OverUnity Research

This topic is intended as a complement of the BTG research topic, to propose some alternative hypothesis about the principles of operation. The Idea is to guide the practical research to discover the actual physical concepts on which these devices could likely relay. So in first place the approach is not to try to replicate a specific device, or do reverse engineering.
In the thread we will have a look on some basic concepts and principles of some OU devices, like the machines from Ruslan, Akula, Dally and Kapanadze.
In the first part we will address some general considerations, and have a look at some OU machines which are accepted by conventional science. It may at the first glance look like off-topic, but it is really worthwhile to take the time to reflect about the involved principles and eventually draw analogies to electrodynamics.
In this place I want to give credit and express my gratitude to Sergei Deyna, a great Researcher from Russia. He has made a huge number of experiments in diverse areas of physics, and published many papers from which I have used some parts for posting in the forums with his kind permission.
It is well known from Newtons theory about thermodynamics, that energy cannot be created or destroyed. But it can be transformed in different forms, and it can be collected for our purposes. So if we want to understand, or replicate,  such a machine, in first place we have to ask  the two key questions:
1.) Where does the surplus energy come from?
2.)How does this happen, what are the involved physical principles?

Let's take as an example a well-known and accepted OU machine, the heat pump. I think most of you know about this device, which is widely implemented in refrigerators, heating systems, or reversible air-conditioning devices which can operate in both directions. It is well known by engineers, that a modern heat pump can have a COP up to 5( for heating systems with liquid medium temperature exchanger's) . That means for one unit electric power , five units of thermal energy can be obtained. Refrigerators use the very same system, but the obtained heat energy is normally dissipated without using it.
For the first question it is quite obvious that the extra energy comes from the thermal background energy of the environment (air, water, earth ).
The second question is also not very difficult if someone has some basic information about thermodynamics.
Anyway a detailed analysis will help us for better understanding and give some inspiration for other less known and accepted machines. Usually it is stated that there are  two main parameters, temperature and pressure, but this is an incomplete  view of the process.(the Carnot diagram in textbooks is plotted as a two coordinate cycle, but actually it should be three-dimensional, because of the missing third parameter) The third parameter which is missing in the diagram is the displacement of the medium, of special importance in resonant systems.
Under normal circumstances they will have directly proportional relationship, any increase in pressure will rise the temperature and vice versa.
This relates to a closed system, which does not interchange Energy with the environment, and is also called an adiabatic process. To get a non-adiabatic process, which is of our interest, some specific conditions have to be present. Of course the temperature exchangers on the hot and cold side are required in hardware, as well as a closed circuit filled with a medium. It can be any gas in case of thermodynamics, but for better performance special refrigerant is used, which will experience a change of its state of aggregate from gas to liquid and back, which increases the heat transfer by orders of magnitude. Then we need to create a difference of pressure inside the circuit,  usually a compressor will provide the propulsion of the medium, and a release valve will help to divide the circuit into two zones of different pressure. A heat exchanger will be placed in in each zone of pressure.
This setup produces a shift of phase between pressure and temperature, and this is what is making the process non adiabatic, and allows to transfer heat energy from a lower temperature level to a higher one, making possible all the before mentioned practical implementations of this devices.

Now let's make an analysis of another thermodynamic device:
There is another way to create a heat pump without a compressor and refrigerant, in which the working fluid itself (for example air or any gas) becomes a source of temperature differences and, under certain conditions, is capable of performing mechanical work itself.
Since all thermal phenomena are reversible, then by supplying thermal energy to the machine, mechanical work can be obtained at the output. Such devices are usually called thermoacoustic motors.
The simplest thermoacoustic machine consists of a resonator in the form of a tube and a regenerator made of a porous material, on the sides of which a temperature difference is created. In the simplest case, the regenerator can be a burner inserted inside the resonator (in the form of a vertically mounted glass tube) or a heated metal porous mesh, as shown in the figure below.
The optimal position of the flame is in the centre of the resonator, and the (heated) grid is approximately L / 4 distance from the lower end.
See the illustration 1 attached below.
The heat engine or thermoacoustic machine is of special interest for us, as it will help us to understand and draw analogy to various types of electrical self-feeding devices, which uses the principles of resonance.


The theory of the effect under consideration was created by Rayleigh in 1878, in which he discovered the principle that currently underlies all thermoacoustic.



And so, we will compare the principles of operation of the heat pump (generator) and the heat engine:
The principal of a heat pump:
1) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum rarefaction and/or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum compression , then this stimulates the transfer of heat energy.

The thermodynamic phenomenon underlying thermoacoustic is reversible.

The principle of operation of a heat engine :
2) if heat is transferred to the gas at the moment of maximum compression and / or heat is taken away at the moment of maximum rarefaction, then this stimulates gas oscillations.

The thermoacoustic device can be based on two modes of  resonant oscillations, on standing waves or on travelling waves.
Here  standing wave device in heat-pump mode with the graphs for displacement, pressure and temperature(attachement2):
Below in attachement3  we can see a travelling wave device in mode of a heat engine.
And in this video you can see a travelling wave resonator, which is used to produce electric energy from the vibrations of an attached magnet in a practical implementation:
https://youtu.be/F2cTgt9WEBE

An interesting point is that a standing wave will be established in a half-wave resonator, when pressure and displacement will perform harmonic oscillations. But in addition to pressure and displacement, the working fluid in the resonator also changes the temperature according to a sinusoidal law, especially in the pressure anti-nodes. Depending on whether the ends of the resonator are open or closed, the pressure anti-nodes will be located either in the centre of the resonator or at its ends, respectively. The illustration below shows diagrams in which pressure anti-nodes are visible at the edges and in the centre. See attachment 1
The hydraulic RAM pump is an example for a self-oscillating device, that uses a non-compressible medium to collect energy from a low level source and shift it to a higher level. There are many different ways to get free energy. Some relative simple to do, others much more complex. Why there are such few replications of the BTG devices from Ruslan, Akula, Kapanazde to name only a few? Are we all that dull  that we are not able to replicate? I don't think so, first and this is the most important cause, we do not completely understand the theories and underlying principles, and second, there are  skills of various types required to build them. And this is the main purpose of this thread, to fill the gaps of knowledge.
The reason for analysing the thermodynamic devices is that they will help to draw analogy to the electrical machines, and understand intuitively what's going on (domain of the right brain hemisphere). Thinking about the inconvenience with certain areas of textbook physics, I decided to decline to open disputes against them, as this would only lead to unfruitful discussion with those who are not ready to abandon the obsolete ideas. Instead I will simply trying to show alternative ways of explanations, and try to fit the pieces of the puzzle together, in order to attain step by step a more complete view of the whole picture.

In continuation we will begin to look for the analogies to the electric generators which are based on the principles of resonance for energy collection.



There is a good reason to take the thermodynamic devices, and specially the thermoacoustic resonators as examples , as analogues  to the principles of resonant electric devices.  Because a detailed understanding of its working principles will allow us to build the exact equivalents of electrical machines.
So let's make a list of the required hardware and the involved parameters first.
    Hardware:
1. The Resonator
2. The Medium
3. A hot heat exchanger
4. A cold heat exchanger
5. The Regenerator or Stack

     Parameters:
6. Pressure
7. Displacement of the medium
8. Temperature

Then we will begin to associate this with our electric devices. Some of these are easy and obvious, others will require some more studies. I will not be able to give you all answers yet, but I will show you a crucial piece of the puzzle, this will require to delve a bit into another areas of physics. This will make you understand why such few people have succeeded in replications of this machines.
Let's start with the more simple of the equivalents.

1. An Inductor is the Resonator
2. Electric charges are the medium.
3.  Kacher-Brovin or TC is equivalent to the heat source, and the "antenna coil" to the hot heat exchanger.
4. Earth ground wire or a massive metallic object is equivalent to the cold heat exchanger.
5. A certain section of the main resonator circuit (for ex. Grenade coil) is equivalent to the Regenerator
6. EMF is the pressure (Remember N.Tesla  was using the same term in electricity).
7. Current is Displacement of the medium(charges).
8. Atomic excitation(or ionization) is equivalent to Temperature.



Before we continue the thread I would like to make the following statement: I only  want to bring bits and pieces together. All this thread relays on the work of many researchers, I try to select what is of interest for our purposes and consider eventually unconventional theories  for a more complete understanding and to make the OU devices more predictable.

Let's now think about an experiment, that was performed in 1914 by the German physicians James Franck and Gustav Hertz. The experiment consisted in a vacuum tube in which a small amount of mercury was evaporated.  Here some extracts out of Wikipedia, where you can find more information if you wish:
Attachment 1:
The Franck–Hertz experiment was the first electrical measurement to clearly show the quantum nature of atoms, They discovered that, when an electron collided with a mercury atom, it could lose only a specific quantity (4.9 electron volts) of its kinetic energy before flying away. This energy loss corresponds to decelerating the electron from a speed of about 1.3 million meters per second to zero.
A faster electron does not decelerate completely after a collision, but loses precisely the same amount of its kinetic energy. Slower electrons merely bounce off mercury atoms without losing any significant speed or kinetic energy

Attachment 2:
Elastic and inelastic collisions of electrons with mercury atoms. Electrons traveling slowly change direction after elastic collisions, but do not change their speed. Faster electrons lose most of their speed in inelastic collisions. The lost kinetic energy is deposited into the mercury atom. The atom subsequently emits radiation, and returns to its original state.

These experimental results proved to be consistent with the Bohr model for atoms that had been proposed the previous year by Niels Bohr. The Bohr model was a precursor of quantum mechanics  and of the electron shell model of atoms. Its key feature was that an electron inside an atom occupies one of the atom's "quantum energy levels". Before the collision, an electron inside the mercury atom occupies its lowest available energy level. After the collision, the electron inside occupies a higher energy level with 4.9 electron volts (eV) more energy. This means that the electron is more loosely bound to the mercury atom. There were no intermediate levels or possibilities in Bohr's quantum model. This feature was "revolutionary" because it was inconsistent with the expectation that an electron could be bound to an atoms nucleus by any amount of energy.
In a second paper presented in May 1914, Franck and Hertz reported on the light emission by the mercury atoms that had absorbed energy from collisions. They showed that the wavelength of this ultraviolet light corresponded exactly to the 4.9 eV of energy that the flying electron had lost.
Attachment3:
Wavelengths of light emitted by a mercury vapor discharge and by a Franck–Hertz tube in operation at 10 V. The Franck–Hertz tube primarily emits light with a wavelength near 254 nanometres, whereas the discharge emits light at many wavelengths. Based on the original 1914 figure.

