OverUnity Research

I studied the Horvath Patents for a long time,way back, and understand the circuits. A duplication does not need a new cast carburetor and machined spoked electrodes as in Patent. The Electrical circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition for MAIN POWER, with improved efficiency electrolysis for hydrogen and oxygen at 40 amps, 450 watts battery draw. The spark plugs are changed to zero ohms racing type or just get Champion brand with same reach threads and remove resistor from top, and replace with bit of #12  copper wire segment. The gases flow from water safety can to a "spud in jet" as fitting on side of old 1 barrel carburetor at the venturi point. This beveled copper tube + farrow seal cap was also used on small engines on propane conversion without the expensive type kit purchase. Read Patent  3980053, then I can answer you about how it works. A 1994 Chevy Geo Metro 3 cylinder engine with fuel system injector replaced with a used, single barrel Carter carburetor would suffice. You make an aluminum plate adapter. It has a distributor that can be adjusted for timing. The Patent transformer core size was given, so as I had enlarged photo on copy machine to get size of other parts.Substitutes can be used when ordering parts as long as the necessary design systems are included. The on time of current pulses was 42 microseconds out of 100..  1 / F = Period of frequency.10khz = 100 microseconds time. The duty cycle of oscillator was .006. 22 amps cap discharge = 300V DC X  square root of 1microfarad / 185 microhenries coil of TR2 primary.. Frequency of pulses to SCR was 10,000 cycles. Tr1 FERRITE type transformer charges up the capacitor to 300v AC.  Diodes added for full wave DC..Main capacitor HAS TO BE ONLY polypropylene 1MFD AT 1000 VOLTS DC type as LOW esr.  The 22 was amps into primary of TR2. The secondary side was 10:1 ratio. The fast switch SCR is only the high frequency type like a GE model 35 amp. The reverse pulse on the primary side circuit of TR2 shuts off SCR inbetween pulses automatically. The 200A cell pulses creates more Hydrogen with the aid of magnetic field.The TR2 secondary uses NO DIODE RECTIFIER as the pulses ARE called "critical positive wave" with core as laminations, for the high frequency , instead of ferrite. This causes degraded pulse wave as positive DC. Get laminations from take apart microwave old transformer. You would build NARROW rectangle box of high temperature Gray pvc plates. . Two  SS magnetic type plates and metal strips to add to each for spokes. The large Alnico or small multiple STRONG Neodymium magnets get taped to outside of box. N + S on opposite sides box.  The cover gets holes for various brass fittings. Cut out rectangle rubber seal and drilled + tapped  holes for cover screws.Magnetic  Field is between the electrode strip gaps under water. The Oxygen and Hydrogen gaseous bubbles rise up and transfer to special brass wool type fast one way valve before entering the safety water can. Water cell should use baking soda with distilled water, so as no cleaning of container minerals build up. The Metro engine compartment is LARGE and has plenty room to work. Engine could also be put on engine stand, but you would need the Bell housing because the starter motor mounts there.. The car called Geo Metro XFI model with 3cyl did get the highest gas mileage of any car- 52MPG. In Canada it was called the Firefly. Don't forget to buy test meters such as LCR tester. The Analog type face + needle multimeters will measure volts at high frequency, not digital. Float valve attached to cover and small DC water pump, white plastic plug in breadboard for oscillator, ect, you get the idea. I have the sheet of proof reading corrections from poor Patent examiner mistakes.




Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency

I studied the Horvath Patents for a long time,way back, and understand the circuits. A duplication does not need a new cast carburetor and machined spoked electrodes as in Patent. The Electrical circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition for MAIN POWER, with improved efficiency electrolysis for hydrogen and oxygen at 40 amps, 450 watts battery draw. The spark plugs are changed to zero ohms racing type or just get Champion brand with same reach threads and remove resistor from top, and replace with bit of #12 copper wire segment. The gases flow from water safety can to a "spud in jet" as fitting on side of old 1 barrel carburetor at the venturi point. This beveled copper tube + farrow seal cap was also used on small engines on propane conversion without the expensive type kit purchase. Read Patent 3980053, then I can answer you about how it works. A 1994 Chevy Geo Metro 3 cylinder engine with fuel system injector replaced with a used, single barrel Carter carburetor would suffice. You make an aluminum plate adapter. It has a distributor that can be adjusted for timing. The Patent transformer core size was given, so as I had enlarged photo on copy machine to get size of other parts.Substitutes can be used when ordering parts as long as the necessary design systems are included. The on time of current pulses was 42 microseconds out of 100.. 1 / F = Period of frequency.10khz = 100 microseconds time. The duty cycle of oscillator was .006. (.6usec/100usec) 22 amps cap discharge = 300V DC X square root of 1microfarad / 185 microhenries coil of TR2 primary.. Frequency of pulses to SCR was 10,000 cycles. Tr1 FERRITE type transformer charges up the capacitor to 300v AC. Diodes added for full wave DC..Main capacitor HAS TO BE ONLY polypropylene 1MFD AT 1000 VOLTS DC type as LOW esr. The 22 was amps into primary of TR2. The secondary side was 10:1 ratio. The fast switch SCR is only the high frequency type like a GE model 35 amp. The reverse pulse on the primary side circuit of TR2 shuts off SCR inbetween pulses automatically. The 200A cell pulses creates more Hydrogen with the aid of magnetic field.The TR2 secondary uses NO DIODE RECTIFIER as the pulses ARE called "critical positive wave" with core as laminations, for the high frequency , instead of ferrite. This causes degraded pulse wave as positive DC. Get laminations from take apart microwave old transformer. You would build NARROW rectangle box of high temperature Gray pvc plates. . Two SS magnetic type plates and metal strips to add to each for spokes. The large Alnico or small multiple STRONG Neodymium magnets get taped to outside of box. N + S on opposite sides box. The cover gets holes for various brass fittings. Cut out rectangle rubber seal and drilled + tapped holes for cover screws.Magnetic Field is between the electrode strip gaps under water. The Oxygen and Hydrogen gaseous bubbles rise up and transfer to special brass wool type fast one way valve before entering the safety water can. Water cell should use baking soda with distilled water, so as no cleaning of container minerals build up. The Metro engine compartment is LARGE and has plenty room to work. Engine could also be put on engine stand, but you would need the Bell housing because the starter motor mounts there.. The car called Geo Metro XFI model with 3cyl did get the highest gas mileage of any car- 52MPG. In Canada it was called the Firefly. Don't forget to buy test meters such as LCR tester. The Analog type face + needle multimeters will measure volts at high frequency, not digital. Float valve attached to cover and small DC water pump, white plastic plug in breadboard for oscillator, ect, you get the idea. I have the sheet of proof reading corrections from poor Patent examiner mistakes.


   
I studied US Patent 3980053 vigorously years ago. I typed 2 pages of proof reading errors made by the Patent Examiners. Doing a recent review of my findings, the ratio of windings is lastly, still a problem. The main circuit is just a beefed up capacitor discharge ignition at 600watts, and used for electrolysis, instead of low wattage unit for running a common ignition coil.
There is an "inherent" built in lowered efficiency set up ,designed in by Horvath, on purpose. The schematic electrical hook up in the Patent is to be able to use heavy amps as a final , without using a heat/energy wasting rectifier at 200 pulse amps at 600 watts. This brilliant small section of circuit solves the energy waste problem, but the step down windings ratio was incorrectly stated in Patent. With 300 volts injected by the cap into primary inductance, there seems to be a 270v loss to get to 30volts , and then a 10: 1 ratio, for final 3 volts DC. I then assumed there was a mistake as it should be 100: 1 ratio. But then again, that CANNOT BE RIGHT SINCE THERE IS AN INHERENT EFFICIENCY LOSS BUILT IN. The beginning power supply Inverter is high frequency 10,000 cycles. The 1st transformer for the Inverter is FERRITE CORE, which is normally designed for that frequency. The second following transformer using the discharge cap and ratio has low grade, low frequency iron laminations core. This speciality is for the designed in output pulse called critical positive voltage damped wave form, as a degraded final signal. (No heat loss from a 200 amp diode.) The core produces heat which is used to heat the water.
The question being presented here is, is it true then, because of the larger winding core loss of low frequency laminations on high frequency, that the REAL final winding ratio would be changed to approx 70 : 1 to be able to still get the required 3 volts as final?? I understand that Patents don't reveal exacting details, and the typed Patent should say 100:1,- they said 10:1 and are both wrong.
Instructions for the small CDI units for car or small engine ignition say that the high frequency unit is hooked to the regular auto ignition coil. Ignition coils are all called autotransformers with 3 terminals. The interior CORES ARE ALL low frequency iron laminations. Maybe I am reading too much into this, as it is common for cdi to use the iron lamination cores. What we didn't know was, the output pulse is POSITIVE DC VOLTAGE.

In The Patent, Capacitor discharges 22 amps pulse at 300v DC into primary coil 185microhenries. The ratio primary to secondary side changes current to 200amps pulse at 10,000 times a second.This then creates sufficient hydrogen fuel along with the other increases in efficiency for water cell. The engines then, run on water from tank. That particular ratio was 1 to 10 for higher amps. to cell. The amount of current injected relates to quantity of fuel gases evolved. What about the voltage reduction ratio??? 300 to 3 is not 10 to 1 ratio. Is there really a 270v loss in the transfer?? Something is going on here! If 300v changes to 3 volts at 100 to 1 ratio, then 22amps would chance to 2200amps. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.)

(Or just maybe, the LAST actual proof reading error in the US Patent, was the ORIGINALLY WRONG FINAL VOLTAGE, AS It should be 30 volts PULSE DC!) 10 to one Ratio for both voltage 300v down to 30v and current up from 22A to 200A. (The 200 amps sounds more reasonable.) Your comments needed!

