Free Energy Garden Lights - help/advice requested

[Slider2732]

I recently submitted a project to Kickstarter.com, called Free Energy Garden Lights. While keeping to all the rules and including a video of how they work, the circuit and the lights in operation, the project was declined.
An appeal to the decision was made, requesting the reason for the refusal of the project, but the response was just as vague as the initial response.
For those not familiar with Kickstarter....what happens is that a person submits a prototype, with the idea of finding manufacturing interest, but primarily to reward 'Pledge' donations from the public with products. Say you have a 2013 Calendar and wish to gain money to take pictures and create a theme with costumes. People who pledge $1 might get a thank you, people who pledge anything above $15 might get the calendar itself. Pledge $50 and get 4 calendars etc. After a set time frame that the project is shown, say 2 weeks, if the project meets the target set by the poster, then the monies are collected, through Amazon.com and the project person is paid. If the amount is not reached, noone gets charged anything.

The idea, is to produce these lights cost effectively, to have anyone who wants some of them be able to get them and for them to continue to be refined and improved...such that, if no manufacturing deal is reached, I can produce a good quality, reliable free energy light for peoples use.
As I say, the project has been turned down...perhaps they just decided no light can work without power applied from a battery or solar, I still have no idea.

Here is what would have been the project video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXZhNEB3qpE

Attached are a couple of pics of the lights.


They work, they need to be improved, but are what they say they are.
Envisaged final pricing for commercial units would be $2.99 each, with deals for packs of 12's and 24's. It takes 2hrs to make and test each one at the moment and I have no way to meet a demand if there were one. This would be no money making exercise....but it would enable a usable source of free power into public knowledge. From interest would come someone with manufacturing ability and if not, at least an alternative energy product would be out there with some people.
Steve has kindly helped with this project and I have sent 2 units to him, for appraisal and own use.

The blocking oscillator is standard enough, same as a Joule Thief but with a 1M resistor and 0.1uF cap in parallel with it to the Base of a good hFE transistor with low turn on requirements(C1815 and similar). It's basically the same as Lidmotor's 'Penny' circuit or Xee2's 2uA oscillator, on a tiny scale. There is a 100uF cap on the front end, to allow the voltage to build sufficiently to switch on the transistor.
Developments and the circuits have been shown in recent YouTube videos (my channel is same name Slider2732).
The electrodes are copper and chain link fencing. Ever seen chain link fencing rust ? neither have I. The low circuit requirements benefit any galvanic reaction concerns
Several electrodes have been in our back garden for weeks now and still produce the same output as when they went in. No corrosion or other effects are to be seen. A long term similar setup, in plain water, has been running continuously since November of last year.

What to do ?

[PhysicsProf]

  This is exciting stuff, IMO -- great work, Mark.

Yes, Mark sent me two and they are COOL.  I haven't tested them for long time periods yet, but  Mark has:

Steve has kindly helped with this project and I have sent 2 units to him, for appraisal and own use.
[snip]
Several electrodes have been in our back garden for weeks now and still produce the same output as when they went in. No corrosion or other effects are to be seen. A long term similar setup, in plain water, has been running continuously since November of last year.

I think the Kickstart approach is a good one -- does anyone know if there is another choice, some other group that does this?  that's one approach, Mark -- try another "kick-starter" support approach.

But you might just change the project title -- "Free energy" may be the problem.  Those guys get a proposal, they probably due a quick google search for the title --

"Free Energy Garden Lights"

Well, garden lights exist, so that would not be a project; and "Free Energy" is likely to raise red flags (even if these red-flags don't really apply!)  These guys are looking for low-risk projects IMHO, and "Free energy" in the project title is going to cause problems - IMO.

So you might simply re-write things and try again, Mark -- some examples:

Long-lasting garden lights sans batteries (not solar-powered either!)
Lovely garden lights -- NO Batteries needed!  (I would emphasize that)
Fire-fly lights for home or garden; no batteries required
Nearly-forever lights: no batteries

Suggest you re-write and re=submit to Kickstarters or an equivalent outfit, Mark. 

Best wishes!!!

[Slider2732]

Thanks Steve, very much appreciated advice.

Originally they were PathLights, til the discovery of that as a trade name. Then several more names came and went, like Flickerlights which are in fact candles. Firefly are quite nice commercial lights that flash every now and again with a green color.
A strange experience was had though while Firefly Lights was the leading name - While up at Honor Heights park to shoot one part of the video, there were a huge number of fireflly's flying about. One of them went straight past the camera lens and flashed while recording, it looked fantastic, but without being able to use the name looked more like a distraction.