The relationship of energy and wavelength had also been predicted by Bohr because he had followed the structure laid out by Hendrick Lorentz at the 1911 Solvay Congress. At Solvay, Hendrik Lorentz suggested after Einstein's talk on quantum structure that the energy of a rotator be set equal to n*h*v. Therefore, Bohr had followed the instructions given in 1911 and copied the formula proposed by Lorentz and others into his 1913 atomic model. Lorentz had been correct. The quantization of the atoms matched his formula incorporated into the Bohr model. After a presentation of these results by Franck a few years later, Albert Einstein is said to have remarked, "It's so lovely it makes you cry."

The experiment with Neon, attachment 4:
In instructional laboratories, the Franck–Hertz experiment is often done using neon gas, which shows the onset of inelastic collisions with a visible orange glow in the vacuum tube, and which also is non-toxic, should the tube be broken. With mercury tubes, the model for elastic and inelastic collisions predicts that there should be narrow bands between the anode and the grid where the mercury emits light, but the light is ultraviolet and invisible. With neon, the Franck–Hertz voltage interval is 18.7 volts, and an orange glow appears near the grid when 18.7 volts is applied. This glow will move closer to the cathode with increasing accelerating potential, and indicates the locations where electrons have acquired the 18.7 eV required to excite a neon atom. At 37.4 volts two distinct glows will be visible: one midway between the cathode and grid, and one right at the accelerating grid. Higher potentials, spaced at 18.7 volt intervals, will result in additional glowing regions in the tube.

The last image shows the original device used by Franck and Hertz.

From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck%E2%80%93Hertz_experiment>

It should be remarked, that this experiment is one of the pillars of the modern quantum mechanics. If someone wants to dig a little bit deeper in this, there is a lot of information available on the internet. Of course the energy quanta for all substances  and for different levels of excitement can be calculated with an equation, using the atomic number and the involved electron shells.
Of special interest for us might be the values for copper: 1.4 eV (excitation) or 7.62 eV (ionisation).

Almost half a century later in 1959 the laser was discovered, based on the very same principals of quantum mechanics.

In the following extract  we can find some most interesting details:

An electron in an atom can absorb energy from light (photons), heat (phonons) or an EMF only if there is a transition between energy levels that matches the energy carried by the photon or phonon or it will absorb the matching potential from an applied EMF.  For light, this means that any given transition will only absorb one particular wavelength of light. Photons with the correct wavelength can cause an electron to jump from the lower to the higher energy level. The photon is consumed in this process.

When an electron is excited from one state to that at a higher energy level with energy difference ΔE, it will not stay that way forever. Eventually, a photon will be spontaneously created from the vacuum(?? To be discussed further) having energy ΔE . Conserving energy, the electron transitions to a lower energy level which is not occupied, with transitions to different levels having different time constants. This process is called "spontaneous emission". Spontaneous emission is a quantum-mechanical effect and a direct physical manifestation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The emitted photon has random direction, but its wavelength matches the absorption wavelength of the transition. This is the mechanism of fluorescence and thermal emission.

A photon with the correct wavelength to be absorbed by a transition can also cause an electron to drop from the higher to the lower level, emitting a new photon. The emitted photon exactly matches the original photon in wavelength, phase, and direction. This process is called stimulated emission.

The gain medium:

The gain medium is put into an excited state by an external source of energy. In most lasers this medium consists of a population of atoms which have been excited into such a state by means of an outside light source, or an electrical field which supplies energy for atoms to absorb and be transformed into their excited states.

The gain medium of a laser is normally a material of controlled purity, size, concentration, and shape, which amplifies the beam by the process of stimulated emission described above. This material can be of any state of aggregation: gas, liquid, solid. The gain medium absorbs pump energy, which raises some electrons into higher-energy ("excited") quantum states. Particles can interact with light by either absorbing or emitting photons. Emission can be spontaneous or stimulated. In the latter case, the photon is emitted in the same direction as the light that is passing by. When the number of particles in one excited state exceeds the number of particles in some lower-energy state, population inversion is achieved. In this state, the rate of stimulated emission is larger than the rate of absorption of light in the medium, and therefore the light is amplified. A system with this property is called an optical amplifier. When an optical amplifier is placed inside a resonant optical cavity, one obtains a laser.

At this point some might get some inspiration what we are looking for.
Ask yourself what have these processes in common, and how could this be associated with the thermodynamic and electrodynamic processes before mentioned.

I'm exploring "displacement of the medium"...

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.04, 03:00:35
I'm exploring "displacement of the medium"...

Do you have a topic where you are posting your results? Maybe I could comment something related...

Now I will summarize the Idea and proposed implementation in the BTG. 
1. A resonant circuit at a relative low frequency is used as principal resonator, and would be the equivalent of the thermoacoustic resonant conduit.
2. A high voltage source provides the potential needed for the atomic excitation. This has a low energetic cost, provided that the source dipole, or secondary resonator(TC, Kacher)is not depleted.
3. The antenna coil would be the equivalent of the hot heat-exchanger. The Drossel inductor might have the purpose to block the dielectric displacement wave and let pass only potential.
4. The bifilar section of the principal resonator is intended to produce a phase shift between the anti-node of potential and the associated atomic excitation. It is the analogue of the stack, or regenerator in thermoacoustics.
5. The long earth-ground wire has the purpose to dissipate the radiation of the excited atoms, when they are returning to their low energy state. It is most important to tune the oscillations of the ground current with the principal resonator, it has to be part of the oscillatory circuit. It would be the equivalent of the cold heat-exchanger, and cold spot in thermoacoustics.
If this 5 components are properly set up with the correct parameters, there should appear an undampened oscillation in the principal resonator by a positive feedback in each cycle. Then some amount of the gain can be extracted by
6.the removal coil or similar means for a regulated extraction of  usable energy and provide the feedback for the needed input power. 

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.04, 13:23:58
Now I will summarize the Idea and proposed implementation in the BTG. 
1. A resonant circuit at a relative low frequency is used as principal resonator, and would be the equivalent of the thermoacoustic resonant conduit.
2. A high voltage source provides the potential needed for the atomic excitation. This has a low energetic cost, provided that the source dipole, or secondary resonator(TC, Kacher)is not depleted.
3. The antenna coil would be the equivalent of the hot heat-exchanger. The Drossel inductor might have the purpose to block the dielectric displacement wave and let pass only potential.
4. The bifilar section of the principal resonator is intended to produce a phase shift between the anti-node of potential and the associated atomic excitation. It is the analogue of the stack, or regenerator in thermoacoustics.
5. The long earth-ground wire has the purpose to dissipate the radiation of the excited atoms, when they are returning to their low energy state. It is most important to tune the oscillations of the ground current with the principal resonator, it has to be part of the oscillatory circuit. It would be the equivalent of the cold heat-exchanger, and cold spot in thermoacoustics.
If this 5 components are properly set up with the correct parameters, there should appear an undampened oscillation in the principal resonator by a positive feedback in each cycle. Then some amount of the gain can be extracted by
6.the removal coil or similar means for a regulated extraction of  usable energy and provide the feedback for the needed input power.

Hi Vidura,

I appreciate your approach, everything is clearly stated, the scientific references are very enlightening, and I like the idea of reasoning by analogy, or transposition, consisting in taking a principle such as that of a heat pump to apply it in another field, e.g. to an electrical device.

On the other hand, the references to Ruslan, Akula, Kapanadze do not bring anything, nobody credible has duplicated their so-called inventions, whereas any engineer can reproduce an electric diagram properly described, even if he does not understand it.

To continue a bit in generalities, I also believe that we should look more deeply into the notion of "OU". If a device produces OU, it is clear that the COP is > 1.
But a COP >1 does not imply, from my point of view, OU, a notion that I reserve for "free energy". Indeed, thermal energy is a degraded energy. Even if it is true that we take much more energy from the environment than the electrical energy that powers the heat pump, we cannot transform this energy gain into electrical energy that powers the pump. In other words, the device cannot be self-sustaining, so we will always have to pay for the initial electrical energy that powers the pump, which is not free energy.

Now let's come to the synthesis of your Reply #8. A high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself. The excitation of atoms requires a current. Because the voltage is high, the current is low, but we still have P=U*I. I have a 50 KV, 3 mA power supply. 3mA is not much, but it's still 150W, that's the maximum power supplied, and as the efficiency is not 100%, the electrical energy taken from the mains is still higher.
So I don't understand where you hope to take the initial energy, the one equivalent to the thermal energy of the environment in the case of the heat pump.

Thanks Vidura, I quite enjoyed your dialogue.    I completely agree that it's important to focus on equivalent principles and try to understand where the asymmetries exist in order for us to better understand and exploit it.

The Heat pump analogy as applied to parametric variation is something I've been pondering for years.  A simple principle and one that can be modeled mathematically, yet difficult to physically construct and quantify.


IMO boils down to 'what is a simple analogy for operation and what is the simplest embodiment to demonstrate it?'.
Note that this doesn't need to be OU, it just needs to demonstrate the asymmetry.  If it turns out to be easier to destroy energy than synthesize it, that would be just as remarkable as being able to pull it from the vacuum. >:-)



(tangentially related clip of mine: https://www.bitchute.com/video/6DsqNeO2wrxD/  :P)

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.04, 12:44:23
Do you have a topic where you are posting your results? Maybe I could comment something related...

I've been building the AVEC device that "Spherics" disclosed off and on for several years.

