Hi all!
Whatever it is, we will continue.
I need to remind myself and everyone..
Time frame is about 5 years.
While searching in patent databases, I came across several interesting patents on which promising experiments (at that time :-\) were carried out.
Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water - production of hydrogen without electrolysis.
Process for producing hydrogen:https://patents.google.com/patent/SU807584A1/en?oq=SU807584A1
Amount of Calcium Oxide Powder: 200 grams
The amount of water vapor present in the reactor: 50 grams
Pressure in the reactor: 0,87 atmospheres
(But about the pressure in this patent, it is not entirely clear. If you study other patents of this author, there are indications that in the process of preparing "calcium hydroxide" he lowered the pressure to 0.01 atmospheres)
Method for hydrogen production:https://patents.google.com/patent/GEP20074038B/en?oq=GEP20074038B
Abstract:
A method comprises heating water vapor together with the catalyst at pressure 8,0-10,0 atm. The received mix is cooled during (3-5)х10-3sec. up to temperature 70,0-80,00С and simultaneously with it pressure is lower up to 0,5-0,7atm. Then by means of addition water vapor hydrogen is isolated and process is repeated.
Amount of Calcium Oxide Powder: 200 grams
Pressure inside the reactor: 0,5 - 10 atmospheres
Temperature 70 - 400 Celsius
Water 100 ml
Amount of hydrogen: 0.66 - 0.72 % from the water, or 0.66 - 0.72 grams hydrogen, 7788 cubic centimeters of gas, 84 kilojoules if burned.
Thermolysis of water in contact with zeolite masses:https://patents.google.com/patent/US3963830A/en?oq=US3963830
Catalytical process for obtaining hydrogen from water:https://patents.google.com/patent/RO95468B1/en?oq=RO95468B1
About zeolite:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2DSI-v9k8c
Quantum field as a hypothetical energy source for reversible chemistry:https://digital.sandiego.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=phys-faculty
Quote..when a real molecule is placed between such plates, its energy levels behave in strange ways. And this latest paper demonstrates that with a photochemical rearrangement – the reaction rates change completely depending on whether or not the starting material is confined in the right sort of space, and they change exactly as the cavity is tuned more closely to the absorption taking place. In effect, the molecule is now part of a completely new system (molecule-plus-cavity), and this new system has different energy levels – and can do different chemistry.
The photochemistry shown is not exciting per se, but the fact that it can be altered just by putting the molecule in a very tiny box is exciting indeed:...
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2012/09/14/chemistry_in_the_quantum_vacuum_no_really
Possible Role of Oxides in the Fleischmann-Pons Effect:Jean-Paul Biberian, Iraj Parchamazad and Melvin H. Miles
Aix-Marseille University, France, University of LaVerne, LaVerne, CA, U.S.A.,
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.380.2981
Method for producing oxygen and hydrogen from waterhttps://patents.google.com/patent/US4278650A
QuoteWater is fed into a high temperature pressurized vessel containing hydrated large-port mordenite having a high Si/Al ratio and containing a cation that is selected from a specified group of metals and that is in its highest oxidation state. The high temperature causes an endothermic redox reaction that produces oxygen gas and, as a solid reaction product, a large-port mordenite wherein the metal cation is in a lower oxidation state. The solid reaction product is passed through a heat exchanger, where it is cooled and then into a second pressurized reaction vessel at low temperature whereby there occurs an exothermic redox reaction that produces hydrogen gas and which oxidizes the cation back to its highest oxidation state. The large-port mordenite generated in the second reaction vessel is passed through the heat exchanger, where it is heated, and then back into the first reaction vessel for recycling. Pressurization is employed in the reaction vessels to prevent dehydration and this, together with the composition of the mordenite and the use of the heat exchanger, provides high thermal efficiency.
Dynamical Casimir effect in metamaterial converts vacuum fluctuations into real photons:https://phys.org/news/2013-03-nihilo-dynamical-casimir-effect-metamaterial.html
Zero-Point Energy extraction:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLEJTaY307E
Unlocking Zero-Point Energy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tGRhTXKh8A
Zero-Point Energy Demystified:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh898Yr5YZ8
Zero Point Energy | Dr. Thorsten Ludwig:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCvbqMGPpa8
Not only water, but carbon dioxide:https://patents.google.com/patent/SU1011511A1/en
Method of catalytic decomposition of water:https://patents.google.com/patent/US7357912B2/en
QuotePreferable solid acid catalysts and the solid base catalysts are particles having 1 to 50 μm. The main component of the solid acid catalysts is silicon acids, and the main component of the solid base catalysts is at least one of alkali metal compounds and alkaline earth metal compounds. Preferable silicon oxides are alumino-silicates. The solid base catalyst contains at least one oxide of K, Mg, and Ca. The temperature of water is 130° C. or higher.
alumino-silicates - same as zeolite
Thermolysis of water in contact with zeolite masses:https://patents.google.com/patent/US3963830A/en
Near the RO95468B1 patent.
Method for producing oxygen and hydrogen from waterhttps://patents.google.com/patent/US4278650A/en
dynamic version
Catalyst for production of hydrogen or oxygen:https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH10263397A/en
Production of gaseous hydrogen by direct thermal decomposition of water and device thereof:https://patents.google.com/patent/JPH11171501A/en
Catalyst for producing hydrogen and oxygen and method for producing hydrogen and oxygen by thermal decomposition of waterhttps://patents.google.com/patent/JP3939389B2/en
Hydrogen gas generating method:https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1245531A1/en
to be continued..
Design of the first experiment that produced a small amount of hydrogen without electrolysis.
Used equipment and materials:
1. Oil vacuum pump, creates a vacuum of up to 0.5 mm. hg or less
2. Test tube made of quartz glass with heater and thermocouple for temperature measurement.
3. Hydrogen sensor for Arduino based on MQ-8
4. Natural zeolite - clinoptilolite with ions of other elements.
The sensor unambiguously registers hydrogen.
Features:
1. The temperature of the beginning of the process is 420 - 430 degrees Celsius. Below almost never happens. Better if the temperature reaches 500 - 520 C.