It is also possible that the manuscript submitted to Patent office by Horvath was published as is. This would include the 2 pages of proofreading errors I had found, INCLUDED as designed in, to deter the commoners, from any duplication. Quality technicians and Engineers can follow the write-up and fully understand the flow of details. I said the device was used for improved efficiency of electrolysis of water to hydrogen. The Patent said so. The complete explanation STEP BY STEP is in the Patent write up with a parts list. The 2 transformers in circuit were hand assembled as pertinent only for that circuit. The Inverter is NOT similar to the old style methodology, due to the type of reversed rectification used. The DIRECTED magnetic field pulses SPEED UP the ions across the water gap of spoked electrodes. The PULSING METHOD of DC to the electrodes promotes the charged ions stuck to surfaces to be immediately released, and flow upward, better than straight DC. ( THE Archie Blue Patent uses small pumped in air that does a CLEAN SWEEP of ions off of the aluminum perforated stack of discs electrodes in vertical cell. His 3 cars ran on water with 40amp battery draw.) The heat from laminations heats the water to speed up electrolysis. Instant generation of fuel gases as H+H+ O-- ionized and not H2+O2, contains higher energy content If FIRED right away in engine. You did not read / study US Patent 3980053 for free Internet on line, to grasp the significance of this invention. A firm does not expend $5000 for attorney fees to process Patent application without substantial merit. Engineer Horvath's first 2 patents related were similar but differed as to final output of either low voltage or high voltage. His last Patent referred to Magnetron radiation tube in water cell center ALSO delivering sufficient hydrogen fuel. The final take on this overall, is that several special parts as described are not really necessary, and are there just to deter people from trying to duplicate the system. His self running car at 40 amps power draw, was public demonstrated several times and in local newspaper New Zealand.

Re: Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency


The Engineer Horvath had 3 related Patents for hydrogen from water auto conversions. Final cell as low voltage , another at high voltage with same instilled circuit, and the more elaborate water cell with central radiation Magnetron tube.Photos do not tell which type was displayed.  I studied the low volts model and typed out page of proof reading errors not caught .Patents  designs included obvious non essential parts to deter people from replication, - such as cast special carburetor, large diameter cell, interior - rather than external transformer.
Outer box strong magnets on sides of narrow cell would suffice to speed ions . I had 2 steel plates knurled rough with matching flutes nickel plated at machine shop.. They would face each other in narrow gap. High temp gray PVC plates measured for cell + removable cover. Source for free distilled water would still be needed.

The Nuclear fusion conversion conversation in video was wrong. That's not what it was . Just greatly improved Radiolysis of water to hydrogen + oxygen gas fuel method #3. . The#1 and #2  low + high volts designs were not shown.

Horvath had 3 established Patents on high efficiency made hydrogen gas electrical circuits. One was Magnetron glass radiation tube in water cell center. The other two were low volts out and high volts out to water cell . Two were VERY similar to your well known CDI that fires the ignition coil primary side. He beefed it up for 450Watts for the cell, while the alternator recharges battery , about 40 amps. He added efficiency measures to cell such as magnetic field and pulse flowing ions. 200A pulses to electrolysis cell at 30v DC. About 45% duty cycle cell. Designed in high frequency put to low frequency iron laminations core transformer TR2 , so as no diode needed, - called positive Critical  Wave Form. READ the Patent  on line and print it out for study later. Things were added not necessary so as to discourage others from duplication such as special machined carburetor, and separation screens for gases. The old style SCR switch is now replaced with MOSFET. The Inverter transistors as Bipolar type is replaced with Mosfet. The type Inverter is now changed to the "IC driven " type for on+ off switching of current 50% duty cycle. The oscillator frequency is adjustable which gives the wattage wanted. Three cars were converted to water, 6yl, and( 2) 4cyl engines. Hydrogen gas is the fuel of our future . Read # 3980053   1976     . Old electrical parts list was included.  A single barrel Carter carb can have a spud in jet on side at venturi point for hose connection. Saw out an aluminum plate adapter for intake manifold mount of carb. Similar to the old VW engine conversions in 1970's to propane. The expensive Impco apparatus is not needed.

Horvath Patent Saves Even More Energy!

The high wattage CDI power supply, 2nd transformer Tr2 as inside the water cell, had no rectifier on secondary side output wanted. The waste heat was not desired by use of a rectifier as it was running on 200amps  current. Energy was then conserved, and Tr2 transformer had been changed to iron laminations instead of Ferrite material normally for high frequency. It's use allowed for what is expressed as a positive + pulse output as DC , due to the formation of a degenerated, type, of Critical Positive Wave , as seen on oscilloscope. Brilliant!. Taken all together, the electronic circuit was successful, and 2nd similar CDI Patent was issued as final output high voltage type, and 3rd Horvath Patent issued using Radiation Magnetron tube in water cell. That one was shown in the Ford Fairlane V8 engine, back in those days.

 Horvath Tech Data CDI Circuits Build Project

Patent 3980053 Hydrogen generator was studied by me in great depth, quite a while back in time.  I had way earlier, typed out a 2  page corrections of minor errors and items involved , not necessary to add to car engine to run on hydrogen fuel . Fuel upon demand, no gaseous storage. Things were printed as too expensive or particular design manufacturing, to detour others from duplicating the system. I was already aware of these common inclusions in a $5000 Patent. This letter is to inform you of my recent solution to a section of Patent data PROBLEM that was missed by me earlier, as wrong on purpose AND DESIGNED IN,,, the Patent literature. I am presently building the Horvath power supply and water cell tank for duplication, as an average individual would do it without the up above parts/ designs not necessary, but including all of the important EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS as Horvath did. This project was on my mind for years, and quite similar to a beefed up Capacitor Discharge Ignition circuit, as used for powering an improved efficiency Electrolysis cell. He also took data from previous Patents of theirs and incorporated them in his design. It's really the amount of fuel generated, as important, not the efficiency of a power supply!

Here we go:-- A pulse energy into coil has a reverse flow back. The secondary side coil of a transformer follows the primary method the same, except for a ratio change of turns. There can be 60cycles or 20,000 cycles frequency or higher. In general, iron lamination sheets are used for lower frequency range, while Ferrite is on high frequency. As frequency increases, less turns are necessary on primary side. It makes it easier to wind on core. The Patent was correct in that on + off time is required for cell plates, as about/around 50% duty cycle, on the SECONDARY side transformer. This allows the stuck polarized ions to release and rise up in the solution. Horvath said to use iron laminations for TR2, as the secondary side receives what's called Positive Critical wave form as seen on Scope.( High frequency used on low frequency type core.) This was to get a DC pulse for making Hydrogen gas and WITHOUT A Rectifier which would cause loss of 40-70 Watts heat loss, reducing efficiency, the rectifier forward volts drop loss times the current 200amps. This inclusion in Patent was INTENTIONAL TO DETOUR others from duplicating the design as printed. NOT POSSIBLE to get sufficient Inductance in 100-300 microhenry range, at LOW turns,  as necessary with the associated capacitor, on iron laminations!!! Ferrite must be used for way higher inductance on low number to turns to be able to get 10:1 ratio for 22A going to 200 A, with heavy battery cable low turns secondary side of transformer.

All you have to do is put fast recovery high frequency diodes/ rectifier on primary side to stop the reverse wave form, on both sides!

The secondary side sees the same thing!!! I have Primary side  heatsink, with fast recovery stud diode as 1N3913 as 400v DC + 30amps (cathode stud) .
Secondary has wind of #6 gauge cable . The 2 ends hook to  TWO  short #6 ends coming from out side of tank using COPPER cable joint connector with large copper screw.

My rectangle aquarium tank was made with 3/8" thick plates. Presently ordering #6 red cable and gauges. The separate plastic water safety container will have pop off rubber plug, microswitch shuts off oscillator capacitor ground connection, while the flashback arrester is hand made with brass tube and brass wool, and SS screens. KOH is hard to find. Water solution is done by weight of water + chemical together, as 25% and 75% for total weight solution together. You weight the tank with plates first, then determine water level and final total weight minus tank to get final water only with interior displacement..  (Volume + weight will change in final solution to get 25%) See GrokAI.com .

Past dc to ac Inverters had primary extra feedback wind , so as unit shuts down during SCR shorting with saturation of core. (self protection). The modern China 1000W Inverter has IC driven oscillator + needs new and different protection from burn out, during main MOSFET switch operation with it's separate gate oscillator. The method is to charge CDI capacitor through another MOSFET.  . Diode at capacitor then does the discharge through the main Mosfet to primary. and then other one way diode. The resistor going to gate of first Q, is ALSO in series with Drain of main MOSFET, so as NO SHORT.  First Q shuts off during cap discharge. Can also see book pages to see circuit done with earlier Bipolar transistor. and SCR. Add on circuit  was used earlier to raise up frequency of firing lasers. Build Your Own Laser, Phaser, Ion ray gun, And Other working space Age Projects. pages 33-36. Great stuff!  I have 3 copies.

If you were following my messages earlier, I said the sizing of original spoked electrodes anode with area dimensions , came from taking the Patent cell drawing  to an office copying machine with ruler, and doing successive enlargements , so as the TR2 metal core was exact 3/4", as stated in Patent". This way the other dimensions can be revealed. Are you building a cell+ power supply also?

What's important is the "time line"-  Speed of charging as faster than the discharging frequency of capacitor discharges. 51Khz full wave DC ripple frequency has period 1/F. It takes 2 pulses to fully recharge cap in between discharges. Each discharge of Cap is same, - .054Watt. Times 16,700 cycles for separate discharging oscillator to get the 900 Peak watts. Use scientific calculator with formulas. There has to be a "window" of time microseconds after the pulse stops, for the available off time , so as complete recharges happen for 330vDC. A feedback loop wiring and zeners + optocoupler as hooked back to the Master IC, SG3525 keeps voltage regulated, so as parts don't burn out with over voltage. 23.7usec cap stops through diode of primary, , with difference to 60 useconds of the discharge oscillator available off time. The 22 amps pulse is under 30useconds and then off to the 60usecs. This is reflected to the TR2 secondary side as POSITIVE DC pulse with off time in the water. 1/4 wavelength is used in formula for cap discharge time as primary has diode. The charging section at other end has about 12uhenry inductor and series diode also , so as just 330 volts is applied and not 660v. . You can also send short questions to Grok AI, but need to repeat with different wording so as a better reply is made. . A computer cannot think, just relay tech data that's all ready out there.

