either wire.
I want to inject into the pair via capacitive couping a fast risetime pulse of considerable current timed to repeat before the zero crossing.
Taking one thing at a time we will first look at your loop model.
So I will be very interested in your document when it is released.
Regards, and thanks in advance.
Hi Smudge and everyone,
Very interesting papers. If the TPU meets the potential vector, it fits perfectly into one of my favourite fields. I also think that electrons can be "piloted" with a periodic signal, in order to create a direct current, or the other way around. So I looked particularly at the paper on using Earth's Magnetic Vector Potential (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3710.0;attach=31636).
Reading the thought experiment with both cars, I wondered why the idea had not already been mentioned. It's that, I think, The Devil Is in the Details. Because of the charge conservation, we have no way to change the charge of a closed system. Therefore, the charge change of each car must be done from outside the cars. Of course this has not been forgotten because in §4 of the "overall system", an external generator is used to move the charges alternately between the diametrically opposed hemispherical electrodes.
We therefore have a current. This will generate a magnetic field and/or a vector potential, which will interact with the moving charged electrodes in a way that is not at all obvious because it is variable in time, in space also if the generator rotated with the disk, and its topology in the area where the charges move is complex. Its effect could counteract the suggested effect. The study must include this fact to be conclusive, and it is not simple at all.
I've seen railway track side cables jump off the ground during a sudden fault current, probably 1000 amps @ 750V the cables i'm not sure of the mm2 but are very heavy even though they are aluminium.
Perhaps relevant in the context of unexplained phenomenon or energy un seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Vc6af1FDA
Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2019.04.07, 04:23:43
Perhaps relevant in the context of unexplained phenomenon or energy un seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Vc6af1FDA
You're six days late.
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.04.05, 17:32:47
A vibrating wire that crosses a static magnetic field will get induced AC from that field. However if the field is also alternating at the same frequency the induced voltage gets a DC component (instead of a sine you get a sine-squared waveform plus a sine waveform). Having a wire loop that has vibrations that changes the loop from a circle to an ellipse, i.e.while one side is going inwards the other side is going outwards, and having those movements within two air gaps in a toroidal core with its coil driven in synch with the vibrations, I think you get even better DC without too much superimposed AC. That is what I am writing about.
Smudge
I have changed my mind on this matter, see small write-up attached. With a static magnetic field the only electric field is that within the moving conductor, there are no electric fields in other space. When the magnetic field is alternating it creates electric fields that exist in space
outside the moving wire. With an alternating magnetic field, although the E field in the moving wire can have a DC component, it gets negated by those external E fields inducing into any closed circuit. Just connecting a voltmeter to the moving wire forms a closed circuit.
Smudge
Quote from: Smudge on 2019.04.08, 17:07:03
I have changed my mind on this matter, see small write-up attached. With a static magnetic field the only electric field is that within the moving conductor, there are no electric fields in other space. When the magnetic field is alternating it creates electric fields that exist in space outside the moving wire. With an alternating magnetic field, although the E field in the moving wire can have a DC component, it gets negated by those external E fields inducing into any closed circuit. Just connecting a voltmeter to the moving wire forms a closed circuit.
Smudge
OK Well it's back to the think tank then. I will try a few simple experiments when tax season passes and I'm finished writing checks.
Thanks
Regards
This may not be the best thread for this but I'll post my thoughts and we can move this elsewhere if wanted.
I was studying the attached patent recently and it amazed me how much the author's claims seemingly line up with the TPU. It's all about muon capturing and conversion into electrical energy. I'll let the patent speak for itself but what is interesting is one claim that inductors have broken flux lines! Since muons apparently are plentiful in the atmosphere and not so much at earth level, the author claims these broken flux lines "funnel" the atmospheric muons into his receiving coil via a special fractional frequency of the muon's Compton wavelength.
Read the author's description of the two power versions of the device. Could this be the operating principle behind SM's TPU?
Pm
Edit: BTW, the frequency for a muon's Compton wavelength is ~255.48MHz. This is totally incorrect as I misread the converter I was using. The actual muon frequency with a Compton wavelength of 1.173444110 x 10-14 m is 2.554808154e+10THz or ~2.55ZHz (Zettahertz)!