2. Vacuum. The pressure must be not higher than minus 99.5 kPa.With a pressure of vacuum is higher minus 99 kPa, nothing happens.
3. The quality of zeolite is not critical. It is possible to use cat litter, if it contains natural zeolite. Almost the same effect. Even ordinary lime can be used, but the effect will be much lower.
Design of the second experiment, which produced a small amount of hydrogen at normal pressure, without heating to high temperature and without a special vacuum pump.
Added alternating high-voltage current to obtain a barrier discharge. Such as in ozonizers or in plasma balls.
When test run without zeolite - no or very little amount of hydrogen.
Season three, changes relative to season two:
1. The vacuum pump from medical syringes was replaced with one hydraulic cylinder. The hydraulic cylinder has 2 chambers. When the piston moves, a rarefaction of air is created in one chamber, and air is compressed in the other. If you combine these chambers with valves, you get a two stage vacuum pump. The first valve first stage was installed with electrical switching, as mechanical "aquarium" valves do not work at low pressure. At low air pressure, there is not enough force to press the spring in the valve.
With some physical effort, it is possible to set the vacuum gauge needle at -100 kPa with the help of such a pump.
2. I do not use water heating. The room is +22 Celsius, water at reduced pressure boils without heating.
3. Heating the tube is also not needed. The tube is heated by itself from the barrier discharge.
4. The central conductor in the tube was placed in a thin glass pipe.
5. Added an air inlet pipe to a jar of water. Through a valve that can finely regulate the air flow, I supply a little air in the water to ensure air circulation with steam. If there is only steam, there is very small amount of gas at the outlet, the pressure does not increase.
Results:
It is possible to achieve a concentration corresponding to 2.2 and even 2.3 Volts max at the output of the MQ-8. This voltage probably corresponds to a concentration of about 3000 - 3500 ppm.
But considerable physical effort is required.
In general, of course, the system is far from optimal.
It is necessary to do something so that the steam cyclically enters the zeolite in a significant amount, and then the remaining steam and reaction products are cyclically pumped out.
So far I somehow do not understand how to implement this.
The main difficulty is that relatively low pressure is required to produce hydrogen. Most simple pumps are not suitable for such pressure. Of course, you can use an two stage rotary vane vacuum pump, but this is inefficient and the output will contain oil.
Quote from: sergh on 2024.04.08, 13:51:48
The main difficulty is that relatively low pressure is required to produce hydrogen. Most simple pumps are not suitable for such pressure. Of course, you can use an two stage rotary vane vacuum pump, but this is inefficient and the output will contain oil.
Let's use 10m. vertical tube which is fill of your water. In the top of closed tube will be your pressure. ;)
Hm..
Anyone who is interested should check the water from a well or tap for the presence of hydrogen. Simply pour fresh tap water into a jar, place the hydrogen sensor above the water, and close the jar with a lid. Probably in mountainous areas dissolved hydrogen can be released from water. Well water is usually very dirty. Clay, fine sand, and probably small zeolites may also be present in such water.
The problem is the (small) amount of hydrogen and the possibility of production "on demand".
"Elucidating the Roles of Electric Fields in Catalysis: A Perspective"
- near to this topic. High voltage Field-Assisted Catalysis, quantum effects:
https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1772334
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1772334
Big text, about practical results - from p.39
Make a centrifugal water pump impeller from zeolite. There will be areas of both high and low pressure there.
Insulate the impeller and apply high voltage to it. We will obtain in the output water for our needs and a little hydrogen. :)
Remember, I wrote that this does not work with liquid water. My attempts to obtain any detectable amount of hydrogen from vibrations in liquid water were unsuccessful. Do not understand why. Some statistical or fundamental limitations.
2 factors are needed:
1. Cyclically variable low pressure. Very low, almost a vacuum.
2. High temperature over 400 degrees Celsius. It is better if it is heated to 500 Celsius. Preferably cycled with low temperature.
High temperature can be replaced by a volumetric electrical discharge such as a barrier discharge or glow discharge. In a vacuum it works like a plasma ball.
With liquid water...? Of course it would be interesting and it would be a breakthrough.
But how? It is impossible to heat liquid water to 500 Celsius in a vacuum.
We need some difficult solution. Not obvious.
Could it somehow create a barrier or glow discharge in water? But I don't know how this is possible, there is no information.
For my experiments I found interesting device, like this:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005219509060.html
The motor pulls the piston out. The piston then disengages from the gear and is quickly compressed by the spring. Like an automatic water gun or sprinkler. A small amount of water can be added to the pump exhaust trought the built-in peristaltic pump.
I plan to use it as a prototype for experiments. Although the device is quite weak.
Can anyone tell me where something similar is used, or in a more powerful implementation?
I have a lot of old inkjet printers. peristaltic pumps are installed at the bottom in all. But they are very weak as well.
There are different types of peristaltic pumps. But in the previous message, an ordinary cylinder with a high compression ratio, and an additional peristaltic pump plays an auxiliary role and is not needed for the experiment.
Zero Point Energy and How Could it Change the World
https://www.inverse.com/article/35077-wtf-is-zero-point-energy
Since the ZPE is the minimum energy level, and using energy means reducing that of the source, the idea of using the ZPE is even more extravagant than inventing a Maxwell demon.
When those like Neel V. Patel who talk about it can provide even the slightest experimental proof of concept, we may change our minds.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2024.04.12, 13:30:21
Since the ZPE is the minimum energy level, and using energy means reducing that of the source, the idea of using the ZPE is even more extravagant than inventing a Maxwell demon.
I would agree with you if we lived at that zero point temperature of 0K. But we don't, so we have something like 290C degrees of temperature to play with before we reach that point. That is a lot of local heat energy well above ZPE as a source.
Smudge
Quote from: F6FLT on 2024.04.12, 13:30:21
When those like Neel V. Patel who talk about it can provide even the slightest experimental proof of concept, we may change our minds.
Proof:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode
You can even buy this device and check:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tunnel+diode
ZPE can probably be thought of as a low potential energy, but with large energy flux.