Quote from: russwr on 2025.11.20, 21:26:33
If you were following my messages earlier, I said the sizing of original spoked electrodes anode with area dimensions , came from taking the Patent cell drawing  to an office copying machine with ruler, and doing successive enlargements , so as the TR2 metal core was exact 3/4", as stated in Patent". This

Hello russwr! 
I have studied your posts, thank you very much for sharing. 
I still don't understand how Horvath improves the efficiency of water electrolysis, and whether the efficiency he achieved is OU. 
Of course, without OU, the engine cannot run in a self-sustaining cycle. 
Maybe Horvath used a strange 25:75 ratio of water to KOH? 
The solubility of KOH in water is 1100 grams per liter. 
So, Horvath's electrolyte is a saturated KOH solution? Would this improve electrolysis efficiency? 

Also, what is the electrode area in Horvath's electrolyzer? Normally, it should be greater than 0.06 square meters. 
How are the electrodes connected to the spark plug? 

You mainly discuss circuit performance. Circuit performance, for improving efficiency and OU, should not be the main factor. 
If the circuit is designed with batteries that match the electrolyzer voltage as a direct power source, for example: many single lead-acid cells in parallel = 2V 2000Ah. 
Using 
MOSFET: IPT004N03L = 30V 300A 0.4mΩ 
as pulse switches, with many paralleled. 
The circuit efficiency would definitely be the highest, and it would be the simplest, cheapest, and most reliable.

Thank you very much!

Quote from: panyuming on 2025.11.25, 21:55:18

The solubility of KOH in water is 1100 grams per liter. 
So, Horvath's electrolyte is a saturated KOH solution? Would this improve electrolysis efficiency? 

there was a thread at ou.com that had shown sodium hydroxide saturated water in a test tube.  he had a coil of wire wound around the middile of the test tube and applied ac input, maybe square wave, at a particular freq and power level. he claimed that since sodium hydroxide was a 'metal', no plates in the solution needed. had claimed and shown what he called profuse amounts of gas being produced.

mags

Mags
Was that the Cancer Dr. from Florida ( kansius? ( spelling?)
He burned water in the tube ...?


Edit
Video here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aFNKjWfbqlA

As I recall he was looking for a frequency to fight cancer

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025.11.25, 22:17:59
there was a thread at ou.com that had shown sodium hydroxide saturated water in a test tube.  he had a coil of wire wound around the middile of the test tube and applied ac input, maybe square wave, at a particular freq and power level. he claimed that since sodium hydroxide was a 'metal', no plates in the solution needed. had claimed and shown what he called profuse amounts of gas being produced.

mags

Thanks to Magluvin for sharing!
This method is great—no electrodes, no corrosion, no pollution.
Thank you!

Quote from: panyuming on 2025.11.25, 21:55:18

Hello russwr! 
I have studied your posts, thank you very much for sharing. 
I still don't understand how Horvath improves the efficiency of water electrolysis, and whether the efficiency he achieved is OU. 
Of course, without OU, the engine cannot run in a self-sustaining cycle. 
Maybe Horvath used a strange 25:75 ratio of water to KOH? 
The solubility of KOH in water is 1100 grams per liter. 
So, Horvath's electrolyte is a saturated KOH solution? Would this improve electrolysis efficiency? 

Also, what is the electrode area in Horvath's electrolyzer? Normally, it should be greater than 0.06 square meters. 
How are the electrodes connected to the spark plug? 

You mainly discuss circuit performance. Circuit performance, for improving efficiency and OU, should not be the main factor. 
If the circuit is designed with batteries that match the electrolyzer voltage as a direct power source, for example: many single lead-acid cells in parallel = 2V 2000Ah. 
Using 
MOSFET: IPT004N03L = 30V 300A 0.4mΩ 
as pulse switches, with many paralleled. 
The circuit efficiency would definitely be the highest, and it would be the simplest, cheapest, and most reliable.

Thank you very much!

I assume you did not study the Horvath Patent to get the details used. No pressure tank storage of gases, fuel evolved on demand sped up, 200 Peak pulse amps at 50% duty cycle into water cell, on + off pulsing DC to remove stuck ions, strong electrolyte, focused electrodes design, ions flow speeded up, Heat, automotive alternator keeps battery charged from about 45-50 amps draw to circuit.  etc. You don't use just standard low efficiency electrolysis. You add improvements to the cell itself and the power supply used. Many US Patents to research. Of course, all those have been superceeded by the Meyer techniques and his over unity technology of Voltrolysis.

The Hefferlin manuscript was regarding steam to Hydrogen engine using high frequency. Back in those days , 1921-late 1940's, high frequency + high volts was only related to the famous high voltage Tesla coil. The extreme vibrations antagonized the molecules to separate very easily in heated chamber. The modern Patent reference I cited was to show that a particular frequency was relied on to make efficient hydrogen fuel gases from steam. Samuel Leach, 1970's  Patents 4148701, 4113589,4247379,4272345   - special composite coating in chamber inside emits frequency when heated, extracts Hydrogen from steam.  Newsweek April 19, 11976, Sam Leach's box pg78.     
Tesla coils can be made/adjusted for many frequencies output. The secondary tube is made first and accurately adjusted. The Primary is then tuned to to that one. Early models were spark gap and capacitor type. Nowdays they can be solid state firings of secondary. Back issue Electronics magazines have articles.

The S1R9A9M9 Georgia engines conversions had used only AUTOLITE brand spark plugs with solid COPPER ROD center. There are many part numbers, but most are with internal resistor of about 4000 ohms. The AUTOLITE 295 is ZERO ohms, non resistor type,  and not iridium type, as recently tested by me. This validates the Georgia electrical circuit as being able to pass the 7 Peak AMPS Current through spark plugs.


My Horvath Patent power Supply as beefed up CDI for powering the separate water cell is just about done. Fans being hooked up to keep China Inverter transistors / heatsink cooled. The end transformer TR2 with battery cable needs to be wound. 30 turns #12 and 3 turns #6. Photo to be sent later. I have been ordering parts for the aquarium box cell, as fittings gauges, special switches, etc.

Time to change the wall calander! Happy Holidays!

dont know if this was presented yet.  ever seen these ultrasonic mist makers?  if it truely atomizes water where molecules are individualized in the air, would a hv charge or plasma, spark, have a better chance at breaking down the water in to hydrogen and oxygen and even getting it to burn during that process?  burning water.

just thinkin.

https://www.amazon.com/alizzy-Fountain-Stainless-Ultrasonic-Humidifier/dp/B0CWKJWRCB/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?adgrpid=1345804743935822&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.u4LClfNL6IULO-7kJmjS_0X5T7SgPjACW65rXOh7ENRXTiq7T0Yqxs_UQ2uZiVxfnP0_oNiDhzdpLKIRvy5N85-WrLw162qhHikOu4jY0OTIeEefaoMXkBh387Gm6KLvXYDaUvM_vu-kK4yyZMWqKGN4hthDcNtmOxnjRPIsVa7iiDpTfNWiLe8geIlxoAB9cJpS0dojsJVCkayMhYdSXA.nOa0kAVsdK3h4TQ42ReP04cyfNVb7neIV8A62K_ap0s&dib_tag=se&hvadid=84113071921565&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=71605&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113948099934%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=12827_13396854&keywords=fog+mist+machine&mcid=2cbfbde5f36c3c628d75a93f8af7b766&msclkid=427749be9c191d93db9920f6b53f5b61&qid=1766336823&sr=8-9

mags

i see now in another thread lower on the list on Stan Meyers talking about same idea.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/nPkbvSEEKeE

mags

It's just fog. Not even water vapor, but tiny droplets of water.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.23, 08:35:12
It's just fog. Not even water vapor, but tiny droplets of water.

I used an ultrasonic fog gen when I was messing around with this, it was cool.

used to be a guy at ou.com that was showing electrolysis with no contact of electrodes to the water.  he said you need to mix sodium hydroxide, just a bit at a time, in pure water till it was saturated. meaning get to the point where the sodium hydroxide would no longer dissolve.  he put it in a test tube and wound a coil of copper wire around the outside of the glass tube and injected pulses to the coil. he said that sodium hydroxide is a form of metal that acts like magnetically induced plates within the saturated solution and produced what he termed as profuse amounts of hydroxy gas. he ddnt stay on the forum long.

the advantages were that there was no electrodes in the water for input and the solution stayed clean.

had some vids on it then he just went away.....

mags

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025.12.23, 20:51:25
he said that sodium hydroxide is a form of metal that acts like magnetically induced plates within the saturated solution and produced what he termed as profuse amounts of hydroxy gas. he ddnt stay on the forum long.

Kanzius ?

Anyway, the purpose of the NaOH is to render the water conductive.  NaCl works, too, but causes chlorine evolution.
The rapidly changing magnetic field induces high frequency AC electric field in the conductive liquid according to Faraday's and Maxwell's equations.
The same principle is used to power inductively coupled fluorescent tubes (see here (https://youtu.be/SaKKzZRrPIg)).

The biggest advantage of this method is the lack of electrode erosion and by extension - long operating life.
The biggest disadvantage - no unidirectional electric field (and no DC) - only high-frequency alternating electric field that can electrolyse water but cannot separate the evoluted hydrogen and oxygen spatially.

So it sounds like your saying that the person who made the claim ( at Stefan's forum)
Was not evolving HHO ?
But maybe steam ?

Yes I remember Kanzius was "burning " salt water with a similar setup ( coil on the outside of tube ??) at a specific frequency.

Seems ( as in your example of gaseous ( fluorescent)bulbs)
It's a type of plasma ( at micro level ( in electrolyte solution)
And Plasma is all the rage ATM and perhaps some things to learn and experiment with ...( various flavors and frequencies??
Gonna see if Jimboot can ask his "crew" about this ?
Respectfully
Chet K
Ps
Russ sorry about this perhaps off topic
However it may not really be that far off

The first Claimed LENR was said to be over 120 years ago while "sparking"Hydrogen
Yes Hydrogen is inert when no Oxygen is present.

Any hoo
Here a preview ( quickly assembled) by Jimboots "crew" on plasma ( bulbs??)
and George Egely's work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KXrT0k7xKys&pp=0gcJCR4Bo7VqN5tD

These experiments are enroute to this forum for public perusal ( soon).

