Hi everyone,
There is a replication attempt for this patent which is quite simple and almost everything is known. On top of detailed description we have available all formula to practise a bit of math or any simulator software.
Part list required as per patent details:
1. Enamelled copper wire in length required according to signal generator operating frequency. It has to be 2 equal lengths that will match 1/2 wave length corresponding to frequency which can be calculated as:
L=c/2*f
Where: L is the length of the wire in meters (m), c is the speed of light, f is the frequency in hertz (Hz).
Cross section of wire should be chose according with power source and can be calculated safe as 5 amp per 1 sq mm. Approximative 17.65 m for 8.5 MHz
2. Capacitors at least 1/2 pF so, it can be greater and voltage to be match by 2x of input voltage from power source. If frequency multiplied is desired we need 2 capacitors where one of them will have up to 1.5 times more capacity. Practical you wont find anything off the shelf close to characteristics specified in the patent so, chose whatever small capacity is available without ordering +500 pcs just for a test.
3. Power source. Any AC available that will not exceed voltage permitted by components to be used. So, it need to be 1/2 of capacitors voltage and no more than voltage operating oscillator. Even if higher amplitude (voltage) is desired we are constrained by handling capabilities of components to be used in circuit. I would recommend to keep it for off the shelf components and avoid expensive and bespoke solutions.
4. Oscilator/signal generator. Anything that work with desired voltage and is capable to have an output of decent high frequency. 8.5 MHz or higher square wave if possible, although any shape will do the job but less efficient.
5. Coil former. Depend on the shape you chose to build which can be bifilar spiral flat coil, cylindrical or toroid. Easier one to make is cylindrical where it needs to be large diameter and short. Would be better to try to do flat bifilar flat coil starting with a relative large diameter compared with "usual" bifilar Tesla coil where a smaller cross section of wire would not lead to great difference of length between inner and outer wire if a slightly large diameter is chosen. My choice for this shape is because it offer a higher absorption of zpe, as I found more difficult to wind toroids and should be avoided multiple layers where opposite flow is really hard to achieve.
Few setups like this can be built in cascade for an undeniable ou.
In further posts we can discuss practical approach for sourcing components scavenged or off the shelf to keep it low cost easy to to build.
As an observation: this device is similar to Don Smith, Kapanadze and if a good efficiency and low loss is obtained achievement should be above error margin for ou.
Anyone can suggest something cheap for signal generator with an output of lets say 110 v and above 3 MHz ?
Or, can we use any components from a smart phone at 2.4 GHz to have multiple of wave length for 3 harmonics ? Or something similar ?
See attached copy of patent
To understand what i am speaking about let's say (an improbable diy project) we decide to use a wireless wifi router circuit to get 2.4 GHz an oscillator with sin wave (sin wave is less efficient than square wave) and imagine yourself the output when amplitude of signal is raised to 220 v before feeding the coil using just a rechargeable 9v battery or a simple circuit as Jes Ascanius described where we use energy dumped in supercap.
(I wanted to get here with my proposed home power generator, but nobody wanted to go further lack of response on topic).
To calculate the wire length required for a frequency of 2.4 GHz (2.4 gigahertz), we can rearrange the formula for wavelength:
λ=c/f
Where:
λ is the wavelength in meters.
c is the speed of light, m/s
f is the frequency in hertz (Hz).
We want to find L, which is half the wavelength of the wire. So:
L=λ/2
First, calculate the wavelength λ for a frequency of 2.4 GHz than.
Using formulae from above we get: - for a frequency of 2.4 GHz, the wire length required for a half-wavelength is approximately 6.25 centimetres.
What would be multiple 1/2 wave length to keep it resonant ?
To keep a wire resonant, we can use multiples of half-wavelengths (λ/2) as the wire's length. To find the lengths that will maintain resonance, we can use the formula:
Ln=nλ/2
Where:
Ln is the length of the wire for the n-th resonance mode.
n is the mode number (1 for the fundamental mode, 2 for the second harmonic, 3 for the third harmonic, and so on).
λ is the wavelength corresponding to the desired frequency.
In this case, we want to maintain resonance at a frequency of 2.4 GHz, which we calculated earlier to have a wavelength
λ of 6.25 centimetres for the half-wavelength.
Now, let's find the lengths for the first few resonance modes:
Fundamental mode (n = 1):
L1 = 3.125cm
Second harmonic (n = 2):
L2 = 6.25cm
Third harmonic (n = 3):
L3 = 9.375cm
These are the lengths of wire that will be resonant at the 2.4 GHz frequency and its harmonics. You can choose any of these lengths to achieve resonance at the desired frequency
So, the higher the frequency the shorter the wire => more concentrated power in a small area ... unfortunately this will lead to some electronic components unavailable off the self or near impossible to make it diy in a household.
A simple description that comes to my mind to use an example give by N Tesla: imagine a huge sledgehammer that is hitting with a large amplitude movement million of times per minute ... just try to imagine the power generated. And this is not sf story but just a simple circuit which can be scaled up for your needs.
Also, i want to stress out that i will prefer easy to understand words and principle as anyone who read with basic knowledge acquired from national compulsory education system would understand and being able to replicate with minimum skill set.
Circuit in the patent reminds me of user Sperics advice for a basic overunity effect in the AVEC device. But he advises that voltages over 1 kV are needed to see the effect.
(https://i.ibb.co/Mg6zYbs/Unbenannt.jpg)
@ Classic
What voltage is nessesary in your opinion?
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.21, 17:34:07
Anyone can suggest something cheap for signal generator with an output of lets say 110 v and above 3 MHz ?
110V
RMS into 50Ω load is 242W so what you need is a RF power amplifier that can handle 3MHz.
If you need a 3MHz square wave then the amplifier better be able to handle 3MHz to 300MHz.
For example one like that.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234942339288?hash=item36b3a798d8:g:REcAAOSw-lZkGyuP
...or you can build your own.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 08:52:07
To understand what i am speaking about let's say (an improbable diy project) we decide to use a wireless wifi router circuit to get 2.4 GHz an oscillator with sin wave
The output of a 2.4GHz WiFi router is not a continuous sine wave and its power is only milliwatts.
There is not an easy way to change that waveform nor to amplify it to hundreds of watts.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 08:52:07
sin wave is less efficient than square wave
In what manner ?
Thank you for reply, this is a very good question.
Necessary voltage should be chose upon available parts on your budget. If your aim for test/experiment keep it low if you have accurate mean to measure.