If this energy came from some geometric point source, it would certainly be small. But what if energy is released from the entire volume of space? How many tunnel diodes can be produced per square millimeter? 10 - 1000 - million? How many tunnel diodes can be produced per cubic millimeter using the same technologies as flash drives are now produced? And why produce something like that at all, if there are ordinary molecules that can, under certain conditions, be changed due to the ZPE?
You cannot get energy directly from a tunnel diode, since in this diode this ZPE only adds conductivity. But what will happen to the molecule into which conductivity from this energy is added? Under normal conditions nothing will happen. We exist with these and do not observe anything like this. But under certain conditions it is still possible to use this energy.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232703935_Autocatalytic_and_Cooperatively_Stabilized_Dissociation_of_Water_on_a_Stepped_Platinum_Surface
If the optimal catalyst and conditions are chosen, it is probably possible to turn redox reactions in the direction of lower entropy.
@sergh
Proof of what?!
Questions of potential or conductivity or non-continuous energy extraction have no relevance to what I said. Whether it's a question of a tunnel diode, an ordinary diode, a gravitational or electrical potential, thermal agitation or any other kind of agitation cannot give rise to rectification. According to the current theories the energy balance will always be zero
over a cycle.
Quote
If the optimal catalyst and conditions are chosen, it is probably possible to turn redox reactions in the direction of lower entropy.
A gratuitous assertion. So I'm still waiting for this
experimental proof-of-concept of permanent energy extraction from the ZPE or a single thermal bath, which would be in opposition to the known laws of nature, which impose symmetry and therefore the impossibility of maintaining a permanent imbalance.
I'm not saying that the idea shouldn't be explored, but that for the moment there are no experiments to back it up, only interpretations of experiments that are too partial to be conclusive.
Where does the potential difference come from in an unconnected electrolytic capacitor ?
Translate it, please by translator. It is interesting.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2024.04.15, 13:11:42
@sergh
Proof of what?!
If it were exactly what you want, then there would be no reason for us to gather here. It would be selected from trade catalogs according to the necessary parameters and sold in stores.
We don't yet know how space and time work. And these, "virtual particles," vacuum energy are part of the structure of the world.
Here is a more academic example that there is something in a vacuum:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228392-700-light-pulled-out-of-empty-space/
QuoteZero-point radiation continually imparts random impulses on an electron, so that it never comes to a complete stop. Zero-point radiation gives the oscillator an average energy equal to the frequency of oscillation multiplied by one-half of Planck's constant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
Of course it's not easy
How do you imagine a rectifier when the frequency of the oscillations is close to the limit for our space?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Planck_frequency
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/43063/what-is-the-highest-possible-frequency-for-an-em-wave
where does appear voltage in a unconnected electrolytic capacitor ?
"Enhancement of ionic conductivity of aqueous solution by silanol groups over zeolite surface"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1387181120307435
Quote from: sergh on 2024.04.15, 21:30:34
If it were exactly what you want, then there would be no reason for us to gather here. It would be selected from trade catalogs according to the necessary parameters and sold in stores.
Proof is exactly what I want, and I don't think I'm the only one. Looking for that proof without having it yet is a "reason for us to gather here", as you put it.
But you're the one who told us about "proof", a word that has a precise meaning, especially in science.
So if you're going to talk about proof, tell us at least one proof of what, that was only my question. What would be proven?
Quote
Here is a more academic example that there is something in a vacuum...
That the quantum vacuum is not empty is a truism. Everyone in science agrees on that. The question is not so much the nature of the quantum vacuum as the possibility of extracting energy from it. We haven't the slightest proof or thought experiment that this would be possible.
Quote from: sergh on 2024.04.29, 13:33:17
"Enhancement of ionic conductivity of aqueous solution by silanol groups over zeolite surface"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1387181120307435
This is much more interesting, thanks for posting it. I don't think it's related to ZPE, but in any case manipulating ionic conductivity is an interesting avenue to explore. In the light of this paper, I'm going to take another look at the Vasilescu-Karpen perpetual electric battery, on which I experimented a few years ago but whose effects were too weak to be significant. Perhaps they can now be increased.
Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024.04.22, 10:51:58
where does appear voltage in a unconnected electrolytic capacitor ?
https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/en/faq/detail.php?id=alRecoveryVolt
Quote from: F6FLT on 2024.04.29, 15:26:39
This is much more interesting, thanks for posting it. I don't think it's related to ZPE, but in any case manipulating ionic conductivity is an interesting avenue to explore. In the light of this paper, I'm going to take another look at the Vasilescu-Karpen perpetual electric battery, on which I experimented a few years ago but whose effects were too weak to be significant. Perhaps they can now be increased.
Regarding the article about increasing the conductivity of water with zeolite. I have long noticed that the conductivity of even highly purified water increases with the addition of zeolite. I believed that this was due to the presence of foreign impurities in commercial zeolites.
But I would not agree with the authors of the article. As I understand it, they consider the reason to be an increase in conductivity due to the presence of a silicon hydroxyl group at the surface of the zeolite. But in this case, ordinary sand or glass in water will also increase conductivity.
The complex structure of the dielectric surface usually improves the insulating properties.
Probably the reason is the nanostructure, tunnel or other quantum effects. The same ZeroPoint energy, weak and almost elusive.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2024.04.29, 15:40:06
https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/en/faq/detail.php?id=alRecoveryVolt
Didn't know. thanks.
But if my electrolytic capacitor has standing without power supply during three years ?
Besides that,voltage in the capacitor' outputs after stand for an year by unconnected is is opposite, on the positive terminal there is a minus, and on the negative terminal there is a plus.
Japanese doesn't know it. ;)
About increasing adsorption and desorption in zeolites without high temperatures and very low pressures.
1. increase adsorption by applying an electric field:
Influence of electric field on sorption ability of natural zeolite.
Sorption properties of zeolite at various values of intensity of electric field are studied. It is shown that influence of constant electric field on natural zeolite essentially raises it sorption ability and exchange capacity in relation to iron and manganese ions. Increase of activity of a sorbent remains after electric field removal.
