This thread is for discussion of power supplies for the AVEC Device...
On page 20 of The Aether Vortex Energy Converter: AVEC, Revision 1.0, it is stated:
QuoteIf you use a 1200V/1300V or 1400V cap there are a handful of mosfets that could do the switching rated at 1500V. The
current max should be well below 50ma. Protection diodes should be used. The snubber is a must; check out the tech
sheet pdf on snubber calcs sent previously.
This small current requirement is easily met with small flyback converters and neon power supplies.
This is what I use for most of my testing, constant voltage, constant current or constant power. One can be had on ebay for $100 (typically $400 surplus but original cost $$$$). They were made for electrophoresis work and are lab grade. Be careful...up to 2500 volts.
Edit: Some of these electrophoresis units put out pulsating DC and may not have internal filter caps. Easily modified though.
Thanks ION, been looking at some of these on ebay.
There are a couple of these PS2500's on ebay. Cheapest is $200. Other about $250. Add at least $50 for shipping in the US. Probably $150 to Canada.
Are these not PWM units? Would be nice to have a home-brew design all could easily build.
I'll add it to my to-do list of test equipment designs :-\
.99
Perhaps a toned-down variation of this (http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Variable-High-Voltage-Power-Supply/) might be an option.
Another page (http://www.cosmicrays.org/muon-power-supply.php) with some ideas.
.99
Snatched up a Hoefer PS-2500 for $100 + $37 shipping.
There are more good deals but need to save some coins.
Here's another from my collection that I use quite a bit:
Just bought a EC600 for 163USD
AS GK and Grumpy will soon see, these electrophoresis supplies are not toys, they are very robust and heavy units capable of delivering their max power rating continuously. They take a little getting used to.
The Hoefer units remember their last power setting and continue from that setting in the event of a brownout.
The EC600 will not start if it senses an EMF present at it's output so I use an isolating diode if my DUT has a battery ot capacitor which can backfeed.
The Hoefer unit goes to 2500 V, EC600 goes to 4000 V.
Nice to be able to limit voltage, current or power.
The wattmeter is also a very nice feature to have.
You simply cannot beat the bang for the buck these surplus units deliver. I am grateful to have these devices on my bench.
I felt an upgrade from the hand cranked supplies I built would be better.
Looks like I one-up-ed G on the V! LOL. And we shall see.
Stated in the AVEC thread: for now I only want a better HV control.
And I'm still rubbing sticks together. Wow that 4000v range looks very interesting. I can only imagine pulsing that high voltage at high frequency, what the effects would be. Its also a good tool for testing step down techniques. Hmmmmm.
Hi Poynt
QuotePerhaps a toned-down variation of this might be an option.
Another page with some ideas.
.99
That first link looks like a good one for brute force work. Can be built from scavenged parts. Regulation might be a problem with the voltage multiplier, but for Hi-Z constant loads probably ok.
The second link are flea power output good for light electrostatic work. I use corona wire supplies from old laser printers and copy machines......but for those who like to roll their own.....
Hi ION, thanks.
I found those links in a 2 minute search. Not sure if they were of any use or not. Perhaps it's best to just spend the $400 or so on an EC600.
We'll see.
;)
.99
Up to this point I have not seen enough HV used in most tests.
I went for the Hoefer because I wanted more current and the ability to easily adjust everything. I was getting good results with a 4000v converter at about 20ma.
Turn the current down and use the constant voltage setting and should do fine.
You got it!
I say 'Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead!'
My Variac monster supply can put out 5kv @ 6a. But really only voltage control.
Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.10.01, 02:48:33
I went for the Hoefer because I wanted more current and the ability to easily adjust everything. I was getting good results with a 4000v converter at about 20ma.
Turn the current down and use the constant voltage setting and should do fine.
A DIY circuit, 4kV, 70mA.
Possible starting point for a home-brew design.
.99
That psu is an exact copy of the one i built (That i copied ;D)
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=307.msg3878#msg3878
I am very impressed with it, regulation is really good.
Got an EC600 today on ebay.
Cost: $75
Shipping to Canada from the US: $125
.99
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.07, 12:17:50
Got an EC600 today on ebay.
Cost: $75
Shipping to Canada from the US: $125
.99
Does this mean you will be hitting the bench soon?
What a bargain for such a power supply, these i bet will go up in value as more OU people catch on.