There is an apparent error in the patent cited above IMO. In lines 15-20, the author states that the Compton wavelength of a muon is 5.88x10-23 which is incorrect as according to many web references it is 1.17344x10-14.
They then use a multiplier on the Compton wavelength to lower the oscillating frequency to some realistic value.
So, this makes no sense really but they seem to have built two working devices or did they?
Pm
Looking at the coils and core setup with I believe it is a plastic separator between the primary and sec. If the outside winding is the primary, and its field is attracted to the core, it should influence the secondary on the way. Sooo, if the sec currents make a field, they will also be attracted to the core, maybe not affecting the primary as much?
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2020.03.12, 17:45:55
Looking at the coils and core setup with I believe it is a plastic separator between the primary and sec. If the outside winding is the primary, and its field is attracted to the core, it should influence the secondary on the way. Sooo, if the sec currents make a field, they will also be attracted to the core, maybe not affecting the primary as much?
Mags
Mags,
I guess I do remember there being mentioned in the patent that there could be ferrite in the core and had forgotten it. I did some bench tests and did see some harmonics in a spectrum analysis that were multiples of the Muon's rest frequency, but this was with air cored coils. These were also multiples of the fundamental driving frequency so I did some burst tests to see if any of the harmonics decayed slower than the fundamental but nothing was apparent but this was certainly not a conclusive test by any means!
Regards,
Pm
Quote from: partzman on 2020.03.13, 00:10:18
Mags,
I guess I do remember there being mentioned in the patent that there could be ferrite in the core and had forgotten it. I did some bench tests and did see some harmonics in a spectrum analysis that were multiples of the Muon's rest frequency, but this was with air cored coils. These were also multiples of the fundamental driving frequency so I did some burst tests to see if any of the harmonics decayed slower than the fundamental but nothing was apparent but this was certainly not a conclusive test by any means!
Regards,
Pm
Muons. Do they for sure exist? At least exist as sure as we believe electrons exist? Just sayin, I wouldnt put it past someone to invent the idea of muons to cover for a simpler explanation. ;D A guy at Ou shared a project of a doughnut magnetic core wound with a sec and then a larger doughnut of mag core material shell(2 halves upper and lower that encase the inner core and sec) with the primary wound on top. All toroid windings. The idea was the primary field would break through the outer core shell as it would saturate easily and want to get to the inner core and induce the sec. Said that the sec field would only be attracted to the inner core as the shell core was already saturated. Claimed more out than in. Dont think anyone got that replicated. So this pat seemed similar to me in those respects, just no outer core shell, just a plastic spacer.
Mags
Well of course it must be Muon's, I mean what else could it be?, a sea of energy, lol. I mean we are swimming in a sea of energy in which Feynman/Wheeler said one cup full of empty space/vacuum could boil the worlds oceans. A sea of EM energy so dense the energy in one particle could probably incinerate your whole family tree and your infatuated with muon's?.
I had posted more but came to the conclusion it was a waste of my time trying to explain concepts to people who have no interest in new concepts or learning. This whole thread is almost embarrassing to read because it represents little more than the degeneration of logic and reason. Muon's, really?.
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.14, 02:43:12
Well of course it must be Muon's, I mean what else could it be?, a sea of energy, lol. I mean we are swimming in a sea of energy in which Feynman/Wheeler said one cup full of empty space/vacuum could boil the worlds oceans. A sea of EM energy so dense the energy in one particle could probably incinerate your whole family tree and your infatuated with muon's?.
I had posted more but came to the conclusion it was a waste of my time trying to explain concepts to people who have no interest in new concepts or learning. This whole thread is almost embarrassing to read because it represents little more than the degeneration of logic and reason. Muon's, really?.
Oh my! I must apologize for exposing your intellect to such senseless drivel. Of course I'm just a lowly messenger so you will have to take up the issue of the muon's existence with those scientists who claim to know.
In my unwitting effort to insult your intelligence, I'm afraid that I have ruined my chances to hear more of your knowledge of how to cohere the energy that surrounds us. I mean I'm sure if I had not stepped all over your toes, I would have been privileged to have seen schematics and a working model to accomplish this great task!
Oh well, stupid me!