PPS
Jimboot said he would get his crew to investigate ( and report back) the claim Mags posted??
I do remember Kanzius was very inefficient ( high power to evolve the gas from seawater.

Seems the guy at Stefan's was inferring huge gas amounts and efficiency?

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.23, 21:53:10
Kanzius ?

Anyway, the purpose of the NaOH is to render the water conductive.  NaCl works, too, but causes chlorine evolution.
The rapidly changing magnetic field induces high frequency AC electric field in the conductive liquid according to Faraday's and Maxwell's equations.
The same principle is used to power inductively coupled fluorescent tubes (see here (https://youtu.be/SaKKzZRrPIg)).

The biggest advantage of this method is the lack of electrode erosion and by extension - long operating life.
The biggest disadvantage - no unidirectional electric field (and no DC) - only high-frequency alternating electric field that can electrolyse water but cannot separate the evoluted hydrogen and oxygen spatially.

Quote from: Chet K on 2025.12.24, 01:45:49
So it sounds like your saying that the person who made the claim ( at Stefan's forum) was not evolving HHO ?

AFAIR he was evolving HHO and burning it.

Quote from: Chet K on 2025.12.24, 01:45:49
Yes I remember Kanzius was "burning " salt water with a similar setup ( coil on the outside of tube ??) at a specific frequency.

"Burning" salt water is not the best way to put it.  Rather burning the HHO generated from the electrolysis of salt water.

Quote from: Chet K on 2025.12.24, 01:45:49
Seems ( as in your example of gaseous ( fluorescent)bulbs)

You could find one of these inductively excited fluorescent lamps, drill out the tube/donut, pour the mercury out and fill it up with salt water (or soda water) and get yourself an electrodeless electrolyser that makes HHO.

Quote from: Chet K on 2025.12.24, 01:45:49
It's a type of plasma ( at micro level ( in electrolyte solution)

When the dissociation happens in liquid form, it is electrolysis.  Electrolysis evolves gaseous HHO without plasma.  To have plasma you have to have a gas first that is subsequently ionized.
After you electrolyze the water and evolve the HHO, the induced high-frequency electric field could potentially ionize and ignite the HHO gas giving an appearance of "burning water".
The word "ignite" is appropriate wrt HHO because it involves an exothermic chemical oxidation of hydrogen. HHO contains just the right proportion of these two elements for perfect combustion.
The HHO gas can be ignited with a spark or matches, too. A large quantity of HHO burns so quickly that it explodes (it is especially dangerous when confined).

Pure hydrogen (or D) cannot be chemically "ignited" but it can be fused nuclearly into helium at much higher energies ...but we are not considering pure hydrogen here (nor D).

P.S.
Water's O-H bond bending mode resonant frequency is 48 THz.
Water's O-H bond stretching mode resonant frequency is 111 THz, but in liquid water, hydrogen bonding shifts and broadens the O-H stretches to lower frequencies ~100–105 THz.

The optimal frequency for rotational excitation of water molecules in the liquid state at room temperature via an alternating electric field corresponds to the Debye relaxation process and occurs around 20GHz.
Therefore, a 20GHz microwave oven would be the most efficient oven for water heating.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.23, 21:53:10

The biggest disadvantage - no unidirectional electric field (and no DC) - only high-frequency alternating electric field that can electrolyse water but cannot separate the evoluted hydrogen and oxygen spatially.

Can we convert alternating current into direct current inside the glass ?
A correctly posed question already contains an answer. ;)

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.24, 07:43:03
Can we convert alternating current into direct current inside the glass ?

I do not know how to do it without unipolar-RMF or self-squaring Hall Effect or cutting the donut and inserting diodes in the gap.
...but maybe you do.

P.S.
PDC in the primary <> PDC in the secondary.

I enjoy being the AI bitch but as I was saying to Chet today, Google's NotebookLM has a free level of usage and is an amazing tool. I recently trained my staff on how I use it for work but encouraged them to use it for personal projects as well. It's a great way to research, learn and get up to speed on a topic quickly.

Re Kanzius:
Using my mad search skills ( I asked Gemini) Here's a 3min vid of him on the local news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb7-3w9Vlpk
According to Gemini, Stefan and others debated on lack of Pin measurements at the time but Kanzius made no claims of OU.

Gemini explanation.

Here are the specific technical details regarding John Kanzius's RF device and the "burning salt water" experiments.

### **Technical Specifications**

The effect was not produced by a simple radio antenna but by a specific **RF heating system** originally designed to heat nanoparticles inside cancer cells.

| Parameter | Value / Detail | Notes |
| :--- | :--- | :--- |
| **Frequency** | **13.56 MHz** | This is a standard ISM (Industrial, Scientific, and Medical) band. |
| **Power Input** | **200 – 300 Watts** | Kanzius's 2007 demos typically ran at this wattage. |
| **Voltage** | High Voltage (Variable) | The specific voltage across the transmission heads was not always disclosed but was high enough to create a strong dielectric field. |
| **Solution** | **3% NaCl (approx)** | The effect worked best at salinities roughly equivalent to standard seawater (30,000 ppm). |
| **Temperature** | **> 3,000°F (1,650°C)** | The flame burned incredibly hot, capable of melting the Pyrex test tubes used in demonstrations. |

---

### **The Experimental Setup**
The machine was different from a standard radio transmitter. It did not just "broadcast" waves; it created a **resonant Near-Field** effect.

1.  **The Geometry:** The device consisted of two transmitting heads (plates or coils) placed a few inches apart.
2.  **The "Target":** The test tube of salt water was placed *between* these heads, inside the high-intensity RF field.
3.  **The Reaction:** The 13.56 MHz signal caused the ions in the salt water to oscillate violently. This weakened the molecular bonds of the water ($H_2O$), releasing Hydrogen gas ($H_2$) which then ignited at the surface due to the intense heat of the RF field.



### **Why it wasn't "Free Energy" (Overunity)**
This is the key detail debated on the forums.
* **Energy In:** 200+ Watts of electrical power.
* **Energy Out:** The thermal energy from the small hydrogen flame (calculated to be far less than 200 Watts).

While visually stunning, it was an **electrolytic** process driven by radio waves rather than direct current. The system was running at a net energy loss, which is why Kanzius pivoted back to using the machine for **cancer treatment** (using the heat to kill tumors) rather than power generation.

### **A Note on Replication**
If you are looking at old forum posts (like those from user `Hartiberlin` or `Stefan` on Overunity.com), they often attempted to replicate this using **solid-state RF amplifiers** (like those used for Ham radio) hooked up to copper coils. The critical component they often missed was the **impedance matching network** required to dump that much power into a test tube of water without reflecting it all back and burning out the amplifier.

**Would you like me to explain the "impedance matching" circuit required to actually get 13.56 MHz power into a jar of salt water?**

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.24, 12:06:28
P.S.
PDC in the primary <> PDC in the secondary.

PDC
Was ist das?

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.25, 09:44:09
PDC
Was ist das?

Pulsierender Gleichstrom

Hello, friends!

Unfortunately, I once noticed that Kanzius had something inserted into his test tubes—a piece of wire. It's unnoticeable, but visible—the flame isn't coming directly from the water, but from a stump rising above it.

Thus, it turns out that Kanzius's "salt water decomposition" is simply radiofrequency plasma.

It should be noted, however, that high-frequency Tesla coil makers noticed that when placing a small cotton ball soaked in salt water on the high-voltage terminal, the flame discharge not only becomes brighter but also longer.

The frequency isn't important; 13.56 MHz was chosen by Kanzius because it is the permitted frequency for industrial use of high-power radiofrequency equipment. However, the principle of defining permitted frequency ranges for industrial use is also significant. For this purpose, they select frequencies that are undesirable for use in professional radio communications due to high atmospheric absorption, including by water vapor.

Examples of devices that look similar to Kanzius's, but likely consume less power and are easy to replicate:
In all of these devices, the authors attach a small cotton ball soaked in a salt solution to the high-voltage terminal to increase the flame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVUcWeUFZ-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5ke1vGW68E
Power consumption is no more than 100 watts, likely 50-60 watts.

Power is supplied direct from a 220-volt outlet through a 2x multiplier. A suitable RF-tube, a couple of radio components, and a coil are required.

Schematics and descriptions from the authors are here:
https://flyback-org-ru.translate.goog/viewtopic.php?t=7155&_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en

The Western equivalent of the GU-29 vacuum tube is probably this tube: https://www.r-type.org/exhib/abm0001.htm
(a tube like this shouldn't be expensive, I wouldn't pay more than $10-20 for it in any case.)
When experimenting with such radio-emitting devices, beware of interference. It's advisable to experiment in a shielded room or at least in a basement.

sorry but that is not the same guy i was referring to.
when i stated burning water, i was referencing an idea of what could be done in say a stan meyers case with such. this guy didnt have vids like shown above.  he only made  simple vid of some serious bubbling without electrodes. i have what i need to try it.
  ill see what i can do.

mags
 

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025.12.23, 20:51:25
used to be a guy at ou.com that was showing electrolysis with no contact of electrodes to the water.  he said you need to mix sodium hydroxide, just a bit at a time, in pure water till it was saturated. meaning get to the point where the sodium hydroxide would no longer dissolve.  he put it in a test tube and wound a coil of copper wire around the outside of the glass tube and injected pulses to the coil. he said that sodium hydroxide is a form of metal that acts like magnetically induced plates within the saturated solution and produced what he termed as profuse amounts of hydroxy gas. he ddnt stay on the forum long.

the advantages were that there was no electrodes in the water for input and the solution stayed clean.

had some vids on it then he just went away.....

mags

Sodium hydroxide is not a metal, but an alkali that corrodes the skin.

It can be used to prepare an electrolyte for ordinary electrolysis, which produces a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen unless measures are taken to separate the gases using a membrane or by separating the anode from the cathode in separate vessels. Hydroxide gas is not actually hydrogen; it's more likely a term for water vapor.

From a concentrated alkali solution, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, you can produce relatively pure hydrogen without any electricity at all, simply by adding aluminum foil or powder.

