Do experiments - pursue the anomalous

[PhysicsProf]

  INITIALLY -- At Chet's suggestion (and I think its a good idea), starting a new thread devoted mainly to Devices using Permanent Magnets.
Decided to broaden this - see next posts.

SMOTs, Pendula, rotors -- what have you an interest in?  The idea is to open this up to a somewhat larger group of "builder-types," people who get in and like to build and test experimentally.  No "bully types" here (if I can put it that way, without naming names)...  we try to be open and to learn.  Now sometimes "to learn" requires disagreement -- but respect for each other is encouraged.

If you want to bring someone else in here - pls do.  We'd like an active "friendly discussion."

[gridbias]

One of the best things about the smot ramp is that it proves that it must be possible .

If only we could learn to exploit the tiny  phenomenon thousands of times per second .

Personally I see it as gaining a knowledge of coils and how they may interact with each other.

The only way to gain knowledge is to experiment and get real smart or get real lucky .

[PhysicsProf]

[snip]

The only way to gain knowledge is to experiment and get real smart or get real lucky .

Thanks, Gridbias.    
I appreciate this, and agree -- Actually do Experiments, then we get "real smart" or "real lucky".    It's tough when one doesn't really have a certain clue what will "work", at least not every time.  (To me, "working" means, a way to bring in previously untapped energy, which is quite a lofty goal IMO.).  One approach is to look for anomalies,  and follow the trail.

Think I'll broaden the thread title to -- Experiment and follow the anomalous.

What anomalies have you guys seen or learned about from a good source and wish to share?  I'll share a couple tomorrow.

[ion]

gridbias said:

The only way to gain knowledge is to experiment and get real smart or get real lucky .

I agree, however there is a caveat to this. Some people experiment and actually get more deluded, ignoring Feynman's first principle. This is ubiquitous on very many youtube posts.

Regarding the smot ramps, this has been around an awfully long time. How is it that except for one questionable Finnish design no one seems to have success at a circular self running design? What can be the holdup?

I also agree with Steve...if even a small anomaly can be detected it could lead to something larger, so should be followed fiercely.

[PhysicsProf]

  Excellent points, ION. 

I like both your quotations from Feynman. 

[Paul-R]

  Excellent points, ION. 

I like both your quotations from Feynman. 

a caveat with the second quotation: Sometimes experimenrts are set up wrongly and the conclusions are wrong.

[muDped]

  Excellent points, ION.  

I like both your quotations from Feynman. 

Aye, the quotations are a cogent critique
and summary of the state of the Free Energy
Experimenter's World as displayed in most
forums.

A whole lot of "show and tell" magic.

[gridbias]

If you had the knowledge that would enable every man to create infinite energy ..would you tell them all exactly how to?

[PhysicsProf]

If you had the knowledge that would enable every man to create infinite energy ..would you tell them all exactly how to?

This is an interesting question.  For me the question turns on this -- how can an invention of abundant energy be used or distributed to truly benefit mankind, everyday families, rather than being "taken and controlled" or "shelved" by the ruling robber-baron elite?  It is not an easy question to answer.  (Personally, I think Tesla faced this question, sought to give freely, and was "squashed" by JP Morgan).

About anomalous excess energy/heat -- this was discussed at length at ICCF-18.  I found the most impressive results from:

1.  Iwamura, anomalous transmutation of Cs to Pr  (see below- replicated!)

2.  Celani, Biberian (also Woopyjump)  and a few others, anomalous heat from loading hydrogen H2 (not D2) into metals or forming a plasma in H2O

3.  Hubler and a few others, anomalous heat sporadically (rarely) from loading D2 into Pd alloys.

[PhysicsProf]

I just posted the following over at OU, expressing my argument for many months now:

[snip]
I see no mechanism for energy gain in the system, other than a re-use of Mister Hand to reposition the ball.
...

And that is why, if there is energy gain as the object passes through the SMOT, we would consider that energy gain "anomalous".  But we cannot say in advance that there are NO untapped energy sources in nature to be uncovered -- do you agree we can not rule out novel (currently untapped) sources of energy?

  From you earlier link:

"The PM enthusiasts claim that the SMOT increases the energy of a ball moving through it. That's the claim we must test. Friction can never be completely eliminated in any mechanical system. So we arrange a way to move a ball through the smot, then do the same motion through the same space without the smot in place. We then compare the performance with and without the SMOT. If conventional physics is applicable, the performance should be no better (and probably somewhat worse) with the SMOT than without it....

With the SMOT in place, a similar set of repeated measurements is made. The error limits are determined. If the performance in the two cases [control and SMOT] differs by an amount greater than the error limits, and the difference favors the SMOT, then we might have something going on that is worth further investigation. But if the difference is within the error limits, or if the difference favors the case without the SMOT, then the fantastic claims of the SMOT are not supported.

The "black box" labeled "SMOT" in the diagram may be replaced by any magical device that is claimed to boost or increase energy of material objects passing through it.

At least he allows for the experimental possibility that the SMOT may "boost or increase energy of material objects passing through it."  Do you?

Unless you are saying that we now know EVERYTHING about Nature, no surprises left, no possibility of anomalous or untapped energy entering into the system...

[ion]

If you had the knowledge that would enable every man to create infinite energy ..would you tell them all exactly how to?

If every man could create infinite energy, we would have a lot of warring gods trying to take control of each others source unto obliteration.

We have this to a much lesser degree right now with energy control wars.

We may not be evolved enough to handle infinite energy.

While an interesting philosophical question IMHO it is a bit extreme.

If we recast it in more practical terms e.g. what if each man could have a limited but sufficient source of energy to supply his own and the needs of his immediate family?

Would you tell them how to do it?

I think the answer is yes, and we have been sharing ideas ever since the first man chipped the edges of a square stone to make a wheel, and shared the info with his buddy in the cave next door.

To share or not to share is not the question for it will all be shared anyway, morphogenetic field theory will see to it.

If you hold back, your knowledge is still in the thought waves that circle the planet and it will just emerge elsewhere. Then, those that held back the progress and well being of humankind will take their proper place in the dustbin of history.

A thought provoking question indeed.....what are you holding back?

[TinMan]

If you had the knowledge that would enable every man to create infinite energy ..would you tell them all exactly how to?

I think a lot of deaths would follow,but not from fighting or power struggles. I think it would be more like people like us seeing what we could actually do with this unlimited energy. I for one have always wanted to travel through space,and search for planets like our's-as i believe most would. So i would see myself trying exactly that with my infinite energy supply,and i would probably die shortly after liftoff lol. As funny as that sound's,i think a lot of people would try the same thing-space travel.

Maybe a finite energy supply would be a better starting point-we learn to walk before we run.

[Centraflow]

If you hold back, your knowledge is still in the thought waves that circle the planet and it will just emerge elsewhere. Then, those that held back the progress and well being of humankind will take their proper place in the dustbin of history.

A thought provoking question indeed.....what are you holding back?
[/quote]

I think you would hold back sufficient so as you were not made a ruin of, or threatened, or at the worst had a timely accident, I know this is not energy related "or is it", just look at Snowden and tapping, I'm sure there were many plans made by the U S government of how he could have a timely accident, seems the Russians are now looking after him very well indeed with a high paid job and lots of security.

Regards

Mike