Pm
Hey PM,
It is best to ignore the trolls. Then they get tired and go away. Feeding them only encourages them to continue with their drivel.
Quote from: CITFTA on 2020.03.14, 15:07:25
Hey PM,
It is best to ignore the trolls. Then they get tired and go away. Feeding them only encourages them to continue with their drivel.
10-4 O0
Pm
Partzman
QuoteIn my unwitting effort to insult your intelligence, I'm afraid that I have ruined my chances to hear more of your knowledge of how to cohere the energy that surrounds us. I mean I'm sure if I had not stepped all over your toes, I would have been privileged to have seen schematics and a working model to accomplish this great task!
No worries and I can help you.
First you build a crystal radio which as you know has no conventional power source like a battery and tune it away from man made sources. What you hear is static/white noise or better put energy found everywhere in the universe. No need for mysterious particles, or magical processes or any such contrivance.
You may not know this but I have read the history of nearly every FE inventor we know of and most all of them said categorically that they started there research with 1)unexplained natural HV phenomena and 2)unpowered oscillators like the crystal radio. Have you done the research?, have you spent the time to understand what the FE inventors were saying and the premise they built on?. You see basically nowhere in the literature do they mention muon's or any other complex contrivance you gentlemen seem to be debating.
I mean the actual premise common to almost every FE inventor is so simple it's amazing so few have looked at it. Build an unpowered oscillator like a crystal radio and start trying new things to increase the signal strength any way you can by any means possible. This is the TPU and this is how SM said he got started just like every other FE inventor.
I just get a little cranky when I see how this has been turned into some kind of cult of who can use the most obscure terms and references and electronics jargon to impress there friends. Not unlike the Bedini fiasco which decades later is no closer to finding any answers than when it started. So where does the energy come from?... it ain't muon's I can tell you that much.
Quote from: AllCanadian
So where does the energy come from?... it ain't muon's I can tell you that much.
There really is a factual answer to your question.
Unfortunately, most researchers simply do not want to 'go there.'
You're correct in saying "It ain't muons."
We're being played with.
It may help further to answer some questions and more important the reasoning behind them.
First, we use a non-powered crystal radio or modified self-oscillator like a joule thief circuit run off a capacitor so we have a bench mark or foundation to build on. A $20K power analyzer is a waste of time and all we want to know is what direction were heading, are we gaining or are we losing, where are we going?. Like SM I started with $10 oscillator circuits learning how to achieve near 100% efficiency first then changing things and noting which direction I was going, gaining or losing. After a while we learn what works and what does not and if all we can build is a 80% efficient oscillator I would take up knitting instead.
Next is efficient switching and my primary goal was a zero threshold diode/mosfet. That is to say the component switching or rectifying is not consuming any power or invoking losses and everything matters here. Look for 100% efficiency, let your thoughts be consumed by energy and efficiency and soon you may realize what we do is a shit show. It's a train wreck from start to finish and few have any idea what it takes to even approach 99% efficiency let alone exceed it. For example many think a 5 kg flywheel spinning for a few hours is efficient but I invented a 99% passive magnetic bearing for a flywheel that would spin for days. Do you understand?, one little flick with our hand and it would literally spin for days which even I found a little disturbing to my reality.
Initially the only thing that matters is energy flow and losses while energy is flowing which includes resistance and switching/rectification. Next is gain vs loss and energy transformation which is a way of saying how many forces are present in the system and how do I utilize these forces to move something like a Primary Field or a particle like an electron within said system... Work(F x D). You see all this electronics stuff I know is almost useless until we understand why were doing it and what the outcome is. Basically, as Tesla implied all our electronics lingo and supposed expertise can be thrown out the window and replaced with applied mechanics. Energy, Work as a Force acting on something over a distance on every level, transformation versus the delusion of consumption and creation/destruction.
Everything matters and unless we can rationalize what were doing and why with something in the way of a general direction built on a solid foundation then it's just cheap entertainment and little more.
Here's my point ladies, so if I am just another troll then surely you in your infinite wisdom could ask me any number of intelligent questions and expose me as such. So why not?, why the click bait with no justification let alone anything in the way of an intelligent response?. What have you got to lose because obviously you have no idea what your doing let alone where your going and as I said it's almost embarrassing to watch.
