Hellos Guys:
This thread is dedicated to looking into and furthering the research onto these types of self running devices.
As well as to why no one in theses forums has been able replicate their OU, self running effects, in practice.
NickZ
Thanks to our admin Peterae, as well as itsu for allowing me this opportunity.
Hi Nick,
looking good, thanks for opening this thread.
Hopefully the Admin can fix the problem that this thread is not visible when not logged in or for non-members.
Anyway, i just was setting up my Grenade/Inductor/Antenna on new 3D printed stands to start making some measurements on the different parts of the Ruslan setup starting with this Grenade:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47819;image)
F.I. i want to figure out if there can be standing waves present in this Grenade/inductor and under what conditions.
Regards Itsu
Nice Grenade you have here Itsu.
Minimum inductance. Inductance cancellation, but you can't get zero: clockwise and counterclockwise.
Regards
Itsu:
Wow, what a great looking grenade, as well as your 3D printed stand.
You seam to have to most accurate replication that I've seen yet. And hopefully with your help, we can crack this nut.
My thoughts on this is that we are close, and that it's probably only a tuning issue to resolve.
So, we should not throw our baby out, with the bath water.
Max: Thank for your comments, and ideas.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.24, 14:26:01
Itsu:
Wow, what a great looking grenade, as well as your 3D printed stand.
You seam to have to most accurate replication that I've seen yet. And hopefully with your help, we can crack this nut.
My thoughts on this is that we are close, and that it's probably only a tuning issue to resolve.
So, we should not throw our baby out, with the bath water.
Max: Thank for your comments, and ideas.
NickZ
Nice you have your tread now Nickz.
We wish to see better things happening.
Maxolous
Thanks Max, Nick,
that Grenade i build 2 years ago with the help of Vasik and his translations.
I don't think it was designed to be "inductance cancellation" as we still have more turns counterclockwise than clockwise (or the other way around) and for what reason do we need an inductionless coil?
We might then use only a capacitor as that is what is left.
Anyway, i will do some measurements with my nanoVNA to see how the inductance varies over a frequency range and at what frequency it flips over (the zero inductance point) from an inductance to capacitance (if doing so).
Let's see what we can come up with.
Itsu
Sounds good itsu, and I hope that Vasik and any of the other guys interested will also join in, and build some devices. As there are no better self running devices around, as yet.
Since we don't really know what it takes to get these devices to self run, it's best to build true replications, of which there are really only just a very few.
I understand from Vasik, I think it was, that Stalker built up 25 grenades, to finally get one that worked.
Max: Did you figure out why your unit is flipping the over amp protection circuit. Does your mosfet get real hot. It may be that you have too much current going in.
I use a couple of chokes at the input, as well as some filter caps, as per the Ruslan, or Stalker's schematic. This diagram below, was for the induction circuit that I replicated.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.25, 13:24:37
Since we don't really know what it takes to get these devices to self run, it's best to build true replications, of which there are really only just a very few.
We don't really know the physics behind the overunity effect, e.g. from what source is the extra energy coming from and what mechanism does it take to get this effect realized.
If there where a simple setup just demonstrating this, it would be obvious how to build kilowatts devices. But there are almost as much theories about the device operation as there are devices variations on the internet to find.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.24, 18:55:59
Thanks Max, Nick,
that Grenade i build 2 years ago with the help of Vasik and his translations.
I don't think it was designed to be "inductance cancellation" as we still have more turns counterclockwise than clockwise (or the other way around) and for what reason do we need an inductionless coil?
We might then use only a capacitor as that is what is left.
Anyway, i will do some measurements with my nanoVNA to see how the inductance varies over a frequency range and at what frequency it flips over (the zero inductance point) from an inductance to capacitance (if doing so).
Let's see what we can come up with.
Itsu
It probably is a multi-wave LC delay line or in the sound industry a vibrator/echo chamber.
As I do not know how it is wound (a diagram would be good), that is a guess.
See attached which is multi-phase if the inductances are different on each side.
Regards
Mike
I posted the wrong tread, need to get used to this site.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.24, 09:00:04
H
F.I. i want to figure out if there can be standing waves present in this Grenade/inductor and under what conditions.
Regards Itsu
Hi Itsu,
I did a lot of work on grenade research together with Lostbro years ago.
Our goal was to create a grenade 37.5m which also has its resonance frequency at 2Mhz.
The wirelength of 37.5m would give a oppertunity to create a 1/4 standingwave at 2Mhz which means it has double resonance.
Vew months ago I succeeded in realizing this 2Mhz resonance goal.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.05.25, 17:09:44
It probably is a multi-wave LC delay line or in the sound industry a vibrator/echo chamber.
As I do not know how it is wound (a diagram would be good), that is a guess.
See attached which is multi-phase if the inductances are different on each side.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
thanks for your insights, my Grenade coil is wound as mentioned here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333
Itsu
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.05.25, 19:01:41
Hi Itsu,
I did a lot of work on grenade research together with Lostbro years ago.
Our goal was to create a grenade 37.5m which also has its resonance frequency at 2Mhz.
The wirelength of 37.5m would give a oppertunity to create a 1/4 standingwave at 2Mhz which means it has double resonance.
Vew months ago I succeeded in realizing this 2Mhz resonance goal.
Hi Ape,
good to see you here, i think Nick can now remove your wrong post in the other thread
I used my nanoVNA to measure the Grenade especially the inductance (upper graph) and the impedance (lower graph) over a 10kHz to 20Mhz range.
But i first made the same measurement using a 47uH choke for comparing:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47837;image)
The result of this 47uH choke is this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47843;image)
So we see a slowly increasing impedance (lower graph of the 2) till resonance at 10Mhz.
Then i used my Grenade:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47831;image)
The result of my Grenade looks like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47845;image)
So we see a starting inductance of around 160uH at 15kHz (upper graph of the 2) till a resonance at just under 2mHz
So my Grenade (inclusive Inductor and Antenna) has similar parameters as yours (2Mhz resonance).
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.25, 13:24:37
Max: Did you figure out why your unit is flipping the over amp protection circuit. Does your mosfet get real hot. It may be that you have too much current going in.
I use a couple of chokes at the input, as well as some filter caps, as per the Ruslan, or Stalker's schematic. This diagram below, was for the induction circuit that I replicated.
NickZ
Hi Nickz,
Am still working on it. I think it's the back emf effect and I have used snubber circuit to reduce that ,. But it's not enough. I really want to get the voltage feeding my Tesla controlled circuit up to 130vdc and above because that is where the effect is in most cases. At that stage you see it shaking violently on scope.
As for weather my transistor is hot the answer is no.
Maxolous
Hi Max,
when you say "At that stage (>130V input) you see it shaking violently on scope" what do you mean with "it"?
Is it not the intense HV HF from the kacher influencing your scope?
I remember several times with a strong kacher my scopes go crazy.
Itsu
apecore:
Good to see you here, and that you are posting again, and hopefully building and testing also.
I followed you on the OU.com thread, but, you quit posting there. So, good to see you here.
I'm also hoping that Geofusion chimes in, "Hello there guys", as well. And any other builders, like Vasik, Tomtech, and of course me as well, as I plan to focus on these devices, and continue on with the tests and trials.
I'll let my other thread on this forum, go out of site. As I can't seam to be able to remove it.
NickZ
PS. Max carefull with those high Kacher voltages, once you have a scope. You may have to NOT use the negative black scope lead, as once you put both leads on the induction circuits, with the Kacher also on, you'll be grounding the positive Kacher pulse to ground, through the scopes negative lead, due to the scope's grid tied ground connection. As well as sending all that voltage to your push pull's delicate circuit. Also at 130v the HV streamer will ground out, anywhere it can. The effect generation has been shown working even as low as 12v.
Ruslan mentioned that you don't need a "strong Kacher". The ideas is NOT to add, but to interrupt the induction circuit's field instead. Of course when adding 130v to the circuit, things will fry, immediately. Just trying to avoid you burning up your scope, and circuits. But, I did notice that your streamer can be barely seen, so, not sure if you have the duty cycle set very low, or why that spark is so small. Anyway, good luck with your set up.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 08:41:44
Hi Max,
when you say "At that stage (>130V input) you see it shaking violently on scope" what do you mean with "it"?
Is it not the intense HV HF from the kacher influencing your scope?
I remember several times with a strong kacher my scopes go crazy.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
By comparison; when you compare the scope shot of this video ;https://youtu.be/J7du9f-f9t0
To the scope shot of this; https://youtu.be/oC-YP1aDj4Q , you will notice the difference in signal movement. The later could not attain the violent movement of the former because voltage lever is low(maximum 65vdc) and few pulses. Any attempt to increase either of them( voltage or pulse) beyond a certain limit, device will trip off. Whereas, that is the moment of current addition.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 13:13:09
NickZ
PS. Max carefull with those high Kacher voltages, once you have a scope. You may have to NOT use the negative black scope lead, as once you put both leads on the induction circuits, with the Kacher also on, you'll be grounding the positive Kacher pulse to ground, through the scopes negative lead, due to the scope's grid tied ground connection. As well as sending all that voltage to your push pull's delicate circuit. Also at 130v the HV streamer will ground out, anywhere it can, unless you tone down the duty cycle. And if the Kacher coils aren't tuned to the right self running frequency, the circuits frequency trim pots controller will not really make up for it.
Thanks for the piece of advice.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 13:13:09
Ruslan mentioned that you don't need a "strong Kacher".
He was referring to those blazing Tesla coil build like those called Slayer that could arc up to 20cm and above.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 13:13:09
The ideas is NOT to add, but to interrupt the induction circuit's field instead.
If it doesn't interrupt how will it add.
Maxolous
Max: The kacher signal will do nothing to improve the output of the induction circuit pulse, IF, the kacher signal is not in resonance. And if you don't have a proper earth ground line, also. Your kacher looks too long to provide for the right frequency needed. About 1.5MHz or so. Not like yours which is running at too low a frequency for resonance.
5mm streamers should be long enough, more will cause problems. There should be no violent shaking going on. That is not a good sign.
Please connect some bulbs. To see any real interaction. The load of bulbs needs to be above 300 to 500 watts, so as to not be fooled by the improved output, due to the addition of more voltage and current from the Kacher. A smaller load of bulbs will light up more, but, with no OU, nor able to self run. So, don't be fooled by that.
Max, the ideas is not to ADD, anything. The purpose of the Kacher is an interruptor circuit, not meant to ADD. Meant to STOP the induction circuit, instead.
For those that think that what Ruslan said about a simple kacher not able to add anything, because it's AC signal will take away what it gives, should see my video, showing how I can light even a 100w bulb, at the grenade's output, with just my Kacher on.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 13:42:29
Max, the ideas is not to ADD, anything. The purpose of the Kacher is an interruptor circuit, not meant to ADD. Meant to STOP the induction circuit, instead.
For those that think that what Ruslan said about a simple kacher not able to add anything, because it's AC signal will take away what it gives, should see my video, showing how I can light even a 100w bulb, at the grenade's output, with just my Kacher on.
NickZ
Does the whole kacher process subtract?
The idea of the kacher is that it is what Tesla calls an interrupter circuit. Meant to stop the induction circuits pulse, so that voltage as well as current will be increased.
Like my analogy of pinching and quickly releasing the water hose, to see how it increases the force of the water. In our case, the output at the bulbs, and at the feed back circuit.
Much of what Ruslan mentioned, is BS. If it wasn't for Oleg, his circuit builder, he would have nothing to show for it. I do trust what Stalker says, instead. And he has the best videos.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 14:09:37
The idea of the kacher is that it is what Tesla calls an interrupter circuit. Meant to stop the induction circuits pulse, so that voltage as well as current will be increased.
Like my analogy of pinching and quickly releasing the water hose, to see how it increases the force of the water. In our case, the output at the bulbs, and at the feed back circuit.
Much of what Ruslan mentioned, is BS. If it wasn't for Oleg, his circuit builder, he would have nothing to show for it. I do trust what Stalker says, instead. And he has the best videos.
NickZ
Am glad you said voltage and current will increase, that's increase in power
Maxolous
Max:
Yes, that is the idea. Now, to put it to the test. But, tuning is the toughest part, and not easy to get the all the right frequencies working properly, as they should.
That is why this is all so difficult to do. And if the grenade output is not sufficient, the feed back circuit will not produce hardly any output, and possibly not even light its green Led indicator.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.05.26, 13:13:39
Hi Itsu,
By comparison; when you compare the scope shot of this video ;https://youtu.be/J7du9f-f9t0
To the scope shot of this; https://youtu.be/oC-YP1aDj4Q , you will notice the difference in signal movement. The later could not attain the violent movement of the former because voltage lever is low(maximum 65vdc) and few pulses. Any attempt to increase either of them( voltage or pulse) beyond a certain limit, device will trip off. Whereas, that is the moment of current addition.
Maxolous
Max,
so looking at both screenshots:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47863;image)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47865;image)
I see 1st screenshot the (yellow) kacher ringing down completely, but it seems the kacher signal is not there all the time it seems to skip 1 or 2 pulses compared to the blue square wave, making it look like a violent type of signal.
But you trigger on the blue signal using a video type triggering and the blue and yellow signals are very low amplitude (500mV/div. only).
Also, the blue signal frequency is 46kHz but as said with very low (too low?) amplitude.
The kacher signal seems to be synced to the start of the blue rising pulse.
In the 2nd screenshot i see the yellow kacher signal more as unidirectional pulses at 5V/div and also the blue square wave is now 5V/div, but at a lower frequency of 25kHz.
You now trigger on the blue signal rising edge, with the yellow kacher signal synced to almost half of the blue signal pulse.
So what i am trying to say is that both screenshots show very different circumstances and settings and without any information on where these signals are taken from (diagram), it is very difficult to diagnose any problems.
This and the almost impossibility to hear anything you are saying makes it virtually impossible to help you i am afraid.
Could you more specifically tell what you mean with "device will trip off", what will trip? Do you have an automatic fuse tripping?
Itsu
Another point that I want to mention, is that the Kacher signal pulse may need to be ideally placed at the Off time of the push pull signal pulse, instead of on the ON time. As there is less resistance at the OFF times. But, of this I'm not certain, as I have not tried it. But, I think that itsu did try that and did not get much better result, or output while testing. However, I still think that it's worth a try.
Below is an image from Stalker's video, although it may not be his scope shot. The idea is what counts. And will also need testing. Remember that if there is no ground line, nor resonance, then don't expect that magically the placement of the Kacher signal will make any difference.
The earth ground line, at about the same size as the grenade output coil, or 1/2 size made of welding cable, and Kacher to induction circuit resonances, are prerequisites, to seeing any effects, at all. Sometimes I can go for days without the slightest effect of what I call the Radio Moscow, sound, nor any other signs of resonance, or improvements. That hissing sound does indicate some form of resonance. In my opinion. Along with the ability to light several 100w bulbs brightly. Not just barely...
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
Max,
so looking at both screenshots:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47863;image)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47865;image)
I see 1st screenshot the (yellow) kacher ringing down completely, but it seems the kacher signal is not there all the time it seems to skip 1 or 2 pulses compared to the blue square wave, making it look like a violent type of signal.
Hi Itsu.
Your observations are right. The first signals were taken while the probes,(blue) on push pull ic output, put while the second probe(yellow) hung around the antenna of kacher. At this time the signal from kacher was grossly absorbed, so I have to zoom in to bring out the scope shot. Hence, the low amplitudes.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
But you trigger on the blue
signal using a video type triggering and the blue and yellow signals are very low amplitude (500mV/div. only).
Also, the blue signal frequency is 46kHz but as said with very low (too low?) amplitude.
The kacher signal seems to be synced to the start of the blue rising pulse.
The signal of the kacher started at the start blue rising edge because that was where sync took strong effect. Moreso, at this stage I have not built in my delay circuit to delay pp signal. Remember, when Tesla is late pp must be delayed. That was what you saw in the following shot when the signal was at the crest. The freq of 46khz you saw was as a result of kacher effect, you already know that it may double or triple.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
In the 2nd screenshot i see the yellow kacher signal more as unidirectional pulses at 5V/div and also the blue square wave is now 5V/div, but at a lower frequency of 25kHz.
The unidirectional signal you saw was taken from gate of mosfet unlike the first screen shot which depicts signal taken from above kacher antenna and it was oscillating at it resonance freq.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
You now trigger on the blue signal rising edge, with the yellow kacher signal synced to almost half of the blue signal pulse.
At this time I had Incorporated delay cct. So, sync became effectively strong there
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
So what i am trying to say is that both screenshots show very different circumstances and settings and without any information on where these signals are taken from (diagram), it is very difficult to diagnose any problems.
They were different time actually.
I was only trying to show you how I should have it if not that it was tripping off. I couldn't go full throttle.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
This and the almost impossibility to hear anything you are saying
I know . It's my phone's problem. Maybe I'll need a mic
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 15:52:26
Could you more specifically tell what you mean with "device will trip off", what will trip? Do you have an automatic fuse tripping?
Itsu
I will figure it out soon.
Maybe I need to put a diode in my ps.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 16:43:49
Another point that I want to mention, is that the Kacher signal pulse may need to be ideally placed at the Off time of the push pull signal pulse, instead of on the ON time. As there is less resistance at the OFF times. But, of this I'm not certain, as I have not tried it. But, I think that itsu did try that and did not get much better result, or output while testing. However, I still think that it's worth a try.
Below is an image from Stalker's video, although it may not be his scope shot. The idea is what counts. And will also need testing. Remember that if there is no ground line, nor resonance, then don't expect that magically the placement of the Kacher signal will make any difference.
The earth ground line, at about the same size as the grenade output coil, or 1/2 size made of welding cable, and Kacher to induction circuit resonances, are prerequisites, to seeing any effects, at all. Sometimes I can go for days without the slightest effect of what I call the Radio Moscow, sound, nor any other signs of resonance, or improvements. That hissing sound does indicate some form of resonance. In my opinion. Along with the ability to light several 100w bulbs brightly. Not just barely...
NickZ
Hi Nickz,
You are completely wrong there. You have to know what you're doing if you must make headway building this contraption. It doesn't give room for mediocrity.
You must be meticulous about it. Otherwise, you could do 99% and still not have effect. You see, right shoe for right foot and left shoe for left foot that's how it works. I made a video about that.
https://youtu.be/Bi7Wqpo9ihw
You must choose where to put it according to your push-pull side.
Your two signals from your pp are displaced by 180° . You cannot choose one as been fed to your controlled tests and put it on the other.
I found out that there are so much deception in the net. Most cct were perverted.
Maxolous.
Max,
thanks for your explanations, although i still have some questions like when you say:
"The first signals were taken while the probes,(blue) on push pull ic output" does it mean that the push pull ic output only outputs a 1V amplitude?
or when you say:
"The freq of 46khz you saw was as a result of kacher effect, you already know that it may double or triple" does that mean that the kacher is causing the push pull IC to almost double its frequency? I never saw that happening with me.
By the way, again looking at the scope, the 1st blue signal period spans 6.6 divisions of 5us meaning 33us or a frequency of 30kHz, so not the shown 46kHz (15us positive, 18us zero, so a duty cycle of 45.45%).
The 2nd blue positive signal spans 3.4 divisions of 5us or 17us, so if with again 45.45% duty cycle, this means a frequency of 27kHz, so no tripling or doubling and the shown 46 and 25kHz can not be right.
But i understand you are still looking for the reason your device is tripping off and as you are the only one knowing how your device is build up, i wish you success with that.
Edited some wrong timing calculations
Itsu
Max:
What I mentioned above are NOT my ideas, and therefore I am not "wrong".
As mentioned, I am just repeating what Stalker has suggested, in his video. Not trying to force MY ideas on you.
If you think that Stalker is wrong or lying even, then so be it. But, it's not me that said that, but him.
So, therefore when you say that my comment is "wrong", well, it may be, and is why I'm putting it out there to be tested. Itsu may have given it a shot, but, as mentioned unless you have your tuned earth ground line and Kacher/induction circuit resonance in place, you are not really testing what happens to these circuits.
Also, we can't tell what you are saying, on your videos, at all. Sorry.
When you say in your post that someone is "completely wrong", (me), you should be completely ready to explain why you think so, and have some proof of that.
Otherwise, we get no where, and I do feel that Stalker is not trying to fool us. Nor is he trying to make a profit on any of this, as Ruslan, and others are.
NIckZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 19:43:47
Max,
thanks for your explanations, although i still have some questions like when you say:
"The first signals were taken while the probes,(blue) on push pull ic output" does it mean that the push pull ic output only outputs a 1V amplitude?
I haven't measured it anyhow, signal voltages from pp ic output are usually small maybe 2v or 3v
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 19:43:47
or when you say:
"The freq of 46khz you saw was as a result of kacher effect, you already know that it may double or triple" does that mean that the kacher is causing the push pull IC to almost double its frequency? I never saw that happening with me.
Due to the shaky effect of kacher on pp, yes. Apparently, scope sees more signals than when pp is steady.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 19:43:47
By the way, again looking at the scope, the 1st blue signal period spans 6.6us meaning a frequency of 151kHz, so not the shown 46kHz (3us positive, 3.6us zero, so a duty cycle of 45.45%).
The 2nd blue positive signal spans 3.4us, so if with again 45.45% duty cycle, this means a frequency of 135kHz, so no tripling or doubling and the shown 46 and 25kHz can not be right.
The second build signal resonates at 25khz I might not remember the freq. of the first build of head
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.26, 19:43:47
But i understand you are still looking for the reason your device is tripping off and as you are the only one knowing how your device is build up, i wish you success with that.
Itsu
Yeah!
It should not be much problem. The first build didn't have such problem.
I will find solution to it soon.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.26, 20:45:38
Max:
What I mentioned above are NOT my ideas, and therefore I am not "wrong".
As mentioned, I am just repeating what Stalker has suggested, in his video. Not trying to force MY ideas on you.
If you think that Stalker is wrong or lying even, then so be it. But, it's not me that said that, but him.
So, therefore when you say that my comment is "wrong", well, it may be, and is why I'm putting it out there to be tested. Itsu may have given it a shot, but, as mentioned unless you have your tuned earth ground line and Kacher/induction circuit resonance in place, you are not really testing what happens to these circuits.
Also, we can't tell what you are saying, on your videos, at all. Sorry.
When you say in your post that someone is "completely wrong", (me), you should be completely ready to explain why you think so, and have some proof of that.
Otherwise, we get no where, and I do feel that Stalker is not trying to fool us. Nor is he trying to make a profit on any of this, as Ruslan, and others are.
NIckZ
Nickz,
For my video, I think you will hear me better if you put on your earpiece. Sorry for that.
Stalker specifically pointed out that pulses are put at the start of a rising edge. That was demonstrated in one of his videos when he spoke about delay cct for pp. However, I found out that, a longer delay could shift the sync position farther to the crest.
Now, if you took one output of pp signal and fed it to the controlled Tesla and put your scope probe on the other one, it would appear that the off period is where your kacher signal is. I hope you get
Maxolous
If i remember correctly, the kacher needs to be fired on a specific moment compared to the Inductor sine wave like shown in this screenshot Nick provided a few posts ago:
Where that specific point is in relation to the Push Pull signal (creating the Inductor sine wave) i am not sure yet.
By the way, my Push Pull (TL494) runs on 12V, so its output signals are 12V going to a TC4093 (for delay) also running on 12V so with also 12V output signals feeding the MOSFET drivers.
Itsu
AG:
As I had mentioned, although the previous scope shot that I posted may not have been from Stalker. However he did post it on his video as an example of what to look for.
Sergey's directions post below was from Stalker. Might be interesting.
It was sent to me by one of our members here. As he knows that I have some faith in what Stalker says. Possibly some of the ideas may not be translated quite right, though.
One of my doubts is his grenade frequency, of 15.6MHz, and that it needs to output HF, or it won't work. Is 15KHz to 20KHz considered high frequency?
What do you think about this Itsu? As the rest of the system needs to be tuned to the grenade. And you are about to make further tests of your grenade.
AG:
I think that the scope shot I posted is NOT ambiguous, and no one else has shown anything like that, as yet.
Remember I am on the track of what is truth, and what is BS, not just some untested opinions. If what I mention is really wrong, as Max thinks, (and he then makes a big point of it), of just how "completely wrong" I am. I'll be the first one to change my opinion. I'm not trying to make a point of anything. Trying to build something that WORKS...
« Sent to: NickZ on: May 26, 2023,
A fragment from conversation with Sergey Stalker
A gradient coil is a high-frequency resonator that operates simultaneously at several frequencies that are multiples of a half wave. It is also a capacitor plate in relation to the antenna.
I have a 15.6 megahertz gradient coil frequency, antenna is at the same frequency.
Tesla tuned to antenna at a multiplicity of 1.5 megahertz with a little offset. Antenna - a top capacitance for Tesla coil.
The antenna wire coiled into a spiral emits at 15.6 megahertz.
Shnyaga is optional, this is a mirror for the antenna wave. Often a connection of wires of different diameters is sufficient.
This is only important when using a kacher to modulate high frequency. If the circuit is a controlled Tesla coil, then the effect of the magnetic field (from gradient coil) is not required.
Everything starts with a gradient coil and is built to match it. Antenna to match the gradient coil,
Tesla coil to match the antenna. Push pool to match the gradient coil.
If the gradient coil does not work - there is no HF spectrum, then nothing will come of it, just rewind.
Grounding through a diode to the cold end of the grenade (cathode to the ground).
Tesla coil also grounded (directly).
The diode does not need to affect the operation of the coil, it affects the operation of the capacitor formed by the coils.
In relation to the gradient coil, the diode is located in the current node.
The collision of magnetic fields creates a diverging wave from the center of the conductor to the edges, and the process of interference begins with the formation of the RF spectrum. The frequency at which collisions occur is neither dependent on the load nor on whether the ends are closed or open. This is not LC resonance, so it is convenient to tune everything to match it.
I called it magnetic resonance for myself.
Q: And if so, which magnetic fields are colliding? Gradient coil's inductor and the grenadeitself?
In the grenade itself, from two counter wound bifilar coils.
Q: or "halves" of a grenade?
You can also call them halves.
First, gradient coil is made, its magnetic resonance determined, then we look at whether it generates
a HF spectrum when shorted, if so, then it's cool, if not - throwing the turns over the layers and see
what comes out, rework until it produce some HF.
According to the HF spectrum of the gradient coil, we determine on which frequency we will work
on - this will be the frequency for the antenna.
Tesla is built in multiplicity to match the antenna.
Push pool in multiplicity to magnetic resonance.
I called it magnetic resonance, since two bifilar electromagnets interact. This is not LC resonance.
The frequency does not change either from the load, or from the presence of closed or open ends of
the gradient coil. LC is sure to detune very far in such changing conditions.
Ground wire 18 meters and a buried stainless steel case from an old washing machine.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.27, 13:43:22
« Sent to: NickZ on: May 26, 2023,
A fragment from conversation with Sergey Stalker
A gradient coil is a high-frequency resonator that operates simultaneously at several frequencies that are multiples of a half wave. It is also a capacitor plate in relation to the antenna.
I have a 15.6 megahertz gradient coil frequency, antenna is at the same frequency.
Tesla tuned to antenna at a multiplicity of 1.5 megahertz with a little offset. Antenna - a top capacitance for Tesla coil.
The antenna wire coiled into a spiral emits at 15.6 megahertz.
Shnyaga is optional, this is a mirror for the antenna wave. Often a connection of wires of different diameters is sufficient.
This is only important when using a kacher to modulate high frequency. If the circuit is a controlled Tesla coil, then the effect of the magnetic field (from gradient coil) is not required.
Everything starts with a gradient coil and is built to match it. Antenna to match the gradient coil,
Tesla coil to match the antenna. Push pool to match the gradient coil.
If the gradient coil does not work - there is no HF spectrum, then nothing will come of it, just rewind.
Grounding through a diode to the cold end of the grenade (cathode to the ground).
Tesla coil also grounded (directly).
The diode does not need to affect the operation of the coil, it affects the operation of the capacitor formed by the coils.
In relation to the gradient coil, the diode is located in the current node.
The collision of magnetic fields creates a diverging wave from the center of the conductor to the edges, and the process of interference begins with the formation of the RF spectrum. The frequency at which collisions occur is neither dependent on the load nor on whether the ends are closed or open. This is not LC resonance, so it is convenient to tune everything to match it.
I called it magnetic resonance for myself.
Q: And if so, which magnetic fields are colliding? Gradient coil's inductor and the grenadeitself?
In the grenade itself, from two counter wound bifilar coils.
Q: or "halves" of a grenade?
You can also call them halves.
First, gradient coil is made, its magnetic resonance determined, then we look at whether it generates
a HF spectrum when shorted, if so, then it's cool, if not - throwing the turns over the layers and see
what comes out, rework until it produce some HF.
According to the HF spectrum of the gradient coil, we determine on which frequency we will work
on - this will be the frequency for the antenna.
Tesla is built in multiplicity to match the antenna.
Push pool in multiplicity to magnetic resonance.
I called it magnetic resonance, since two bifilar electromagnets interact. This is not LC resonance.
The frequency does not change either from the load, or from the presence of closed or open ends of
the gradient coil. LC is sure to detune very far in such changing conditions.
Ground wire 18 meters and a buried stainless steel case from an old washing machine.
I see everything here as true.
Dear Nickz,
Nothing is wrong with PP freq. of 15.6KHZ. it is workable.
Maxolous
Nickz and Itsu,
I found out why my device was tripping off: the pathway of signal from the drain of my controlled Tesla MOSFET to earth was not properly established. It was caused by when I was etching my prototype board for this build.
My oversight.
Maxolous
Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz. Even a kacher can't go that high.
That's why I asked itsu what he thinks. And the antenna coil has to match that, as well.
perhaps I don't ubderstand. The whole ststem has to match the 15.6MHz frequency???
Pease correct me, if I'm not getting this.
NickZ
Max,
good to hear you found the problem, so now you can go full throttle O0
Nick,
that's an interesting piece of information you got there, but it raises more questions (due to translation problems?) than giving answers.
QuoteA gradient coil is a high-frequency resonator that operates simultaneously at several frequencies that are multiples of a half wave
This gradient coil (Grenade) is indeed a high-frequency resonator as i have shown, mine resonates at 2MHz.
But 2Mhz corresponds to a wavelength of 150m and as my Grenade is build out of 37.5m long wire it therefor looks like it resonates as a 1/4 (quarter) wave length resonator (most obvious).
On the other hand, it is common practice to "shorten" an antenna by inserting a coil (coiling up a part of the antenna wire) in the antenna wire so that you have a physical shorter antenna then the wavelength of the frequency would dictate.
It could be that this Grenade is cramping all of its 150m wavelength into this 37.5m due to its being coiled up the way it is (less obvious).
If i go for the most obvious way (1/4 (quarter) wave length resonator), then we need to turn it into a 1/2 (half) wave resonator (4Mhz) and let it create multiple harmonics (8, 16, etc. MHz).
1/2 (half) wave resonators (antenna's) are normally fed in the middle to create a half-wave dipole, but this is not possible here.
So even the above single sentence is raising so many questions.
So no, i do not see my Grenade being a 15.6 megahertz gradient coil frequency (does that means his Grenade resonates as 15.6MHz?) nor is my antenna, which according to this calculator:
https://hamwaves.com/inductance/en/index.html#input is self resonating at 41MHz.
And yes, i do consider 15kHz to 20kHz to be HF as there are radio transmitters in that range see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_low_frequency.
Sorry for creating more confusion perhaps.
Need to study this piece of information further.
Itsu
Concerning my measurement of the Grenade using the nanoVNA (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104820#msg104820), some additional information.
With the VNA you can make some 3 different measurements as shown in this picture (the DUT (Device Under Test) being the Grenade):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47878;image)
I used the last (Series Measurement) for that measurement, but i now also used the first (Shunt Measurement) measurement to double-check with this as result (frequency span reduced to 5mHz):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47880;image)
We again see a resonance point at around 2MHz (1.859)
This result is kind of as expected, but also poses some problems IMO like, how is it possible that a 37.5m long wire wired up as a Grenade can resonate on 2MHz?
As mentioned earlier, 2Mhz frequency is a wavelength of 150m, so does this mean that the Grenade (37.5M long wire) is resonating as a 1/4 (one quarter) wave resonator.
I will try to make other measurements using the nanoVNA like with a ground plane underneath the Grenade and in Series Measurement to see if i can get a different outcome (1/2 (half) wave resonance).
Itsu
Itsu,
It's indeed a ¼wave resonance.
Maxolous
Max,
i tend to agree looking at the graph, so like our tesla coil / kacher.
But a coil also should have a half wave resonance point and some harmonics, but the graph does not show any.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.28, 08:50:26
Max,
i tend to agree looking at the graph, so like our tesla coil / kacher.
But a coil also should have a half wave resonance point and some harmonics, but the graph does not show any.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
One of the best method for me to check my grenade coil is to use spectrum analyzer. We have gone through that in the past. It's still very invaluable to me.
Once you know the resonance frequency of your grenade coil , go to it sub-harmonic driven by square wave to attract all it harmonic freq. You know square wave is made up of other sine waves. Detect by evaluation the one that suit your device. Such parasitic wave is what you need to drive your Tesla, if we'll mimicked you will see results.
Maxolous
It is also important to note that if a coil is not well wound, you may never see usable harmonic.
I usually get result when my inductance is equal or less than 100μH
Maxolous
Itsu:
Ok, thanks for your opinion. As you may know, I am not good at math, nor do I want to be. So, your opinions are very valuable to me.
The guy who passed this information to me, also mentioned that there is NO errors due to the translation. And that makes things even more uncertain.
My grenade is old, like about 5 years old, but it also runs best at around 1.8KHz, or so, also. Depending on tuning caps, of which I am limited on, especially the WIMA 0.47uf inductor tuning capacitors. As well as the 0.1uf wima caps for the grenade output side, before the rectifier. As mine can get very hot and crack. Mine are cracked, but fixed with epoxy, and still work.
While my Kacher runs best at around 950KHz to about 1.2MHz, or so. So, the suggested frequency and harmonics matches mentioned by others don't work for me, and so therefore I tune by tuning for best gain, instead.
Any way, I also don't think that the information provided is factual, nor makes much sense to me. As well as also some of the other information written by Stalker previously.
Therefore I don't know if we can just build away without any issues nor problems, using his information. As you have done itsu previously, and I also feel that this info is not factual, and may be in error. Also keeping in mind that no two self runner are running at the same frequencies, so, I tune by gain, not by set frequencies. As I found out that NOTHING happen, using the supposed harmonics, nor suggested set frequencies. But, the actual sync, can be somewhere close by, instead. Geofusion had pretty interesting results, even without using a scope, at first.
NIckZ
With a well arrangements of your modules(grenade, tank circuit, yoke coils, diodes, inductors, Tesla coil shinyaga, push-pull, controlled Tesla or kacher, caps) you will see gain. Even without resonance. Resonance is used to maximize output. I found that out
Maxolous
Max: Not one person in any of our forums has shown an actual gain, perhaps you'll be the first. This is about overunity, and self running etc. Not just about showing a gain, or resonance, but providing for some actual OU, instead. The more, the better. As lighting a little Led bulb for free, is not going to be of much help.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.05.28, 13:34:05
With a well arrangements of your modules(grenade, tank circuit, yoke coils, diodes, inductors, Tesla coil shinyaga, push-pull, controlled Tesla or kacher, caps) you will see gain. Even without resonance. Resonance is used to maximize output. I found that out
Maxolous
Max: Not one person in any of our forums has shown an actual gain, perhaps you'll be the first. This is about overunity, and self running etc. Not just about showing a gain, or resonance, but providing for some actual OU, instead. The more, the better. As lighting a little Led bulb for free, is not going to be of much help.
NickZ
Nickz,
What is gain, gain is taken out what you put in and have some extra.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.05.28, 09:55:47
Hi Itsu,
One of the best method for me to check my grenade coil is to use spectrum analyzer. We have gone through that in the past. It's still very invaluable to me.
Once you know the resonance frequency of your grenade coil , go to it sub-harmonic driven by square wave to attract all it harmonic freq. You know square wave is made up of other sine waves. Detect by evaluation the one that suit your device. Such parasitic wave is what you need to drive your Tesla, if we'll mimicked you will see results.
Maxolous
Hi Max,
the nanoVNA also uses a square wave to excite the device under test, so i would expect to see the harmonics there as well.
But i will try using my spectrum analyzer to see if i have different results.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.28, 19:19:25
Hi Max,
the nanoVNA also uses a square wave to excite the device under test, so i would expect to see the harmonics there as well.
But i will try using my spectrum analyzer to see if i have different results.
Itsu
Itsu,
Okay,
Sure do.
Itsu:
What is a nanoVNA. Sorry to ask.
I'll bet you'll get all the harmonics showing up on your analyzer. As they are most likely, all there.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.28, 21:57:44
Itsu:
What is a nanoVNA. Sorry to ask.
I'll bet you'll get all the harmonics showing up on your analyzer. As they are most likely, all there.
NickZ
Nick,
a nanoVNA is a handheld VNA (Vector Network Analyzer) and can be used to measure all kind of parameters of a device like a Spectrum Analyzer does, but there are differences: https://www.testandmeasurementtips.com/how-spectrum-analyzers-differ-from-network-analyzers/
My nanoVNA has a frequency sweeping range from 10kHz to 2.7GHz, and it has 2 ports to attach the DUT (Device Under Test) and a USB interface to a PC to show the results on (or on its little screen), see picture.
As can be seen here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104820#msg104820 i already used it to analyze my Grenade on inductance and impedance across a 10kHz to 20MHz range.
There you can see that my Grenade resonates around 2MHz but that almost no harmonics are seen.
But as Max also mentioned, perhaps the better instrument to look for harmonics is the Spectrum Analyzer which works differently than the nanoVNA and might show them.
Itsu
Itsu:
Thanks for the explanation. Now I understand.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.29, 14:30:31
Guys:
Here is a video explaining the how and why when a circuit is opened, what happens to the emf or bemf, and why this effect may be important in our OU devices.
Also why the Kacher may be taking advantage of the OFF times, that I mentioned. And why the Kacher is not actually adding anything, but interrupting the flow from the magnetic induction circuit, thus producing a higher output therefrom, each time the field changes directions. As this also can affect the surrounding ambient medium around the device. What Ruslan called "shakes or vibrates" the surrounding ambient near the coils, thus causing this additional energy to enter the device, by this type of disruption, from the Aether surrounding the device. This effect was also noticed by Tesla, and he also has explained the dangers it can cause.
https://youtu.be/mWT0VTUxbQg
Max, this information and video are for you, and anyone else wondering how the BEMF can be the cause and reason for any additional extra energy. Which is further affected by the Kacher's interruptor signal pulse. It's also important to tune the Kacher coils size first, to their self running frequency, that matches the needed inductor/grenade frequencies, and not to expect the trim pots on the circuits will make up for it. As the kacher's coils need to be first turned to the proper resonant frequency, matched to the rest of the induction circuits.
This is where things get very tricky.
NickZ
Itsu,
The grenade is indeed a 1/4 wave resonator as obtained by exposing the grenade to a teslacoil with same frequency..
You have one side 0V and other end max V
When you finetune the last layer and get it to 2Mhz exact in DUT mode you will see 1,4,6 and 8Mhz harmonics also.
Because you need a groundwire I used a 37.5m 16mm^2 in order to match 1/2 wave.
In my opinion lower frequency resonating grenades need to be compensated by groundwire length.
My opinion
Ape
Hi Ape,
thanks for your opinion.
It seems so that it is a 1/4 wave resonator the way i have measured it (equipment ground to one end forcing it to 1/4 wave resonance), but it should be able to resonate at 1/2 wave by hooking it up differently, only then to measure it is another story.
Not sure how the Grenade is hooked up in the Ruslan setup (no ground connected directly to it as i understand, see ground connection on the left side of the diagram) so it could be in half-wave resonance.
Also, when it is resonating slightly under 2MHz it also should have harmonics, so these harmonics are not linked alone to the 2MHz frequency and will be slightly under 4, 6, 8 etc. MHz me thinks.
Regards Itsu
Itsu:
My 28 turn yoke secondary coil connects to the grenade output coil just like in your Stalkers diagram. I've tried different ways to connect things up. But you can try placing your earth ground line on the wima O.47uf capacitor. Or at wima tuning cap 0.15uf at the grenade output where the output is taken from, but before the full bridge rectifier. Or any where or point that you notice an improvement, at the output or at the bulbs. Then with the ground line connected resonance tuning can be done.
Without having proper resonance, the ground line won't make any difference. That's how to tell if you have properly tuned for resonance, or not.
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.05.29, 18:59:24
Not sure how the Grenade is hooked up in the Ruslan setup (no ground connected directly to it as i understand, see ground connection on the left side of the diagram) so it could be in half-wave resonance.
Regards Itsu
Itsu,
Incase you're wondering where to put your earth as in Ruslan style;
-Put your grenade in place under antenna
-Start your controlled Tesla or kacher(betterfor the test)
-Place a 40w bulb on grenade O/P
-Use earth to tease both grenade terminals when kacher is on.
-Find out which is brighter.
-You just determined your grenade side that will be earthed
Note. The PP will be off
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.05.30, 02:53:54
Itsu:
My 28 turn yoke secondary coil connects to the grenade output coil just like in your Stalkers diagram. I've tried different ways to connect things up. But you can try placing your earth ground line on the wima O.47uf capacitor. Or at wima tuning cap 0.15uf at the grenade output where the output is taken from, but before the full bridge rectifier. Or any where or point that you notice an improvement, at the output or at the bulbs. Then with the ground line connected resonance tuning can be done.
Without having proper resonance, the ground line won't make any difference. That's how to tell if you have properly tuned for resonance, or not.
NickZ
Nickz,
I have been wondering if you have fixed system because you always talk about .47μf thus 470 nf. I have pulled down my system uncountable times and I have wound my grenade more than 50times, it is part of the research.
From the way you're saying it, it is your cap that determine your PP resonance frequency and not your grenade.
Am just thinking aloud.
Maxolous
Nick, Max,
thanks for your suggestions, but i presently only have the Grenade (with Inductor and Antenna) under test.
I first like to map the workings of it in terms of resonances (harmonics) and standing waves if they exist.
Itsu
Itsu: Of course, I understand. You mentioned not sure where to place the Earth ground line. Or how to connect the yoke secondary up to the grenade coil. So, that is why I answered.
Max: I'm not sure what you are saying.
My induction circuit is connected to the yoke, which is tuned by the mentioned 0.47uf capacitor, plus by the push pull controller circuit, for frequency, and duty cycle adjustments.
I follow the schematic, and place the 0.47uf 2000v wima tuning capacitor on the inductor circuit, where it is shown on the diagram, or schematic.
Of course I have a grenade, which is also wound according to the schematics, just one time, I do have another 4 inch yoke that I wound a bit different to test with , as well.
There is also another tuning capacitor at the grenade coil's output, as mentioned previously. These caps are there to tune the inductor, and grenade output coil frequency, to their best frequency. I could also use some more tuning caps as well.
And yes, my Kacher is the simple one, which so far works better that what others have shown using the controlable kacher.
My kacher is also tuned to it's best output, by adding or removing turns, and then using a current transformer, as also mentioned before, and also shown in my last video on this project, to tune the Kacher's output frequency with, for best match to the induction circuits. Allowing me to light 600w worth of bulbs, on just 18v input, while showing an increase in light when the Kacher is also turned on. That is as far as I've gotten with all this, and I am waiting for you guys to show me how well your controlable kachers work, and what you can actually do with it. And IF it looks promising, I'll build one up as well. So far, the controlable Kacher that have been shown, have not looked too promising, up to now. But, that may all be a matter of tuning. As my Kacher by itself can light your suggested 40w test bulb to full brightness, (just by itself), when the rest of the induction circuits are turned OFF.
This is not a pissing contest, just showing what I've done...and to what point I've gotten to.
NickZ
Nickz,
I read your reply, the only question is ;are you contented with what you have?
If no, what are you doing about it?
Are you gonna wait for someone to make the difference only to have you to contend with as to how true.
My humble opinion.
Maxolous
Nickz,
What am trying to say is, it is your inductor's inductance and your set PP frequency that determines your cap.
Maxolous
Max: Your previous reply is NOT very humble.
As mentioned, I follow the schematic and replicate what is shown to work.
If an honest try at replication does not work, I keep trying to figure out what to do about it.
Remember I have an intact fully built system with a feed back circuit and all.
Are you content with what you built, or is it what apecore calls a deco art piece?
My caps used are what is shown on the schematic, and are installed on my induction circuit, and also on the grenade output coil, as mentioned.
I do further tune to best resonance, as well.
I have been trying to help you...even while you insult me, with "you are completlly wrong", and if I am "contented with what I have, and what am I going to do about it"?
And also, that people "will have you to contend with".
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.05.30, 15:49:31
I hate to kick the bee hive 8) but have you found out how to produce standing waves in the kacher ?
AG. No, waiting for you to show us just how to do that, and how well it worked for you, first.
Cause, am not looking for standing waves.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.05.30, 20:30:03
i posted copy of Don smith how it works a couple of times already other than forcing you to listen to his libary of vids what can i do if you all ignor it >:-) ;) its don smith 2003 the one where he talks over the phone.
Hi AG. I searched for your post on Don Smith but couldn't find anything. Would you mind pointing me to it?
Guys,
could you please adhere to the normal practice of answering to a post with a new post, not by "adding" comments in the first poster post.
Also do not include your own text in the quote box when adding text or answering to a quoted text.
