Structured Water Links

[CompuTutor]

I found this looking for water molecule size:

Seems like a good starter link for this area.

I'll add others as I find them or others post below

This starter page is by a retired chemist



http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html

http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/aboutwater.html

http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/sitemap.html

[MileHigh]

Those are some great links.

From the same place:  "Gallery of water-related pseudoscience"

This index lists some of the companies, products, processes and people whose names I have come across in my explorations of water-related pseudoscience and quackery.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

MileHigh

[giantkiller]

Those are some great links.

From the same place:  "Gallery of water-related pseudoscience"

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

MileHigh

So I follow the links and lo and behold I find this:
http://www.neck911.com/stroke.html

This is a martial arts move known by assasins and people have paid chiropractors to have this done. Oh, the popping sound means there is tension released. No stress when you're dead. 

[Allcanadian]

@All

"Gallery of water-related pseudoscience"

I have always found this term "pseudoscience" a little confusing, not so much the definition of the term but moreso how people apply it. For example a Japanese scientist, Dr. Masaru Emoto--"The Hidden Messages in Water", studied how different influences can effect the crystaline structure of water as it freezes in the form of snowflakes. That is he has thousands of photographs taken under proper scientific conditions and thousands of pages of documentation and all of his work was meticulous in every respect. Then most all the scientific community labelled his work as "pseudoscience" and they did this because Dr.Emoto discovered that the emotions of people nearby could influence the crystal structure of the water as it froze. You see the scientific community found it easier to just ignore the scientific facts and rely on their own unjustified opinions than admit they did not understand why this effect was occurring -- which has nothing to do with "science" but moreso opinions and human nature. Which begs the question, what is pseudoscience?, it would seem to me that in most cases the labelling of something as pseudoscience is most often a result of ignorance rather than actual facts or real science. It just seems odd that the persons with no real facts are usually the first to call something "pseudoscience" or "junk science" and if these people have no real facts then what in the hell do they really know?.
Here is another oddity in the whacky world of water science, I have built many machines to produce Structured/Charged water and many persons consumed this water and all preferred it over regular tap water. They also said that it made them feel better, that is they had fewer headaches, less heartburn and more energy in a general sense. In fact I have never heard of one single case in which this "water" has ever made a person feel worse and in every case they either feel no difference or feel better. Now here is the catch, even if this water produced absolutely no physical changes in their body the fact that they felt better is a major improvement because it is a scientific fact that stress/emotions (how a person feels) plays a role in their health. Now if thousands of credible mainstream scientists with many decades of data have determined that how a person "feels" has direct consequences on their health then it would seem to me that the critics who claim that this supposedly plain old water has absolutely no benefits must be full of shit. You see science isn't about connecting only the dots which serve our own best interests or our unjustified opinions or beliefs, science is about the facts of any matter. The fact is that if anyone anywhere drinks this Structured/Charged water and feels better in any way then scientifically speaking this must be considered as beneficial to their health-- funny how that works.
Regards
AC

[wings]

Giuliano Preparata

The essential result can be stated as follows. An ensemble of a very large number N of particles, can assume two different configurations and are coupled with the e.m. field (as every particle made up of charged components, for instance atoms and molecules, does), enters a coherent state when its density exceeds a threshold and its T lies below a critical value. This coherent state has an energy lower than the original gas-like state; in the coherent state the particles oscillate between the two configurations in unison, in tune with an e.m. field grown up from the vacuum fluctuations and trapped within the assembly of coresonating particles. This coherent regime of both matter and e.m. fields holds within a region of space whose size is the wavelength of the e.m. oscillations; this region is called "coherence domain" (CD) and its size ranges from a fraction of a micron for liquids and metal electrons to some microns for solids to several tens of microns for ions in solution. ....is then the sum of two mesoscopic components, a coherent fraction made up by a large number of CD's and a gas-like non coherent fraction made up by particles filling the interstices among CD's. CD's are able to establish bounds among themselves through the tails (evanescent fields) of the quite intense e.m. fields existing inside the domains. So there is a large cage of the CD's within which there is a definite phase and zero entropy, trapping a "gas" of non coherent particles, (EDG)


http://newenergytimes.com/v2/views/Group1/Preparata.shtml

http://books.google.com/books?id=u-MvobTFGLEC&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220&dq=cluster+giuliano+preparata&source=bl&ots=9Zd7S5MRWu&sig=SllodcFmi2WvHl9Cifd-GcorrFc&hl=en&ei=0UFATrG0I47Mswbom52rDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


Luc Montagnier

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DNA_sequence_reconstituted_from_Water_Memory.php?printing=yes

[giantkiller]

@all,
great posts.

@AC,
I couldn't agrre with ya more. If one would youtube 'Emoto rice experiment' one would find many links of people who have done this experiment and have gotten postive results as a table top experiment recipe.
Gee, it works...