If accurate building of device is maintained we should expect at least 8% gain for fundamental resonance.
Although, we can discuss and suggest available parts for a specific output if desired. And I think this is the main concern for anyone looking to have an excess energy device within a certain budget where bespoke solution isn't a realistic option.
Also, accurate build and size is necessary to avoid inefficiency as the gain is just above error margin for a simple and cheap build without cascading.
So, my answer is voltage must be chose in respect of clean clean wave form (square is the best, although sawtooth or sine is fine for a higher frequency) and capacitors handling below 10 pico farads, where capacitors need to be able to use at least 2x voltage input for fundamental resonance or more if n harmonics will be used with multiple of 1/2 wave length.
3-5 harmonics to keep the price down should be enough with 9-12v input imo.
If anyone can share a solution for cheap off the shelf or diy signal generator capable of at least 20MHz, eventually with +95% efficiency, let's say in range of £10-50 would be greatly appreciate. As this is the most expensive part apart from cost of wire, capacitors under 10 pico up to 700v are well below £0.9 at the moment.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 14:07:17
The output of a 2.4GHz WiFi router is not a continuous sine wave and its power is only milliwatts.
There is not an easy way to change that waveform nor to amplify it to hundreds of watts.
In what manner ?
Thank you very much for valuable input, is much appreciated. Please see attached screenshot about wave form to be preferred.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 13:52:48
110VRMS into 50Ω load is 242W so what you need is a RF power amplifier that can handle 3MHz.
If you need a 3MHz square wave then the amplifier better be able to handle 3MHz to 300MHz.
For example one like that.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234942339288?hash=item36b3a798d8:g:REcAAOSw-lZkGyuP
...or you can build your own.
Ohh, this one exceed by far any kind of budget that i have in my mind.
My aim is to offer a real alternative on very low budget. But this can be an option for someone who decide to spend some money to seek off the grid independence for a household or little production facility.
Or at least something feasible on lease where some business can take advantage of open source ... but i wouldn't go this way.
If a real solution can be found that work at least at 95% efficiency I can bet that in less than a month we can buy it from aliexpress or amazon for a fraction of the cost.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 15:52:32
Ohh, this one exceed by far any kind of budget that i have in my mind.
Then all that's left to you is to build an RF power amplifier yourself.
Do you need an analog amplifier or a digital amplifier? (the latter can amplify only square waveforms).
Do you need the output waveform to be unipolar or bipolar ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 16:41:57
Then all that's left to you is to build an RF power amplifier yourself.
Do you need an analog amplifier or a digital amplifier? (the latter can amplify only square waveforms).
Do you need the output waveform to be unipolar or bipolar ?
Probably a digital amplifier would do a better job. Initially i though i may use a cheap variant for £4-10 or eventually up to £30-40 for 1 MHz low voltage from amazon or aliexpress than boost the voltage ... probably another £5 ... but the wave form distortion would make it almost useless.
Trying to find out were such device is currently used an is available for a decent price ... otherwise we have to spend a lot more on wires and the size of device would be significant increased especially if we go for 5 harmonics.
At 3 MHz we need 50 meters for each 1/2 wave length, although i'm not sure if 3 MHz would be enough to see some benefit. Probably anything above 1 GHz would show beyond doubt ou and easier to measure without any need for extremely precise instruments.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 17:07:40
Probably a digital amplifier would do a better job.
OK, that's half of an answer. What about the other half ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.22, 17:15:41
OK, that's half of an answer. What about the other half ?
It need to be bipolar for the effect to take place, we need both components to reach max amplitude at max negative and max positive. As electrons in adjacent wires needs to pass next to each other in opposite direction, with approximative duty of 60-80% for max effect.
I can see that a 60% duty will be at lowest efficient where gain is possible and 80% might be the ideal. Also my guess is once you go above 80% duty in a perfect square wave you may start to draw more power, means less efficient ... but this is for trial and error.
But i want to mention the a little distortion isn't necessarily bad and a slightly trapezoidal wave form instead of square may be desired as can be observed in drawings that make part of patent.
Probably my reference to some cheap components powered by batteries might give the impression that a square wave with zero voltage for negative is something useful in this setup, i apologise for confusion and my only excuse is a silly rush to find a cheap alternative.
So, using unipolar instead of bipolar will wash down the drain efficiency by at least 70% nullifying any potential gain resulting in a net loss i/o
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.22, 18:48:55
It need to be bipolar for the effect to take place, ...
So you will need at least two RF power transistors to construct a push-pull amplifier and two gate driver chips for driving them. Something like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1526.0;attach=10873).
For example these NXP transistors:
https://youtu.be/KUErft9weVo
I think that 30MHz is easily achievable with these but for higher frequencies and several hundreds of Watts you'd need two of the rugged ACT LDMOS Transistors made by Ampleon.
https://www.youtube.com/@ampleon6084/videos
Of course once you have a powerful RF amplifier you can be tempted to replicate other patents, too. For example this one (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2925.0;attach=18152).
P.S.
Repurposing commercial devices will be hard because they just do not use RF powers above 5W (more like milliwatts), unless you have access to old military radio gear or CB power amplifiers, HF HAM amplifiers etc... and they are not cheap and many of them will have a problem reproducing rectangular waveforms.
Thank you very much verpies.
I just revisited some of my calculations and it seems that the input voltage should be under 20 v AC (so, any voltage between 6 and 20 v will do the job) while frequency can go as high as possible. All I need is a square wave generator capable of +30 MHz able to maintain a pretty clean wave form. Clearly would be easier to cascade few circuits and a lot cheaper. As my intention is not to power the whole town but just a small household.
I a working in parallel on few projects, while waiting for delivery of components.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.23, 07:27:22
I just revisited some of my calculations and it seems that the input voltage should be under 20 v AC (so, any voltage between 6 and 20 v will do the job) while frequency can go as high as possible. All I need is a square wave generator capable of +30 MHz able to maintain a pretty clean wave form.
For such low output voltages this might be an option for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325822364842?hash=item4bdc86bcaa:g:aFcAAOSwrLpiJycv1
I think Itsu has a similar one. Ask him what is the max amplitude it outputs and if it can do bipolar rectangular waves of varying duty cycles.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 10:03:35
For such low output voltages this might be an option for you.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325822364842?hash=item4bdc86bcaa:g:aFcAAOSwrLpiJycv1
I think Itsu has a similar one. Ask him what is the max amplitude it outputs and if it can do bipolar rectangular waves of varying duty cycles.