It makes it all very confusing to follow.
Thanks, Itsu
Thanks, Itsu.
I agree, and will do.
I have also been trying to focus on this device, but, some members would rather make distracting off topic suggestion and insults, instead.
NickZ
I looked at my Grenade (with Inductor and antenna) using several methods / equipment to determine its resonance frequencies / harmonics.
Here i present the result using Spectrum Analyzers
I have the Inductor and Antenna around the Grenade left alone with both leads open.
I "excite" the Grenade with a coupling coil (4 turns) attached to my FG set for square wave, and measure the resulting signals using the SA probe ground lead on one of the Grenade leads and the SA probe tip connected to the insulation of the other end thus avoiding to "load" the Grenade too much with the 50 Ohm impedance of the SA, see diagram.
Results can be seen in the attached pictures, first the MDO3054 SA results, then the Rigol DSA 815 results.
The strongest response was with the FG set to 1.87MHz (1/4 wave resonance), and the generated harmonics shown are:
1.87MHz (base resonance)
5.6MHz (3rd Harmonic)
9.33MHz (5th Harmonic)
13.1MHz (7th Harmonic)
16.8MHz (9th Harmonic, strongest)
20.5MHz (11th Harmonic)
24.3MHz (13th Harmonic)
etc.
Itsu
itsu:
Ok, thanks for the info. Can you explain as you see it, just what does that tell you?
Seams like the numbers don't really match up to what Stalker mentioned.
And that makes me think that there may also be something wrong with the previous build information and device instructions, as well.
Thanks again itsu.
NickZ
Nick,
well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.
If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.
Itsu
Itsu,
Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI
Maxolous
Itsu,
If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz. Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz
Maxolous.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.01, 13:48:44
Nick,
well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.
If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.
Itsu
The issue is 15.6 MHz I still think is a typographical error or translation error. All manners of harmonics are there and you're not going to use them.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.01, 13:48:44
Nick,
well you mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104865#msg104865 that: "Stalker mentions Grenade frequency of 15.6Mhz", so perhaps he was referring to a harmonic like my strongest 9th harmonic at 16.8MHz which does exist in the Grenade.
If this is important i do not know yet, but for now It's nice to know the grenade is generating HF over a broad spectrum.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
Nice to see those figures, is it possible to do another scan in DUT mode?
Inclusive ground connected.
Just to see what changes.
Grt, Ape
As I had mentioned previously, my grenade's best output frequency is around 18.5KHz. That is with the complete system grounded,
Including the kacher circuit. That is the best running frequency for my 37.5m grenade, and 18.75m inductor. Tuning for best gain.
I understand that more than a small deviation of 300KHz is enough for it not to sync. And mine does sync, but still needs something.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.01, 13:52:21
Itsu,
Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI
Maxolous
Max,
i think so, some years ago, i will see if Vasik had translated this video then.
Not sure now if he (Stalker) is tuning for peaks or dips in this video.
QuoteItsu,
If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz. Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz
Maxolous.
Max,
i will give it a try.
Itsu
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.01, 14:44:24
Hi Itsu,
Nice to see those figures, is it possible to do another scan in DUT mode?
Inclusive ground connected.
Just to see what changes.
Grt, Ape
Hi Ape,
not sure what you mean with "
scan in DUT mode?"
But i understand you want me to look at those harmonics again, but now with a ground wire connected.
But remember that one side of the Grenade was already grounded by the Spectrum Analyzer so i don't think it will make any difference.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.01, 20:47:01
Hi Ape,
not sure what you mean with "scan in DUT mode?"
But i understand you want me to look at those harmonics again, but now with a ground wire connected.
But remember that one side of the Grenade was already grounded by the Spectrum Analyzer so i don't think it will make any difference.
Itsu
I did understand you did a measurement in DUT... the grenade connected as it schould be?
I saw difference in grenade stand alone results and conected as built
Hi Ape,
with DUT i mean "Device Under Test" in this case the Grenade.
Because in some publications they call the device / component being tested this way (DUT) like here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104868#msg104868.
Anyway, yes, there will be a difference in measurement results with the Grenade (DUT) as stand alone like i have now and when in the complete circuit.
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.01, 14:36:31
Itsu,
If you go to your sub-harmonic, maybe You're using divide by 50 or divide by 100.
If divide by 100 , then you will have 18.7 khz. Choose range of 18---19khz with a square wave signal. As you sweep check where your 3rd harmonic is at maximum. It could be at sub-harmonic18.5khz or same 18.7khz
Maxolous.
Itsu
My little correction here; "divide by 10 will be 187khz.
Maybe you will need to sweep between 180khz ---190khz , that's what I meant to say please.
Maxolous
Max,
concerning your post #73 where you wrote:
QuoteItsu,
Have you tried this method of Sergey stalker.
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI
Maxolous
i have found out that i indeed tried that as can be seen here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90914#msg90914.
The attached PDF (pp.pdf) there from Vasik contains a short translation too, so i will revisit that part / pdf once again.
By the way that thread contains a wealth of information especially due to the (translation) work of Vasik041.
Concerning your above post about "divide by 10 will be 187khz", i tried that too using my SA and the earlier used measurement setup:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104955#msg104955.
At 187Khz square wave carrier frequency we see these harmonics:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47923;image)
So the carrier frequency of 187kHz shows as a low amplitude peak with increasing amplitudes (odd) harmonics peaking at the 9th harmonic at 1.693MHz, so the 10th (even) harmonic does not exist.
EDITED the 1.69MHZ peak to be the 9th harmonic, not the 11th.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.02, 20:25:25
Max,
concerning your post #73 where you wrote:
i have found out that i indeed tried that as can be seen here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90914#msg90914.
The attached PDF (pp.pdf) there from Vasik contains a short translation too, so i will revisit that part / pdf once again.
By the way that thread contains a wealth of information especially due to the (translation) work of Vasik041.
Concerning your above post about "divide by 10 will be 187khz", i tried that too using my SA and the earlier used measurement setup:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104955#msg104955.
At 187Khz square wave carrier frequency we see these harmonics:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47923;image)
So the carrier frequency of 187kHz shows as a low amplitude peak with increasing amplitudes (odd) harmonics peaking at the 11th harmonic at 1.693MHz, so the 10th (even) harmonic does not exist.
Itsu
Nice work Itsu.
Itsu,
The 1.693 MHZ might be best for you
Maxolous
Itsu
The only way to find the Fr of these coils is like the attached, IMO.
Regards
Mike
May I ask : why so many coil layers ? Was it explained ?
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.03, 10:58:16
Itsu,
The 1.693 MHZ might be best for you
Maxolous
Max,
well that depends, as i still think the 1/4 wave resonance of this coil is at 1.879MHz and the above harmonics only shows odd harmonics due to me using a symmetrical (50% duty cycle) waveform.
This changes if i reduce the duty cycle from 50% to 36% (something stalker promoted too by setting the push-pull duty cycle to 33% if i recall correctly).
Then still with my 187kHz carrier frequency, the SA shows both odd and even harmonics, including the 10th harmonics at 1.88MHz (had to reduce the max. frequency to 2.5MHz), see:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47936;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.06.03, 16:28:26
Itsu
The only way to find the Fr of these coils is like the attached, IMO.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
if i do that, i get the following screenshot (i reduced the sweeping range to 10MHz (from your 50) as we primarily want to know this lower frequency range only):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47940;image)
So each horizontal division is 1MHz (starting from 1kHz) so we see a big resonance peak at 1.8MHz and going left a smaller peak around 600kHz so rather similar with what we have seen using the VNA and SA (1/4 Wave resonance at 1.879MHz)
Using a 10s sweep.
Itsu
Well that confirms the Fr. Does that coil normally have a ground running through the centre? If so then it will form a multi wave at that frequency, like a vibrator.
Regards
Mike
Mike,
no, the hot end is running through its center.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.04, 08:36:33
Mike,
no, the hot end is running through its center.
Itsu
Interesting, and it was like that when you did that sweep? That must be why it is what I call "fuzzy" pulses.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.06.04, 08:50:44
Interesting, and it was like that when you did that sweep? That must be why it is what I call "fuzy" pulses.
Regards
Mike
Yes, see this picture of my Grenade: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104788#msg104788
The thick left part is the hot end, and the both leads come out on the right side.
The "fuzzy" pulses i think are more due to the low amplitude (due to the 10Meg series resistor).
Itsu
Quote from: forest on 2023.06.03, 18:28:10
May I ask : why so many coil layers ? Was it explained ?
Hi Forest,
i don't know, it was like that from the beginning, some say to get a low inductance, some say to get multiple standing waves or resonance peaks, but its anyones guess i think.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.04, 11:00:59
The "fuzzy" pulses i think are more due to the low amplitude (due to the 10Meg series resistor).
Itsu
Thanks, Itsu
I think it is multi-pulse.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.04, 11:00:59
Yes, see this picture of my Grenade: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104788#msg104788
The thick left part is the hot end, and the both leads come out on the right side.
The "fuzzy" pulses i think are more due to the low amplitude (due to the 10Meg series resistor).
Itsu
Itsu,
Do you need a 10meg resistor to do that? A 20k ¼watt is good enough.
Maxolous
Same method for finding Tesla pry resonance.
But here you use a 6.8k ¼watt
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.04, 18:40:11
Itsu,
Do you need a 10meg resistor to do that? A 20k ¼watt is good enough.
Maxolous
Max,
well the 10Meg series resistor was what centraflow suggested in his post (see that diagram) here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104985#msg104985
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.04, 20:33:27
Max,
well the 10Meg series resistor was what centraflow suggested in his post (see that diagram) here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104985#msg104985
Itsu
Yes you need it to remove the square wave saturating the scope signal.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.06, 10:32:13
So as a matter of interest what is it your expecting to see on your scope when no one appears to know what to expect to see
or Perhaps your in the know and can show your block diagram, or perhaps or are we wondering up another unknown 10 years
of fun and games, good ainit ?
Sil
Reply here https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4201.msg105015;topicseen#msg105015
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.01, 20:39:18
Max,
i think so, some years ago, i will see if Vasik had translated this video then.
Not sure now if he (Stalker) is tuning for peaks or dips in this video.
Max,
i will give it a try.
Itsu
Itsu,
Why I sent you the video of the method used by Сергей сталкер is for you to know that it is the frequency at which the current is maximum you should be looking for. Did you notice that the grenade terminals were closed and having a current sensor through it.
MHO
Maxolous.
Max,
i tried that method (still working on it), and yes, i noticed the Grenade terminals are closed (shorted).
The transcription from Vasik (pp.pdf) mentions why Stalker does this as it says:
1. short coil and use current sensor (coil will be in ½ wave mode)
So Stalker says that by shorting the Grenade it will be forced into half wave resonance.
I tried that methode and used my current probe to look for current peaks within my Grenade.
The results were that i have a first small peak at 1.341MHz (range 1.191 - 1.631MHz) and a second bigger peak at 5.691MHz (range 5.521 - 5.791MHz).
It also showed the increasing current on the 1st peak when touching with my hand and a decreasing current in the 2nd peak when touching.
The next steps (9 and on) in the PP.pdf are not so obvious as the FFT (or SA) does not show clear peaks when using sub-harmonics in the 119 - 163kHz range, so i am looking into that now.
But my current peaks are nowhere near (or double) the quarter wave resonance peak (1.879MHz) i found earlier using several methodes.
I would expect the Grenade when in half wave resonance to show double the freqeuncy (so 3.758MHz) as when in quarter wave resonance (1.879MHz), but it does not.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.06, 20:24:20
Max,
i tried that method (still working on it), and yes, i noticed the Grenade terminals are closed (shorted).
The transcription from Vasik (pp.pdf) mentions why Stalker does this as it says:
1. short coil and use current sensor (coil will be in ½ wave mode)
So Stalker says that by shorting the Grenade it will be forced into half wave resonance.
I tried that methode and used my current probe to look for current peaks within my Grenade.
The results were that i have a first small peak at 1.341MHz (range 1.191 - 1.631MHz) and a second bigger peak at 5.691MHz (range 5.521 - 5.791MHz).
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
What you do find is 3 x 1.86 and 2/3 x 1.86.
How can we explain that?
Grt,
Ape
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.06, 22:48:32
Hi Itsu,
What you do find is 3 x 1.86 and 2/3 x 1.86.
How can we explain that?
Grt,
Ape
Hi Ape,
it looks that way yes, but if you look hard enough there will always be some relations to match the figures.
The 3x and 2/3 you mention are not making sense if what Stalker mentions (short the coil is forcing it into half-wave resonance) is right.
The picture below shows the voltage and current distribution of a quarter wave (B) and half-wave (C) on a coil, so this tells be that there should be a 1:2 relation of the resonance points.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.06, 20:24:20
Max,
i tried that method (still working on it), and yes, i noticed the Grenade terminals are closed (shorted).
The transcription from Vasik (pp.pdf) mentions why Stalker does this as it says:
1. short coil and use current sensor (coil will be in ½ wave mode)
So Stalker says that by shorting the Grenade it will be forced into half wave resonance.
Itsu,
To be candid I just heard that Stalker said that by closing the terminals of grenade coil, it will be in ½wave mode .In your case your are looking for a frequency of res. Which doubles your previous resonance. I don't think that is possible.
Now looking at his, he only got 0.91MHZ. that I believe is a far cry from his ¼ wave res. howbeit ½wave res.
I think there are more to these.
Quote from: Itsu
link=topic=4471.msg105028#msg105028 date=1686083060
I tried that methode and used my current probe to look for current peaks within my Grenade.
The results were that i have a first small peak at 1.341MHz (range 1.191 - 1.631MHz) and a second bigger peak at 5.691MHz (range 5.521 - 5.791MHz).
It also showed the increasing current on the 1st peak when touching with my hand and a decreasing current in the 2nd peak when touching.
That's correct if both responded in that manners when touched with your hand.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.06, 20:24:20
The next steps (9 and on) in the PP.pdf are not so obvious as the FFT (or SA) does not show clear peaks when using sub-harmonics in the 119 - 163kHz range, so i am looking into that now.
IMHO, why not use wound current sensor as in video.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.06, 20:24:20
But my current peaks are nowhere near (or double) the quarter wave resonance peak (1.879MHz) i found earlier using several methodes.
I would expect the Grenade when in half wave resonance to show double the freqeuncy (so 3.758MHz) as when in quarter wave resonance (1.879MHz), but it does not.
Itsu
Even his could not get to ¼wave res. Talk less of ½wave res.
Since 5.691MHZ is your peak of 3rd res. I think you get a diy current sensor and sweep b/w your 119KHZ and 163KHZ while doing that, you might hit. Frequency where 5.6MHZ is outstanding amongst others.
Maxolous
Itsu:
Are you using some kind of ground line connected to the grenade, or not. If so, how long and what type.
Perhaps the grenade does not respond the same as a regular wound coil.
Remember that Stalker built up 25 different grenades, not just one. To get one that worked... If true.
Can you place a link to the video where Stalker is showing similar tests as you are doing, please.
NickZ
Nick,
in my post #83 i pointed out where you can find that link (plus transcription) to the video from Stalker which i am following now.
In the pp.pdf there is the link to the same video Max also pointed to.
So open that pp.pdf and follow it.
No, i do not use any ground wire attached to my Grenade at my present measurements, nor does Stalker.
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.07, 12:44:08
Itsu,
To be candid I just heard that Stalker said that by closing the terminals of grenade coil, it will be in ½wave mode .In your case your are looking for a frequency of res. Which doubles your previous resonance. I don't think that is possible.
Now looking at his, he only got 0.91MHZ. that I believe is a far cry from his ¼ wave res. howbeit ½wave res.
I think there are more to these.
So what do you think his ¼ wave res. or ½wave res. is?
QuoteIMHO, why not use wound current sensor as in video.
I can do that, but my current probe does the same thing at more accurate levels, but i will retest using such a current transformer.
QuoteSince 5.691MHZ is your peak of 3rd res. I think you get a diy current sensor and sweep b/w your 119KHZ and 163KHZ while doing that, you might hit. Frequency where 5.6MHZ is outstanding amongst others.
If 5.691MHZ is my peak of 3rd res., why does the base peak (1.879MHz) does not show up in the current sweep?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.07, 15:59:21
So what do you think his ¼ wave res. or ½wave res. is?
Itsu,
From my assessment, the shortest length of wire that we use is 37.5 mtrs . This naturally res at 2.0MHZ. I want to believe he used the length above. If he his getting .91MHZ @ ½wave res. the wire must have been too long which is not possible.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.07, 15:59:21
I can do that, but my current probe does the same thing at more accurate levels, but i will retest using such a current transformer.
Okay, I rely on CT anyhow.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.07, 15:59:21
If 5.691MHZ is my peak of 3rd res., why does the base peak (1.879MHz) does not show up in the current sweep?
Itsu
It's there, maybe not toopronounced. Sweep slowly by adjusting your SG digit to tenths. As you slowly sweep, it will sprout may not too much.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.07, 12:44:31
Itsu:
Are you using some kind of ground line connected to the grenade, or not. If so, how long and what type.
Perhaps the grenade does not respond the same as a regular wound coil.
Remember that Stalker built up 25 different grenades, not just one. To get one that worked... If true.
Can you place a link to the video where Stalker is showing similar tests as you are doing, please.
NickZ
Nickz
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI
Itsu:
Ok thanks, no earth ground...
Seams like what Stalkers says about 1/2 wave while shorting the grenade output is not what he is showing. Nor do any of the frequencies make much sense to me. Brings more questions, than answers.
T-1000 sent me an email mentioning the use of the CT to test for the best interaction between the kacher and grenade circuit.
Seams that Ruslan also mentiones the use of the CT, as well. But, I have not used it for tuning the induction circuits to highest current output, as well. Should work for that, also, though.
My question: what are the actual inductor, grenade, and Kacher frequencies supposed to be, while self running? Never shown...
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.06, 20:24:20
Max,
It also showed the increasing current on the 1st peak when touching with my hand and a decreasing current in the 2nd peak when touching.
Itsu
Still considering the above concern, I don't think it's critical whether the inductor gives the increase or the grenade side. I realized it's a function of how you put your current probe or CT. Simply put, if you reversed your scope probe at the terminals of CT, you would get increase the other way round
I just want to point that out quickly.
Maxolous
I redid my tests (PP.PDF) using a current transformer (CT) but the results are similar as with my current probe although i now have more signal (30 turns on the CT (black ferrite core)) to work with.
There is now another peak close before the first i had at 1.1MHz, but still the biggest peak is at 1.334MHz, followed by a lesser peak at 5.560MHz.
The 1.334MHz peak (biggest) shows an INCREASE in current amplitude when touching the Grenade hot end and the lesser 5.560Mhz peak shows a DECREASE in current amplitude when touching the Grenade hot end, just like Stalker showed (thus WITHOUT changing the CT probe leads).
With the increased signal from the CT i can now make out more signals on the FFT so i would be able to continue from step 9.
Concerning Nick his question: i don't know and i wonder if there is one good answer.
Itsu
Let nobody be distracted or held back by my focus on the Grenade.
Nick has opened this thread for everyone working on these Akula, Ruslan and Stalker devices as the title of this thread mentions.
Please post your progress or problems you have encountered on these devices so we as a group can discuss them and find solutions.
So Geofusion, Apecore, Maxolous, Justawatt, Jeg, Vasik41, L0stf0x to name a few and all others interested in these devices, feel free to join and contribute.
Itsu
As i mentioned in my for-last post, with the CT i now can get some good signals using the FFT function on the scope, so i could continue from step 9 in the PP.pdf.
I found my peaks (in the 125 to 147kHz range) to be interesting be 142.57kHz, 135.62kHz and 129.3kHz (steps 10 to 16).
The 142.62kHz also gives a peak on 1MHz (step 19), so choosing that one.
With this frequency (142.62kHz), i see some fish like signals on 133.334kHz, 1.34Mhz and 5.562.5Mhz, and this last one also when in sine wave (steps 21 / 22), see screenshot:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47952;image)
The modulation frequency of this fish like signal seems to be 4.472Hz (so much lower than Stalker his 32.47Hz), step 24.
So here i stopped so i did not test to see if with 4.4Hz on the push-pull my Grenade gets hot like mentioned in step 24.
Also i still have my doubts if these fish like modulated signals i see are no artifacts created by the scope at these ultra slow time base settings
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
I think contributing together would make sense only when we do an overal review in where we stand with this setup.
Neither Ruslan, Stalker, Dally or some other the setups have lots in common. So a review can be done regarding the overall mode of operation.... ( this Mode of Operation schould be defined first, even when its not clear we must set a idea and unless proven wrong we got to hold to it)
When we all agree on how we think this setup operates we have to define the conditions.
These conditions need to be challenged in a sort of testplan.
Executing this in a controlled matter and adjusting based on test results will not only lead us to our goal but also prevent us from doing the same ineffective steps over again.
Personally looking back I did a replication of the Ruslan setup, as a lot of us I didn't came further glowing a vew bulbs like a buck booster setup. Something is missing.
My take on how this setup as it is presented to us on youtube operates is;
We create a LF signal in the grenade and by injecting a HF signal the mixer (grenade) it gets mixed and feeds the load.
We can discuss a lot about what is seen on schematics and is it really as build as shown on youtube?
I doubt it... but this discussion is another one but unfortunately needs to be challenged also going forward.
For who is interested in my view as I have several red flags in Ruslans YT presentation as what is not consistent.
So whats missing or in other words which step inside the system is not working properly?
To start with a topic...
As I understand the charging effect of the grenade by the kacher isn't succesfull, we only see a induction result when kacher and grenade have same resonance frequency.
So can we charge the grenade with AC from a regular tesla coil setup? Or do we need unipolair pulses... which is often stated by Ruslan.
But how does he manage to produce unipolair pulses with a TC?
This part of the process is in my opinion not enough highligthed and would in my opinion be the first step to accomplish.
Grt,
Ape
Ape, Hi.
Good to see you opening up a bit. You asked, " What is missing.??? Good question. Let's see ...
As I had mentioned, the Kachers job is not to "charge", but to interrupt the magnetic field, at just the right frequency. That's how I see it, so far. And is what I am looking for in these replication efforts. Not to just to add or "charge" up, vibrate electrons loose, nor any of that, but to interrupt the magnetic flow instead. But, we may not agree on any of this, since no one has shown anything that actually works, up to now. However, the above comment is how I see, and understand that it deals with BEMF to excite the surrounding ambient, and thus extract or harvest any usefully extra energy therefrom. Of course, I did not just make this all up, but, its logic is based on Tesla's Ideas, on the interuptor circuits, well as others. These are the big differences that need to be tested, and confirmed. About what is missing. So first trying to understand and verify these theories, and understand it's workings. Which are Not just working, by normal "induction", as we know it.
NickZ
Hi Nick,
I think your explanation is a good start in approaching it.... giving it a name,..
Is " charging by interrupting magnetic field" were we come together?
At the end we both want the same..... current trough load.
But lets hold this one and let the others say something too.... at the end we agree on the first definition.
Next step how to qualify in order to test and to validate.
Grt,
Ape
I doubt that we can interupt a magnetic field.
Magnetic fields are able to penetrate anything, and it is not possible to shield off a magnetic field, it only can be guided away through (mu)metal etc. or like in transformers and toroids.
Also the field (shape / direction) can be manipulated like through using another (opposing) magnetic field see picture below.
What can be interrupted is the current that creates this magnetic field, so perhaps we need to concentrate on doing that.
Itsu
I think you are right about the nature of magnetic field. Am I correct by saying magnetic fields can guide the electrons?
If so this makes it even more complexer.
Its for me still unclear what the purpose is of interrupting the kacher signal.
Let me add some suggestions to make it more specific
1-Disrupting current in the inductor loop, to guide a current from a to b?
2-Or disrupting as it are impulses with high dV/dt create a electrostatic disruption, which also can contribute to a higher magnetic field if I'm correct.
3- Are there other options left?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.09, 19:23:20
What can be interrupted is the current that creates this magnetic field, so perhaps we need to concentrate on doing that.
Itsu
Yes, I think we need to examine what this does or is it at least to see what effects it creates.
First thing what comes to my mind is that ... which current?
Inductorloop or grenade?
I guess we start with inductorloop due to the fact it sits between kacher signal and grenade.
Current in inductorloop is relatively high, so what is the impact done by the kacher signap.
And if doing a test what do we expect to see?
Concerning the fish like signal Stalker showed in his pp.pdf video and which i was able to replicate (see few posts above), i was wondering if this is not some kind of artifact created by the scope due to the ultra low time base setting used.
It turns out it is as i just found out.
I omitted the Grenade and CT used and hooked the FG (5.562.5Mhz sine wave 10Vpp) directly to the scope probe, and with the same low time base setting (40ms/div.) i had no problem to get the same fish like (100% modulated AM) signal at the same 4.4Hz repetition frequency (with higher amplitude).
So to me this means that this fish like signal is NOT something we should be looking for when looking for something special as it is not.
This also makes me wonder why someone like Stalker is pointing out this in some of his video's and if he is aware that this is some artifact created by his scope.
Itsu
Itsu:
Great deductions. So to assume that interrupting the current in the magnetic field is therefore causing the mentioned effect of interrupting the magnetic field, boils down to the same BEMF effect. Which needs to be harvested from.
So, to test this idea what needs to be done?
I remember Ruslan saying something about the, "fish forms" you don't need them. Use the scope the see the frequency", etc, forget the fish.
NickZ
Hi Ape,
QuoteAm I correct by saying magnetic fields can guide the electrons?
Both an electric and magnetic field can deflect (guide) electrons as been done in a CRT, see this wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode-ray_tube
I am not sure if this is happening inside the Grenade / Inductor / Antenna.
QuoteIts for me still unclear what the purpose is of interrupting the kacher signal.
I think interrupting the Kacher is causing a lower average input into the Kacher and focussing the Kacher signal into a burst like signal as that seems all what is needed.
Quote1-Disrupting current in the inductor loop, to guide a current from a to b?
2-Or disrupting as it are impulses with high dV/dt create a electrostatic disruption, which also can contribute to a higher magnetic field if I'm correct.
3- Are there other options left?
Why we need a burst like Kacher signal or, as also has been showed, a nanopulse signal is still open for debate i think.
My understanding initially was that it might force the highly reactive current inside the Inductor (see it as a Primary for the Grenade) somehow to become real current, w.o.w, in phase with the Inductor voltage.
QuoteFirst thing what comes to my mind is that ... which current?
Inductorloop or grenade?
I guess we start with inductorloop due to the fact it sits between kacher signal and grenade.
Current in inductorloop is relatively high, so what is the impact done by the kacher signap.
And if doing a test what do we expect to see?
My guess is also the Inductor current as the Antenna has the most influence on it.
How to test this is another matter.
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.10, 00:50:26
Itsu:
Great deductions. So to assume that interrupting the current in the magnetic field is therefore causing the mentioned effect of interrupting the magnetic field, boils down to the same BEMF effect. Which needs to be harvested from.
So, to test this idea what needs to be done?
I remember Ruslan saying something about the, "fish forms" you don't need them. Use the scope the see the frequency", etc, forget the fish.
NickZ
Nick,
up till now i have not seen that the BEMF (created by a collapsing magnetic field) can have more energy in it than what was initially needed to create that magnetic field.
So there is nothing to "harvest" IMO.
I have done some tests with that (Melnichenco thread here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4312.0 ), which showed that COP stayed below 1, but who knows as Melnichenco's setup is different.
Good to know that Ruslan has said this about the "fish forms":
you don't need them. Use the scope the see the frequency", etc, forget the fish.Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.10, 08:51:32
I think interrupting the Kacher is causing a lower average input into the Kacher and focussing the Kacher signal into a burst like signal as that seems all what is needed.
Why we need a burst like Kacher signal or, as also has been showed, a nanopulse signal is still open for debate i think.
My understanding initially was that it might force the highly reactive current inside the Inductor (see it as a Primary for the Grenade) somehow to become real current, w.o.w, in phase with the Inductor voltage.
I agree, the input of the kacher to grenade is much less when kacher is interupted.
Also I think nano pulsing is a good option as it easier to adjust.
Lets not forget, Ruslan showed a nice kacher setup but never showed ( in my opinion) a video where the signal is showed on a working device.
I also suspect that things are different connected as assumed.
I am saying this because we need to basically follow the fundamentals which bring us succes and not the visuals which are presented on YT.
I think Itsu you made a good proposition in stating to change the reactive current by interrupting/ impulsing, here in the inductorloop we have hidden kWatts.
I' d like to propose with this subject first.
If you all agree I'd like to mention first what different methods we have to use.
Ape
Ps, AG,.. I saw your posting but its hard to understand what you have done and with what. Could you explain again by pointing out what setup and what test is done🤔
In my opinion we gave the following options to disrupt the reactive current in the inductor:
1- impulsing with nano pulser
2- disrupting by kacher
3- impulsing with emf from external coil
4-??
So what are the parameters to be adjustable?
1- voltage impuls/ interupt
2- duration impuls/ interupt
3- interval impuls/ interupt
4- amount of impulses/ interupts in one cycle
Its reasonable to assume that item 3 is directly corrolated to the inductorloop frequency.
So we need synchronisation and a way to delay the impuls in the inductor wave cycle.
Personally I have a CT in the inductorloop connected to a comperator which results in a square wave equal to the inductor frequency
Within this squarewave I can delay the impuls.
I have a impuls circuit which I believe is designed by Nelsonrocha and shown on youtube by Master ivo.
It has the abillity to generate half wave bemf pulses from a coil, by adjusting the number of windings you can alter the puls duration. Using positive or negative voltage the impuls is either negative or positive.
Ape
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.10, 11:26:38
In my opinion we gave the following options to disrupt the reactive current in the inductor:
1- impulsing with nano pulser
2- disrupting by kacher
3- impulsing with emf from external coil
4-??
No.4 should be Amplification brought about by resonance to create overunity.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.10, 11:26:38
So what are the parameters to be adjustable?
1- voltage impuls/ interupt
2- duration impuls/ interupt
3- interval impuls/ interupt
4- amount of impulses/ interupts in one cycle
Its reasonable to assume that item 3 is directly corrolated to the inductorloop frequency.
So we need synchronisation and a way to delay the impuls in the inductor wave cycle.
Personally I have a CT in the inductorloop connected to a comperator which results in a square wave equal to the inductor frequency
Within this squarewave I can delay the impuls.
I have a impuls circuit which I believe is designed by Nelsonrocha and shown on youtube by Master ivo.
It has the abillity to generate half wave bemf pulses from a coil, by adjusting the number of windings you can alter the puls duration. Using positive or negative voltage the impuls is either negative or positive.
Ape
Stalker showed how Push-pull signal can be accurately delayed by putting a NAND gate cct b/w TL494 and your MOSFET driver.
Maxolous
Hi Max,
why do you think that "Amplification" and "Resonance" are linked together?
When you look at this wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance about resonance there you will not find any reference to amplification.
In the "Overview" part it nicely mentions that there are "some losses from cycle to cycle, called damping", so instead of amplification, there is always some dampening.
In the "Q factor" part it also mentions that: "A high value for Q indicates a lower rate of energy loss relative to the stored energy, i.e., the system is lightly damped".
Itsu
Itsu:
Your last comment makes little sense to me .
As the point of obtaining resonance is to improve the output, and override or minimise the dampening loses. Or else why would resonance frequency match be used if it has no affect on the output. Also, they are talking about normal closed circuit operations. Not open circuit devices. Such as the self runners, that we are interested in reproducing.
NickZ
Max,
Do you mean standingwave resonance and have the grenade on one side open?
Ape
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.10, 13:43:39
Hi Max,
why do you think that "Amplification" and "Resonance" are linked together?
When you look at this wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance about resonance there you will not find any reference to amplification.
In the "Overview" part it nicely mentions that there are "some losses from cycle to cycle, called damping", so instead of amplification, there is always some dampening.
In the "Q factor" part it also mentions that: "A high value for Q indicates a lower rate of energy loss relative to the stored energy, i.e., the system is lightly damped".
Itsu
Excellent post, Itsu.
Resonance directly will never produce OU, but you can use LCR circuits to produce effects that can AID in possible OU.
If you have a simple boost circuit of a charge choke, mosfet, diode, and capacitor, as long as you have a constant DC input you will have a constant DC output. Now where does resonance come into this?
If you remove the diode and replace it with a coil you will have a resonant circuit, the output will be a sine wave at the LC resonance. But there is still no OU!!
So we make the resonant circuit into a resonating vibrator (loads and loads of delays). So we now have loads and loads of sine waves. But there still is no OU.
All these waves have a high amplitude, they are all resonant, and because the mosfet switch is driven by a square wave, the LC frequency of the waves will be increased by the multiplication of the drive frequency of the mosfet. But still no OU.
Now all these waves are sine waves, so we can place a diode on the output and collect the pulses in a capacitor. But this is still not OU.
The voltage you have collected in the capacitor is HV, and if you could discharge it rapidly you would have a high current. But still not OU.
I'm sure you are getting the idea.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.10, 14:11:53
Itsu:
Your last comment makes little sense to me .
As the point of obtaining resonance is to improve the output, and override or minimise the dampening loses. Or else why would resonance frequency match be used if it has no affect on the output. Also, they are talking about normal closed circuit operations. Not open circuit devices. Such as the self runners, that we are interested in reproducing.
NickZ8765
Nick,
Max said:
No.4 should be Amplification brought about by resonance to create overunity.He, by that statement, suggest IMO that you can create over unity by the amplification that resonance brings with it.
But as i tried to explain that in resonance there is no amplification happening, there is a peak in amplitude due to minimizing impedance (meaning minimizing (not override) losses).
Amplification IMO means increase in energy in a signal by adding extra energy which is not the case with resonance.
We need some things to be in resonance IMO to already get close to COP=1, and then add that extra thingy (whatever it is) to create over unity.
Itsu
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.06.10, 16:05:06
Excellent post, Itsu.
Resonance directly will never produce OU, but you can use LCR circuits to produce effects that can AID in possible OU.
If you have a simple boost circuit of a charge choke, mosfet, diode, and capacitor, as long as you have a constant DC input you will have a constant DC output. Now where does resonance come into this?
If you remove the diode and replace it with a coil you will have a resonant circuit, the output will be a sine wave at the LC resonance. But there is still no OU!!
So we make the resonant circuit into a resonating vibrator (loads and loads of delays). So we now have loads and loads of sine waves. But there still is no OU.
All these waves have a high amplitude, they are all resonant, and because the mosfet switch is driven by a square wave, the LC frequency of the waves will be increased by the multiplication of the drive frequency of the mosfet. But still no OU.
Now all these waves are sine waves, so we can place a diode on the output and collect the pulses in a capacitor. But this is still not OU.
The voltage you have collected in the capacitor is HV, and if you could discharge it rapidly you would have a high current. But still not OU.
I'm sure you are getting the idea.
Regards
Mike
Hi Mike,
thanks,
you describe the many ways one can manipulate voltage and current by getting it into resonance, changing it from AC to DC, transform it into HV and increase the current by shortening the discharge time, etc. but all these manipulations do not create over unity, i get the idea O0
Itsu
Yes, thanks Itsu.
But we are looking for the anomoly not conventional electronics understanding dealing with closed circuits and underunity.
I also don't understand the logic in interrupting the kacher to cause an effect. The kacher signal is not being "interrupted". It's the magnetic circuits current pulse, that are being affected, not the kacher pulse.
I think that we already know what we have not seen, such as over unity nor self running, yet that is what we are after.
The fact that we have not seen something, is not conclusive. As I am interested in what is behind self running, not just BEMF harvesting, for greater efficiency. But, for the cause of more out than in, in any device. And there has to be such a cause, for the shown effects.
NickZ
Nick,
what i am trying to do is to eliminate some concepts floating around which could block someone's mind like that a "fish like" signal in the Grenade is needed, or that resonance is some form of amplification leading to over unity.
If we agree on these things we can then focus on what is left over.
Itsu
Itsu:
Of course, I agree with those points.
Just trying to state that we are looking for the anomoly, as current electronics understanding will not provide the answer.
And that we all have been trying to ADD the HV to the induction circuits, to obtain a gain. And we already know and have seen that that approach has not worked. And so, I'm looking for the reason that we have all failed at this.
As there is much talk lately on the internet concerning BEMF, I felt that it's affects may be some of the things that can be the cause of OU. Along with it's dangerously high peaks, which are normally not used, and are therefore wasted, instead. As it's also a whole different way of seeing all this. Between the actual effects of the kacher circuit, and it's actual purpose between it and the magnetic induction circuits. Any ways, that's how I see things, so far.
NickZ
Roger that Nick,
it could be the mix of all these ordinary electronic concepts (BEMF, Resonance, HV pulsing, grounding, etc.) that creates something extraordinary.
Itsu
I measured the following inductances and capacitances of the 3 components like this:
Inductances (@ 10kHz):
Grenade 150uH
Inductor 65uH
Antenna 3.3uH
Capacitances:
Grenade - inductor 54pF
Grenade - Antenna 21pF
Inductor - Antenna 25pF
Often is mentioned that the Grenade and Inductor form the plates of a capacitor and that there is a build up of charge between them, but looking at these capacitances, the charge won't be very much.
According to this calculator https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/capacitor-energy we are talking (with 500V differences on the plates) of 27 nC (0.0000000000075 Ah) and a stored energy 0f 6.75uJ (0.000000001875 Wh)
So is this another fable we can put to rest?
Itsu
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.10, 14:45:27
Max,
Do you mean standingwave resonance and have the grenade on one side open?
Ape
Apecore,
In order to understand this phenomenal, " Tesla Technology" we must leave the realm of mainstream science.
Nature stored up in the universe infinite amount of Energy. The transmitter of this energy is Aether this you all know. It is now our job to find out how to appropriate the principles of harvesting this energy. I was very excited when I read again in PP.PDF that a closed grenade coil is in ½wavelength mode.
It might interest you to know that Aether is a ½wavelength standing wave or stationary wave. We all know by now that a standing wave is made up of two transverse waves travelling in opposite directions, they have magnetic field ,this description give them the property of a perfect carrier. Your Tesla coil always have a standing wave. Find out if you haven't already. When in imping on your grenade, it pulls it to a stand.
Think along this
Maxolous
Max:
It does interest me to know:
Who has determined that the unseen and un mesureable Aether, is a "1/2 wavelength standing wave"?
That does not mean that the Aether does not exist.
Maybe standing waves are as illusive and needed, as fish waves. Nor have I ever seen these standing waves on my scope coming from my device, nor from the kacher or Tesla coils. Have you? If so, perhaps you can show us these standing waves working on your device, as well as what they can actually do, as perfect carrier waves impinging on Your Grenade. And if not, don't worry about it, I've
seen Stalkers videos on it, but no actual proof, as yet.
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.10, 19:32:46
So is this another fable we can put to rest?
Itsu
Yes, in my opinion altough I understand taking frequency into the equasion it wil be more but not significant.
So stil standing is the idea of changing the current phase in the inductorloop.
In this configuration, only can be done by the signal from the antenna.
What my attention got is your relative high grenade inductance as it has approxemately same resonance frequency as mine. 33uH
Probably it is your wire insulation what gives a lower capacitance.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.10, 20:40:25
Max:
It does interest me to know:
Who has determined that the unseen and un mesureable Aether, is a "1/2 wavelength standing wave"?
That does not mean that the Aether does not exist.
Maybe standing waves are as illusive and needed, as fish waves. Nor have I ever seen these standing waves on my scope coming from my device, nor from the kacher or Tesla coils. Have you? If so, perhaps you can show us these standing waves working on your device, as well as what they can actually do, as perfect carrier waves impinging on Your Grenade. And if not, don't worry about it, I've
seen Stalkers videos on it, but no actual proof, as yet.
NickZ
NickZ
This might give you an insight.
https://youtu.be/DovunOxlY1k
Maxolous
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.10, 21:09:32
Yes, in my opinion altough I understand taking frequency into the equasion it wil be more but not significant.
So stil standing is the idea of changing the current phase in the inductorloop.
In this configuration, only can be done by the signal from the antenna.
What my attention got is your relative high grenade inductance as it has approxemately same resonance frequency as mine. 33uH
Probably it is your wire insulation what gives a lower capacitance.
Ape,
yes, it could be the capacitance between the used wire is different, but as mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333 i use the "version 2" of the Grenade wiring scheme.
This means that the layers are not forth and back, but in one direction only although some CW, some CCW.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.11, 09:06:58
Ape,
yes, it could be the capacitance between the used wire is different, but as mentioned here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333 i use the "version 2" of the Grenade wiring scheme.
This means that the layers are not forth and back, but in one direction only although some CW, some CCW.
Itsu
Itsu,
Well it seems to be impossible to replicate an exact grenade as defined by Ruslan, Stalker etc.
As there are to many parameters involved.
Attached my grenade winding order, as I mentioned quit different configured but almost same end result
What definitely can be the same is the direction of each layer related magnetic field.
This is also something to look into, using the right-hand rule I have a situation that all layer related fields are equal in direction.
Question is, is this important considering the direction of the inductor magnetic field?
Does it contribute to a eventually absorbing of the electrostatic field from the antenna?
In my opinion we are able to do different directions for inductor in case we want a uniform in one direction or create some bloch wall areas.
Btw, there is a typo in the attached picture... not 40meter but 37.5
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.10, 20:22:44
Apecore,
In order to understand this phenomenal, " Tesla Technology" we must leave the realm of mainstream science.
Nature stored up in the universe infinite amount of Energy. The transmitter of this energy is Aether this you all know. It is now our job to find out how to appropriate the principles of harvesting this energy. I was very excited when I read again in PP.PDF that a closed grenade coil is in ½wavelength mode.
It might interest you to know that Aether is a ½wavelength standing wave or stationary wave. We all know by now that a standing wave is made up of two transverse waves travelling in opposite directions, they have magnetic field ,this description give them the property of a perfect carrier. Your Tesla coil always have a standing wave. Find out if you haven't already. When in imping on your grenade, it pulls it to a stand.
Think along this
Maxolous
Max,
I really do apriciate all the educative stories really I do. But I'm not a high school guy.😁
But never the less it would be nice te also end with a conclusion regarding the asked question, or in fact at least a statement before you send it.
I'm not going to dig into al that.... I' m hands-on and probably other people like to do more research.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Grt,
Ape
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.11, 06:21:37
NickZ
This might give you an insight.
https://youtu.be/DovunOxlY1k
Maxolous
Max:
I am not saying that there is no such thing as standing waves, etc. I'm saying that I have never seen them as being something needed, for these types of devices. Therefore I asked you to confirm that, by showing how well they work on your device. Not on some old conventional video, that has no relation to free energy. I am trying to avoid guessing about this. Just like with fish waves, being what is needed.
NickZ
AG:
Please show just how or what we are "ignoring" and doing wrong. But, I will not go off on one of your tangents, again.
Guessing is for the birds... So, please stay with the topic at hand, or use your own thread for any unrelated rants
We are trying to figure out what is wrong, without further distraction.
NickZ
Ape:
How do you think that we should analyze the idea of BEMF, and it's relation to OU? Any ideas?
NickZ
BEMF is much stronger than just a small percentage of the input provided. That's why things blow...
As current lags behind voltage, this is why a longer lag time may provide for a higher output. Yes? No?
But, the idea is NOT to harvest this BEMF, but to use it to vibrate the surrounding ambient Aether, instead.
It is that additional surrounding Aether energy source, that is to be harvested from, instead. As I understand it.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.11, 14:36:22
Ape:
How do you think that we should analyze the idea of BEMF, and it's relation to OU? Any ideas?
NickZ
Nick,
As we stated if we can transform a portion of the inductorloop current into real grenade power we dont have to do a lot.
This is what the kacher should deliver.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.11, 12:08:38
Itsu,
Well it seems to be impossible to replicate an exact grenade as defined by Ruslan, Stalker etc.
As there are to many parameters involved.
Attached my grenade winding order, as I mentioned quit different configured but almost same end result
What definitely can be the same is the direction of each layer related magnetic field.
This is also something to look into, using the right-hand rule I have a situation that all layer related fields are equal in direction.
Question is, is this important considering the direction of the inductor magnetic field?
Does it contribute to a eventually absorbing of the electrostatic field from the antenna?
In my opinion we are able to do different directions for inductor in case we want a uniform in one direction or create some bloch wall areas.
Btw, there is a typo in the attached picture... not 40meter but 37.5
Ape,
yes, i have seen so many different Grenade layouts by now that it almost looks like a deliberate smokescreen being laid out.
Nobody now knows what the "real one" looks like IF there is such a "real one".
Interesting Grenade layout you have, i did not see that one before, so you have all layers the same way (CW) except for a part of the last outer layer which is CCW.
I am amazed that you only measure 32uH as there is only a very small part that opposes the rest.
At what frequency was that inductance measured?
Interesting questions you ask, but i am afraid i won't be able to answer those.
My understanding was to have a very low inductance due to the windings partially (50:50) oppose each other, ideally having a coil with no inductance.
Your Grenade is very close to that, but not due to opposing windings.
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.11, 15:22:44
BEMF is much stronger than just a small percentage of the input provided. That's why things blow...
As current lags behind voltage, this is why a longer lag time may provide for a higher output. Yes? No?
But, the idea is NOT to harvest this BEMF, but to use it to vibrate the surrounding ambient Aether, instead.
It is that additional surrounding Aether energy source, that is to be harvested from, instead. As I understand it.