2. increasing desorption by adding ferric iron oxide to the zeolite and heating in a microwave field
https://patents.google.com/patent/UA83469U/en?oq=UA83469U
1. Preparation of black iron oxide from a liquid solution "on demand" and "from scratch":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPzY2HL9_VE
iron sulfate (iron vitriol from gardener's shop) + iron chloride (radio parts store) + alkali (household store)
2. Magnetic Graphene | Making Magnetic Graphene Oxide - Fe3O4 magnetic nano particle composite system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOu0yC3WEMQ
3. Russian secret methods for producing magnetic fluid from simple components:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhZxJzW5jrg
https://youtu.be/yr3iXa3ciSU?t=522
Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024.04.30, 16:41:07
Didn't know. thanks.
But if my electrolytic capacitor has standing without power supply during three years ?
I think the reason is as follows: a chemical capacitor must be polarized. If it isn't, it remains what it is: 2 electrodes in an electrolyte, so a potential battery with redox reactions.
Quote from: sergh on 2024.05.03, 08:18:38
Russian secret methods for producing magnetic fluid from simple components:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhZxJzW5jrg
https://youtu.be/yr3iXa3ciSU?t=522
What is the magnetic permeability of magnetic fluids?
What if we made a transformer core from magnetic fluid?
Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024.05.04, 09:54:10
What is the magnetic permeability of magnetic fluids?
What if we made a transformer core from magnetic fluid?
I assume that the magnetic properties of the magnetic fluid are bad. The magnetic fluid is needed not for transformers core, but for the integration of magnetic properties into cavity structures.
About the interface between on-demand hydrogen and an electrical current source.
Interesting patents, on a different topic, but may be useful.
JP2006185638A Battery (https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2006185638A/en?oq=JP2006185638A)
QuoteReference Example 1:
Preparation of H-type zeolite
Clinoptiolite [Na 6 (Al 6 Si 10 O 72 ) · 24H 2 O] having a specific surface area of 18.0 m 2 / g was used as a raw material zeolite. This was immersed in a 5% saline solution for 60 minutes and then immersed in a 10% aqueous solution of citric acid for 60 minutes. The product was washed with water and dried to obtain H-type zeolite.
Reference Example 2:
Production of Electrolytic Solution
The liquid of the present invention was produced using the apparatus shown in FIG.
1100 g of calcium hydroxide was charged into the container 10, and 10 liters of water and 2500 g of phosphoric acid were charged into the container 20. Both were mixed and supplied to the container 30. The contents in the container 30 were stirred at room temperature for 0.5 hours to be reacted. Thereafter, the contents of the container 30 were transferred to the container 40. The contents of the container 40 were supplied to the electrolysis unit 50 charged with 10 kg of H-type zeolite, and the effluent from the container 50 was returned to the container 40 and circulated. The voltage in the electrolysis unit was 18V and the current was 10A. The circulation was terminated when the current reached 20A. The product was filtered to obtain an electrolytic solution.
Example 3
The motor was run again for 80 minutes and charged for 15 minutes. Furthermore, when the motor was operated for 3 hours, the voltage dropped to 1.69V. When the load was stopped and the change in voltage was measured, the following results were obtained.
Time (minutes) 2 10 16
Voltage 1.7 1.73 1.75
It was confirmed that the voltage recovered by leaving the battery unattended.
JP2008270001A Composition having electromotive force and power source unit such as power source cell (https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2008270001A/en?oq=JP2008270001A)
QuoteWhen the above cells were regarded as one cell and five cells were connected in series, a power supply unit showing a current of 5 to 6 V and 100 mA was obtained.
When this power supply unit was connected to a white LED of 30 mA, 4.5 V, the lighting time lasted for about 200 hours.
After the power was consumed and the lighting was stopped, the water absorbent sheet was absorbed with water of about 20%. The light was then turned on again and the lighting time lasted for about 100 hours.
Re-lighting with hydration was realized repeatedly.
Composition having electromotive force and power source unit such as power source cell or the like and manufacturing method of the same
...
In the power cell of the present invention, a sheet of paper or cloth having ion exchange ability is used between the anode member and the cathode member, and the water absorbing member is placed in a desired position in the cell between the anode member and the cathode member. Since the electric power generated by the chemical reaction is consumed and the necessary electric energy is insufficient, a small amount of water is supplied to the water absorbing member between the anode member and the cathode member. By humidifying the moisture to about 20%, the absorbed moisture is electrolyzed into hydrogen ions and hydroxide ions by energization of the anode member and the cathode member, and the hydroxide ions gather at the anode member to generate a new electromotive force. Therefore, the power source cell is self-charged without requiring an external current, and the electromotive force is self-regenerated only by supplying a small amount of water.
Quote from: sergh on 2024.05.23, 10:14:48
Therefore, the power source cell is self-charged without requiring an external current, and the electromotive force is self-regenerated only by supplying a small amount of water.
Hello!
Searches about high efficiency Stirling engine and anaerobic engines.
Found something interesting.
Thermoacoustics.
But I'm interested in the source of the strong low-frequency acoustic vibrations. In this video, look from 6:27:
https://youtu.be/m0dEwC0i1zo?t=391
I've been looking for something like this for a long time. Air pump for pond aeration. I ordered a similar one, we'll see.
The next video by the same author shows an interesting method for generating electricity from the vibration of permanent magnets. The author did it quite well and effectively. Notice how weak the flame of the alcohol lamp is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2cTgt9WEBE
Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024.05.24, 13:16:23
Therefore, the power source cell is self-charged without requiring an external current, and the electromotive force is self-regenerated only by supplying a small amount of water.
(Surprised cat)
With Chet's help, we tried to find a Japanese inventor and invite him to the old Overunity forum.
But, as I understand, the inventor refused because he is busy with the business of producing emergency flashlights using this technology. :'(
Interesante Patent
GB1585527A PROCESS AND APPARATUS FOR GENERATING HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN FROM WATER
https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1585527A/en?oq=GB1585527A
Priorities US70274676A
Application GB2610177A
Publication GB1585527A
CENTURY MFG. Co., Nebraska:
Quote..a method of disassociating the hydrogen and the oxygen of steam in which the steam is applied to the surface of a catalyst of the type having a differing attraction for hydrogen and oxygen atoms, an electric or magnetic field is applied to the steam and to the catalyst or a magnetic field is provided by use of a magnetic catalyst, and the hydrogen and the oxygen is removed from the surface of the catalyst.