Wish i could grab one myself, but the shipping and import tax to the UK puts it outside my current pocket money level :'(
I got mine yesterday also! ;D 160USD.
It is cleaned and setup on the bench. I turned it on and no smoke. Have to get HV wire for leads today.
What a find! I like the adjustments and meters.
Very valuable.
I also saw a self oscillating flyback to Villard bank powered off a 12v battery. Very cheap way to get HVDC. With that said this would be a good introspect into the small component count in the TPU to produce an HV bias. Starting to more and more like a stungun. ;D
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.02, 13:59:00
A DIY circuit, 4kV, 70mA.
Possible starting point for a home-brew design.
.99
Here is the current shout progress about my ec600"
(18:20:11) tao: :)
(19:42:47) poynt99: news:O How about I spent a couple hundred bucks on yet another boat anchor :D
(19:43:49) poynt99: Love that old HQ test equipment ;)
(19:44:42) poynt99: I hope this one works out of the box....they seldom do in my experience anyway
(19:45:24) poynt99: usually f@#$%ked up by some jackass that tried to repair the thing....
(19:46:23) poynt99: never done right, and they always seem abused. Well I guess that's how lab test gear goes most of the time
(20:46:31) giantkiller: your ec600 is trash?
(20:57:57) poynt99: Not sure GK. Ihaven't received it yet ;) I just referring to my previous experience buying all the HP etc. equipment I have
(20:59:59) poynt99: even the scope which I paid $2k for apparently has a fault in it. I'm hoping I can repair it
(21:00:42) giantkiller: I put a meter on mine in the 50v range . volts adsjust did nothing.
(21:00:50) poynt99: there is often a reason equipment ends up on ebay...it's a risk, but as long as you are handy and can get schematics, you might be ok
(21:01:54) poynt99: hang one sec while I pull up a picture of one
(21:03:51) poynt99: are you sure? I think the min voltage range is 500V
(21:06:19) poynt99:
(21:07:19) poynt99:
(21:08:17) poynt99: and pressing the "start" button doesn't give results?
(21:11:45) poynt99: hmm, seems E-C Apparatus is out of business
(21:11:50) poynt99: :(
(21:21:04) poynt99: I think Thermo Scientific bought the rights to E-C Apparatus
(21:21:27) poynt99: I have contacted them via email asking if a manual might be available for purchase.
(21:21:45) wattsup: ebay is the lake and we're all fishin.
(21:22:00) poynt99: you may contact them also: 1-800-874-3723
(21:22:12) poynt99: yep
(21:22:31) giantkiller: i am hooking up the 2meg res and a uwave diode to see if the external meter will register
(21:23:13) poynt99: good luck, hope it works
(21:23:32) poynt99: Do you get any output at all?
(21:23:44) poynt99: on any range or any setting?
(21:24:05) poynt99: I would not be surprised if the output is fused
(21:24:12) poynt99: have you opened the unit up?
(21:24:39) giantkiller: i am at 100vdc! looks like I have a unit so far. I need to make the resistor div to the meter for hv
(21:24:50) giantkiller: yes I have opened it up.
(21:25:08) wattsup: drum roll please.......
(21:25:32) giantkiller: I still have to test for the other switch settings.
(21:25:50) poynt99: ION mentioned that it wants to see a min load I think?
(21:25:51) giantkiller: there relays in it. And when they click you jump!
(21:26:30) giantkiller: you turn it on.
(21:26:40) giantkiller: then press the set button.
(21:26:59) giantkiller: press the norm button
(21:27:11) giantkiller: then press the dc on button and your good to go.
(21:27:31) giantkiller: after the set button you adjust
(21:27:43) giantkiller: then the norm button
(21:30:09) poynt99: kinda makes sense
(21:30:31) giantkiller: some shout arent getting thru
(21:30:47) giantkiller: up 400vdc at the 1k button
(21:31:12) wattsup: and it is supposed to go up to 4000v?
(21:31:12) poynt99: yeah, it's a known problem, sorry :?
(21:31:39) giantkiller: i need bigger resistor for the divider up to that.
(21:32:18) poynt99: what makes sense to me is to use "Normalize meters" to zero them, first. Then use "set reading" to adjust the voltage, then press the "start" button
(21:32:31) giantkiller: so all 3 knob are needed to set an output.
(21:32:40) giantkiller: .99 yeah but other way
(21:33:00) giantkiller: no you right
(21:33:47) giantkiller: so far this just shweet!