An external coil wound around a test tube can be used probably to heat the solution to speed up the reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCB3rBivB4A

Quote from: Magluvin on 2025.12.23, 20:51:25
sodium hydroxide is a form of metal that acts like magnetically induced plates within the saturated solution and produced what he termed as profuse amounts of hydroxy gas.

Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties.
In a high-frequency, strong magnetic field, such a solution can, of course, heat up.

The induced electrodes thing might be interesting, of course.
The idea is to conduct electrolysis not between a metal or graphite anode and cathode, but between two layers of conductive liquid that touch but do not mix. However, the implementation is still unclear.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Sodium hydroxide is not a metal, but an alkali that corrodes the skin.

Correct.
However an electrolysis of liquid Sodium Hydroxide will evolve Sodium (which is a conductive metal) and oxygen and water.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
It can be used to prepare an electrolyte for ordinary electrolysis,

Indeed. When dissolved in water, Sodium Hydroxide can aid in water electrolysis by rendering the water electrically conductive.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
...which produces a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen unless measures are taken to separate the gases using a membrane or by separating the anode from the cathode in separate vessels.

Correct

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Hydroxide gas is not actually hydrogen;

Correct, but water electrolysis does not generate free Hydroxide radicals.
Water electrolysis generates free molecular Hydrogen and Oxygen.  Their mixture is electrically neutral and does not contain Hydroxide anions.  This explosive mixture of gasses is commonly referred to as "HHO" and its chemical formula is 2H₂ + O₂

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
...it's more likely a term for water vapor.

It isn't. Water is not Hydroxide. Water is Dihydrogen Monoxide.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
From a concentrated alkali solution, sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, you can produce relatively pure hydrogen without any electricity at all, simply by adding aluminum foil or powder.

Yes, however that is no longer an electrolysis but a chemical reaction.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
An external coil wound around a test tube can be used probably to heat the solution to speed up the reaction.

Yes, the chemical reaction between the alkali metals hydroxides and aluminum can be accelerated by temperature.
However, the increase of this temperature does not require a coil/inductor.  Any resistive heater or flame will do.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties.

This is false.

The ²³Na in Sodium Hydroxide is 100% abundant and is quadrupolar with spin 3/2.  It has a strong magnetic moment.
The ¹H in Sodium Hydroxide has a non-zero magnetic moment, too.
Sodium Hydroxide components exhibit EPR, too.

Last, but not least, Liquid Sodium Hydroxide or a solution of Sodium Hydroxide in water is conductive and responds to a varying magnetic flux just like any conductor.
When forming a closed electric circuit, it supports electric current induced by Faraday's Law of Induction through ionic conduction.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
In a high-frequency, strong magnetic field, such a solution can, of course, heat up.

Are you referring to:

1) Heating by:
       a) high-frequency electric fields (dielectric heating) via the excitation of water's chemical bonds or molecular angular momentum (Debye process) ?
       b) high-frequency magnetic fields via the excitation of Sodium or Hydrogen nuclei and their subsequent spin-lattice relaxation (T1) ?

3) Joule heating (i²R ) of the liquid NaOH or the NaOH dissolved in water, with the macroscopic electric current induced in it by the varying magnetic flux ?

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
The idea is to conduct electrolysis not between a metal or graphite anode and cathode, but between two layers of conductive liquid that touch but do not mix.

What are the two non-mixed layered conductive liquids that you refer to ?

Will the three-phase rotating field created by the external coils create a semblance of direct current inside the electrolyte ?
The rotation is always in one direction, and never in the other.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.30, 19:14:38

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
    Hydroxide gas is not actually hydrogen;     ...it's more likely a term for water vapor.

Correct, but water electrolysis does not generate free Hydroxide radicals.

It isn't. Water is not Hydroxide. Water is Dihydrogen Monoxide.

I don't know what "hydroxide gas" is, but perhaps the author meant something else and can explain. I assumed they were referring to water vapor and that "hydroxide gas" was simply a misnomer.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.30, 19:14:38

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties.

This is false.

The ²³Na in Sodium Hydroxide is 100% abundant and is quadrupolar with spin 3/2.  It has a strong magnetic moment.
The ¹H in Sodium Hydroxide has a non-zero magnetic moment, too.
Sodium Hydroxide components exhibit EPR, too.

Last, but not least, Liquid Sodium Hydroxide or a solution of Sodium Hydroxide in water is conductive and responds to a varying magnetic flux just like any conductor.
When forming a closed electric circuit, it supports electric current induced by Faraday's Law of Induction through ionic conduction.

Your table salt also contains sodium. Does it magnetize with a neodymium magnet? Maybe it's not refined enough?  ;)

A detailed answer from ChatGPT:

1. "²³Na is quadrupolar with spin 3/2 and has a strong magnetic moment."

This is irrelevant to the original claim and materially misleading.

• Yes, ²³Na has nuclear spin I=3/2 and a nuclear magnetic moment.
• However, nuclear magnetic moments are extraordinarily weak (on the order of the nuclear magneton, ~10⁻³ of the Bohr magneton).
• These moments are only observable in NMR spectroscopy under strong applied magnetic fields (typically several tesla).
• They do not produce macroscopic magnetic behavior such as attraction, repulsion, or "magnetic response" in the everyday sense.

Key point: The presence of nuclear spin does not make a substance "magnetic" in any practical or macroscopic sense.

2. "¹H has a non-zero magnetic moment."

Again, true but irrelevant.

• Virtually all hydrogen-containing substances have protons with magnetic moments.
• Water, ethanol, sugar solutions, and most organic liquids would all be "magnetic" by this logic—which they are not.
• Proton magnetic moments are only detectable via NMR, not via bulk magnetic interaction.

3. "Sodium Hydroxide exhibits EPR."

This statement is almost certainly false or, at best, misleading.

• EPR (Electron Paramagnetic Resonance) requires unpaired electrons.
• NaOH consists of:

    Na⁺ (closed-shell)
    OH⁻ (closed-shell)

• Neither species contains unpaired electrons.
• Pure NaOH and aqueous NaOH are diamagnetic, not paramagnetic.

If EPR has been observed, it would be due to:

• Trace impurities
• Radiation-induced defects
• Transient radicals under extreme conditions

—not intrinsic NaOH.

Key point: NaOH does not intrinsically exhibit EPR.

4. "Conductive liquids respond to varying magnetic flux via Faraday's law."

This is the only physically correct statement in the response, but it is misused.

• Yes, an electrically conductive NaOH solution can support induced currents in a time-varying magnetic field.
• This is electromagnetic induction, not magnetism.
• The same applies to salt water, copper sulfate solution, molten salts, or even graphite slurries.

Crucially:

• There is no response to a static magnetic field.
• There is no permanent or intrinsic magnetic property involved.

Key point: Electrical conductivity ≠ magnetic material.

5. Category error: microscopic moments vs macroscopic magnetism

The original statement:
"Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties."

is clearly about bulk magnetic behavior (ferromagnetic, paramagnetic, diamagnetic response).

• NaOH is weakly diamagnetic, like most closed-shell ionic compounds.
• Its diamagnetism is extremely small and usually negligible.
• It will not be attracted to magnets in any practical setting.

The forum reply commits a category error by:

• Treating spectroscopic detectability as macroscopic magnetism
• Confusing nuclear spin physics with material magnetic properties
• Mixing static-field behavior with induction under time-varying fields

6. What a correct statement would be

A scientifically accurate response would be:

Sodium hydroxide is a closed-shell ionic compound and is weakly diamagnetic.
It has no intrinsic paramagnetic or ferromagnetic properties.
Nuclear magnetic moments and electrical conductivity do not contradict this.

They're showing a trick called "magnetic electrolysis." A single conductor, connected to a magnet, is lowered into each glass beaker.
The glass beakers are placed on a metal tabletop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w


Before this video, the author had videos about a "glass electrolyzer" where he used glass membranes made of some kind of perforated glass to separate hydrogen and oxygen. This glass conducts electricity but doesn't allow liquids or gases to pass through. Translation is available via subtitles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOWj5p8WzQ

What do you think about this trick? Could the author have made the glasses in the first video from the same perforated glass that conducts electricity?

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.31, 08:17:37
Your table salt also contains sodium. Does it magnetize with a neodymium magnet?

Indeed it does not "magnetize" but bulk magnetization was not the claim that I was refuting.

I was refuting the following:

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties.

This is wrong even if the substance does not exhibit bulk ferromagnetic nor ferrimagnetic properties.
Sodium Hydroxide is affected by magnetic fields even if it is diamagnetc in the manner I have described ( except for the EPR of the entire compound rather than its constituents ).

I don't know what kind of leading question you have prompted the AI with to make it judge my words through the prism of a nonexistent claim of bulk magnetization as in ferromagnetism.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59

• Yes, ²³Na has nuclear spin I=3/2 and a nuclear magnetic moment.
• However, nuclear magnetic moments are extraordinarily weak (on the order of the nuclear magneton, ~10⁻³ of the Bohr magneton).
• These moments are only observable in NMR spectroscopy under strong applied magnetic fields (typically several tesla).
• They do not produce macroscopic magnetic behavior such as attraction, repulsion, or "magnetic response" in the everyday sense.

But I never claimed a macroscopic magnetic behavior such as bulk attraction, repulsion.
The bottom line is that the ²³Na in NaOH is affected by magnetic fields even if weakly.

In this line of research we do not ignore weak effects.  If the effect was strong then it would have been found out a long time ago by an B-grade undergraduate in a lab.
Destabilization of the nuclei is one of the paths to free energy even if the effect is weak initially.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Key point: The presence of nuclear spin does not make a substance "magnetic" in any practical or macroscopic sense.

But it still makes it affected by magnetic fields even if the effect is not strong like in iron, cobalt nickel, etc...
I never wrote anything about a strong bulk magnetization like in ferromagnetic or ferrimagnetic materials and the first-order strength of the effect was never discussed.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
2. "¹H has a non-zero magnetic moment."
Again, true but irrelevant.

It is relevant when you make a blanket statement like "Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field;"

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
4. "Conductive liquids respond to varying magnetic flux via Faraday's law."
This is the only physically correct statement in the response, but it is misused.