...
EXAMPLE III
Steam under a pressure of 50 psi and temperature of 250"F was forced through 12 zirconium plated stainless steel screens all having a pulsating potential difference between alternate screens of 110 volt. The screens were 1/4 inch apart and were in a phenoilc tube having an inner diameter of 1/4 inch. At 50 psi a flame was obtained at the outlet of about 20 inches in length.
EXAMPLE IV
Steam under a pressure of 50 psi and the temperature of 250"F was forced through 12 zirconium plated stainless steel screens all having a potential difference between alternate screens of 6 volts DC. The screens are 1/4 inch apart and were in a phenolic tube having an inner diameter of 1/4 inch. At 50 psi a flame was obtained at the outlet of about 20 inches in length.
...
EXAMPLE VII
Steam from a pressure vessel was heated in a coil and passed through a mixture of magnetized magnetite, CeO, Eu2O3 and
GdO. The vapor output was ignited and burned for 10 minutes with a blue flame.
To view the patent correctly, please download the original PDF file.
QuoteAccording to one aspect of the present invention there is provided a method of disassociating the hydrogen and the oxygen of steam in which the steam is applied to the surface of a catalyst of the type having a differing attraction for hydrogen and oxygen atoms, an electric or magnetic field is applied to the steam and to the catalyst or a magnetic field is provided by use of a magnetic catalyst, and the hydrogen and the oxygen is removed from the surface of the catalyst.
I would like to know ,what kind of catalysator is,a catalyst that breaks the very strong bonds between hydrogen and oxygen.
Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2024.05.28, 15:27:43
I would like to know ,what kind of catalysator is,a catalyst that breaks the very strong bonds between hydrogen and oxygen.
Chief
Me too ...
Side note:
We have now Beryllium water dissasociation claim " Mr. Howard guy"
Also Sam Leach, lithium Nitrate 20ppm in water at 500 psi ( sold to budget car rental and shelved .
Edit on Sam Leach claim We have open source builder who has this replication on his "to do list"
Also others trying to sort "Mr.Howard's " Beryllium claim ( how to test)
I have a question for Sergh ( if appropriate, if not no worries)
Over at Kapanadze thread you mentioned some coating ( on walls ..?
Can you explain more about this "suggestion "?
Respectfully
Chet K
PS
Will remove above off topic .. if too off topic..
Quote from: sergh on 2024.05.27, 08:19:40
With Chet's help, we tried to find a Japanese inventor and invite him to the old Overunity forum.
But, as I understand, the inventor refused because he is busy with the business of producing emergency flashlights using this technology. :'(
Another example of Kapanadze's law
Quote from: Chet K on 2024.05.28, 16:06:08
I have a question for Sergh ( if appropriate, if not no worries)
Over at Kapanadze thread you mentioned some coating ( on walls ..?
Can you explain more about this "suggestion "?
Hello, Chet!
I meant white transparent opalescent stains on the glass of the aquarium.
Something like this can be obtained if you wash the window glass after painting the ceiling with chalk white or other renovation of the room.
These white stains are also present in other videos, but are only visible in scratches on the glass. Probably the glass was wiped more thoroughly or the video has less details than the photo.
Source of this images:
https://001-lab.at.ua/forum/2-11-265-16-1344536507
Quote from: Aking.21 on 2024.05.28, 17:45:18
Another example of Kapanadze's law
Try to change this world for the better!
========================
Economical generator Kapanadze.., if we knew what it is, but we don't know what it is. It may be useless for Kapanadze to publicate the principle, since replication is impossible for DIY.
In the video "Green Box" we see components with a total cost of $10. Kapanadze then announced the cost of the generator in the future, with mass production, at $400. This means that at that time it was much more expensive. And if some unusual components are used that are not publicly available?
Tariel Kapanadze's patent number 2007_00996 from the Turkish patent database (https://www.turkpatent.gov.tr/en/research?form=patent):
Quote2- istem l'e göre bir bağımsız eneıji cihazı olup, özelliği; başlangıç eneıji kaynağından (15)
elektriği alarak, platine (3) aktaran kondansatörü (2) içermesidir.
3- İstem l'e göre bir bağımsız enerji cihazı olup, özelliği; yüksek frekans jeneratörünün (4)
ihtiyaç duyduğu frekansı aktaran platin (3) içermesidir.
Quote..platin (3) yüksek frekans jeneratörüne (4) elektrik vermesini sağlar.
Translated to English:
Quote2-It is an independent energy device according to claim 1, and its feature is; from the starting energy source (15)
It contains the capacitor (2) that receives electricity and transfers it to the platinum (3).
3-It is an independent energy device according to claim 1, and its feature is; of the high frequency generator (4)
It contains platinum (3) that transmits the frequency it needs.
Quote..The platinum (3) provides electricity to the high frequency generator (4).
in another Patent Kapanadze this device, similar by place to device (3) in turkei patent, named as kapacitor or as "point"
What is the "platinum"? Catalyst? How much is needed in a Kapanadze 5 kilowatt generator?
Since we're talking about white residue and potential substances that might have helped Kapanadze achieve what he did... has anyone considered what effect Potassium alum (KAl(SO4)2·12H2O) might have when exposed to a HV field?
I recall something that Tito said in the Energy Amplification thread over at overunity.com:
Quoteand don't forget to add some KAL(SO4)2.12H2O at the HV portion. 8) :)
Might be nothing, might be something....
Hi Sergh,
Here is a Turkish - English online dictionary for the Turkish word platin and it includes several additional technical meanings of the word: https://tureng.com/en/turkish-english/platin (https://tureng.com/en/turkish-english/platin)
Perhaps, just perhaps there is an expression better fitting into the English text. (I do not speak Turkish.)