;D ;D ;D
I just spent half of morning just to conclude that a dds signal generator is what i need and i opened the forum to post exact same product ... the only problem is delivery time
Here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4471.msg104896#msg104896) Itsu wrote that his NanoVNA outputs a square wave up to ~2GHz and I think it fits in your budget.
I wonder if this one isn't a better option
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C2QZVW9R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1UVPWM0U8T1NP&th=1
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.23, 15:12:35
I wonder if this one isn't a better option
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C2QZVW9R/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1UVPWM0U8T1NP&th=1
Yes, square waves up to 25MHz but before you buy find out if you can vary the duty cycle at this frequency at all.
...but 25MHz is far cry below 2GHz.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 16:16:01
Yes, square waves up to 25MHz but before you buy find out if you can vary the duty cycle at this frequency at all.
...but 25MHz is far cry below 2GHz.
I just double checked and in description says fully adjustable duty cycle.
If you make a reference for nanoVNA, it seems that they don't have any output unless, it is an TinySAUltra for £160 plus tax and delivery
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.23, 19:24:12
I just double checked and in description says fully adjustable duty cycle.
It is very likely that this is true only at less than the maximum frequency. Make sure it is true always or you will be very disappointed.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.23, 19:24:12
If you make a reference for nanoVNA, it seems that they don't have any output unless, it is an TinySAUltra for £160 plus tax and delivery
All VNAs must provide output or they would not be VNAs. It is called "stimulus" in their jargon.
However, not all VNAs support "zero-span" sweeps.
In meantime i've done a little bit of math to relax from stress of sourcing components ;D and i found some values:
A. 0.2 mm thick wire, 30 meters of each wire, and 500 mm outside diameter, with approx 19.09 turns, capacitance of the bifilar coil is approximately 9.425 picofarads (pF), and inductance is approximately 368.1 nano henrys (nH), Q= 6272.
- calculations based on certain assumptions and approximations, precise values may vary depending on factors like dielectric constant of the insulation of magnet wire and the exact winding geometry.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.23, 19:57:10
It is very likely that this is true only at less than the maximum frequency. Make sure it is true always or you will be very disappointed.
All VNAs must provide output or they would not be VNAs. It is called "stimulus" in their jargon.
However, not all VNAs support "zero-span" sweeps.
I'm afraid you lost me here.
All i need is a simple thing that needs to do a create one single effect and this thing to be incorporated into another thing, but altogether need to be let's say inexpensive and as much possible made with off the shelf components without the need for an expert skillset. Even if this mean i won't get a Ferrari in terms of performance or design.
Simple to make and use, easy to reach anywhere in the world.
If it would be for my back garden shed probably few tens of thousands would be more than enough to have a wonder or even couple and mostly i'm not holding back anything if it is in my reach but, it is not my aim.
While few small devices that i want them in the open for the benefit of everyone.
Of course there are many other design of different devices that operate on same principles but my money are with Arie deGeus which proved affordable and very efficient devices backed up in the open by almost complete calculus, theories and prototypes in many fields.
Also my mind is boiling to see some action from few asymmetric capacitors put together powered by almost limitless power but i am prrety sure this attract to many dark things too close, so i keep dreaming about them yet.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.23, 21:31:00
I'm afraid you lost me here.
All i need is a simple thing that needs to do a create one single effect
Yeah, you needed a source of high frequency square wave below 100GBP and this VNA fulfills these conditions. It outputs signals up to 2GHz.
Do you have something that goes to higher f or is cheaper ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.24, 13:29:10
Yeah, you needed a source of high frequency square wave below 100GBP and this VNA fulfills these conditions. It outputs signals up to 2GHz.
Do you have something that goes to higher f or is cheaper ?
This is exactly what i am looking for and if you don't mind, please point out for me please, which one is and where i can find instructions and specifications of capabilities ?
He has one so he has all these answers.
See this post (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4511.msg107205#msg107205).
There are several types of nanoVNA's, i have the one from DEEPELEC the NanoVNA-F at HardWare level HW3.1 running firmware level 1.05 which expands its range to 2.7GHz (start frequency 10kHz).
Be aware that it uses harmonics to get to this 2.7GHz, so the output signal is max. 300MHz
This nanoVNA and some info can be found here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000402236126.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.slider_2006565803538.1
https://nanovna.com/?page_id=60
regards Itsu
Hmm, if I consider nanoVNA and tinySA i have to chose from 3 options with next day delivery as im not willing to wait months for half price
1. £56 nanoVNA-H
2. £85 nanoVNA-H4
3. £78 tinySA
The favourite is option 1 for the price, but all 3 taken in consideration depending on their output in usable form for my purpose. I found really hard to discover what exactly they deliver in the form that I need or if there is an adjustable duty as I need to get time on for 3/8 of wavelength with pretty sharp raise/fall and almost no time off to get 2 oscillations per wave length peak to peak. Where wave length is determined by the output frequency at low voltage.
Anyone know where to find necessary info to compare and help me to decide ?
Obviously I don't need all capabilities of this device, if anyone can propose another solution i am willing to try.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.25, 08:49:12
if there is an adjustable duty as I need to get time on for 3/8 of wavelength with pretty sharp raise/fall
If you do not need digital adjustments, then this circuit will generate rectangular waveforms with variable duty cycle. It is very cheap.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1556.0;attach=31116)
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.25, 10:47:59
If you do not need digital adjustments, then this circuit will generate rectangular waveforms with variable duty cycle. It is very cheap.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1556.0;attach=31116)
I am far from being an expert in electronics
If you are able to build an signal generator that will output any fixed frequency between 50 and 300 mhz with 5- 10 v and on/off time for a square or sight trapezeiodal wave as per patent drawing as described above and patent, will be happy to purchase it from you if a price and delivery time can be agreed.
If possible i would prefer 250-300 mhz range if wouldn't draw too much power from source in order to preserve some efficiency in system.
In meantime i finished almost all calculus for the original setup described in patent ... all whats missing is a formula or a relation between coil former and operating frequency, as always i try to build something useful not toys or proof of concept, maybe few more days and i will have all necessary details.
My only missing part is an oscillator :'( i can gather all rest within a week.
Probably i will have to build at least 2 devices to compare, if anyone else is interested to join I can provide intermediary findings and details.
This is for those who likes to play in simulator mode with new devices.