We went through the week long setting up of an Amazon business account, as required by Kickstarter, so at least that is in place.
I agree though, Free Energy has a red flag attached for many.
Without employment for myself or wife now, the forced situation is that of invention and building. The lights are something that any builder with electronics experience can create and I certainly don't mind that happening, but people may simply prefer to buy ready made units. For those persons, well here they are.
One other idea is a roll out horizontal version of spring loaded window blinds, on height adjustable stands. That comes from the successful covering of garden vegetables during this last 3 weeks of near 100F temperatures. I'm still harvesting lettuce and radish every couple of days and due to the prototype working well. The 'secret' there, is to use a light color of covering and keep the soil damp, oh and harvesting at about 11pm.

Thanks for the name suggestions.
Self Powered Garden Lights,
Ionic Lights
I also like Entropix, from entropy. After a search just now after typing it, it's a company in NY 
Or, maybe Red Flag Lights ha

[PhysicsProf]

Slider, I did a quick vid at about 6 am this morning -- happy 4th of July!  Freedom Energy!

Here's the vid:  http://youtu.be/NEL36efF0XY

I mentioned your vid on the garden lights; can remove the reference if you wish.

Thanks again,
Steve

[Slider2732]

Oh I enjoyed that, great test 
Perhaps it was surprising to see one of the first two ever built being used, but it runs, so why not !

The paper towel run should see it flash away til the paper is dry
Galvanized steel sheet will run for about 2 months continuously in tap water, before needing to be cleaned of contaminants. Chain link fencing is showing itself to be a stronger material (not that cleaning with paper towel every now and again is a chore). The output is less than galv steel, by about 0.1V, yet still capable of running the oscillators and makes ground insertion easier and neater. 
I would imagine that brand new fencing would be superior, yet, the 10+ years age of this fencing may hold reasoning for its oxidation stability.

[PhysicsProf]

  For some reason, the wet paper-towel idea did not work for very long (less than an hour), don't know why.

BUT placing in distilled water this morning -- it works just GREAT!  and should avoid contaminant build-up.

Galvanized steel sheet will run for about 2 months continuously in tap water, before needing to be cleaned of contaminants.

The steel rod you sent me -- is that galvanized steel?  (I.e., zinc-plated?)

[Slider2732]

The rods on the lights are the 10 year old chain link fencing
So, the composition would be galvanised steel or LLDPE - LLDPE is a plastic, so the rod must be galvanized. However, the process isn't the same as that found on sheets of regular galvanized steel, where a 'snowflake' irregular pattern may be seen, this appears to be a much finer process.
Some of the fencing here has been in the ground for many years. We moved here in 2008 and the fencing was already in distress at the rear of the yard. Pieces were cut, parts unravelled. It seems to have been used as a containment for the garbage area and for the rear driveway.
The sections in the ground have a mildly darkened appearance and yet have shown no difference in circuit output, to the weathered, above ground sections. Use of a wet paper towel returns those pieces to the same condition as the above ground pieces, with no pitting or other corrosion effects evident. Use of fine sandpaper will brighten the material and tests now are to discover if a patina or other effect rapidly or slowly forms on such sections.
Granted, the aged fencing wasn't used in electrical work over the years, but the lack of degradation was what prompted original experiments.
Furthermore, rainwater has proven to deliver the best running of anything using the material - With copper as the Positive, 0.6V at 1.2mA in tap water, compares to 0.75V at 2mA in rainwater...hence garden applications where rainwater would be the electrolyte reenergizer.
Purified water (Reverse Osmosis) is what I normally use and there's been no need to put salts etc in anything. Projects run longer and cleaner.
Tap water is horrid stuff, at least here, with the fluoridation process and other treatments.
Without running water here (still) my experiments have centered on purified water and rainwater.

[PhysicsProf]

"The rods on the lights are the 10 year old chain link fencing" -- cool!   The one you sent me I put in DISTILLED water, and it's still flashing away!

[Slider2732]

A marvellous development today.
Brad (OUBrad, b_rads at EF) has uploaded a video of his birdhouse that uses one of these circuits.
I've been helping him over the weekend to built up a similar small oscillator, powered by the Earth and he's used it to great effect.
Tom Bodett would be proud of his finished creation, the Motel 6 of birdhouses

Here's the video he's uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-DhChXECh4

[Slider2732]

ALSO  

I'm delighted to see that another very low input circuit, by Jonnydavro has been made useful through an idea I had about Peltier modules. While not directly related to the Garden Lights, it shows the ability for transistors to begin running at less than 100mV.
Such a circuit would allow increased operating parameters with multiple paralleled Earth energy circuits - with which i'm experimenting with for 1 Positive electrode, multiple Negative inputs and then the summing of those oscillator outputs.