For instance, platin may mean technically contact breaking point. C.C
Gyula
Yes, that's possible. There is one person who can explain this. Metin Türk, native Turkish speaker. Who can contact him?
https://www.turkpatent.gov.tr/en/research?form=patent
Metin Turk is the owner of the company TMZ Turkey, who helped file the patents and organized this presentation in 2007.
After that, Kapanadze had a falling out with him and the collaboration ended.
Probably Metin TÜRK could tell a lot of new things about the Kapanadze generator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92I5Xpmq_NQ
If we use acoustic stirling without moving parts for getting vibration of pressure upper your ceolite?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2cTgt9WEBE&pp=ygUb0LHQtdC70LXRhtC60LjQuSDQuNCz0L7RgNGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2cTgt9WEBE&pp=ygUb0LHQtdC70LXRhtC60LjQuSDQuNCz0L7RgNGM)
Based on the results of some experiments, I assume that the main role in obtaining hydrogen from zeolite at low pressure and high temperature is played by the presence of calcium hydroxide integrated into the crystal lattice of zeolite 5A, also known as Ca-A zeolite, is a type of molecular sieve with a pore size of 5 Angstroms.
An experiment with Lithium-exchanged zeolites has preliminarily shown the absence of significant hydrogen release.
This coincides with information from patents, where calcium hydroxide is supposed to be used. Hydrogen release occurs with lime, but several times less than with calcium zeolite.
I conducted an experiment by cycling the pressure in a hot reactor. The pressure varied from -98 kPa to 1.2 MPa (about 12 bar). I noticed an improvement in hydrogen release of about 50 percent.
Current status: low efficiency, not covering energy costs.
I will publish here a couple of dialogues with ChatGPT, which in principle confirm this direction of research and experiments:
ChatGPT_Calcium_Water_Dissociation.pdf - This file is about conventional hydrogen production using lime hydroxide, and does not concern on free energy.
ChatGPT_Quantum_Water_Dissociation1.pdf - This file is about the possibility of obtaining free energy from quantum effects, producing energy from a vacuum.
Quote from: sergh on 2025.07.15, 09:35:40
ChatGPT_Quantum_Water_Dissociation1.pdf - This file is about the possibility of obtaining free energy from quantum effects, producing energy from a vacuum.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2025.07.01, 13:49:12
You're right on both counts. In QM, ZPE is accepted. The problem is getting energy out of it, since it is supposed to be the minimum level of this ambient energy. So, a priori, you can't lower the ZPE level to extract the difference.
Do you think that the energy of reproducing space in time is small? Probably the visualization of this energy in our reality is small, we see only a small part, the tip of the iceberg.
And even this small level of ambient energy, what kind of energy flux does it have? Can it be spent or is it reproduced instantly? Is it possible to consume this small energy with a very high frequency? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_flux
Let's say you have a magic box, and every time you open it you find 1 cent in it. Think about it, what is the use of this? And if you open such a box 100 million times a second?
But what about the small level of this energy? This level can be increased due to resonance in nanocavities. Casimir effect in a dielectric cavity of subatomic size.
All that remains is to drag the burnt fuel into these cavities, set the appropriate mode, and pull out the separated components from them.
@sergh
You presented energy as an absolute reality, which is completely inaccurate. Energy depends on the frame of reference, so it can be neither the iceberg nor the tip of the iceberg. If you're traveling at 1000 km/h in a spaceship, its kinetic energy relative to you is zero, while it's enormous for an observer on Earth.
Energy is simply the useful work that can be recovered from a process that reduces the state of a system when another benefits from it and the energy of the whole remains constant. And of course, we want to be on the side of the system that benefits.
Obviously, the idea of a quantum nanoprocess providing a tiny amount of energy that could be repeated in a very rapid cycle and/or integrated on a large scale to provide useful energy is a good one. However, we still need to be sure that we actually gain energy from a single nanoprocess over a single cycle, and that the system from which this energy is drawn is refilled from a source that is virtually inexhaustible on a human scale. The ZPE seems to address the second point. But I have serious doubts that the Casimr effect can provide work over a cycle, since it takes as much energy to push the plates apart as the effect provides when they approach each other.
Finally, over a fixed period of time, a resonance does not increase the total energy level involved; it is not a multiplication, but an accumulation. At each cycle a small amount of energy is added to the system, but the total energy gained will never be greater than the sum of the energy of a single cycle over the number of cycles performed. Unlike increasing the cycle rate or the number of processes, a resonance does not increase energy but stores it. Its interest is simply practical, we can thus have accumulated energy to release it in a shorter time and obtain much more power than that at the origin of the resonance, but for a much shorter time, and no more energy.
Well this is very interesting concerning this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atGD9dIgYgg
Quote from: F6FLT on 2025.08.04, 16:48:35
Finally, over a fixed period of time, a resonance does not increase the total energy level involved; it is not a multiplication, but an accumulation. At each cycle a small amount of energy is added to the system, but the total energy gained will never be greater than the sum of the energy of a single cycle over the number of cycles performed. Unlike increasing the cycle rate or the number of processes, a resonance does not increase energy but stores it. Its interest is simply practical, we can thus have accumulated energy to release it in a shorter time and obtain much more power than that at the origin of the resonance, but for a much shorter time, and no more energy.
but this is another:
Imagine a rectangular metal room with no windows, suspended by a wire between two high-voltage power lines.
A thick wire is passed through the room in transit from the power line, from one wall to the other.
The room is made of metal, closed on all sides. This is our world.
You are inside a room with a low-voltage light bulb. You need to get light.
You know that a current of 100,000 amperes flows through the thick wire from the power plant to consumers.
But this high-quality thick wire has a resistance of 0.000001 ohms per meter.
No matter how you connect the light bulb to the wires, it will not glow, since the voltage between any accessible points on the wire is too low.
How to get light?
Let's say you have a coil and a capacitor that form a resonant circuit for the frequency of alternating current in the wire of this power line.
You connect in series the coil, the capacitor and a section of wire 1 meter long.
And then you connect a low-voltage light bulb in parallel with the coil or capacitor. Will it be possible to see light?
What is the limit to the energy you can get from a thick wire like this?