NickZ
Nick,
things blow because the collapsing magnetic field from a coil which was "slowly" build up by say 50V @ 1A over 1 second is suddenly released in a very short (micro seconds) time after the voltage was switched off and with nowhere to go and thus can reach Kilo Volts.
It's like a balloon, you silently and slowly blow it up until it suddenly pops with a bang.
Current lags voltage in an inductive environment (look up "ELI the ICE man") and the other way around in a capacitive environment.
So not sure why you would say: "
this is why a longer lag time may provide for a higher output" i do not see the relation with BEMF here.
Ok about using the BEMF pulse (KV) to "
vibrate the surrounding ambient Aether" if something as the Aether really exists.
It's like a nanopulse also being used by Ruslan in one of his devices, so instead of using a nanopulse, use a BEMF pulse O0
Problem is that we need some serious HV switcher (MOSFET?) to withstand this KV pulse, but there are such 1.7KV / 4KV MOSFETs nowadays.
Not sure how to embed this into a Ruslan type of device.
Itsu
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.11, 18:54:42
Nick,
As we stated if we can transform a portion of the inductorloop current into real grenade power we dont have to do a lot.
This is what the kacher should deliver.
Ape, unfortunately, present science says it is not possible to directly transform reactive power into real power.
Asking ChatGPT confirms that:
Can reactive power be converted into active power? How?
Reactive power and active power are two components of electrical power that have different characteristics.
Reactive power represents the power consumed or generated by reactive elements in an electrical system, such as inductors and capacitors.
It does not perform any useful work but is necessary for the functioning of certain electrical devices.
On the other hand, active power represents the actual power that is consumed or generated by devices and performs useful work, such as producing mechanical energy or lighting.
In a purely theoretical sense, it is not possible to directly convert reactive power into active power because they serve different purposes in an electrical system.
However, it is possible to manage and optimize the power factor of a system to reduce the amount of reactive power and maximize the utilization of active power.
One common method to improve the power factor is by using power factor correction devices, such as capacitors.
These devices introduce reactive power of opposite sign to the system, compensating for the reactive power generated by inductive loads.
By reducing the reactive power in the system, the power factor is improved, and more active power can be utilized.
By improving the power factor, the overall efficiency of the system can be enhanced, reducing losses and optimizing the use of available active power.
This indirectly increases the effective utilization of active power while minimizing the amount of reactive power in the system.
So while reactive power cannot be directly converted into active power, managing and optimizing the power factor can help maximize the utilization of active power in an electrical system.Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.11, 19:31:59
Ape,
yes, i have seen so many different Grenade layouts by now that it almost looks like a deliberate smokescreen being laid out.
Nobody now knows what the "real one" looks like IF there is such a "real one".
Interesting Grenade layout you have, i did not see that one before, so you have all layers the same way (CW) except for a part of the last outer layer which is CCW.
I am amazed that you only measure 32uH as there is only a very small part that opposes the rest.
At what frequency was that inductance measured?
Interesting questions you ask, but i am afraid i won't be able to answer those.
My understanding was to have a very low inductance due to the windings partially (50:50) oppose each other, ideally having a coil with no inductance.
Your Grenade is very close to that, but not due to opposing windings.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
I' m not aware in how doing a inductance measurement at 10khz.
I'm using a Chinees board to plug in a coil or cap and it delivers a value.
Let me know how the 10khz method works.
My interpretation about the grenade config is that it has to absorb electrostatic energy from the antenna.
We need a field in the grenade to interact with antenna..... how this is being done we need to find out.
Inductor playes a part in this.I guess. How? We have to find out.
But in my opinion we need some excitement of standing wave in the grenade together with inductor field coöperation.
So thats why my journey starts with the magnetic field interpretation at 2Mhz
Men could argue that tbe 28turn coil could disrupt also something inside the grenade with its squarewave's.
But enough speculating..., hands-on.... we need a sort of test/ discovery plan.
Ape
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.11, 19:51:11
Ape, unfortunately, present science says it is not possible to directly transform reactive power into real power.
Asking ChatGPT confirms that:
Can reactive power be converted into active power? How?
Reactive power and active power are two components of electrical power that have different characteristics.
Reactive power represents the power consumed or generated by reactive elements in an electrical system, such as inductors and capacitors.
It does not perform any useful work but is necessary for the functioning of certain electrical devices.
On the other hand, active power represents the actual power that is consumed or generated by devices and performs useful work, such as producing mechanical energy or lighting.
In a purely theoretical sense, it is not possible to directly convert reactive power into active power because they serve different purposes in an electrical system.
However, it is possible to manage and optimize the power factor of a system to reduce the amount of reactive power and maximize the utilization of active power.
One common method to improve the power factor is by using power factor correction devices, such as capacitors.
These devices introduce reactive power of opposite sign to the system, compensating for the reactive power generated by inductive loads.
By reducing the reactive power in the system, the power factor is improved, and more active power can be utilized.
By improving the power factor, the overall efficiency of the system can be enhanced, reducing losses and optimizing the use of available active power.
This indirectly increases the effective utilization of active power while minimizing the amount of reactive power in the system.
So while reactive power cannot be directly converted into active power, managing and optimizing the power factor can help maximize the utilization of active power in an electrical system.
Itsu
Yes, thats AI
It repeats whats is reckonised as knowledge on the internet.
Lets take a transmissionline... f.i. 37.5m grenade.
We inject a 2Mhz signal
We leave the hot end open.
The 1/4 wave will perfectly bounce back.
Current wave lags 90°.
Imagine injecting a 2nd wave which will be in phase with the 1st current wave cycle?
What we get?
Of coarse if grenade is a transmissionline with open end whath is the output coil?
Inductorloop like Geofusion showed us?
I know this is thinking out of the box but it triggers me a lot.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.11, 12:08:38
Well it seems to be impossible to replicate an exact grenade as defined by Ruslan, Stalker etc.
As there are to many parameters involved.
Attached my grenade winding order, as I mentioned quit different configured but almost same end result
Apecore,
You mentioned that you wound your grenade coil in one direction and your attached pic depicts it. When you are winding clockwise as we know, if it is rising from your right as the wind is going from you, it's clockwise or right winding. If it is rising from left as it is going from you ,it is counterclockwise or left winding. Now, if you are in the second layer as it is coming back to you, it is rising from the same right that is if you didn't switch the ends of your 50mm pipe as regards the side facing you already. But if you do, and your conductor is now rising from your right, your have reversed the winding to counterclockwise in respect to your first layer.
Stalker and Ruslan once mentioned that you can wind one direction and most of us have never tried it because we believe it give rise to excessive inductance. It is now a matter of interest if this be true. All we ever wanted is reduced inductance. In one of Ruslan videos where he gave tutorial on how to wind grenade coil, his inductance was low when he took measurement.
If winding one direction can bring about such low inductance, I think we have to explore this ASAP. Sometimes our knowledge of conventional science can be barrier which was why I stated that in order to understand this Tesla Technology, one must leave the realm of mainstream science.
@Itsu,
Apecore won't need frequency to measure inductance. With any good LCR METER one can measure any inductance of an inductor.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.11, 19:51:11
Ape, unfortunately, present science says it is not possible to directly transform reactive power into real power.
Asking ChatGPT confirms that:
Can reactive power be converted into active power? How?
Reactive power and active power are two components of electrical power that have different characteristics.
Reactive power represents the power consumed or generated by reactive elements in an electrical system, such as inductors and capacitors.
It does not perform any useful work but is necessary for the functioning of certain electrical devices.
On the other hand, active power represents the actual power that is consumed or generated by devices and performs useful work, such as producing mechanical energy or lighting.
In a purely theoretical sense, it is not possible to directly convert reactive power into active power because they serve different purposes in an electrical system.
However, it is possible to manage and optimize the power factor of a system to reduce the amount of reactive power and maximize the utilization of active power.
One common method to improve the power factor is by using power factor correction devices, such as capacitors.
These devices introduce reactive power of opposite sign to the system, compensating for the reactive power generated by inductive loads.
By reducing the reactive power in the system, the power factor is improved, and more active power can be utilized.
By improving the power factor, the overall efficiency of the system can be enhanced, reducing losses and optimizing the use of available active power.
This indirectly increases the effective utilization of active power while minimizing the amount of reactive power in the system.
So while reactive power cannot be directly converted into active power, managing and optimizing the power factor can help maximize the utilization of active power in an electrical system.
Itsu
Itsu,
This was answer years ago.
Reactive power can be use by first collecting it into a capacitor. After then, use to do work like active power.
Maxolous
Max,
Maybe my notification regarding winding order is not standard.
When I mention layer 1 is CW at start.. and if layer 2 is defined as CW its reversed.
I define CW or CCW always from the view were the layer starts.
So I sweep the tube and start CW again.
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.11, 21:52:23
Itsu,
This was answer years ago.
Reactive power can be use by first collecting it into a capacitor. After then, use to do work like active power.
Maxolous
Max: That is the same for BEMF. Kachers run at least at 1MHz. So, it's no slow "one second" build up in the cap. Inductor run at RF frequency.
Ruslan shows the big loud discharged spark at the O.47uf series capacitor, as fast as he can short it out. Lots of amps.
Who of any of us has shown that...
NickZ
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.11, 21:55:46
Max,
Maybe my notification regarding winding order is not standard.
When I mention layer 1 is CW at start.. and if layer 2 is defined as CW its reversed.
I define CW or CCW always from the view were the layer starts.
So I sweep the tube and start CW again.
Apecore,
Thanks for clarifying this. I almost got confused.
Yes, that was what Ruslan showed us here
https://youtu.be/lQJFmmeDMRk
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.11, 23:44:24
Max: That is the same for BEMF. Kachers run at least at 1MHz. So, it's no slow "one second" build up in the cap. Inductor run at RF frequency.
Ruslan shows the big loud discharged spark at the O.47uf series capacitor, as fast as he can short it out. Lots of amps.
Who of any of us has shown that...
NickZ
Nickz,
BEMF yes, also like boost convertor where the BEMF is collected in cap before being used or available for use.
Concerning the Ruslan video you mentioned l, can you give me a pointer to it.
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.12, 06:20:24
What makes you think its BEMF Geo thought it was that as well, HOW ? there is no connection between the catcher and the grenade or yoke.
Sil
Apecore,
There is connection. The high voltage of kacher is impinging on it. This impingement or pulsing affects the grenade overall performance.
Maybe this is what NickZ knows as "disruptive operation"
I believe this pulsing is to give the electrons flow in the grenade conductor a push
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.12, 06:25:49
Nickz,
BEMF yes, also like boost convertor where the BEMF is collected in cap before being used or available for use.
Concerning the Ruslan video you mentioned l, can you give me a pointer to it.
Maxolous
Howdy all. I thought I'd chime in here because I see some parallels with the work I'm doing.
When you say BEMF, I think you mean inductive kickback which happens when power through a coil is stopped abruptly. BEMF is the counter force / magnetic field that another conductor creates to oppose another magnetic field.
I am going to assume that it is inductive kickback that we're talking about. I've found that it is quite easy to charge a capacitor to a high voltage by interrupting the power into a coil. This voltage is dependent on how quickly you can turn off the switch. The quicker you turn it off, the higher the voltage.
Now, if you have a high frequency switch (MOSFET) that is able to turn off quickly (<10ns) then you can charge the capacitor from the inductive kickback many times per second (up to 1MHz). When you discharge the capacitor the current that is produced is dependent on how quickly you can discharge the capacitor, t=RC. A lower resistance causes a greater current to be produced. If you discharge the capacitor as soon as it has been charged then you can produce a continuous current, but it will be pulsating DC. You'd need to rectify it, smooth it etc. to get a clean DC output. If you want AC at a lower frequency (50/60Hz), then you need to charge a larger output capacitor to a lower voltage from the high frequency, high voltage, low capacitance capacitor and then use an IGBT or high amp MOSGET half bridge to output the low frequency AC.
The energy in a capacitor is E = 0.5 * CV^2. Increasing capacitance gives you a linear energy increase. Increasing voltage gives you an exponential energy increase. Therefore is it much more advantageous to charge a low capacitance to a high voltage, because you get more energy that way. Charging a low capacitance to a high voltage is exactly what we are doing by harvesting the inductive kickback.
I'm working on a device that follows these principles, which I've described in this thread: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4467.0
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.11, 20:44:32
Hi Itsu,
I' m not aware in how doing a inductance measurement at 10khz.
I'm using a Chinees board to plug in a coil or cap and it delivers a value.
Let me know how the 10khz method works.
My interpretation about the grenade config is that it has to absorb electrostatic energy from the antenna.
We need a field in the grenade to interact with antenna..... how this is being done we need to find out.
Inductor playes a part in this.I guess. How? We have to find out.
But in my opinion we need some excitement of standing wave in the grenade together with inductor field coöperation.
So thats why my journey starts with the magnetic field interpretation at 2Mhz
Men could argue that tbe 28turn coil could disrupt also something inside the grenade with its squarewave's.
But enough speculating..., hands-on.... we need a sort of test/ discovery plan.
Ape
Ape,
i have an LCR meter Agilent UC1733C (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/product/U1733C/handheld-lcr-meter-100-hz-120-hz-1-khz-10-khz100-khz.html) which measures the inductance (among other things)
of a coil on several different selectable frequencies (100Hz, 120Hz, 1KHz, 10kHz and 100kHz).
As we run the Grenade between 10 to 25kHz, i selected the 10kHz range which measured the mentioned 150uH.
Therefor i always mention the Inductance at a certain frequency (150uH @ 10kHz) as the inductance varies with frequency.
To show how the inductance of a coil (in this case my Grenade) can vary by frequency i use my nanoVNA to give me the inductance value over a frequency range like here (from my post #39):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=47968;image)
It shows at the 10kHz range (starting frequency of my nanoVNA) the same 150uH as the LCR meter, but then starts to deviate when increasing the frequency until resonance after which the grenade starts to show negative inductances meaning capacitance.
If my LCR meter would be able to measure at say 3.45MHz (marker 3 in the graph) it would show an inductance of -43.3uH and when in "auto mode" switches over to capacitance.
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.12, 07:22:22
Apecore,
There is connection. The high voltage of kacher is impinging on it. This impingement or pulsing affects the grenade overall performance.
Maybe this is what NickZ knows as "disruptive operation"
I believe this pulsing is to give the electrons flow in the grenade conductor a push
Maxolous
Max: I don't relate any of the above to electrons being pushed to flow through the conductor, by the high voltage pulse.
It is a matter of interference of the magnetic flux, instead By disruption, not a push, at all. But by STOPPING, the grenade's pulse, instead. Tesla mentions what happens when the switch is open. Not by "adding" anything.
The Kachers pulse is not being interupted, it's the grenade pulse instead, which gets affected. Big difference.
By simply ADDING HV pulses to the grenade, we will get exactly what we all got, nothing, no OU, no self running...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.11, 14:36:22
Ape:
How do you think that we should analyze the idea of BEMF, and it's relation to OU? Any ideas?
NickZ
Nick, hi
There are several methods.
The common Ruslan setup suggest a regular HV sinewave from the antenna wil be enough to creare OU.
This is not emf.
Dally used nanopulses to penetrate the inductor and or grenade.
Stalker used a interupter to get " nano" pulses from the kacher.
Do you remember Geo' s scopeshot of his kacher signals showing high dV/dt rising edges?
Getting emf from a coil can be done by switching it fast.
Ruslan could have lined its kacher up in such a way, not letting it resonate by pulsing a primary coil but switching the secondary to Vcc.
Here is were you get the nice unipolair puls. In fact half a period from the coils resonance frequency.as the other half way flows trough the bodydiode of the Mosfet.
When you ask how to analyse this I personally think we have to build a testcase were a single puls result can be stored, meaured. This together with scopeshots could point out if we are going the right direction.
Altough I've done a lot testing in this area w/o results I believe in someway the emf from a coil could be stored in the grenade when this grenade acts as a cap... and releases it when goes back to inductive again.
Itsu's nice resonance graph shows these relations.
Ape
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.12, 13:33:37
Max: I don't relate any of the above to electrons being pushed to flow through the conductor, by the high voltage pulse.
It is a matter of interference of the magnetic flux, instead By disruption, not a push, at all. But by STOPPING, the grenade's pulse, instead. Tesla mentions what happens when the switch is open. Not by "adding" anything.
The Kachers pulse is not being interupted, it's the grenade pulse instead, which gets affected. Big difference.
By simply ADDING HV pulses to the grenade, we will get exactly what we all got, nothing, no OU, no self running...
NickZ
I have a lot of experience with pulses over 2kv, and low ns duration.
The idea is to apply the HV and open the switch as fast as possible. When the pulse is applied to a coil of high self-induction (no metal core), the radiant electric effect is supposed to project from the coil, in all directions, like a shock wave. Note that this pulse is biased with DC or with a magnetic field to push it up well above zero.
This radiant electric effect is supposed interact with magnetic fields (some say that it increases the magnetic field strength. I haven't proven or dis-proven this yet.)
I'm not sure how this radiant electric effect would apply to this sort of device...
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.12, 13:33:37
Max: I don't relate any of the above to electrons being pushed to flow through the conductor, by the high voltage pulse.
It is a matter of interference of the magnetic flux, instead By disruption, not a push, at all. But by STOPPING, the grenade's pulse, instead. Tesla mentions what happens when the switch is open. Not by "adding" anything.
The Kachers pulse is not being interupted, it's the grenade pulse instead, which gets affected. Big difference.
By simply ADDING HV pulses to the grenade, we will get exactly what we all got, nothing, no OU, no self running...
NickZ
Nickz,
It will be much appreciated if you show me this disruption process and how to accurately implement it . Because since you've been saying it I don't know how it's done and you have never showed it here.
Maxolous
Max:
I wish that I could show you what I mean, but the idea at this point is to understand the difference to our normal way of seeing all this.
And hopefully get closer to the truth, as there seams to be nothing but disinformation. Any ways, that's how I understand things so far.
And, I'm still hot on the trail...
NickZ
article claims working principles of these devices, pumps electrons from earth: attached
circuit appears to be Naudin's: https://overunity.com/13316/a-kapanadze-generator-replication-febuary-2013/
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.13, 07:07:08
That device might look similare to the unsuspecting, but has nothing to do with this device or behaves
any thing like it and is off topic.
Sil
I'm sure you are an expert on this subject and have a garage full of working devices, but you can't spell "similar"...
I asume everybody is either working hard on testing its setup or deep diving in specific information.
Or am I the only one? ;D
can somebody explain to me why in grenade there is so many wire layers ?
Quote from: forest on 2023.06.14, 17:13:59
can somebody explain to me why in grenade there is so many wire layers ?
I' m not sure but it sppears to me is to create a solid magnetic field wich interfeers in a way with the inductor magnetic field.
When you wind the layers in a certain way the created magnetic field at each layer point out the same direction or not?
You could make a drawing and use the right hand rule and see
if the different grenade configuration have simularity or not.
Attached a drawing I hopefully did the rigth way
The big question is what do we need.
Ape
Quote from: forest on 2023.06.14, 17:13:59
can somebody explain to me why in grenade there is so many wire layers ?
See my answer in my post #96 here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104996#msg104996
Itsu
Something I will like to try too
AG,
At what frequency is your wound grenade resonate.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.15, 14:34:51
Something I will like to try too
Hi Max,
that looks like Stalkers Version 2 Grenade which i also use now as mentioned earlier https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.16, 08:43:51
Hi Max,
that looks like Stalkers Version 2 Grenade which i also use now as mentioned earlier https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91333#msg91333
Itsu
@Itsu,
I have seen it.
But look critically, look at it again comparing the one I just posted and yours, there is a slight difference. Thus, if you are looking at the point that layer 2 stopped and layer 3 started in my post considering the direction of wound of layer 3, mathematically, layer 3 is in the same direction as layer 2. Please, study it.
I stand to be corrected.
Find attached.
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.16, 14:10:15
Grenade winding Note a more balanced variant device can be found on the Dally thread page 163
witch needs looking into.
The inductor winding would (perhaps) need winding ob first.
Sil
https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/2430/
AG,
I looked at it .
It's the Bloch wall method of Late Don Smith
He said ; oneside is current Amps and the other is voltage Amps
Maxolous
Itsu,
If am correct, layer 1,2,3, are in same direction in my image notation
Same principle if winding a transformer for Inverter(layer2&3)
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.16, 16:31:30
as in drawing.
AG,
Your above arrangement refers;
First 2 layers one direction, the last 4layers reversed direction
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.16, 14:50:10
@Itsu,
I have seen it.
But look critically, look at it again comparing the one I just posted and yours, there is a slight difference. Thus, if you are looking at the point that layer 2 stopped and layer 3 started in my post considering the direction of wound of layer 3, mathematically, layer 3 is in the same direction as layer 2. Please, study it.
I stand to be corrected.
Find attached.
Maxolous
Hi Max,
yes you are correct, i see it, the difference is starting between layers 2 and 3.
Interesting again, so this could be Stalkers Grenade V3 O0
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.16, 15:03:33
Itsu,
If am correct, layer 1,2,3, are in same direction in my image notation
Same principle if winding a transformer for Inverter(layer2&3)
Maxolous
Hmm, It's hard to see how layer 3 is wound, CW or CCW, i do not see the pictogram as with the other layers (I guess the pictograms left of the inductor are pointing to the inductor winding direction).
Perhaps a better picture could show what is meant.
Itsu
It is quite clear that the grenade is wound in the same direction if image is studied critically. Except it is an error from the designer. However, when grenade is wound in one direction as I have found out, it resonate at wire length when the resonance frequency is determined in the half wave mode.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.16, 20:59:09
Hmm, It's hard to see how layer 3 is wound, CW or CCW,
If we agree that layer2 is ccw, if the designer says layer3 goes cw from the view from reversed side as indicated in pictogram. Therefore, layer3 is ccw with respect to layer1,2. If that be the case, it also means that layer4,5,6. Which is in same direction as layer3 are all ccw.
Surfice to say the grenade is in one direction which is ccw.
This will resonate at it natural frequency of wire length.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.16, 20:59:09
i do not see the pictogram as with the other layers (I guess the pictograms left of the inductor are pointing to the inductor winding direction).
Perhaps a better picture could show what is meant.
Itsu
This was why I said study it carefully, you will fathom what am saying.
Maxolous.
Hi Max,
looking at the drawing, i see in the bottom left, 2 pictograms with the Russian letters "л" and "п" next to it.
"л" stands for L, and "п" for p if you translate it into English, i guess for left and right? as being written behind it in English.
So "л" (L) is CCW looking into the direction from the arrow, "п" (p) is CW also looking into the direction of the arrow.
It does not matter in what direction you look, a CW wound coil will show CW when looking from either side.
The layers are also marked with these pictograms / letters on the top part in the diagram, with layers 1 and 2 showing on the left side both the L pictogram (CCW).
Layers 3, 4, 5, and 6 are marked with either a pictogram or p or "п" on the right side all meaning CW.
The Inductor also has these pictograms on its left side, both showing p (CW).
So to me this means that layers 1 and 2 are CW and layers 3, 4, 5 and 6 are CCW.
All the layers are not forth and back, but forth, then straight back to the beginning and again forth with between layers 2 and 3 a swap from CCW to CW.
The bottom right shows that layers 4, 5 and 6 are for tuning the Grenade to match the calculated inductance, whatever "calculated inductance" is being meant.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.17, 09:20:28
The bottom right shows that layers 4, 5 and 6 are for tuning the Grenade to match the calculated inductance, whatever "calculated inductance" is being meant.
Itsu
I would suggest in order to find out, winding these layers in such a way we determine its inductance range at the highest and lowest possible outcome.
Ape
I just got some info from Vasik who send me some details on that Grenade winding method in the attached pdf.
Under the "Gradient coil" (Grenade) part it gives some info about this coil and the calculated inductance (143uH), but also this:
half the length of the wire wound on the first two layers in one direction, the second half of the
wire in the opposite direction 4 layers, this forms two "halves" of the multilayer bifilar coil
Which for me confirms that it's not wound all in one direction.
Anyway, i got some more info (pdf's) from Vasik which i will forward here later this weekend.
Itsu
Thanks Itsu, for confirming that also my grenade is wound correctly. Mine is wound just like your darker bolder print in your previous post. So, I don't understand what all the discussion is about.
Maybe Vasik would like to be part of this forum again. And may need help, like I did.
NickZ
AG:
How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others, that you have not tried?
Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you? Not much, it looks like.
NickZ
I got my eye on this topic.
Won't be posting much in this thread to avoid distraction, But now i post just to cheer up up, apecore, and all others who got light of hope O0
Regards
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.17, 13:44:03
AG:
How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others, that you have not tried?
Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you?
NickZ
Nick,
I have one and had even lower ones.
I tried to get a grenade in half wave resonance.. 4Mhz.. but 3.7Mhz was the limit.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/uhxOdjuRgnc
In my vid it seems it is half wave resonance.
Quote from: worldcup on 2023.06.17, 13:53:35
I got my eye on this topic.
Won't be posting much in this thread to avoid distraction, But now i post just to cheer up up, apecore, and all others who got light of hope O0
Regards
8)
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.17, 13:44:03
AG:
How about you wind up a grenade and show us how it's inductance is near zero. Because I don't see that in practice.
May be wishfull thinking, instead.
So, how about it, will you build something, or just keep suggestng things to others, that you have not tried?
Maybe you know why 37.5 meters is the right wavelength. Or even 40 meter, instead. Why is that the "right" size?
Remember, there are no self runners running at the SAME frequency, or even close by. What does that tell you?
NickZ
Nickz,
I can see that you are vilifying AG. There's nothing wrong in what he said. Grenades inductance can bre as low as 20μH. It all depends on how they are wound
Maxolous
Max:
As you think that AG is right, perhaps you should follow his advice. And show us how well your grenade shows zero inductance, instead. As I already know what his suggestions lead to, nothing, at all. And I don't need nor want his insulting advices, while he is just forever only guessing, while telling me what I should do. I have known him for years. Have you?
BTW: If you think that near zero inductance is what is needed, please show us how well that works for you. So far much of what Stalker has mentioned can't be replicated, and I am trying to figure out why that is. Not by guessing...from someone that has never built what is being discussed on these threads.
NickZ
Do you have a working generator of square wave in the range of 1 - 5Mhz to power grenade ? Seems a hard problem to me
Quote from: forest on 2023.06.17, 16:47:08
Do you have a working generator of square wave in the range of 1 - 5Mhz to power grenade ? Seems a hard problem to me
What you mean " to power grenade?
Switching 1kV at 5Mhz is not a problem
Forest:
I don't know who you are asking. But, yes I do have a working push pull square wave generator that runs the grenade. But no such generator needs to run at over 10 to 30KHz to operate the grenade.
The Kacher is what runs at 1 to 2MHz, or so.
Running the Kachers at higher than 3MHz will result in less and less output, and therefore no effect to the grenade.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.17, 17:30:17
this test
Ok,
So that Nick coil as you are showing is only 2 layers?
When doing this with all layers of grenade you get close to 12-15uH. 4Mhz...
Ps, why do you call it Nick?
Ape
AG:
That is amazing, but will it self run, or is it just another distraction?
Well, I can tell you that it won't fly, nor will it do anything at all, towards OU. So, why do you bring that up, now.
More distraction...which don't have anything to do with me, or with my grenade, Nor with what we are looking for. A grenade and Kacher that work.
NickZ
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.17, 14:40:53
Nick,
I have one and had even lower ones.
I tried to get a grenade in half wave resonance.. 4Mhz.. but 3.7Mhz was the limit.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/uhxOdjuRgnc
In my vid it seems it is half wave resonance.
Really, Ape? And just what could it do at those low inductances. Perhaps you can show us how well it actually works. It's output, and such. I'll check your video, first.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.17, 18:28:34
Really, Ape? And just what could it do at those low inductances. Perhaps you can show us how well it actually works. It's output, and such. I'll check your video, first.
NickZ
Well Nick,
We all know no one showed selfrunners yet but I tougth we were exploring the grenade together?
Unfortunately there is lots of discussion rather then a development in patterns.
But when I have some nice results I will show you.
Grt
Ape
Ape: Yes, we are looking at the grenade, but in relation to what works. Not just trying to find the matched frequency, but what will that frequency actually do, at the output. So, that is what needs to be compared to, in the end. Otherwise, it doesn't mean too much, just by itself. Slayer states 143uh. Is that so low an inductance? Compare to your 10 to 15uh?
Any ways, Ape, you now have 2Mhz grenade, now what?
NickZ
2 or 4Mhz.. I think uts 4Mhz.
So that means I get a standing 1/2 wave inside my 37.5meter grenade.
That means if that occurs the voltage at both ends will be zero at all time.
So I would say to Max, thats not what will bring voltage across our load.
When its the 2Mhz then we have a 1/4 wave standing... means always max voltage between the two grenade ends.
This I think is best for output voltage.
Next step is the currnt.. when we have 200Vols at our grenade it would be nice to have 5Amps also.
Only Stalker or Ruslan have it... even w/o a standing wave.. or.. what also is possible.
Having a lower grenade frequency then you add your groundwire length in order to get the related total amount of wirelength.
F.i. when having a 1Mhz frequency at grenade you need to add an extra 37.5meter groundline in order to get a standingwave.
Unfortunately the voltage different between both grenade ends will be less then having the 2Mhz situation.
You could ask... how to ground a 2Mhz grenade?.. well I add also 37.5meter groundline so I get a half wave standing in total.
With still having max voltage difference between both grenade ends.
In how this standing wave situation will remain when the load is connected I don't know.
But I do know all we get now is some power from inductor and a bit from kacher.... probably only buck boost principle and no additional power from the unknown.
Anyway, I'm convinced we wont find the clue by just replicating like a lego build.. so discovering something by looking a bit different won't hurt I think.
I know I'm pushing the discussion often out of your thread scope as it is called replication....
When you don't want that, its ok for me and I will stop here.
Because I'm done with 100% replicating something w/o understanding whats happening... and in fact waiting for the lucky shot for someone to disclose.
No hard feeling your the regulator here and its your bench and thats also ok for me.
Grt,
Ape
Some more info (video's with text) from Vasik, it contains transcriptions of some (old) video's, but more expanded, i think very useful.
Itsu
Max.
Thanks for the advice, but, it sounds more like more of your insults, to me
I don't need you to tell me how to think, or what to do, I'm a grown man.
This thread is meant for discussion and replication efforts. Not insults, as I been getting from you and AG.
I asked for some kind of proof of what is known and shown, not just theories and guesses. You have a problem with that?
Like some hands-on tests and verifications, as Itsu has been showing, instead. Something wrong with that?
I really don't know what you are talking about, Max. Other than your insults, I mean.
NickZ
Ape:
I really am focused on this project, not in a theoretical sense, but in a real sense, with a real mission in mind. And with a real self runner working finally on my bench.
If you see that what we are discussing here does not serve you, I understand. But, I am focused on finding an answer to this particular riddle. I hope that you can understand. And can continue to contribute your part, in this.
NickZ
Itsu:
Thanks for the additional info. I will review it. And thanks to Vasik, as well. I hope that he is doing well, I do miss him here with us.
I also miss Geofusion, and others of like minds.
NickZ
BTW: Itsu how are we doing with the idea of the standing waves, etc...
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.17, 20:52:47
Some more info (video's with text) from Vasik, it contains transcriptions of some (old) video's, but more expanded, i think very useful.
Itsu
Thanks Itsu for this wealth of information.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.06.17, 23:50:43
Itsu:
Thanks for the additional info. I will review it. And thanks to Vasik, as well. I hope that he is doing well, I do miss him here with us.
I also miss Geofusion, and others of like minds.
NickZ
BTW: Itsu how are we doing with the idea of the standing waves, etc...
Nick,
the problem with standing waves is that you can not see or measure them in a Grenade, at least not to my knowledge.
So it's hard to detect them if they are there.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.18, 09:54:51
Nick,
the problem with standing waves is that you can not see or measure them in a Grenade, at least not to my knowledge.
So it's hard to detect them if they are there.
Itsu
Drive a coil at it natural resource frequency or a coil that resonate at it natural frequency attains a standing wave.
Maxolous
" a standing wave in a coiled wire can be created by applying an alternating current with a specific frequency that matches the resonant frequency of the wire. The wire will then vibrate at its natural frequency, creating a standing wave with nodes and antinodes along its length".
I quoted from somewhere.
This is what we are trying to achieve with Tesla on our grenade coil. If your grenade coil resonate at 1.4MHZ and you set your Tesla transformer to resonate at this same frequency, you will have a standing wave. Nobody is talking much about this. You have to be meticulous about this because it is laborious and not for the undetermined.
As I have earlier stressed, "Tesla will pull Gc to a stand"
It involves much adjustment of Tesla sec.
Maxolous.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.18, 13:28:40
No not with that type but in saying that if you drive it into it's resonance they should be at it's output, if you have a Amtr Radio background you could tune it.
Sil
That's the form
Maxolous
The question you might want to ask now is how do know if you have a standing wave.
It is the frequency where you Gc terminals bulb is at maximum powered by Tesla alone. Simply put; where you have the highest induced voltage at Gc terminals
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.18, 09:54:51
Nick,
the problem with standing waves is that you can not see or measure them in a Grenade, at least not to my knowledge.
So it's hard to detect them if they are there.
Itsu
Itsu: ok thanks for that comment. As I have never seen them (standing waves) from my device, is why I asked. Could be that they are just another thing that we don't need, like the fish wave forms. And we are just barking up the wrong tree.
As there is still a pulse outgoing from the grenade when the Kacher is going, also. And this combination does show an interaction to some degree, just not to the needed degree for me. Yet I notice little to no interaction shown by the controlable Kachers, when tuning to those supposed set frequencies, barely lighting the bulbs, when several hundred watt loads are used.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.18, 06:09:29
Nick I see Geo on another thread, so where do you think the standing waves would come from ?
Sil
AG:
What standing waves? Are they supposed to be something needed for OU, etc?
I have never seen them, nor am I looking for them. I can see the voltage pulses and frequencies, and can control duty cycle, and such.
But no standing waves at all, nor those fish waves, either.
If Geofusion is around, he can come and join us, as he once had done on this site.
We are all looking for the answer. We can work together, or just insult each other, instead.
What will it be? Sorry but I don't take insults too well.
NickZ
AG:
And can you show how that relates to OU, and such, and why it's needed at all . Or is it just another distraction? Like "fish waves".
We need to go chasing standing waves now. Why? Because fish waves were a scope illusion.
So, I ask for proof, as in, "the proof is in the pudding". Not just untested and unverified hear say.
Guys, what I'm saying is shown is my videos, they aren't guesses, I'm showing most everything that I've ever done and tested, as can be seen, not imagined. They are real videos, not fakes. That is what I would expect from you. So, we can advance with this, not just empty speculations. That is what I mean by, show it, even what does not work as one though it should, if it's relevant.
This is one of the most important threads on any forum on the internet. Be respectfull, please.
NickZ
AG:
Any other disrespecfull posts will also be deleted, as your last one has been.
Think about what you say...
NickZ
Standing waves show up as cymatic patterns but not as a single plane but 3d areas of compressed, uncompressed - nodes/antinodes energy.Standing waves can be moved harmonically by random or controlled forces.The harmonic movement is every 7th wave in the high seas. The harmonic movement must be dampened in HV power lines and transformers in power distribution networks. The harmonic movement is what turns solid earth into a moving slide.The greats that got shut down knew about harmonically moving the resonant fields. The difference between them and the rest of the world is that they captured the rhythmic action instead of letting it go to self destruction. This self destruction is what has caused all the grief of ignorant fools. They shunt, filter, dampen, and ground out the most explosive power on the planet. The power when not channeled destroys metals and unconstrained items. Think Hendershot, Moray and there are others.What is interesting and mostly missing is that the resonant fields can be kinetically shaken by spark gaps. Don Smith and Steven Mark showed this. I promoted it early on in 2006 due to what I saw from the greats. Telsa mentioned that men would amazed at the power available when the fields reconnect. It is nature's law that it ABHORS a vacuum. Moving a copper wire through the field is a fine example of this as the field reconnects after the wire passes through the 3d area. The wire captures that energy.The excitation can be accomplished by rhythmic or kinetic execution. Its your choice as to how you want to deal with the entropy.
GK:
Hi, and welcome to this thread. I guess that you read about the standing waves, and such. And I appreciate your comment.
What we are looking for here concerning these types of standing waves as well as other types of waves, such as longitudinal waves is just how and why they may be important to our search. So, the main thing is showing and proving their usefulness towards providing for free energy, and self running, also. As so far I have seen no proof of that. Although I don't know if they are what is needed in our case, and that is why I asked for some kind proof of these illusive waves in relation to what we are trying to accomplish here. But, in no way am I against the idea. Just looking for proof of concept, instead. But, it seams that was too much to ask for? And I get static, instead.
GK, I know that you've been with us, in your own way, from the beggining.
What the spark gap devices do to Resonant fields, is what these types of devices do as well. By vibrating the surrounding Aether, and harvesting the resulting additional extra energy (like the wire) into our device, and then out to the load. There is no extra energy, without that detail.
Of course we have been told that neither the Aether, nor an energy filled vacume exists. I am trying to disprove that bit of disinformation. As I do agree with what Tesla states about all this, instead, concerning cosmic fields, and I feel that we are being kept in the dark, on purpose, for many years, and we are still there.
This discussion is not off topic at all, nor will it be removed. Thanks for your contribution GK.
NickZ
Peterae:
Things seam to be working better now. Not sure what happened, but this thread seams to be working ok now.
Although I see a padlock. So, perhaps that means that it is now locked to non members, but I don't know.
NickZ
Yes, it comes through fine, for members, possibly.
NickZ
Itsu:
As of the last few minutes, the second Re thread is now gone.
Just saying, that I am not doing any of this.
But, that is fine by me, I would have removed it, but I don't even know how.
So, hopefully things are back to normal now.
Thanks Itsu, poynt, and Chet, for your help.
NickZ
Yes, I removed it as it only had a few recent off-topic posts about this stuff we've been dealing with.
Poynt:
Ok, thanks for letting us know.
Now, to get back to the topic at hand.
NickZ
Guys, what do you believe is the principle of operation of any mentioned here devices? Personally I believe in interaction with Earth magnetic field but maybe there is some human (military?) created source of energy and grenade is just tuned to its frequency ?
Well, that is no easy topic to discuss, or to give a simple answer to. But, yes, it has to do with the Earth field, and how to extract energy from that source.
However, I can and have mentioned many times what I think that it's mode of operation is. Yet, people want to see something tangible working for real, and that is something that none of us can provide. However, that is also what this thread is about. But, it's a long story, and in the end no one believes me. So...if that is just a theoretical question, I have a theoretical answer.
But, in this case, opinions are a dime a dozen. And I am here to do more than give my "opinions".
NickZ
OK, so where were we?
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.18, 14:15:34
" a standing wave in a coiled wire can be created by applying an alternating current with a specific frequency that matches the resonant frequency of the wire. The wire will then vibrate at its natural frequency, creating a standing wave with nodes and antinodes along its length".
I quoted from somewhere.
This is what we are trying to achieve with Tesla on our grenade coil. If your grenade coil resonate at 1.4MHZ and you set your Tesla transformer to resonate at this same frequency, you will have a standing wave. Nobody is talking much about this. You have to be meticulous about this because it is laborious and not for the undetermined.
As I have earlier stressed, "Tesla will pull Gc to a stand"
It involves much adjustment of Tesla sec.
Maxolous.
I think you are right Max, looking online is see a lot of documents stating that Standing waves and resonance are going hand in hand.
Some states that you need resonance for a standing wave to occur.
But my problem is that most of these documents show an animated gif where we have a line (often a transmission line, so 2 parallel wires) where a wave of multiple wavelength (2 or 3 or more wavelengths)
are showed which are going forth and back (due to a short or open) and thus crossing each other which at certain points the standing wave occurs.
But we have a Grenade (1 wire) which seems to be in quarter wave resonance on say 2MHz, thus i do not see where there could be a standing wave occur as we have not even 1 full wave length.
I could see it happen for a multiple of this 2MHz like 16MHz which is 2 wavelengths, but do we need a standing wave at 16MHz while we work with a quarter wave resonance on 2MHz?
Where do i go wrong?
Itsu
Itsu:
I don't see you doing anything "wrong". I think that you are bringing up some very important and pertinent information.
I see and feel that this standing wave theory in our case in nonexistent.
But, the main thing is that you and others are basing this standing wave to be at a certain harmonic frequency, such as 2MHz, but no one is showing it actually doing anything at all at that fixed frequency. I think that you have already shown that to have been the case previously, when trying use set matching frequencies. There was nobody home there.
So, in order to know if this standing wave is actually needed, one would have to show the standing waves effects at the output.
Which I have not seen, as yet. To me this is all about as real as fish waves, or snake oil, until proven otherwise.
I hear guys talking about it, but no tests to prove the valitidy of the point, or sweet spot at 2MHz or any other matched set frequency.
Vibrating a coil at it's same frequency is easy, producing extra energy therefrom, is not.
In order to do the above tests, one needs a fully built device, which nobody has. And I don't think that it is worth the effort, in this case.
Chasing another distraction...like chasing wild Geese.
One man's point of view...but any one is free to spend all the time needed, on this
NickZ
I have never seen Ruslan, Akula, nor Stalker show a scope shot of anything running at 2MHz. Have you?
They all have the 37.5 meter size grenade. Nor do their Grenade to Kacher frequencies match up, like we think they should.
Nor even close...
Plus each one of their devices are running at different frequencies. As shown on their videos. I guess that is not important?
NickZ
Hi Nick,
well, the problem is that many people have replicated the Ruslan setup in many different ways, but none has succeeded to let it self run.
So that is not the way to go i think.
We need to understand how the different components work and work together and what they are capable of, then need to find the modus operandus.
Only then are we able to put one and one together and build something that should work.
But we need a collective effort to do so IMO.
Itsu
Notifacation
I have changed my thread title so as not to confuse
Itsu can we talk but not on this thread
Sil
Itsu:
The other issue is that there has been absolutely no advancement, by any one going off on his own like Vidura has done and many many others, as well. So, I highly doubt that that is going to work, either. As it has also not worked after all this time.
If I could, I would go and work with one of the inventors and learn the trade, as for me building up these simple circuits is no problem.
Getting them to actually do some thing is.
However, I don't know enough to invent something that works on my own, as I 've already tried most everything that I can think of, so far. So, for me, as I still have a complete system, it seams unproductive to just go off and start over. As I already have hundreds if not thousands of hours behind the wheel with hands on replication and modification. So chasing the unknown does not compute.
I would like to find what is wrong, instead, or if we are just pissing into the wind. I can handle that, or if we find that we have all been lied to.
I did lose some credibility for Ruslan after he sold a non working unit for $5.000. Seams like money can make people do crazy things.
I also think that it's possible that these devices can cause a bad consequences if not treated properly, like what Tesla has found with death rays, earthquake devices, that can bring building and bridges down to the ground, and dangerous Laser technologies, etc.
Therefore, I am sure that these simple desk top models do work, if built right.
In the mean time more and more and more nuclear plants are being built. How nice...
Our main problem is not that no one has a working unit, but, that they are scared to show it, anymore. Like Stalker...Akula, and Ruslan.
There are also several others that built working units, besides, the known guys. Even Adrian Gustav, just right in his bedroom. And it worked in the field. And it was just like mine.
So...me thinks, that the chance of inventing a non replication that works, is very very slim. I have not seen that as yet. Not by any of us.
But, I am willing to be surprised.
NickZ
Apecore pointed me to this patent: US 2010/0059692 in which it is stated that the minimum wavelength a standing wave can occur is at 1/4 wavelength, see this picture in that patent:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48045;image)
It supposes to say that even when a coil is in 1/4 wave resonance as our Grenade, it still can have a standing wave with 1 peak (hot end) and 1 null.
So that would mean that in our Grenade we do have and 1/4 wave resonance (like on 2MHz) and 1 standing wave peak.
I know that patents mostly do not show all the details, so we have to be careful, but the fact that we can measure resonance (2MHz at 1/4 wavelength) and we have a hot end and a null end on the Grenade
probably means we have both.
Something else that seems interesting to me, i found in the video from Ruslan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQJFmmeDMRk
There he shows how to build a Grenade, and he mentions at the end (around 22 minutes) that this Grenade does NOT suppose to be in resonance.
The only thing that should be in resonance is the inductor.
He also showed the dimensions of the antenna which suppose to have 2 fingers wide (4 cm) distance from the Inductor.
So i printed myself a new holder for the antenna coil as can be seen here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48047;image)
Regards Itsu
So, last night was extremely stormy here where I live with non stop lightning and thunder most of the night, pretty scary. And while I could not sleep from 2am on, I was thinking about our dilema. Of replications without replications. I don't know how that is going to work out. So I'll wait and see what you guys come up with, as I have no idea how you'll be testing the standing wave theory in our case without the rest of the device. As neither Itsu nor any one else seems to be too interested in this replication, but want to try something else instead. As it's not a matter of just building one part without the other. I don't see how we can work this out.
So, ok let's say that you find the standing wave at 2MHz, then what? No device to test it on...
Also, Ruslan says the inductor need to be in resonanse, and not the grenade, which you are looking for it to be in resonase at 1/4 wave. So, my question is, the inductor needs to be in resonanse to what?
Sorry, but none of this ls making much sense to me. As well as my distrust to what Ruslan says. He is the only one needing 2 fingers away from the grenade to the inductor.
Anyways Itsu thanks for showing us your new antenna set up. Looks great.
NickZ
Nick,
i agree, it does not make sense to me either.