Details of original system as per patent:
Power source = 20 VAC
Coil shape/construction = cylinder/bifilar 1.1 mm diameter enamelled copper wire 300 turns on 165 mm diameter former,
Length of wire 157611 mm in total, 4 harmonics at multiple 1/2 wave length corresponding to 8.5 MHz from SG
Capacitance C = 1.81 pF
Inductance = 0.575 mH
Calculated for resistance R = 1.72 ohms
Q factor = 31431.6 :D
2 capacitors placed in dead middle of the wire (center tap) in series 3 pF + 6 pF safety caps for 135 degree phase shift, or 2x0.5 pF for 180 degree phase shift,
Signal generator 8.5 MHz square wave
Expected output = input + 8% (prototype, proof of concept) Exceptional efficiency with very low losses and no need for fiddling and painful adjustments.
For scale up: increase frequency, which can will lead to decrease of length of wire while increasing the thickness, aspect ratio of coil must be maintained where diameter of coil former must be at least half of the length and can be calculated using formula from patent for inductance in respect with cross section area of conductor and number of turns. Also choosing length of wire must be 1/2 multiple of wave length, where 4 harmonics ratio should be maintained.
Cascading multiple circuits is desired to multiply the output without impractical solutions impinged upon circuit.
Also using toroidal coil will lead to extra 10% gain, but i don't have any calculus. Worth to mention that cylindrical coil is less efficient of the 3 methods, where bifilar spiral flat coil is mid range and toroid is best but they add on difficulty to build.
Maximum attention for details is essential !
For any concern at any point please refer to explanations in the patent as guidance, everything you need is clearly exposed and explained.
If anyone want to double check my calculation is highly appreciated, as there might be some non conform approximations or possible errors, probably easy done in a simulator software which I don't have available.
You did not account for inter-turn capacitance.
You did not account for the resistance of the wire with skin effect and proximity effect.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.26, 10:39:39
You did not account for inter-turn capacitance.
Indeed, my bad.
Many thanks for double check
So, with four decimal precision, the values are:
Total Capacitance C : 1.8100 pF
Inductance L : 0.0005750 H
Q Factor : 19435.0811
New figures with added inter turns capacitance.
I will try to redo calculus with skin effect and proximity when I can get access to software simulator. If anyone can do this would be great as it might take few weeks for me.
They have been taken in account by Arie deGeus as we can see in the patent.
Regarding resistance there will be a decrease because of high frequency and I really doubt that the inventor has possibly underestimated potential losses induced by skin effect and proximity effect.
In fact Arie deGeus has achieved nearly superconducting effect which is explained in cyclotron patent where ohmic resistance in conductors is lost to 95% (at room temperature ;D )
Overall my guess is these 2 effects unaccounted will lead to a different inductance, little influence on capacitance and Q factor reduction where a Q factor will still be high enough to overcome low losses and enable ultra efficiency demonstrated.
Probably build and test would be a faster way for me than finding faults in this invention as i mention again: working device has been presented before patent office, along with theory, calculus and method and modus operandi.
As we can see in his patent he only left open the gate for scaling up while also inviting for build and exploit by telling us what to do in order to achieve, once we understand how (and why) it work.
Also i want to add, that I consider myself a builder with a taste for experiments and usually i follow guidelines as much as i can and as much as i understand the working principle for all replications I've made. And my approach is to build to prove or use for myself needs, sharing my findings for public in the open and i am not ashamed to be an idiot, as i don't know everything if anything at all.
Fig. 1 a,b and c is a sensible approach regarding proximity and skin effect with addition of aether into equation so, for as long as mainstream science deny aether existence i rather do not attempt to simulate or calculate anything, while using all other elements easy to understand for everyone else and trust the inventor.
Really, it is the inter-winding capacitance as I pointed out previously that you are missing which will greatly affect your calculations and performance. For example, 1.1mm enameled wire when tightly bifilar wound will exhibit ~ 50pf/M. Therefore, 157.6 meters of wire will have ~7.9nF of inter-winding capacitance. How much signal will one be able to couple to these bifilar windings with only 1-10pf in series along with a 180 degrees phase shift?
IMO, very little.
Pm
Quote from: partzman on 2023.09.26, 13:19:43
Really, it is the inter-winding capacitance as I pointed out previously that you are missing which will greatly affect your calculations and performance. For example, 1.1mm enameled wire when tightly bifilar wound will exhibit ~ 50pf/M. Therefore, 157.6 meters of wire will have ~7.9nF of inter-winding capacitance. How much signal will one be able to couple to these bifilar windings with only 1-10pf in series along with a 180 degrees phase shift?
IMO, very little.
Pm
Many thanks for your valuable input, is much appreciated as it helps to bring more enlightenment in this working principle of the patent
According to my calculations inter winding will add 7.34 x 10@-14 F, result in being negligible (in terms of total capacitance)... maybe i am wrong or you just miscount some zeros.
Also, we are not talking about coupling anything as we use wire connection output and in case of cascading wire connection should be used as they need to be placed at some distance apart to avoid interference as per patent description. Also, i think i already stressed enough that those 2 capacitors are placed there for phase shift only and their capacitance needs to be small not to affect the impedance but big enough to make possible phase shift, hence value suggested "at least half pico Farad" but "no more than 10 pico Farad" and choosing" 1 of the 2 with half value of the other" ... or maybe i have described this in a different thread ???
Also, in claims of the patent we can find that by using other different values of one of the 2 in series different angle shift can be obtained.
Also, if your reference to capacity is regarded to similar devices aka kapanadze, don smith, akula ... indeed there it is needed mutual inductance, but this device is much simplified without the need of many other effects in order to amplify and extract energy from the aether ... and in some similar devices we can see coils connected by wires at neccessary distance to prevent interfernce.
We can see how the "non existent aether" create so much trouble when we work with fe and ou. That's why we need to acknowledge first where ou and fe coming from and how to manipulate to benefit from it.
As i explained above, I am trying to avoid dragging the dialogue on this side and possibly focus on build and prove. And once we have them built and working we can discuss further the existence or non existence of something that mainstream science say it don't exist according to their limited understanding.
So, the main purpose is to build, and make it easy to replicate within some guidelines easy to follow and enjoy the benefits.
Also, attempts to scale up would prove beyond doubts what inventor claims with poof, theory method and instructions.
This remind me of anomalous long lasting batteries experiment which being unexplainable (in their terms) has put people off to use it for their on benefit and still using wrong against their own interest electricity storage in power banks for household solar/wind generation, electric vehicles and everywhere a battery is required. Yes, i am speaking about +100 times more usage of the same amount of energy.