(21:34:09) poynt99: great!
(21:35:52) giantkiller: just took it upto 1kvdc! the unit holds it settings! the ext meter flipped out. max 1kv
(21:37:13) poynt99: ;)
(21:37:41) giantkiller: the 1kv test was on the 2kv, 20 watts, 5ma buttons
(21:38:04) giantkiller: so I go to fistells tomorrow for the big divider
(21:38:28) giantkiller: suhweet!
(21:39:04) giantkiller: the unit does take a moment to normalize and a bit to bleed down when off.
(21:40:01) giantkiller: i want to use the pots off a flyback to divid. any comments?
(21:40:48) giantkiller: i also have the huge diode from my exploding tv replica
(21:41:56) giantkiller: also the ec600 'at setting' light come on at the correct time.
(21:42:05) giantkiller: liths
(21:42:12) giantkiller: lights, finally
(22:03:47) giantkiller: i will call 1-800-874-3723
(22:05:41) giantkiller: oh yeah. I been upto 1k@5ma
Received my EC600 today.
Unfortunately, the seller did a very poor job of packing the unit and it has suffered significant chassis damage from a drop or two. >:(
I have not powered the unit up, and I'm not really inspired to now. I have emailed the ebay seller to see what they want to do about this.
We all make mistakes from time to time, but this thing weighs quite a bit, and how to pack it properly should have been a no-brainer. :-\ I hate when this happens!
.99
Also,
I received this email from ThermoFisher Scientific regarding my request for an EC600 manual:
QuoteDarren,
Please see attachment. This is the only information I am able to locate on the EC 600 power supply.
Thank you,
Chad E. Goddard
Technical Support
Separations Products
ThermoFisher Scientific
401 Millcreek Rd.
Marietta,Ohio 45750
Main Number: 800.438.4851
Please visit our Knowledge Base: http://www.thermoscientific.com/elabservice
For Microplate Instrumentation Products visit: http://www.thermo-reading-room.com/
Unfortunately, it is only an operator manual, and it is for a newer vintage of EC600 with digital meters. It still might be useful for understanding how to use the older one though.
I'll do a follow-up regarding the older vintage. We may end up having to trace the circuit out manually though if we want to go that far.
.99
Thanks. I will look it over.
the Hoefer PS 2500 got lost in the mail (US Mail of course...) - got a refund
Ordered an EC650 and an FB600 on Ebay for about $75 each - Score!!! (Hope they work...)
EC650 has two ranges: 6000v at 100ma and 2000v and 350ma
FB600 is like an EC600: 4000v at around 300ma (can't rememebr specs exactly)
waiting for some 1meg resistors and UHMW plate and will mount avalanche transistor strings on a strip of the UHMW turned sideways. I.e. the transistors will straddle the strip of plate and I'll mount that sideways on anothe plate. No more leakage.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.15, 23:50:51
Received my EC600 today.
Unfortunately, the seller did a very poor job of packing the unit and it has suffered significant chassis damage from a drop or two. >:(
I have not powered the unit up, and I'm not really inspired to now. I have emailed the ebay seller to see what they want to do about this.
We all make mistakes from time to time, but this thing weighs quite a bit, and how to pack it properly should have been a no-brainer. :-\ I hate when this happens!
.99
Hang on to this unit if you can not get a refund. Lots of EC600's around. I may wind up with an extra unit as the one I just paid for was too good to pass up (if it works).
EC650 and FB600 seem ok so far. FB600 was roughed up a little due to poor packing, but ok so far.
EC600 was roughed up a lot in shipping (poor packing like the FB600) - a board had even come out of it's slot. Red hv wires inside had hard dry insulation, replaced all with 600v wire wrapped with Kapton tape. Unit indicates leakage to ground when turned on. FB600 and EC600 perform same function and look a lot alike, but different controls and internals.
These thing are meant to sit on a bench not be thrown out the back of a truck. So, there are some good deals out there but getting an item that works and getting in one piece are "hit and miss".
@grumpy, .99
sweet deal on the ec600s. guess I am blessed. mine is in perfect working condition. It was originally in a college lab. still got the property id sticker on it.
Got quite the hum to it tho. Like industrial!