We have Stalker who never showed a self runner, but who makes many videos about all kind of methods to measure resonances, standing waves, constructing Grenades, etc. and we have Ruslan who did show several self runners, but who preaches to not make it too complicated by showing a simple straightforward Grenade, mentions resonance is in the Inductor only (resonance to match the push-pull frequency) and to use a simple (non-interrupted) kacher.
Who / what to follow?
Itsu
As we are testing and changing the devices, trying this or that, so are they, all of them. Which can be deceiving compared to the newer versions and videos that we see lately. Even Kapanadze came out with some pretty elaborate designs, which he could not possibly have have built, himself. So, who did?
We are trying to compare and use normal and common electronics practices, on free energy devices. The circuits work, although with some overheating, using the shown push pull and Kacher circuits. What does not work is the sync, no, not the kitchen sink
That is where I'm at, even though now I don't have my 37.5 meter ground line going down into my water well as I had before. I don't want to bore with the details, but it is an important loss for me. I wish it were possible to just connect up to my grid ground, instead. So I have to work on that angle, also.
NickZ
So i added one of my older kacher secondaries to the Grenade / Inductor / Antenna.
I will do some measurements to see how any kacher signal will be received by the Grenade etc.
Itsu
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48051;image)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.22, 20:24:41
So i added one of my older kacher secondaries to the Grenade / Inductor / Antenna.
I will do some measurements to see how any kacher signal will be received by the Grenade etc.
Itsu
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48051;image)
Itsu: it would be good to add the same type of TC primary coil, as your antenna has. Any thing that looks that good, just has to work.
And also, that the TC secondary coil should also be tuned to the right working frequency, as well, once we know what that frequency is.
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.22, 15:39:37
Nick,
i agree, it does not make sense to me either.
We have Stalker who never showed a self runner, but who makes many videos about all kind of methods to measure resonances, standing waves, constructing Grenades, etc. and we have Ruslan who did show several self runners, but who preaches to not make it too complicated by showing a simple straightforward Grenade, mentions resonance is in the Inductor only (resonance to match the push-pull frequency) and to use a simple (non-interrupted) kacher.
Who / what to follow?
Itsu
The one who claims to have a self runner, especially if self-running can be proven.
What did Ruslan mean when he used the term "resonance"?
Grumps:
Good question. I assume that Ruslan means that the inductor coil needs to be at its best resonant point, compared to the frequency provided by the push pull circuit. So, capacitors like 2000 volt wima caps 0.47uf are used in series with the yokes 3 turn coil circuit to further tune the inductor to optimum resonance. Yet the same goes for the grenade output coil, as it also uses 2000v 0.15uf wima caps to tune it's output to best resonanse, also. Although Ruslan stated at one point that 10uf caps are used at the grenade output, instead.
So, take your pick...
I know this is all hard to get a grasp on. And there are more than one version of these devices as well. As each self runner is different, and running at different resonant frequencies, also. That is part of the confusion.
NickZ
I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.
1. With the scope probe not connected, but close to the top Kacher secondary (no gizmo or antenna connected), i find a single resonance at 2765kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary only resonance).
2. With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna (so gizmo and antenna connected), i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
3. With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope probe) Grenade resonance).
So there is a hugh difference in resonance frequency with or without the gizmo plus antenna connected (gizmo is the opposing coils on the ferrite rod in between the secondary and antenna)
This all is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).
To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.
I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 08:16:58
I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.
With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna, i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope probe) Grenade resonance).
This is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).
To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.
I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.
Itsu any chance you can show any of your grenade output wave forms, it should self oscillate the Chinese one does it beautifully!
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 08:16:58
I put a 5 turn primary on the Kacher and exited it with a square wave from my FG sweeping a frequency range to detect the several resonances.
With the scope probe not connected, but close to the antenna, i find a single resonance at 1420kHz (the unloaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance).
With the scope probe attached to the Grenade ends, i find 2 resonance points at 1334kHz (the now slightly loaded kacher secondary / Antenna resonance) and one at 1782kHz (the loaded (by scope probe) Grenade resonance).
This is with the secondary kacher start lead attached to ground (FG ground lead).
To have both resonance matched, i need to either lower the Grenade resonance point, or increase the kacher secondary resonance point.
I will try to increase the kacher resonance first.
Itsu
Itsu,
What a beautiful setting you have here.
Please, what's are you looking for in the experiment.
Maxolous
Below is a combined translation of two papers by Alexander Abramovich on his theory regarding the Karnaukhov generator. This may or may not be of any interest but I've seen no mention of his work here. He claims there is gain in the push-pull circuit along with the grenade thus when combined make for large gains. Perhaps some insight may be gained from his work.
Regards,
Pm
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.26, 10:54:48
Itsu,
What a beautiful setting you have here.
Please, what's are you looking for in the experiment.
Maxolous
Thanks Max.
I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary / antenna resonance, preferable around 2MHz.
Itsu
Quote from: partzman on 2023.06.26, 12:28:48
Below is a combined translation of two papers by Alexander Abramovich on his theory regarding the Karnaukhov generator. This may or may not be of any interest but I've seen no mention of his work here. He claims there is gain in the push-pull circuit along with the grenade thus when combined make for large gains. Perhaps some insight may be gained from his work.
Regards,
Pm
Thanks Partzman,
i have seen that paper before, not sure when or when, but i think it deserves to be studied here again.
Regards Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 15:47:31
Thanks Max.
I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary / antenna resonance, preferable around 2MHz.
Itsu
This can be achieved in several ways and one of the ways is attached.
Just a quick one , am on the road .
Set up this.
Find the minimum amplitude on scope . That's your resonance frequency at that kacher wire length, you can bring it down to your choice frequency while the grenade is inside your ant.
Bringing it down mean cutting wire length.
Regards
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 15:47:31
Thanks Max.
preferable around 2MHz.
Itsu
@2MHZ your wire will be grossly reduced to short coil of not more than 5 inches in length. Especially if using 0.8mm for kacher sec. It will be better to use 1.5mm if you are resonating at that frequency.
Maxolous
Thanks Max,
i will use some shorter secondary coils i already have lying around first.
By the way, i edited my post above with the found resonance points, as i added the resonance frequency of the kacher secondary WITHOUT the gizmo and antenna attached (2765kHz).
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 15:47:31
Thanks Max.
I am looking to match the Grenade self resonance with the Kacher secondary
Itsu
Itsu,
Preferably, match the kacher sec to grenade self resonance.
Maybe we meant the same thing.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 19:15:42
Thanks Max,
i will use some shorter secondary coils i already have lying around first.
By the way, i edited my post above with the found resonance points, as i added the resonance frequency of the kacher secondary WITHOUT the gizmo and antenna attached (2765kHz).
Itsu
Okay
Yes Max, we mean the same thing :)
Anyway, i tried 3 different kacher secondaries, varying between 394uH, 475uH and 685uH, and their self resonance points are varying between 2765, 3000 and 3100kHz, but they all behave similarly when attached to the gizmo plus antenna.
With other words, they all 3 have a self resonance point when attached to the gizmo plus antenna of around 1430kHz with the Grenade still resonating around 1780kHz.
So it seems the gizmo plus antenna has a major influence on the kacher secondary and determines for the most part the resonance frequency of this Kacher secondary.
I therefor think that further adjusting (decreasing the number of turns) the kacher secondary is of little use here.
Itsu
Itsu so your Tesla coil and your grenade are the same frequency, oh but still no magic
after 12 odd years strange isn't it how we see things we think have no meaning
and sweep them under the carpet. Still why change the habit of a life time.
Nothing personal intended and I sincerely wish you and Nick all the best O0
regards Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.26, 19:02:04
This can be achieved in several ways and one of the ways is attached.
Just a quick one , am on the road .
Set up this.
Find the minimum amplitude on scope . That's your resonance frequency at that kacher wire length, you can bring it down to your choice frequency while the grenade is inside your ant.
Bringing it down mean cutting wire length.
Regards
Maxolous
Max,
i tried your method and found the resonance points of my 3 secondaries plus gizmo and Antenna (without Grenade / Inductor) to be:
394uH = 1799kHz
475uH = 1698kHz
685uH = 1409kHz
So again, all 3 secondary self resonance points are lowered considerably by adding the gizmo plus antenna.
But when adding the Grenade / Inductor, these resonance frequencies will decrease till the earlier mentioned 1430kHz or so.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 20:19:08
Max,
i tried your method and found the resonance points of my 3 secondaries plus gizmo and Antenna (without Grenade / Inductor) to be:
394uH = 1799kHz
475uH = 1698kHz
685uH = 1409kHz
So again, all 3 secondary self resonance points are lowered considerably by adding the gizmo plus antenna.
But when adding the Grenade / Inductor, these resonance frequencies will decrease till the earlier mentioned 1430kHz or so.
Itsu
Itsu,
Good try.
1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.
2. Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place
3. Let your grenade be inside your antenna
4. Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.
5. Set your SG to 20V
6. Short grenade inductor
7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.
8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.
9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.
Regards
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 19:47:00
Yes Max, we mean the same thing :)
Anyway, i tried 3 different kacher secondaries, varying between 394uH, 475uH and 685uH, and their self resonance points are varying between 2765, 3000 and 3100kHz, but they all behave similarly when attached to the gizmo plus antenna.
Itsu.
I missed this, I went to last page before noticing this
Was the grenade in operation at that time you carried out the test.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 19:47:00
With other words, they all 3 have a self resonance point when attached to the gizmo plus antenna of around 1430kHz with the Grenade still resonating around 1780kHz.
You force it to resonate at your dictated frequency by adjusting wire length of your kacher sec
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 19:47:00
So it seems the gizmo plus antenna has a major influence on the kacher secondary and determines for the most part the resonance frequency of this Kacher secondary.
I don't think so, they are supposed to be slave to kacher sec. If kacher sec is forceful enough. In this case, I see the push-pull was on. Mind you, the SG only output 2OWatts in most cases.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.26, 19:47:00
I therefor think that further adjusting (decreasing the number of turns) the kacher secondary is of little use here.
Itsu
It will matter when it has enough pumping power. Just put the grenade there, don't power it.
Regards
Maxolous
Max.
QuoteWas the grenade in operation at that time you carried out the test.
not sure what you mean by this, my Grenade / Inductor was NOT in operation, they are just there with open leads.
QuoteYou force it to resonate at your dictated frequency by adjusting wire length of your kacher sec
Well, before i am cutting up any of my secondaries, i just tried 3 different length ones i have to see how they perform.
QuoteI don't think so, they are supposed to be slave to kacher sec. If kacher sec is forceful enough. In this case, I see the push-pull was on. Mind you, the SG only output 2OWatts in most cases.
so they suppose to, but my measurement shows otherwise. Not sure what you mean by "
I see the push-pull was on" as i do not have any push-pull circuitry active.
QuoteIt will matter when it has enough pumping power. Just put the grenade there, don't power it.
more power exiting the kacher does not change its resonance frequency IMO
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.26, 21:13:21
Itsu,
Good try.
1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.
2. Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place
3. Let your grenade be inside your antenna
4. Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.
5. Set your SG to 20V
6. Short grenade inductor
7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.
8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.
9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.
Regards
Maxolous
Max,
Looking at your drawing, i just followed that, so NO Kacher Primary, NO Grenade / Inductor, just the Kacher secondary plus gizmo plus antenna connected.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48083;image)
Quote1. You don't need the kacher pry or in your word inductor on it.
no PRY (Primary) or Inductor present, see my first sentence above
Quote2. Let you antenna and shinyaga, in your word Gizmo be in place
Antenna and gizmo are in place, see my first sentence above
Quote3. Let your grenade be inside your antenna
that's not what your drawing shows
Quote4. Your antenna should have up to 3cm clearance from grenade.
that's not what your drawing shows
Quote5. Set your SG to 20V
why? more power does not change any resonance point
Quote6. Short grenade inductor
that's not what your drawing shows
Quote7. You're looking for were the applitude is at minimum as your resonance frequency.
I did, as that is what's written on your drawing
Quote8. Your kacher sec is not fixed, adjust by cutting or reducing wire to match what frequency you want.
I doubt if that would work as i showed before that the length of the kacher has little influence on the resonance frequency when attached to the Antenna
Quote9. When done, you can use your kacher circuit to confirm the resonance frequency by hanging scope probe 20cm from antenna.
Thats what i did.
Firsts test was done WITH Grenade and Inductor installed (inside the antenna) then i noticed in your drawing that there was no Grenade / Inductor so i removed them.
But this first test result was that the minimum amplitude (resonance point) on the 3 used secondaries was similar as mentioned earlier, all 3 around 1400kHz (1209, 1450 and 1568kHz).
So again, it looks like the Antenna dictates the resonance frequency of the kacher.
I will redo your method later today using the Grenade / Inductor inside the Antenna, short the Grenade (Inductor too?) and use full voltage (20V) on my FG
Regards Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.27, 08:27:02
Max,
Looking at your drawing, i just followed that, so NO Kacher Primary, NO Grenade / Inductor, just the Kacher secondary plus gizmo plus antenna connected.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48083;image)
no PRY (Primary) or Inductor present, see my first sentence above
Antenna and gizmo are in place, see my first sentence above
that's not what your drawing shows
that's not what your drawing shows
why? more power does not change any resonance point
that's not what your drawing shows
I did, as that is what's written on your drawing
I doubt if that would work as i showed before that the length of the kacher has little influence on the resonance frequency when attached to the Antenna
Thats what i did.
Firsts test was done WITH Grenade and Inductor installed (inside the antenna) then i noticed in your drawing that there was no Grenade / Inductor so i removed them.
But this first test result was that the minimum amplitude (resonance point) on the 3 used secondaries was similar as mentioned earlier, all 3 around 1400kHz (1209, 1450 and 1568kHz).
So again, it looks like the Antenna dictates the resonance frequency of the kacher.
I will redo your method later today using the Grenade / Inductor inside the Antenna, short the Grenade (Inductor too?) and use full voltage (20V) on my FG
Regards Itsu
Itsu,
Drawing with grenade and inductor inside might be cumbersome. That was why I explained it.
The test always work, except your 3 Tesla coils secondary are relatively close in windings.
Okay, try again.
Maxolous
Ok, i redid the test Max suggested, now using the Grenade with Inductor inside the Antenna etc. see picture.
Both Grenade and Inductor leads are shorted, and we are using no Kacher Primary.
FG was set to sine wave 20Vpp
I used my 475uH secondary and removed half of its turns and wound the top part of this secondary with wider space between windings, see picture.
This showed that after a few adjustments, i now have a minimum (dip) amplitude at 1899kHz which is close to my Grenade resonance frequency.
I now can easily further lower (fine tune) this resonance frequency by inserting a ferrite rod into the secondary.
So next is to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.
Itsu
Max It looks like Itsu is pulsing his device with HF AC excuse me but that wont work
and your wasting your time if it is.
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.27, 20:37:17
Ok, i redid the test Max suggested, now using the Grenade with Inductor inside the Antenna etc. see picture.
Both Grenade and Inductor leads are shorted, and we are using no Kacher Primary.
FG was set to sine wave 20Vpp
I used my 475uH secondary and removed half of its turns and wound the top part of this secondary with wider space between windings, see picture.
This showed that after a few adjustments, i now have a minimum (dip) amplitude at 1899kHz which is close to my Grenade resonance frequency.
I now can easily further lower (fine tune) this resonance frequency by inserting a ferrite rod into the secondary.
So next is to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.
Itsu
Nice one Itsu,
It seems to me that your kacher secondary gauge is like 0.8mm which is normal. But when expecting to res at high freq. , It is advisable to select higher wire thickness. Then you wouldn't need this spacing you just did on your kacher sec.
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.06.27, 23:10:48
Max It looks like Itsu is pulsing his device with HF AC excuse me but that wont work
and your wasting your time if it is.
Sil
AG,
No, Itsu is not pulsing it. I know you know of this method of Determining kacher sec. res. freq we discussed it a while ago.
He said 20Volts peak to Peak
Regards
Maxolous
It is advisable to use Aluminum conductor for experiment due to cost effect. I usually have then, they are cheaper. When you've gotten what you want, you can replace with copper. It is better than spending so much on copper when you are not sure.
Get them in 0.6mm, 0.8mm and 1.5mm the last gauge will help if you're resonating at high frequencies.
Find attached.
The kacher secondary below is made with 1.5mm the length of coil is 25cm almost 10 inches. This resonates (with shinyaga and antenna) around 1.8MHZ. with this you don't look for the secondary under your primary or kacher inductor, most especially when inductor is wide.
Maxolous
OK Max,
my wire gauge used on my modified secondary is 1mm.
Itsu
So my next step was to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.
This turns out to be not the case.
I see now 2 resonance points, one at 1600kHz (the new kacher) and one at 1800kHz (the Grenade).
So it seems that after installing the kacher primary and / or removing the shorts from the Grenade / Inductor the new kacher secondary resonance point shifted from the earlier reported 1900kHz to 1600kHz.
Seems i still have to fine tune this new kacher secondary by removing additional windings.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.28, 07:26:21
So my next step was to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.
Itsu,
Why I asked the inductor to be shorted was that at real operation of installation, the loop or tank circuit composed of inductor and capacitor is like a short circuit. You already know that series resonance is "acceptor circuit" while parallel resonance is "resistive circuit"
In acceptor circuit, the resistance is small and if well tuned it tends to zero Ohms. Consequently, I usually like to parallel caps to form my capacitance equivalents.
What am saying is that, still leave the inductor short in order not to cause interference until you have your tank circuit in place and operating.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.28, 07:26:21
This turns out to be not the case.
I see now 2 resonance points, one at 1600kHz (the new kacher) and one at 1800kHz (the Grenade).
So it seems that after installing the kacher primary and / or removing the shorts from the Grenade / Inductor the new kacher secondary resonance point shifted from the earlier reported 1900kHz to 1600kHz.
Seems i still have to fine tune this new kacher secondary by removing additional windings.
Itsu
Keep trying it. The resonance frequency of the Tesla with Gizmo and antenna is more important to you if your resonance point of your grenade is already determined which you're tunning to.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Pagl1zg0j4A?feature=share
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.28, 07:26:21
So my next step was to reinstall the kacher primary, remove the shorts from the Grenade and Inductor and see if i have one single resonance peak while measuring the Grenade response.
This turns out to be not the case.
I see now 2 resonance points, one at 1600kHz (the new kacher) and one at 1800kHz (the Grenade).
So it seems that after installing the kacher primary and / or removing the shorts from the Grenade / Inductor the new kacher secondary resonance point shifted from the earlier reported 1900kHz to 1600kHz.
Seems i still have to fine tune this new kacher secondary by removing additional windings.
Itsu
Itsu with all respect to you and Nick your on the wrong track, the Tesla coil is a Phase angle
tx aerial and you need to change it's angle to vertical !
Sil
Max,
using your method again, shorting the Grenade and/or Inductor or not, has no influence on the found kacher secondary / Antenna resonance frequency of 1900kHz nor does installing the (open) Kacher Primary.
With other words, there is a huge difference in found resonance frequency between your method (1900kHz) and my method (1600kHz) which is exciting the kacher secondary via its primary using my FG.
Question is what method is the right one.
Guess i can only test that by installing a kacher driver and powering it up to see at what frequency it self-oscillates.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.06.28, 08:32:55
Max,
using your method again, shorting the Grenade and/or Inductor or not, has no influence on the found kacher secondary / Antenna resonance frequency of 1900kHz nor does installing the (open) Kacher Primary.
With other words, there is a huge difference in found resonance frequency between your method (1900kHz) and my method (1600kHz) which is exciting the kacher secondary via its primary using my FG.
Question is what method is the right one.
Guess i can only test that by installing a kacher driver and powering it up to see at what frequency it self-oscillates.
Itsu
Test to see
Maxolous
Itsu,
Exciting the kacher pry with SG is not efficient except you are going to amplify the SG signal.
Maxolous
Itsu have a look at this pic from Ruslan notice two wound coils apart from
the Grenade coil so what do you get from that set up ?
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.06.28, 11:31:32
Test to see
Maxolous
I bread boarded together a quick and dirty Kacher driver using a 2SC5200 transistor.
Running on 12V @ 200mA, it shows the Kacher / Antenna is resonating on 1734kHz which is in between the two resonance peaks found using both my (1600kHz) and Max his method (1900kHz).
Grenade / Inductor are open, but when shorting them, it makes no difference.
Scope probe is 5 cm from antenna
Itsu
You don't think there is a reason that that's happening do you ? some thing we are ignoring perhaps ?
the other thing is any effect your after will disappear in your scope shot because the scope will have
earth leakage !
Also note verpies post and yours under neath
https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/
Sil
I removed the gizmo and antenna, using the same kacher driver and now the secondary only resonates on 3243kHz, see screenshot.
So the antenna as top load has a huge influence.
Itsu
Oh well done Itsu That's because it's radiant radiation radiating into the grenade which receives and converts the energy all you have to do now is find the best orientation of the Ariel have you tried a split tube in the center ? didn't Memo father predict this early on when over unity started?
Oh well must get on with my solar panels they work great! O0
Sil
Quote from: forest on 2023.06.20, 17:47:52
Guys, what do you believe is the principle of operation of any mentioned here devices? Personally I believe in interaction with Earth magnetic field but maybe there is some human (military?) created source of energy and grenade is just tuned to its frequency ?
Everyone has their favorite pet theory.
You have the Earth's magnetic field (but have you ever calculated how many Joules are in one cubic meter of Earth's field ?), Nick believes in Aether or energy from the ambient, some think it receives RF energy from a nearby radio station, some think it is an electron accelerator, etc...
My pet theory is such that the device does not make sense when there is no slotted metal pipe inside the tube ...or a sausage made out of some special ferrite rings.
Hi verpies,
Hopefully you are doing well. It is good you returned. O0
Gyula
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.01, 07:37:54
Everyone has their favorite pet theory.
You have the Earth's magnetic field (but have you ever calculated how many Joules are in one cubic meter of Earth's field ?), Nick believes in Aether or energy from the ambient, some think it receives RF energy from a nearby radio station, some think it is an electron accelerator, etc...
My pet theory is such that the device does not make sense when there is no slotted metal pipe inside the tube ...or a sausage made out of some special ferrite rings.
Verpies i think it's much simpler than that, and Farest is a comedien ;D
remember the days in the 60s when we mad our own audio amps and to get more noise power
to get twice as much you had to quad the power, it's some thing like that but magnetics
electricity we buy is rather like pissing on the camp fire and then complaining the fuel is no good.
PS Strange I was just thinking about your input just the other day, I must be side kick >:-) O0
Hi verpies, yes, good to see you around.
All,
There is a nice calculator to calculate the many parameters of a Tesla coil secondary / primary / top load:
http://www.classictesla.com/java/javatc/javatc.html
When playing with it using a 37.5m long 0.8mm magnet wire (239 turns) on a 5cm diam. former and a 5 turns / 2.5mm diam. 13cm former primary (with a 690pF cap parallel) it shows the following data:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48407;image)
So we see a self resonance frequency of 3163kHz among many other parameters.
Input data used was:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48409;image)
We can even calculate the effect a top load will have like here where i used a cylinder as our Antenna top load.
I had to adjust the primary parallel capacitor to 2.4nF to get a good match between prim /secondary resonances with these data as result:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48411;image)
We see the resonance frequency has dropped to 1690kHz
Input data used was:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48413;image)
I am amazed by how close those resonance values are to my found resonance frequencies (1734kHz secondary alone, 3243kHz with my antenna connected)
Perhaps a good tool to play around with before building.
Itsu
Verpies:
Long time no see, nor hear, either. Welcome back.
Yes, there are many pet pives, but still no pet self runners.
So, we are still struggling with all this, just the way it was back then...
You have not missed a thing, in case you were wondering. Or maybe I did.
So, I'm waiting for these guys to do their numbers, so we can get on with actual building of replications.
But it seams that no one wants to play, yet, and I don't see how this is going to work out, otherwise. Without an actual device.
And, it may take another hundred years to verify what Tesla said about the Aether, as well. And to ditch, the battery. I'm in no hurry.
NickZ
The moment your Tesla is well tuned that is when the powerful arcing is then directed and drawn inward your grenade. This is when you see little or no arcing anymore at your antenna when touched with your screw driver or metal. There will be beatings( amplitude modulation ) one inside the other but same pattern. "Absorption"
Nice to hear again from old friend Verpies
Maxolous
Who says there is no fish waves, one the carrier (Push-pull), one the intelligent signal(Tesla). "Amplitude Modulation"
Maxolous
Previous to this, there will be synchronising of the Push-pull frequency (sub-harmonic) to the high frequency of the standing wave of grenade. To effect this, there have to be LC resonance at that low frequency.
The current circulating in the Inductor is tenths of Amps at this tank circuit "series resonance" or acceptor circuit.
Maxolous
Here you are 4 standing waves in a tesla coil
Itsu:
You know I was thinking, ( I do that at times), what if the 37.5 or 40 meter size grenade, is NOT what we should be tuning the rest of the device to. As that can vary by location, and coherence to the frequency of the surrounding ambient medium. And besides, who says that the grenade needs to be that long? And, why? Seams to me, (thinking again), that we need to verify that size, frequency and numbers, first. Don't you think? Or the rest of it will be as off as when Akula showed his non working device in Germany. Or can we just assume that 37.5 meters is the magic frequency?
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.01, 20:07:44
Here you are 4 standing waves in a tesla coil
Tesla coil always produce standing waves, no doubt about that.
Maxolous
If we can be meticulous about these to achieve these, before long someone might build a working device again and again
Maxolous
Many persons had achieved 99% of this phenomenal and because they haven't consciously done what they were supposed to do with faith and purpose had missed the whole thing and gone back to square one.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.01, 20:17:44
Tesla coil always produce standing waves, no doubt about that.
This is actually true because antenna builders strive for 1:1 VSWR and TeslaCoil builders strive for ∞ VSWR.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.01, 20:11:05
Or can we just assume that 37.5 meters is the magic frequency?
Frequency requirements are usually functions of other parameters.
For example for a Linac:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif)
The optimal frequency for accelerating the charged particles is determined by their mass, charge and electrode spacing and the voltage amplitude between electrodes.
For NMR, the optimal frequency for precessing the nuclei is determined by the nuclei themselves and the surrounding static magnetic field.
It is very likely that the optimal frequency for your idea is determined by many factors, too. I can't help you to define them because "the ambient" is a very ambigous concept with undefined properties.
BONUS RANT:
Notice that mathematically frequency is the inverse of time,
motion is the ratio of space to time,
energy is the ratio of time to space.
...more here (https://www.veritopia.org/st-units-list.php).
Yes, could be many factors. However, it seams to be that IF the grenade is the base of the rest of the system, there should be an optimal frequency that it should be tuned to. Should be the best most ideal frequency to tune the grenade to, as well as the rest of the system to match. Or not? So, again why 37.meters. No one knows... Assuming of course that it's not NMR, that we are aiming for.
And is why I ask...
NickZ
No one is saying much on how it works except verpies mentioned a tube or wire down the center of the grenade does any one know what that is about and what do you think that does? And Wesley showed Tesla coils with a wire off them at ¾ any one like to comment on that ?
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.01, 20:57:16
Frequency requirements are usually functions of other parameters.
For example for a Linac:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Linear_accelerator_animation_16frames_1.6sec.gif)
The optimal frequency for accelerating the charged particles is determined by their mass, charge and electrode spacing and the voltage amplitude between electrodes.
For NMR, the optimal frequency for precessing the nuclei is determined by the nuclei themselves and the surrounding static magnetic field.
It is very likely that the optimal frequency for your idea is determined by many factors, too. I can't help you to define them because "the ambient" is a very ambigous concept with undefined properties.
BONUS RANT:
Notice that mathematically frequency is the inverse of time,
motion is the ratio of space to time,
energy is the ratio of time to space.
...more here (https://www.veritopia.org/st-units-list.php).
So more to the point what are the red dots floating down the center ?
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.02, 01:27:44
So more to the point what are the red dots floating down the center ?
Charged particles.
Can be ions of air, electrons
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.02, 04:03:59
Charged particles.
Can be ions of air, electrons
Hmm well I wouldn't have thought so in our case! as that's not how it works
since in our circuit electricity is blocked by caps.
Come on you lot help me out here if you want to learn.
Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.01, 19:15:40
Who says there is no fish waves, one the carrier (Push-pull), one the intelligent signal(Tesla). "Amplitude Modulation"
Maxolous
Max,
could you perhaps show us this "Amplitude Modulation" of the Tesla signal by the carrier (Push-pull) on your scope similar as i did here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105056#msg105056
( Which turned out to be an artifact of the scope here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105074#msg105074 )
Thanks, itsu
Here is an Alexee Sergey circuit, Nick Z is your device on page 1003 Dally
wired the exact same way ???
And what cables do you have going through it it looks like a knitting needle.
sorry no intention to offend
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.02, 11:02:55
Max,
could you perhaps show us this "Amplitude Modulation" of the Tesla signal by the carrier (Push-pull) on your scope similar as i did here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105056#msg105056
( Which turned out to be an artifact of the scope here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105074#msg105074 )
Thanks, itsu
Itsu,
I will oblige your request ASAP.
I have one of my Push-pull MOSFETs(IRFP260) burnt this morning. This usually happens if it is not on load. Once fixed, I will show you.
Maxolous.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.02, 00:34:15
No one is saying much on how it works except verpies mentioned a tube or wire down the center of the grenade does any one know what that is about and what do you think that does? And Wesley showed Tesla coils with a wire off them at ¾ any one like to comment on that ?
Sil
The slotted tube, wire, or ferrite toroids down the center of an inductor assembly such as the grenade, forms an asymmetrical transmission line. What use is this one might say well, things can get interesting under certain conditions. For example, the attached sim shows the results of an asymmetrical t-line operating at 1/2 wavelength for example. This is 1/2 wavelength of the t-line parameters not the length of wire.
As can be seen, the rms current in the common of the distributed capacitance shown by IV3 from the t-line inductance is 2x the currents measured at the input and output of the t-line. Why is this? Because the polarities of the conventional current flows into the input and output of the t-line are equal at 1/2 wavelength.
Regards,
Pm
Quote from: partzman on 2023.07.02, 13:17:28
The slotted tube, wire, or ferrite toroids down the center of an inductor assembly such as the grenade, forms an asymmetrical transmission line. What use is this one might say well, things can get interesting under certain conditions. For example, the attached sim shows the results of an asymmetrical t-line operating at 1/2 wavelength for example. This is 1/2 wavelength of the t-line parameters not the length of wire.
As can be seen, the rms current in the common of the distributed capacitance shown by IV3 from the t-line inductance is 2x the currents measured at the input and output of the t-line. Why is this? Because the polarities of the conventional current flows into the input and output of the t-line are equal at 1/2 wavelength.
Regards,
Pm
Hi PM,
That is very similar to STEAP.
The difference is the input is a positive pulse and the line resonates at its natural resonant frequency multiplied by the frequency of the pulse.
Advantage of this can be made by mixing 2 distinct frequencies.
Again 2 distinct pulse lines, 2 mosfets and charge chokes, can be mixed across a coil. This gives a distinct positive voltage across the coil (differential voltage).
This post is in ref:to PMs post, and I think it is in line with this thread as a simpler way of doing things.
Regards
Mike
Itsu,
Here's the carrier (envelope) and the intelligent signal.
And this
The carrier is your LC resonance.
The intelligent is both your high frequency grenade and Tesla sync.
Suffice to say that your grenade is also like Tesla coil..
Maxolous
Please, ignore the cursor reading at top left.
Maxolous
https://youtube.com/shorts/lVoS1g_2hnU?feature=share
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.02, 17:13:49
Itsu,
Here's the carrier (envelope) and the intelligent signal.
Max,
thanks, i see your time base is at 10us/div., so the peaks are at 25kHz (40us) is that your push-pull (carrier) frequency?
I have never seen such a screenshot before, so could you further explain where your probes are at?
Regards Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.02, 18:37:04
Max,
thanks, i see your time base is at 10us/div., so the peaks are at 25kHz (40us) is that your push-pull (carrier) frequency?
Itsu,
This particular grenade res at 1.310MHZ
The the LC resonance is 26.2KHZ.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.02, 18:37:04
I have never seen such a screenshot before, so could you further explain where your probes are at?
Regards Itsu
Since it is broadcasting, the probe should be outside to pick the out going signal.
I do hope we are getting the form now
Maxolous
Max,
QuoteThis particular grenade res at 1.310MHZ
So this is your 1/4 wave resonance of the Grenade?
QuoteThe the LC resonance is 26.2kHZ.
So this is your push-pull resonance frequency?
QuoteSince it is broadcasting, the probe should be outside to pick the out going signal.
So the probe is laying say 5cm away from the Grenade?
What about the Kacher / Antenna resonance frequency? Is it this same 1.310MHz?
If so, would the probe not pick up that signal first?
QuoteI do hope we are getting the form now
As i do not have the push-pull (yoke) running i will not be getting this form anytime soon
Sorry for all these questions, Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
Max,
So this is your 1/4 wave resonance of the Grenade?
Itsu,
Yes
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
I guess you mean kHz?
So this is your push-pull resonance frequency?
Yes, 26.2KHZ .
I will modify that.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
So the probe is laying say 5cm away from the Grenade?
About 10cm, I guess.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
What about the Kacher / Antenna resonance frequency? Is it this same 1.310MHz?
Yes
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
If so, would the probe not pick up that signal first?
This is the result of all signals.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
As i do not have the push-pull (yoke) running i will not be getting this form anytime soon
Please, do and don't delay.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 01:51:20
Sorry for all these questions, Itsu
Not bordered.
Maxolous.
Thanks Max,
QuoteThis is the result of all signals.
OK, I understand, but would / should the kacher / Antenna signal not be a multitude times stronger than the "broadcasting" Grenade and thus obscuring its signal?
Anyway, do you think this AM modulated signal is essential for a self runner?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 08:54:36
Thanks Max,
OK, I understand, but would / should the kacher / Antenna signal not be a multitude times stronger than the "broadcasting" Grenade and thus obscuring its signal?
No, it's a modulated signal so , they are all now one and attain power
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 08:54:36
Anyway, do you think this AM modulated signal is essential for a self runner?
Itsu
Achieve this , next maximize Tesla power to get what you want . Also, it depends on how you arrange your cct.
Maxolous.
QuoteNo, it's a modulated signal
Do you mean you are modulating the kacher?
If so, how do you do that?
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.03, 02:57:01
Itsu,
Yes
Yes, 26.2KHZ .
I will modify that.
About 10cm, I guess.
Yes
This is the result of all signals.
Please, do and don't delay.
Not bordered.
Maxolous.
Err do you mean not bothered by any chance ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 10:19:38
Do you mean you are modulating the kacher?
If so, how do you do that?
Itsu
Geo showed you how to do that in one of his last vids but thats not rthe real problem.
Err Itsu why do you want to modulate it, your already transmitting it of into
space re right hand rule !
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 10:19:38
Do you mean you are modulating the kacher?
If so, how do you do that?
Itsu
Maxolous
Re: Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, device discussion and replications. « Reply #277 on: 2023-07-01, 20:06:29 »
At this point your Corona will cease from being blue to become whitish.
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.03, 11:23:20
Err do you mean not bothered by any chance ?
Yes, thanks for the correction. Keypad suggestion error
Max,
So, your Grenade 1/4 wave length resonance is 1310kHz.
You have a continuously running Kacher / antenna at 1310kHz
The push-pull / Inductor LC circuit is running at 26.2kHz resonance, thus the Grenade also gets pulsed at 26.2kHz
26.2kHz is 1/50 of 1310, so the 50th subharmonic is stimulating the Grenade to run at its 1/4 wave resonance.
These combined signals seem to create that AM modulated HF signal (1310kHz carrier with a 26.2kHz modulation).
The modulation depth is not 100%, but roughly 25%.
Are your Kacher power supply and the Push-pull power supply one and the same?
If so, there might be some interaction / feedback between the Push-pull circuit back to the kacher circuit and/or vice versa.
Do you hear any hissing sounds and / or Radio Moscow (squealing sound) which points to some form of oscillations?
Itsu
So in that case you have just told me no one in this group is doing any thing by the book
or your just doing your own thing great! don't let me stop you carry on. >:-)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.03, 15:34:48
Max,
So, your Grenade 1/4 wave length resonance is 1310kHz.
You have a continuously running Kacher / antenna at 1310kHz
The push-pull / Inductor LC circuit is running at 26.2kHz resonance, thus the Grenade also gets pulsed at 26.2kHz
26.2kHz is 1/50 of 1310, so the 50th subharmonic is stimulating the Grenade to run at its 1/4 wave resonance.
These combined signals seem to create that AM modulated HF signal (1310kHz carrier with a 26.2kHz modulation).
The modulation depth is not 100%, but roughly 25%.
Are your Kacher power supply and the Push-pull power supply one and the same?
If so, there might be some interaction / feedback between the Push-pull circuit back to the kacher circuit and/or vice versa.
Do you hear any hissing sounds and / or Radio Moscow (squealing sound) which points to some form of oscillations?
Itsu
Itsu,
This build is a simple kacher. Top Ruslan 2014 modified. No interruption.
I have also showed that of controlled Tesla.
In simple kacher power source for both are same except you're putting mediator yoke coil which in this case ,no.
There must be hissing sound otherwise no interaction.
The modulation can not be 100% because it's a continuous running system.
Maxolous.
Itsu.
Note.
I didn't bother about ¼wave res. I just worked with were my wound grenade resonated, please.
Maxolous
There is no information about this device you shall look for that has not already been given especially in OU.com and here. only know what you're looking for.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.03, 20:34:35
There is no information about this device you shall look for that has not already been given especially in OU.com and here. only know what you're looking for.
Maxolous
Yes it's all in the two threads some where but it's putting it all about assembling the
jigsaw together correct part in the correct hole unlike some have.
Have you noticed Itsu and Nick ignore me that's because some people get things wrong and things get messed up:D :D :D say no more :-X
Sil
Well, you could say that I try to ignore you AG, but you are pretty persistent with your distractions, up to now.
I am allowing Max his say. He seams to think that he has this down. Even though I don't buy any of it.
Each to his own...
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.03, 22:21:59
Yes it's all in the two threads some where but it's putting it all about assembling the
jigsaw together correct part in the correct hole unlike some have.
Have you noticed Itsu and Nick ignore me that's because some people get things wrong and things get messed up:D :D :D say no more :-X
Sil
AG,
I don't think so, probably for now what you're saying don't catch their interest. Nickz had been mute till you just mentioned him. Probably keeping cool for a while. Let sleeping dog lie.
We are making progress.
Maxolous
Perhaps you'd like to show us, that "progress". Ánd how your simple kacher or controlable TC, can produce a higher output than unity.
I would be most interested. As you seam to state things as if you know. Said the sleeping dog...
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.03, 19:51:50
Itsu,
This build is a simple kacher. Top Ruslan 2014 modified. No interruption.
I have also showed that of controlled Tesla.
In simple kacher power source for both are same except you're putting mediator yoke coil which in this case ,no.
There must be hissing sound otherwise no interaction.
The modulation can not be 100% because it's a continuous running system.
Maxolous.
Max,
it seems we have a slight language barrier here, as some of your answers are confusing to me.
I asked: "Are your Kacher power supply and the Push-pull power supply one and the same?"
your answer: "
In simple kacher power source for both are same except you're putting mediator yoke coil which in this case ,no."
The first part makes me think that's a yes, but the rest confuses me like the "no", what do you mean by that? Also, what is a mediator yoke?
I asked: "Do you hear any hissing sounds and / or Radio Moscow (squealing sound)"
your answer: "
There must be hissing sound otherwise no interaction."
Does that mean you do have this hissing sound, or that you like to have that?
I think any hissing sounds and / or squealing sound points to oscillations in the circuits, which is good when building an oscillator, but IMO bad news if you are building an amplifier which we basically do.
But thanks anyway, i will put up my push-pull yoke to see how that interacts with the rest.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 08:41:50
Max,
it seems we have a slight language barrier here, as some of your answers are confusing to me.
I asked: "Are your Kacher power supply and the Push-pull power supply one and the same?"
your answer: "In simple kacher power source for both are same except you're putting mediator yoke coil which in this case ,no."
The first part makes me think that's a yes, but the rest confuses me like the "no", what do you mean by that? Also, what is a mediator yoke?
I asked: "Do you hear any hissing sounds and / or Radio Moscow (squealing sound)"
your answer: "There must be hissing sound otherwise no interaction."
Does that mean you do have this hissing sound, or that you like to have that?
I think any hissing sounds and / or squealing sound points to oscillations in the circuits, which is good when building an oscillator, but IMO bad news if you are building an amplifier which we basically do.
But thanks anyway, i will put up my push-pull yoke to see how that interacts with the rest.
Itsu
Itsu
The answer is yes.
Am using the same power supply.
The second question is yes, but not too strong hissing at least you will hear sound of the ionisation of the immediate surrounding around the antenna.
Mediator yoke is a yoke coil put between supply and kacher . Some believe it enables interaction between pp and kacher quickly.
Maxolous
Thanks Max,
so the hissing is more ionization, no oscillations.
This mediator yoke looks to me more like a choke preventing the HF from the kacher to get back into the PS.
Why some believe it enables interaction between pp and kacher quickly, seems far-fetched IMO.
Itsu
Max:
Sorry for asking about your progress. I should have known better. Won't happen again.
But, I had thought that you mentioned "progress". Must be another slight language barrier, here.
All:
I have been keeping quiet lately to give you all a chance to build up something, hopefully that works.
And also to openly discuss what does not work, as well.
As I believe that I already know what will happen when you try to match up those frequencies as you are doing.
And you are already finding that out yourselves, which takes some time.
But, unless you build a complete device, you will not know what works, or what doesn't.
And that also takes some time, money, and a bit of work. For those interested, if any.
Max: You are continuing to insult the moderator here, me. I can do without your insults. Last warning...
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 11:17:10
Thanks Max,
so the hissing is more ionization, no oscillations.
This mediator yoke looks to me more like a choke preventing the HF from the kacher to get back into the PS.
Why some believe it enables interaction between pp and kacher quickly, seems far-fetched IMO.
Itsu
Itsu,
Let me show you something you can try. If you wound your yoke coil for mediator like this and connect it like in the pictogram, you would see that the voltage going to your kacher will be 50-110Volts when you switch on your "PP". At the time you connect your kacher by placing it input wire on the one going to kacher, you would see a dramatic increase in grenade output . Am still investigating it.
Find attached , image of connection.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 11:17:10
Thanks Max,
so the hissing is more ionization, no oscillations.
Itsu
Yes please, when so intense it breaks into Corona. That's why you see the blueish flame around Slayer Tesla coil.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 11:17:10
This mediator yoke looks to me more like a choke preventing the HF from the kacher to get back into the PS.
Does it have the same low-pass filtering function as
this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg94012#msg94012)?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 11:17:10
Why some believe it enables interaction between pp and kacher quickly, seems far-fetched IMO.
Modulation by controlled Tesla
Modulation
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.04, 13:51:27
Itsu,
Let me show you something you can try. If you wound your yoke coil for mediator like this and connect it like in the pictogram, you would see that the voltage going to your kacher will be 50-110Volts when you switch on your "PP". At the time you connect your kacher by placing it input wire on the one going to kacher, you would see a dramatic increase in grenade output . Am still investigating it.
Find attached , image of connection.
Maxolous
Hmmm, interesting, i can see why the 24VDC could be transformed up to 50-110VDC when the Push-Pull device is causing the 24VDC to be fluctuating that it becomes a pulsed DC / AC, but that would mean that the 50-110V is not DC anymore, but also pulsed DC / AC.
Feeding the Kacher with this 50-110V pulsed DC (26.2kHz) could explain the AM modulated like signal (26.2kHz) you showed earlier, right?
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.04, 14:21:53
Does it have the same low-pass filtering function as this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg94012#msg94012)?
I dont know, i need to build one and measure it to see how it behaves.
What i can see is that it could act as a transformer, supplying pulsed DC to feed the kacher which would produce this AM modulated kacher signal shown by Max here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105536#msg105536
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.04, 14:31:05
Modulation by controlled Tesla
Max,
new confusion, as this not the simple kacher you were talking about up till now, this is as you mention a controlled kacher / Tesla, (not modulated, but interrupted IMO).
Which one (simple or controlled) do you use?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 15:25:37
Max,
new confusion, as this not the simple kacher you were talking about up till now, this is as you mention a controlled kacher / Tesla, (not modulated, but interrupted IMO).
Which one (simple or controlled) do you use?
Itsu
Itsu,
Am just showing this, if you say interruption it's still okay. It's from a controlled Tesla.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 15:20:24
I dont know, i need to build one and measure it to see how it behaves.
What i can see is that it could act as a transformer, supplying pulsed DC to feed the kacher which would produce this AM modulated kacher signal shown by Max here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105536#msg105536
Itsu
Verpies is right. It's a low pass filter since the yoke as an inductor is in series , the inductive reactance becomes high and blocking high frequency signals. However, as Itsu had stressed ,it also a transformer when push-pull is switching. Hence the high voltage at the other limb of the winding..
By experiment, it is not the cause of modulation. Modulation is brought about by precise matching of grenade high frequency and the frequency of Tesla.
In view of the above, it will be good to put diode in line with kacher input voltage.