My idea was to use the Peltier modules to deliver the energy and fire up the oscillator. Without owning any Peltiers, but understanding the operating method, Lidmotor kindly tried out the idea with his units and it works well
The 'product' solution, would be to use ice cubes from a household freezer, under the Peltier which sits on a windowsill. The heat from outside would form the differential of temperature. The hotter the day, the better it would work and the idea is to use the output to drive a small propeller fitted motor. The propeller would blow the cold of the ice into the room.
Peltier's produce low voltage but comparably strong amperage - ideal for motor work.

Here's Lidmotor's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwft_N5206Y&feature=colike

[Slider2732]

Some good progress.
It turns out, that b_rads wife runs a childrens books website and he has offered to sell the lights on the site.
http://www.jeanniesbooks.com/

I've made a fresh video, for the website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy8-y2f9ek4

Being far too labor intensive to wind 400 winds on tiny ferrites for the coils, axial inductors are the preferred method. Stronger, simpler and faster to incorporate into the lights.
Connecting the LED between Base and Emitter of the transistor has improved running when using inductors and so a 1lb bag of mixed inductors was ordered on Ebay, which arrived yesterday. The idea of a mixed large bag, was to see which exact inductor ratings work best. I also expected (from the picture on Ebay) to have plenty of component parts to be able to build plenty of lights.
Unfortunately, the bag has turned out to be complete rubbish for the intention....95% of them are 22uH ferrites, where no less than 100uH are required ! While it did weigh 1.04lb, they're of no use.
100x 1Meg resistors are on their way and there's now a stock of flashlights for LED's and of the rubberized top pieces. The copper should last out another 70 or so lights and there's no shortage of chain link fencing.

But, With a wished for retail price of $2.99ea and deals on 12 packs...I mistakenly relied too much on what was shown in the Ebay pic to get things rolling ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/110909157761?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 )
Technically, what arrived is a mixed bag...but technically is no good for putting food on the table.
 
On the upside, Brad is showing the video to people at his workplace, so more feedback can be given on the worth of the lights as a product.

[Slider2732]

By contrast - the resistors have just arrived. Perfect all around including fast shipping.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390004372584?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

It would be a good idea to post a costs breakdown, with sources, just for probable personal reference.

1x LED = 21c 5x superbright in Dollar Tree flashlight, approx tax added
1x 1M ohm resistor = 3.48c
1x 6" copper electrode = 20c ($16 house wiring Lowes, for approx 80 electrodes)
1x rubberized cap = 52C (2 halves, circuit inside that flashes, Dollar Tree)
2x >=100uH inductors, unknown price.
1x 2SC1815 and equiv transistor = salvage
1x '104' 0.1uF ceramic cap = salvage
1x 100uF 6.3V electrolytic cap = salvage
1x 6" chain link fence electrode = salvage
2x plastic mount and slide pieces = salvage
Various small gauge wire = salvage
2x finished lights USA postage, approx: $2.30
Shipping box, unknown price.

[PhysicsProf]

  Great that you're getting into production mode, Slider!  I'm impressed!

The one you sent that I put into DISTILLED water is still flashing away, since July 4th IIRC.   Eventually I'll stop it to look at the electrodes closely.  Water is crystal clear.

I'd like to buy more, for indoor use probably - will you make some without the cover half-sphere? 

IMO, the price for such a "novel light" that runs fine in distilled water should be a bit more than what you've been talking about...

[Slider2732]

Thanks
Yes, if I was on minimum wage for these, they'd be much more.
There's nothing out there, as far as i'm aware that uses completely free energy. Accepting such a radical concept is what I deemed the problem over at Kickstarter..so they have to be attractively priced to just get knowledge spread ?
Also, that i'm making these and they have to be less to the eye than a commercial product would be.
I don't know, i'm no business man yet and really do appreciate you saying they should be priced higher.


Two huge bits of news.
Firstly, Brad showed the new video to his work colleagues and with very favorable results.
People were apparently quite shocked that they do actually work and the lucky thing is that Brad himself is a fellow free energy chap so could verify that they do in fact do what they do.
All 12 from the video were to be bought up and more ordered, but the 12 themselves are on destruction tests (96F all day today and will be going in the freezer in a few days time). 1 or 2 stopped by nightfall tonight and I wondered if they'd been sun affected...but just moved them slightly upward then back down and they fired up again. The grass is yellow (as seen in the new video) and we've had only 1 rainfall in over 4 weeks now. It's quite positive in that regard and I don't blame those 2 for running short on moisture !  

The batch of 12 are to be built this weekend and then yes, sure, I can build a many as you wish
House lights could have a different design. They can have shorter electrodes and a smaller footprint. Probably handy for indicating when a plant needs watering as one idea.

Secondly, desperation forced a twist to the circuit for the better. The huge quantity of 22uH ferrite inductors from the 1lb bag are now usable
For inductors following Joule Thief design, i'd connect the end of one to the start of the other and that would be the Positive input. However, by connecting both starts together instead and with the Negative of the LED connected to the Base (rather than Collector), the inductors work !