Quote from: AllCanadian
Here's my point ladies,...
Aaaah yes! The language that brings back some fond
memories!
The Comradery of the Military first experienced in Boot Camp
and continued throughout the Tour or Career of The Services.
Yes, some very good memories.
Music to my ears!
muDped
I get a little tired of FE threads turning into a radio shack convention where nerds come to impress there friends. I mean they could talk for days about how much they like a single transistor or years in the case of the magical modified bedini npn transistor. Don't get me wrong I am a fellow nerd and I do love electronics however at some point it becomes counterproductive in my opinion. I get it, at some point people lose sight of the goal or just give up and it becomes a hobby.
I also find it strange how most want to talk about everything except the basis and fundamentals of FE relating to any given device.
1) What is FE and how does it work in theory?.
2) Where do we start and how can we move our understanding forward?.
3) What is our real goal here and what are we looking for?.
4) What can we build to test our basic theories and learn more?.
SM basically covered most of this when he said it starts with understanding all the forces and fields present in a single piece of wire. We don't try to build a device because it won't work until we understand the premise and theory of operation. Did you know we can wrap a single long piece of wire around a tube like a Tesla coil, spin or rotate the tube on a horizontal axis and it generates a voltage at the wire ends?. Why do you suppose that is?, it requires no other coils or magnets or switches and you just spin it up and it generates a voltage.
As mind boggling as it may seem this single phenomena was the starting point for many FE inventors because it shows there is "something" external to our circuits we haven't fully considered. The inventors then built upon this simple premise and evolved it into what we know as FE devices which could generate kW of power. I think that's absolutely amazing.
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.15, 16:59:11
SM basically covered most of this when he said it starts with understanding all the forces and fields present in a single piece of wire. We don't try to build a device because it won't work until we understand the premise and theory of operation. Did you know we can wrap a single long piece of wire around a tube like a Tesla coil, spin or rotate the tube on a horizontal axis and it generates a voltage at the wire ends?. Why do you suppose that is?, it requires no other coils or magnets or switches and you just spin it up and it generates a voltage.
So if we apply voltage to the tubed coil, will it spin?
Mags
Quote from: AllCanadian question list2) Where do we start and how can we move our understanding forward?.
Start by examining the instances of Free Energy Manifestation
which didn't require any sort of
active device or
circuitry.It all comes from the same place.
We're being played with.
Those who are aware of the True History of Planet Earth and
all Life upon it will know. As will those who've seen the UFO
and who have seen that it has physicality.
All from the same source.
Mags
QuoteSo if we apply voltage to the tubed coil, will it spin?
No, to my knowledge it will not spin, how could it?.
A variant of a similar phenomena is also the reason some inventors could build a transformer which is not bound to the standard turns ratio. Think about that, a transformer we all know well which looks like a common transformer however the induced Secondary with fewer turns than the Primary has a higher voltage than the Primary. How can this be?, the turns ratio dictates the lower turn secondary must have a lower voltage however in fact it can have almost any voltage. Some of the old timers here may have heard about this.
For years this single problem drove me batty and as hard as I tried nothing worked and I simply could not wrap my mind around the concept. Unlike many I concluded the circuit was not the problem I was. My flawed and limited perception of how I supposed things must work based on what I was taught must be wrong and in fact it was. As well contrary to popular belief the laws of conservation of energy and mass are not violated nor are any new laws required to explain the phenomena.
It's quite a mystery isn't it?, it is this obscure phenomena which drives the TPU in my opinion because SM basically stated as much in his literature. Here is a hint, go through everything SM said as I did then copy and paste every line or statement which seems important but makes no real sense to a text file. Now consider every line of text as a piece of a puzzle and start rearranging them until a picture of what he was thinking starts to materialize... that's you answer.
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.15, 23:27:33
Mags
No, to my knowledge it will not spin, how could it?.
Well, if we can get voltage out of the coil if we spin it, then there must be some reaction to magnetic field of the earth, or something. So it should be only logical that if we applied voltage to the coil, it should be able to spin, using the same. Surely the electrons in the wire are not that 'loose' that it is just centrifugal force, or that they weigh soo much that they are all just forced to one end of the coil, like say water in a hose.