Just last weekend, I achieved the necessary pulse parameters with a single channel.  Now I'll build the other 5 channels and hope to test in a couple of weeks.

The device is supposed to operate by moving the ether medium...

Quote from: F6FLT on 2023.01.04, 14:55:48

To continue a bit in generalities, I also believe that we should look more deeply into the notion of "OU". If a device produces OU, it is clear that the COP is > 1.
But a COP >1 does not imply, from my point of view, OU, a notion that I reserve for "free energy". Indeed, thermal energy is a degraded energy. Even if it is true that we take much more energy from the environment than the electrical energy that powers the heat pump, we cannot transform this energy gain into electrical energy that powers the pump. In other words, the device cannot be self-sustaining, so we will always have to pay for the initial electrical energy that powers the pump, which is not free energy.

Thanks F6FLT.
I appreciate your critical observations. Although IMO it should be possible to back loop a heat pump working at optimal parameters and using the most efficient way to convert the heat to electricity again, but it is clear that would not provide a practical solution, as it would be expensive and the margin of usable excess energy  very small.

QuoteNow let's come to the synthesis of your Reply #8. A high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself. The excitation of atoms requires a current. Because the voltage is high, the current is low, but we still have P=U*I. I have a 50 KV, 3 mA power supply. 3mA is not much, but it's still 150W, that's the maximum power supplied, and as the efficiency is not 100%, the electrical energy taken from the mains is still higher.
So I don't understand where you hope to take the initial energy, the one equivalent to the thermal energy of the environment in the case of the heat pump.

The important question where does the "firewood" come from:
The statement that a high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself is certainly true for a closed system, an adiabatic process without interchange with the environment. Under normal conditions the high voltage and the level of excitement will be simultaneous, in phase. As the atom acquires a higher energy level it absorbs photons of certain range from the environment(or background radiation) to compensate  for the stability of the atom. when the emf decreases, it emits them again. The process becomes non-adiabatic when a phase shift between the applied EMF and the level of excitement is achieved, then the system becomes opened for an exchange of energy with the background radiation. The absorption of this radiation would become possible beyond the  energy level of applied EMF, as the maximum of atomic excitement would be time differing from the former. Similar to the phase shift of temperature and pressure in thermoacoustics.
I will remind you that for the moment it is a hypothesis, but if it is possible to proof the effects experimentally, it might be considered as a valid theory.
Regards Vidura.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.04, 15:56:48
I've been building the AVEC device that "Spherics" disclosed off and on for several years.

Just last weekend, I achieved the necessary pulse parameters with a single channel.  Now I'll build the other 5 channels and hope to test in a couple of weeks.

The device is supposed to operate by moving the ether medium...

I will have a look on it, thanks.

Quote from: Hakasays on 2023.01.04, 15:38:38



IMO boils down to 'what is a simple analogy for operation and what is the simplest embodiment to demonstrate it?'.

Agreed, It might be a good approach to think about the simplest way to proof the concept, and not to stick too much on the devices shown by the well known authors.

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.04, 18:02:22
...
The statement that a high voltage cannot excite atoms to energy levels higher than the energy it supplies itself is certainly true for a closed system, an adiabatic process without interchange with the environment. Under normal conditions the high voltage and the level of excitement will be simultaneous, in phase. As the atom acquires a higher energy level it absorbs photons of certain range from the environment(or background radiation) to compensate  for the stability of the atom. when the emf decreases, it emits them again. The process becomes non-adiabatic when a phase shift between the applied EMF and the level of excitement is achieved, then the system becomes opened for an exchange of energy with the background radiation. The absorption of this radiation would become possible beyond the  energy level of applied EMF, as the maximum of atomic excitement would be time differing from the former. Similar to the phase shift of temperature and pressure in thermoacoustics.
I will remind you that for the moment it is a hypothesis, but if it is possible to proof the effects experimentally, it might be considered as a valid theory.
Regards Vidura.

Thank you for this important clarification. The guiding idea is therefore that the voltage which would excite the atoms would be "aided" by the background radiation. This speculation is daring but worth testing.

A little bit profound view of the proposed principle: It shall be remarked that I try to follow classic physics  and conventions as far as possible.  Let's consider a conductor in solid state of aggregation: Composed by atoms whose positive charged nuclei are bound in the molecular lattice and  the negative charged electrons hold in their orbits by the nuclear forces. A conductive material differs from the dielectric in the availability of valence electrons, which can be dislocated by a minimal emf applied to the conductor, and move then freely across the molecular structures. The free electrons are repelling each other cause of the coulomb force but they can't leave the conductor under normal conditions. For this reason they behave similar to a gas and can be compressed or rarefied by the forces of an applied EMF. At higher energy levels beside the already free valence electrons  also the other electrons in orbits closer to the nuclei are excited and rise to higher orbits, and get eventually dislocated when the atoms reach the ionisation level. In this case they will add to the displacement of those already present. We could conclude, that the energetic level of excitement increases in proportion to the distance between the nuclei and the electrons and vice versa. As the EMF, or other source of external energy(radiation, heat for example) diminishes, the electrons will return to their lower energy state occupying an orbit closer to the nuclei, while emitting a photon of the matching wavelength. When such a photon impacts on a nearby object of the same material it would likely be absorbed rising it's excitement level, which under the right conditions(resonance) would lead to the appearance of an EMF in this separate conductor. In this case a phase shift between the two EMF should be observed, not at 180º like in the case of capacitive coupling, but 90º  because when the potential of the emitting conductor falls, the one of the receiver would rise simultaneously. If it is possible by such means to delay the level of excitement relative to the potential, we could assume that there are possibilities to build "charge resonators" powered by the background radiation of the environment, as the electrodynamic analogues of the thermoacoustic resonators.   
One more comparison with thermodynamics: At a surficial view we could think that the heat in a heat pump comes from the energy applied to the compressor. But also in this case the phase shift between pressure and temperature makes it clear that this is not the case. The energy of the compressor rises the gas pressure , concentrating the already present thermal energy of the medium. It would be including be possible to recover an important amount of the prime mover energy at the release valve(replacing it by a turbine for ex.) without affecting the level shifting of temperature. Also the COP of this devices makes it clear, that the  heat energy does not come from the compressor, unless the small fraction of its losses.
An argument for a similar process in atomic excitation by means of an EMF: The excitation would be caused by coulomb forces acting upon the elementary charges which composes the atoms. For this process no current flow is required and should be inhibited by the layout of the system(open circuit).
If phase shift is possible, the absorption of background energy would happen at a different time when the potential is lower.

If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.07, 03:35:00
If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.

Yes, therefore I stated that I adhere to classics "as far as possible" but there are grey zones and misconceptions , which eventually will be corrected, when the proofs are unshakeable. Science today is not the same than a century ago and will continue changing.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.07, 03:35:00
If concepts leading to overunity or free energy were found in currently accepted physics, then we would have these devices all around us.

This leads me to believe that the concepts leading to the operating principles of these devices will only be found by looking beyond what is normal.

I agree, it is indeed the right method O0, looking for anomalies in what is not well known, or pushing to the limit what is.

But physicists do it too. Their main concern is to find a "new physics (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22new+physics%22&btnG=)".
The competition is tough!  :)

Still working out a theoretical model in details, I will share some more thoughts. In the proposed system the negative charged electrons are the medium, for conductors in solid state of aggregation only those are able to some degree of displacement. From this follows that this charges are the carriers of the different manifestations of energy in question. Firstly there is the inherent electric charge of opposite sign  of electrons and nuclei giving rise to the coulomb force or potential energy, but there is also the kinetic energy of the electrons which balances the former in a dynamic equilibrium. The centrifugal force holds them in orbits, like planets in the solar system balances the attraction to the sun with the rotational movement.  Here I argue that the total energy of an atom is constant, when the potential energy decreases, the kinetic energy increases, and vice versa. For example when a spaceship is intended to leave a planet, it has to increase its kinetic energy, while the potential energy  due to the reduction of gravity, in this case will  also reduce in proportion to the distance. This would lead us to the conclusion, that the formula E=m.c2 is incomplete, as the kinetic energy of the orbiting electrons is not taken into account in this formula. Some food for thoughts for those who are not satisfied with classic physics.
From various experimental observations we know already about the exchange of photons(radiation) when electrons are accelerated or decelerated. X-rays, the Laser (besides visual light many other wavelengths of photons included), the Frank Hertz experience.
When the distance between nuclei and electrons increases, the increase of the coulomb force between the nuclei (repelling force) would make the molecular structure unstable, therefore nature intervenes by balancing the lost equilibrium with photons. Including I argue that a constant inflow of energy has to be there, as a rotating charge will dissipate energy continuously. The same is true for solar systems in the macro cosmos. A planet like the earth with the oceans on its surface would inevitably slow down the rotation and eventually stall, as  it would continuously lose momentum, unless the kinetic energy is kept at a constant value by a regulating force.
Back to the atoms. When I made a calculate for the first ionization level of copper, which is 7.72eV using Planck's formula I got corresponding wavelength of 160.6 nm. This is situated between UVc  and x-ray range. For the excitation energy I found 1.4eV and this gave a wavelength of 885nm in the infrared spectrum area. It is well known, that the properties of photon radiations is varying considerable with its wavelength regarding penetration and interaction with different materials, so there is still a lot  to explore.

Our way to look into OU, we can start from the beginning when knowledge about electricity was very minimal. There was no knowledge whatsoever, that poles are opposite phases and matter is double charged, as some call it.  On top of it, the motor was built using only one side of the coil, which equals 50% of its potential.

Second, the coils were built in a way that anodes were enclosed, where they could not express themselves, diminishing potential even further. The knowledge about nature's processes did arrive about 100 years ago, but it was not applied to the motor.

For this reason, our group studied electricity first, with many experiments, that will be shared on this board or at our own bench.

We are all expecting something spectacular like the big bang for OU, but now we see that it is much simpler then we thought. Knowledge and a lot of common sense can make big leaps and improvements in our research.

The question is – where is all that extra power coming from? The simple answer is knowledge and common sense. Even better, from nowhere, it was always there.