Maxolous
I remember seeing Geofusion demonstrating this sometimes ago.
https://youtu.be/qEHKGSLy938
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.04, 16:26:09
Verpies is right. It's a low pass filter since the yoke as an inductor is in series , the reactive inductance becomes high and blocking high frequency signals. However, as Itsu had stressed ,it also a transformer when push-pull is switching. Hence the high voltage at the other limb of the winding..
By experiment, it is not the cause of modulation. Modulation is brought about by precise matching of grenade high frequency and the frequency of Tesla.
In view of the above, it will be good to put diode in line with kacher input voltage.
Maxolous
Thanks Max,
when you say: "
Modulation is brought about by precise matching of grenade high frequency and the frequency of Tesla", with "Grenade High Frequency" you mean its 1/4 wave resonance point, right?
You earlier said:
QuoteItsu.
Note.
I didn't bother about ¼wave res. I just worked with were my wound grenade resonated, please.
Maxolous
So you measured the Grenade 1/4 resonance point (how was this done?), then you tuned the Kacher to be resonating at that same frequency and with the mediator yoke in between the single 24V DC PS
you feed both the Push-pull circuit and the Kacher circuit causing the outside probe to pickup this AM modulated signal.
Itsu
Max,
a quick test showed me that when feeding the kacher with pulsed DC (+5V / +10V @ 20% duty cycle at 26.2kHz) from my FG, i can get a similar kacher output (pick up probe 5cm away from Antenna) as you showed here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105536#msg105536
This screenshot shows both the kacher signal in yellow (1729kHz) and the FG output signal feeding the kacher drive circuit (26.13kHz between the cursors):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48440;image)
So i am not really convinced that the "Modulation is brought about by precise matching of grenade high frequency and the frequency of Tesla", as it seems that feeding the kacher with a pulsed DC input voltage does the same.
Itsu
@Itsu,
This is not the same thing. In my pictogram you saw two signals, one the envelope the other the message.
The envelope is the repeating rate caused by LC resonance while the other is Tesla signal
I got the modulated signal without mediator yoke anyway
Maxolous.
Doesn't the above mediator coil just drive the Tesla coil while the PP one half
is active that would explain why Geo's one mosfet gets hot when using the mediator
coil. It lookes like the Tesla coil need to be active the full half of each one half of the pp
time in that case.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.04, 20:49:24
Doesn't the above mediator coil just drive the Tesla coil while the PP one half
is active that would explain why Geo's one mosfet gets hot when using the mediator
coil. It lookes like the Tesla coil need to be active the full half of each one half of the pp
time in that case.
Sil
AG,
I don't think so. It drives both the PP and TC the same . It doesn't have half circle and it couldn't be the reason why one of Geo's MOSFETS was hot.
Maxolous
That mediator coil bit was something that Geo tried out, at first. But, he never showed it to be getting any more out than in. Nor even to the output my device has shown. Nor did any one of his various versions.
He connected his output to the 3 turn coil circuit, instead of the 28t / output grenade coil.
So, different effects were noticed. But still did not show over unity or self running. Just to be clear.
NickZ
Any one know how to convert an (.MOD) video file to a mp4 or similar video file
on Win 7 with out wasting cash ?
The other thing is your Tesla coil HV gen O volts connected to any other part of the device
there is a warning that that will kill it and you cannot have AC from it like in your wave form.
Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.04, 20:27:39
@Itsu,
This is not the same thing. In my pictogram you saw two signals, one the envelope the other the message.
The envelope is the repeating rate caused by LC resonance while the other is Tesla signal
I got the modulated signal without mediator yoke anyway
Maxolous.
Max,
does my screenshot not show the same; the repeating 26.2kHz envelope (amplitude peaks) and the constant 1729kHz kacher signal?
Anyway, good to know that the mediator is not needed to get the modulated signal, i will see if i can get there too.
Could you please also answer this question in one post earlier:
QuoteSo you measured the Grenade 1/4 resonance point (how was this done?)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.05, 08:30:32
Max,
does my screenshot not show the same; the repeating 26.2kHz envelope (amplitude peaks) and the constant 1729kHz kacher signal?
Anyway, good to know that the mediator is not needed to get the modulated signal, i will see if i can get there too.
Could you please also answer this question in one post earlier:
Itsu
Itsu,
The shape is okay at 26.2KHZ
Which depicts the frequency of your Tesla and rep. rate. One thing is not there, the wave processes inside the grenade. In my case, I guess it is 4330KHZ.
Maxolous
Itsu Oh master and great one
its the capacitor in the 3 turn winding from the yoke to the grenade that controls the resonance
and its the coincidence of the two resonances that have to be in phase.
It should look like this.
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 08:57:40
Itsu,
The shape is okay at 26.2KHZ
Which depicts the frequency of your Tesla and rep. rate. One thing is not there, the wave processes inside the grenade. In my case, I guess it is 4330KHZ.
Maxolous
Sorry Max,
I am confused again, you say:
One thing is not there, the wave processes inside the grenade.Is it visible in your screenshot? If so, could you point me where to look?
Thanks, Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.05, 09:29:37
Sorry Max,
I am confused again, you say: One thing is not there, the wave processes inside the grenade.
Is it visible in your screenshot? If so, could you point me where to look?
Thanks, Itsu
Your confused because your ignoring flamings right hand rule. Sort that out first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5iIQZLdVfU
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.05, 09:29:37
Sorry Max,
I am confused again, you say: One thing is not there, the wave processes inside the grenade.
Is it visible in your screenshot? If so, could you point me where to look?
Thanks, Itsu
Itsu
Rep. rate is 26.2kHZ
Filled in is the 1.310MHZ
I just indicated the high frequency.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.04, 19:31:14
So you measured the Grenade 1/4 resonance point (how was this done?),
Itsu
If you want to precisely measure your ¼wave resonance in a manner that it doesn't stray, you need a current transformer, signal generator, your kacher antenna , your grenade, scope or static meter(Electrostatic explosive meter) and ground.
1. Disconnect your Gizmo(shinyaga) from your antenna.
2. Put your grenade in place
3. Slip your grenade terminal through your CT and short your grenade
4. Connect shorted grenade terminal to ground.
5. Feed your SG to antenna terminals set to Square wave @10V
6. Connect your scope to CT terminals
7. Sweep to detect frequency that gives maximum amplitude in scope or strong indication in static meter.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 11:58:49
Itsu
Rep. rate is 26.2kHZ
Filled in is the 1.310MHZ
I just indicated the high frequency.
Maxolous
Thanks Max,
i was expecting that you would point to those areas, which in my understanding are just artifacts created by the scope display (interference of the traces, see if they stay when expanding the time base), but i guess that's just my perception.
Itsu
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 11:59:33
If you want to precisely measure your ¼wave resonance in a manner that it doesn't stray, you need a current transformer, signal generator, your kacher antenna , your grenade, scope or static meter(Electrostatic explosive meter) and ground.
1. Disconnect your Gizmo(shinyaga) from your antenna.
2. Put your grenade in place
3. Slip your grenade terminal through your CT and short your grenade
4. Connect shorted grenade terminal to ground.
5. Feed your SG to antenna terminals set to Square wave @10V
6. Connect your scope to CT terminals
7. Sweep to detect frequency that gives maximum amplitude in scope or strong indication in static meter.
Maxolous
Great, i will try that next.
Itsu
This method shows a resonance point of my Grenade to be at 1226kHz
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.05, 14:12:09
This method shows a resonance point of my Grenade to be at 1226kHz
Itsu
Itsu,
In as much as your inductor is opened, that's the precise frequency your grenade is listening to.
Maxolous
Itsu,
Work with that. There are simple and precise ways of doing things .
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 15:50:33
Maxolous, hi there are we referring to electro magnetic waves here ? or what ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.04, 13:44:10
Max:
Sorry for asking about your progress. I should have known better. Won't happen again.
But, I had thought that you mentioned "progress". Must be another slight language barrier, here.
All:
I have been keeping quiet lately to give you all a chance to build up something, hopefully that works.
And also to openly discuss what does not work, as well.
As I believe that I already know what will happen when you try to match up those frequencies as you are doing.
And you are already finding that out yourselves, which takes some time.
But, unless you build a complete device, you will not know what works, or what doesn't.
And that also takes some time, money, and a bit of work. For those interested, if any.
Max: You are continuing to insult the moderator here, me. I can do without your insults. Last warning...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.05, 18:19:58
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.04, 13:44:10
Max:
Sorry for asking about your progress. I should have known better. Won't happen again.
But, I had thought that you mentioned "progress". Must be another slight language barrier, here.
All:
I have been keeping quiet lately to give you all a chance to build up something, hopefully that works.
And also to openly discuss what does not work, as well.
As I believe that I already know what will happen when you try to match up those frequencies as you are doing.
And you are already finding that out yourselves, which takes some time.
But, unless you build a complete device, you will not know what works, or what doesn't.
And that also takes some time, money, and a bit of work. For those interested, if any.
Max: You are continuing to insult the moderator here, me. I can do without your insults. Last warning...
NickZ
Nickz,
I saw this post before now and I simply ignored it. What are you talking about, what insult , please.
Maxolous
Max:
Yes, well I can see that you ignore it.
Are you going to continue to tell me what you think I should do, and think?
Just letting you know. You should save it. I guess you don't know what respect means.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 18:35:01
Nickz,
I saw this post before now and I simply ignored it. What are you talking about, what insult , please.
Maxolous
How much is the going rate for a development engineer these days ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.05, 12:48:15
Thanks Max,
i was expecting that you would point to those areas, which in my understanding are just artifacts created by the scope display (interference of the traces, see if they stay when expanding the time base), but i guess that's just my perception.
Itsu
Itsu,
You're right about that , it is artifacts created by the scope. However, in real time the modulation I described was brought about by when the grenade started responding to Tesla's signal. There will always be a time if you haven't gotten it right there will be no modulation.
Maxolous
Max:
Yes, well I can see that you ignore it.
Are you going to continue to tell me what you think I should do, and think?
Just letting you know. You should save it. I guess you don't know what respect means, on every post you made to me.
Do you want to keep posting here, or not?
You call that bad blood...
Thanks. I call that more of your insults.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.05, 21:11:39
Itsu,
You're right about that , it is artifacts created by the scope. However, in real time the modulation I described was brought about by when the grenade started responding to Tesla's signal. There will always be a time if you haven't gotten it right there will be no modulation.
Maxolous
Max,
OK, When i now leave the Grenade shorted or open, re-connect the gizmo and fire up the Kacher, i see a slight peak (scope probe 5cm from Antenna) on the scope when tuning the Kacher with a ferrite bar inside to resonate at 1226kHz.
It seems there is some interaction between the Grenade and Kacher when both are at this 1226kHz frequency.
As i do not have the Push-Pull active, no 26.2kHz or whatever modulation is seen, but i will be working on that to put that into the mix also.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.06, 07:36:51
Max,
OK, When i now leave the Grenade shorted or open, re-connect the gizmo and fire up the Kacher, i see a slight peak (scope probe 5cm from Antenna) on the scope when tuning the Kacher with a ferrite bar inside to resonate at 1226kHz.
It seems there is some interaction between the Grenade and Kacher when both are at this 1226kHz frequency.
As i do not have the Push-Pull active, no 26.2kHz or whatever modulation is seen, but i will be working on that to put that into the mix also.
Itsu
Itsu,
It's okay.
Without proper interaction like this, in full operation grenade o/p will go down when kacher is on because of mismatch.
Maxolous
Itsu:
I find that tuning the kacher or grenade using ferrite, increases overheating when using 24v inputs. So, may not be a good final option.
I also notice that the closer tuning to best output at resonance, the more the coils and components heat up.
Overheating is one of the main drawback of this type of device. Maybe that's why nobody has shown it running their house.
My unloaded grenade output at the rectifier can get close to 1000 volts. Remember that everything changes when the ground line is connected, and it becomes part of the device. I had understood that tuning should be performed including the tuned ground line connection. Geo's device won't even fire up without the ground connection. Mine does not like it either, just won't sync right.
It's curious, but Ruslan has never shown any ringing at all, ever. Makes me think that something may not be right, as there is no ringing even when he places his hand on the grenade coils. So...what's up with that? Could he be faking it? I would not put that past him.
NickZ
You were talking earlier about driving the katcher directly positive pulse. Here is a circuit
that just drives the katcher in a data window in sync with the PP.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.06, 13:17:51
Itsu:
I find that tuning the kacher or grenade using ferrite, increases overheating when using 24v inputs. So, may not be a good final option.
I also notice that the closer tuning to best output at resonance, the more the coils and components heat up.
Overheating is one of the main drawback of this type of device. Maybe that's why nobody has shown it running their house.
My unloaded grenade output at the rectifier can get close to 1000 volts. Remember that everything changes when the ground line is connected, and it becomes part of the device. I had understood that tuning should be performed including the tuned ground line connection. Geo's device won't even fire up without the ground connection. Mine does not like it either, just won't sync right.
It's curious, but Ruslan has never shown any ringing at all, ever. Makes me think that something may not be right, as there is no ringing even when he places his hand on the grenade coils. So...what's up with that? Could he be faking it? I would not put that past him.
NickZ
Nick,
I use the ferrite to tune the kacher secondary only temporary, once i know what is the right frequency i will try to make one without the ferrite.
Yes, heat seems a problem, but that should be manageable once we have reached 5kW output, which is more than enough for some cooling.
Concerning the ground, yes that also is a problem as there are grounds and grounds, but there are claims that even without any ground the device should work, only less efficient.
Not sure what you mean by ringing, ringing where?
Anyway, a fake may still be possible, but if we do nothing we surely have nothing, so we can only try.
Itsu
Itsu:
Agreed. Something is better than nothing...
Ringing, (Radio Moscow). No Ringing on any of Ruslan many selfrunners.
Using ferrite to tune with is fine, but it was not used or needed in any of the shown former tubes.
Possibly due to causing overheating.
Magnetite egg shaped magnets on the yoke core, can also be used to fine tune and increase gain, again inducing additional heating, and current draw, if left there. So it's best to use them only for tuning, as you mentioed.
As I tune for highest output, that brings with it higher loads to the input, and heating as well.
Maybe best resonance and best output is not the best way to tune for.
NickZ
Nick,
ok, Radio Moscow, the squealing you mean, well i think if you have that, then something is wrong as it is a sign of something is oscillating which normally is no good.
Yeah, resonance could be not what we have to aim for, like with the TPU it seems, but there is now so much information that it is hard to find out what is needed and what not.
Itsu
Itsu
I think in most presumed generators of energy, there are several systems of resonance doing specific jobs, in STEAP there are 2.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.06, 20:03:30
Nick,
ok, Radio Moscow, the squealing you mean, well i think if you have that, then something is wrong as it is a sign of something is oscillating which normally is no good.
Yeah, resonance could be not what we have to aim for, like with the TPU it seems, but there is now so much information that it is hard to find out what is needed and what not.
Itsu
That is interesting that you think that the ringing is something to avoid. Most self runners are ringing. Like the "Joule Ringer", and other oscillators. But Ruslans don't ring. Maybe you're right.
But when my device does not ring, it means that there is no sync, and little output. Higher output usually means louder ringing, normally. However, the frequency of the ringing is muc lower than the 18kHz push pull frequency. As I can't hear above 11KHz.
I think that Geo does not tune, the same as I do, as without his kacher also on, the lights won't even light, at all. Depends how he wires it, though. He had much help building his oscillator/drivers from his Serbian friends. His device did also ring loudly, the Radio Moscow sound. I guess that Geo is not checking in lately. He was a member here.
NickZ
Nick those frequency's are dangerous simply because below 20khz electrons or what ever they are go through things and vibrate stuff including you that's why Don Smith used 35khz as that sort of frequency they travel onthe outside of the wire and are free to whiz round free.
Just because Itsu is your hero doesn't mean he is a doctor (or any one else for that mater) of electronics. C.C
No offence intended. Or that I am or know every thing, check it out for your self. O0
Sil
Ok Sil:
I'll keep that in mind. I have not suffered any symptoms as yet.
Perhaps Akula, Ruslan and Stalker should know about that, as well.
Actually, I really like to work with the magnetic non shocking current of the push pulls induction circuits.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.06, 23:21:24
Nick those frequency's are dangerous simply because below 20khz electrons or what ever they are go through things
and vibrate stuff including you that's why Don Smith used 35khz as that sort of frequency they travel on the outside
of the wire and are free to whiz round free.
Just because Itsu is your hero doesn't mean he is a doctor (or any one else for that mater) of electronics. C.C
No offence intended. Or that I am or know every thing, check it out for your self. O0
Sil
Thank you AlienGrey for your comment.
Physics has different opinion.
Only electromagnetic wave whose frequency is over visible light ( shorter than visible light) becomes dangerous although infrared ( that is below visible light)
is vibrating the organic molecules.
https://chem.libretexts.org/Courses/University_of_California_Davis/UCD_Chem_002CH/Text/UNIT_IV%3A_MOLECULAR_SPECTROSCOPY/20.2%3A_Vibrations_and_Rotations_of_Molecules%3A_Infrared_and_Microwave_Spectroscopy
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/6395/frequency-ranges-that-causes-a-hazard-to-humans
However exposure to energy level may be according to inverse square law more evident to the experimenter but EM at lower than ionization frequencies converts its energy to heat.
Solution for that is keep a distance usually few cm more from the source.
Wesley
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.06, 07:36:51
Max,
OK, When i now leave the Grenade shorted or open, re-connect the gizmo and fire up the Kacher, i see a slight peak (scope probe 5cm from Antenna) on the scope when tuning the Kacher with a ferrite bar inside to resonate at 1226kHz.
It seems there is some interaction between the Grenade and Kacher when both are at this 1226kHz frequency.
As i do not have the Push-Pull active, no 26.2kHz or whatever modulation is seen, but i will be working on that to put that into the mix also.
Itsu
I have my push-pull running at resonance with a 570nF series cap to the Inductor having a sine wave of 500V across this cap at 25kHz.
Grenade is open (Fres 1226kHz) and the Kacher is on running at 1226kHz tuned with the ferrite bar and i see the above-mentioned interaction.
But no modulation (due to the push-pull running at 25kHz) is seen on this kacher signal.
I will try some further fine-tuning.....
Itsu
Itsu:
Do you mean no noticible interaction, or sync? .
Not sure what you mean.
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.09, 20:27:54
I have my push-pull running at resonance with a 570nF series cap to the Inductor having a sine wave of 500V across this cap at 25kHz.
Grenade is open (Fres 1226kHz) and the Kacher is on running at 1226kHz tuned with the ferrite bar and i see the above-mentioned interaction.
But no modulation (due to the push-pull running at 25kHz) is seen on this kacher signal.
I will try some further fine-tuning.....
Itsu
I think Itsu is saying he is switching or gating the output of the katcher on and off
at 25khz and then injecting it into the grenade by transmission, but that is unclear and
needs verification how that's taking place. But wouldn't this need to be done on the grenade
output other wise the frequency is no longer in resonance but isn't clear.
Perhaps a flow chart might help explain what he is hoping to achieve.
Sil
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.09, 21:22:19
Itsu:
Do you mean no noticible interaction, or sync? .
Not sure what you mean.
NickZ
Nick,
i am trying to get the same signals as Max showed like here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105588#msg105588
A modulated signal consisting of a carrier signal of 1229kHz (Grenade resonance and Kacher resonance frequencies) and the push-pull signal (25kHz) with the Grenade "open" and the probe laying nearby the Antenna.
He states that if we have the Grenade resonating on the same frequency as the kacher (1229kHz in my case) there is some interaction (which i have, however very slim) and if we then activate the Push-pull on a certain sub-harmonic (50th in my case) frequency a pick-up probe would pick up this modulated signal.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.10, 08:36:55
Nick,
i am trying to get the same signals as Max showed like here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105588#msg105588
A modulated signal consisting of a carrier signal of 1229kHz (Grenade resonance and Kacher resonance frequencies) and the push-pull signal (25kHz) with the Grenade "open" and the probe laying nearby the Antenna.
He states that if we have the Grenade resonating on the same frequency as the kacher (1229kHz in my case) there is some interaction (which i have, however very slim) and if we then activate the Push-pull on a certain sub-harmonic (50th in my case) frequency a pick-up probe would pick up this modulated signal.
Itsu
Itsu,
Your PP should be 24.58kHZ. your signal hasn't matched up because if it does, there will be obvious modulation. That's the point your Tesla will start pumping.
Don't be deceived when they say Tesla doesn't need to be strong, those demonstrating weak signal at antenna when touch with a screwdriver knows that Tesla is grossly absorbed into grenade.
Checkout two of Geo's videos
https://youtu.be/1weV296sjHU
https://youtu.be/vTCaF7R4Z-M
Maxolous.
Max,
i know the Push-Pull should be at a 50th sub-harmonic frequency of the Kacher / Grenade resonance frequencies, so i was tuning the Push-Pull to be around this value (24.8, 25, etc. kHz), but never i saw this modulated signal yet, but as i mentioned above, i will do some further fine-tuning.
Thanks for the Geo video's, but as he has not yet showed a self-runner, how amazing his effects are, it does not necessarily mean he is/was on the right track.
Itsu
If you look at the Alexey Sergeev device he showed running on Overunity and YouTube his grenade was running at 15khz and also push pull and his katcher was self oscillating at 1.5mhz witch does appear to be more practical
but his secret power is not disclosed in that article, and the same with the Akula device.
Sil
I will try and find it, it was some where between Dally 800 and 1200 page
AG:
Can you place a link to that mentioned video, by Alexey.
Those seam like the correct frequencies, to me.
Geo did not show being even close to OU, nor able to self run.
But, he did seam to be on the right "track".
As far as weak kachers go, my simple kacher running on 24v, can produce a one centimeter streamer.
I don't need that strong a voltage, as 10.000 Volts, will fry everything. And it can even light up to 100 watt bulb partially, just from the kacher running by itself, through the grenade. I don't consider that "weak". I am not braging, these are simple facts. Nothing to brag about.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.10, 12:35:06
AG:
Can you place a link to that mentioned video, by Alexey.
Those seam like the correct frequencies, to me.
Geo did not show being even close to OU, nor able to self run.
But, he did seam to be on the right "track".
As far as weak kachers go, my simple kacher running on 24v, can produce a one centimeter streamer.
I don't need that strong a voltage, as 10.000 Volts, will fry everything. And it can even light up to 100 watt bulb partially, just from the kacher running by itself, through the grenade. I don't consider that "weak". I am not braging, these are simple facts. Nothing to brag about.
NickZ
Its here https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/12165/
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.10, 09:35:02
Max,
i know the Push-Pull should be at a 50th sub-harmonic frequency of the Kacher / Grenade resonance frequencies, so i was tuning the Push-Pull to be around this value (24.8, 25, etc. kHz), but never i saw this modulated signal yet, but as i mentioned above, i will do some further fine-tuning.
Thanks for the Geo video's, but as he has not yet showed a self-runner, how amazing his effects are, it does not necessarily mean he is/was on the right track.
Itsu
Itsu,
See if you have resonance at 122.9k or there about.
Point of correction, I edited mine to 24.58kHZ that's the actual 50th sub-harmonic frequency of 1.229MHZ.
Be sure you have two pot on your PP cct. One for fine tuning. This enables you to pick the exact frequency. And one thing is your "CT" in your TL494 board
Timing capacitor should be a very good one , this is in order not to drift away from res. freq. after awhile.
Maxolous
Another point to watch out for Earth around the circuit around between the
three or five turn winding on the PP and any thing else, Or experiment whats
best for your Experiment.
Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.11, 05:58:06
Itsu,
See if you have resonance at 122.9k or there about.
Point of correction, I edited mine to 24.58kHZ that's the actual 50th sub-harmonic frequency of 1.229MHZ.
Be sure you have two pot on your PP cct. One for fine tuning. This enables you to pick the exact frequency. And one thing is your "CT" in your TL494 board
Timing capacitor should be a very good one , this is in order not to drift away from res. freq. after awhile.
Maxolous
Max is this just a tracking frequency ? if so you could just generate your high freq
and devide it down and use a phase lock chip to lock the the smaller freq as a data window
up/ or down eather way would be just electronic locking freq.
ie 122,900/50 = 2458 as in your example
Sil
It is important to note, that the Earth ground line connection will only improve the output so long as there is some resonance in the whole system. If there is no adequate resonance, nothing will be noticed when connecting the ground.
Which is one way to know IF you are even close, or not.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.11, 12:14:56
Max is this just a tracking frequency ? if so you could just generate your high freq
and devide it down and use a phase lock chip to lock the the smaller freq as a data window
up/ or down eather way would be just electronic locking freq.
ie 122,900/50 = 2458 as in your example
Sil
AG,
That's the frequency at which Itsu's grenade resonate. You can not generate any frequency , there is or are freq. a grenade must listen to otherwise it's like what I will describe as winking at a girl in the dark ;D
Maxolous
Maxolous
Sure the only thing the grenade can listen to is the katcher it's a TX device.
If you monitor the output you can use it to make the katcher track the resonance
a few designs do that it's called AFC. a 4046 can do that and correct the phase angle.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.11, 22:10:19
Maxolous
Sure the only thing the grenade can listen to is the katcher it's a TX device.
If you monitor the output you can use it to make the katcher track the resonance
a few designs do that it's called AFC. a 4046 can do that and correct the phase angle.
Sil
AG,
Yes, the kacher is Tx while the grenade is Rx.
The PLL is a good method anyhow, but you must be acquainted with how it works. You must know how to do frequency multiplication or division with it unless you have already made circuit copied from somewhere. The problem I see there is that , you are not going to apply it to Tesla and expect Tesla coil to resonate at your set frequency. You already know that Tesla coil resonate according to turns or wire length. That means , you still will adjust Tesla otherwise, you have to devise a new method.
Another question is if you chose your Tesla frequency and divide by whatever you're dividing with, how do you feed your Tesla frequency into the reference of your chip, because you can't just read your Tesla frequency once and implement . Since the chip works by feedback loop, it must continue to sample your frequency from Tesla. That's the only way to keep the phase angle intact and same in it multiplicity.
Anyway food for thought.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.11, 05:58:06
Itsu,
See if you have resonance at 122.9k or there about.
Point of correction, I edited mine to 24.58kHZ that's the actual 50th sub-harmonic frequency of 1.229MHZ.
Be sure you have two pot on your PP cct. One for fine tuning. This enables you to pick the exact frequency. And one thing is your "CT" in your TL494 board
Timing capacitor should be a very good one , this is in order not to drift away from res. freq. after awhile.
Maxolous
Max,
i know my grenade suppose to resonate around 1229kHz (your method), and if i tune my kacher to that same resonance frequency of 1229kHz i do see some interaction on my pickup probe.
My Push-Pull circuit has 2 pots for frequency tuning and the CT cap is a SMD MLCC cap.
When i tune my Push-Pull to 24.58kHz there is some interaction visible on the pickup probe as seen by the screenshot below.
But this is no modulation as the peaks and dips are not aligned to each other, it's more a superposition of the Push-Pull signal on the Kacher signal or with other words, the pickup probe picks up both the Push-Pull signal and the kacher signal.
I do not get any modulated signal like shown by you.
Itsu
I'm probably wasting my time telling itsu this but a lot of those circuits
arn't workers and the internals arnt in tune (are free running)
The scope shots are gated Locked in a sort of resonance, I perfected the idea
to digitise camera video in a line data window, as you can see it works here as well.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.12, 19:39:31
Max,
i know my grenade suppose to resonate around 1229kHz (your method), and if i tune my kacher to that same resonance frequency of 1229kHz i do see some interaction on my pickup probe.
My Push-Pull circuit has 2 pots for frequency tuning and the CT cap is a SMD MLCC cap.
When i tune my Push-Pull to 24.58kHz there is some interaction visible on the pickup probe as seen by the screenshot below.
But this is no modulation as the peaks and dips are not aligned to each other, it's more a superposition of the Push-Pull signal on the Kacher signal or with other words, the pickup probe picks up both the Push-Pull signal and the kacher signal.
I do not get any modulated signal like shown by you.
Itsu
Itsu
There is interaction, but small. Try checking the Tesla frequency as it is running to see if it is at 1229KHZ.
Maxolous
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.12, 22:55:01
I'm probably wasting my time telling itsu this but a lot of those circuits
arn't workers and the internals arnt in tune (are free running)
The scope shots are gated Locked in a sort of resonance, I perfected the idea
to digitise camera video in a line data window, as you can see it works here as well.
AG,
Do you have a circuit diagram for this.
Can you elaborate.
No knowledge bus lost.
Maxolous
It's not to dificult to sync hf and lf i would usuly use a latch triger but didn't here.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.13, 10:52:34
It's not to dificult to sync hf and lf i would usuly use a latch triger but didn't here.
Sil
AG,
I have seen your cct. but ity not 4046 as described. This is NAND gate in a more simple manner of locking phase and varying frequency of tesla. I have an elaborate one which I use.
It can shift phase
It can change frequency
It can pulse width
It can increase or decrease number of pulses.
Check it out here below;
Maxolous
I assumed you wanted to know how i produced the scope shots
Here is a 4046 PCB idid for Vasic's 041 circuit he published
some 3 or four years back. (it has 2 other boards to it. A pp and
HV & mixer.
I suppose you want the schematic for it I will see if i can find it
I think it was an Igorik design. you might find it under his name.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.13, 19:02:27
I assumed you wanted to know how i produced the scope shots
Here is a 4046 PCB idid for Vasic's 041 circuit he published
some 3 or four years back. (it has 2 other boards to it. A pp and
HV & mixer.
I suppose you want the schematic for it I will see if i can find it
I think it was an Igorik design. you might find it under his name.
Sil
AG,
I see what I was contemplating on; the antenna is picking signal from Tesla for sampling, the pot is to control the VCO( voltage controlled oscillator) I guess.
As I said no knowledge is lost, you can send me.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.12, 19:39:31
Max,
i know my grenade suppose to resonate around 1229kHz (your method), and if i tune my kacher to that same resonance frequency of 1229kHz i do see some interaction on my pickup probe.
My Push-Pull circuit has 2 pots for frequency tuning and the CT cap is a SMD MLCC cap.
When i tune my Push-Pull to 24.58kHz there is some interaction visible on the pickup probe as seen by the screenshot below.
But this is no modulation as the peaks and dips are not aligned to each other, it's more a superposition of the Push-Pull signal on the Kacher signal or with other words, the pickup probe picks up both the Push-Pull signal and the kacher signal.
I do not get any modulated signal like shown by you.
Itsu
Itsu,
I went back to check, I think something is wrong with your setup.
See; a better modulation.
Tesla without PP signal to modulate.
This is like the one you showed , it's clear there was no modulation in yours.
Maxolous
The problem is from your wiring. Earth should be earth for Tesla and PP and above that obey Right hand rule in all connections.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.14, 17:24:56
Tesla without PP signal to modulate.
This is like the one you showed , it's clear there was no modulation in yours.
Maxolous
Hi max,
i don't agree, those are two different signals, yours is modulated (peaks opposite to each other as are the dips, mine has a dip opposite to a peak and vise versa):
Itsu
I made a new kacher secondary, based on a 37.5m length (inclusive leads) of 0.8mm magnet wire on a 5cm diameter cardboard former, see picture.
This bare secondary resonates at 2.054MHz.
In the kacher circuit it resonates at 2.715MHz
With antenna attached it resonates at 1.160MHz
So this last resonance frequency is slightly too low to match the Grenade resonance frequency of 1.229MHz (method proposed by Max).
I will do some further adjustments and measurements.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.14, 20:29:16
I made a new kacher secondary, based on a 37.5m length (inclusive leads) of 0.8mm magnet wire on a 5cm diameter cardboard former, see picture.
This bare secondary resonates at 2.054MHz.
In the kacher circuit it resonates at 2.715MHz
With antenna attached it resonates at 1.160MHz
So this last resonance frequency is slightly too low to match the Grenade resonance frequency of 1.229MHz (method proposed by Max).
I will do some further adjustments and measurements.
Itsu
Itsu.
That's fine.
Adjust while running it until beatings starts if every other things are okay. Once it start beatings. There will no longer be much arcing on ant. because absorption is taking place.
Then, think of how to fully establish your Tesla for maximum output.
Maxolous.
Itsu:
Thanks for the info.
My kacher also runs at around 1,1MHz. So, not too far off...
Interesting that your 37.5 meter kacher secondary runs best at 2MHz, by itself.
Stalker mentions that everything needs to be tuned to the 37.5M grenade. Why, I don't know, yet.
Including the kacher frequency to match the antenna coil frequency. But you find that that may not be possible?
Maybe a different harmonic is needed, instead?
I'm still trying to understand why what Stalker says does not compute. Hard to get anywhere like that...
NickZ
Itsu & Nick so lets ask a question are you ignoring some thing or doing some thing arse about face ?
I mean water looks like petrol hmm but would it power my fuel burning devices ?
think about it.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.15, 05:17:14
Itsu & Nick so lets ask a question are you ignoring some thing or doing some thing arse about face ?
I mean water looks like petrol hmm but would it power my fuel burning devices ?
think about it.
Sil
AG,
Thanks
Phase is everything.
When we adjust Tesla length, we are trying to match phase angle of Tesla with grenades phase angle such as nodes to nodes, anti- nodes for anti-,nodes in their multiple proportion. This is one reason we shift pulses in controlled Tesla , phase lock in other ccts like suggested by " AG" and adjusting Tesla wire length in simple kacher.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.14, 22:12:35
Itsu:
Thanks for the info.
My kacher also runs at around 1,1MHz. So, not too far off...
Interesting that your 37.5 meter kacher secondary runs best at 2MHz, by itself.
Stalker mentions that everything needs to be tuned to the 37.5M grenade. Why, I don't know, yet.
Including the kacher frequency to match the antenna coil frequency. But you find that that may not be possible?
Maybe a different harmonic is needed, instead?
I'm still trying to understand why what Stalker says does not compute. Hard to get anywhere like that...
NickZ
Nick, what i find interesting is that my working frequency (2715kHz without antenna) when in a kacher circuit is somewhat close to the calculated value (3163kHz) of a secondary as caluclated by that java calculator here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105505#msg105505
But that the free standing resonance of 2054kHz (pinging it with a loosly coupled square wave and measuring the ringing with an attached probe) is so much lower.
I guess the probe (3pF / 10M) is loading it that much to cause that.
The antenna has a big (capaitive) influence on the kacher working frequency causing it to further drop in frequency (1160kHz) and thus totally disturbs the 37.5m length resonance frequency.
So to me this means that the 37.5m lengths as mentioned are just a starting point or reference point for building the coils (it also could have been any other random taken length IMO).
Itsu
Itsu:
We have to keep in mind that neither Akula, Ruslan, or Stalker are experts in this field.
And what they thought and mentioned about all this, may just be only their guesses, at the time, instead of fact.
Max may still be under the impression that he needs to add more high voltage and frequency to see any interaction.
But, as I mentioned, this is not a matter of adding high voltage to low voltage, this an INTERUPTION circuit. Nor will he see any useable interaction when placing 500 watt loads on, at all.
And needs to utilize the BEMP to vibrate the surrounding ambient. Without which no extra energy will be found. As we have all seen. No matter how much more voltage you give to the kacher circuit, put a real load on the grenade output and there goes any previous false interaction. You don't believe it, try showing what that interaction can do to the bulb at the output, at higher wattages.
There are such things as real fish waves forms, as was shown by my uploading of Stalkers scope shot, not the fake scope produced ones, but the real ones, instead.
So, now we know that the fake fish forms produced by the scope are nothing at all. As well as the "modulated" scope artifacts, produced by placing the unconnected scope probes next to the grenade. That was never the way to measure the two wave forms signals.
We already have a 37.5M grenade, a 18M inductor, and an Earth ground line matched to 37.5, or 18M lengths. I believe those things are what are really needed, to start with.
NickZ
Nick the main thing I notice is this
Quote Nick
We already have a 37.5M grenade, a 18M inductor, and an Earth ground line matched to 37.5, or 18M lengths. I believe those things are what are really needed, to start with.
End quote
so have you actuly got 18 meters on your inductor winding ? So where did you see
to wind that amount for the inductor ?
Reply from Nick
AG: Well, I tried the 1/4 size (9 meters), first. Then I built the inductor to the 1/2 size, 18M, and it worked better, for me.
So yes, I have an 18M inductor.
As far as how do I know to make the inductor that length, I follow the schematics and follow the instructions. Sometimes...
NickZ
One other thing I did notice on the Tesla coil we found on the internet is all pick up is done
along the length of the tube and the other thing is Nelson R commented on this factor
5 or 6 years back he said it was energy was being thrown out along the tube length
into the environment wasted.
Sil
Yes, but it can also be used to make free energy. Instead of wasting it.
But, these are not like any other devices. These self runners.
Nelson's rigs could not self run. I guess that's why he gave up on it. Like everyone else.
NickZ
I'm not sure that that principle is understood ? We need to connect 2 fields of the same kind that have a potential difference which we are going to exploit. Everything in universe is self balanced, so on our planet. Create a fight between those 2 identified fields, amplify only 1 side using materials properties while make sure the other side have a clear large path to bring its force to fight. Collection must happen on the side where we don't intervene. Our collection is just a diversion path as nothing will be created or destroyed.
Keep it simple. The more transformation we bring to the system the more headaches.
If this post is considered off topic should be deleted and I apologise for inconvenience.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.15, 23:40:39
Yes, but it can also be used to make free energy. Instead of wasting it.
But, these are not like any other devices. These self runners.
Nelson's rigs could not self run. I guess that's why he gave up on it. Like everyone else.
NickZ
What is the reason to make it self run ? Would this change your perception about FE ? Do we need to make, let's say, a hydroelectric generator self running ?
I just wonder if we fell into FE suppressors trap so often and so easy ? Huh
I can't help you if you don't know or care about the benefits of a free energy device.
So just keep paying your bills...
NickZI just used bold to highlight your edit to my post ...
I can't get out of the previous post box, like I could before.
Sorry about that.
NickZ
Quoe from Nick
Itsu:
Thanks for the info.
My kacher also runs at around 1,1MHz. So, not too far off...
Interesting that your 37.5 meter kacher secondary runs best at 2MHz, by itself.
End of quote
I have one like that (some where stored) i used .8 en copper with .7mm fishing wire between
turns simple and 18.7m mtrs on 5 cm dia tube
Maybe it's simpler then we thought ? https://patents.google.com/patent/US11588421B1/en
Quote from: forest on 2023.07.16, 17:36:28
Maybe it's simpler then we thought ? https://patents.google.com/patent/US11588421B1/en
thank you forest.
I explained some of it if you are interested. here: https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/msg580252/#msg580252
Re: Kapanadze and other FE discussion
Wesley
Quote from: forest on 2023.07.16, 17:36:28
Maybe it's simpler then we thought ? https://patents.google.com/patent/US11588421B1/en
The only thing the this scammer did is replacing an elevated plate with an erected pole ... I wonder if US office patent is prepared to have 1 million patent request per week s I'm planning to ask for a patent for every bit on Wikipedia as this muppet did. And I expect to have al requests approved on the spot. If you look up who is this muppet you'll find out as he tried to scam Nike in the same way and he lost all his claims in court.
Would be interesting to find out who's holding the strings of this muppet.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.07.16, 20:32:49
The only thing the this scammer did
Talking about the patent application posted by forest:
I feel great discomfort due to your words
It was a child not a scammer. Patent was filed with help of his parents.
look here :
https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/dlattach/attach/192226/image//
and I was surprised - it was
~4 years old boy. today this kid is ~8 years old
https://d10j3mvrs1suex.cloudfront.net/s:bzglfiles/u/552148/5651d97622e84dc5f8bd23134d35ffaaa53f886e/original/rob-and-kieran-santa-monica.jpg/!!/b%3AW1sic2l6ZSIsInBob3RvIl1d/meta%3AeyJzcmNCdWNrZXQiOiJiemdsZmlsZXMifQ%3D%3D.jpg
of course we don't know how old was the picture .
.
I hope it helps
Wesley
Guys:
This is not a rants thread, so please stay with the topic of this thread.
Thanks,
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.17, 00:16:14
please stay with the topic of this thread.
Thanks,
NickZ
I absolutely agree with you. Thank you for that comment.
Corrected :
Forest delivered solution proved to be right:
https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/msg580256/#msg580256
in accumulation of energy from lightning by
slowing it down..
we deal with electrostatic energy triggered by lightning or e,g. atmospheric 1V
that uses e.g. wind powered interrupter-switch( look at video there ).
Constant current of 0.1Ax10000V=1000W in its form can be in a constant discharge into .....energy storage and processing.
For 10kV we need 100m hill and some
easy trick.Look at 30 seconds of this video: https://youtu.be/2rVdEhyMR6A?t=111
Kapanadze and his first replicator SR used weak spark and ground wire, so was Akula, Ruslan. Stalker.
It is inflammatory or aggressive or insulting sight kicking triggered by member "classic" that makes audience reaction defocused.Wesley
Wesley:
My comment was mainly directed at you. As we already know that you like to write long essays about yourself and your dealings in Russia and other Slavic countries. However if you do this here again, you will be moderated. And any one else that is here to rant. We've heard it all many time before...And I asked you nicely, and you keep it up.
This is a research and development thread concerning Akula, Ruslan, and Stalker replications. Got it...
Glad that you "absolutely agree" with me
NickZ
I didn't mean to disturb but had a flash of idea looking at this patent : what if our Akula, Ruslan, Stalker or similar device is just an antenna capable of retrieving electrostatic energy from air at high rate, what if there is no necessity to go up in elevation like Tesla once said but to construct proper antenna with proper electronic switch ?
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.13, 18:06:39
I have seen your cct. but ity not 4046 as described.
Is the 4046 PLL circuit supposed to affect the push-pull's frequency and phase ?
Quote from: forest on 2023.07.17, 19:37:42
I didn't mean to disturb// what if there is no necessity to go up in elevation// with proper// switch ?
Comfort of Voluntary contributor needs not to experience scrutiny but evaluation.
Lightning as an electrostatic charge created at equipotential of 1km+ that reaches medium ionization level evaluated
in relation to associated EM at TM mode, based on denoted 1936, Seneca Lake Experiment repeated in 2013 and later in 2017- stands now for results published by Sommerfeld.
The electrostatic pump as whole e.g. from application https://www.nuenergy.org/uploads/Plauson-GB157263-6.gif
used in evaluation of SW energy extraction in relation to Kapanadze and/or replicators, subject needs clear conditions for me to fallow
mainly- does electrostatics and EM as well as propagation fit within the boundaries of this discussion?
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on 2023.07.17, 22:04:29
mainly- does electrostatics and EM as well as propagation fit within the boundaries of this discussion?
Wesley
Anything that propels us towards inexpensive Putin-free energy for next winter deserves space either here or in a new thread.
Kapanadze and/or listed replicators, optimal applied conditions tested at 18.6KHz for representing at OUT 50 Ohm as a Standard (30 Ohm for power handling and 70 Ohm for loss.) requires
Impedance Match:
Matching transformer, Transmatch / pi/t network tolerating V/SWR 1:1 ~ 2.5 that compensates energy transfer between an electronic circuit source and load
(or in case of energy conversion between source - conversion device -load) if not applied or not tuned to impedance of DUT by experimenter, causes negative outcome (or testing failure.)
For past 15 years not discussed widely or at all in dedicated forums.
F of Test in both Rx and Tx is low ( applies not only to generators / filters Tesla Coils, Air and/or ferrite based transformers etc.)
-above requirement is a must at any frequency.
Successfully applied in projects handling most of Tesla coils as well, inexpensive now commercial PLC typically present at 500kV - equipment .
https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/msg579717/#msg579717
https://overunity.com/17735/kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion/msg579721/#msg579721
e.g of focused educational material reg. to impedance :
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk/tesla-coils/drsstc-design-guide/secondary-coil/
Note: avoid spark loading if you can unless required by application.-TK design should be seen as Rx !
http://tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Johnson%20-%20Tesla%20Coil%20Impedance.pdf
spec sheet is here:
http://www.signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%2070.pdf
http://www.signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%2060.pdf
http://www.signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%20SC30%20Manual.pdf
https://signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%2090.pdf
https://signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%2090A.pdf
http://www.signalcrafters.com/Files/Model%20110%20Short%20Form.pdf
All of them personally tested as general solution to testing apparatus.
Bench technician comment: "nothing more I need now."
Note: S parameter with VNA can be discussed upon request.
Note: inexpensive EU and GDR/Russian based equivalent of mentioned above also tested and used in lab
can(but don't have to) be discussed in next comment.
Wesley
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.17, 21:42:20
Is the 4046 PLL circuit supposed to affect the push-pull's frequency and phase ?
Why would you think that ?
I think the idea is to sample the the i leg of the push pull and use the vfo in the 4046
to drive the kacher at 50 times the speed of the pp, thus locking phase and frequency
in a tracking mode it would be quite easy to do so.
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.17, 21:42:20
Is the 4046 PLL circuit supposed to affect the push-pull's frequency and phase ?
Verpies,
It's not supposed to effect the Push-pull and phase but to register it operation and make the Tesla resonate in it multiple proportion with regards to Push-pull's nodes to Tesla's nodes . This also means aligning the phase angles of both Push-pull and Tesla's.
" Phase lock"
Maxolous
There were some attempts in the past for the current and the voltage phases from the series LC in the inductor circuit (3 turn secondary / Wima cap) to stay in phase with each other (thus in series resonance) using a 4046 PLL circuit (pushpull / synchronizer) discussed from here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90986#msg90986
I guess verpies is pointing to that.
Max is talking about phase locking the Push-Pull signal with the kacher signal i think.