Here's a pic of the first such circuit on test.
Next to make the circuit itself as compact within itself as possible.

[Slider2732]

Many tests and different configurations have been conducted over the past week.
The 'winner' so far, uses 22uH inductors, a larger type of LED and the LED connections being Base and Collector of C1815 transistors.

Attached is the latest schematic.

This video, shows 4 lights on test, with different configurations and shows the findings. It also hopefully demonstrates just why some elements have to be as widely naturally 'tuned' to the voltage/current available with Earth energy. If they are too narrow in operating tolerance, they may behave unexpectedly and that's no good for the variety in soil and conditions wherever they go. The extending summer drought here in the midwest has allowed some rather extraordinary conditions and in some ways is an upside of such conditions.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVzz4RinvjA

The full cover dome, a ping pong ball half, didn't show a diffusion that I was happy with so the LED now pokes through the top. The light output is greater than the previous smaller white LED's and, with allowing gluing of the top to the base of the light to be internal, really does smarten up the lights themselves...they will become the Version 2
A soft diffused glow was possible with the LED mounted lower in the light and that may become useful in a future design.
Neither the 22uH or the 56uH others will run the red/blue LED's, so larger (axial) inductor values will be needed for those, as well as a probable change to 220uF capacitors.

A couple of those in your batch Steve will be of the Version 2 type - the first such lights to be posted out. All lights will feature the larger LED's, as seen improving the light output in the video above

NB - It should be noted that the circuit designer prog didn't allow for lower voltages than a AAA battery. Actual input is more in the order of 0.6V at 30uA in bone dry earth, with 6" electrodes.

[PhysicsProf]

   Exciting work, IMO -- thanks, Slider.  
A real-life application!

[Slider2732]

Thanks Steve

Attached is a pic of the Version 2.

Also of the Thortz Energy logo.
The name comes from the way my eldest daughter used to spell 'thoughts' and from when I used to own www.thortz.com some years ago. The website was stolen from under me at renewal time, by one of those multi-buy up outfits, but the name carries on with this venture.

[Slider2732]

Update

Looks like i'm simply to call them Earth Lights...that's how they run

I've been working on the HeliPad helicopter landing pad, pics attached - The evening is about the only time that popular 3 channel mini R/C infra-red helicopters can be taken outside. The wind is practically zero during late evening and this product would enable both a takeoff and landing platform, plus lighting to see it.
It's now finished as a prototype, but already looking like a Version 4 of it will be made.
4 versions in 1 week, R+D is crazy eh.
Version 1 had the electrodes as individual positive and negative. That was changed to 1 copper and 4 chain link fence pieces mounted under the landing pad. It was tested like that and found to be somewhat haphazard when planting it in the ground (imagine putting 4 of the lights in the ground at the same time).
So, it was changed to have a USB connector on the edge of the landing pad, with the electrodes now in a circular arrangement within a plastic spool (those for speaker wire from Radio Shack). That plugs in to the landing pad. it's cleaner for storage and enables the free energy power brick itself to power other things in the future.
Version 4 will have all 4 circuits together, because I found out that the inductors will influence each other and oscillate in mutual resonance, when circuits are next to each other...just like pancake coils will. It gives a harmonized flash, as real lights would look on an actual helicopter landing pad.

[Slider2732]

Thortz Energy HeliPad demonstration
(set as Unlisted)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQhs-dPO21I

Price will be $24.95 when a better base is sourced and when cosmetically tidied.
The Version 2 garden lights will be called 'Earth Lights' and to be $6 each.

Thoughts, suggestions and opinions from you chaps would be appreciated

[PhysicsProf]

  Enjoyed your vid-demonstration, slider!

One question -- Is the helicopter entirely powered by the earth battery?

[Slider2732]

Thanks Steve,
Unfortunately the power needed by the heli is around 1A for the motors and so is still li-po powered at the moment (3.7V @ 40mAh with a 20C discharge). The wireless power conversion is in the making.
However, you raise an interesting thought for tethered flight that is possible, albeit that there's no way the solution would fit in a shirt pocket lol. Each pair of copper and chain link fence pieces will output 0.75V at 300uA all day long if wished. A large setup of parallel wired individual dirt batteries would feasibly give 4V and the 1A.....3.3 x 1000 = 3300 pairs of electrodes for the amperage and then it needs to be bumped for the voltage. Quite the number ! but would power the heli from just dirt
A more practical solution, using the same type of thing and possible right now, would be to use a lipo charger, powered in the same way. I have a USB li-po charger for small batteries and that could be fed with much less power at 5V. Hmmm, interesting avenue.