We grow and we start to see further. Now we know that heat is caused by one coil working alone, which is not nature's process. Nature uses 2 coils side by side, one clockwise and the other counter clockwise. With one direction it creates 2 effects: first is push from outside inward towards the centre to create gravity or compression. The other effect is to push from the centre outward to create expansion. With this process, firing only one coil would create its reaction on the other side which does not need any input of power on our side.

This is the sole reason that there is no wasteful heat. A new video is coming shortly with a much better visual explanation.

Bets Regards

QuoteQuote from: Grumpy on 2023-01-09, 21:14:00

    do these devices have a common theory of operation?

There is a common pattern in this devices. Note that the builders where in most cases radio technicians, therefore their explanations and also implemented technic approaches are related to this theme. Regarding the principles, there are differing versions, but nothing thoroughly verified. Some speech of "pushing the magnetic field with high voltage" others refer to nuclear magnetic resonance. Lately I have read a translation of a video, where Ruslan explains how the different parts of his device interact. He was careful not giving any explanations about the physical principals, stating that it was good enough to know how to set up the parameters, and light the lamp. :) 
Not for me, but anyway as it is the only detailed description I found of what supposedly happens in the device, I will post in brief:
First the tesla coil, or Kacher. Its function is of course to produce the HV HF, and is a 1/4 wave resonator. He describes the spiral transmitter as a capacitor, and the choke in-between is used for fine-tuning. The grenade coil is the reception coil, the spiral is placed over the partially cancelling sector. On the other end(normal wound)  a second inductor is coupled, which is driven in anti-phase(180º). This sets up the standing wave tuned to 1/2 wave. The modulation has to be synchronised to apply the pulses in the potential anti-node when it has passed its maximum. He emphasized the importance of the ground wire, which has to be tuned in syntony with the tesla resonator, which can be done eventually winding it up a few turns near a current anti-node. In the circuit of the grenade the principal capacitor, and a bridge rectifier with another capacitor across.
To tune this all together requires certainly some skills in radio engineering :)   

The general description is sound, of course as you know from the earlier posts, my hypothesis is not according the before mentioned, below description how this would be explained in context with it.

The TC produces the scalar potential waves(could be described as dielectric pressure waves), when it is resonating with the ground wire it produces the actual "pumping force" of the medium(electrons).  The grenade and the secondary inductor are two LCR resonators, which have to be tuned to the same frequency, but in anti-phase. Two current waves(displacement of charges) in opposite direction give rise to an standing wave. The anti-node of voltage has to be established in the sector of the cancelling windings under the spiral. In the moment when the anti-node has passed its maximum(maximal pressure of electrons) the impact of scalar waves on the charges will rise their kinetic energy accelerating them faster and  absorb photons from the environment to keep stable. Then in the phase of relaxation the charges propagate (more precisely their kinetic energy) across grenade winding to the ground wire while decelerating relative to the positive charges of the conductor emitting photons in this process.
A gradient of the atomic excitement  is needed in the grenade coil, where the potential gradually decreases from the spiral to the part which connects to the ground wire. As the  turns of  adjacent layers are close to each other's, the emitted photons of decelerating charges will excite the neighbouring turns, but with diminishing energy level towards the ground wire which has the function of a dissipator in addition to be part of the resonant system.
Note that this is my particular interpretation, and might change as experimental results proof or discard some concept.
Regards Vidura             

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.10, 02:55:20
The anti-node of voltage has to be established in the sector of the cancelling windings under the spiral. In the moment when the anti-node has passed its maximum(maximal pressure of electrons) the impact of scalar waves on the charges will rise their kinetic energy accelerating them faster and  absorb photons from the environment to keep stable. Then in the phase of relaxation the charges propagate (more precisely their kinetic energy) across grenade winding to the ground wire while decelerating relative to the positive charges of the conductor emitting photons in this process.

Absorption/emission from rapid acceleration/deceleration sounds a lot like Bremsstrahlung (Braking radiation).
It would explain why 'manipulation of electrons' is such a common theme in many purported devices, and also why many inventors end up having health problems (accidental X-ray/UV ray/? emissions)
It also explains the need for impulses/disruptive discharges (rapid acceleration/deceleration component) as well as high-Q resonance (efficient recycling+extraction of .energy). ;)

QuoteAbsorption/emission from rapid acceleration/deceleration sounds a lot like Bremsstrahlung (Braking radiation).

There are a whole lot of effects known and recognized in physics which are relaying on the interaction of photons when the kinetic energy of electrons changes, including methods like X-ray spectroscopy and spectrometries of various types. What called my attention is  that apparently in textbooks nothing can be found about the effects produced by accelerating or decelerating electrons in electric conductors, transmission lines , inductors and capacitors. It would certainly be worth to investigate with modern equipment if the measured results are consistent with those observed in cathode ray collisions.   

Quote from Grumpy:

QuoteWhy is "the process of excitation or ionisation of nearby conductors by the scalar waves of potential" the most crucial effect?  What causes this effect?
What is the "phaseshift" supposed to do?

Reviewing the topic I found this question.
Here I have to correct my statement, and be more precise:  Regarding the transmission of scalar potential, as I understand it is propagating across the dielectric, which can be matter, or simply space. The dielectric , consisting of dipoles, are polarised by high frequency potential, or short pulses with fast rise-time. This produces a coherent electric wavefront propagating towards the receiver. But actually the most important thing  to extract energy from the environment is the phase-shift between potential and excitation or ionization level. Why? Because similar as in thermodynamic  when pressure and temperature are in phase, there is no energy exchange with the environment. The (thermal) energy contained in the medium remains there when pressure and temperature changes simultaneously. Only when the maximum values of the parameters occurs at different time, the pumping process starts. The same for potential and atomic excitement, when these parameters are time differing, then an energy exchange with the environment can be expected. And depending on how the gradient is set, we could achieve pumping of atomic excitement, or stimulate oscillations in the medium. Of our interest would be the latter of course, as from the oscillations of electrons useful work can be obtained.
Vidura

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.11, 10:18:07
Quote from Grumpy:Reviewing the topic I found this question.
Here I have to correct my statement, and be more precise:  Regarding the transmission of scalar potential, as I understand it is propagating across the dielectric, which can be matter, or simply space. The dielectric , consisting of dipoles, are polarised by high frequency potential, or short pulses with fast rise-time. This produces a coherent electric wavefront propagating towards the receiver. But actually the most important thing  to extract energy from the environment is the phase-shift between potential and excitation or ionization level. Why? Because similar as in thermodynamic  when pressure and temperature are in phase, there is no energy exchange with the environment. The (thermal) energy contained in the medium remains there when pressure and temperature changes simultaneously. Only when the maximum values of the parameters occurs at different time, the pumping process starts. The same for potential and atomic excitement, when these parameters are time differing, then an energy exchange with the environment can be expected. And depending on how the gradient is set, we could achieve pumping of atomic excitement, or stimulate oscillations in the medium. Of our interest would be the latter of course, as from the oscillations of electrons useful work can be obtained.
Vidura

Well-said, and I think it serves as a good theoretical foundation to build a model on. :)
The trick will finding a good mechanism to achieve this that's still consistent with established principles.
We have several possible avenues to explore with this, such as parametric variation of L/C, hysteresis, curie-points, seebeck, bremsstrahlung, and likely plenty others.

The nice thing using a concept-first approach is that one does not necessarily need to build a 'self-runner' to demonstrate synthesis/destruction of energy.  Just enough to demonstrate the principle, like building a high-school magnet motor. :P

I don't see how the concepts in this thread can lead to an OU device.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.11, 15:13:14
I don't see how the concepts in this thread can lead to an OU device.

The absolute core concept I suspect is that of a heat pump, and how it can achieve COP>1.
In that case, thermal energy is assumed to be ever-present in usable quantities, and efficient pumping+manipulation of it is what allows us to achieve COP>1 heating/cooling capability.

Of course that doesn't give us anything directly engineerable in the EE world, but it does show the similar elements to look for, notably having the equivalent of an elastic working fluid capable of absorption and emission.

Maxwell's demon...

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.11, 16:21:56
Maxwell's demon...

;D

Quote from: Hakasays on 2023.01.11, 17:13:13
;D

ROFL!!!

Dear Hakasays.

In your recent post with the Stirling cycle engine, this is an area that I've had a great deal of practical experience with. Having built several different working models over the years. I still have a kit or two available lol.

The Phillips Rhombic engine from the late 1950's was almost as fuel efficient as the average Petrol engine of the time.

Something that I don't know is whether anyone has tried using the " gas absorption " refrigerator principle in a Stirling cycle engine design. In my opinion this should greatly increase the overall efficiency of the engine because the heat at the hot end makes the cold end. The condenser radiators heat could then be cycled back to the hot end.

I have also wondered if Tesla and his liquid Nitrogen production equipment was thinking about using ambient air to do work by a reverse action flame licker/gulper vacuum engine? 

The photo is of a half scale replica of the Robinson patent hot air engine from a kit that I produce. The video is of my recently restored 1880's Lowne patent atmospheric engine. Imagine you filled the cooling tank with liquid Nitrogen, it would run on the air surrounding it....

https://youtu.be/RUkslYmSE_0

Cheers Graham.

Quote from: Grumage on 2023.01.11, 18:28:14
Dear Hakasays.

In your recent post with the Stirling cycle engine, this is an area that I've had a great deal of practical experience with. Having built several different working models over the years. I still have a kit or two available lol.

The Phillips Rhombic engine from the late 1950's was almost as fuel efficient as the average Petrol engine of the time.

Something that I don't know is whether anyone has tried using the " gas absorption " refrigerator principle in a Stirling cycle engine design. In my opinion this should greatly increase the overall efficiency of the engine because the heat at the hot end makes the cold end. The condenser radiators heat could then be cycled back to the hot end.

I have also wondered if Tesla and his liquid Nitrogen production equipment was thinking about using ambient air to do work by a reverse action flame licker/gulper vacuum engine? 