No, it isn't misused.  It is true and verifiable.
The AI admitted that NaOH is effected by magnetic field in other ways than bulk magnetization (which I never claimed).
That you deem it irrelevant is just your opinion that closes up one avenue of research.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59

• Yes, an electrically conductive NaOH solution can support induced currents in a time-varying magnetic field.
• This is electromagnetic induction, not magnetism.

• There is no response to a static magnetic field.
• There is no permanent or intrinsic magnetic property involved.

Again, permanent magnetism or ferromagnetic behavior was not the subject of my reply.  This is a straw-man argument.
The subject of my response was this: "Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field;"

Also, electromagnetic induction involves magnetic fields.
As such, liquid NaOH or NaOH dissolved in water is affected by magnetic fields ...and that effect is not weak.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
Key point: Electrical conductivity ≠ magnetic material.

Again, the words "magnetic material" were never written by me.  This is an overinterpretation of my words.
My statements were providing evidence that NaOH is affected by magnetic fields when you wrote that they are not.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
The original statement:
"Sodium hydroxide is unaffected by a magnetic field; the solution has no magnetic properties."
is clearly about bulk magnetic behavior (ferromagnetic, paramagnetic, diamagnetic response).

No, it is not clear.  This is an overinterpretation.
I took your statement at its face value.  You claimed that NaOH is unaffected by magnetic field and I have provided evidence that this statement was false.
That some of the magnetic effects are weak and one of them is strong, does not change the veracity of this statement.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59

• NaOH is weakly diamagnetic, like most closed-shell ionic compounds.
• Its diamagnetism is extremely small and usually negligible.

It is true that the diamagnetism is small ...but it is not zero. Thus NaOH is affected by magnetic fields.
In its liquid form it is affected by time varying magnetic fields very strongly.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59

• It will not be attracted to magnets in any practical setting.

Practicality was never the issue.
Anyway, float it on a styrofoam boat and subject it to a field from a large NdFeB magnet and see if the diamagnetism is really too weak to observe.
Even if it is weak in magnetostatic conditions does not mean that it will remain so in high-frequency resonant conditions.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.30, 11:46:59
The forum reply commits a category error by:

• Treating spectroscopic detectability as macroscopic magnetism
• Confusing nuclear spin physics with material magnetic properties
• Mixing static-field behavior with induction under time-varying fields

I have never claimed bulk or macroscopic magnetzation due to spectroscopic detectabillity.  In fact, I have not mentioned bulk magnetization of NaOH even once.
I have never narrowed down the effects of magnetic field on the NaOH to static fields only.
I have never claimed that nuclear spin physics is synonymous with material's magnetic properties but I do claim that spin physics affects them.

@sergh
If you want to have a discussion with me you are welcome to consult your favorite AI but do not ask it leading questions and then post its answers on this forum verbatim as if it was your reply in a discussion.
I want to know what you have to say - not the AI.

I could elicit a lengthy contrary reply from my AI, too, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Posting AI answers as replies to a discussion will be against the forum rules soon, anyway.

BTW:  I have asked you several questions, to which I still have not received replies to.  You can easily identify my questions because they always have question marks at the end of them.

Quote from: sergh on 2025.12.31, 09:52:47
A single conductor, connected to a magnet, is lowered into each glass beaker.

I don't understand how it works. It might  there is two wire inside.  It's no coincidence that he's so fat.

Quote from: Verpies on 2025.12.30, 19:14:38

Quote from: sergh
    The idea is to conduct electrolysis not between a metal or graphite anode and cathode, but between two layers of conductive liquid that touch but do not mix.

What are the two non-mixed layered conductive liquids that you refer to ?

Electrolysis through a reverse osmosis membrane, with salt water on one side and non-salty water on the other.
Some understanding came after lengthy discussions of Boris Liberman's patents on hydrogen production during water desalination with ChatGPT, although he disagrees with calling the process electrolysis.
He prefers the splitting of water by a quasi-bipolar membrane in strong electric fields.

Patents on this topic are easily searched in patent databases, for example patent US20240254008A1 :

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240254008A1/en

The only downside to ChatGPT is that he's usually right. That's if you choose English, a precise model, and a subscription with registration. In other cases, he seems quite lazy.

Generally speaking, this is very brief, but technologically and structurally difficult to implement; it's still in development.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.31, 15:37:25
I don't understand how it works. It might  there is two wire inside.  It's no coincidence that he's so fat.

The glass beakers are placed on a metal tabletop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yf9p96xu_w

One of the many industrial generators that the Sever's made, "glass electrolyzer" where he used glass membranes made of some kind of perforated glass to separate hydrogen and oxygen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgOWj5p8WzQ

The negative pole from the power supply is likely connected to the magnets in the glasses, and the positive pole is connected to the metal surface of the table. The bottom of the glasses somehow conducts electricity through the nanoperforated glass. The question remains: how did he produce such miraculous glass? Perhaps it's some kind of radiation technology in a powerful electron accelerator or even a reactor.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.31, 07:00:48
Will the three-phase rotating field created by the external coils create a semblance of direct current ...

Below is a dipole/bipolar rotating magnetic field created by a 4-pole high-µ stator excited by 2-phase alternating current in quadrature (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=403.msg117645#msg117645).
Did you have such rotating field in mind?

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55256)  A 3 or 6-pole stator excited by 3-phase AC, can also create such rotating field, but the 3-phase solution requires 6 transistors, while the 2-phase solution requires only 4.

The magnetic field generated in the bore of the stator depicted above is equivalent to the field in the air-gap of a permanent magnet rotating like this:

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55330)  (Click on the animations to magnify them )

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2025.12.31, 07:00:48
...create a semblance of direct current inside the electrolyte ?
The rotation is always in one direction, and never in the other.

That is a very interesting question.

Notice that despite the field's rotation being always counterclockwise, the linear direction of the magnetic flux measured at any stationary point, reverses every 180 degrees of that rotation.

The Lorentz Force (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55323) acting on charged particles will accelerate them perpendicularly to the motion occurring between these particles and magnetic flux lines. This works in liquids, too (see this video (https://youtu.be/5oabsU-YZR0)).

However since the direction of a bipolar rotating flux reverses every 180º of rotation, the Lorentz force acting on the charged particles must reverse its direction, too.  This means that the charged particles are periodically accelerated in both directions - thus no net unidirectional charge acceleration occurs ...nor charge separation.   :(

Also, according to the Faraday's Law of induction, when the flux threading conductive loop increases, the direction of the induced EMF in that circuit is in the opposite direction to the EMF which is induced when the flux decreases ^*.  However, an individual charge does not a circuit make (in Yodaspeak).

Near the inner perimeter, the bipolar rotating magnetic field (RMF) can be perceived as a swept bundle of flux - initially increasing and subsequently decreasing in density to the observer and reversing direction every 180º.

* It is important to remember that according to the Faraday's Law of Induction, the EMF induced in an electric circuit, DOES NOT depend on the magnetic flux density RoC but on the RoC of the total flux threading that circuit.

Quote from: sergh on 2026.01.01, 20:35:41
Some understanding came after lengthy discussions of Boris Liberman's patents on hydrogen production during water desalination

In my opinion, this topic is unfairly underestimated here.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.02, 04:20:19
Did you have such rotating field in mind?

This one will work too. But a three-phase one is better, I suppose.
It is still unclear to me how the ions would discharge if there is no obvious conducting electrode in electrolyte"s contact.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.02, 12:33:29
But a three-phase one is better, I suppose.

Are you referring to a 3 or 6-pole stator excited by 3-phase alternating current ?

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.02, 12:33:29
It is still unclear to me how the ions would discharge if there is no obvious conducting electrode in electrolyte"s contact.

In your question you tacitly assume that electrolysis requires a conducting electrode.

Can you envision a hollow plastic tube, like the one depicted below, filled with NaOH solution and acting as a one-turn secondary winding of a simple AC transformer, threaded through a CC or EI or EE high-µ core ?

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55250)

Of course, such simple AC transformer does not create a rotating magnetic field, but it does create an alternating magnetic field that induces alternating electric current in its secondary winding, ...which in this case is the conductive liquid inside the plastic tube.  This current flows in this liquid without any electrodes.

To have the liquid immersed in a bipolar rotating magnetic field you'd have to thread the liquid tube through a special core that looks like the motor stator core in my simulation (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55256).  This is depicted below:

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55252)The cross-section of a 4-pole stator core and the liquid tube threading it.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.02, 13:10:53
To have the liquid immersed in a rotating magnetic field you'd have to thread the liquid tube through a special core that looks like the motor stator core in my simulation.  This is depicted below:

So you are right. :)
In practice, I haven't done this yet.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.02, 16:11:29
In practice, I haven't done this yet.

If you do, don't expect the bipolar rotating magnetic field to unidirectionally accelerate charged particles (e.g.: ions, electrons, charged dust) nor cause charge separation nor DC electrolysis, for the reasons described there (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg117979#msg117979).

For that, you'd need to generate a unipolar rotating magnetic field with a central pole (like a beam of light from a classic lighthouse) ...a wholly different kind of animal.
 
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55332)

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55276)  Arrangements for generating unipolar rotating magnetic fields. 
  The 4 windings are excited with 2 or 4-phase current  ...or 3 windings are excited with 3-phase current ...or more (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55280).

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=55328)  Equivalent mechanical arrangement
  ( Click on the animation to magnify it )

I once took three electrodes in the shape of a triangle.stainless steel electrodes. Three-phase voltage was supplied from a three-phase transformer to eliminate any DC component.
Power was supplied to the transformer from a frequency converter. The container was filled with water and observed gas was released.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.07, 14:24:35
I once took three electrodes in the shape of a triangle.stainless steel electrodes. Three-phase voltage was supplied from a three-phase transformer to eliminate any DC component.
Power was supplied to the transformer from a frequency converter. The container was filled with water and observed gas was released.

Was the water made conductive ?
Were the three electrodes in contact with the liquid ?
If "yes", then this arrangement applies a rotating electric current to the liquid (not a primary rotating magnetic field).

P.S.
If you had put a pole facing-up magnet under the container then it would form a MHD device. See this video (https://youtu.be/2yVlDzbIU5Y) and this video (https://youtu.be/MnNsVICXMhA).

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.08, 00:17:36
Was the water made conductive ?
Were the three electrodes in contact with the liquid ?