Mags
Mags
QuoteWell, if we can get voltage out of the coil if we spin it, then there must be some reaction to magnetic field of the earth, or something.
Yes there must be a reaction to "something" however we should not jump to conclusions concerning what it is. Assumptions are not what we want.
QuoteSo it should be only logical that if we applied voltage to the coil, it should be able to spin, using the same.
In many ways saying something "should be logical" is an appeal to authority or purity. It is a logical fallacy in the sense that it presumes because logic was invoked it must be more true which is not always the case. As I said, it relates to another phenomena we call the inducing/induced turns ratio which also does not apply. Think about that.
QuoteSurely the electrons in the wire are not that 'loose' that it is just centrifugal force, or that they weigh soo much that they are all just forced to one end of the coil, like say water in a hose.
How to put this, understand you have seen all the forces present in every high school science textbook. You know the answer because it's right in front of you and the only real problem is you will not allow yourself to see the problem from an alternate perspective. The reason I could see it is because of a mind game I like to play to evolve and learn new things. I pretend the most obvious and logical answer is not the right one therefore it must be something else. How many other things are present?, how do they apply and how could they fool me into making assumptions which are not true?.
You see it invokes another kind of logic, if we understood everything then we could do almost anything but we can't and are still basically acting on the level of semi-intelligent beings therefore our understanding and application of logic must be flawed. Ergo we must change and if we cannot change then we cannot evolve because evolution is change. We must change our mind with respect to how we think about everything.
Honestly even I find it strange that I could know all this stuff but now I have to sign off and go shovel a bunch of manure and move some hay, lol.
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.16, 20:01:13
Mags
Yes there must be a reaction to "something" however we should not jump to conclusions concerning what it is. Assumptions are not what we want.
In many ways saying something "should be logical" is an appeal to authority or purity. It is a logical fallacy in the sense that it presumes because logic was invoked it must be more true which is not always the case. As I said, it relates to another phenomena we call the inducing/induced turns ratio which also does not apply. Think about that.
How to put this, understand you have seen all the forces present in every high school science textbook. You know the answer because it's right in front of you and the only real problem is you will not allow yourself to see the problem from an alternate perspective. The reason I could see it is because of a mind game I like to play to evolve and learn new things. I pretend the most obvious and logical answer is not the right one therefore it must be something else. How many other things are present?, how do they apply and how could they fool me into making assumptions which are not true?.
You see it invokes another kind of logic, if we understood everything then we could do almost anything but we can't and are still basically acting on the level of semi-intelligent beings therefore our understanding and application of logic must be flawed. Ergo we must change and if we cannot change then we cannot evolve because evolution is change. We must change our mind with respect to how we think about everything.
Honestly even I find it strange that I could know all this stuff but now I have to sign off and go shovel a bunch of manure and move some hay, lol.
We are talking about spining the Tcoil on its axis, right?
Mags
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.16, 20:01:13
Honestly even I find it strange that I could know all this stuff but now I have to sign off and go shovel a bunch of manure and move some hay, lol.
Well, perhaps you could share with us some of this knowledge? Details please!
Pm
Quote from: Allcanadian on 2020.03.14, 18:04:38
Partzman
No worries and I can help you.
First you build a crystal radio which as you know has no conventional power source like a battery and tune it away from man made sources. What you hear is static/white noise or better put energy found everywhere in the universe. No need for mysterious particles, or magical processes or any such contrivance.
You may not know this but I have read the history of nearly every FE inventor we know of and most all of them said categorically that they started there research with 1)unexplained natural HV phenomena and 2)unpowered oscillators like the crystal radio. Have you done the research?, have you spent the time to understand what the FE inventors were saying and the premise they built on?. You see basically nowhere in the literature do they mention muon's or any other complex contrivance you gentlemen seem to be debating.
I mean the actual premise common to almost every FE inventor is so simple it's amazing so few have looked at it. Build an unpowered oscillator like a crystal radio and start trying new things to increase the signal strength any way you can by any means possible. This is the TPU and this is how SM said he got started just like every other FE inventor.
