Tesla's Extra Coil

[Allcanadian]

Tesla's Extra Coil

from Itsu

Anyone remembers this secret and/or can explain the principle behind that "third coil" as it seems that is what is being done in our setup using the kacher (1st and 2nd coil) and the antenna (3rd coil)?

What first peaked my curiosity about what Tesla called his "special coil" is that even the most die hard Tesla fans had literally no idea what in fact it was supposed to do. There were many theories however none remotely close to what Tesla described in his lectures. My experiments with the special coil revealed some pretty interesting phenomena.

So what did Tesla claim his "special coil" (SC) was actually supposed to do?...

In some of Tesla's earlier lectures he describes the SC as a delay line of sorts. Whereby the induced HV on the secondary was discharged into the SC so that the SC and top load could hold it's charged state longer. Tesla described it as a wave form modification where the Sine wave on the secondary became a square wave on the top load. That is, Tesla described the HV secondary quickly discharging into the SC/top load where it was held or delayed for a period of time then quickly discharged back into the secondary. Tesla also claimed the reason and means for doing this are well known to those skilled in the art.

Do you see the problem?, anyone who understands electrodynamics or has done real experiments knows this is not the case with all the SC circuit diagrams posted on the internet and in practice there is very little or no delay. Thus basically everyone got it wrong and were not paying attention to what Tesla actually said and did. In fact, in Tesla's earlier work he claims to have isolated a third coil from the HV secondary with a spark gap to delay the action. Not only using a spark gap but to move the third SC a distance away so that there was no apparent discharge between them at all. Now we can begin to see where everyone went wrong and why all of the the circuit diagrams we see on the internet are also wrong.

In fact the SC setup works perfectly well just as Tesla described so long as the HV secondary discharges into the SC/top load through a spark gap to delay the action. It's simply a HV isolated series LC delay line, what baffles me is how so many could miss something so obvious...

The next obvious question is why delay the action, to what end?... I will cover that in another post.

Regards
AC

[Grumpy]

Wasn't the third coil, the "magnifier coil"?

I recall Tesla said it couldn't be inductively coupled the other coils or it would dampen the effect.

Later, in an interview when he was in his 70's, he said that the magnifier was the technology at that time, but it was not the way he would do things now.

[Allcanadian]

Grumpy

Wasn't the third coil, the "magnifier coil"?

I recall Tesla said it couldn't be inductively coupled the other coils or it would dampen the effect.

Later, in an interview when he was in his 70's, he said that the magnifier was the technology at that time, but it was not the way he would do things now.

I would agree on all points, however take a second look at Tesla's patent.

The secondary is split and then there are four conductors coming from the top of the secondary to the apparatus above it. Also note that there is only one terminal connected to the top load. Kind of a strange layout for a supposed simple "Tesla coil"?...

Regards
AC

[picowatt]

Grumpy
I would agree on all points, however take a second look at Tesla's patent.

The secondary is split and then there are four conductors coming from the top of the secondary to the apparatus above it. Also note that there is only one terminal connected to the top load. Kind of a strange layout for a supposed simple "Tesla coil"?...

Regards
AC

In the drawing presented, a primary coil C inductively drives the secondary coil A.  The secondary coil A has one end connected to ground and its other end is connected to the bottom of the third coil B.  The top end of coil B is connected to the top load by metal cylinder B' or the coil itself may be the full length of B and B' (as per the patent text).

Coil B is a free resonator driven by the output of secondary A.  Coil B is not inductively coupled to either A or C.

I believe the "four wires" you mentioned are actually just the cutaway view of the hood H, which is used, via its increased radius of curvature, to prevent arc breakout from the top of coil B.  Hood H is further divided by slots to reduce eddy currents within the hood.

As usual, there is only one conductor connected to the top load.

PW

[Allcanadian]

picowatt

In the drawing presented, a primary coil C inductively drives the secondary coil A.  The secondary coil A has one end connected to ground and its other end is connected to the bottom of the third coil B.  The top end of coil B is connected to the top load by metal cylinder B' or the coil itself may be the full length of B and B' (as per the patent text). Coil B is a free resonator driven by the output of secondary A.  Coil B is not inductively coupled to either A or C.