The photo is of a half scale replica of the Robinson patent hot air engine from a kit that I produce. The video is of my recently restored 1880's Lowne patent atmospheric engine. Imagine you filled the cooling tank with liquid Nitrogen, it would run on the air surrounding it....

https://youtu.be/RUkslYmSE_0

Cheers Graham.

I wish you'd build a wood burning engine with an attachment for a car alternator. Now that would be practical free energy - (Assuming you have access to free wood.) Plus you'd sell loads. It's also technically carbon neutral....

What we also need is a nice (FE) source for hydrogen !
Grum please keep the little grey cells pondering how to use that (H)

BTW
Luv that flame gulping wee beastie !
It's really something special !!

Thanks for sharing

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.11, 22:44:54
I wish you'd build a wood burning engine with an attachment for a car alternator. Now that would be practical free energy - (Assuming you have access to free wood.) Plus you'd sell loads. It's also technically carbon neutral....

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

Quote from: Grumage on 2023.01.11, 18:28:14
Dear Hakasays.

In your recent post with the Stirling cycle engine, this is an area that I've had a great deal of practical experience with. Having built several different working models over the years. I still have a kit or two available lol.

The Phillips Rhombic engine from the late 1950's was almost as fuel efficient as the average Petrol engine of the time.

Something that I don't know is whether anyone has tried using the " gas absorption " refrigerator principle in a Stirling cycle engine design. In my opinion this should greatly increase the overall efficiency of the engine because the heat at the hot end makes the cold end. The condenser radiators heat could then be cycled back to the hot end.

I have also wondered if Tesla and his liquid Nitrogen production equipment was thinking about using ambient air to do work by a reverse action flame licker/gulper vacuum engine? 

The photo is of a half scale replica of the Robinson patent hot air engine from a kit that I produce. The video is of my recently restored 1880's Lowne patent atmospheric engine. Imagine you filled the cooling tank with liquid Nitrogen, it would run on the air surrounding it....

https://youtu.be/RUkslYmSE_0

Cheers Graham.

I think there is much to be learned from building+experimenting with model engines.  I've built a few myself these recent years.

We should start an 'engine' thread to cover things like steam engines, Tesla Turbines, and other novel/efficient setups like the Bourke engine ;D  They might not be OU directly, but it's useful and practical information and skill-building for someone working in direction.  Much like the famous 'DIY catalytic hydrocarbon cracking+refining+distillation' thread on EnergeticForum: http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/energetic-forum-discussion/renewable-energy/7255-how-to-turn-plastic-waste-into-diesel-fuel-cheaply/page82

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.11, 22:44:54
I wish you'd build a wood burning engine with an attachment for a car alternator. Now that would be practical free energy - (Assuming you have access to free wood.) Plus you'd sell loads. It's also technically carbon neutral....

Mr King remember me from Overunity asking too many questions about JB's work got me kicked off I cant think why to be honest..Any way that was before I could ask the question below.

Any way you went out to Georgia–Lithuania and met Tariel Kapanadzeadsey in person and saw his device working first hand what I want to ask is do you have any HQ picks of the inside of any of his devices you can published on here or send to view, I would be very grateful if you could advise.

Sil

To set the record straight I did not personally go out to Georgia. In retrospect it was a big mistake, but I had full confidence in the team which went out there.
My contribution was in setting it all up and getting the finance backer. I also outlined the specifications of  the device to be built with a special emphasis on "no fancy switching" during the test. With hind-sight I should have specified a device to run an electric vehicle - say a golf cart or even an EV.
All the high definition photographs have already published on overunity.com, so there is nothing more to glean.
The Kapanadze device is not an over unity device. It is a device which organises the electrons bombarding us daily from both the sun and the galaxy. (It even says so in his patent applications would you believe!)
Any research should start with quantifying the potential power of free homeless electrons in say a cubic meter of air in daytime, and comparing that to the available free electrons at night. My research indicates 2:1 in favour of the day (by scouring various info on the net).
Once these electrons are organised, they are then fired through the load into an earth or air grounding.
Although I have studied Bearden, my experiments have indicated energy absorption from the background- ie  already present electrons. I think Bearden (either deliberately or by mistake) makes us all look for an impossible solution (zero point energy), when the simple solution is looking you in the face.
All the coils in any device have to be the same length or a multiple or division of each other to stay in resonance.
When I asked Kapanadze about creating a "One MW" device and whether we would need any special diodes or other specialised equipment, all he said was that he only needed to MEASURE THE WIRES.
The other principle to consider is electrostatic induction caused by only charging up one side of a cap and letting the earth ground charge up the other side.
Everything I have just told you is right there in Kapanadze's patent schematics.
I have given  this information  to Verpies, when I spoke to him on a number of occasions about a year ago.
If you want to do serious research, I suggest we create a private forum by invite only - including private zoom meetings etc. I wrould trust Grumage to organise  it.
In any case all the above information is available on overunitycom - just follow my posts.

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.13, 00:24:26
All the coils in any device have to be the same length or a multiple or division of each other to stay in resonance.
When I asked Kapanadze about creating a "One MW" device and whether we would need any special diodes or other specialised equipment, all he said was that he only needed to MEASURE THE WIRES.
The other principle to consider is electrostatic induction caused by only charging up one side of a cap and letting the earth ground charge up the other side.
Everything I have just told you is right there in Kapanadze's patent schematics.
I have given  this information  to Verpies, when I spoke to him on a number of occasions about a year ago.
If you want to do serious research, I suggest we create a private forum by invite only - including private zoom meetings etc. I wrould trust Grumage to organise  it.
In any case all the above information is available on overunitycom - just follow my posts.

Based on your understanding, could you diagram the simplest schematic or experiment that might demonstrate the critical part of this process?   Doesn't even have to be OU, just some kind of signal/indicator to help guide in the right direction :)

Simplest way to harness the ambient flow of particles to earth, so to speak, is the passive Ewe Jarcke device. (search this forum)
It receives with a bar magnet and funnel coil.

I am pretty sure the TPU moves fields of, who knows what, on its own.

   As every self runner that has been shown is running at totally different frequencies, "measure the coils"  is the only solution. That was what I did, as per the instruction. Grenade output coil 37.5 meters, and inductor coil 1/2 that. That may be the best advice to follow.
Otherwise, there is no sync to the coils. Kacher needs to be tuned for resonance to the induction circuits. And you'll need some tuning caps like the 2000 volt 0.47uf wima caps. As used in Ruslan's 5000 watt device.
Kapanadze had no scope, nor signal generator, etc...
   But, the main issue now is, that nobody wants to build anything, that works. Just talk...as most replicators have lost faith, and have  given up. Not to mention that Ruslan, Akula, Stalker and any other inventors of self runners, have stopped posting, not to be heard from again.  No bueno...

   NickZ

Quote from: Hakasays on 2023.01.13, 02:06:29
Based on your understanding, could you diagram the simplest schematic or experiment that might demonstrate the critical part of this process?   Doesn't even have to be OU, just some kind of signal/indicator to help guide in the right direction :)

I have already done it and told Verpies about it including the principle  of operation.
It was an experiment conducted by a Ukrainian agricultural university PHD student, in which he hit "Overunity" which was in fact harnessing available electrons and had nothing to do with OU. However the University were puzzled by the apparent OU results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAZFe4HNMw&t=22s
30 minutes in is the circuit diagram and discussion.
I suggest you download the video as Patrick has passed on.

Quote from: NickZ on 2023.01.13, 13:55:16

Kapanadze had no scope, nor signal generator, etc...

I do not think that, as it was customary to consider Georgia backward in the USSR.
What was such a problem to get an oscilloscope for personal use, even in Soviet times in Georgia.
There were many different research institutes in Tbilisi. There was even an enterprise for the production of integrated circuits in Tbilisi. ELVA  :)

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.13, 14:40:07
I have already done it and told Verpies about it including the principle  of operation.
It was an experiment conducted by a Ukrainian agricultural university PHD student, in which he hit "Overunity" which was in fact harnessing available electrons and had nothing to do with OU. However the University were puzzled by the apparent OU results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAZFe4HNMw&t=22s
30 minutes in is the circuit diagram and discussion.
I suggest you download the video as Patrick has passed on.

Thanks much, I will have a gander

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.13, 03:02:25
Simplest way to harness the ambient flow of particles to earth, so to speak, is the passive Ewe Jarcke device. (search this forum)
It receives with a bar magnet and funnel coil.

I am pretty sure the TPU moves fields of, who knows what, on its own.

Haven't seen before, thanks as well.   It's an interesting setup but being so unlike what we're used to that will likely make it harder to replicate.

Quotefrom akin.21
The Kapanadze device is not an over unity device. It is a device which organises the electrons bombarding us daily from both the sun and the galaxy. (It even says so in his patent applications would you believe!)
Any research should start with quantifying the potential power of free homeless electrons in say a cubic meter of air in daytime, and comparing that to the available free electrons at night. My research indicates 2:1 in favour of the day (by scouring various info on the net).
Once these electrons are organised, they are then fired through the load into an earth or air grounding. Air grounding heats the device up and can cause failure. (Kapanadze told me this). So now you have potentially the principle of operation of Don Smith, Kapanadze, and Steven Marks's TPU.

If  OU devices do exist or not would be only a matter of definition, as energy ca not be created -destroyed there can only be devices to collect or transform energy. Regarding the principles there is nothing specific in all the last posts.@ akin.21 you didn't say nothing new, it is well known that there are free electrons in the atmosphere, as well as in any peace of wire. So what makes them carry energy to power the load and the device? What is the physical principles in you opinion?
@ Nickz  You are very confident to be on the right track, could you be more specific about your observations that make you believe to be so very close to the goal. The videos you reffed to are now dated like 3 years ago, any updates of your findings?
Regarding posts about thermodynamic machines it is a very interesting and inspiring area of physics, we might start a separate topic fo this, so I can keep this topic focused on the theoretical physics of selfrunning electric generators.
Regards Vidura.