I wonder what it has seen?
operators manuals for EC600 and EC650:
http://cp-thermofisher.kb.net/display/4/kb/article.aspx?aid=258559&n=1&docid=419736&tab=search
http://cp-thermofisher.kb.net/display/4/kb/article.aspx?aid=258560&n=1&docid=404257&tab=search
I have inquired about service manuals and schematics, but don't expect them to have anything.
Yaman, just got myself an EC-600-90 on ebay. The guy shipped it today so should be here in about a week, I hope.
Nice unit!
I HOPE you requested that they pack it VERY well.
Let's hope it fairs better than mine did on the journey, and that it works.
btw, what did you pay?
.99
The Seller had listed it as Buy it Now for $399.99 plus there was a Make an Offer, so I offered him $150 which he accepted. Shipping added $40 more bucks to Canada and I did ask and he did confirm that it would be very well packaged. The proof will be in the pudding. So I hope it will be "pudding" out some good voltage soon.
:o Wow, you stole that one big guy....good goin' :)
I hope it works too.
.99
btw, was it shipped from US or Canada? (I paid $120US shipping for mine >:()
Yes, from California to Montreal by USPS Priority Mail International. From the USA I only order stuff that can be shipped by USPS, since it will only cost $5 brokerage fee, whereas UPS shafts me $30. Also USPS comes in with Canada Post that leaves a card at my home so I go and pick it up at the local post station, whereas on top of getting shafted by UPS, I or anyone in the family has to wait all day at home to sign for it.
Finally got some time (and space) to get some pictures of Mr. EC600's damage.
We'll see what the seller says.
.99
Hope you get to find a good one.
I've got about half a dozen or so various models but the EC600 is my favorite.
I've had these units over 10 years with no problems.
Looks like I started a trend here with the EC600
Hi ION. I doubt I will be looking any further than this one. Either this one works, or I'm done.
I've tried quite hard today to see if there is a service manual available for purchase on the web, but I came up empty. I sent an email to artisan-scientific on the slim chance they might have one or know where one can be obtained. The circuit is quite large and would take considerable time to draw out. There are about 10 adjustment pots with cryptic lettering telling what they are. If we can figure those out, that would probably be enough to get us by, as all the chips are in sockets and are readily available, i.e. MC14000 series CMOS (a lot) and several MC1458 op amps.
I can fix/straighten this unit, but it is going to require that I disassemble it. I have not turned it on in fear of a washer or something causing a short circuit.
The one good thing about this unit, is it doesn't appear that any jackass has tried repairing/botching it. :P
.99
Several of us have EC600's to help figure it out. I also have an FB600 (Fisher Biotech) which works.
The EC650 manual can loosely be applied to the EC600 for operational concepts and settings. IT has schematics and the general idea is the same. It has digital meters though.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.11.07, 00:37:14
The one good thing about this unit, is it doesn't appear that any jackass has tried repairing/botching it. :P
.99
Amen on that, I'll take an untouched dead unit anyday over someone else's repair botch job.
Let me know if you need any voltage readings and I'll pop the cover and get them to you.
Best of Luck
Thanks guys, we'll see how it goes.
;)
.99
Well, the guy was adamant that his packaging is usually adequate ::), but we managed to agree on a $100 refund.
So in the end I will have payed $100 for the unit, but it now requires that I disassemble it, straighten the chassis out, replace 3 nylon standoffs, check it out thoroughly, re-assemble, then try powering it up.
.99
The EC600 club.
We be bad! Kinda like Hog riders, eh?
The great thing about the EC600 are the circuit boards are routed very wide, meaning things are well spaced. Nothing crammed together.
@.99.
No broken circuit boards? Continuity checks ok on the transformers?
Last trip to the hospital today. Stitches out and doing fine. Don't have to keep the foot elevated any more. The bench is calling severely and bad weather is coming.
Stephan the barbarian wiped out my Lords of the ring thread on Overunity.com. I was teaching from that. Oh well. When clowns attack...
Jason also turned me onto cascode amplifiers. Simple, high gain, high bandwidth.
@all
Regarding the EC600-90, have any of you guys gotten any mileage out of it. Seems like the supply is very coil ohms dependent where it was specifically designed to drive the electrophoretic cells. It certainly does not like my own coils given they are not on the same ohms range.
I put a EC600-90 users manual here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Equipment%20Manuals/ec600-90/
So, from what I can understand form using this supply, is that if my coils do not meet the ohms values required by the supply, it will not permit the voltage/mA/watts settings I have given it and will only go up to as much as it can given the actual coil ohms I am using.