I just get a little cranky when I see how this has been turned into some kind of cult of who can use the most obscure terms and references and electronics jargon to impress there friends. Not unlike the Bedini fiasco which decades later is no closer to finding any answers than when it started. So where does the energy come from?... it ain't muon's I can tell you that much.
Chuckle! I built my first crystal radio when I was age five and I'm now 78. Have I done the research? Oh yeah and then some! I'll share something below.
In the literature FE inventors don't mention muons as you point out but have you considered why? Is it because they are not aware of this particle? What I do see are many FE inventors that claim to have working devices (questionable) and for the most part they don't have a clue as to the operating principle. Muons are
real whether you realize and accept it or not. I saw evidence of their frequency signature in my initial tests which were done with a coil assembly that was far from fitting the patent description plus, all the tests were run at extremely low levels. Far from being conclusive that A) They don't exist and B) They can't produce energy when they decay into electrons.
Oh and the TPU, so you know how it works, prove it! You go on about how we should go back through SM's remarks, collate the info and then we'll know. Are you not aware that the later info from SM was mostly disinfo, so myself and I'm sure others reading this would love to hear how you
think or
know how it works.
Energy from the surrounding aether, I've been aware of this for quite some time. Every electrical function of any and every electrical component owes it's operation to this energy. For example, attached is a scope shot of an asymmetrical transmission line in the form of a TPU that when pulsed at the correct frequency has a modest COP=1.41. We arrive at this from the Math channel Pin=3.274w for 10.29us which is then Uin=33.7uJ. The inductance of the Tline is 125uH and the ending current is 873ma so the ending energy is Uout = .873^2*125e-6/2 = 47.6uJ.
What creates this gain? The interaction with the aether especially during the input "off time" when the driving voltage on CH1(yel) is low and there still exists an increase in current in the TLine thus giving the appearance of a continuous inductive current ramp.
This could very well be the MO for SM's TPU could it not?
I've shown you one of mine, now show me yours!
Pm
Imagine that you are a strict business man who finds an inventor guy with a device that could change the energy market as we know it and be potetially worth trillions of dollars.
This inventor guy has been making videos to get whatever interest he can and in the process many shcemes develop with vhs and betamax videos being duplicated and passed around.
The different would be ceo's would put their brand on it and arrange $10,000 investments and a visit to witness the device in operation.
Bring your video camera by all means as this thing is taking off and the more the merrier but only for investors plaese.
More videos are made and the inventor who knows it works but for the heatn and cant understand why he isint the hero of our time yet.
Many of the schemes fail due to greed, disbelief, and an un willingness to disclose the simplicity other than its made of commonly available radioshack parts. and wood and cork!
this further fuels the skeptics as its way too good to be true .
After all if the secret gets out its worth nothing to the inventor.
After many failed schemes and burnt egos an astute gentlemen who is well versed with human nature ,us politics and the law comes along and buys the rights from the inventor with conditions of non disclosure,which the inventor must agree to as its in everybody's interest.
So along comes the internet and you tube and yes, the videos that revealed things that were not seen as vital at the time were put up from the remains of the failed investment schemes.
People are talking and all the vidoes are being analysed by tech people ...too many parts of the secret are in them in different ways and time is not on your side .
What strategy would you use to protect your investment?
The way I would LIKE to see it, is open source. But, I believe the inventor should be in some way compensated. Invested in, in some way as to further works on the idea and or even new ideas.
If an idea were open sourced, somebody has to make the product. And that takes money. Just because an idea is out, it doesnt mean everyone and anyone are able to build them for themselves. For example, the subject of this thread. Us as builders cant get it to work, if it actually does work, so far.
The only advantage to opensource would be that no one in particular owns the idea and be a soul profiteer. Thats a tough one. Somebody will make some changes and claim it for their own, some way some how. Like in the time of this corona crisis, people buy and hoard products, possibly to scalp for profit by making high profits from those that cannot get the products. If that goes on at lower levels of society, just imagine the ones with big money and power will do. Or someone will come about and say the Gov, etc. already has it and owns it. But then we could ALL say, what is the hold up?? Why not bring it out? Why invest trillions into nuke plants and cause possible dangers that they behold?
Its all a tough call in this 'business' we are in here. What do we do?