If you take a coil of very thick wire and a fat, large, low-loss capacitor, you can get a lot more until the power plant people notice a strange increase in losses in their power lines..
@Sergh
The device you are referring to is a magnetic coupling with a line carrying 100,000 amps, thanks to an RLC circuit. The lamp will light up, stealing energy from other users who together draw the 100,000 A.
In Free Energy, adapting a device to an energy source so that it works is a secondary issue. The main issue is finding the energy source. Once you have the energy source, such as the power line, everything else is easy; it's just engineering.
The fact that an energy source cannot always be exploited as simply as the power line in your example to light a lamp does not in any way prove that anything can be an energy source and that the only question is how to extract it.
So the essential question remains: to demonstrate that the ZPE or another medium can constitute an exploitable energy source. Is it like the water reserve of a dam, at a high altitude, capable of turning a turbine, or a water reserve at sea level?
When you observe the future passing from the present into the past, this is proof of the presence of zero point energy.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2025.08.05, 08:40:48
The device you are referring to is a magnetic coupling
It doesn't matter what type of coupling it is, magnetic, electrical, acoustic or any other.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2025.08.05, 08:40:48
So the essential question remains: to demonstrate that the ZPE or another medium can constitute an exploitable energy source.
- in process. It is visible, but so far it is not enough. A lot of work needs to be done.
@sergh
Your assertions are more a matter of opinion than knowledge. The very idea of time passing is suspect; it only appears on a macroscopic scale. There is no evidence of time passing in the quantum realm of ZPE. In quantum mechanics, time is symmetrical.
Furthermore, only conclusive experiments, which we do not have, can lead us to say 'it is visible'. Today, it is an unfounded assertion.
That said, you can hypothesise that it is a source of energy and seek to exploit it. The method may work if that is the case. In my opinion, this hypothesis is unlikely.
This is the case if we imagine time as an independent, separate phenomenon.
But what if we imagine time as a process of the formation of matter and space by a field of virtual particles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle) due to the energy of the so-called Big Bang? In the current period, here and now.
Quote from: F6FLT on 2025.08.05, 09:10:02
.. can lead us to say 'it is visible'.
In quantum matters, nothing was ever visible. :)
Within this topic, we can take a closer look at different types of catalysis. For example, the so-called "heterogeneous catalysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogeneous_catalysis)". Who can explain exactly why such a catalyst reduce the temperature required for a chemical reaction by many times? Is the classical definition of catalysis always correct?
http://dom-en.ru/procsveta1/ (http://dom-en.ru/procsveta1/)
Translate this to english,please.My old computer can't do it.That's worth it. It is interesting. :)
Quote from: chief kolbacicthttp://dom-en.ru/procsveta1/ (http://dom-en.ru/procsveta1/)
unable to access
Quote
OBTAINING OXYGEN, HYDROGEN, AND ELECTRICITY FROM ENVIRONMENTAL HEAT (Process 'SVETA')
Author: Alexander Anatolyevich Demchyshyn, Thermal Power Engineer, Ukraine, 2011
Introduction
Due to the depletion of fossil fuel reserves and the high cost of thermal and electrical energy derived from them, the search for and use of new renewable and low-cost energy sources is highly relevant.
This article describes the possibility of creating a cycle for the production of oxygen, hydrogen, thermal, and electrical energy using a renewable energy source — environmental heat.
The basis of the proposed cycle is the "SVETA" process, an alternative to the Mark cycle by Westinghouse [1].
The "SVETA" process involves the reduction of sulfuric acid into sulfur and oxygen using environmental heat. The recovered sulfur is then used to produce sulfuric acid, yielding hydrogen and generating thermal and electrical energy. The resulting sulfuric acid is again reduced via the "SVETA" process to sulfur and oxygen, and so on...
Thus, environmental heat is the only energy source used in this cycle.
1. Description of the Setup
The process of reducing sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) to sulfur (S), oxygen (O₂), and water (H₂O) using environmental heat was implemented by the author in October 2010 using a homemade setup (Figure 1).
This setup is an electrochemical cell with two chambers containing copper wire electrodes (E1 and E2), separated by a homemade ion-exchange membrane (IEM) made from KU-2-8 cation-exchange resin powder.
One chamber contains an acidic solution (sulfuric acid + water).
The other contains an alkaline solution (baking soda + water).
Electrodes generate ~100 mV potential difference.
Cell resistance: ~100 Ohms.
2. Description of the Experiment
The goal was to produce:
Hydrogen in the alkaline chamber, and
Oxygen in the acidic chamber.
Gas outlets were provided for each chamber. However, the result was unexpected.
Instead of hydrogen, yellow crystalline sulfur began forming in the alkaline chamber. No gas bubbles or hydrogen emission was observed. In the acidic chamber, oxygen bubbles formed on the electrode.
The process led to:
Cooling of both solutions below ambient temperature.
A rise in the liquid level in the alkaline chamber and a drop in the acidic one.
Electrodes remained unchanged after the experiment.
3. Analysis of the Results
Expected hydrogen production did not occur.
Instead:
Hydrogen ions moved through the membrane into the alkaline chamber and reduced the sulfonic groups of the cation-exchange membrane to elemental sulfur and water:
-SO₃⁻ + 6H⁺ + 5ē → S↓ + 3H₂O (1)
Sulfuric acid in the acidic chamber replenished the reduced sulfonic groups.
Electrons flowed from E1 to E2 due to:
4OH⁻ - 4ē → 2H₂O + O₂↑ (2)
Water and sulfur accumulation caused the rise in the alkaline chamber.
Loss of H⁺ ions and oxygen production lowered the level in the acidic chamber.
4. Conclusions
Energy and Environmental Value:
Sulfuric acid was reduced to sulfur, oxygen, and water without energy or material input — powered solely by environmental heat.
Oxygen Production:
Occurs via reduction of sulfuric acid, with gas collected from the acidic chamber.
Hydrogen Production:
Possible through reactions:
S + O₂ → SO₂ (3)
SO₂ + 2H₂O → H₂SO₄ + H₂ (4)
Reaction (4) is from the Mark 11 Westinghouse cycle and occurs at ~0.17V, vs. 1.23V needed for traditional water electrolysis.