If there is no way to internally modify this supply to overide these functional limitations, then I will simply have to put this device back up for sale. lol
Any comments welcome.
wattsup
Added: I just received a fully functional FLUKE 97 50MHZ ScopeMeter that my brother in Ottawa got for me for $150 bucks. Incredible. This will enable me to freeze the screen and even more and no more "what voltage and frequency is this?" hassles. Now to find a second frequency generator. I would like to have three in all.
Quote from: wattsup on 2011.01.17, 21:06:38
@all
Regarding the EC600-90, have any of you guys gotten any mileage out of it. Seems like the supply is very coil ohms dependent where it was specifically designed to drive the electrophoretic cells. It certainly does not like my own coils given they are not on the same ohms range.
I put a EC600-90 users manual here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Equipment%20Manuals/ec600-90/
So, from what I can understand form using this supply, is that if my coils do not meet the ohms values required by the supply, it will not permit the voltage/mA/watts settings I have given it and will only go up to as much as it can given the actual coil ohms I am using.
If there is no way to internally modify this supply to override these functional limitations, then I will simply have to put this device back up for sale. lol
Any comments welcome.
wattsup
What specifically are your "load" requirements for voltage
and current?
This power supply has some sophisticated sensory and
control circuitry to limit load current and/or voltage level
and is best suited for high impedances.
It is possible though to use it in conjunction with an external
capacitor and an isolating charging choke to furnish very brief
high current impulses by means of some sort of switching circuit.
The current limited features of the power supply would enable
it to safely charge the capacitor between discharge pulses.
@Dumped
There is never anything specific, only what is happening at the moment in experiments that lead you to want to try some low amperage/high voltage biasing or pulsing. It would have been great.
I can't remember where I read this but it needs 300 ohms for the cells.
wattsup
Has anyone had any luck finding a schematic for an EC 600 (metered unit).
Mine went bad and I miss having it functional.
Also need a schematic for an EC 135 which is down.
Both units manufactured by EC Apparatus / Savant Instruments Inc. but they may be out of business.
Thanks in advance for any help.
I know a few of you have EC600 power supplies (analog metering) made by EC Apparatus Corp that may not be working.
I have taken some time out to attempt a repair on my unit as schematics have not been available, and the EC600-90 digital metered unit is quite different than the EC600, with only a few minor points of similarity.
In the process I have created a top PCB partial schematic, and a few rough block diagrams.
I now have most features of my unit working again and have acquired a fair knowledge base of the device operation.
Would anyone else here be interested in assisting with continuing the reverse engineering process?
All drawings are being made in Tinycad, and are not yet completed.
I am doing this in tandem with further research into the SM and the Spheric offerings.
It's good to keep the mind active, besides, I like solving puzzles.
Anyone who could actually get hold of a schematic would be a great help, then I could jut concentrate on a troubleshooting flow diagram.
I will post the partial info on my bench, which will be updated as new info comes forth.
Prices on EC600 units are now down to around $100 including shipping, a steal for such a beast of a supply.
E,
I'm tempted to box mine up and ship it to anyone that wants it. I really don't have the time or inclination to straighten out the chassis and put it all back together. Same goes for all my HP pulse generators.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2019.03.06, 15:05:47
E,
I'm tempted to box mine up and ship it to anyone that wants it. I really don't have the time or inclination to straighten out the chassis and put it all back together. Same goes for all my HP pulse generators.
Hi D
Should you decide to let it go, I will cover the shipping+ for the EC600 parts machine, as I could use the top pcb , meters and other parts. (we can discuss by email or pm)
Thus far I have had to replace all the 4066 cmos switches, (when the low voltage power supply fails, these get taken out) a couple of 4011's, three burned out resistors and a couple of sockets under which corrosion shorted out the traces. Had to repair many pcb traces where corrosion on the pcb had created leakage paths on some "sensitive" inputs, under the sockets, naturally!. The top pcb is a patchwork at this point, and although functional at the moment, it's long term reliability is questionable.
Let me know about your HP pulse gens, I might also be interested.
You might consider putting the stuff on ebay.
Update on the subject of power supplies for a Spherics device:
EC600 and EC650 are great for bench work. They are built like tanks and heavy to move around.
I use HV DC-DC converters now and hope to make a portable unit this way.