Another link will appear of water experiments. Talking over water to make it 'good'. Every miracle that Jesus performed included water. Now that should make one think.
Calmed the storms, walked on water, changed water into wine, healed the blind man with saliva, stopped a womans bleeding, healed many infirmaties(the body is 98% water), caused a fig tree to shrivel up and die, reattached a guards ears after Peter severed it with a sword strike, sweat blood, and when pierced on the cross water flowed out. Regardless of belief systems one has to ask: Whats up with that?

Can we garner science and physics out of this or just miracles? I choose 'Frequency equals matter' and betcha I am correct.

[muDped]

Allcanadian,

Once again you've nailed it.

The "debunkers" and other strict organizational dogmatists
really cannot help themselves - it is all that they know how
to do and their self-image relies upon such activity.  Their
greatest fear is loss of "credibility" from amongst their peers.

All that they do is obeisance to their GOD of SCIENCE.

Little do they realize that they are woefully deceived and
are putting their faith in Mammon.

Giantkiller,

Very true indeed.   Water is simply miraculous stuff!

[Allcanadian]

@Dumped
It is not so much that I am against criticism or debunkers however the rule these people apply to others I apply to them, they are not above criticism and I hold them accountable to their words. To be honest I like them because they are intelligent and logical and usually I can tear their reality limb from limb in little more than a few minutes which can be fun at times. The problem I see is that the stardard they apply could be considered as little more than a general consensus, that is their science is considered as fact because many people have agreed it is a fact, this does not mean it is factual in reality only that many people have the opinion it is. As well if this science is beyond reproach then why is it always changing and why are we always learning new things if all is already understood?, it makes no sense.
We also have larger issues to contend with, most all the modern science we know reduces to the fundamentals which leads us to Quantum Mechanics which relates to particles and fields. However these particles are not fully understood and the fields are apparently magical virtual photons flittering in and out of existence from multiple universes. As such most of modern science may as well just be based on faries and unicorns riding these particles, hi ho sliver, because we are not dealing with anything in the way of real facts only theories. The proof can be found by asking a simple question--- What is a Magnetic, Electric and Gravitational Field?, I do not mean what they do nor how they act which is about as far as science has progressed I mean what are they are fundamentally?. In this case nobody would seem to have an answer which does not verge on the absurd or the realm of fairy tales and to be honest I find this a little disturbing considering most of the persons we call hard core critics would seem to believe they know everything. All I am saying is that we should all try to keep an open mind and be considerate of others opinions because when it comes right down to it most of what we believe would seem to be based on a foundation of quicksand. I think we have a lot to learn and that we will see things in the future we could hardly imagine and I imagine most of this will contradict what we thought we believed today. Such is life, we live we learn and change is inevitable.
Regards
AC

[Farrah Day]

The fact is that if anyone anywhere drinks this Structured/Charged water and feels better in any way then scientifically speaking this must be considered as beneficial to their health-- funny how that works.

The mind is a powerful instrument and belief is a powerful medicine. I believe it's called the 'placebo' effect.

[MileHigh]

The reason behind the link is that some people may have noticed that on another forum people were recently led to believe that they were going to get information on free energy but 90% of the presentation was for a multi-level-marketing selling scheme for an allegedly "special" form of water.  I think the suggested resale for single 2-liter containers was 80 dollars.

That product is listed among the 100+ other forms of "special water" sources if you follow the link.

I'll tell you frankly what I think without having done any research.  It's probably just salt water with some other trace elements in minute quantities.  There is nothing special about the water.  I don't believe that they can replicate cellular processes that rely on DNA and RNA and all of the other organic messaging processes to produce some special molecules that are used in normal cellular function.  Even if you could do this, I am not convinced that it would make it intact through your digestive system.  You can forget that your digestive system is basically a pool of acid waiting to break things down.  You can't forget that "100% natural" is simply doing nothing, just eating a normal balanced diet and drinking when you are thirsty.

I would assume that no double-blind tests have been done to test the alleged magical powers of this salt water.  They go MLM and fly under the radar of the FDA.

Water is just a fluid of sticky H2O molecules in continuous random motion.  The notion that you can "structure" water that's something akin to a bunch of slimy sardines thrashing about in a small container is preposterous.  Any chemist would state unequivocally that the notion of "structured" water is not valid.  I note that this product is not pitched as "structured" water, they allege that they can take salt water, put it into a black box, and then out comes salt water infused with allegedly beneficial molecules that are normally manufactured inside cells.  The guy associated with the link is a retired chemist.

MileHigh

[wings]

the denial of the experiences of others presupposes that we will have other more valuable.

we are human beings and so we have great talent but we must also accept the limits of knowledge and experience.