Itsu.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.18, 09:23:33
There were some attempts in the past for the current and the voltage phases from the series LC in the inductor circuit (3 turn secondary / Wima cap) to stay in phase with each other (thus in series resonance) using a 4046 PLL circuit (pushpull / synchronizer) discussed from here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90986#msg90986
I guess verpies is pointing to that.
Max is talking about phase locking the Push-Pull signal with the kacher signal i think.
Itsu.
Itsu I posted you adocument explaining some of the workings of the device some time May or early june
has it taken you till now to read them. Also on that page I pointed out indirectly a tube you realy ourt to work out
what that does instead of pretending to ignor me and waking up to the facts later on.
Here it is again 7 years on
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.18, 09:23:33
There were some attempts in the past for the current and the voltage phases from the series LC in the inductor circuit (3 turn secondary / Wima cap) to stay in phase with each other (thus in series resonance) using a 4046 PLL circuit (pushpull / synchronizer) discussed from here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90986#msg90986
I guess verpies is pointing to that.
Max is talking about phase locking the Push-Pull signal with the kacher signal i think.
Itsu.
Itsu
Anytime we achieve series or parallel resonance in LC circuit, power factor is in unity . This; no phase angle between voltage and current in the circuit-- XL=XC.
The one we are taking about is phase lock
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.07.18, 09:23:33
:o
Max is talking about phase locking the Push-Pull signal with the kacher signal i think.
Itsu.
Itsu,
Yeah!!!
Maxolous
PLL
It's possible to use a 4046 (use all new devices) and 2 4017 can do it no problem
at 15 Volts with decent edge triggering far cleaner than HC but you could do it
with a HC4046 and a 74HC390 but again you need to know how to take advantage
both chips caracteristics for maximum advantage to get 50/50 sqr wave output.
Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.18, 13:23:01
Itsu
Anytime we achieve series or parallel resonance in LC circuit, power factor is in unity . This; no phase angle between voltage and current in the circuit-- XL=XC.
The one we are taking about is phase lock
Maxolous
Max,
that "
power factor is in unity" and "
no phase angle between voltage and current" is exactly what that verpies designed PLL circuit did, it locked the voltage and current phases at 0 degrees (resonance) by steering via its VCO the TL494 to stay there (in resonance).
Itsu
Guys:
Don't you need to first have the proper interaction going between the PP and the Kacher circuits?
Showing something worth locking them into? As that has not really happened, as yet. Or, does that not matter.
First we go after fish waves, then modulated waves, now also phase locked waves. Kinda seams like a bunch of distractions, to me. How about a little working interaction, for a change...
EDIT:
I am patiently waiting for Itsu's next report. And Ape also mentioned "having something working", video coming.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.07.17, 21:42:20
Is the 4046 PLL circuit supposed to affect the push-pull's frequency and phase ?
Verpies and Itsu; This PLL you refer to would it be too much trouble if you
could post your schematic of the PLL on this thread.
regards
Sil
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.07.18, 18:43:06
This man is being impatient and intolerant, would it not be better to take the lead and deliver to us an effectively working device.
I don't think anything is bad about that!
Maxolous
Well Max, normally I am patient and tolerant, but after watching you "take the lead" for the last several months and still going nowhere. Nor have you presented us anything of value that works, at all. I have come to believe that you may not know what you're doing. Nor have you built any kind of actual replication, after all these years. So excuse me if your credibilities are in doubt.
NickZ
Max:
What do I want? You asked. From the thread I would like to see some advancement. And, I don't agree with most of what you say or have done, so far. Nor see anything positive therefrom. As that is the point of all this.
You would be better to worry about what you should do. Not what you think that I should do.
I have again removed another one of your insulting and distracting comments. And will continue to do do, so don't press your luck.
NickZ
yes thanks Nick, but what you need to understan is
Ape core made a statment so nothing is going to happen till we know what he has to say.
Sil
AG:
Good thing that I have you here to tell me what I need to understand.
Seams like several of you have that same issue.
BTW: Guys: Thanks, for taking the personal bull shit elsewhere.
That is not welcome, here. This thread is about self running devices. Not your personal soap opera.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.20, 23:02:00
To be frank, only by you, Max. You seam to have the same problem as Wesley. Maybe you two should form a team.
AG mentioned something about mushrooms...keep em in the dark...
NickZ
Ok, that's it for this...
Dear NickZ,
AG also mentioned ; in other words "wait for Apecore"
He is cooking the soup and he ' s going to serve you soon buddy!
Though he said do nothing. All you have to do is be at the table , get your hands washed and wait.
Maxolous
Max:
Thanks, I would not know what to do without you guys.
NickZ
I hate to tell you this but there is no such thing as self running device,
Every running device eather uses a battery or Line power to initalise and start things running.
Nick here is a photo from OU thread it's Adrian Guska device what I want to show you
is a black wire running from the Katcher circuit to the push pull circuit, It's porpose
is to turn the katcher on and off so it's not like your device is it ?
Sil
PS we wish you all the best 8)
BTW: To whom it may concern:
I have not banned, or kick out, locked out anyone, ever.
Thanks for your confidence.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.07.21, 19:17:06
It may actually take a while to remove this thread, as it took to start it.
Nick,
I can understand you wanting to close this thread (sadly), but with all of the data Itsu, you, and others have placed in this thread, I hope it will at least be saved for future reference and posted links.
Thanks,
PW
Picowatt:
Thanks for your comment. I do agree with you, sadly. The sad part is that only Itsu was building anything, and the rest are just adding distracting posts that mostly disrupted any real advancements. Something like the blind leading the blind, to nowhere.
I am still very interested in finding the missing link, but, without all the distractions. And the idea was to replicate a working system, or find what is wrong. Not to go off on tangents for months on end.
For now this thread will still remain open, as closing this thread is like cutting off my right hand, to me. After years of research on this project. And I do feel that members here are barking up the wrong tree concerning the mode of operations of this type of device. Yet, I have allowed this to happen so that others can have their say, and have time to test out their ideas, as well. Until things get too personal and lose the objective, of free energy.
As this is NOT a rants thread.
However, this thread will now be continued, as Itsu and others still have much to go, if interested. And so do I.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.07.21, 15:36:31
I hate to tell you this but there is no such thing as self running device,
Every running device eather uses a battery or Line power to initalise and start things running.
Nick here is a photo from OU thread it's Adrian Guska device what I want to show you
is a black wire running from the Katcher circuit to the push pull circuit, It's porpose
is to turn the katcher on and off so it's not like your device is it ?
Sil
PS we wish you all the best 8)
AG:
This has been discussed several times before. The black wire that you refer to is NOT connected to anything, at the time the video was taken. Even though it looks like it is. It's not.
So yes, Adrians replication of Stalkers device is like mine. But, look at his Kacher secondary, and how long it is. So no, it's not just like mine, but similar in any case.
I don't mind doing that myself, at some point, to include the interuptor circuit as well. But, I need a diagram to know just how to do that. I had asked T-1000, but I got no reply from him.
NickZ
I havent got that far with that project in testing triggering the catcher device there are so many different timing circuits who knows witch is the correct circuit, Adrian Guska used the Stalker circuit, but Ruslan shows a different circuit in the device he gave Panov his catcher driver comes from the TL494 the mono stable logic is to alow fror device propergation delays.
Have a look here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCumjgeQXpjz4oaKXa7tZIwg
However there are plenty of circuits on OU thread with various gating circuits.
Ruslan has a few threads to go through on you tube I think you might have deleated the hyper link to
his main info thread world cup no 79 posted a link 'Don smith resonant energy crafting' is one to look out for.
Sil
The thing is that if we take the pulse from the TL494 chip, to turn the kacher on and off, it will be limited to funtion at only that same frequency, and no other frequencies.
So, is that really the best way to sync the kacher with the induction circuits???
As that means that the kacher pulse wil be running at around 15KHz to 20KHz, or so, just the same as the induction circuits. Instead of running in the kachers normal MHz range that its secondary coil is tuned to run at. Therefore, it's no wonder the kacher will be running much weaker, using that system. And perhaps the kacher secondary coil needs to be retuned like Adrian has his, (much longer than normal). To run in the KHz range, instead.
These are some of the things that we need to verify.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.02, 14:26:17
The thing is that if we take the pulse from the TL494 chip, to turn the kacher on and off, it will be limited to funtion at only that same frequency, and no other frequencies.
So, is that really the best way to sync the kacher with the induction circuits???
As that means that the kacher pulse wil be running at around 15KHz to 20KHz, or so, just the same as the induction circuits. Instead of running in the kachers normal MHz range that its secondary coil is tuned to run at. Therefore, it's no wonder the kacher will be running much weaker, using that system. And perhaps the kacher secondary coil needs to be retuned like Adrian has his, (much longer than normal). To run in the KHz range, instead.
These are some of the things that we need to verify.
NickZ
No! not like that! your catcher is a self runner you need to try just gating it with the PP 'OR' gate it
(like a data window) and see how far you get. Not all systems are the same different guys get different results.
See other guy's scope shot
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.02, 14:26:17
The thing is that if we take the pulse from the TL494 chip, to turn the kacher on and off, it will be limited to funtion at only that same frequency, and no other frequencies.
So, is that really the best way to sync the kacher with the induction circuits???
As that means that the kacher pulse wil be running at around 15KHz to 20KHz, or so, just the same as the induction circuits. Instead of running in the kachers normal MHz range that its secondary coil is tuned to run at. Therefore, it's no wonder the kacher will be running much weaker, using that system. And perhaps the kacher secondary coil needs to be retuned like Adrian has his, (much longer than normal). To run in the KHz range, instead.
These are some of the things that we need to verify.
NickZ
I can't resist not commenting on this.
Please, kacher always resonate at it own frequency whether you build it to res. on MHZ or KHZ. When you interrupt it with your push pull signal of say 15KHZ, that will be the repetition rate of the kacher in it own res frequency.
That is to say: a kacher that is running at 1MHZ will do that at the rate of 15000cycles/sec.
Now, this is what we have been talking about, but some persons don't pay any attention. Thus; the push pull signal becomes the envelope and the kacher signal becomes the message as in AM modulation. This is synchronising both signals.
Maxolous
Max:
Again, I'm not sure that I agree.
What I am saying is that if your kacher secondary is not tuned to the right working frequency, your kacher is not going to funtion very well, by just adjusting the frequency trim pots. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. As so far, none of your suggestions have worked out, at all. Perhaps you can show us what you mean, instead of just more opinions.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.03, 20:48:54
Max:
Again, I'm not sure that I agree.
What I am saying is that if your kacher secondary is not tuned to the right working frequency, your kacher is not going to funtion very well, by just adjusting the frequency trim pots. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. As so far, none of your suggestions have worked out, at all. Perhaps you can show us what you mean, instead of just more opinions.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.08.03, 20:47:00
For more clarity, I post the pictogram below. Assuming the kacher in the first pic is ringing at 1MHZ.
Check the second pic ; If the Push-pull signal is 15KHZ and it's interrupting the Kacher, then you would see 15,000 of this "fish' in 1sec .
Maxolous
This
Pic2
These are not artifacts.
I do hope it is clear enough now.
And am sure you got it otherwise forget about it.
Maxolous
Max:
I'm not sure what I see. Nor is the Kacher running at 1MHz.
What are you trying to show? Fish waves?
Anyway, try to show how well any of your ideas work, on a load. Not on mV input.
Otherwise....A scope shot of something running at 414KHz is not very convincing.
As that is not even the normal running frequency of these devices. So, not sure what your point is.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.03, 21:32:04
Max:
I'm not sure what I see. Nor is the Kacher running at 1MHz.
Am only using 1MHZ as an example.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.03, 21:32:04
What are you trying to show? Fish waves?
Anyway, try to show how well any of your ideas work, on a load. Not on mV input.
What do we call this; arrogance or sarcasm , anyway am no permitted to do that .save that for another day. How ever those who wishes to learn had picked some point. This is not an insult but a gentle advice to an old friend.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.03, 21:32:04
Otherwise....A scope shot of something running at 414KHz is not very convincing.
As that is not even the normal running frequency of these devices. So, not sure what your point is.
NickZ
Dear Nick,
When a device like this is running with the Tesla "ON" frequency usually multiplies. You should know this.
Open your heart not your eyes
Maxolous
@NickZ
To clear your mind on the frequency of kacher;
The overall frequency is deceptive . If you want to know the frequency of kacher or controlled Tesla, use your cursor menu from your scope to read that.like in my first pic were I said the kacher was ringing. To know the frequency, use cursor on your scope to know the exact frequency it runs.
If after all these years you are no clear about this. Please, stop making some comments not to discourage the new ones who will like to try something. Because reading your comments is discouraging as if those who posted don't know what they are here for.
In light of the for going, except you are here to do that. That is, to be a club in the wheel of progress.
Maxolous.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.03, 21:32:04
Max:
I'm not sure what I see. Nor is the Kacher running at 1MHz.
What are you trying to show? Fish waves?
Anyway, try to show how well any of your ideas work, on a load. Not on mV input.
Otherwise....A scope shot of something running at 414KHz is not very convincing.
As that is not even the normal running frequency of these devices. So, not sure what your point is.
NickZ
Nick,
Max, is only showing a nice example of an interrupted kacher signal.
His scope is not interpreting the frequency (414kHz) correctly somehow, not sure why, but as i have shown you before, you can calculate the used frequencies shown yourself.
The first picture shows the single ringing of the kacher at M 2.50us, meaning his scopes time base is set to 2.5us/division.
If you take 1 period of that signal (like 2 peaks next to each other) you can see that this single period lasts about 1.5 subdivisions.
As 1 subdivision = 1/5th divisions = 0.5us, then 1.5 subdivision is 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75us which is 1.333MHz (https://www.calctool.org/waves/frequency)
Max his Kacher is therefor running at 1.333MHz, not the shown 414kHz.
The second picture shows the interrupted signal with the time base set to M 25us.
Between 2 interrupts we have 1.6 division, thus 1.6 x 25us = 40us which equates to a frequency of 25kHz (so not 15kHz).
That the kacher signal is in the mV's only, is probably because Max is having his pickup probe some distance away from the kacher or antenna.
So what Max is showing is an interrupted kacher signal running at 1.333MHz interrupted at 25kHz intervals.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.04, 09:21:30
Nick,
Max, is only showing a nice example of an interrupted kacher signal.
His scope is not interpreting the frequency (414kHz) correctly somehow, not sure why, but as i have shown you before, you can calculate the used frequencies shown yourself.
The first picture shows the single ringing of the kacher at M 2.50us, meaning his scopes time base is set to 2.5us/division.
If you take 1 period of that signal (like 2 peaks next to each other) you can see that this single period lasts about 1.5 subdivisions.
As 1 subdivision = 1/5th divisions = 0.5us, then 1.5 subdivision is 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75us which is 1.333MHz (https://www.calctool.org/waves/frequency)
Max his Kacher is therefor running at 1.333MHz, not the shown 414kHz.
The second picture shows the interrupted signal with the time base set to M 25us.
Between 2 interrupts we have 1.6 division, thus 1.6 x 25us = 40us which equates to a frequency of 25kHz (so not 15kHz).
That the kacher signal is in the mV's only, is probably because Max is having his pickup probe some distance away from the kacher or antenna.
So what Max is showing is an interrupted kacher signal running at 1.333MHz interrupted at 25kHz intervals.
Itsu
Thanks so much @ Itsu,
Our man has so much limitations which has become a club in wheel of progress. My voice can't be louder than this. It is disheartening for someone to use his myopic view to disrupt processes.
Submitted
Maxolous.
Itsu: Wow. Thanks for doing all those calculations.
Good thing that all I have to do is lay my scope probe next to the kacher, and it tells me at what frequency its running at.
You know how I love doing math...
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.08.04, 06:09:48
Am only using 1MHZ as an example.
What do we call this; arrogance or sarcasm , anyway am no permitted to do that .save that for another day. How ever those who wishes to learn had picked some point. This is not an insult but a gentle advice to an old friend.
Dear Nick,
When a device like this is running with the Tesla "ON" frequency usually multiplies. You should know this.
Open your heart not your eyes
Maxolous
Dear Max:
No, my frequencies do not vary, at all, when turning on my kacher. Nor have I seen that to be the case.
You can call this hands on results. Not guessing at what "usually happen".
My heart may "open" if you'd show something that actually works. For a change...instead of wrong measurements.
I don't need your "gentle advice". Some actual not invented scope measurement, that we don't need to do the math on,
would help. That is what is disheartning.
NickZ
Chet:
Verpies amoung others have mentioned not being able to post on this thread.
I have done nothing to change things, so can you check on this, please.
NickZ
Again /still there is this warning when hitting the reply button:
Warning: topic is currently/will be locked!
Only admins and moderators can reply.
but as can be seen, one can still add a post to this thread, at least.... i can.
Itsu
Strange goings on over on Overunity was conversating with Wesley when got cut off, now it says the
password is wrong ( but it's not, it's been got at). Can't edit it or update it now >:-)
Ok, where were we?
First of all, as i mentioned earlier, i am not here to do a complete replication of the Ruslan setup.
I tried it twice and failed, so either i am doing something wrong (most probably), or there is something wrong with the used circuit.
But i want to try to further refine some parts of this setup to gain knowledge, both for me as for others.
If it is found to be off-topic, then feel free to mention this and i will remove any post being off-topic.
i was trying to get the modulated kacher output signal picked up by a distant probe laying 10cm from the antenna like shown by Max here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105536#msg105536
My Grenade is resonating at 1229kHz (Max method see here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg105593#msg105593 ) and my new kacher secondary is resonating at 1160kHz (with antenna attached) and when elevated some distance from my bench it could be tuned to resonance at the same frequency as the Grenade (1229kHz).
The Push-Pull was tuned to around 1/50th of the kacher / grenade frequency so around 24.58kHz.
Both the Kacher secondary and the Grenade are made up of 37.5m of copper wire.
But still i could not see the modulated kacher signal Max has shown, nor do i know (nor Max) that this is needed for a self runner.
Anyway, what i tried next is to sync the push-Pull frequency to 1/50th of the kacher signal by using some frequency divider circuit.
Verpies tipped me to use of some TOSLINK optical fiber receiver like this one: https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/info/datasheet_en_20140403.pdf?did=14714 found in some later audio / tuner equipment.
This will completely isolate electrically the kacher signal from the divider circuit.
I found a FCR684205R optical link receiver in my junk box: https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3816994.pdf and found that a normal 6mm red led fed with a 1250kHz sine wave was able to produce a nice square wave pulse at 1250kHz
Firing up the kacher and attaching the red led to a piece of twisted wires with 1 side to a copper tape just beneath the Antenna and the other piece to the base of the kacher drive transistor (or ground) shows a nice lighted up led, see picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48607;image)
When sliding the led into the optical receiver running on 6V, it shows a nice square wave pulse on its output at the same frequency as the Kacher was running on:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48605;image)
I now could further process this galvanic isolated Kacher signal to feed it into a 50:1 divider which will be next
Itsu
@Itsu,
You're not off topic as far as you caught the picture and form of what to do(principle).
There are many roads to the result.
Maxolous
Itsu nice photo have you tried running the Ariel from the Tesla coil up the inside of the Grenade coil and an alloy or foil earth
on the out side with a slit gap in it as not to short circuit it's output, that way your not transmitting dangerous RF all over place or wasting energy !
Just a thought Sil
Itsu:
I was wondering what you were up to. I'm not sure I understand the point, as yet, so I'll wait for your results.
There seams to be many roads to NO results, instead.
We now have lost Apecore, Geofusion, Vidura, and all the rest that had the intention of replicating these supposed self runners. Without the least bit of free energy coming from anyone.
But, I feel that we have been lied to, for gain and profit. And something has been covered up, and hidden from the schematics. So that is what I'm after, still. Out of curiosity mostly. As I already have free electric power for all my needs.
NickZ
I think the mistake is with attempt to replicate device which is the final stage of development with each coil interacting with others in complex way. We simply haven't seen to the original first stage of device which may be all those coils separated with clearly seen interaction. I'm working on it slowly from this perspective ( one segment being Tesla coil and separated power coil)
Just look at Ruslan many self runners. His first device was suppose to be a self runner. And all the other versions after that, all self runners. Having no previous experience at this, no years of hands on tests, not even is he an engineer like Akula is. Well, I don't buy it. Nor will anyone show scope shots and videos of a working device connected to a scope while running itself. Why is that??? Because, something is fishy...
NickZ
Forest:
If you want to see how Akula developed his first and second self running devices. You can find that info by watching his first videos on YouTube. Further tests have been ongoing for some years now. But are now being kept secret to the public, and to these open source forums.
NickZ
The next step was to build a 50:1 divider, so i came across the SN74LS56P divider chip, but this one seems unavailable at the electronics stores i usually buy from, so i needed to buy some from Ebay China, but takes some weeks.
So for the time being, i use 3 pairs of CD4017 / CD4001 chips building my 50:1 divider (5:1, 5:1 and 2:1) after first boosting / buffering the Optical receiver output using a MOSFET driver (ixdd614pi) running at 10V.
As these 3 divider pair circuits each drastically reduces the duty cycle of the pulses, i ended up with a 1/50th pulse of only 1% duty cycle which was useless for further processing.
So i added a Hex Schmitt-Trigger Inverter (CD40106) after each divider pair to flip the duty cycle from say 5% to 95% ending up with a 40% duty cycle pulse around 24kHz (kacher input 1200kHz).
Picture of the divider bread board:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48610;image)
Output signal of the 1/50th Kacher frequency:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48612;image)
Diagram of the used 50:1 divider (LTspice sim included below).
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48617;image)
Next i will add a PLL (Phase Locked Loop) circuit to be able to drive a TL494 (push-Pull) needed for the yoke.
This PLL circuit was designed by verpies some time ago using a 74HC4046 chip to directly drive a TL494 PWM and which i will use now (slightly modified) to drive a TL494 from this divider output signal.
Itsu
That's an interesting circuit I also made a syc divide by 50 circuit it just uses 2 4017 chips and a 4046 and i get an EW 50/50 true square wave out put
it's brilliant without all the other support chips. The 4046 can also be gated by the PP 494 chip directly.
@Itsu and AG,
Nice layouts.
No venture ,no success as I said many roads lead to success here. It's time to think outside the box. That was what the inventors did . They only left us with clues and not the real deal hoping you to join the dots. Those who are still sticking to pictogram on the page should just be there playing and deceiving themselves. Most working devices displayed on page that eventually worked were all modified. The inventors Haven gone through rigorous processes to get his/her inventions to work might not want to serve it to you on the platter of gold. In the course of their toiling, they realized the do's and Don's. Probably, they serve you the Don's which they know might be appealing to you and you might eventually buy it. Which is why we continue to try without any results and them laughing off their ass.
Continue your good work.
Maxolous.
For the PLL i modified a circuit designed by verpies some time ago and was published here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3472.msg62527#msg62527 (use "verpies PLL 2").
As this was designed for phase locking the Voltage and Current of a series LCR, so to force it to stay in resonance, i had to modify some parts to use it in my present setup.
The modified diagram that i use now is here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48622;image)
So we have the 1/50th square wave coming from the divider as input for the PLL and have it locked in phase.
The triangle waveform coming from the PLL pins 6 and 7 is then balanced, shaped and presented to pin 5 of the TL494 which produces the Push-Pull outputs on same frequency as the input and can be used to drive the Yoke.
A video showing the whole process can be seen here: https://youtu.be/ns_IBUZWWUs
We can manipulate the Kacher signal to a specific frequency (within reason) by a ferrite rod f.i., and the yoke signal will follow to stay at 1/50th of that kacher frequency.
Hopefully i can simplify the divider with the new SN74LS56P divider chip when it arrives.
Itsu
Regarding the CD4017 it's a decoded 0 to 9 device each section depends on where the reset is placed
if you want to divide by 5 the reset needs placing on output 6 in order to divide by 5 it's as simple as that
the device also has a carry output which is EW ie a true square wave so if the last device is a divide by 10
just use the carry EW output and you have a divide by 50 ew output simple.
If your using TTL there is another chip with 2 x divide by 5 and 2 x divide by 2 which basically can be
configured as a divide by 50 in that one chip a (double 74HC90 74HC390).
Sil
Nice one Itsu.
Maxolous
Hmm! it's a good idea it's true but it doesn't make full use of chips available for a start the Catcher is running all the time
generating stress and heat gating could be done with the 4046 and you don't need all those op amps and it doesn't take
into account the propagation delay of the gate drivers or the mos FET's and it has no self feed back and you need to have
a self running Tesla oscillator when you could
use the VFO in the 4046.
Sil other than that is the answer to all your electronic problems as it seams !
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.12, 14:22:19
Hmm! it's a good idea it's true but it doesn't make full use of chips available for a start the Catcher is running all the time
AG.
I got your point on this. Kacher running continually is not actually the best option. There must be interruption of kacher by Push-pull .
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.12, 14:22:19
generating stress and heat gating could be done with the 4046 and you don't need all those op amps and it doesn't take
into account the propagation delay of the gate drivers or the mos FET's and it has no self feed back and you need to have
a self running Tesla oscillator when you could
use the VFO in the 4046.
Sil other than that is the answer to all your electronic problems as it seams !
The VCO on the 4046 ,am not sure it can divide by upto 50.
He might still need 4017 IC to do that
Maxolous
From the foregoing, it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla. If Tesla pace is determined by Push-pull , then, you will have interruption of Tesla signal.
Itsu did well by locking the phase perfectly, but not interruption. Hence Tesla runs continually which might not be so effective in this regard.
AG posted one such cct. that can do just that ,
Find attached below:
Maxolous.
Posted layout circuit couple of posts back
Can someone please elucidate the shared attributes between these 3 devices?
(What are the fundamental similarities?)
And why does it seem that one cannot be said to be "better" than the others?
Or, is one of the three devices indeed more worthy of R&D than the others? If so why?
Thoughts appreciated.
EDIT thanks for the explanation Maxolous - much appreciated.
Quote from: Excelsior on 2023.08.13, 00:41:21
Can someone please elucidate the shared attributes between these 3 devices?
(What are the fundamental similarities?)
Akula, Ruslan and Stalker's device if that is what you're referring to, have the same mode of operation and of course they're same device not actually attributed to one person as above because they all replicated it also.
The original owner of this device is Nikola Tesla of blessed memory. Other foremost persons who built a working devices on this principles are Donald L Smith and Teriel KAPANADZE both of blessed memory.
The principle is based on "resonance and synchronization" through this, power can be harvested from the ambient or Aether. This had been proven many times that , there is excess energy in resonance and back EMF when the ambient is disturbed.
In this case we are creating voltage levels, thus ; the high voltage and the low voltage. Impinging the low voltage side with the high one. Both are already in resonance and in proportion to each others in term of frequencies ,then synced.
Quote from: Excelsior on 2023.08.13, 00:41:21
And why does it seem that one cannot be said to be "better" than the others?
The three named above are doing the same thing, one, namely Ruslan seems to have edge over the others on the media because he built a 4kVA unit of it and more current. Mind you he copied from Akula.
Quote from: Excelsior on 2023.08.13, 00:41:21
Or, is one of the three devices indeed more worthy of R&D than the others? If so why?
Thoughts appreciated
No, we only have enthusiast like; Itsu, NickZ, Aliengrey, Geofusion, Maxolous, Apecore,Vasik042,Verpies just to mention few who are willing to take up the challenge and to build which ever version of this device on their work bence, also seeing it as real because there is sufficient evidence of the existence of this device as an over unity device , hence a " self runner"
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.08.12, 16:01:42
From the foregoing, it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla. If Tesla pace is determined by Push-pull , then, you will have interruption of Tesla signal.
Itsu did well by locking the phase perfectly, but not interruption. Hence Tesla runs continually which might not be so effective in this regard.
AG posted one such cct. that can do just that ,
Find attached below:
Maxolous.
Max,
thanks for your insights, but when you say "
it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla", i think that in that example circuit you referred to, there is no relation / sync between the Tesla and the Push-pull.
The Tesla is synced/locked to itself IMO and this locked / synced signal is interrupted (inhibited) via pin 5 in the rhythm of the push-pull signal which has no relation to the kacher frequency.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.13, 08:42:03
Max,
thanks for your insights, but when you say "it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla", i think that in that example circuit you referred to, there is no relation / sync between the Tesla and the Push-pull.
The Tesla is synced/locked to itself IMO and this locked / synced signal is interrupted (inhibited) via pin 5 in the rhythm of the push-pull signal which has no relation to the kacher frequency.
Itsu
Itsu I note your comments but this site is for learning that means we are after results does your work actually produce results please EXPLAIN. as your circuit contradicts your last testament! sorry if offends
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.13, 08:42:03
Max,
thanks for your insights, but when you say "it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla", i think that in that example circuit you referred to, there is no relation / sync between the Tesla and the Push-pull.
The Tesla is synced/locked to itself IMO and this locked / synced signal is interrupted (inhibited) via pin 5 in the rhythm of the push-pull signal which has no relation to the kacher frequency.
Itsu
Itsu,
By your statement above, you equally mean that the Tesla has repetition rate as push-pull? That's modulation.
It will be beautiful if it has anyhow.
Maxolous
Hi Max,
yes, that is what i see when i interpret that diagram.
The kacher is locked on its frequency by the CD4046 (within reason) and is being interrupted (i do not call it modulation) by the inhibit function on the CD4046 chip via the R8 / S1 path coming from the push-pull transistors which is free running via probably a TL494 or whatever, so does not have any relation with the kacher signal.
Please correct me when i am wrong.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.13, 11:13:37
Hi Max,
yes, that is what i see when i interpret that diagram.
The kacher is locked on its frequency by the CD4046 (within reason) and is being interrupted (i do not call it modulation) by the inhibit function on the CD4046 chip via the R8 / S1 path coming from the push-pull transistors which is free running via probably a TL494 or whatever, so does not have any relation with the kacher signal.
Please correct me when i am wrong.
Itsu
Itsu,
There must be a moment of pulsation of Tesla signal. If that be the case , you've killed it. Bravo!!!
Let's borrow the word of an old friend; " show us what it can do"
;DPlease, don't mind me.
Maxolous
Hi Guys.
I've just looked into the moderation system and it says that I locked the topic around the 18th of last month! I did not do this deliberately however it might have been an accident? Sorry for any inconvenience caused. The topic is now unlocked....
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.08.13, 15:48:58
Itsu,
There must be a moment of pulsation of Tesla signal. If that be the case , you've killed it. Bravo!!!
Let's borrow the word of an old friend; " show us what it can do"
;DPlease, don't mind me.
Maxolous
Max,
i quickly build that circuit on a bread board, and the result when using my kacher / antenna is as can be seen here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48638;image)
The yellow trace is the yellow probe laying nearby the antenna, picking up the kacher / antenna signal at 1253kHz
The blue trace is the output of my FG set at 1kHz square wave 10V DC at 20% duty cycle.
The FG is connected to the pin 5 (inhibit) of the CD4046 via the 1K resistor.
As can be seen is the kacher / antenna signal interrupted at the moment the pin 5 gets high.
I do not call this a modulated signal, but rather an interrupted signal and this repetition rate (1kHz now) can be randomly chosen by the FG (or TL494), so has no relationship with the kacher signal.
Regards Itsu
Earlier on on the bottom left i had forward and backward nothing else
Now i have reply. and can edit my posts, strange.
Just noticed Grahams Grump post, well there you go, lets hope that solves that one.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.13, 20:03:47
Max,
i quickly build that circuit on a bread board, and the result when using my kacher / antenna is as can be seen here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48638;image)
The yellow trace is the yellow probe laying nearby the antenna, picking up the kacher / antenna signal at 1253kHz
The blue trace is the output of my FG set at 1kHz square wave 10V DC at 20% duty cycle.
The FG is connected to the pin 5 (inhibit) of the CD4046 via the 1K resistor.
As can be seen is the kacher / antenna signal interrupted at the moment the pin 5 gets high.
I do not call this a modulated signal, but rather an interrupted signal and this repetition rate (1kHz now) can be randomly chosen by the FG (or TL494), so has no relationship with the kacher signal.
Regards Itsu
I'm getting confused here, so witch circuit is it your using here ? i can't be the one i have shown as it doesn't show any lock
can you show the start of the rise and the fall of both channels using your 1khz as lock sync other wise its meaningless.
if we comunicate we can get some where.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.13, 20:03:47
Max,
i quickly build that circuit on a bread board, and the result when using my kacher / antenna is as can be seen here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=48638;image)
The yellow trace is the yellow probe laying nearby the antenna, picking up the kacher / antenna signal at 1253kHz
The blue trace is the output of my FG set at 1kHz square wave 10V DC at 20% duty cycle.
The FG is connected to the pin 5 (inhibit) of the CD4046 via the 1K resistor.
As can be seen is the kacher / antenna signal interrupted at the moment the pin 5 gets high.
I do not call this a modulated signal, but rather an interrupted signal and this repetition rate (1kHz now) can be randomly chosen by the FG (or TL494), so has no relationship with the kacher signal.
Regards Itsu
Itsu,
Now I see, but something is missing.
Your kacher signal runs on the-off time of your low frequency of 1KHZ, it should be on the on-time. Since the duty cycle is about 20% it should be in that period.
Anyway, that's a small issue to you , but very important.
Maxolous
Come on guys, don't blame me that below circuit is not behaving like you would like it, you guys came up with this diagram and this is how it acts.
The CD4046 datasheet says on page 1:
A logic 0 on the INHIBIT (pin 5) input "enables" the VCO and the source follower, while a logic 1 "turns off" both to minimize stand-by power consumption.
And thats exactly how this circuit acts and thats what you get if you introduce unrelated diagrams to the thread without knowing what it does.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.14, 08:14:04
Come on guys, don't blame me that below circuit is not behaving like you would like it, you guys came up with this diagram and this is how it acts.
The CD4046 datasheet says on page 1:
A logic 0 on the INHIBIT (pin 5) input "enables" the VCO and the source follower, while a logic 1 "turns off" both to minimize stand-by power consumption.
And thats exactly how this circuit acts and thats what you get if you introduce unrelated diagrams to the thread without knowing what it does.
Itsu
Nice idea :) but that's just to drive the katcher in his circuit if your going to drive the 494 pin 5 inhibit you need some other stuff to mach
the logic to drive it correctly have a look at Enjoykin's katcher driver he used the enable pin in one of his circuits but it didn't work i think it was on Colors thread but it din't work it didn't lock.
Sil
Itsu:
Why are you wanting to lock the frequency? Does your Kacher signal vary and needs that elaborate circuit to control that? As each of those components is hogging up a bit of the input power.
As I had mentioned, my Kacher is tuned to its best output, using a current transformer, and does not vary in frequency.
I am not blaming any body, just curious about the reason for the circuit.
Perhaps Verpies can try to post now, to see if he can. After Grum unlocked this thread.
Same with Ape, and anyone else.
Thanks Grum for looking into this. Most everyone was getting on my case about me locking them out.
NickZ
Edit:
The reason for placing the pulse in the PP Off time is due to there being less resistance at that point, for the interference circuit to do it's job. This was mentioned by Stalker, as you know, or remember him showing that scope shot that I posted a few times. No ones replication has shown that pulse. Which to me does look like what we need to have.
So, first I think we need to look for the proper interaction, which so far has not been found nor shown working, at all.
And, which without the yoke circuits and the rest of the device will be impossible to find. As the yoke is the heart of this set up. And it is what creates the strong pulses that excite the surrounding ambient, and allow extra energy back into the coils of the device, and out to the load. Without that interaction, no extra energy will be obtained. No matter how many electrons you try to "shake loose" using extreme additive high voltage pulses.
Like AG would say, "sorry to break your bubble". Or, something like that...
Even though many people have tried to show how these devices work, few understand what it takes. And none will actually show it self running, at this time. So it's up to us, now...
No problem Nick. O0
I rarely use the PC these days, I much prefer my iPad for day to day browsing. I just tried an experiment, it seems I can lock and unlock the thread without any text coming up to ask why I'm performing this action.
Obviously I must have inadvertently touched the " Lock topic " icon without even knowing it at the time. My sincerest apologies for any disruption caused.
Cheers Grum.
Grum:
Thanks for the explanation. We forgive you...
However, it let me know what people actually think of ME. WOW...
And, I thank you for that, as well.
NickZ
My idea is to test proper coils interactions rather then proper frequency, I believe it does not matter what frequency you use , the same said Kapanadze. The magic is in coils interactions. Kapanadze said he had power coil which is not directly coupled to others yet placed in correct position to attract energy from ambient. I believe this coil is shorted.
Yet, Kapanadze may have had little to do with actually designing and building himself any of the shown devices.
Or actually knew how and why they worked. He knew and showed just how to turn them on... That was it, especially in his last demo video which only someone trained in electronic circuits could have built. But, Not Tariel...
So, that knowledge is still alive and well. Hidden in secrecy still.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.14, 13:51:05
Itsu:
Why are you wanting to lock the frequency? Does your Kacher signal vary and needs that elaborate circuit to control that? As each of those components is hogging up a bit of the input power.
As I had mentioned, my Kacher is tuned to its best output, using a current transformer, and does not vary in frequency.
I am not blaming any body, just curious about the reason for the circuit.
Perhaps Verpies can try to post now, to see if he can. After Grum unlocked this thread.
Same with Ape, and anyone else.
Thanks Grum for looking into this. Most everyone was getting on my case about me locking them out.
NickZ
Edit:
The reason for placing the pulse in the PP Off time is due to there being less resistance at that point, for the interference circuit to do it's job. This was mentioned by Stalker, as you know, or remember him showing that scope shot that I posted a few times. No ones replication has shown that pulse. Which to me does look like what we need to have.
So, first I think we need to look for the proper interaction, which so far has not been found nor shown working, at all.
And, which without the yoke circuits and the rest of the device will be impossible to find. As the yoke is the heart of this set up. And it is what creates the strong pulses that excite the surrounding ambient, and allow extra energy back into the coils of the device, and out to the load. Without that interaction, no extra energy will be obtained. No matter how many electrons you try to "shake loose" using extreme additive high voltage pulses.
Like AG would say, "sorry to break your bubble". Or, something like that...
Even though many people have tried to show how these devices work, few understand what it takes. And none will actually show it self running, at this time. So it's up to us, now...
Nick,
it is not me that is wanting to lock the frequency of the kacher.
If you read the sequence of posts above, you will see that Max was mentioning that:
"it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull than push-pull be determined by Tesla" (the latter being my 50:1 / PLL setup).
For his
"it is better for Tesla pace be determined by Push-pull", he pointed to a diagram of a circuit doing just that, but that, in my opinion, only locked the kacher in frequency, but without any relationship to the push-pull frequency.
I eventually had to build that circuit to prove to him how it behaved.
Anyway, i will see if i can continue with my 50:1 divider / PLL to sync the push-pull to see if i can create the modulated kacher signal Max was showing earlier in this thread.
With the kacher and push-pull being locked to a 50:1 relationship it should be easier to do.
Itsu
Thank you Itsu:
For hanging in there. Hopefully we can get in touch with some one who knows the ropes.
I am waiting for you guys to get on the same page, so we can compare notes, and all.
Max said, show us how well it works, or something like that...
Sorry, too many rum drinks... Not today ...
NickZ
Egorek circuit Katcher circuit driver.
Here is that 4046 wave form when used correctly as in that circuit.
AG:
How can you tell if the driver is used "correctly"?
Does he show it self running, while connected to a scope? Or the results at the output?
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.15, 16:46:17
AG:
How can you tell if the driver is used "correctly"?
Does he show it self running, while connected to a scope? Or the results at the output?
NickZ
the scope shot can be seen that the data window is in phase with the data window width timing width slot
and the VFO katcher drive frequency.
You might notice the null part makes use of one of the 494 phase output FET drivers unlike the PLL Itsu is showing.
In witch his 494 is run in a slave mode and phase correction might well be rewired due to internal device delays.
That's what it does and it's doing it in that scope shot.
Re asking Igorik for demonstration he is in the spirit world, Or ask Vasik041 for details or a pointer to the original
"That's what it does", does not answer the question. Nor that's what it did, at one time.
What does that do at the output, once disconnecting the supply feed? Or are scope shots enough to know if that circuit allows " correctly" for self running. Scope shots are great, but don't tell the whole story. And we've seen a lot of scope shots, but not a single self runner.
NickZ
AG:
You have your own Don Smith thread, so please compare Don Smiths ideas, there.
Ape has not shown anything new and working. So, I think that he has nothing to show.
NickZ
AG:
If you don't like the way that I run this thread, then don't post here.
If you keep up your insults and distractions you will be moderated. Got it!
Same with Max.
NickZ
EDIT: today Fri Aug 18
Thanks Grum, the same thing that happened with you, now happened to me. Sorry about that...
I removed a POST, and do not know how to even remove a thread. The system may have done the rest.
And no AG, I did NOT ever ask the admin to remove the thread, either.
Thanks again Grum
Cheers,
NickZ
No problem Nick.... O0
However I don't think you'd have been asleep at 6PM. The forum clock is running @ GMT or UTC and at this moment I'm ahead of it by 1 hour as we're currently running in BST ( British summer time ) I believe that you're 6 hours behind me.
Cheers Grum.
Yes, Grum I was awake at 6 Pm. And did remove a post, not the entire thread, as far as I know.
In any case I'll take care of watching out for that in the future. Now that I can see that I have somehow removed the entire thread, without knowing it. My apologies to all.
Still learning how this forum works...
NickZ
Sorry Nick that's outside of my moderation access. Verpies will have to get in touch with admin.
Cheers Grum.
Sorry I just noticed comment
Peter will look into this tomorrow after work
Verpies should also send a note
Ok, guys, thanks for the help.
NickZ
Guys, let me know if you can post now. Verpies, and anyone else.
I have unlocked this thread now, so it should be working.
I don't know what is going on, so please excuse any confusion.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.21, 16:23:37
Guys, let me know if you can post now. Verpies, and anyone else.
I have unlocked this thread now, so it should be working.
I don't know what is going on, so please excuse any confusion.
NickZ
I can post now
Quote from: forest on 2023.07.17, 19:37:42
I didn't mean to disturb but had a flash of idea looking at this patent : what if our Akula, Ruslan, Stalker or similar device is just an antenna capable of retrieving electrostatic energy from air at high rate, what if there is no necessity to go up in elevation like Tesla once said but to construct proper antenna with proper electronic switch ?
What if it's not ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.14, 13:51:05
Why are you wanting to lock the frequency?
I don't think he does. He's just exploring the detail suggested by someone else.
It is as if I told him that this device must have a thick-walled slotted aluminum tube inside the coils to work and him exploring this detail despite not being the author of it.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.12, 14:22:19
...and you don't need all those op amps
So how would you drive the TL494 with the 74HC4046 without these op-amps ?
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.12, 14:22:19
and it doesn't take into account the propagation delay of the gate drivers or the mos FETs
Actually a PLL can compensate for any delays, as it will adjust its VCO to keep the signals at its phase comparator in-phase. If one of these signals is picked up after the MOSFET, then the delay introduced by the MOSFET will be compensated for as well.
I wouldn't do it like that, I think I would have the 494 free running and lock the 4096 to 50 times the 494 and use the output of the vfo to drive the
tesla or HF HV generator. it does work because i have run tests with a SG and scope.
AG:
Then why don't you do that???
Or is this all theoretical?
NickZ
"By the way, now, for a first time you see my apparatus om Houston street, which I used for obtaining oscillations, damped and undamped as well . But it was necessary to state that while others, who had been using my apparatus, but without my experience, have produced with it damped oscillations, my oscillations were almost invariably continuous, or undamped, because my circuits were so designed that they have a very small damping factor. Even if I operated with very low frequencies, I allways obtained continuous, or undamped, waves for the reason that I designed my circuits as nonradiative circuits." : Nikola Tesla
I conclude that the essence was in construction of device which oscillate even if powered by very low frequencies
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.08.25, 18:31:42
AG:
Then why don't you do that???
Or is this all theoretical?
NickZ
Nick if you go back a few posts Max posted a Igorek PLL circuit all you have to do is add a Divider
Itsu was talking about between 3 and 4 on the 4046. You can do that can't you you have a scope and a SG
good luck i'm sure that the 4046 section can be got to work, give you some thing to do. :)
regarding your device, are you going to buy Rick Rich's Don Smith book?
Well can you let us all know the secret once you find out ? ;D
Quote from: forest on 2023.08.25, 19:32:30
"By the way, now, for a first time you see my apparatus om Houston street, which I used for obtaining oscillations, damped and undamped as well . But it was necessary to state that while others, who had been using my apparatus, but without my experience, have produced with it damped oscillations, my oscillations were almost invariably continuous, or undamped, because my circuits were so designed that they have a very small damping factor. Even if I operated with very low frequencies, I allways obtained continuous, or undamped, waves for the reason that I designed my circuits as nonradiative circuits." : Nikola Tesla
I conclude that the essence was in construction of device which oscillate even if powered by very low frequencies
What are you talking about ?
just listen to this vid till the end >>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrAf0AD-lWU
I received my SN74LS56P 50:1 divider chip and was trying to get it to work, but without success.
As can be seen in the attached datasheet, i hooked up a 1250kHz clock signal from my FG (5V DC @ 50 duty cycle) to the CLKA input pin 5.
There was +5V on Vcc pin 2 and ground on pin 4
Qa output (pin 3) was directly connected to the CLKB input pin 1.
But on Qc output pin 8 there was no visible divided signal present (nor on Qb output pin 7 nor on Qa output pin 3).