Of course, they were.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.08, 12:44:46
Of course, they were.

So that was a normal, albeit a little convoluted, electrolysis with electric current applied to a conductive liquid through electrodes.

The electrodeless AC electrolysis which I described here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg117984#msg117984) is very different.

...and the electrodeless DC electrolysis which I described here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg118018#msg118018) is different even more.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.10, 07:08:31
The electrodeless AC electrolysis which I described here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg117984#msg117984) is very different.

...and the electrodeless DC electrolysis which I described here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg118018#msg118018) is different even more.

Verpies,

I would love to experiment with this looped manifold and a transformer
Would a test tube work ?

I have never seen electrolysis with no anode or cathode in the solution ...or with AC.

Will it work if I use a clear plastic tubing and a microwave transformer ?

What is the best placement ( and size) of wire onto the manifold?
Also the electrolytes?

Would like to better pick the type of electrolyte for this application ( conductivity, perhaps temperature to start with).
This is very exciting... as your comments seem to imply other applications/experiments.

Respectfully,
Chet K
EDIT for response below
Thank you ...very useful information for my replication!

Feels good to learn ( and try) something new .

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.11, 01:38:47
I would love to experiment with this looped manifold and a transformer
Would a test tube work ?

No, it has to be a closed loop.

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.11, 01:38:47
Will it work if I use a clear plastic tubing and a microwave transformer ?

Yes, a vinyl hose with a tee fitting to join both ends of the hose and the third port of the tee for filling and venting.
The microwave oven transformer (MOT) would have to have its secondary winding removed. 
These transformers have a deliberate air-gap in their middle leg. It would be good to plug this air-gap with packed steel sawdust (in some binder).

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.11, 01:38:47
I have never seen electrolysis with no anode or cathode in the solution ...or with AC.

At low frequencies like 60Hz AC, the alternating current changes so slowly that it appears almost constant to water molecules. 
You'd gave to get into the GHz range for the water molecules to notice the changes.
Even in ordinary electrolysis (with electrodes), the 60Hz AC causes hydrogen to be evolved at one electrode and oxygen at the other for ¹⁄₁₂₀ of a second ...next, their roles reverse for another ¹⁄₁₂₀ of a second.
Consequently, a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is evolved at each electrode.
Unfortunately, when the frequency changes too fast, the gasses can recombine, so higher frequency means lower net gas evolution and this recombination time strongly depends on the type of electrolyte.
The unipolar (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg118018#msg118018) scheme behaves in the opposite way - the higher the rotational frequency, the stronger the effect becomes.

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.11, 01:38:47
What is the best placement ( and size) of wire onto the manifold?

Just put the electrolyte-filled loop in the place where the secondary winding used to be wound on the MOT.
Make the loop's circumference as short as possible to keep the resistance down.  It should hug the MOT.

Do not wind any wire onto the vinyl tube (manifold) itself.

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.11, 01:38:47
Also the electrolytes?
Would like to better pick the type of electrolyte for this application ( conductivity, perhaps temperature to start with).

Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) aqueous solution is best because at optimum concentration (26% w/w) it has the resistivity of 1.6 Ω·cm.
Sodium Chloride  (NaCl) is next because its saturated aqueous solution has the resistivity of 5 Ω·cm.  Warning: it causes chlorine gas to be evolved.
Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) aqueous solution is the worst because even at the optimum concentration (25% w/w) it has the resistivity of 6.7 Ω·cm (but no chlorine).
Nitric, sulfuric and hydrochloric acid (muratic acid) beats them all at ~1.2 Ω·cm because of the high mobility of H⁺ hydronium ions, but muratic is nasty to work with (HCl fumes and chlorine evolution).  I don't recommend it.

Higher temperature increases ion mobility and causes the electrolyte resistivity to fall (conductivity to rise) for all of the electrolytes mentioned above.
Conductivity is the reciprocal of resistivity.

Note that overdoing the KOH or NaOH concentration is detrimental to their conductivity in aqueous solution since after the conductivity peaks, increasing the concentration just causes the conductivity to fall due to increased viscosity.
Also remember that the formula for the weight/weight (w/w) concentration is a/(a+b), not a/b

We all know that you can charge a dielectric, glass or ebonite by rubbing them.
Is it possible to charge a  volume of gas?  And how will its pressure change if this gas Will be  in a closed volume?

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.11, 05:07:52

At low frequencies like 60Hz AC, the alternating current changes so slowly that it appears almost constant to water molecules. 
You'd gave to get into the GHz range for the water molecules to notice the changes.
Even in ordinary electrolysis (with electrodes), the 60Hz AC causes hydrogen to be evolved at one electrode and oxygen at the other for ¹⁄₁₂₀ of a second ...next, their roles reverse for another ¹⁄₁₂₀ of a second.
Consequently, a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is evolved at each electrode.
Unfortunately, when the frequency changes too fast, the gasses can recombine, so higher frequency means lower net gas evolution and this recombination time strongly depends on the type of electrolyte.

I was experimenting with electrolysis using alternating current (AC).
The goal was to determine at what frequency the hydrogen and oxygen evolution significantly decreases as the frequency changes from 1 to 100 Hz and higher.

It turned out that hydrogen and oxygen evolution gradually decreases as the frequency increases from 1 to 16 Hz, with decreasing efficiency and increasing heating. Above this, the evolution is negligible, and instead of hydrogen and oxygen evolution, we only get heating and boiling of the water.

It is likely that creating some unusual conditions during AC electrolysis could increase the maximum frequency at which flammable gas is released. For example, rapid vibration of the electrodes, very rapid pumping of the electrolyte with gas release in the settling tank, a special electrolyte composition with some kind of gas-repellent dispersed medium, such as a dispersion of the currently fashionable hydrophobic fluoroplastic powder ( PTFE Powder ), and so on.

If different metals are used for the electrodes, such as aluminum and stainless steel, or electrodes of different sizes, such as a pipe and a thin wire stretched inside, then such electrolyzers will operate with alternating current and at higher frequencies due to the asymmetric properties of the electrodes. The electrodes will quasi-rectify the alternating current due to their asymmetric properties.

But what is the goal? To achieve electrolysis efficiency with alternating current that is partially close to that of direct current electrolysis?

At high frequencies of tens of kilohertz and high voltages of a couple of kilovolts, heating occurs effectively even in deionized water. There are no visible gases before boiling.

Unlike AC, electrolysis with unipolar current, or current with asymmetric half-waves, can be equated to DC electrolysis. Direct current can never be considered absolutely constant, as it is sometimes turned on and off.

Any excess of voltage at the cathode and anode above the minimum DC voltage required for electrolysis (about >1.6 - 2 volts in practice) leads to additional heating and a decrease in efficiency.

Quote from: sergh on 2026.01.11, 16:05:09
It turned out that hydrogen and oxygen evolution gradually decreases as the frequency increases from 1 to 16 Hz,

I also noticed that gas evolution decreases as the AC frequency increases but the potassium hydroxide electrolyte was much more forgiving of frequency than salt.
Surprisingly I got the best result with brown contaminated KOH (drain opener grade).

However with the unipolar (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4509.msg118018#msg118018) scheme - the higher the rotational frequency, the stronger the effect becomes.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.11, 15:30:30
We all know that you can charge a dielectric, glass or ebonite by rubbing them.
Is it possible to charge a  volume of gas?  And how will its pressure change if this gas Will be  in a closed volume?

Corona discharge is effective in ionizing gasses.
It is also known to increase their pressure.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.11, 17:13:37
I also noticed that gas evolution decreases as the AC frequency increases but the potassium hydroxide electrolyte was much more forgiving of frequency than salt.

Yes, I also use potassium or sodium hydroxide in small concentrations in my experiments.
Potassium hydroxide (KOH) can generally show slightly higher efficiency at low-frequency AC compared to salt (NaCl) for several reasons:

Higher Ionic Conductivity: KOH solutions generally offer high ionic conductivity, which reduces ohmic losses and allows the system to reach the "critical current density" required for gas evolution more easily, even during low-frequency AC pulses.

Lower Overpotential: KOH has a lower activation overpotential for the oxygen and hydrogen evolution compared to salt, meaning chemical reactions can initiate faster within each AC cycle.

Ion Activity: The specific activity of the potassium ion  in alkaline media is often cited as more effective for hydrogen production than sodium ions in common salts.

In principle, it seems to me that almost the same thing can be achieved with a solution of ordinary baking soda.


But surprisingly, distilled and even deionized water can be used to effectively produce hydrogen...
I'm sure many of you have seen advertisements about the health benefits of drinking hydrogen water.
I doubt it's beneficial, but the hydrogen in the bottle on my desk produces bubbles that glow beautifully under the RGB LED lights.   :D

Distilled and deionized water can be used in modern hydrogen bottles because they utilize solid polymer electrolyte PEM (Proton Exchange Membrane) technology.

Unlike older electrolysis methods that require solution of electrolytes in the water to conduct electricity, PEM use a solid polymer membrane that acts as the electrolyte itself. This allows the device to split even the purest water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen without needing dissolved ions for conductivity. Using distilled or deionized water offers several advantages:- pure water prevents mineral scale from building up on the electrodes and membrane, which significantly extends the bottle's lifespan.

But there's a problem: these membranes are primarily produced by one company, Nafion, and for some reason they're expensive.

Graphite powder electrodes—the cathode and anode—are formed directly on the membrane; a platinum catalyst must be added to the graphite powder. The binding component for this is also produced by Nafion.

Oxygen is released from the reverse side of the membrane, which is relatively dry; water doesn't leak out, or leaks in small amounts, so only pure hydrogen ends up in the water in the bottle.

You can learn more about this technology from test reviews of hydrogen bottles on YouTube.

What if you blow an ionized, conductive gas into a Rank-Hilsch tube?
After that, gas could be rotating increase by outside coil . ;)
Cold plasmas do exist after all.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.13, 09:22:35
What if you blow an ionized, conductive gas into a Rank-Hilsch tube?

Me thinks you'd get a hot and cold gas out of the tube.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.13, 09:22:35
After that, gas could be rotating increase by outside coil . ;)

What kind of coil?  Drawing please.