Also i welcome anyone to join and ask or even build if they want and once is proved this patent at least for themselves those who build we can discuss way and method to scale up.
Hi Classic,
some 8 years ago i did a replication of this NL1032759 patent of Arie deGeus together with Peterae and also Smudge was involved.
Somehow i cannot find the thread anymore where we were discussing this.
It could be a hidden thread, but i am not able to retrieve it somehow.
What i do have is some 9 video's i made during this replication (Arie 1 - Arie 9) which are linked below.
The outcome was that we could not detect any abnormalities in this setup.
For what its worth, here are the links to my 9 video's:
https://youtu.be/ZP2aUDFmARo
https://youtu.be/Eq4HN4_Ld6Y
https://youtu.be/m1mNroJnVwI
https://youtu.be/sCeJSbDxVmc
https://youtu.be/hBuyy3VK95I
https://youtu.be/Pzp-bE_Tjok
https://youtu.be/hTfELHmrvOc
https://youtu.be/o7FcJJ1sswY
https://youtu.be/R4vc23FFXYI
Good luck, regards Itsu
Hi itsu,
First of all thank you very much for your valuable input and help with oscillator part.
I wonder why do you expect to see any "anomalies" with this setup ? Please show me where in patent drawings or explanations can we observe same build as you did ?
Have a look at fig.1 a,b and c and point out for me where this is happening in your design/attempt to replicate, please.
Also construction and aspect do not match anywhere explanations and instructions in patent where cylindrical coils need to be rather large and short where i found that ratio for device explained in patent is d=l/2 where l is length of coil and d is diameter.
Also, using sine wave instead of square
Ignoring skin and proximity effects, please show me what is the relation between length of wire, capacitance and inductance in respect of frequency injected in your device, if there is any and compare with my findings and calculus.
You may want to blur a bit some of your equipment unless you intend to suggest something to those watching your vids. Or maybe is a warning shot ?
Honestly I'm not impressed to see another electroboom video or to acknowledge that there is many of them ready to "debunk" anything as you did in those vids.
Hi Classic,
QuoteI wonder why do you expect to see any "anomalies" with this setup ?
its what the title of this patent suggests:
Increase of electrical energy by means of absorption of Zero - Energy.QuotePlease show me where in patent drawings or explanations can we observe same build as you did ?
We opted for the cylindrical setup fig. 3B out of the 3 available setups see page 5 of your linked patent above:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4511.0;attach=49129;image)
QuoteHave a look at fig.1 a,b and c and point out for me where this is happening in your design/attempt to replicate, please.
Impossible as these figures are for all 3 possible setups, see above drawing fig.3a, 3b and 3c.
QuoteYou may want to blur a bit some of your equipment unless you intend to suggest something to those watching your vids. Or maybe is a warning shot ?
Not sure what you mean here, why would i blur my equipment? What should i suppose to suggest? Why would this be a warning shot?
We debunked nothing, we worked hard to replicate what is in that patent, and we got not the least of persons to advise (Smudge, Peterae).
But as mentioned, we were not able to detect any abnormalities like "
Increase of electrical energy by means of absorption of Zero - Energy."
Regards Itsu
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 13:40:49
Many thanks for your valuable input, is much appreciated as it helps to bring more enlightenment in this working principle of the patent
According to my calculations inter winding will add 7.34 x 10@-14 F, result in being negligible (in terms of total capacitance)... maybe i am wrong or you just miscount some zeros.
Also, we are not talking about coupling anything as we use wire connection output and in case of cascading wire connection should be used as they need to be placed at some distance apart to avoid interference as per patent description. Also, i think i already stressed enough that those 2 capacitors are placed there for phase shift only and their capacitance needs to be small not to affect the impedance but big enough to make possible phase shift, hence value suggested "at least half pico Farad" but "no more than 10 pico Farad" and choosing" 1 of the 2 with half value of the other" ... or maybe i have described this in a different thread ???
Also, in claims of the patent we can find that by using other different values of one of the 2 in series different angle shift can be obtained.
Also, if your reference to capacity is regarded to similar devices aka kapanadze, don smith, akula ... indeed there it is needed mutual inductance, but this device is much simplified without the need of many other effects in order to amplify and extract energy from the aether ... and in some similar devices we can see coils connected by wires at neccessary distance to prevent interfernce.
We can see how the "non existent aether" create so much trouble when we work with fe and ou. That's why we need to acknowledge first where ou and fe coming from and how to manipulate to benefit from it.
As i explained above, I am trying to avoid dragging the dialogue on this side and possibly focus on build and prove. And once we have them built and working we can discuss further the existence or non existence of something that mainstream science say it don't exist according to their limited understanding.
So, the main purpose is to build, and make it easy to replicate within some guidelines easy to follow and enjoy the benefits.
Also, attempts to scale up would prove beyond doubts what inventor claims with poof, theory method and instructions.
This remind me of anomalous long lasting batteries experiment which being unexplainable (in their terms) has put people off to use it for their on benefit and still using wrong against their own interest electricity storage in power banks for household solar/wind generation, electric vehicles and everywhere a battery is required. Yes, i am speaking about +100 times more usage of the same amount of energy.
Also i welcome anyone to join and ask or even build if they want and once is proved this patent at least for themselves those who build we can discuss way and method to scale up.
Classic,
I'm a little confused because I based my calcs on your numbers-
Power source = 20 VAC
Coil shape/construction = cylinder/bifilar 1.1 mm diameter enamelled copper wire 300 turns on 165 mm diameter former,
Length of wire 157611 mm in total, 4 harmonics at multiple 1/2 wave length corresponding to 8.5 MHz from SG
Capacitance C = 1.81 pF
Inductance = 0.575 mH
Calculated for resistance R = 1.72 ohms
Q factor = 31431.6 Based on this, your I-W capacitance would be ~50e-12*157.6 ~ 7.88nF. If in total you mean each winding is 157.6m/2 = 78.8m, then your I-W would still be 3.94nF.
Pm
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 16:20:44
You may want to blur a bit some of your equipment unless you intend to suggest something to those watching your vids. Or maybe is a warning shot ?
He bought that scope on a surplus Australian military auction long time ago. He is not Australian military nor does he live in Australia. Actually, he lives quite close to you.
P.S.