CLR pin 6 was tight to ground.
The 5V DC input clock signal collapses to 1.5V when attached to the pin 5, so probably this input is too low for the chip to function, but increasing the FG setting to 10V DC makes no difference.
I have 2 chip each behaving similar, so either i have 2 defective chips, or both are counterfeit parts.
I will fiddle around with these chips somewhat longer, but probably have to return to the earlier used 50:1 divider setup.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.26, 20:06:04
I hooked up a 1250kHz clock signal from my FG (5V DC @ 50 duty cycle) to the CLKA input pin 5.
Verify with a highZ probe and your scope that this signal from the FG really swings from 0V to 5V when not connected to the chip.
Sometimes the FG displays 5V but the amplitude is much higher and damages chips. This happens because the FG makes its amplitude calculation based on an expectation of a 50Ω load.
Itsu that 50 to 1 chip is an old chip and its not 50/50 EW output and you need 2 clocks for it and other support chips
Whats wrong with the the 4017 will work if you configure it right you just need 2 nothing else.
Do you want me to list the pin out connections for you ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.08.26, 22:17:25
Verify with a highZ probe and your scope that this signal from the FG really swings from 0V to 5V when not connected to the chip.
Sometimes the FG displays 5V but the amplitude is much higher and damages chips. This happens because the FG makes its amplitude calculation based on an expectation of a 50Ω load.
I measured the 5V pulse from the FG, and it shows in the screenshot in the blue trace.
When connecting this pulse to the CLKA input (pin 5) via a 1K resistor, it collapses as shown in the yellow trace and this is with or without power (5V) on the chip).
So i doubt if the pinout as shown in the datasheet is correct (or the pinout of the chips i have are correct).
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.27, 10:28:58
I measured the 5V pulse from the FG and it shows in the screenshot in the blue trace.
When connecting this pulse to the CLKA input (pin 5) via a 1K resistor, it collapses as shown in the yellow trace and this is with or without power (5V) on the chip).
So i doubt if the pinout as shown in the datasheet is correct (or the pinout of the chhips i have are correct).
Itsu
well you have don it! so will a 74HC390 and might be easier to get but 16 pin
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.27, 09:02:49
Itsu that 50 to 1 chip is an old chip and its not 50/50 EW output and you need 2 clocks for it and other support chips
Whats wrong with the the 4017 will work if you configure it right you just need 2 nothing else.
Do you want me to list the pin out connections for you ?
AG,
an LTspice simulation (attached) of your circuit shows it works, but as a 100:1 divider, so something is wrong still, but close.
Itsu
No; some thing wrong on RS line, ist chip must be / by 5 = 300 khz
you must have it / by 10 is wrong.
I have it on the bench now 1.5 mhz in first 4017 13 to 15 and pin 1 = / by 5 = 300khz on pin 10
Then next 4017 / by 10 = 30 khz works on bench here. gives pure sqr wave
Sorry missed pin 1 output O0
|Sil
note 555 does nothing
Sorry missed out pin 1 to rest chip at 5 on first 4017.
OK, thats better, but now i have a 40:1 divider.
Pin 10 is Q4 which is a times 4 divider, so i need times 5 thus Q5 which is pin 1.
Therefor the Reset moves to Q6 pin 5.
Now i have a 50:1 divider using your circuit, 1250kHz in, 25kHz out.
I will build it now.
Itsu
Ok, that worked out fine, 50:1 divider by 2x CD4017.
Itsu
The best conversation you guys have had in years.
Good to see it...
NickZ
:D u2 is set up as a ring counter, therefor with the reset jumpered to pin 1` as in the circuit diagram
once started all the outputs below q5 and q5 will divide by 5 as it's counting in a ring. So q6 and above will have no output, but the carry will be a sqr wave as is.
regards
Sil
Well done @ Itsu and AG for diversifying . It is high time we think outside the box. Just as said before, the originators only gave us clues and not the exact thing. There are many routes to the stream and this is one. A cascaded decade counter is a sure way to get 50th sub-harmonic frequency as we are seeing now when used in "divide by" arrangements. In order to remove noise, please, connect pin 13 through a pull down resistor of 1meg to the ground and pin 15 through 100k to the ground. This will help from stray switching .
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.08.28, 09:00:12
Well done @ Itsu and AG for diversifying . It is high time we think outside the box. Just as said before, the originators only gave us clues and not the exact thing. There are many routes to the stream and this is one. A cascaded decade counter is a sure way to get 50th sub-harmonic frequency as we are seeing now when used in "divide by" arrangements. In order to remove noise, please, connect pin 13 through a pull down resistor of 1meg to the ground and pin 15 through 100k to the ground. This will help from stray switching .
Maxolous
Hi Max can you scribble on the circuit to show what you mean as both chips behave differently regards Sil
Back to the SN74LS56 chip which i still did not get to work.
Looking at the data sheet PDF attached earlier, i think it might have something to do with the CLR pin 6.
Presently i have it tied to ground permanently, but it might need to be triggered somehow.
As i can not find any diagram which uses this chip i have no example how it should be used and the data sheet is no help either.
I will try some timed pulses on that CLR pin to see if it activates the outputs.
Itsu
74LS56 Key Features & Specifications
Supply Voltage 5V
VIH – High-level input Voltage 2V
VIL – Low-level input Voltage 0.7V
Maximum current allowed to draw through each gate output: 8mA
IOL (Max): 16mA
IOH (Max): -1mA
Clock frequency 15MHz
TTL outputs
Low power consumption
74LS56 Pinout
Pin Name Pin No. Description
CLK B 1 Clock input B
Vcc 2 Chip Supply Voltage
Qa 3 Chip Output A
GND 4 Ground
CLK A 5 Clock input A
CLR 6 Clear pin
Qb 7 Chip Output b
Qc 8 Chip Output c
Partly typing over the earlier linked datasheet does not help here.
What i am looking for is the relationship of the CLR signal compared to the other signals.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.08.29, 18:42:15
Partly typing over the earlier linked datasheet does not help here.
What i am looking for is the relationship of the CLR signal compared to the other signals.
Itsu
If I understand correctly, you are asking the function of the CLR line from the logic table and it is this- The CLR line is active high. IOW, when a logic "1" is on the CLR input, all internal circuitry is cleared or reset. When the CLR is at a logic "0", the clock is able to perform the assigned functions within the chip.
Pm
Partzman, that's what i expected, so i tied the CLR pin to ground, but the chip does not function then (nor with the CLR pin tied to +5V).
Also, when putting several square wave frequencies on this CLR pin it does not seem to function, so i must conclude that this chip is dead (both of them as i have 2!!) or the pinout i use (from the datasheet) is wrong.
I will leave this setup for what it is and use the AG 50:1 divider setup using the 2 CD4017's.
Thanks, Itsu
Itsu could it be the chips are ex equipment as a lot of the 74 LS have become obsolete there is the 74HC390 they work
but you need to add interface level change circuitry. I can't find a stockist of the 74ls56 or any +by 50 chips.
Sil
Here is the 74HC390 circuit it is also divide by 50 it's cheap and has 2 off + 5 stages and 2 + by 2 stages
that can be arranged in any format.
AG,
Thanks for bringing out some facts.
Guys 74HC390 ie a versatile chip.
This is how it works;
1. Divide by 2.
Signal in pin 1
Signal out in pin 3
Ground 2,4,8,12,14,15
Divide by 4
In 1
Out 13
Gnd 2,4,8,12,14
3. Divide by 5
In 4
Out 7
Gnd 1,2,8,12,14,15
4. Divide by 10
In 1
Out 7
Tie 3-4
Gnd 2,8,12,14,15
5. Divide by 20
In 1
Out 13
Tie 3-4
Gnd 1,2,8,14,15
6. Divide by 50
Signal in 12
Signal out 7
Tie 1-9, 3-4
Ground 2,8,14,15
7. Divideby 100
In 12
Out 3
Tie 9-13, 1-2, 4-13
Gnd 2,4,8
Maxolous
It is a double ripple counter. That's two stages of divide by 2 and two of divide by 5.
2,2 5,5
By strapping output into input you can achieve divide by 100
freq/(2*2*5*5) =freq/100
Maxolous
yeah but you need one of the divide by 2 out puts on the output, to get a stable square wave on the output.
Also if you just want divide by 100 a CD4518 can do that or 50 but it's not a square wave. look at it on a
scope it's not stable
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.08.31, 18:24:36
yeah but you need one of the divide by 2 out puts on the output, to get a stable square wave on the output.
Also if you just want divide by 100 a CD4518 can do that or 50 but it's not a square wave. look at it on a
scope it's not stable
I will when am less busy. Anyway if you aren't getting good square wave a flip- flop can arrange that.
Maxolous
Two outputs can be taken if need be
Thanks Max,
works nice in the sim too.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.02, 20:10:35
Thanks Max,
works nice in the sim too.
Itsu
Itsu,
Good to know.
Maxolous
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.02, 20:10:35
works nice in the sim too.
If you need 50% Duty Cycle output waveform, first use the two DIV÷5 sections of the 74HC390 (https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT390.pdf) to divide by 25 and then finish it with dividing by 2 with one DIV÷2 section - see the revised schematic.
If you plan to make yourself a universal circuit for the future that divides by divisors other than ÷50, then you can use one-chip solution like the 74HC4059 (https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd74hc4059.pdf). It can divide anywhere between ÷3 and ÷9999 and can be set with DIP switches without any coding/programming. For precisely 50% Duty Cycles with even divisors add an optional T or D flip-flop at the output, which also can act as a ÷2 divider.
Thanks verpies,
i build this latest 74HC390 divider and it worked great, see picture below.
The duty cycle of the 25kHz output signal when directly fed by the optical receiver is 20%, which is enough for your PLL designed circuit (modified front-end see here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg106113#msg106113)) to lock on to and to present good output signals from the TL494, see screenshot below.
Yellow the 74HC3890 output signal
purple and blue the TL494 output signals (set to 33% duty cycle).
Next i will cut this divider PCB to make it smaller and intergrate it into the modified verpies PLL / TL494 print.
Then either directly drive some MOSFETs via drivers, or use an already working (Vasik design) print by modifying it to accept these new TL494 signals for input.
Things are slow here due to the summer and by the looks of it not only here :)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.12, 19:37:37
The duty cycle of the 25kHz output signal when directly fed by the optical receiver is 20%, which is enough for your PLL designed circuit
The 74HC4046 has 2 phase comparator circuits. I think one of them (the XOR one) requires a 50% duty cycle signal. I do not remember which phase comparator that circuit was configured to use. The choice of wrong one would lead to unpredictable behavior with non-square signal.
Yes, that's correct for PC1, but you used PC2 (pin 13) i that circuit, so that should be good.
From the datasheet:
PC1 is an Exclusive-OR network. The signal and comparator
input frequencies (f i) must have a 50% duty factor to obtain
the maximum locking range.
PC2 is a positive edge-triggered phase and frequency
detector. When the PLL is using this comparator, the loop
is controlled by positive signal transitions and the duty
factors of SIGIN and COMPIN are not important.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.13, 08:30:20
Yes, that's correct for PC1, but you used PC2 (pin 13) i that circuit, so that should be good.
From the datasheet:
PC1 is an Exclusive-OR network. The signal and comparator
input frequencies (f i) must have a 50% duty factor to obtain
the maximum locking range.
PC2 is a positive edge-triggered phase and frequency
detector. When the PLL is using this comparator, the loop
is controlled by positive signal transitions and the duty
factors of SIGIN and COMPIN are not important.
Itsu
yes complicated with out scope shots around the 4046, there is also some thing else I see that tends
to go against the grain i'm surprised Verpies hasn't mentioned it. Also how are you going to sample the HF
section with out protection ? and you wont be able to drive the TTL divider directly as your well aware. Still we are all still learning.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.13, 10:48:12
there is also some thing else I see that tends to go against the grain i'm surprised Verpies hasn't mentioned it.
What do you have in mind ?
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.13, 10:48:12
Also how are you going to sample the HF section with out protection ?
I saw that he was successful with SPDIF optical receiver albeit he omitted the delivery of the light pulses to that receiver by optical fiber.
As I was saying a while back the video was Rick's and I respect his copy right !
all i can say is contact Rick or buy his book.
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.13, 11:10:32
What do you have in mind ?
I saw that he was successful with SPDIF optical receiver albeit he omitted the delivery of the light pulses to that receiver by optical fiber.
Using an optical cable is no problem.
After 3d printing a 5mm led to mini-TOSlink connector adapter it worked the same as before.
Itsu
I don't have a problem with your technique, I look forward to when test what you have ?
Good luck.
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.13, 08:30:20
Yes, that's correct for PC1, but you used PC2 (pin 13) i that circuit, so that should be good.
From the datasheet:
PC1 is an Exclusive-OR network. The signal and comparator
input frequencies (f i) must have a 50% duty factor to obtain
the maximum locking range.
PC2 is a positive edge-triggered phase and frequency
detector. When the PLL is using this comparator, the loop
is controlled by positive signal transitions and the duty
factors of SIGIN and COMPIN are not important.
Itsu
Pin 13 is good for this application. It's the one to keep signals in phase.
Maxolous
Here is a pic layout of it's internal structure.
On another subject that crosses this topic have you ever noticed how crabs walk sidways ;)
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.15, 19:37:09
Here is a pic layout of it's internal structure.
On another subject that crosses this topic have you ever noticed how crabs walk sidways ;)
AG,
Your pictogram refers;
If you look at the low pass filter. If when used the way it is , ithe VCO signal would sway rapidly from side to side before settling down. This might not be okay for our output Mosfet. In order to damper this , add resistor in series to cap. The problem will be solved.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.09.16, 10:10:56
AG,
Your pictogram refers;
If you look at the low pass filter. If when used the way it is , ithe VCO signal would sway rapidly from side to side before settling down. This might not be okay for our output Mosfet. In order to damper this , add resistor in series to cap. The problem will be solved.
Maxolous
thanks Max in my bread board test i think i used a 220ohm, I have re built it on some vero board but not finished it yet (a PLL)
but it should work better with shorter connecting strips.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.08.24, 16:09:52
I don't think he does. He's just exploring the detail suggested by someone else.
It is as if I told him that this device must have a thick-walled slotted aluminum tube inside the coils to work and him exploring this detail despite not being the author of it.
I found a suitable piece of (slotted) aluminum tubing (27cm long, 42mm outer diameter and 3mm thick wall) to fit into my Grenade / Inductor coils former.
I will try to make some measurements in due time.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.20, 19:44:36
I found a suitable piece of (slotted) aluminum tubing (27cm long, 42mm outer diameter and 3mm thick wall) to fit into my Grenade / Inductor coils former.
The narrower that slot is, the better. One Kapton tape thickness would be ideal.
Two diametrically opposite slots are acceptable, too.
mil mm inch
1 0.0254 0.001
Thats very small, i guess i have a 1mm slot, i will try to narrow it somewhat.
Yet, there is NO slotted tubes in any of these types of replications. All the grenade former tubes are empty.
Nor has there been any free energy devices using slotted tube replications, either. At least not with the Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, type replications. High yawn factor, yes
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 01:05:08
All the grenade former tubes are empty.
Instead of making unsupported assertions, post links to videos of working devices with unobstructed views of the inside of the former tubes.
[Err one of the Alxee Sergey devices has such a tube and another on Over unity.com was noticed
with foil it just makes it a tidy winding and Color thread used the earth wire buried in the bobbin
sleeve. The idea is to copy the earth charge!
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.21, 08:08:12
Instead of making unsupported assertions, post links to videos of working devices with unobstructed views of the inside of the former tubes.
Verpies: As you consider my statement as "unsopportive assertion", it is you that needs to show a working free energy device needing such a split tube to function. I have never seen one. At least not in the Akula, Ruslan, type of devices. They are All air cores. Look for yourself.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 12:57:45
Verpies: As you consider my statement as "unsopportive assertion",
Not "unsopportive" but "unsupported"
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 12:57:45
... it is you that needs to show a working free energy device needing such a split tube to function.
No, because I have
not made such assertion in this thread.
It is you who wrote this assertion:
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 01:05:08
All the grenade former tubes are empty.
...without any evidence to support this, such as video links to working devices with unobstructed views of the inside of the former tubes.
Furthermore, notice that you have made this assertion in the context of your critique of Itsu's experiment in this thread, which does not fit you narrative.
So if you want your assertion to stand then you will have to provide evidence for it.
Verpies:
I don't need to continue on with this. Or prove anything because you say so.
Nor, do I need to be told what to do, in your opinion. You can however make suggestions, instead.
Look for yourself, if you don't believe me.
Air cores... on all Akula, Ruslan, Stalker devices, which use a Kacher, Yoke/Grenade system. My statement stands.
Or ask Itsu about that, as you don't seam to trust what I've mentioned. I'll leave you in good hands with him, as well.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 15:10:32
I don't need to continue on with this. Or prove anything because you say so.
So stop making unsupported assertions like: "all grenade former tubes are empty".
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 15:10:32
Nor, do I need to be told what to do, in your opinion.
I would debate this. For starters I was absent from this forum for the last year and
In my absence, I could not mislead anyone yet you have not made any progress towards a working device, nor have you developed a plausible principle of operation.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 15:10:32
You can however make suggestions, instead. Look for yourself, if you don't believe me.
Yes, I can and I do make suggestions to improve certain parameters of the device, but I do not make unsupported blanket assertions like you do: "all grenade former tubes are empty" ...or vice versa.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 15:10:32
Air cores... on all Akula, Ruslan, Stalker devices, which use a Kacher, Yoke/Grenade system.
Show me.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 15:10:32
Or ask Itsu about that.
Itsu is open to try all possibilities - you however, appear to squash any attempt at experimentation that does not support your cherished narrative, as you have just demonstrated with you reply #570 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg107095#msg107095) after Itsu put a slotted aluminum pipe in his grenade former tube.
Verpies:
Fine, I'll be waiting for the results.
For those guys that have been following up on what has and has not been done, won't need the "show me" attitude.
As they already know that what I mentioned is true. You obviously don't. So look for yourself, as I said, if interested.
Not my job...to show you. You are not asking, you are demanding. So, good luck with that. Show yourself...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 16:19:02
For those guys that have been following up on what has and has not been done, won't need the "show me" attitude.
What guys ? Anyone cares to speak up ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 16:19:02
As they already know that what I mentioned is true.
Are you speaking for the silent majority ? Is it an argumentum ad numerum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 16:19:02
Not my job...to show you.
It is your job because, you made an unsupported blanket statement and I challenged its veracity.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 16:19:02
You are not asking, you are demanding.
So what? Authors of unsupported blanket statements deserve that, especially when challenged.
You do not have the right not to be offended.
Verpies:
If I were you, I would not come to my thread with your demands.
You may find that that will not work with me, and you may also find your posts "deserve" to be deleted, by me.
Understand???
So, don't push your luck, buddy.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 17:09:09
If I were you, I would not come to my thread with your demands.
You may find that that will not work with me, and you may find your posts deleted. Understand???
But if you delete my posts, I will just repost them so why not ban me altogether ?
Then you will have one less guy to challenge your beliefs. You will be able to go around critiquing experiments that do not agree with your theory of operation. ...but wait, you don't have one, do you?
Verpies:
I hope that you have lots of time, but, I don't. So go for it, if you really want to be like this!!?
Ok, then. Bring it on...
Those that bring shit to the table, will know what's for dinner.
The only reason that I don't ban you altogether, is still unknown. Hoping that your attitude may improve, I guess.
I'm not your enemy. Tough guy...but, don't tell me what to do or any more of your insults. Prove me wrong...if you can.
Or cut the personal crap... that is not permitted here, or do you really want me to ban you altogether? It has taken some effort even to get you here, remember? I do want you here, so please stop this personal BS.
NickZ
@Nickz, I am sorry to bother you, but if you and others already have explored all ways, what would be your approach to go further ?
I wonder if you can imagine your setup (as you build it) as a cascade of self resonant transformers which just amplify standing waves and if wire length used is equal to 1/2 or multiple of wave length, corresponding frequency that you have at output of signal generator.
If everything is correct you just need to disconnect 1 wire to have standing waves in your primary. Have a look at Arie deGeus and you will understand what I am speaking about.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.21, 19:52:11
@Nickz, I am sorry to bother you, but if you and others already have explored all ways, what would be your approach to go further ?
I wonder if you can imagine your setup (as you build it) as a cascade of self resonant transformers which just amplify standing waves and if wire length used is equal to 1/2 or multiple of wave length, corresponding frequency that you have at output of signal generator.
If everything is correct you just need to disconnect 1 wire to have standing waves in your primary. Have a look at Arie deGeus and you will understand what I am speaking about.
have you got a link ? any way how can Nick have tried any thing if he and others don't have a clue about any thing to do with what they are looking for :D
Thanks AG:
Good thing that you know how to build a self runner.
Perhaps you would like to show us how well it works.
And perhaps you can also cut the personal shit, so I don't have more of your posts to have to delete.
What a peanut gallery we have here... All I'm concerned about is tests and research towards a self runner.
Not this soap opera.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.21, 20:16:31
have you got a link ? any way how can Nick have tried any thing if he and others don't have a clue about any thing to do with what they are looking for
I am here to test and research this type of device. It is not easy pickings nor cheap fun.
But, there seams to be guys here that are into other aspects of this project. And keep bringing personal opinions as to my and others work, to disprove everything mentioned. As Verpies is trying to do, now. Not appreciated.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 20:48:42
But, there seams to be guys here that are into other aspects of this project. And keep bringing personal opinions as to my and others work, to disprove everything mentioned. As Verpies is trying to do, now.
No it is you who is against any line of experimentation that does not align with you ephemeral preconceived notions about the operating principle of this device....such as the reactions in that slotted metal tube.
Why does it bother you so much that Itsu is trying something different than that which you've been trying unsuccessfully for years?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 20:29:06
Thanks AG:
Good thing that you know how to build a self runner.
Perhaps you would like to show us how well it works.
And perhaps you can also cut the personal shit, so I don't have more of your posts to have to delete.
What a peanut gallery we have here... All I'm concerned about is tests and research towards a self runner.
Not this soap opera.
NickZ
thanks for the encouragement but I'm not that stupid
Verpies:
Nothing that Itsu does bothers me. And, I understand his reasonings.
I wish that you would relax and get off my back though. Or are you getting off on this, sir??? You are being pretty rude.
And I would really like to get back to what I'm here for, without any further interruptions, or insults from you.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 22:37:16
I would really like to get back to what I'm here for, without any further interruptions, or insults from you.
NickZ
What is professor Nick here for?
Maxolous
Keep guessing Max. Maybe some day you'll get it. But, I'll give you a clue, it's not fish waves, modulated waves, split copper tubes, or shaking electrons loose, with HV, as you may think.
What are you here for??? All you've mentioned and had itsu help you with has resulted in nothing, at all.
I am not blaming any one, but some are blaming me. For what???
You want to play with split tubes now, well go for it. Don't mind me.
Maybe Verpies will finally make something that will surprise us all, with his free energy ideas, after all these years.
That was what I was hoping for, and was the reason I helped him get onto this thread. My mistake.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.21, 20:16:31
have you got a link ? any way how can Nick have tried any thing if he and others don't have a clue about any thing to do with what they are looking for :D
I will just ignore your mean comment. Please see attached screenshots.
A lot of people are afraid to use standing wave as mainstream science and education systems teach that we need to avoid them as they are dangerous and will destroy our devices or circuitry (which is true, if not correct use in a proper manner).
So, standing wave will double the voltage and adding more capacity to the capacitor next to unconnected end will double the frequency, facilitating more electricity extraction increasing efficiency.
We need to understand that there is no magic solution where something will just pour energy in our systems and we need to create more or stronger disturbance in order to let environment to match and balance, while we not going to let balance happening by harvesting what is added by environment ... to get a continuous supply for as long as we maintain excitation/disturbance.
I hope this is add some clearance and help.
Later edit: this little trick is so easy to hide in Don Smith, Kapanadze etc were a fake connection is shown.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 23:08:17
I am not blaming any one, but some are blaming me. For what???
You asked for it, so there you go:
I am blaming you for your reply #570 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg107095#msg107095) which contained unsupported assertions designed to dissuade Itsu (and others) from experimenting with a different component set than that which you have been experimenting unsuccessfully for years.
I am also blaming you for promoting builds that are not guided by some operating principle and for promoting replication-by-imitation from info-deficient videos without M.O., instead.
I am blaming you for not spelling out a concrete logical operating principle to guide your builds (however contrived), while outright rejecting operating principles and details proposed by others WITH PREDJUDICE, such as:
- fish waveforms,
- modulated waveforms,
- nanosecond pulses
- picosecond pulses
- static magnetic fields
- standing waves,
- split metal tubes,
- McFreey's M.O.
- shaking electrons loose,
- accelerating electrons or ions with HV
- etc...
...especially when these rejections are based on your
feelings and without logical analysis and supporting evidence.
[/list]
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 09:07:46
0
I am blaming you for your reply #570 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg107095#msg107095) which contained unsupported assertions designed to dissuade Itsu (and others) from experimenting with a different component set than that which have been experimenting unsuccessfully for years.
I am also blaming you for promoting builds that are not guided by some operating principle and for promoting replication-by- imitation from info-deficient videos without M.O., instead.
I am blaming you for not spelling out a concrete logical operating principle to guide your builds, while rejecting WITH PREDJUDICE operating principles proposed by others such as:
Ladies and gentlemen, please stop this silly blame of each other. Try to understand that sometimes we are unable to describe a method that only exist in our mind, i know there is a lot of frustration especially when no goal achievement but would be a destructive to start blaming each other for something that those involved in a project do not understand. I think a flexible approach is desired and patience as nobody can splash the cash with unsatisfactory results.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 22:37:16
Nothing that Itsu does bothers me.
So why did you write the unsupported assertions in your reply #570 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg107095#msg107095) ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.21, 22:37:16
You are being pretty rude.
...insults from you.
Insults are directed at a person. I have not hurled any AdHominem names at you. Show me one.
Instead, I criticize your actions, your words, your ideas or lack thereof, your replication methodology your prejudiced rejections of proposed operating principles. These are not insults although they may feel as much unpleasant to you. Take it like a man and learn from them.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 09:16:50
Ladies and gentlemen, please stop this silly blame of each other.
Nick asked for it directly.
Also, I will not allow him to discourage others from experimenting with components which are unapproved by him, with impunity.
Some initial tests with and without the slotted pipe inserted into the Grenade / Inductor former.
Using a FG as sweep generator with 20Vpp sine wave to drive the inductor and measuring the output of the Grenade with a 360 Ohm lamp load
1st screenshot shows a sweep from 1kHz to 10mHz (yellow without slotted pipe, white with slotted pipe):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49040;image)
We see a slight increase in overall amplitude without the pipe.
2nd screenshot shows a sweep from 1kHz to 2MHz (yellow without slotted pipe, white with slotted pipe):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49038;image)
we again see the overall increase in amplitude without the pipe, but also visible now the shift in resonance frequency (higher with pipe) from 1.32MHz to 1.42MHz)
Itsu
Itsu,
It may be assumed but you didn't mention it so I have to ask, is the slotted tube grounded? With the tube grounded, there will be mutual capacitances present between it and the various windings which should produce various resonant peaks not seen without it.
Pm
Hi PM,
not grounded, just floating, but i will retest with a proper ground tomorrow.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.22, 19:29:10
Some initial tests with and without the slotted pipe inserted into the Grenade / Inductor former.
The Al causes a small frequency upshift and amplitude loss. I actually expected more of these changes.
But that is not bad - it just means that the Al is absorbing RF energy.
Do you have non-conductive ferrite magnets that you can stuff inside ? (the Russians used to call it ferrite kielbasa - sausage, but they did not understand its purpose and only used soft ferrite without the magnets).
The purpose of the magnets is to provide static magnetic field polarization to the Al. The windings can also provide the static magnetic field, too, when they are powered by DC through an RF choke.
What are the OD & ID diameters of this Al pipe, anyway ?
Can you measure or estimate the DC & AC magnetic flux density (B) that the aluminum is subjected to?
Wow Verpies, amazing results. But will it fly?
Keep guessing.
One more of your negative comments, and it will be your last, here. Last call. Cut the personal crap.
Be a man, make something that works, for once. Stop being a dick.
My opinions of the split tube was to avoid wasting more time. Like we are doing now. You asked for it. Sorry to see you back. I don't care for your attitude. Nor your limited (NO) knowledge of self running devices.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
Wow Verpies, amazing results. But will it fly?
Keep guessing.
At least I am making an educated guess about the operating principle, not aimlessly varying the build like you are doing.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
One more of your negative comments, and it will be your last, here. Last call. Cut the personal crap.
What personal crap? I haven't called you a name once. I just criticize your words and actions.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
Be a man, make something that works, for once.
"For once"? I have designed plenty of circuits that work. Just none of them are OU.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
Stop being a dick.
See, that is an AdHominem epithet. Learn the difference between this and criticism.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
My opinions of the split tube was to avoid wasting more time. Like we are doing now.
Do you even know how the split tube is supposed to work ?
Can you justify your off-hand rejection of it with anything else but your feelings ?
Also, you don't need me to waste time. I haven't been here for a year and you did just fine without me.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
You asked for it.
No problem
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
Sorry to see you back. I don't care for your attitude.
Yeah, apparently you do not care for people who disagree and argue with you. ...even without Ad Hominems.
You are avoiding most of my questions and I answer every one of yours. Count how many of my question marks you have ignored and how many have I.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 02:11:20
Nor your limited (NO) knowledge of self running devices.
I am not even certain they exist.
Do you know something I don't ?
Yes, you are right about not liking people who just want to argue and hassle and critize every thing that I say. You are it.
I prefer to work with people that cooperate compare and share notes on their builds, show scope shots, explain in simple terms what works and what doesn't, for them. Yet there is not a single person here who will build a totally exact as possible replication, and do their best to make it work, as shown. Not one in any forum that I know of at least.
So, go ahead blindly give out more instruction for someone else to build, so you can continue to critize while doing nothing for this project, but more and more guesses. That won't work...
I do want to get back to what Itsu and I were working to research and analyze different aspect of this particular build.
As talking to you, is wasting my time and efforts, Split tube.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 23:20:29
The Al causes a small frequency upshift and amplitude loss. I actually expected more of these changes.
But that is not bad - it just means that the Al is absorbing RF energy.
Do you have non-conductive ferrite magnets that you can stuff inside ? (the Russians used to call it ferrite kielbasa - sausage, but they did not understand its purpose and only used soft ferrite without the magnets).
The purpose of the magnets is to provide static magnetic field polarization to the Al. The windings can also provide the static magnetic field, too, when they are powered by DC through an RF choke.
What are the OD & ID diameters of this Al pipe, anyway ?
Can you measure or estimate the DC & AC magnetic flux density (B) that the aluminum is subjected to?
Introducing an aluminium pipe as core mainly decrease the inductance so, my guess a slotted pipe will introduce some kind of asymmetric effect because of the gap, consider electric flow in the inductor where inductance is switched up-down on every turn at every slot ... like a pulsed inductance, but overall impedance should be reduced which may add on efficiency also, take in account overall outcome.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 23:20:29
The Al causes a small frequency upshift and amplitude loss. I actually expected more of these changes.
But that is not bad - it just means that the Al is absorbing RF energy.
Do you have non-conductive ferrite magnets that you can stuff inside ? (the Russians used to call it ferrite kielbasa - sausage, but they did not understand its purpose and only used soft ferrite without the magnets).
The purpose of the magnets is to provide static magnetic field polarization to the Al. The windings can also provide the static magnetic field, too, when they are powered by DC through an RF choke.
What are the OD & ID diameters of this Al pipe, anyway ?
Can you measure or estimate the DC & AC magnetic flux density (B) that the aluminum is subjected to?
I do have a bunch of non-conductive ferrite magnets (47.5 x 22 x 9.5 mm) which i can stuff inside the tube.
The OD & ID diameters of this Al pipe are 42mm & 36mm.
About measuring or estimating the DC & AC magnetic flux density (B) that the aluminum is subjected to is more difficult as i do not have any calibrated equipment able of doing so.
I have a hall sensor probe able of doing some measurements, but if it is saying anything significant i doubt it.
I will make some further tests later today.
I am also building your lossless clamp designed yoke driver to be able to drive the Inductor in series resonance to get some more power into the Grenade.
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
Yes, you are right about not liking people who just want to argue and hassle and critize every thing that I say. You are it.
Yes, I want to criticise your methodology. But, I do not want to hassle you about everything for the sake of it- I just made a conscious decision to not let you get away with anything this time. That is why this continues.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
I prefer to work with people that cooperate compare and share notes on their builds, show scope shots,
Yes, I do that when something new piques my interest and makes sense. My lab is one of the better equipped ones here.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
explain in simple terms what works and what doesn't, for them.
Well here is the clincher. You are immune to even considering any explanations that do not involve your cherished energy from vacuum.
Any attempt to do so and you cry - too complicated, too complicated! Tariel said it was simple - whatever that means.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
Yet there is not a single person here who will build a totally exact as possible replication
That is because the device is poorly documented and can be replicated only superficially.
Most importantly its guiding operating principle is missing and you make no effort to postulate a plausible one.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
..., and do their best to make it work, as shown. Not one in any forum that I know of at least.
"As shown" refers to these superficial characteristics only.
Anyway, I think you are unfair to the people that had tried to replicate this device superficially in this forum (like you had) when you write that they have not done their best.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
So, go ahead blindly give out more instruction for someone else to build,
I don't give instructions blindly. I make suggestions that are guided by some operating principle.
You do not, you just try different parameters and permutations of components without a plausible operating principle to guide you.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
so you can continue to critize while doing nothing for this project, but more and more guesses.
You write it as if postulating some operating principle was bad and guiding the build according to it was "nothing".
While winding and soldering wires and tuning frequencies to obtain the highest amplitudes and bulb brightness was "something" good ...but never OU.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
That won't work...
Do you know something I don't or can you foresee the future now ?
Did you find an inconsistency in my proposed operating principle or find a proof that your operating principle works for sure ...and by exclusion mine cannot ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
I do want to get back to what Itsu and I were working to research and analyze different aspect of this particular build.
You did a lot of work with Itsu on this device, what have you learned ?
What are you learning now ? Is there a guiding operating principle that you are trying to confirm or deny with his build ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 04:43:43
As talking to you, is wasting my time and efforts, Split tube.
You just resorted to derision when confronted with a component that does not fit your preconceived notions about this device and its superficial appearance.
This is what I was writing about lately. You reject without justification and offer no alternative in return. You don't support you assertions with evidence. That research methodology is fundamentally flawed.
Do you even know what is the function of that aluminum tube ?
Were all the conditions satisfied for it to perform this function when you had tried it?
Did you even know what these conditions are ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.23, 09:05:59
I have a hall sensor probe able of doing some measurements, but if it is saying anything significant i doubt it.
Perhaps its readings will make sense if you feed the windings with similar currents that the waveforms have now ...but DC.
Verpies, a couple of questions please?
Was there a particular reason why Aluminium was chosen for the core?
Is the mass of this medium, pardon the pun, critical?
I was thinking that if metal foil were to be used the ends could overlap slightly and a strip of thin insulation provide the minute gap you mentioned in an earlier post? If metal foil is a suitable material I could send Itsu some Copper foil left over from a previous experiment?
In my own replication attempt, I made two Aluminium split tubes with a plastic insulation between them. Forming a simple parallel plate capacitor. Inside these plates was placed a coil of around 800 turns on a 50 mm diameter plastic tube. These were connected together to form a resonant circuit within the main coil on the 100 mm tube.
When powered up my device created severe disruption to everything. The camera would freeze and the fluorescent lights above would, whilst switched on become striated with dark and light areas along the length.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.08, 21:04:43
Neither Ruslan, Stalker, Dally or some other the setups have lots in common. So a review can be done regarding the overall mode of operation.... ( this Mode of Operation schould be defined first, even when its not clear we must set a idea and unless proven wrong we got to hold to it)
When we all agree on how we think this setup operates we have to define the conditions.
These conditions need to be challenged in a sort of test plan.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Even the most contrived operating principle is better for guiding these builds than the superficial replications which Nick has been pursuing for years.
I'd like to reserve the right to balk at any proposed operating principle which is based on immeasurable or unfalsifiable phenomena.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.08, 21:04:43
Executing this in a controlled matter and adjusting based on test results will not only lead us to our goal but also prevent us from doing the same ineffective steps over again.
Personally looking back I did a replication of the Ruslan setup, as a lot of us I didn't came further glowing a vew bulbs like a buck booster setup. Something is missing.
Yes!, the guiding operating principle.
It is not documented well so we must make educated guesses about it and verify them by experimentation.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.08, 21:04:43
My take on how this setup as it is presented to us on youtube operates is;
We create a LF signal in the grenade and by injecting a HF signal the mixer (grenade) it gets mixed and feeds the load.
We can discuss a lot about what is seen on schematics and is it really as build as shown on YouTube?
Only superficially.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.06.08, 21:04:43
So whats missing or in other words which step inside the system is not working properly?
If you propose a plausible energy gain mechanism it can be verified or rejected experimentally. Without it we are missing the principle that must guide these builds.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 12:51:44
Verpies, a couple of questions please?
Was there a particular reason why Aluminium was chosen for the core?
Yes, 100% of the natural aluminum on Earth has a magnetic moment, but it is not the best material. Currently it is just what Itsu had on hand.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 12:51:44
Is the mass of this medium, pardon the pun, critical?
Not the bulk mass.
Big chunks of any conductive material (like aluminum) oppose the external radial alternating magnetic flux by means of the Lenz law and eddy currents (composed of slow electrons).
The purpose of the slot is to interrupt this current while still allowing the fast electrons/e
+ to jump the slot. This is two times the reason for which regular transformer cores are made out of isolated laminations.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 12:51:44
I was thinking that if metal foil were to be used the ends could overlap slightly and a strip of thin insulation provide the minute gap you mentioned in an earlier post? If metal foil is a suitable material I could send Itsu some Copper foil left over from a previous experiment?
Brass would be a better material.
Yes, rolled up metal foil would interrupt the eddy currents better than the undivided metal but it would also dissipate the energy of the fast electrons/e
+ faster in the repeated passages through the dielectric layers traversed at very acute angles. So it might be a mixed bag of blessings.
Anyway, the walls of the roll would have to be thick so these fast electrons/e
+ are not able to easily esape the metal as the magnetic confinement loses coherence and allows them to spiral out. Thick walls allow them for more play-room.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 12:51:44
In my own replication attempt, I made two Aluminium split tubes with a plastic insulation between them. Forming a simple parallel plate capacitor. Inside these plates was placed a coil of around 800 turns on a 50 mm diameter plastic tube. These were connected together to form a resonant circuit within the main coil on the 100 mm tube.
Like this ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 13:01:04
I wholeheartedly agree.
Even the most contrived operating principle is better for guiding these builds than the superficial replications which Nick has been pursuing for years.
I'd like to reserve the right to balk at any proposed operating principle which is based on immeasurable or unfalsifiable phenomena.
Yes!, the guiding operating principle.
It is not documented well so we must make educated guesses about it and verify them by experimentation.
Only superficially.
If you propose a plausible energy gain mechanism it can be verified or rejected experimentally. Without it we are missing the principle that must guide these builds.
Verpies,
Well, much appriciated for this reply.
I had cancelled my account, but reading the last pages and some other thread I decided to comeback.
Good to see some people are taking pro active the lead and also like to work out of the box.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 13:17:15
Like this ?
A little bit, yes. I think the term " loosely coupled " might be an exaggeration, more baggy..... ;D
Here's a link to the video I made nearly 10 years ago. Hopefully you can see the Aluminium tubes and their connection to the inner, Ferrite loaded choke.
https://youtu.be/LOqjTHmmumU?feature=shared
I have discovered an amazing source for metal materials here in the UK. They're called M-Machine and they carry an immense variety of products. Brass tube amongst them. I could arrange something with Itsu if we can figure out what is actually needed.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.23, 13:56:56
I had cancelled my account, but reading the last pages and some other thread I decided to comeback.
That's a good thing. I've been away for a long time.
So what is your most plausible guiding operating principle of this device, that does not involve unmeasurable an unfalsifiable phenomena ?
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 14:15:18
Here's a link to the video I made nearly 10 years ago. Hopefully you can see the Aluminium tubes and their connection to the inner, Ferrite loaded choke.
https://youtu.be/LOqjTHmmumU?feature=shared
Oh yeah, these were the times before the wife sent you to the couch for spending money on electronics.
Anyway, these aluminum liners were too thin to have a chance of working, because fast electrons could not spiral in such thin walls for a long time.
Also, you did not have a purposeful mechanism for creating the radial magnetic flux periodically in the aluminum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 14:15:18
I have discovered an amazing source for metal materials here in the UK. They're called M-Machine and they carry an immense variety of products. Brass tube amongst them.
That's great. Do they have pure iron ?
For now, I would suggest that Itsu keeps that aluminum tube as is but with a narrower slot (or slots).
Maybe later, he can cut a 1cm long ring off of it and surround it on both flat sides with soft ferrite to guide uniform magnetic flux from the permanent magnets through that ring.
There is long way to get it to multiply the fast electrons from there, though.
Most likely his diameter is too small and one day he will need your help to get a larger ring. Maybe lathed-out or laser-cut from a 1cm-thick sheet metal (the flat sides should be ideally parallel).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 14:18:33
I've been away for along time.
So what is your most plausible guiding operating principle of this device, that does not involve unmeasurable an unfalsifiable phenomena ?
Thanks for that question.
There have been several, could be one of them the solutions. Personally I blame myself in lack of engineering knowledge and or given up to early.
Pourly documentated by myself as well is a flaw for picking up the tools.
In my understanding we have to create a process that aligns current and voltage... real power.
We get voltage from the inductorloop and probably we expect the current coming from the kacher.
This current needs to be injected and not getting absorbed in the same process cycle.
When the grenade is connected as an output coil it has to be a coil and a capacitor, at the same moment in time? I dont think so... as we have to use the karakteristics of these two components to align 'current and voltage'.
So now we come to the point of 'electrostatic induction' and timing/ synchronisation of this process.
In my opinion the grenade is missing a component i order to absorb the current from this electrostatic induction as this charging looks to be done trough the antenna.
Foil or a additional tube inside the grenade as what is at the moment explored by Itsu in some kind of matter could be it.
2nd suggestion
I also challenged the possibility that the inductor coil is the output coil and push pull driven also.
I always found it strange that a fixed 470nF series cap was used in order to tune the inductorloop....
If this is the case the grenade could fit more i to the electrostatic process as well.
I hope this gives some food for tougth.
Ok....
I have just checked, you, Verpies have your own bench available. What about setting up a topic there based upon the current discussion?
Out of curiosity what diameter of Aluminium tube @ 10 mm wall thickness were you thinking of? And obviously the width. The slit could be " wire eroded " what would be the maximum acceptable gap needed?
I would be more than happy to provide any mechanical help required.
Cheers Grum.
A 38 2" or equiv metric copper water pipe will work you could cut a slit down it with a nibbler or a saw.
might be easyer to get
sil
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 15:12:12
I have just checked, you, Verpies have your own bench available.
I don't think I do because Chet just told me that the forum has limited number of benches.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 15:12:12
What about setting up a topic there based upon the current discussion?
I could but I prefer to wait until Itsu finishes verifying Nick's M.O. - I hope he knows more about it than I do.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 15:12:12
Out of curiosity what diameter of Aluminium tube @ 10 mm wall thickness were you thinking of? And obviously the width.
That is an engineering detail that can be solved by following the guiding operational principle.
It predominantly depends on the strength of the magnets. The stronger the magnets the smaller the ring can be.
This is because stronger magnets curve the paths of the fast electrons/e
+ more than weak magnets, so they don't escape the ring.
An additional DC winding over the soft ferrite can aid the magnets and increase the almost static axial magnetic flux density (B) inside the ring.
I have an equation for it but I need to know the strength of the magnets to use it. My intuition tells me 5cm < r < 10cm.
Who knows, maybe Itsu's pipe and magnets can satisfy the confinement condition already.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.23, 15:12:12
The slit could be " wire eroded " what would be the maximum acceptable gap needed?
EDM is nice but slow and expensive. For larger rings the saw-cut slit can be closed down to zero by squeezing the ring externally.
Intuitively: 0.1mm should be enough to stop the large eddy currents. That's the common Kapton's tape thickness.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.23, 15:10:27
In my understanding we have to create a process that aligns current and voltage... real power.
So why can't we just take the 100kV from a Van de Graaf generator and combine it with the 10A from an alkaline AA battery to get a MW ?
Both sources of voltage and current are already DC so there is no problem with aligning their phase.
Guys:
I am researching and analyzing results, as always. I don't own a mode of operation, as yet. But, it is not the same idea as ape just mentioned. And yes, Itsu is much more familiar with what I have mentioned, and others have as well.
My suggestion is that this is an interruptor circuit, not an additive type of interaction. Not a this and that equal more output type of system. Not aligning the signals, but stoping the magnetic current at just the right time and frequency, instead.
The thing is I'm still just learning about all this different ways of doing things. Nor do I need nor want anybody to think that these are just Nick's ideas. As they are not. Nor am I here to lead the show or have to prove anything, for now. I'm working on what is wrong, by first understanding the proper principals behind the different ways of dealing with this project. And I keep in mind that this is all still very experimental, at best.
Welcome back Ape. Thanks for your feed back.