P.S.
Please correct the grammar of your last sentence.  It is not clear as it is.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.13, 10:10:28
P.S.
Please correct the grammar of your last sentence.  It is not clear as it is.

Well, so the external magnetic field interacts with the conductive plasma, increasing the speed of its rotation. I still don't know how.
In this case, the division of products into hot and cold may be higher. I think...
All sorts of nonsense just comes into my head...

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.13, 09:22:35
What if you blow an ionized, conductive gas into a Rank-Hilsch tube?
After that, gas could be rotating increase by outside coil . ;)
Cold plasmas do exist after all.

Chief
This cold plasma's and Rank-Hilsch tube (GEET ( *David Pantone did ring me yesterday ))

Also Recently "plasmoids" are in many FE discussions ( GEET >pantone ,Thor Reactor> Malcolm Bendal/Martin Fleischmann memorial project and George Egely's plasmoid LENR claims .

George and others point to biological LENR ( "cold plasma"?)
In our bodies (" known for 200 plus years") and plants also capable of transmutation??)

Absolutely something we can experiment with ...

Yesterday I started disassembly of old projects for bits and pieces to replicate Verpies "electrodeless" hydrogen/oxygen gas production experiments.

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.01.11, 17:22:59

It is also known to increase their pressure.

And what pressure can be achieved?
And will adiabatic heat being released ?

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.14, 19:09:56
And what pressure can be achieved?

I don't know.

Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2026.01.14, 19:09:56
And will adiabatic heat being released ?

The problem is that when magnetic fields interact with electrically charged particles then oppositely charged particles are accelerated in opposite directions.
So if your ionized gas has both positive and negative particles then they will accelerate in opposite directions under the influence of the magnetic field.
If your ionized gas contains only one polarity of particles (e.g.: positive ions) then their acceleration (and motion) will be unidirectional.

Oppositely accelerated particles will move/swirl in opposite directions and the streams will collide head-on and recombine.

Converting non-flammable carbon dioxide into fuel using only electrical discharges is similar to splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen.
However, this process is not very efficient; see the video.

CO2 conversion by plasma:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqLChJmza2k

Why, if in an electrolyzer between two electrodes,we begin the electrolyte  move away from the electrode, for example, with a pump.
Ions move slowly. The electrolyte will move faster. The ions will never reach the electrode. Electrical current must stop.
But something tells me that this will not happen.

Quote from: Chet K on 2026.01.13, 13:48:07
Chief
This cold plasma's and Rank-Hilsch tube (GEET ( *David Pantone did ring me yesterday ))

Also Recently "plasmoids" are in many FE discussions ( GEET >pantone ,Thor Reactor> Malcolm Bendal/Martin Fleischmann memorial project and George Egely's plasmoid LENR claims .

George and others point to biological LENR ( "cold plasma"?)
In our bodies (" known for 200 plus years") and plants also capable of transmutation??)

Absolutely something we can experiment with ...

Yesterday I started disassembly of old projects for bits and pieces to replicate Verpies "electrodeless" hydrogen/oxygen gas production experiments.

Chet,

QuoteYesterday I started disassembly of old projects for bits and pieces to replicate Verpies "electrodeless" hydrogen/oxygen gas production experiments.

Per our conversation, here is a picture of my Mazilli /ZVS setup for this "electrodeless" hydrogen/oxygen gas production experiment.

White 3D printed loop filled with NaCl or NaHo placed as secondary inside this ferrite ring.

Frequency of the mazilli was around 21kHz, but no effect was noticed (ferrite got warm though)

I could not get the DC resistance of the mixture below 15kOhm which could be one of the problems or the used frequency.

Itsu

Brine has the resistivity of 4.35 Ω·cm.
So the brine in a 10cm long pipe with 1cm inner diameter should have the resistance of 55.4 Ω
If the pipe is 20cm long then the resistance of the brine in it would double to 110.8Ω.

The 15kΩ resistance is three orders of magnitude off. Maybe the concentration is low or the pipe has a narrowing inside (a common fault of 3D printed inner features).
Temperature affects the resistivity of the brine, too, so you can use 5 Ω·cm as a ball park figure.

Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) is a better electrolyte because it does not evolve chlorine gas and its conductivity peaks at 26% w/w concentration at 1.60 Ω·cm.
Note that the conductivity of KOH peaks at 26% and becomes worse at higher concentrations (the opposite of brine behavior).

Thanks verpies,

the 3D printed loop (petg) is unobstructed inside, as a piece of RG58 coax can be inserted all the way (40cm) without problem.

The inside diameter of the loop is 1cm.

I mix the NaCl first in a plastic cup and measure the mix with my Fluke DMM in Ohms mode using demin water (probes about 5cm apart), but it starts from say 130kOhm, and it will never get lower than 15kOhm or so no matter how much salt i add.

I have some KOH on order, so i will try it again using that mix.

I got my KOH to mix in with demin water, but the best i could get was about 9.2 Ohm/cm measured using an analog meter in x1 Ohm mode.

I tried again with my mazilli, but could not see any effect, see video: https://youtu.be/YokobL1N354

Itsu

I get electrolysis at 50Hz but only with technical grade KOH.  The A.C.S. grade does not perform well, which is not something I expected.

Hi Guys.
Do you recall an electrolyte that Mike concocted for his SMD system? Pretty sure it  used Acetic acid with de-min water and an Alkali?

Sorry to interrupt... Graham.

Correct Graham, "sodium acetate, a mixture of NaOH and white vinigar at saturation".



I was able to get 1.6 Ohm/cm with my KOH / Demin water mixture using a different measurement method, but it did not do anything using my Mazilli as shown earlier.

Probably the frequency of the mazilli is too high.

Itsu

Still playing with my 3D printed loop-tube and the KOH mix (1.6 Ohm/cm) now using a Nanocrystalline C-core.

There is a primary coil attached to a variac connected to the 240V / 50Hz mains and the loop-tube as a secondary filled with the KOH mix.

Monitoring the AC voltage and current (max 4A @ 68V AC) and the temperature of the primary (31 degrees C), but no gas has been seen coming from the tube at the moment, video here: https://youtu.be/wQ_EO__9uds

Itsu

Electrolysis can be performed without alkali (KOH, etc.).
It's sufficient to use a PEM membrane coated with a carbon layer and a platinum catalyst, as is done in modern hydrogen bottles or high-efficiency electrolyzers. In this case, the proton exchange membrane itself functions as a solid electrolyte.

QuoteUsing distilled water in a hydrogen bottle is highly recommended to maximize performance and protect the device from mineral buildup. The Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM)/Solid Polymer Electrolysis (SPE) technology works best with pure water, ensuring high-concentration hydrogen infusion (up to 3000ppb) without damaging the electrode plates.

https://img.kwcdn.com/product/fancy/a23620c2-f735-45a2-985c-ebd544539c3d.jpg

However, there are also more efficient devices that can also operate on pure distilled water:

QuoteGT-A060 60ML Electrolytic Cell Module PEM Hydrogen Generator for Pure Water and Distilled Water

Specification:
- Model: GT-A060
- Hydrogen yield: 60 ± 5ml/min
- Working medium: pure water or distilled water, TDS < 5ppm
- Input water pressure: <0.2MPa
- Output pressure: 1.0MPa
- Water supply: water tank - module cycle between the water supply, water level difference needs to be more than 15cm
- Product size: 73 x 56 x 50mm
- Mounting hole size: 4 x M4
- Inlet and outlet diameter: 1/4 inch quick connector
- Power supply type: constant current power supply
- Input voltage: DC3.5 - 5V
- Input Current: 8 - 9A
- Surface temperature: <60℃
- Suggested hydrogen water flow rate: 500 - 700ml/min

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=GT-A060&_sop=15

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61lfDH+oTZL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)

Hi Itsu.
Are you trying to evolve gas by electromagnetic stimulation? 

Have you thought about winding a single turn of clear Silicone tubing around the core? You would be able to see bubble formation instantly.

Obviously I'm not involved with this project but can the core be driven by a good quality audio amplifier so that the entire audio frequency range can be tried? I seem to recall MJN suggesting a certain frequency or a combination of two was advantageous??

Regards Graham.

Hi Graham,

Quote from: Grumage on 2026.02.02, 15:26:30Are you trying to evolve gas by electromagnetic stimulation? 

It's called  "electrodeless" hydrogen/oxygen gas production in post #55 above  :)

Quote from: Grumage on 2026.02.02, 15:26:30Have you thought about winding a single turn of clear Silicone tubing around the core? You would be able to see bubble formation instantly.

It was mentioned somewhere yes,  not sure where, but i have this 3D printed (petg) loop tube, but a might need to change to clear Silicone tubing for better visibility  O0

Quote from: Grumage on 2026.02.02, 15:26:30Obviously I'm not involved with this project but can the core be driven by a good quality audio amplifier so that the entire audio frequency range can be tried? I seem to recall MJN suggesting a certain frequency or a combination of two was advantageous??

Good idea, i tried that with the mazilli core, but my FG driven audio amp did not like that (went in protection mode), so i need to use a better matched impedance transformer for that i guess, i will look into that.


Itsu

Quote from: Grumage on 2026.02.02, 15:26:30
Hi Itsu.
Are you trying to evolve gas by electromagnetic stimulation? 

Have you thought about winding a single turn of clear Silicone tubing around the core? You would be able to see bubble formation instantly.

Obviously I'm not involved with this project but can the core be driven by a good quality audio amplifier so that the entire audio frequency range can be tried? I seem to recall MJN suggesting a certain frequency or a combination of two was advantageous??

Regards Graham.

This reminds me of the Tesla hairpin circuit or Lecher line. In Tesla's lecture and patents on medical devices he describes wavelengths as short as 1cm. He also describes how the max (+) and (-) potential fall at one half the wavelength demonstrated with a light bulb. As such it sounds reasonable that we could induce a difference in potential across two plates with close spacing. The medium may change but the principal remains.

"At high frequencies, voltage and current don't behave "lumped" anymore—they form standing waves along the wires. Lecher lines let you see and measure that."

This guy demonstrates that the hairpin circuit works exactly as Tesla claimed.
https://waveguide.blog/tesla-hairpin-circuit-stout-copper-bars-replication/