I would agree.

I believe the "four wires" you mentioned are actually just the cutaway view of the hood H, which is used, via its increased radius of curvature, to prevent arc breakout from the top of coil B.  Hood H is further divided by slots to reduce eddy currents within the hood. As usual, there is only one conductor connected to the top load.

I re-read the text and it still makes littles sense as someone who works with HV. I understand Tesla claims the "slotted hood" which I mistook for wires is supposedly to reduce breakout however obviously that's not true. Anyone who knows anything about HV knows the slots in "H" as shown are a likely point it would break out. We can also see the upper tube "B" connected to the top load seems to be connected to "H" and a wire from the top of the secondary "B" connected near "H".

The point I would make is that Tesla is obviously not telling the whole truth and most inventors don't to protect their intellectual property. The fact remains that anyone could build this patent as shown and to my knowledge the chances of it working as described are zero. I mean look at the ground connection "E", in the real magnifying transmitter it extended down some 120 feet into the ground then formed four separate conductors each near 320 feet in length. Yet here Tesla shows a convenient little box a few feet under the ground.

I see more than a few contradictions here and if someone told any credible Tesla coiler that part of the secondary/top load should be segmented or slotted to prevent eddy currents they would probably do a facepalm. It's just completely absurd because the current is generally always low and any surface not curved with sharp edges will always break out. 

Regards
AC

[picowatt]

picowatt

I would agree.

I re-read the text and it still makes littles sense as someone who works with HV. I understand Tesla claims the "slotted hood" which I mistook for wires is supposedly to reduce breakout however obviously that's not true. Anyone who knows anything about HV knows the slots in "H" as shown are a likely point it would break out. We can also see the upper tube "B" connected to the top load seems to be connected to "H" and a wire from the top of the secondary "B" connected near "H".

Yes, B' is connected to both the top of coil B and hood H.  Anyone who knows anything about HV knows that a shape can be defined by smaller sections of a given shape.  Take a look at the top load, as also discussed in the patent, the top load is a made of many smaller curved sections that define a toroidal shape.  Also, one of those small sections on the top load is of a smaller radius than the rest to limit top load voltage and define the arc breakout location.   

The point I would make is that Tesla is obviously not telling the whole truth and most inventors don't to protect their intellectual property. The fact remains that anyone could build this patent as shown and to my knowledge the chances of it working as described are zero. I mean look at the ground connection "E", in the real magnifying transmitter it extended down some 120 feet into the ground then formed four separate conductors each near 320 feet in length. Yet here Tesla shows a convenient little box a few feet under the ground.

Many have successfully replicated this three coil design.  The third coil significantly improves efficiency.

The patent drawing accurately portrays what is described and what is claimed, which is all that is necessary for a patent drawing.   

I see more than a few contradictions here and if someone told any credible Tesla coiler that part of the secondary/top load should be segmented or slotted to prevent eddy currents they would probably do a facepalm. It's just completely absurd because the current is generally always low and any surface not curved with sharp edges will always break out. 

I see no contradictions.  The top load being made of segmented sections is pretty standard and used daily in many fields, as using segments to define a shape is suitable for most HV applications.  Same goes for the hood H, its segments define its shape, which is meant to have a radius larger than the B/B' connection point to prevent arc breakout at that connection.  Regarding eddy current reduction, I do not know why you feel that is absurd.  Eddy currents at the B/B' connection would present a parasitic load.

I have studied Tesla for many years, he was indeed a genius, but too many people always try to read more into his work than what is actually there and refuse to accept the literal reading of his patents and notes. 

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... 

PW

[Allcanadian]

picowatt

Yes, B' is connected to both the top of coil B and hood H.  Anyone who knows anything about HV knows that a shape can be defined by smaller sections of a given shape.  Take a look at the top load, as also discussed in the patent, the top load is a made of many smaller curved sections that define a toroidal shape.  Also, one of those small sections on the top load is of a smaller radius than the rest to limit top load voltage and define the arc breakout location.   