Partzman's calculations are correct.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.26, 17:23:16
Hi Classic,
its what the title of this patent suggests: Increase of electrical energy by means of absorption of Zero - Energy.
We opted for the cylindrical setup fig. 3B out of the 3 available setups see page 5 of your linked patent above:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4511.0;attach=49129;image)
Impossible as these figures are for all 3 possible setups, see above drawing fig.3a, 3b and 3c.
Not sure what you mean here, why would i blur my equipment? What should i suppose to suggest? Why would this be a warning shot?
We debunked nothing, we worked hard to replicate what is in that patent, and we got not the least of persons to advise (Smudge, Peterae).
But as mentioned, we were not able to detect any abnormalities like "Increase of electrical energy by means of absorption of Zero - Energy."
Regards Itsu
Hi itsu,
First of all i need to apologise for harsh critic, i only can blame my temperament.
So, the approach on your build is almost fundamental wrong of we pay attention to explanations in patent.
I have to admit that not enough explanation has been given from my side either and i will try to address the issue.
The coil needs to be wound tide as conductors must have as little as possible distance between them where the electric flow run in opposite direction. Also i have to admit that i have deliberately ommited to mention the real motive of why I am not bothered by skin and proximity effect which i will explain as someone is concerned about additional capacitance introduced by interwind capacitance.
If we read correct information given in the patent, the inventor mention that coils need to be wound tide "altough some with some space" where is the case to avoid interwind capacitance.
This means, that the said conductor wound in bifilar must be tide against each other ONLY where they run electric flow in opposite direction and some space in between. Means winding will be in pair of two parallel and space is between pairs.
Also this will lead to obtaining some extra bifilar at each end that will be surplus of 300 turns, which is exactly what we need for connections.
So, i suggest for winding bifilar to add a 3rd wire and wound trifilar where additional wire will be removed after finishing coil and will leave an even gap between bifilar to bifilar. A sensible approach would be to calculate required gap as it will be less than 1.1 mm as desired cross section of wire to be used, or a fishing line can replace a wire and create less confusion. I still need to stress that is very important to maintain tide winding and bifilar running in opposite directions against each other must be in extremely close contact. Obviously their insulation to remain intact.
Also in the video with toroid use i can say is wrong as well, as windings must be tide in pair and must cover the whole ring and calculus should be done to find the right size in respect of wire length and wave length corresponding to frequency used for square signal and also material for the ring, which imo should be plastic not ferrite as it change adversely the outcome
Related to your equipment, i figure it out as verpies already mention, again, my apologise, as my interpretation was someone who just joined the thread is showing me an wrong built device and old military lab instrument and saying is nothing to see here, let's move along. It is probably wrong to judge like this. Probably an unfortunate coincidence.
Quote from: partzman on 2023.09.26, 17:58:55
Classic,
I'm a little confused because I based my calcs on your numbers-
Power source = 20 VAC
Coil shape/construction = cylinder/bifilar 1.1 mm diameter enamelled copper wire 300 turns on 165 mm diameter former,
Length of wire 157611 mm in total, 4 harmonics at multiple 1/2 wave length corresponding to 8.5 MHz from SG
Capacitance C = 1.81 pF
Inductance = 0.575 mH
Calculated for resistance R = 1.72 ohms
Q factor = 31431.6
Based on this, your I-W capacitance would be ~50e-12*157.6 ~ 7.88nF. If in total you mean each winding is 157.6m/2 = 78.8m, then your I-W would still be 3.94nF.
Pm
Well, if i said in total length of wire, means all the wire necessary to wind the coil in bifilar, maybe we are using different formula for calculus as I double check again and figures are correct on my side. Although i have made adjustment even not necessary for "unaccounted" interwind capacitance, see explanation above.
For easy winding, the wire can be folded in half and ulterior cut, i used mm in calculations to improve precision/tolerance but using centimetres is fine.
How am I proceeding when decide to replicate ? First read of patent and evaluation of skillset and materials also availability of materials/ components.
Second read where i try to visualise the final product, than advance to details and mode of operation, study and find principles that apply and evaluate how much of the build involve principle or mechanism that i am not familiar with, evaluate informative resources and their accuracy.
Than step by step describe on paper or computer each stage and guidelines. Analyse strength and weak points on my skillset and knowledge according to each phase of build for each component. Proceed with calculus and return to patent specification to check if guidance my my guidelines correspond and correct. This is the stage where issues need to be sorted out or more clarification needed ... e.g. spacing bifilar which I understood later when performing calculus.
I need to mention that i do not hold anything back, but before to have a working device built makes no sense to write a "how to" manual and if anyone needs to know a specific detail that i am aware i am glad to share.
Also I appreciate any further questions or challenges as they only help for a positive outcome while also contribute for better and deeper understanding of patent and approach to new form of matter which will be soon acknowledged by many.
Classic
Fairly horrible comments you made to itsu
And consistent throughout "NIXing"things without
Discussion ?
Also,
Classic
Quote
Also i want to add, that I consider myself a builder with a taste for experiments and usually i follow guidelines as much as i can and as much as i understand the working principle for all replications I've made. And my approach is to build to prove or use for myself needs, sharing my findings for public in the open and i am not ashamed to be an idiot, as i don't know everything if anything at all.
End quote
Please post your prior work ( you wrote above that you shared open source?)
Persons who arrive with new handles ( persons here typically don't change handles )
And "You" Claiming 15 years or more FE research and experience?
Your demeanor and behavior here is all to familiar...
And unacceptable !
Perhaps you go by another handle ...?
Yeesh
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 20:49:49
The coil needs to be wound tide as conductors must have as little as possible distance between them
Did you mean ?:
"The coil needs to be wound tight..."
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 20:49:49
or a fishing line can replace a wire and create less confusion.
If the fishing line is not removed, its dielectric constant will further influence the intra-winding capacitance.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 20:49:49
... bifilar running in opposite directions against each other must be in extremely close contact. Obviously their insulation to remain intact.
The extremely close contact increases the intra-winding capacitance and the dielectric constant of the insulation affects it greatly.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.26, 20:54:48
Although i have made adjustment even not necessary for "unaccounted" interwind capacitance, see explanation above.
The intra-winding and inter-winding capacitance will rear its ugly head any time there is electric potential difference across a dielectric (including air).
@verpies, my bad,
1.i should say wires need to be wound tide not coils, thanks for observation.
2. I have specified the wire used for spacing needs to be removed after finishing the coil and the same apply if fishing line is used instead. But this is valid observation and thanks again for pointing out, as it helps for those who intend to build.