Quote from: Hakasays on 2023.01.13, 14:45:28
Haven't seen before, thanks as well.   It's an interesting setup but being so unlike what we're used to that will likely make it harder to replicate.

Proper spelling is "Uwe Jarcke", the inventors name:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3963.0

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.13, 14:51:09
If  OU devices do exist or not would be only a matter of definition, as energy ca not be created -destroyed there can only be devices to collect or transform energy. Regarding the principles there is nothing specific in all the last posts.@ akin.21 you didn't say nothing new, it is well known that there are free electrons in the atmosphere, as well as in any peace of wire. So what makes them carry energy to power the load and the device? What is the physical principles in you opinion?

Regards Vidura.

Electrostatic induction at a sufficiently high rate to power a house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAZFe4HNMw&t=22s
30 minutes in is the circuit diagram and discussion.
I suggest you download the video as Patrick has passed on.

QuoteElectrostatic induction at a sufficiently high rate to power a house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAZFe4HNMw&t=22s
30 minutes in is the circuit diagram and discussion.
I suggest you download the video as Patrick has passed on.

The first hypothesis I was following was based on electric induction(Coulomb) but in my tests it was not possible to proof this working, not when high frequencies are involved.
Regarding Don Smith I do not agree with his flawed theories.
Energy increase at square of frequency?????
Energy per cycle remains constant thus increase linearly with frequency! For example...
Vidura

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.13, 20:08:14
Electrostatic induction at a sufficiently high rate to power a house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAZFe4HNMw&t=22s
30 minutes in is the circuit diagram and discussion.
I suggest you download the video as Patrick has passed on.

Later video of a Solovey replication:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv1rLk1Fq_8

Does anyone have the PDF's of these two videos?

The devices shown in the Patrick Kelly videos have nothing to do with "electrostatic induction "
High frequencies, no electrostatics.
On the other forum someone posted this publication:
Interesting from IEEE:
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=9295367
Regards Vidura.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.14, 03:36:42
Later video of a Solovey replication:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv1rLk1Fq_8

Does anyone have the PDF's of these two videos?

After much searching, the contents of the 2 Solovey-related pdf's has been located: see attached

Very interesting...

Quotefrom NickZ: I am not really into repeating myself, so you can check my videos, or posts, for my comments and ideas, here as else where.
  I am into building a working device, and theory will follow. Sorry. I already understand the working theory, but, understanding a theory is not the same as producing a working self running device. I am not interested in hearing about more and more theories, that do nothing...except in your imagination.

If you're not interested in theory, nor in my opinion, then you are in the wrong topic, sorry for you.

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.14, 19:57:40
If you're not interested in theory, nor in my opinion, then you are in the wrong topic, sorry for you.

We have to start somewhere: either instructions for a working device, or a theory to develop your own version of a working device.

Unfortunately, both are sorely lacking...

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.14, 20:06:15
We have to start somewhere: either instructions for a working device, or a theory to develop your own version of a working device.

Unfortunately, both are sorely lacking...

Are you sure of that? How many has tried to make something out of all this popular predigested stuff and unfounded "theories" ?
Certainly you can continue to do that. But maybe it is even better to do reverse engineering, at least with a good portion of luck you could find something. I have proposed  a hypothesis as fundamentals to go a different way.First think,  verify the idea, and then design and  build knowing what you are looking for. If you have doubts about something, you can ask, we can discuss it.
Regards Vidura

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.14, 19:57:40
If you're not interested in theory, nor in my opinion, then you are in the wrong topic, sorry for you.

  Yes, Vidura you are right. And I share your "opinion", but, what I'm interested in are your results, but you are not into building an actual working contraption that self runs, and would prove your point.  Well, the proof is in the pudding...
  At one time we had working group, but most everyone bailed... As this is not an easy build.
Now we have "theories". And there are a lot of them, but, not a single working self runner. Which is what I am interested in.

   NickZ

OK, looking at the Solovey documents that I posted above, what is the theory of operation?

Can the designs in these documents be improved or simplified?

Based on these questions, can we build a suitable device to provide conventional power (AC or DC) to useful devices in excess of the supplied power?

Vidura

QuoteCertainly you can continue to do that. But maybe it is even better to do reverse engineering, at least with a good portion of luck you could find something. I have proposed  a hypothesis as fundamentals to go a different way.First think, verify the idea, and then design and build knowing what you are looking for. If you have doubts about something, you can ask, we can discuss it.

Indeed and after reading your posts on the first page I think your on the right track conceptually.

As you implied, many trying to replicate FE devices generally always fail because they have no knowledge of the mechanism for gain. In effect, there trying to understand an airplane without first understanding aerodynamics, what a wing is and how it works. It's a backwards way of doing things which seldom yields any demonstrable results.

We also have the problem that the people most likely to succeed who are discussing real concepts are usually drowned out by others. Either the replicators and/or the supposed science critics jump in confusing the issue until it's destroyed. As this always seems to happen one has to wonder if it's accidental or premeditated to cast doubt and muddy the waters.

QuoteFirst think, verify the idea, and then design and build knowing what you are looking for.

Here you nailed it and this is the exact process I always use. It always starts with...
1)an idea.
2)which leads to a concept.
3)which leads to an experiment to verify the concept.
4)which leads to a process/device built around the basic concept to demonstrate a result.

AC

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.14, 20:47:35
OK, looking at the Solovey documents that I posted above, what is the theory of operation?

Can the designs in these documents be improved or simplified?

Based on these questions, can we build a suitable device to provide conventional power (AC or DC) to useful devices in excess of the supplied power?

The "magic" happens when you introduce a capacitor.
I have already done  experiments with conditioned ou caps.
Dave Lawton did the same with his Meyer HHO replication.
So here is a question.
Take a crystal set and instead of an earth ground, introduce a capacitor instead of the earth ground, then ground the cap.
A capacitor is a blocking device.
What happens to the crystal set?

Quote from: Aking.21 on 2023.01.16, 23:31:00
The "magic" happens when you introduce a capacitor.
I have already done  experiments with conditioned ou caps.
Dave Lawton did the same with his Meyer HHO replication.
So here is a question.
Take a crystal set and instead of an earth ground, introduce a capacitor instead of the earth ground, then ground the cap.
A capacitor is a blocking device.
What happens to the crystal set?

I answered before but it looks like it was deleted...

The logical answer is that they crystal set stops working because of the blocking capacitor.

The guessing answer is that crystal set works better.

Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023.01.14, 22:41:26
...
As you implied, many trying to replicate FE devices generally always fail because they have no knowledge of the mechanism for gain. In effect, there trying to understand an airplane without first understanding aerodynamics, what a wing is and how it works.
...

You don't need to know the mechanism of the wings if you just reproduce a plan.

A "knowledge" is only necessary within the framework of a theory, and a theory is only necessary to explain facts. Producing facts does not require knowledge of the theory.
Ørsted did not need to know electromagnetism to deflect a compass needle with a current. All researchers of his time, without knowledge, could then reproduce the effect. New facts precede knowledge, knowledge explains them, and only then can engineering use the knowledge.

You are thinking backwards, illogically, it is an ignorance of the most elementary scientific method. To require the experimenters to know the principles in order to generate the facts is a nonsens and a need to excuse the irreproducibility of the so-called OU devices.  The problem is only that the plan is always badly described or it lacks elements or more likely, even reproducing it faithfully does not work because the original never worked as claimed (measurement error or scam).

Hi All
Yes I have removed some posts and will continue to do that when I consider it unproductive or based on erroneous calculating and/or schemes (Don Smith). If you think to have a clear understanding of the effects and how they are implemented please describe it with your OWN WORDS, not repeating anyone else's opinions. Also I consider that a certain basis knowledge in physics and electronics is required to join the discussion of the theoretical topic.
@ Akin.21
A capacitor is not a "blocking device" 
Thanks for your understanding.
Vidura

OK, looking at the Solovey documents that I posted above, what is the theory of operation?
What is the principle of OU, if it exists in these devices?

Quote from: F6FLT on 2023.01.17, 08:59:33
You don't need to know the mechanism of the wings if you just reproduce a plan.

Much like how the swordsmiths of Damascus were working with carbon nanotubes and graphene centuries before the structures were officially discovered. :) They didn't need to know the *how*, just the process that made their swords insanely sharp

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.17, 14:49:23
OK, looking at the Solovey documents that I posted above, what is the theory of operation?
What is the principle of OU, if it exists in these devices?

I decline to comment on these documents, for some already mentioned reasons. Although I respect JPKelly as reporter, where he did a great job with his recompilation, IMO he did not have the background to give explanations related to physics theories. And Don Smith, already commented....
But we can take most of the other devices,claimed OU, and analyse them in context with the here proposed hypothesis.
Regards Vidura.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.16, 23:42:31
I answered before but it looks like it was deleted...

The logical answer is that they crystal set stops working because of the blocking capacitor.

The guessing answer is that crystal set works better.

The answer is that it makes no difference.
One possiblity is that the earth side of the cap replicates the working side through electrostatic induction, hence the amplification.
Anyhow, I have told you what I know, through experimentation.
The other factor is that whatever is happening on one side of the cap is perfectly replicated on the other side, and hence technically in perfect resonance.
Good luck with your research.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.17, 14:49:23
OK, looking at the Solovey documents that I posted above, what is the theory of operation?
What is the principle of OU, if it exists in these devices?

Grumpy, as you insist with the Solovay, I did not know the actual experiment shown in the video, If you want we can try to analyse it in the scope of the here proposed hypothesis.
But please provide a complete schematic with all coils and what claims was made about the results.
Regards Vidura.

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.19, 01:31:39
Grumpy, as you insist with the Solovay, I did not know the actual experiment shown in the video, If you want we can try to analyse it in the scope of the here proposed hypothesis.
But please provide a complete schematic with all coils and what claims was made about the results.
Regards Vidura.

The schematics and claims are in the PDF files.  I'm not convinced based on the conventional bulb being blown, as they are not designed for HV, HF.

However, it has not been proven to not be OU.

I'd like to try it with unidirectional pulses and longitudinal resonance.

