Motor-generators, ufopolitics, Lynx, lidmotor, Berdini etc

[PhysicsProf]

 
   Would like to start a new thread  for discussion of the small motor-generators now being developed by ufopolitics, Lynxsteam, lidmotor etc

On another thread, Hiwater noted:

I have been following some of UFO politics posts at The EF forum. Looks pretty impresive.So have been trying to draw on paper how to rewind
my gen armature with the 14 armature slots and 28 comm bars. I cant figure it out yet. Maybe you can.  Guess I just dont quite understand it yet.

   I would like to understand it, too!  Thread here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11885-my-asymmetric-electrodynamic-machines.html

Lidmotor's build:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z71KtKRKA0U&feature=em-uploademail
Please note any other particularly related threads or vids!

Meanwhile, Lynxsteam has posted a vid on a motor-generator that incorporates a Joule thief circuit -- which i think is clever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gWZchP8-Hk&feature=em-uploademail

Berdini (note: we're advised not to use his name exactly on this forum, IIRC) conference also produced some excitement, I understand -- some new life there also. 

Which approach is better?   any hope for ou by these approaches? 

[Chet K]

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4864-donald-smith-devices-too-good-true-229.html#post202999

This is also interesting??
At least the claims along with a circuit and build info [some]

Thx
Chet

[Slider2732]

Although I personally haven't had time yet to try this asymmetrical layout, I really do like the idea.
UFO doesn't really give the best of examples for his projects though - for example, the large motor that is powered 'by a little battery', has many problems. The lipo battery is a 3S 1350mAh, that's 11.1V. Such batteries have a very linear discharge and can supply up to 30A for 2 minutes, 15A for 6 or 7 minutes, (in the case of the Rhino 1350 and similar).
In short, that battery is hardly little, maybe in physical size, but not in output power. I would expect (from R/C aircraft projects of 5 years) that the battery would power that motor, shown with no load, for many minutes. In fact, the generator output that was shown, did drop as time went along, in keeping with the discharge rate of such a lipo.
His concept videos are excellent, opening the eyes of many to the possibilities of asymmetrical systems. Just wish his videos showed all of his excellent way of thinking.
An example 3S 1350mAh lipo : http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__7658__Rhino_1350mAh_3S1P_30C_Lipoly_Pack.html

It seems to be a method where torque is improved, but current rises to do so.
The generator output comes from the dual commutator. You can have 2 inputs on 2 connections, 2 outputs on the other 2.
Bare in mind, esteemed fellows such as Tesla have had Patents on very similar ideas and so it's likely to be able to offer unfathomable but real applications. 

In a reply from Lidmotor where I suggested an inverter or similar from his motor, he's wanting to try a Tesla tower exciter circuit. That could be very interesting indeed

Can that output run in to a cap and AV plug setup to feed back in to the motor ? dunno yet. Would be fun to find out !

[mbrownn]

I like some of what I have seen of UFO and he does great video work but I am not yet sure of his intentions. Some of the claims he makes are misleading and he can be quite antagonistic while other work he does is sound and of a high standard. a recent post I made was answered with something that had nothing to do with what I said, I don't believe he does not know what I am talking about so either he didn't read it or he is trying to mislead.

Lidmotor is well known for his excellent work. and I don't know of lynx.

[PhysicsProf]

On page 229 of the huge "Don Smith" thread at EF,  Janost posts what he claims is a "self-runner."  I think it is worth taking a look, doing replications and testing.  
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4864-donald-smith-devices-too-good-true-229.html

Posted by Janost (see circuit below).

It is a stepup-stepdown converter.

The first transformer generates about 800volt pulses into an Avramenko plug. It charges the 630nF cap using a single wire.

When the gas discharge tube breakdown voltage, 200volt, is reached the cap discharges into stepdown transformer primary and transforms the voltage down and the current up on the secondary.

The GDT rate is about 20Hz.

The secondary is rectified and charges the 3,6v Li-Ion cell that feeds the supply voltage for the HV-blocking oscillator.

It works without a grounding-rod but the battery eventually runs out.
When it is grounded the glow from the GDT is stronger and the secondary of the stepdown generates a higher voltage with more current.

The second AV-plug with the 5,6uF cap is a way to tap the circuit and use a load without disturbing the selffeeding loop.

And Janost further:

The caps in the AV-plugs won't charge with a lower voltage.

Yes, the 5K pot sets the pump rate through the load.
The SCR fires when the gate voltage exceed 3volt and discharges the cap through the load.
It's like a low voltage sparkgap.

The secondary delivers 13volt and 400mA shorted.
The blocking-oscillator draws about 70mA.