3. I will disregard observations related to inter and intra winding capacitance as they are part of non existent aether and I really don' t want to discuss in this stage this aspect. If still in doubt please refer to first part of patent description and literature mentioned.
I am trying to help where most of people can use something instead of pushing them to self educate.
I am going to state again that the purpose is to have as many as possible working devices built and people start benefiting from this invention.
@chetK
1. After i read what i wrote in a very temperamental impulse, i have apologised to itsu and indeed it was wrong and mean to write in that way. But my observations about his setup that have nothing to do with this patent stands.
I only can apologise again for the way i have communicate my observations.
2. My bad, it seems that i have create the impression that i am willing to share some of my previous work, which I am not. But i only wanted to say is I am willing to share all I know for this replication and i do have some experience and skills.
3. I am not quite sure if you are asking me to leave or you want to discipline me ? Please, clarify. :)
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.27, 10:13:25
3. I am not quite sure if you are asking me to leave or you want to discipline me ? Please, clarify. :)
I think he is asking you to reveal your username on overunity.com.
A member was banned at Stefan's forum recently ( prior to classic posting here) posted similar unsupported summaries ( no actual experiments to support)
Many times using YouTube vids to bolster unsupported claims.
Took over as many topics as he was able to ( with combative unsupported claims)
Then got moderated and went further with
horrific behavior towards Stefan offline ,he had to close forum membership .
Very similar behavior here ( smaller scale with a few plot twists )
Classic you seem to post over there under adrouk ( new member who recently got through new moderation policy there after
Closing of membership..
Yes there is no room for unsupported claims or YouTube as evidence here
Now I see you changed your "Always share" to never ?
Please no games here ...
You seem to make plenty of claims...and offer very strong statements (" it's all there " etc etc
And now you share nothing of your own and try to infer incompetence ,nefarious behavior /accusations in our host
And others ?( try to dismiss with "sorry "????)
Signal to noise is way off the charts ( signal being bench proof of claims , not wordy often corrected text)
I will speak with owner tonight about this ,
Your recent addendums to your willingness ( unwillingness) to share your own work,bring even more concern to " why are you here"?
And making incredible amounts of posts ...towards encouraging others to build ??and share ??
HUH ?
No problem at all, this will probably be my last post
Good bye everyone
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.27, 13:51:36
No problem at all, this will probably be my last post
So what Chet wrote about is true ?
Classic
Perhaps you should read Darren's Power and Creed again ( prerequisite for joining forum when you signed up)
Small preface attached in screenshot
PDF also attached below.
Please read again.
Tipping point for me is your false claims on Replication attempt ( you wrote "it's not In patent ")
As you are aware our host was also involved in this attempt.
Also the grotesque insinuations attached to your rebuttal!
If you can follow forum OU claims protocols ( build it yourself and prove it or submit for review by other builders)
This would be good, making broad OU claims with no empirical proof is forbidden here ( example: holding statement "it's all in the patent" as OU proof)
also etiquette between membership ,false accusations or insinuations ..unacceptable according to terms of service and guidelines.
Sincerely
Chet K
Ps
I have not asked for Peter or Darren's opinion yet in this matter
Nor will I if you can adhere to forum rules.( just like we all agreed to do here as part of accepting terms of service and additional guidelines )
It seems "Classic" is not able to access this forum anymore according to a comment he made under one of my old YouTube videos.
That comment can be seen here (he goes by the name of Caesarus2011): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDZZUSZkG4Y
Itsu
will ask Peter
don't think any administration action is responsible
I believe members can remove their own membership
And he is no longer listed as a member .
Chet
EDIT
Just spoke with Grumage
And it does seem no administration action is involved
Will ring Peter in a few hours just to be certain ( he is still at work ATM
I just got a PM from Classic that somehow he again has access to this forum.
Itsu
In post #39 of this thread i mentioned:
"some 8 years ago i did a replication of this NL1032759 patent of Arie deGeus together with Peterae and also Smudge was involved.
Somehow i cannot find the thread anymore where we were discussing this."
After consulting Peterae (admin) it seems that i (and others??) was looked out for seeing this thread somehow which is now resolved.
So this thread where we were discussing this NL1032759 patent is here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2897.0
I can see it again, hopefully everybody else too, if not please send a PM to Peterae.
Perhaps it contains some good info about this patent which others could use.
I do not have this setup anymore, so i am not able to provide any additional data other than what is shown in this thread / videos.
Regards Itsu
Many thanks for reply itsu, i really appreciate your effort.
I have spent some time reading all the posts again as i was able to do a while ago in Peterae bench but has disapeared somehow after i started this thread and could not find again.
All i can say, it was pretty close to prove as long as guidelines has been adhered and i can observe, every little alteration has lead the outcome outside of the purpose of patent.
It seems the most of people are afraid somehow to trust an inventor and when replicating they diverge from guides outlined in patents, or overlook some important details based own their own experience and this apply for almost all attempts to replicate any other devices that i have seen in this forum.
I can understand and is a valid point that some automatisms exist especially for those with vast experience and it might be a correct explanation for failures. Also, analysing some opinions makes me think that probably someone has had the results needed and probably a working device, not necessary an user from this forum. (my guess)
So, i want to point out that this is my approach and what i consider to be important in order to achieve desired outcome.
1. Frequency requirement is a must. This is the heart of device and everything is calculated upon it, not other way.
2. Correct length of wire (as little difference would render all outcome undesirable).
3. Correct connections at specified points. As fig2 in patent drawings
4. Correct aspect ratio and number of turns. As per description in patent in 2 separate sections.
5. Correct phase shift with the help of 2 capacitors in series with correct capacity as per patent description.
When i will have all parts i will perform calculations again according to parts i can get where signal generator is the main issue yet.
I am not making any claims and everything should be read as an attempt to replicate as per thread name. And indeed i make reference to patent description almost all the time where i consider is the utmost importance. After all is a replication attempt where assumption that we do not posses the same knowledge as inventor is taken in account.
I wil not try to outsmart the inventor at any point and if you want to see it like that i am an idiot who knows nothing, but I trust the inventor where he proved with a working device when a patent has been granted and in his generosity shared almost all info to replicate.