Potential to combine reactions (3) and (4) catalytically:
S + O₂ + 2H₂O → H₂SO₄ + H₂ (5)
Electricity Generation:
The restored sulfur, oxygen, and water can be used as recyclable fuel.
Sulfuric acid production from sulfur is exothermic, generating steam for turbines.
From 1 ton of sulfur → 6 tons of superheated steam → 1,500 kWh.
Using hydrogen in fuel cells offers higher efficiency and lower fuel costs.
Cost Advantage:
Fuel cost is 70–80% of traditional production.
This cycle reduces costs by the same percentage.
Conclusion
To explore production of other valuable materials and scale up to pilot industrial setups, extended lab experiments are needed using:
Various solutions,
Different types of ion-exchange and bipolar membranes.
Particularly promising is the reduction of CO₂ to carbon and hydrocarbons.
References
Shpilrain E.E., Introduction to Hydrogen Energy, Moscow, Energoatomizdat, 1984, p. 123.
Korovin N.V., Electrochemical Energy, Moscow, Energoatomizdat, 1991, p. 127.
Criticism:
The statement that sulfur was released in the alkaline part of the electrolyzer caused doubt. That is, sulfur somehow penetrated from the acid part of the electrolyzer through the cation membrane into the alkaline part.
Well, I don't know if that's possible.
Maybe it's not sulfur, but copper that is released, although the author claims that the copper electrodes have not changed.
There are subtitles.
https://youtu.be/PlW8DfLNGfE (https://youtu.be/PlW8DfLNGfE)
Quote from: sergh on 2025.08.05, 09:25:27
This is the case if we imagine time as an independent, separate phenomenon.
But what if we imagine time as a process of the formation of matter and space by a field of virtual particles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle) due to the energy of the so-called Big Bang? In the current period, here and now.
In quantum matters, nothing was ever visible. :)
...
The interference fringes are clearly visible. And when conditions are changed at a point along the path of a photon AFTER it has passed through, the interference fringes change or disappear. This is not a matter of imagination about what time might be, it is the result of experiments, notably John Archibald Wheeler's delayed choice experiment.
So clearly, in quantum mechanics, time does not flow as we intuitively understand it in everyday life.
And on a macroscopic scale, we have so much experimental evidence that it is indeed a fourth dimension of space-time that I cannot even see how any strategy could cast doubt on it.
So I am willing to make any hypothesis about time, but it must be compatible with everything we already know and observe.
Okay, "time" doesn't exist, there is a sequential reproduction of space in the 4th dimension, which people are used to calling "time". What's wrong?
Let's not talk about "existence" since we don't have access to what reality might be, only to what we see of it (which is not necessarily proof of the existence of anything).
Time as "sequential reproduction of space" was what we believed before the evidence of relativity, namely the evolution of the universe in relation to an external parameter evolving in a stable and linear fashion, time.
The transition to the fourth dimension is a complete paradigm shift. We can no longer say that space varies in relation to the fourth dimension: that is false.
This universal parameter, which was assumed to be external to the universe, is now an internal parameter that is no longer universal or independent. This is the key point. It depends on the other three dimensions and on every movement through one or the other, just as the dimensions of space depend on it.
We no longer have an evolution in relation to time, since time itself is part of the evolution. It must be seen as an emergence of the dynamics of the universe, and not as an absolute parameter in relation to which the universe would evolve.
I was prompted to think by the discovery of time crystals, which you have heard about.
Time crystals, as objects capable of functioning in time.
Let time be a term that everyone is accustomed to, although some understand this term differently.
so, rough, shallow sketches of the world:
How are dimensions formed in geometry? Let's say 2-dimensional is formed from the intersection of two one-dimensional. 3-dimensional is formed from the intersection of several two-dimensional.
So, 4-dimensional? The intersection of several three-dimensional spaces? What does this even mean? Of course, the real physics of the world may not necessarily coincide with geometry.
If scientists assume that before the Big Bang there was neither time nor space, then what could the "Big Bang" actually be? Maybe the beginning of the intersection of several 3D spaces with different positions in the 4th dimension? How much energy does one 3-D space have relative to another when they intersect? What is the phenomenon called "energy" in our space?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6wFZp-bo3A
What then is the speed of light, as the maximum possible speed of disturbance transmission in our space? The speed of intersection of 3-D spaces?
A solid body and the gravity associated with it? Local slowing down of intersection?
I am not sure that further discussions in this direction are appropriate in the topic, especially since this requires a serious scientific basis.
Quote from: Chet K on 2024.05.28, 16:06:08
Chief
Me too ...
Side note:
We have now Beryllium water dissasociation claim
Also Sam Leach, lithium Nitrate 20ppm in water at 500 psi ( sold to budget car rental and shelved .
Edit on Sam Leach claim
Above lithium nitrate claim was said to run an engine ( appeared in a national magazine showing it running engines
On water At test lab with no explanation how they did it
Sam leach shared the missing bit prior to his death....
Edit
Here they chase the "biology " behind the "energy" in our bodies
At 38:min ( approximately)
The mechanism or ingredients which weaken waters bonds ( certain types of salt)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UqrewYGJJ4E&t=6s&pp=2AEGkAIB
Nano bubbles ( are NOT micro bubbles)
And they seem much closer to figuring it all out ( the reactions that bring energy into a reality to drive our body,
An unknown at this point in time ( like what "IS" gravity or magnetism or etc etc
Not what it does
What "is" it ...??
Fascinating fellow and researcher
Snip
Barry Ninham
Description
Professor Ninham is the world's leading researcher on colloid and surface science, an interdisciplinary science combining physical, chemical and biological sciences.
He is renowned for his work in the self-assembly of biological molecules and the theory of molecular forces.
Professor Ninham and his colleagues designed world-leading technologies for desalination and for cleaning recycled water of bacteria, viruses, drugs, arsenic and nuclear waste. This technology is particularly relevant to third-world countries where access to clean water is challenging.
Respectfully submitted
Chet K