The top load may have many smaller surfaces however they are all curved and closed unlike the hood H. I have fired up hundreds of HV machines some upwards of 500kV and I can tell you as a fact H as depicted will bleed corona discharges like a sieve.

In any case this debate has little to do with Tesla's special coil and it's purpose. My interest is more in how a third coil could allow a system like this to transmit large amount of power long distances.

I have studied Tesla for many years, he was indeed a genius, but too many people always try to read more into his work than what is actually there and refuse to accept the literal reading of his patents and notes.

Of course and there's nothing to see here, the federal government agencies always confiscates all of an inventors work and labels them top secret when there's nothing to see, lol.

Regards
AC

[muDped]

My interest is more in how a third coil could allow a system like this to transmit large amount of power long distances.

We know that in order to do that his "system" would have to function as something other than a High Powered Radio Transmitter.

If power is to be transmitted efficiently through space any distance some new or unknown technique would have been necessary.

But, on the other hand, if the "System" was instead designed to collect power from the atmosphere, as many believe, that is more easily understood.

Has anyone heard anything recently about the Texas Tesla Tower?

[picowatt]

picowatt
The top load may have many smaller surfaces however they are all curved and closed unlike the hood H. I have fired up hundreds of HV machines some upwards of 500kV and I can tell you as a fact H as depicted will bleed corona discharges like a sieve.

I too have worked with HV and I do not understand why you believe the hood would do the opposite of its intended function.   The wire used to wind the third coil B was of a small radius.  Tesla discovered that a close wound coil wrapped around a larger cylinder allowed the breakdown voltage to be determined by the radius of the cylinder and not the smaller radius of the wire.  Where that wire connects to B', the the wires radius limited the arc breakout voltage.  His solution was to cover the B/B' transition with a hood that defined a larger radius of curvature.  Just as the connection to the top load is always made at the center of the top load where there is the least potential, having the B/B' connection inside (for the most part) the radius determined by the hood's curvature prevents arc breakout from the B/B' transition.   

In any case this debate has little to do with Tesla's special coil and it's purpose. My interest is more in how a third coil could allow a system like this to transmit large amount of power long distances.

The purpose of the third coil was, for the most part, to improve efficiency.  Efficiency with a longer secondary and no third coil was around 35%.  By having a smaller inductively coupled secondary driving the third non-inductively coupled coil, the same potentials could be achieved on a given top load with closer to 65% efficiency (numbers may vary, this is from memory).  Keep in mind that Tesla was driving this thing with a dedicated coal fired power plant.  Any improvements that increased efficiency reduced the power requirements and operating cost of that power plant.  You should be able to find additional info on the operation of the third coil on the web.

Of course and there's nothing to see here, the federal government agencies always confiscates all of an inventors work and labels them top secret when there's nothing to see, lol.

That's how the story goes.  However, there is not one direct quote from Tesla, or any writings in his patents or notes, that I am aware of, where Tesla himself claims to be able to harness the wheel works of nature, so to speak, and actually receive what we would call "free" energy using his resonant coil systems.  Many people want to believe he had that capability so they tend to read way more into his published works than is actually written.

PW

[Allcanadian]

mudped

We know that in order to do that his "system" would have to function as something other than a High Powered Radio Transmitter.

If power is to be transmitted efficiently through space any distance some new or unknown technique would have been necessary.

I would agree, extraordinary claims require not only extraordinary proof but more so extraordinary technology. The fact remains that there were many credible witnesses who claimed to have seen great amounts of power being transmitted over large distances. Now were seeing others like the Corum/Viziv installation claiming they have reproduced Tesla's work.

I liked this article...https://thefifthestate.com.au/energy-lead/energy/nikola-tesla-dreamed-of-free-electricity-what-happened/

Tesla was eventually undone by what he called "ignorant, unimaginative people, consumed by self-interest"— powerful men that sought to protect the immensely profitable, low-tech industries they had spent a lifetime building.

Today's fossil-fuel industry, a legacy of that past, has fought just as hard in recent decades to protect the same interests — Luddites and laggards afraid of losing their companies to the wind and the sun.

Regards
AC