NickZ
Quote from: partzman on 2023.09.22, 20:03:57
Itsu,
It may be assumed but you didn't mention it so I have to ask, is the slotted tube grounded? With the tube grounded, there will be mutual capacitances present between it and the various windings which should produce various resonant peaks not seen without it.
Pm
PM,
i retested with the alu pipe grounded and ungrounded, see here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49051;image)
Yellow is grounded and white is ungrounded, and we see some lower overall amplitude when grounded, but indeed some extra resonance points in the middle.
But at the beginning frequency (25kHz range) not much has changed.
I had to use a similar but other lamp as the one used yesterday was broken, therefor some overall less amplitude (more load on the Grenade) compared to yesterday.
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 09:26:44
Perhaps its readings will make sense if you feed the windings with similar currents that the waveforms have now ...but DC.
So you mean use a DC current directly into the Grenade coil and measure with the hall sensor inside its former.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 16:22:04
So why can't we just take the 100kV form a Van de Graaf generator and combine it with the 10A from an alkaline AA battery to get a MW ?
Both sources of voltage and current are already DC so there is no problem with aligning their phase.
Well that would be perfect, how to connect it is probably the challenge w/o blowing up something.
Itsu:
I just remembered that Akula's first self runner used what Wesley called a drossel, or something like that. That was placed inside of the big vertical coils. Bulbs connect to the big coil and ground. That was years ago, I don't recall all the details. But, later devices dropped that coiled aluminum sheet, altogether.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 15:48:46
I don't think I do because Chet just told me that the forum has limited number of benches.
I could but I prefer to wait until Itsu finishes verifying Nick's M.O. - I hope he knows more about it than I do.
That is an engineering detail that can be solved by following the guiding operational principle.
It predominantly depends on the strength of the magnets. The stronger the magnets the smaller the ring can be.
This is because stronger magnets curve the paths of the fast electrons/e+ more than weak magnets, so they don't escape the ring.
An additional DC winding over the soft ferrite can aid the magnets and increase the almost static axial magnetic flux density (B) inside the ring.
I have an equation for it but I need to know the strength of the magnets to use it. My intuition tells me 5cm < r < 10cm.
Who knows, maybe Itsu's pipe and magnets can satisfy the confinement condition already.
EDM is nice but slow and expensive. For larger rings the saw-cut slit can be closed down to zero by squeezing the ring externally.
Intuitively: 0.1mm should be enough to stop the large eddy currents. That's the common Kapton's tape thickness.
You DO have a bench available!! Just scroll down from the home page you're between Vasik and Vidura....
As for EDM, I have direct access to a machine. There would be no expense other than the cost of posting. Don't forget that by squeezing the gap you would create a taper to the gap. ;)
Cheers Grum.
Itsu,
Thanks for doing that test! Does not appear to have much significance in and of itself.
Regards,
Pm
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.23, 16:40:36
So you mean use a DC current directly into the Grenade coil and measure with the hall sensor inside its former.
Yes, where the aluminum ring/pipe would be.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49049)
This diagram has the plastic pipe inside the ring, you have it outside the ring.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 23:20:29
The Al causes a small frequency upshift and amplitude loss. I actually expected more of these changes.
But that is not bad - it just means that the Al is absorbing RF energy.
Do you have non-conductive ferrite magnets that you can stuff inside ? (the Russians used to call it ferrite kielbasa - sausage, but they did not understand its purpose and only used soft ferrite without the magnets).
The purpose of the magnets is to provide static magnetic field polarization to the Al. The windings can also provide the static magnetic field, too, when they are powered by DC through an RF choke.
What are the OD & ID diameters of this Al pipe, anyway ?
Can you measure or estimate the DC & AC magnetic flux density (B) that the aluminum is subjected to?
I stuffed 10 of these non-conductive ferrite magnets into the aluminum pipe inside the Grenade, but it made no difference in the sweeping signal.
But this is probably due to the way these magnets are stacked together (north, south, north etc.) see picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49053;image)
So will try using "the windings to provide the static magnetic field, when powered by DC through an RF choke".
In the mean time i used my hall sensor probe to probe the magnetic field inside the Grenade former (without aluminum pipe inserted) to compare it with the Grenade windings signal shown before:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49055;image)
Yellow the Grenade windings signal (loaded with 390 Ohm lamp) and blue the hall sensor signal. Sweep from 1kHz to 10MHz.
The strongest signal on the Hall sensor probe is when the hall sensor is at the Grenade hot side (the most layers side).
Itsu
Here the hall sensor signal compared to the Grenade signal at a 1kHz to 2MHz sweep:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49057;image)
A single non-conductive ferrite magnet is causing the hall sensor probe signal to deviate to plus or minus 1.5V when touching either the north or south pole.
When pushing 10Amp through the Grenade windings via a choke, the hall sensor signal (inside the Grenade) deviates some 10mV plus or minus depending on the direction of the current.
So there seems to be not much of a static magnetic field inside the Grenade
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.23, 20:06:13
A single non-conductive ferrite magnet is causing the hall sensor probe signal to deviate to plus or minus 1.5V when touching either the north or south pole.
When pushing 10Amp through the Grenade windings via a choke, the hall sensor signal (inside the Grenade) deviates some 10mV plus or minus depending on the direction of the current.
So 150x less flux density than at a surface of a ceramic magnet if the probe is linear.
Ceramic magnets typically have a closed circuit Br of 0.23T to 0.38T depending on their grade. ...and half of that for an open magnetic circuit.
So that gives 0.00076T in the worse case scenario. ...no wonder they used the ferrite sausage.
Itsu:
As you may know by now, any increase in gain at the output, due to adding ferrite pieces into the grenade former tube will cause an added draw from the input side. So, No free lunch there. Also causing an increase in overheating of the grenade coils, as well as over heating of the push pull Fets, and overheating of the Kacher, also. Which is probably why there is nothing inside of the empty former tubes, shown by our topic inventors.
Magnets like my magnetite snake eggs can help tune the ferrite yoke for better performance, again at an added draw from the input. But do nothing for the grenade coils.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
As you may know by now, any increase in gain at the output,
Why did you use the word "gain" ? Gain is a ratio. Ratios require two arguments. One of them is the output amplitude
Did you mean to write: "...any increase at the output..." ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
...due to adding ferrite pieces into the grenade former tube will cause an added draw from the input side.
By what mechanism ? Doesn't the ferrite increase the inductance of the coil?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
So, No free lunch there.
Only when you make the assumption that all energy appearing at the output comes from the input. As is happening now.
If the input energy is used to enable some intermediary gain mechanism, then that assertion is not applicable anymore.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
Also causing an increase in overheating of the grenade coils, as well as over heating of the push pull Fets,
By what mechanism ? Alas, increased inductance causes the current to ramp up slower on pulse-by-pulse basis so the PP FETs are subjected to less current and less i
2R heating.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
Which is probably why there is nothing inside of the empty former tubes, shown by our topic inventors.
You cannot see that on the videos. Especially if the core is constructed like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49049).
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
Magnets like my magnetite snake eggs can help tune the ferrite yoke for better performance, again at an added draw from the input.
That makes sense because saturating the yoke ferrite with external magnets lowers the inductance of the windings wound on that ferrite. Less inductance means that the current ramps up faster on pulse-by-pulse basis and the average current increases.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
But do nothing for the grenade coils.
The purpose of the magnets is to polarize the metal ring - not to help the "grenade coils".
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 16:22:39
I am researching and analyzing results, as always. I don't own a mode of operation, as yet. But, it is not the same idea as ape just mentioned.
Explain what you don't like about Apecore's proposed operating principle ?
Don't be afraid to punch holes in his logic if you can find any. This is much better than dismissing it without an explanation.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 16:22:39
My suggestion is that this is an interruptor circuit, not an additive type of interaction. Not a this and that equal more output type of system. Not aligning the signals, but stopping the magnetic current at just the right time and frequency, instead.
Let's assume that interrupting the magnetic flux is possible in some new yet-undiscovered way.
How would stopping the magnetic flux be responsible for generating energy in this device ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.23, 16:22:39
Nor do I need nor want anybody to think that these are just Nick's ideas. As they are not.
And what would be wrong with that?
The device's operating principle is undocumented so you are entitled to invent your own ...and verify it experimentally.
Verpies,
Do you agree that electrostatic induction can be used in order to generate current and that this can operate w/o interference in magnetic induction?
If you agree, it would be possible to adjust phasing of current versus voltage.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.24, 05:51:53
Explain what you don't like about Apecore's proposed operating principle ?
Don't be afraid to punch holes in his logic if you can find any. This is much better than dismissing it without an explanation.
Let's assume that interrupting the magnetic flux is possible in some new yet-undiscovered way.
How would stopping the magnetic flux be responsible for generating energy in this device ?
And what would be wrong with that?
The device's operating principle is undocumented so you are entitled to invent your own ...and verify it experimentally.
Your approach to use magnetic field in o accelerate is electron flow needs some fundamental adjustments to the where a specific north-south alignment of magnetic field needs to follow along the magnetic wires thickness of the wires need to be reduced... please see reference in cyclotron Arie deGeus, playing the with inductance only won't hold the water alone imo.
But everything is possible until opposite is proven
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 10:36:55
Verpies,
Do you agree that electrostatic induction can be used in order to generate current and that this can operate w/o interference in magnetic induction?
If you agree, it would be possible to adjust phasing of current versus voltage.
If just a phase adjustment is needed it would be easier to use 2 caps in series at beginning of the coil where one of them would have a greater capacity value to achieve different angle ... 2 equal capacitors in series = 180 degrees shift, one plus double = 135 degrees ... proved in Arie deGeus few patents Worth to mention that 0.01 capacities would be something that any system would support without any significant difference of operation Also it seems that few twists of wires could do the mimic of caps accordingly with someone from this forum but I haven't tested yet
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 02:59:00
Itsu:
As you may know by now, any increase in gain at the output, due to adding ferrite pieces into the grenade former tube will cause an added draw from the input side. So, No free lunch there. Also causing an increase in overheating of the grenade coils, as well as over heating of the push pull Fets, and overheating of the Kacher, also. Which is probably why there is nothing inside of the empty former tubes, shown by our topic inventors.
Magnets like my magnetite snake eggs can help tune the ferrite yoke for better performance, again at an added draw from the input. But do nothing for the grenade coils.
NickZ
Nick,
i know by now as you have referred to these statements earlier.
But does it all matter now Delamorto in his thread has mentioned that these circuits are only working due to some hidden phase wires?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.24, 11:28:55
Nick,
i know by now as you have referred to these statements earlier.
But does it all matter now Delamorto in his thread has mentioned that these circuits are only working due to some hidden phase wires?
Itsu
Some of them but not all.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.24, 11:28:55
Nick,
i know by now as you have referred to these statements earlier.
But does it all matter now Delamorto in his thread has mentioned that these circuits are only working due to some hidden phase wires?
Itsu
Or a fake connection
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 10:36:55
Do you agree that electrostatic induction can be used in order to generate current
Yes, but that current will be minuscule unless concentrated by a capacitor and drawn periodically.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 10:36:55
...and that this can operate w/o interference in magnetic induction?
I don't exactly understand what you mean by "without interference".
Even current originating from an electrostatic process will induce magnetic field.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 10:36:55
If you agree, it would be possible to adjust phasing of current versus voltage.
I don't know. It would depend on the details of the voltage generator and the current generator.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.24, 10:43:24
Your approach to use magnetic field in o accelerate is electron flow
I am not an author of this operating principle nor its proponent.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.24, 10:43:24
...needs some fundamental adjustments
I have done some calculations to check its plausibility here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg96022#msg96022) because I think it is wrong to dismiss any M.O. off-hand without consideration.
Why do you think this M.O. is related to the Arie deGeus patent ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.24, 11:28:55
But does it all matter now Delamorto in his thread has mentioned that these circuits are only working due to some hidden phase wires?
Good question.
It comes down to whom you believe and why does he believe that these particular guys were fakers but others were not.
.
I need some explanation how to handle the quote boxes
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 12:29:46
...in which coil do we see maximum gain if we could manage to charge this cap ( lets assume 150pf) when charged unipolair with 1Mhz 1000Volts?
I am having difficulty visualizing component and field geometries you are describing. I am not intimately familiar with the morfology of what people call the "grenade" and I think everyine constructs it differently.
Do you mean something like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49047)
P.S.
Please remove your words from my quote box in your previous message.
As this,
Please draw its crossection like I did.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.24, 12:14:36
I am not an author of this operating principle nor its proponent.
I have done some calculations to check its plausibility here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg96022#msg96022) because I think it is wrong to dismiss any M.O. off-hand without consideration.
Why do you think this M.O. is related to the Arie deGeus patent ?
I don't dismiss anything without proof, don't get me wrong, but I really don't thing playing with inductance only will pour any extra energy in any system, unless a system is lacking only inductance adjustment. Also my reference was related to introduction of permanent magnets in system ... which in turn would radically transform the whole system into something different where we working with a different component of electric/magnetic/aether compound.
Imo, a sensible approach to any system or method to obtain ou or collecting FE would be first to acknowledge and admit where the gain coming from, even if this is against mainstream science level of acceptance for phenomena that they can't explain with their stupid and rigid rules which are impinged and imposed with rudeness by obscured interests where bribe and/or military strategic is implied.
Mainly in easy words a simple explanation is that everything in universe is a perpetum mobile and a self balance apply to everything. Our devices will produce a gain as long as we use 2 components out of 3 to create a disturbance with 1 and amplify with second while the 3rd will react promptly to cancel this action bringing all the force necessary. By collecting most of what 3rd component brings we maintain an ongoing unbalance while maintaining the disturbance in an efficient manner with minimal losses which supposedly takes less energy than our gain from 3rd component using a temporary storage medium.
You can find similar explanations of working principle of obtaining extra energy than expenditure in very few and neglected posts of giantkiller (a superb metaphoric story with an old army which we call electrons) and 7redorbs from overunity.com in an elegant and disguised manner. Where my honest admission is that i didn't reach yet their level being just in front of the gates of the realm observing and admiring.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 13:40:02
This picture looks very similar with what deGeus call thin wall conductors where many great effects takes places and in some applications he used thin wall copper conductors with max 15 micron silver plating on outside. The way he achieved almost superconductivity where 95% of resistance in copper has eliminated.
Itsu:
This new development about fake input source, is not new. And also to be taken with a grain of salt.
To think that all self runners shown required a fake source, is stretching the truth a bit more than is needed.
Yet this idea needs to be proven, as well.
We heard what Ruslan did when he sold the device for $5.000. That is also questionable as far as I'm concerned. Even though he went to court about that. There may be much more to all this than just fake inputs in some devices. I don't know Delamorto, and need more proof than he is providing. As that is no small detail, what he is suggesting.
And if so, then why is he here??? Now?
NickZ
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 13:40:02
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4471.0;attach=49067)
Oh!, that's a capcoil. Have you seen these videos about it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aF2qH5n9Cc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtii5B5sxE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDXR2QyTW_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2ayjeFTvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gR2im0m-x8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shugSQP9nqM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtL8Pa8sDOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYfVsJiVdW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2d4UIMS5MA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyOxKRcaZMU
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 14:03:15
Itsu:
This new development about fake input source, is not new. And also to be taken with a grain of salt.
To think that all self runners shown required a fake source, is stretching the truth a bit more than is needed.
Yet this idea needs to be proven, as well.
We heard what Ruslan did when he sold the device for $5.000. That is also questionable as far as I'm concerned. Even though he went to court about that. There may be much more to all this than just fake inputs in some devices. I don't know Delamorto, and need more proof than he is providing. As that is no small detail, what he is suggesting.
And if so, then why is he here??? Now?
NickZ
I seam to remember the guy your refering to got ir working in the end aparantly. Also did you go g
to his live ruslen channel he had all the don e smith vids ? too bad it's gone now once it went on the threads.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.24, 14:56:23
Oh!, that's a capcoil. Have you seen these videos about
Ah ok... so conclusion looking at those vids is that RF can be converted in many forms.
I'm not sure if it helps me at the moment.
But anyway thanks for the video information as it gives some new insigths in RF.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.24, 14:03:15
Itsu:
This new development about fake input source, is not new. And also to be taken with a grain of salt.
To think that all self runners shown required a fake source, is stretching the truth a bit more than is needed.
Yet this idea needs to be proven, as well.
We heard what Ruslan did when he sold the device for $5.000. That is also questionable as far as I'm concerned. Even though he went to court about that. There may be much more to all this than just fake inputs in some devices. I don't know Delamorto, and need more proof than he is providing. As that is no small detail, what he is suggesting.
And if so, then why is he here??? Now?
NickZ
Hi Nick,
I know this new development about fake input source, is not new, it was there from the beginning.
I know the name Delamorto since a long time as he is active in this field like he says for 15 years, and he has a strong argument when he says:
notice how interest in this topic is fading? The reason is simple - no result, numerous deceptions by others
Why is he here now? I understand has found something worth while after 15 years of experimenting and found this a good forum to present his idea in the hope members will join him in his replication to understand / improve his circuit.
Itsu
Itsu:
Well, I'll wait and see what he comes up with. So far, I don't believe anything that can't be proven. Like hidden wires in the ground line, connected to an electric pump in the water well. Yet nobody noticed it. Except Delamorto. Curious.
Believe me I am interested in knowing the truth. Not heresays. I know that magicians can do even more than just hiding wires. He is saying that he knows that ALL shown self runners are faked. Amazing that he know about them all. Isn't it?
I know why he is here now, another guy that wants someone else to make work, what he can't show working after all these years. I pass.
NickZ
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.24, 19:19:23
I understand has found something worth while after 15 years of experimenting and found this a good forum to present his idea in the hope members will join him in his replication to understand / improve his circuit.
I don't mind you joining him in what he is proposing to build if he is the same Delamorto to which you have referred to, in this video:
https://youtu.be/WH2BI6bZsAg
Right now he is scoring negative points with me for not answering my questions directly.
Nick,
he is "close to the fire" being Russian and working in that scene for a long time, so if anyone will know what is going on over there he will be one of them.
But like he said, you don't need to believe him and you obviously don't, so leave it at that then.
He shows a fairly simple circuit that he is replicating so let him present this, so replicators can join.
Itsu
Itsu:
By all means, I am not debating his device. Or stopping any one else from building it, but me.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.24, 20:28:35
I don't mind you joining him in what he is proposing to build if he is the same Delamorto to which you have referred to, in this video:
https://youtu.be/WH2BI6bZsAg
Right now he is scoring negative points with me for not answering my questions directly.
Yes, i believe it is the same Delamorto.
Communications can be difficult as he obviously uses Google translate to discuss things here
Then that translator produces pretty good output.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.09.24, 20:53:18
There can be no definite exact data on the resonator. I wandered without calculations. This is why I posted a diagram on this forum so that the resonator could be made in its own way (diameter, number of turns, etc.). I need alternative
Since he is looking for alternative winding arrangements, maybe you'd like to design such configuration of windings that periodically generates bucking flux and aiding flux, when pulsed.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1541.0;attach=10468)
...and use a powdered iron core or a ferrite with high Zinc content ;)
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.24, 17:11:13
Ah ok... so conclusion looking at those vids is that RF can be converted in many forms.
I'm not sure if it helps me at the moment.
But anyway thanks for the video information as it gives some new insigths in RF.
I will pause my journey on this m.o. as its for me a to much open sea.
Instead of that if appreciated I want to express my journey on the subject. " inductor coil ( with PP) used as output coil in a Ruslan setup.
Ape:
Well thanks for checking in.
It would help us at this time to communicate with someone that has a actual working unit, so as to progress with this project. But, as that has not happened as yet, we continue to be stuck on this.
Those that know, aren't helping. And I can't blame them.
I guess that we will have to wait until we can get one from Walmart.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.25, 13:50:37
Ape:
Well thanks for checking in.
It would help us at this time to communicate with someone that has a actual working unit, so as to progress with this project. But, as that has not happened as yet, we continue to be stuck on this.
Those that know, aren't helping. And I can't blame them.
I guess that we will have to wait until we can get one from Walmart.
NickZ
Well Nick,
I'm not here waitig on someone dropping a working setup on the bench.
I' d like to discover the M.O. in a way as simple as possible as I belive together with some real E engineers this F.E. devices can be engineered.
As I said before we are probably distracted from reality as seen in vids of working devices by the way schematics are presented.
Let me say this,.. something to think about.
Inductor coil sits between grenade and antenna.
If we only connect the grenade at the hottom lead to the bottom lead of the kacher secondary... w/o an grounding connection.
Having the grenade and the kacher secundairy one end floating, with the inductor coil in between this could be an " closed air loop".
Probably a bad formulation.
When we create a standing half wave in these two connected coils the HV potential at both ends wil be opposite.
This means when using a 37.5meter grenade we need also a 37.5meter kacher secundairy.
75meter total... means half wave = 2Mhz.
Secondly I think both coils need to resonate at this frequency for max performance, as we know I have a grenade config on the 2Mhz.
Challenge is the kacher secondary which is 37.5meter meter and needs to be wound on a bigger tube then 50mm.
This kacher secundairy config will be realised trial and error as the topload.. the inductor which probably needs to be grounded/ or not will influence the whole system under load.
Here I will start doing some tests.
That's great Ape, I hope it works for you.
Thanks, for answering.
The only thing that I can add is the idea that this is not a HV plus lower voltage additive system.
No amount of adding these two frequencies together will have any OU effect, ever. No matter what.
This is a interruptor type circuit instead. Just keep that in mind. Otherwise, it is just another boost circuit or inverter circuit. And that's all.
Your friend,
NickZ
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.25, 14:46:38
Well Nick,
I'm not here waitig on someone dropping a working setup on the bench.
I' d like to discover the M.O. in a way as simple as possible as I belive together with some real E engineers this F.E. devices can be engineered.
As I said before we are probably distracted from reality as seen in vids of working devices by the way schematics are presented.
Let me say this,.. something to think about.
Inductor coil sits between grenade and antenna.
If we only connect the grenade at the hottom lead to the bottom lead of the kacher secondary... w/o an grounding connection.
Having the grenade and the kacher secundairy one end floating, with the inductor coil in between this could be an " closed air loop".
Probably a bad formulation.
When we create a standing half wave in these two connected coils the HV potential at both ends wil be opposite.
This means when using a 37.5meter grenade we need also a 37.5meter kacher secundairy.
75meter total... means half wave = 2Mhz.
Secondly I think both coils need to resonate at this frequency for max performance, as we know I have a grenade config on the 2Mhz.
Challenge is the kacher secondary which is 37.5meter meter and needs to be wound on a bigger tube then 50mm.
This kacher secundairy config will be realised trial and error as the topload.. the inductor which probably needs to be grounded/ or not will influence the whole system under load.
Here I will start doing some tests.
1. As an observation i can say your wire length is not enough to get harmonics in standing wave, you need to use
multiple of 1/2 wave length. Total length of wire to be considered including connections.
Also you need a phase shift in standing waves which will further amplify effects.
2. When ground is used means you add infinite capacity, means you need to add resistor.
3. Check how small is the inductance and capacitance in your system.
I will post later some details in Arie deGeus about his setup and it will be easier to compare and understand how and why is working.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.25, 18:57:23
That's great Ape, I hope it works for you.
Thanks, for answering.
The only thing that I can add is the idea that this is not a HV plus lower voltage additive system.
No amount of adding these two frequencies together will have any OU effect, ever. No matter what.
This is a interruptor type circuit instead. Just keep that in mind. Otherwise, it is just another boost circuit or inverter circuit. And that's all.
Your friend,
NickZ
Usually low voltage is used for signal generation, high voltage at high frequency in standing wave is the place where the "magic" is happening in respect with correct length of wires, capacity and inductance.
See quote:
QuoteIf there is a 180 ° phase difference ( equal capacities ) between the electron currents, then we are dealing with " bellies " and " nodes " which move along the wire pairs. Similarly, moving the aether inflow locations where So zero point energy is absorbed .
Logical is that the amount of zero point energy that is absorbed per unit of time, is dependant on the frequency and the amplitude of the injected alternating current.
An open end (other than at the said capacitors ) acts as a mirror, and so the length of the two wires have to be not only equal, but must also be a multiple of a half wave-length, to get pure " bellies " and " nodes " and resonance, making maximum absorption of zero-point energy possible. Also, because of the "bellies" is the alternating voltage measured between the wires 2 x as high as the input voltage.
By varying the capacity of one of the capacitors, higher frequencies / super - positions can be achieved , for example, doubling at a phase difference of 135 ° . Also, if the incoming alternating voltage wavelength-wise does not correspond to the lengths of the wires , will the reflections at the end of the wires and the charge and discharge of the capacitors cause the creation of several wave super-positions, which is undesirable; absorbsion of zero point energy remains therefore very small. A "Clean " wave is desirable and higher frequencies result than in higher zero point
energy absorption .
Ape:
Concerning standing waves, or fish waves or even modulated waves, I've never seen them. Any of them so, not sure if they are really needed or not. At this time we can only guess, and try things out. Not the best approach perhaps, I know.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.25, 20:24:32
Ape:
Concerning standing waves, or fish waves or even modulated waves, I've never seen them. Any of them so, not sure if they are really needed or not. At this time we can only guess, and try things out. Not the best approach perhaps, I know.
NickZ
In my opinion no approach is the less best.
But you've bin quit into al the vids regarding working devices.
Is there one video where we see scope shots presented of a live system?
I haven't seen one.
Thats why I challenge our interpretetion on how these f.i. Ruslan system is configurated and or connected internally.
We don't even have 100% proof if grenade, kacher secundairy, inductor coils are as built as being told/ shown.
Ape:
Yes, I have seen most of the videos on YouTube about self running devices. And I have a good memory for what interests me. As I know that the mistery is only for a matter of time. And what Tesla says interests me the most. As that was before all the bullshit started with these ideas. But, no I have not seen what you asked, nor expect to anymore.
The fact that there is little interest in further study and building, means that they have won so far. But not as far as I am concerned, nor do I need nor want to give up on this, ever. I enjoy the process, and ignore the rest. They will finally lose.
And free energy will be the new norm.
If the Slavic countries were not so far away, I would go there, to check out the real deal. They have the ancient knowledge, that I seek. And the biggest pyramid on this planet, and other unknown things that science is still holding out on.
I am expecting extraterrestrial ships and people to finally come forth, and give us a hand with all this, as well, this year. There are millions of people living on the Moon, Mars, and in our inner Earth. And we don't even know it.
This still is a prison planet. And we are their work slaves. Paying for electric power, water, and fuel. Nice...
50 years of not going back to the moon. Why is that? John Kennedy was killed before he could spill the beans...
Hang in there Ape, itsu, AG, Max, even Delamorto now. And, Verpies, with his critical thinking...
You don't need to argue and fight with me, I am a comrade.
If we don't unite, we will continue to loose the war, on free energy, for free people.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.26, 14:08:14
Ape:
Yes, I have seen most of the videos on YouTube about self running devices. And I have a good memory for what interests me. As I know that the mistery is only for a matter of time. And what Tesla says interests me the most. As that was before all the bullshit started with these ideas. But, no I have not seen what you asked, nor expect to anymore.
NickZ
Nick
I'd like to stay on topic here as there are a lot of forums were these topics are discussed.
So you agree we never seen a device showing kW output power and at the same time connected to oscope devices.
In my opinion everything inside the setup is questionable...probably far from what we tougth in the last 10 years. Even more strange is that there ate people who we still have a kind of fetisch to stay to go on in this direction.
Remarkable no one as I know has tried to put the concept upside down.
Geofusion did a bit with his variant on connecting the output to the series innductor cap.
I would find it very well appreciate if we could do with all the experts here an abstract basic idea engineering on some sideway variants.
Without going to deep down the rabbithole we should be very well able to krank a vew principles on paper with some test directions.
I have limited bench time due to working abroad, so effectively doing step by step design ideas would spare useless time.
Your the moderator here so I would ask you to facillitate in this process and get those comrades you mentioned on this topic;)
Ape:
Thanks for your answer.
Yes, I'm the moderator here, but only to the degree that helps maintain the peace, and focus on this type of self runner. There are people that seam to not like me, for some reason. So, I may not be the popular guy that gets any experts together as you would like. I would however, continue my lonely flight towards self running devices. You are welcome to come along. I have mentioned to you my theories and goals, if you understood about the interruptor circuit.
So, that is my current dirrection. Help me if you can, as that is a different direction to what we have been told is the mode of operations, previously.
Current science "experts", have not helped much to decipher this riddle.
They don't even think that free energy exists .. nice...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.25, 18:57:23
That's great Ape, I hope it works for you.
Thanks, for answering.
The only thing that I can add is the idea that this is not a HV plus lower voltage additive system.
No amount of adding these two frequencies together will have any OU effect, ever. No matter what.
This is a interruptor type circuit instead. Just keep that in mind. Otherwise, it is just another boost circuit or inverter circuit. And that's all.
Your friend,
NickZ
This got my attention while reading through.
NickZ, what is interruption? If you understood interruption you would not be emphasizing on it all the time as the only solution to this problem of building a working device. Let me put it to you that we interrupt all the time except when you are working on the common kacher setup without modulation.
This is it; when your push pull interrupts your Katcher, that is interruption. When your Katcher is running freely without interruption, no interruption. When using the classic Katcher , interruption comes to play through modulation. Then,there will be beating . At that point the Tesla signal is pulsed in the pattern of Push-pull.
Maxolous
Max:
What do I mean by interruption circuit. Well that may be hard to explain, however, what has been shown by the controlled Kacher, using the pp signal to "interact" have shown NO interaction, barely lighting any bulbs. None have shown any intereaction at all, at 500 watt loads. Nor can even light that amount of bulbs.
So if there is no interaction, with additional energy there won't be any chance of self running. You can add all the input that you want, HV, low voltage, there will not be more out than in, because there is no real interaction, with the source of "extra energy", the surrounding ambient energies. I am not suggesting that you or any one believe me. But, that is my direction.
Anyways, I am still working on all of this, and not ready to show what I mean. Perhaps I am wrong, please show me how wrong I am.
I am not suggesting that it's the only solution, as you think. It is what I am working on, at the moment, to find out.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.26, 20:29:11
Max:
What do I mean by interruption circuit. Well that may be hard to explain, however, what has been shown by the controlled Kacher, using the pp signal to "interact" have shown NO interaction, barely lighting any bulbs. None have shown any intereaction at all, at 500 watt loads. Nor can even light that amount of bulbs.
So if there is no interaction, with additional energy there won't be any chance of self running. You can add all the input that you want, HV, low voltage, there will not be more out than in, because there is no real interaction, with the source of "extra energy", the surrounding ambient energies. I am not suggesting that you or any one believe me. But, that is my direction.
Anyways, I am still working on all of this, and not ready to show what I mean. Perhaps I am wrong, please show me how wrong I am.
I am not suggesting that it's the only solution, as you think. It is what I am working on, at the moment, to find out.
NickZ
Yours above refers;
There can be interruption without interaction. That's where majority are stuck , I tell you now.
Maxolous
Inview of the above, that is where proper synchronization comes to play.
I will give you an example. The Katcher is a generator as well as the Push-pull.
Now, by analogy if you are an Engineer given two AC power generators to synchronize.
What would you look at.
1. you want to sync the voltages
2. You want to sync the frequencies
3. You want to sync the phase angles(phase sequences as for 3phase)
Think simple.
Maxolous
Max:
Those are good questions. But, I am not an engineer, nor would expect one to know anything about free energy systems. No money in it...
You normally don't seam to understand what I am saying.
In this case, it's not a matter of what you are refering to by synchronization, like heterodyning two frequencies together, but a matter of interruption, of the magnetic flux, at just the right frequencies. Stopping the magnetic flux, not adding to it. There is a difference.
But, how to do that at just the right frequencies, is the trick. Simple kachers seam to do it better, so far. But, also need to be tuned, to do so. That is not as easy as it sounds. But, they do seam to be able to do the interupting, that I mentioned. Which is to interupt the magnetic circuits, by the kachers circuit.Yet, still needing further tuning, as in my case. Which can take longer than most guys will put up with.
Again, I am in no way trying to convince anybody. Just looking for answers myself, and posting any new updates or results...
NickZ
It is the Tesla that is OU. It is the Tesla that is interrupted.
Maxolous
Like Apecore said " it has to be Engineered"
Maxolous
You must have the concept before this and others devices can be built. Without which, you're like a man winking at a girl in the dark.
It must be Engineered . No copy and paste.
Maxolous
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.09.26, 23:09:48
It is the Tesla that is OU. It is the Tesla that is interrupted.
Maxolous
Max:
The HV is the interuptor, that's why it's needed, so that it can temporarily stop ( interupt) the magnetic push pull circuit, not add HV to it. What happens if the magnetic circuit stops? It's like pinching the water hose, and quickly letting it go.
First circuits used the simple Kacher, I am not sure just how this all works, yet. So, I won't bore you with any more details
Like I mentioned, not trying to convince anybody. Just trying to get somewhere with this. On my own, as there seams to be little interest, or anyone actually building anything, other than Itsu. Which also is not interested in replications.
My interests lie in this logic. But, it's no easy pickings, either.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.26, 18:06:08
There are people that seam to not like me, for some reason.
...and then there are those who like you but dislike your research methodology.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 02:09:42
Max:
The HV is the interuptor, that's why it's needed, so that it can temporarily stop ( interupt) the magnetic push pull circuit, not add HV to it. What happens if the magnetic circuit stops? It's like pinching the water hose, and quickly letting it go.
First circuits used the simple Kacher, I am not sure just how this all works, yet. So, I won't bore you with any more details
Like I mentioned, not trying to convince anybody. Just trying to get somewhere with this. On my own, as there seams to be little interest, or anyone actually building anything, other than Itsu. Which also is not interested in replications.
My interests lie in this logic. But, it's no easy pickings, either.
NickZ
NickZ
It is the push pull that interrupt or inhibit or stop or pulse the Tesla signal. The Push-pull is a pattern or form or template for the system environment.
Maxolous
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 02:09:42
The HV is the interruptor, that's why it's needed, so that it can temporarily stop ( interupt) the magnetic push pull circuit, not add HV to it.
Please draw the magnetic flux in that circuit.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 02:09:42
What happens if the magnetic circuit stops?
It's like pinching the water hose, and quickly letting it go.
Bad analogy because water has mass and magnetic flux does not.
Anyway there is an old IEEE article by Conrad and Brudny that mentions the influence of HV electric field on the magnetic circuit. I think they call it creating a "virtual air gap".
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.25, 20:08:28
1. As an observation i can say your wire length is not enough to get harmonics in standing wave, you need to use multiple of 1/2 wave length. Total length of wire to be considered including connections.
Also you need a phase shift in standing waves which will further amplify effects.
2. When ground is used means you add infinite capacity, means you need to add resistor.
3. Check how small is the inductance and capacitance in your system.
I will post later some details in Arie deGeus about his setup and it will be easier to compare and understand how and why is working.
Hi Classic,
Sorry for my late response.
Let me loint out how I think I have to configure this 2 coil " open" system.
Grenade and TC ( kacher secundairy) both I want to tune on the 2.0Mhz resonance frequency.
In my opinion when wirelength of those two connected coils are together 75 meter and we puks the primairy TC at 2.0Mhz we get a 2.0Mhz wave.
Due to the open ends of these two coils a 1/4 wave appears in each one where the zero node is positioned at the coil connectio point( both coils have equal wirelength)
No ground is used here.
Is this assumption fals or unrealistic?
The real problem with this system it's the method used which add too many things that need to be fine adjusted, most of the system use sine wave instead of square which reduce absorption of energy from 2x3/8 to 2x1/4. Also everything is simple cascading using mutual inductance, where maximum attention and adjustments are needed for coupling.
You need a great precision and accuracy in build to obtain, amplify and maintain the effects involved in absorption of energy from local environment and any little discrepancy in wire length will amplify losses instead of overcome them.
For example if the gain is in range of 5-10% from first circuit and further amplified in 2-3 circuits. Lets say in first circuit for any little mistake you lose efficiency than amplified what you can get ?
Also you need to know that at high frequency and high voltage or high current copper wire will lose at least 60% of its ohmic resistance which is a great factor for inductance and q factor.
When using a resonator which is your secondary it must amplify, that means you need a different ratio for of multiple fraction of wave length.
When mutual inductance is used for power transmission you need some certain capacitance as can be observed in tide windings you need to carefully adjust capacitance in order to maintain inductance and q factor at desired level otherwise you introduce a lot of losses in the system and great amount of work is carried out.
As a general rule when replicating is to copy the work if you don't understand how and why is working said device. Or if you can understand the phenomena and you can see in your mind device working following the input a along the system, find the relationship between each component and recalculate the whole system for each component you change and double check if is generating same effect in system.
Why is important to calculate Q factor ? Is the most important characteristic of the system. A high Q factor for a coil typically falls within the range of 50 to 1000 or even higher, depending on the specific application. This range indicates that the coil has low energy dissipation and is highly efficient in storing and transferring energy.
You may observe there is a relation between cross section area of conductor, length of it and diameter of the coils and all them depend of the frequency injected in the system.
When designing such a system you need to have in mind a desired output and know about load and its impedance, or how you are going to use the output if different loads are used.
Mainly this type of systems works and produce positive results based on frequency and voltage amplification or F and current, more complicated systems will work with F and V+C
So, regarding your system you have described above based on 2 mhz you need 150 m wire for each, if you halve it you are using 1/8 than you need to adjust everything accordingly.
Using much higher frequency will result in less wire to be used, also a square wave signal or slightly trapezoidal will improve energy extraction.
In order to be able to adjust your system you need to understand what each component is doing and what outcome is in different mode connection. I would recommend to start calculating your Q factor as you know what you used, it would be silly for me to start guessing.
While writing it just stroke me an idea that you may use chatgpt or similar to check step by step your system and once you know try to ask as simple as possible for interaction between two components you are using and always ask to double check as accuracy of such software instruments isn't great and do not account for complex interactions. Check if correct formula is used in your calculus and double check results obtained.
Personally i wouldn't build anything before a great understanding of the system or principles involved, otherwise i would be stuck almost at every stage.
I would recommend to read the story of king's army written by giantkiller on this forum and 7redorbs on overunity.com which may describe in a more understandable way what is going on in such setups, and when reading (be aware of long explanations) try to build an image in your mind of the things described.
When speaking about electrons try to visualise a long row of people with their hands up in the air and each one copy the movement of one in front with the same amplitude and orientation, than imagine a guy at the airport with flags in his hands indicate where and how the pilot needs to move the plane, than amply this to the row described, or imagine in AC two rows which interact with each other smashing or avoiding each other upon indications of large amplitude, speed or when two parallel rows are facing opposite directions (bifilar), where a phase shift indicate a certain delay for one of the rows.
Certainly if we attach strings to each one hands might help to reproduce the same movement at high speed in case one would have a different idea :) and i am saying strings not rods because we aim for an harmony not segmented movement where all move in the same time.
After you built this image add a specific medium in which everything is happening, medium which itself have a certain density, viscosity
I hope from all my heart this helps.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.27, 09:34:51
Also you need to know that at high frequency and high voltage or high current copper wire will lose at least 60% of its ohmic resistance which is a great factor for inductance and q factor.
Conventionally, inductors are current devices and HV does not affect their impedance unless isolation breakdown occurs. However high frequency increases their reactance and the skin and proximity effects increase their resistance.
I just want to say something clear in addition to what I already said above.
If someones aim is to gain something with the use of another something which is unknown, the one seeking to gain must acknowledge the existence of unknown something in the first place. If the approach or basis of the method that such a unknown thing do not exist any attempt is futile and nonsensical.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.27, 10:23:48
Conventionally, inductors are current devices and HV does not affect their impedance unless isolation breakdown occurs. However high frequency increases their reactance and the skin and proximity effects increase their resistance.
See attached image to understand what is really happening
Guys:
Looks like we have lots of untested opinions here today.
IF these types of devices are ambient harvesters, we do need to show by what process this happens. Or at least to show it doing so, then try to look to explain the cause, later. Science won't give you an answer, here. And many inventions were found by accident. So, if they are not that (harvesters) but something else, that's another story. If it's not running from the ambient, but running on some form of fuel, that is not the same thing. This thread is about fueless, devices. Not needing our fragile grid system, which could be destroyed or hacked at any time.
How can you know anything about the mode of operations before you know anything about just how these devices work. This is all unthread ground. We can't know what we are doing beforehand, impossible.
The main thing is to get past just sharing opinions only. We have thousand of pages concerning our opinions, but, not a single self runner. Obviously those opinions did not make any difference, up to now. Including my own opinions.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 14:11:16
Looks like we have lots of untested opinions here today.
Mine was not untested.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 14:11:16
If it's not running from the ambient, but running on some form of fuel, that is not the same thing. This thread is about fueless, devices.
Well, you are this thread's boss but this thread's title doesn't state that it is only about fueless devices .
If you do this, you will arbitrarily exclude a large set of operating principles just because it does not fit your cherished idea about "energy from the nothing".
I think you will find out that the members of this forum do not care whether the device uses some kind of fuel, as long as it is free, safe and lasts a decade.
You restriction is only your own and it is not grounded in logic or reason.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.27, 06:17:55
...and then there are those who like you but dislike your research methodology.
Verpies:
Really! And who would that be? You proff?
Can you design and build something, anything, that can self run? No? Don't even think it's possible...huh.
Looks like you are not here for friendships. But, I am not interested in your opinions of my work, nor of my person, nor in your sermons. Or are you still having technical and personal issues. Unable to do any actual hands on work, yourself.
Yes, this is my thread about what I have decided to look into. You have a problem with that?
Start your own thread about non self runners. Needing some thing to burn. This is NOT about that.
Show how well your methodology works towards a free energy device such as these. But, I know that you won't ever show a working self runner. Your limited conventional knowledge and critiques are of no interest to me.
So, don't waste your breath, on me.
NickZ
Nick,
It would help yourself and our overall motivation to see comments as help.
As I think Verpies is right.
Your friend Ape
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
Can you design and build something, anything,
Yes
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
...that can self run? No?
No.
Can you ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
Don't even think it's possible...huh.
If the protagonists from your thread's title are all fakers, like Delamorto wrote here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4510.msg107231#msg107231), then I give it less than 1% chance that it is possible, but that's good enough for me.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
But, I am not interested in your opinions of my work, nor of my person, nor in your sermons.
Your experimental skills and build quality is mediocre but acceptable, however you forgot to mention your deplorable research methodology, i.e. discarding M.O.s off-hand.
Your person, I never commented about that - only about your words and decisions.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
Or are you still having technical and personal issues. Unable to do any actual hands on work, yourself.
No, I fixed all of my equipment.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.09.27, 15:19:57
Yes, this is my thread about what I have decided to look into. You have a problem with that?
Yes, your decision is emotional, biased and myopic.
Well Verpies, perhaps you can find another thread to hassle. I've about had it with you, and your opinions.
I've given you several warnings about this already, which you continue to ignore. Watch now what happens next...
I am not concerned about what you want. If you don't like what you hear here, or prefer to give credence to the ideas about unproven fakes, perhaps you should ask Delamorto for proof, and post there, instead. You are wasting my time and energy here, and I am done with you. You are no longer welcome on my thread. Got it, proff???
Further posts will be removed, if you continue here you will be moderated.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.27, 06:42:28
Please draw the magnetic flux in that circuit.
Bad analogy because water has mass and magnetic flux does not.
Anyway there is an old IEEE article by Conrad and Brudny that mentions the influence of HV electric field on the magnetic circuit. I think they call it creating a "virtual air gap".
Do you perhaps know how to find this article? Can't find it on the net.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.27, 15:59:38
Nick,
It would help yourself and our overall motivation to see comments as help.
As I think Verpies is right.
Your friend Ape.
Ape, I don't agree.
I have never insulted you. Why would I do that, you have been my friend. Remember.
Any way, better to save that argument, as I do not want to hear any more concerning him, here.
I have known him for many years, he has not helped me in any way, ever. Only negative comments and more and more negative comments. I'm done with him. He is no longer welcome here. I consider him only a pain in the ass now.
Like F6, classic, and some other guys, as well.
NickZ
Quote from: Maxolous on 2023.09.27, 06:22:20
NickZ
It is the push pull that interrupt or inhibit or stop or pulse the Tesla signal. The Push-pull is a pattern or form or template for the system environment.
Maxolous
Max, no. It is the modulated, or free running not modulated HV pulse, that turns the kacher on, or keeps it on, at a certain tuned frequency. Once on, this HV HF pulse interferes with the PP magnetic pulse circuits, to temporarily stop it, and interupt it. How it does this, I am still learning.
This stopping of the powerfull magnetic pulse causes an impulse to the surrounding ambient, like a shock wave, and somehow still unknown to me how this causes the input of these surrounding ambient energies to be the further input source for the device. It supposedly causes the device to continue to function without the previous input source, which can then be disconnected.
The idea here with this, is similar to Tesla's interruptor circuits. Like the guy turning off Tesla's generator, which caused his death from that mistake.
You asked me, and I answered. May not be what you expected. I am not asking you to believe any of it. This is just how I see it. You can test it for yourself, if interested, and I know that you are interested. And is why I answer you, in my own way.
NickZ
Ape:
Not to worry I will not bother you again. Friend.
I am not interested in Kapanadze, and his secrets.
And you are not interested in the only guy who has an actual Ruslan replication.
That's fine,
good luck with that.
NickZ
Bump as per Nick request
Very thankful Nick
Topic is archived for viewing, so members who have posts they wish to access can copy them .
Much gratitude
Thank you Chet, you are welcime, I hope that helps.
NickZ