Hi Grumpy:
    I have experimented with 125v bulbs and HV to see what does happen with them. There is a point where a plasma forms (purple haze) inside the bulb and it will arc across killing the illumination part.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.19, 02:54:21
...
However, it has not been proven to not be OU.
...

No device has to be proven not to be OU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)).

Quote from: Grumpy on 2023.01.14, 19:55:02
After much searching, the contents of the 2 Solovey-related pdf's has been located: see attached

Very interesting...

I don't think so.  In the first paper, I read :
"However, Don Smith states that when a circuit is at it's point of resonance, resistance in the circuit drops to zero and the circuit becomes effectively, a superconductor."  C.C

This is obviously wrong. At resonance, the impedance of the circuit is reduced to the resistance. If the coil is superconducting and the capacitor too, then R=0. In the general case, notably that of the experiments described, they are not, so we have a resistance.
Resonance has nothing to do with superconductivity. It is a nonsense and everything else is on the same model.

Another example. Starting from P=U.I, he tells us: "so we might settle for the notion that if we doubled the voltage then we could double the output power."
Only he must have had this idea because he never studied anything. Competent people know that energy is proportional to the square of the amplitude of the physical quantity that gives it rise, such as a voltage, a current, an electric field, a magnetic field, a speed for kinetic energy...
This simply means that it takes twice as much energy to charge a capacitor at 20v than at 10v, this is well known and to pretend that we could defeat the conservation of energy on such a simplistic idea is childish.

Yet another example is the idea that the stored energy would depend on the frequency. In an RLC circuit the energy goes from the capacitor to the inductor via the resistance. It is always the same energy that goes back and forth. This energy is equal to 1/2.L.I² when the current is maximum in the inductance, or to 1/2.C.V² when the voltage is maximum in the capacitor, and it is partially dissipated in the resistance at each passage from one to the other, even at resonance, which is the reason for the attenuation of an RLC circuit when we stop feeding it, attenuation which is consequently faster when the frequency is higher.
The frequency has no role in the energy, it simply sets the number of back and forth per second of the stored energy between the capacitor and the inductor.

Donald Lee Smith twists electronics formulas to obtain false results that appeal to the naive but that even a beginning undergraduated student could debunk. He shows himself incapable of using the differential equations of physics to get the right results. He clearly does not understand anything he presents and makes incoherent galimatia out of it. By reading him, the ignorant will remain an ignorant, and the others may well become so. Solovey is supposed to be a "Ph.D. candidate". Did he get his degree? ;D

F6 where do you get your quotes from, coils and capacitors don't have resistance it's dynamic impedance and it's not a closed circuit ether none of your facts are right, I don't know why you bother..

it just shows that you don't have a clue and that post was written by some time wasting taking
negative thinking comedian. I bet you have never been to DLS seminars or seen one of his devices working.

Sil

F6FLT

QuoteI don't think so.  In the first paper, I read :
"However, Don Smith states that when a circuit is at it's point of resonance, resistance in the circuit drops to zero and the circuit becomes effectively, a superconductor."

It's debatable and would depend on the context of what were talking about.

If were dealing with Don Smiths high voltage/high frequency phenomena the corona/skin effect could be perceived as a lack of resistance. Even most amateur HV experimenters understand this and because the current is very low there is little resistance. A plasma has extremely low resistance and new studies with plasma waves show superconductive properties. 

As well, if resonance was involved in a mechanism for gain then the acceleration of free electrons could negate any resistance. When an acceleration equals any resistance there appears to be no resistance which some could assume is super conduction ie. a lack of resistance.

What you seem to have done is take the statement out of context assuming low voltage then made yet another slanderous straw man argument against forum rules.

Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023.01.19, 22:59:50
F6FLT
It's debatable and would depend on the context of what were talking about.
...

It's not debatable. The conductors used in capacitors and inductors have a non-zero resistance.

About Don Smith and the Solovay papers I would agree with F6 . As on paper anything can be written,and  it won't cry or protest so it remains there. It is worrying that so many people just swallow this kind of unfounded formulism and senseless blabbering without questioning or verifying it. The pity is that other more serious research is falling into notoriety.
Anyway, focussing on the subject of the thread again, it has to be noted very clearly, that of a resonant system can not be extracted more energy that the amount needed to support the resonance less losses. The only way this can happen, is when a continuous restorage from the environment is present. And this does not come from resonance alone, otherwise there would be millions of replications already. It is necessary to look for the mechanism how this inflow of energy happens.
@ Grumpy, if you could post  a screenshot of the schematic diagram, we could analyze in context of physics and radio engineering.
Vidura.

Here's the full pdf file....

See attached screenshots.

First a clarification, the TC or Kacher is a resonant system, not to be considered as transformers. Despite that the secondary voltage depends on the turns ratio, but it also depends on the Q factor, thus the voltage can rise much higher than in a transformer, energy is added cycle by cycle. Also the output should not be measured just adding a load in series, as any extra component will change the resonant frequency and characteristics of the setup. Better would be a DC input measurement with appropriate filters.
For fig.4 I could imagine that by the scalar wave emitted on the hot end of the resonator a transfer to L3 would be possible. If all parameters are set up correctly, then the required 90° phase shift of  potential could occur, and a positive feedback achieved.
Similar in fig.5 provided that the hot end is set up under the L3 coil. As there is no grounding indicated on L3, it is not likely to get a significant power level for dielectric coupling of the coils, and magnetic coupling is not there, on the hot end will be no current.
To connect a load directly to the TC, with or without capacitor makes no sense to me, it will only dampening the oscillations.
That incandescent bulbs are brighter at HF is normal, due to the agitations of the contained gas, and they are eventually overheating and fuse even at rated current.
Regards Vidura

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.20, 15:06:49
About Don Smith and the Solovay papers I would agree with F6 . As on paper anything can be written,and  it won't cry or protest so it remains there. It is worrying that so many people just swallow this kind of unfounded formulism and senseless blabbering without questioning or verifying it. The pity is that other more serious research is falling into notoriety.
Anyway, focussing on the subject of the thread again, it has to be noted very clearly, that of a resonant system can not be extracted more energy that the amount needed to support the resonance less losses. The only way this can happen, is when a continuous restorage from the environment is present. And this does not come from resonance alone, otherwise there would be millions of replications already. It is necessary to look for the mechanism how this inflow of energy happens.
@ Grumpy, if you could post  a screenshot of the schematic diagram, we could analyze in context of physics and radio engineering.
Vidura.

I am the one who found the Ukrainian paper. I checked with the Ukrainian agricultural institute and found that the professor who was mentoring, did actually exist, or at least his name and office were listed in the University web site.
We do not have resonance alone. We have HV resonance which you should understand creates plasma.
Plasma consists of atoms which have had  an electron forcibly removed. Therefore the Solovey device is operating in a sea of homeless electrons.
The capacitor addition appears to be a way that those electrons can enter the device. What is necessary is for those with access to university equipment to replicate the effect.
Please try and be civil in your comments.

I had fun with plasmas in the air a few years ago. I had made a simple LC circuit with an end plate. Near the plate, I injected current into the air from a tip connected to a very high voltage DC source.

The system oscillated, the oscillation could be produced up to a frequency of about 2MHz, with a voltage > 10 KV, which could then be lowered to about 8 KV once the oscillation was triggered. It is clear that there was a negative resistance in the plasma, this is known, but as in all cases when this happens, it is a dynamic resistance (so no hope of OU, you have to polarize it, therefore to provide energy).

Here the high voltage is AC. AC can also ionize the air on the hot side of the resonant circuit if the voltage is sufficient. There is no longer a fixed current to maintain the bias around which the dynamic resistance is negative. The resistance of the circuit will depend on the applied voltage, but we will probably have the negative resistance still appearing fleetingly when the AC voltage is around that point. If the AC is at low frequency, a few tens to hundreds of KHz, oscillations at higher frequencies or distortions of the signal may therefore occur for short times around the point of negative resistance at each period of the AC

It becomes very difficult to characterize the input and output powers without tools in the RF domain capable to measure arbitrary signals. An oscilloscope with math functions would be the solution, but because of the strong ambient field, it is necessary to know how to connect it without magnetic or capacitive inductions polluting the signal of the probe, using for example double screened coaxial cables instead of probes, shielded connections... which is not within the reach of the first person, without RF experience. Don Smith had neither the technical means nor the skills to do this.
For those who would like to test the system, and thus be able to make correct measurements, I can only agree with Vidura: "Better would be a DC input measurement with appropriate filters", and output too!

If the voltage is not sufficient to obtain an ionization, then we do not really see why the elementary setups seen above would produce anything abnormal that the engineers who have been using them for decades, would not have seen.

Please , try to stay on the scope of the topic, I would not mind too much, but there is an issue in the site, so that I can't use the splitting and merge features on my bench, and it becomes tedious to clean the topics. Therefore please carry out personal discussion in the battlefield topic. Thanks a lot.
Vidura.

Sorry, but I felt like I was on topic when I followed up on aking21's post, which introduced the issue of plasma in resonant systems.
"The Idea is to guide the practical research to discover the actual physical concepts on which these devices could likely relay," you said at the beginning.
Plasmas produce negative resistances, Tesla coils and related HV resonant systems very often used in so-called "OU" devices can produce them, so plasmas and negative resistances would be a lead to answer the first question you asked in this thread:
"1.) Where does the surplus energy come from?"
It is indeed well understood that an electronic circuit is not enough, it has to tap somewhere outside to hope to recover some energy.

Quote from: F6FLT on 2023.01.22, 11:44:54
Sorry, but I felt like I was on topic when I followed up on aking21's post, which introduced the issue of plasma in resonant systems.
"The Idea is to guide the practical research to discover the actual physical concepts on which these devices could likely relay," you said at the beginning.
Plasmas produce negative resistances, Tesla coils and related HV resonant systems very often used in so-called "OU" devices can produce them, so plasmas and negative resistances would be a lead to answer the first question you asked in this thread:
"1.) Where does the surplus energy come from?"
It is indeed well understood that an electronic circuit is not enough, it has to tap somewhere outside to hope to recover some energy.