It is selfrunning but only if it's grounded and I can't explain why.

And he adds:

janost janost is offline
Member
        
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 44
The transformers are stock.
The stepup comes from a bugzapper and the stepdown is a 230v to 9v wallwart.

The GDT is just a flurocent-tube lighter with the supression cap cut out.
The exact breakdown voltage is 196v.

The GDT actually pulses the primary of the stepdown but on the secondary there is a ringdown happening with the transformers self-resonant frequency.
That is why I only half-rectified it instead of a bridge to keep the ringing.

I have burned out a couple of wallwart transformer running them with just a sparkgap before I figured out a GDT and the AV-plug performs excellent and the GDT fires before the primary winding breaks down.

The AV-plug does not put any strain on the stepup secondary as it charges passively.

I guess that the caps won't charge on a lower voltage because of leakage in the diodes.
We have 230v lines in my country and if connect the AV-plug to the livewire of a wallplug it only charges to about 6,5volts.

More from Janost:

My circuit proves that you dont need real HV like ignition-coils or MOTs for this to work.

My theory is that it is actually the sparkgap and the ground-rod that does the magic.

Perhaps also the resonant ringing in the stepdown transformer.

Clearly Janost has actually built and tested:

If I grabb the grounding end of the coil with my hand (no chocks felt) the output is stronger so yes, an antenna could work.

If i do that I guess it is pulling the electrons out of my body and the ground I'm standing on.

It is extremly important that the HV-coil is connected the correct way around so that the kickback pulse is positive in respect to the ground.

The other way around and the cap wont charge.

This is really interesting stuff.

Anyone want to try a build??  Comments?

[Slider2732]

Once had a thyristor running a pulse motor, there's a video of it somewhere. But, where that is nowadays i've no idea and I only ever had the one.
The build looks straight forward enough and I do have plenty of li-ion's from salvaged laptops.
Real Grounding is mega important. From the disconnected mains adapter work of last year and radiant ideas of this year, it's self known to be of importance. Berdini's motor circuits have actual Grounds, but most folks don't incorporate them.
Hmm...there may be SCR's on stuff I haven't looked at for a while, will have a dig around.

I doubt that personally I can do much this week though. There's a chap been in touch about buying 1 of my arcade games and may be interested in several more, so that's probably going to take up most time sorting them out to be in saleable conditions.

[Chet K]

Steve
This definately has some interesting anomoly going on if it "Self runs"?
How about a replication on the main OUR forum ?
I am on "Hold" for projects ATM ,but could squeeze in some time for this!

It would be a very good opportunity to see how the extra energy is getting in ,whether its thru some local "leaking" /recieving
or actually setting up the conditions required for alternative harvesting of energy?



Thx
Chet

[PhysicsProf]

  Per Chet's request, I posted a thread about the Janost device on the main OUR forum, to broaden the discussion there..  Comments are welcomed there if you wish; or here if you prefer.

[Slider2732]

In your benches thread Steve, there seems a lot of confusion about the pseudo spark gap. A few of Woopy's video with his Kacher device show one of those in operation. A small white device looking like a weird resistor, that flashes white.

All this about fluoro starters makes me think of regular small neon bulbs. If you take a fluoro starter apart, you'll see just a neon, though they may give off a purple light instead. If a neon needs 70V minimum to glow (and therefore conduct), then might a neon be suitable as a spark gap replacement in low power self runner experiments ?

Seems that a 1:50 toroid wind, with a 120/9V stepdown wall adapter may be a route.

Also, someone in the thread referred to Li-Ion batteries as little bombs or such. That's not the case, Lithium Polymer (Li-Po) batteries are the highly dodgy ones. Get a Li-Po wet and they can vent and explode into flames. Crush a Li-Po and gain a similar result. They are only protected by a thin aluminium covering, like kitchen foil and that's the main cause for concern.
Li-Ion's are far safer, not just the chemistry, but also being encased in a more traditional solid metal canister. By mistake one time, I inadvertently shorted one such cell and it got hot, but only the same as an Alkaline AA would. At no point did it blow up or eject flaming debris into space ! Some of my Li-Ion cells are from the late 90's and either will charge or won't..they can actually be brought back to full function with a Berdini wheel and will charge fine with a decent hobby grade NiMH charger too.
All Lithium based batteries could feasibly present a fire risk....but it's the Li-Po's with the history, not the Li-Ion's.
Where do we normally find Li-Ion ? Encased in thick plastic boxes inside laptops.
Where do we normally find Li-po ? In childrens toy radio controlled aircraft at Toys R Us and Walmart !  

Ideally, a 10F 5.5V supercap or similar would run such a circuit, which has also got the Earth ground connected.