The main goal I would think for open source is to get the idea out there so that 'everyone' would know that FE does exist and that the idea of it cannot be buried. And what happens from there could be magical or rain doom on the world.
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2020.03.18, 04:53:51
The way I would LIKE to see it, is open source. But, I believe the inventor should be in some way compensated. Invested in, in some way as to further works on the idea and or even new ideas.
If an idea were open sourced, somebody has to make the product. And that takes money. Just because an idea is out, it doesnt mean everyone and anyone are able to build them for themselves. For example, the subject of this thread. Us as builders cant get it to work, if it actually does work, so far.
The only advantage to opensource would be that no one in particular owns the idea and be a soul profiteer. Thats a tough one. Somebody will make some changes and claim it for their own, some way some how. Like in the time of this corona crisis, people buy and hoard products, possibly to scalp for profit by making high profits from those that cannot get the products. If that goes on at lower levels of society, just imagine the ones with big money and power will do. Or someone will come about and say the Gov, etc. already has it and owns it. But then we could ALL say, what is the hold up?? Why not bring it out? Why invest trillions into nuke plants and cause possible dangers that they behold?
Its all a tough call in this 'business' we are in here. What do we do?
The main goal I would think for open source is to get the idea out there so that 'everyone' would know that FE does exist and that the idea of it cannot be buried. And what happens from there could be magical or rain doom on the world.
Mags
What strategy would you use to protect your investment?Wouldnt making the puzzle more complicated be your only real legal option?
Use the internet communication and ignorance in your favour?
Isint divide and conquor the oldest and the best business strategy ?
Are we not all part of that strategy in whatever form wether we can see it now or not?
All of sm's clues had no context ,the videos are a different story and that is the point.
Brilliant strategy that is working well.
Even Elon Musk released Tesla patents after successfully rising company profit. Do you expect someone who invest all money and time and become poor man suddenly release all information to build his invention only to see those who are rich have become even richer ? However I do not understand the strategy of some governments like India or African countries - they should invest a lot to have their own electricity and rise the level of living for citizens .
It is very good question which bothered me for years.
At the end I concluded that FE can be only released without compensation to inventor.
I know, many years of hard work and money invested?
FE is not any product. It is very specific, because we all need energy to live.
Fresh water, transportation, light, it's all around us.
The biggest slavery is energy slavery which can be shut down with FE.
It is a big need, not a luxury.
Not much for us which are fat and well fed,
but for billions who merely surviving all around the world.
If the inventor tries to make money, he is on suppression radar and
will be manipulated and killed, and FE stays buried.
I concluded that only way is, quietly send it to the world, and enjoy
for the rest of the life in fruits which it will bring.
Every morning wake up happy because I don't have a home heating bill to pay,
and can save that money for me, every month, till the end.
Forget about lost invested time and money.
Get over it.
Don't look who will profit on that, or not.
And just do it!
And when it comes to the surface, who will know more about it than inventor?
He can prepare in advance and make products driven by FE.
There are options.
That is how I see it.
We have to fall to loose it all.
At the end it doesn't really matter if we all win.
Whatisit
If you are not aware ,this forum is dedicated to open source
since day one.... Poynt and Peters path.
No business or other agendas ever ...regarding time and money spent ??
Here it is hard to imagine... or put a value to the years [decades] and cost /sacrifice of the open source membership [here and elsewhere
If ever there is a true OU discovery it will not be kept quiet.
I might add there are always interesting things to look at and experiment with.
But then again, every inventor have option "take the money".
It is on inventor.
Like a mouse driven by the smell of cheese into the trap, and death in agony.
Getting old, surrounded by poverty, polution and human misery,
tied to silence by the NDA and barrel,
dieing from inside, while worshiping the paper.
I am aware that this is right place.
And I am glad about it.
Mags
QuoteWe are talking about spinning the Tcoil on its axis, right?
Yes, spinning the coil on it's central axis while horizontal or parallel to the Earth and the phenomena is not reversible to my knowledge.
It consists of two disciplines...
1) Understanding that external fields can act on and induce tangible forces within a material or device.
2) Understanding that an external field can act on something in such a way that there is no perceivable reaction force. As Tesla said, a unidirectional force which does not and cannot reverse causing an equal and opposite reaction.