Looking at patent on espacenet i found a slightly different translation https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/039564703/publication/NL1032759C1?q=NL1032759
QuoteThe method and apparatus are for the withdrawal of zero point energy from space for the increase of electro-magnetic field energy, translated into increased kinetic energy of 'free' electrons established by oscillation of two electro-magnetic fields with a single frequency, but with a phase difference. Parallel conductors are used, which have a reduced distance from one another. In operation, the apparatus has a cylinder length of its double winding of 33 cm and a winding diameter of 16.5 cm. A magnet wire thickness with insulation of 1.1 mm is used and with the application of a block voltage of 21 volts, with a ferquency of approximately 8.5 MHz a capacity increase or near 8 per cent is measured (measurement is carried out with instruments whose accuracy is at 8.5 MHz). If input voltages at higher frequencies are obtained or can be secured, there is the possibility for free electrical energy to be obtained and at each scale level. The correct choice of wire length, inductances and capacities in respect of the input frequencies can be selected with very few losses occurring, whereby the number of these circuits must be formed as a 'cascade'.
I think a second translation might offer some other clues. If someone bother to analyse each component in this circuit and what they doing step by step may discover interesting things.
I did not ordered yet any signal generator, as according to my new calculus and analyse i found that i may use an unipolar square wave as well or instead ... need more work to find the outcome.
My attempt is to replicate this system at a very affordable low cost and i have no interest to just prove that work as this part has been done by the inventor himself.
So, if anyone can find a cheap signal generator capable of clean square wave with adjustable duty for 20-30 MHz, any little voltage above 1v where we can additional boost voltage with low cost solution.
Minimum 20 mhz square wave output is essential as it would have 2 effects that i am looking for: 1. length of wire will be shorted bringing the cost down and 2. Better output with less necessary additional circuits cascade for domestic power generation.
I am thinking of approx £100-150 budget or less where everything is bought new off the shelf. This is an essential condition in my attempt.
Magnet wire approx £30
Ceramic Capacitors 0.5 pF 50 v £5 for 10 of them or few different capacities under 10 pf to play with them
Ceramic trimmer capacitors 0.3-0.6 pF under £5 for 10 of them
Power source + Signal generator £ 50 or less
Solution to collect in useable form for domestic use £50
Sounds feasible ?
Later edit: if someone ask why do we need a phase shift in a bifilar coil where we already have opposite flow of electrons in 2 conductors which are in close proximity to each other, the answer is simple: phase shift will introduce a magnetic delay. ;)
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.03, 10:43:04
Magnet wire approx £30
What diameter and length?
Quote from: Paul-R on 2023.10.03, 15:19:31
What diameter and length?
If we go for frequency above 20 MHz you may find some good options here: https://www.switchelectronics.co.uk/collections/copper-wire
Also they have caps as well at a very decent price not what they charge on amazon or whatever popular choice.
Lately amazon have became kind of useless where no selection can be made and prices are extreme robbery where a lot of fakes are allowed and not doing what they suggest their products doing.
It seems that "some distance" between bifilar (as per patent description) should be in range of fraction of the wire thickness (probably less than 1/2 of thickness of wire used) and not in multiple of wire thickness as seen in itsu replication attempt, as it is seen as a mitigation for skin effect and proximity effect.
I wonder if i can use for signal generator an "high elevated plate" with dimension to match desired frequency ? Even if there is just a small voltage
https://youtube.com/shorts/Lr6mwJiLAmo?si=mXsO9Jwe8DkdzL8X
It looks similar, isn't it ? :D
Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?
Quote from: Classic on 2023.11.05, 14:55:48
Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?
Are you serious ? are you tierd of living ? I ask this as what SG operates
at 4 GHZ and at 2-4 1000 volts output ?
Do your self a favour don't upset luved ones, dont mess with the micro wave.
Sil
Quote from: Classic on 2023.11.05, 14:55:48
Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?
Yes, but only for 2.4-2.5GHz, which can be amplitude modulated by its LF HV power supply, e.g.: 50-120Hz.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.11.05, 19:58:57
Are you serious ? are you tierd of living ? I ask this as what SG operates
at 4 GHZ and at 2-4 1000 volts output ?
Do your self a favour don't upset luved ones, dont mess with the micro wave.
Sil
You need to do better homework, all magnetrons in microwave ovens are set for the same frequency 2.45 GZ only difference between them is the power output.
We need to look around in domestic appliances and "misuse" them as Don Smith have tried to explain.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.11.05, 20:03:47
Yes, but only for 2.4-2.5GHz, which can be amplitude modulated by its LF HV power supply, e.g.: 50-120Hz.
Well, it looks like is the exact frequency that i need to inject in that bifilar coil. At 2.45 Ghz allow me to use very short wires for coil which will be perfect to obtain a decent small device.
I can't find what shape will be generated, as all device ou use a square wave. Also i need a solution to power the magnetron from 12v battery as I am gathering parts for it now ... similar with the one that i posted a Romanian patent.
Also, i wonder how can i increase capacitance in the bifilar coil without using huge amount of wire, as capacitance is the exact factor that dictate the output power.
There is few things that I have learned analysing many devices but I am not looking for a self runner, at least not yet. All I can say we need to change the way we use electricity and we need to let it flow instead of shorting it in our appliances unless we need to create some heat. Shorting is killing the source, nullify the gradient whichever we use.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.11.05, 20:48:47
You need to do better homework, all magnetrons in microwave ovens are set for the same frequency 2.45 GZ only difference between them is the power output.
The industrial microwave ovens use 915MHz magnetrons.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.11.05, 21:31:14
At 2.45 Ghz allow me to use very short wires for coil which will be perfect to obtain a decent small device.
...wires?!
Do you realize the skin-depth at 2.4GHz ?
Also, magnetrons emit EM waves, so you'd need to connect any electric current carrying "wires" to the coupling-loop of the magnetron without damaging the vacuum-seal. See the location of the "probe" in the diagram below. ...or build a microwave antenna.
(https://www.radartutorial.eu/08.transmitters/pic/mag_schnitt.png)
Just don't grind the ceramic neck because the dust from it will kill you.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.11.05, 21:31:14
I can't find what shape will be generated,...
Sine burst.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.11.05, 22:29:13
The industrial microwave ovens use 915MHz magnetrons.
Yeah, I've made reference to domestic appliances ... i like off the shelf idea the most.
Also, I am well aware of the health hazard, that's why I asked around if it may be a good idea. And i pretty much dislike idea to use microwave antenna ... I could use that in other setups for aerial collection and can be bought from electronic components shops not so expensive. But it is too easy of someone want to mess with your device.