I have no particular opinions on the matter.
but I can deduce from the research of scientists who have more tools than me, that water quality has not fully investigated

[Allcanadian]

@Milehigh

The reason behind the link is that some people may have noticed that on another forum people were recently led to believe that they were going to get information on free energy but 90% of the presentation was for a multi-level-marketing selling scheme for an allegedly "special" form of water.  I think the suggested resale for single 2-liter containers was 80 dollars.

I think you may mean the Energetic Forum fiasco and I would agree with you that it would appear to be a marketing ploy on the surface. I think the key word here may be Integrity. If a person say's they really want to help people and make their lives better then in the next instant tries to sell them a bottle of "special" salt water for 80$, well I do not think this is a sign of integrity in any sense of the word as integrity is not negotiable, we either have it and hold to our convictions or we do not. To be honest I am not sure why anyone would sabatoge their own credibility in such an obvious way and not expect anyone to notice, it makes no sense.

Water is just a fluid of sticky H2O molecules in continuous random motion.  The notion that you can "structure" water that's something akin to a bunch of slimy sardines thrashing about in a small container is preposterous.  Any chemist would state unequivocally that the notion of "structured" water is not valid. 

Maybe the chemist should talk to a Quantum Physicist because the archaic notion that everything is just a random soup of particle oscillations is quite outdated. As well if we consider the work of Dr. Masaru Emoto a simple question comes to mind -- If the emotions of a person nearby can effect the crystaline structure of freezing water then was this force which changed the "structure" present before the water froze, during the event or only after it?. This is why what I regard as science relates to all those annoying little details few want to consider because they only raise more questions which usually contradict what we think we know.
Regards
AC

[giantkiller]

And now for an expert's view:
Hidden Nature: The Startling Insights Of Victor Schauberger
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0863154328

My view and hope is that most of the people that have the most to offer should have read the most books that the mainstream doesn't know or can handle.
This comes under the heading of 'Things they didn't teach us or avoided in school.'

We all here have an insight to processes that the common person has no clue about. So, What can be done with this paradigm shifting information.
The campfire is out. Do we crawl in our tents or greet a new day?

[Allcanadian]

@FarrahDay

The mind is a powerful instrument and belief is a powerful medicine. I believe it's called the 'placebo' effect.

Let's dig a little deeper---

A placebo ( /pləˈsiboʊ/; Latin: I shall please[2]) is a sham or simulated medical intervention. Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect.

---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

So technically speaking many may consider a "placebo" to be a sham which by definition is --- A trick which deludes, a cheap falseness, an imitation or counterfeit purporting to be genuine---http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sham

Well now we have a real problem, if one person takes a real medication and another person takes a placebo but both experience the same result then what did the expensive medication with all it's nasty side effects really do? If we are going to consider something as a "sham" by definition then in the case above it is in fact the medication which is the sham because the first person could have just taken the safe and inexpensive placebo and experienced the same results.

LOL, I like this part of the definition of placebo---

However, when used as treatment in clinical medicine (as opposed to laboratory research), the deception involved in the use of placebos creates tension between the Hippocratic Oath and the honesty of the doctor-patient relationship

Hmm, now let me get this straight, all of a sudden the doctors have a conscience when they give a patient a safe and inert substance which may improve their condition but apparently they have no issue will prescibing medications which have a list of side effects covering many pages of text?. It was my impression that all doctors must take an oath to "Do no harm" yet apparently they have no issue with prescribing medication which in many cases should be considered as unsafe if not toxic, maybe they should have called it the "Hypocritical Oath".
Regards
AC

[muDped]

...

---Hmm, now let me get this straight, all of a sudden the doctors have a conscience when they give a patient a safe and inert substance which may improve their condition but apparently they have no issue will prescibing medications which have a list of side effects covering many pages of text?. It was my impression that all doctors must take an oath to "Do no harm" yet apparently they have no issue with prescribing medication which in many cases should be considered as unsafe if not toxic, maybe they should have called it the "Hypocritical Oath".
Regards
AC

Doctors, throughout their formal training regimen, are
subjected to intensive mind control methodologies
(a form of hypnosis) which rearranges normal ethical
concerns.  They are conditioned to believe that "Big
Pharma" (their principal benefactor) can do no wrong;
that Big Pharma is the provider of medical miracles.

Politicians, within the District of Corruption, undergo similar
programming courtesy of Big Money.

Corruption then is assured a steady path of flow downhill
to the masses.

Fortunately, not all are affected equally throughout the
indoctrination and programming - some few find it within
themselves to resist in order to retain their sanity.

Twisting the minds of people is simple stuff when one
knows the secrets.

Education?  What has it become institutionally?
Behavior Modification.  Not in a good way.

Yes indeed!  Hypocrites have taken over the positions of
power and authority.

[MileHigh]