It's ok F6
Actually the next experiments To perform to get more information about the process of excitation or ionisation. Therefore I will comment on the experiment you performed with HV also.
We can discuss about the methods of implementation in experiments here also. The Idea is the following: As in your experience it is supposed that the air around the conductor is ionised, which can be observed clearly by the appearance of Corona or streamers, the questy is how to achieve ionisation in a conductive material as copper. The setup should be such, that the strain of coulomb force would be acting upon the copper atoms. It is known from electrostatic induction, that a conductive body is polarised in presence of an electric field. If the potential is high enough, ionisation should occur. By selecting a dielectric with a higher level of ionisation than copper, it should be possible to focus the potential on the material of the conductor to explore the effects.
That the circuit in your experience started oscillating is an important observation. Of course no gain can be there, until the phaseshift potential -ionisatio level is present. Also the dissipation on the cold side of the circuit is important, like in the Stirling engine or termoacoustic resonator a gradient has to be set. At the moment I am working on the test setup and making some preliminary measurements.
If you have something documented about you experiment , or some images of the setup would be great.
Regards Vidura.

@Vidura

By "ionizing a metal" you mean extracting electrons from the atoms on the surface? Because inside the metal, free electrons flow as soon as an electric field is applied, preventing a field high enough for the purpose.

I don't have a picture of my setup, it wasn't for energy research, but just for fun for RF wave generation. My HV power supply was adjustable up to 50 KV, but the oscillation was easily triggered between 15 and 22 KV when the setup was not optimized, lower otherwise. You just have to make a resonant LC circuit around the MHz, and ionize the air around the capacitor plate. Even without corona effect, about ten KV are enough to ionize air molecules, without visual effect. I don't remember very well how I made the capacitor, not even if there was a second plate but I remember that obtaining the oscillation was easy. It was a small setup, it fit in a volume of 15 or 20 cm radius,
I just did a little research on the Internet, and I am surprised not to find much about this effect.

The idea is to test an equivalent setup for the thermoacoustic travelling wave resonator like the one shown by Igor Beletzky in the video. According to electrostatics , the electrons in a conductive body would move to the positive side of the field. Not sure if the inner atoms don't get influenced indirectly, from the surface, but anyway the radiation would be likely a superficial effect. I don't know if my flyback supply can be filtered sufficient for a strait DC output, better would be a van der Graff generator. Below attached a sketch for the setup.

Quote from: F6FLT on 2023.01.23, 14:36:52
@Vidura

By "ionizing a metal" you mean extracting electrons from the atoms on the surface? Because inside the metal, free electrons flow as soon as an electric field is applied, preventing a field high enough for the purpose.

I don't have a picture of my setup, it wasn't for energy research, but just for fun for RF wave generation. My HV power supply was adjustable up to 50 KV, but the oscillation was easily triggered between 15 and 22 KV when the setup was not optimized, lower otherwise. You just have to make a resonant LC circuit around the MHz, and ionize the air around the capacitor plate. Even without corona effect, about ten KV are enough to ionize air molecules, without visual effect. I don't remember very well how I made the capacitor, not even if there was a second plate but I remember that obtaining the oscillation was easy. It was a small setup, it fit in a volume of 15 or 20 cm radius,
I just did a little research on the Internet, and I am surprised not to find much about this effect.

Try youtube you might have better luck

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.01.24, 16:44:36
Try youtube you might have better luck

C.C

Quote from: Vidura on 2023.01.24, 01:14:44
The idea is to test an equivalent setup for the thermoacoustic travelling wave resonator like the one shown by Igor Beletzky in the video. According to electrostatics , the electrons in a conductive body would move to the positive side of the field. Not sure if the inner atoms don't get influenced indirectly, from the surface, but anyway the radiation would be likely a superficial effect. I don't know if my flyback supply can be filtered sufficient for a strait DC output, better would be a van der Graff generator. Below attached a sketch for the setup.

Hi Vidura.

Rather than a cumbersome VDG you could try one, or several of these inexpensive HV modules. I used two in series for a couple of experiments with my Franklin motor. But the video shows just one.

https://youtu.be/kIwHqV1NpHs

https://youtu.be/koJ0qHNWlBM

Cheers Grum.

Vidura

QuoteThe idea is to test an equivalent setup for the thermoacoustic travelling wave resonator like the one shown by Igor Beletzky in the video. According to electrostatics , the electrons in a conductive body would move to the positive side of the field. Not sure if the inner atoms don't get influenced indirectly, from the surface, but anyway the radiation would be likely a superficial effect. I don't know if my flyback supply can be filtered sufficient for a strait DC output, better would be a van der Graff generator. Below attached a sketch for the setup.

Interesting experiment, it's not common knowledge but the coil setup attributed to most known FE devices is not the Tesla coil but the Ruhmkorff induction coil. The Ruhmkorff coil was invented 40 years prior to the Tesla coil and led to it's development. I liked to use carbon welding rods as the electrode material for my Ruhmkorff and the switching can be so precise I could not detect any movement of the interrupter. All I would hear is a slight hissing noise and see a very small blue ball between the carbon electrodes. I think you would be impressed by it's simplicity and what it can do.

On a Van de Graaff generator, I built a 24" 500kV setup using teflon and glass rollers with a 1-1/2" latex rubber belt. I bought some cheap copper wire part cleaning brushes and cut them down for my induction brushes and used an 8" stainless sphere on top. It worked very well and there is something peculiar about the HV it produces. It's not like a rectified AC HV coil and the streamers are milder, long, very small diameter and more white than blue. The arcs also tend not to branch off out to 8" like an AC machine. I still prefer electrostatic machines and Leyden jars or homemade parallel plate capacitors to all the newer technology. There's just something about it I find old school and appealing.

AC

An interesting incident was Elihu Thomson's demonstration of a Ruhmkorff coil when he found he could draw a spark from any metallic object in the room.

https://books.google.com/books?id=BhYBAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=elihu+thomson+demonstration+coil+sparks+doorknob&source=bl&ots=yOeZd73nKI&sig=ACfU3U0xnElvZ9eb5-iOuShV5-f3TIKvng&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit3oPC2pv4AhWYRzABHT1aA8YQ6AF6BAgZEAM#v=onepage&q=elihu%20thomson%20demonstration%20coil%20sparks%20doorknob&f=false

also Edison etheric waves  O0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKznhsbVNMA&t=4s

How about staying in focus, lets also start at the beginning and whats that?
The Tesla coil you call the katcher device of course !

The original  was a 37.5mtr coil on a 5cm or 50mm drain pips or was it a 18.75 winding
but what guys are ignoring is how do you make it cover that measurement
on the tube length when the surface wind is 16cm per single turn, other wise its not in
resonance! and then there is the wire it's wound with thickness to consider.

So I ask any of you has any one solved this spacing problem and how as it becomes
rather complex.

Sil

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.01.28, 15:27:54
How about staying in focus, lets also start at the beginning and whats that?
The Tesla coil you call the katcher device of course !

The original  was a 37.5mtr coil on a 50cm drain pips or was it a 18.75 winding
but what guys are ignoring is how do you make it cover that measurement
on the tube length when the surface wind is 16cm per single turn, other wise its not in
resonance! and then there is the wire it's wound with thickness to consider.

So I ask any of you has any one solved this spacing problem and how as it becomes
rather complex.

Sil

Dear Mr Grey.

We really need to get a grip on our measurements. 50 cm is half a Metre. I presume you meant 50 mm? That would equate to 157.1 mm of wire per turn.

Regarding the spacing. The use of a small lathe with screw cutting facilities would help immensely. You can either lay down the wire directly onto the former or, with the use of a sharp point lathe tool, form a spiral groove that the wire can lay in.

Cheers Graham.

Quote from: Grumage on 2023.01.28, 17:29:12
Dear Mr Grey.

We really need to get a grip on our measurements. 50 cm is half a Metre. I presume you meant 50 mm? That would equate to 157.1 mm of wire per turn.

Regarding the spacing. The use of a small lathe with screw cutting facilities would help immensely. You can either lay down the wire directly onto the former or, with the use of a sharp point lathe tool, form a spiral groove that the wire can lay in.

Cheers Graham.

Hi Graham; sorry to take so long to get back, and yes 50 mm tube would be better but
pvc drain pipe isnt the best idea as it bends with a little heat. There is a tube the post office
stocks made of card board and also plexiflow tube but its 56.13 on my micrometer, the inner dia
is 50.02 and if need be the katcher could plexitube could be slid over the 50mm drain pipe, the card board version is OSD of 55.86mm and an inside dia of 47.40mm and it wont fit over the 50mm drain pipe.

Regarding the lath idea it would be a matter of spacing and getting it accurate. What are your
thoughts on that idea?

Sil

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.01.30, 23:58:49
Hi Graham; sorry to take so long to get back, and yes 50 mm tube would be better but
pvc drain pipe isnt the best idea as it bends with a little heat. There is a tube the post office
stocks made of card board and also plexiflow tube but its 56.13 on my micrometer, the inner dia
is 50.02 and if need be the katcher could plexitube could be slid over the 50mm drain pipe, the card board version is OSD of 55.86mm and an inside dia of 47.40mm and it wont fit over the 50mm drain pipe.

Regarding the lath idea it would be a matter of spacing and getting it accurate. What are your
thoughts on that idea?

Sil

Hi AG.

Regarding the use of a lathe the end result would be near perfect in accuracy. Even the really cheap ones have what's called " Screw cutting " facilities. This means that as the work is rotated the lathe cutting tool follows a " pitch " set by the gearing. And as said previously you could make a spiral groove that your wire could sit in.

From your text I gather that you need the one coil to be able to slide over the other, is that correct? This former might have to be custom made? In the old days they used Brown paper and Shellac. Shellac is still readily available at most DIY outlets, commonly known as Button polish.

If you can find a suitable tube I would be happy to run a groove along it for you.

Cheers Graham.