Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment

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exnihiloest

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #600 on: 2012-05-14, 07:47:58 »

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In the previous week I came across a paper about quantum mechanics which talked about an electronics simulation of coupled quantum oscillators.
When I saw the schematic, I found it very innovative in spite it is simple:

Here is the idea: there are two coupled LC circuits, one with a resistance that damps the oscillation while the negative resistance in the second one provides energy and compensates the attenuation from the other side. The system is said to bypass the bandwidth theorem and to transfer energy quasi-instantly between the two sides: "the latter case indicates the possibility of transforming an initial state to an orthogonal final one, or in more practical terms, transferring energy from one side to the other, in an arbitrarily short time interval."
http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.1847
My goal is not to discuss this complicated paper about QM, but only the part concerning the electronics simulation: the left side of page 2.

I don't know for sure if it can be of interest for our actual topic. I'm testing spice simulations. I have already modelized the complete schematics of a neg resistance with an op amp and shall now test the circuit response.

Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment

CoupledOscNegRes.jpg (15.76 kB, 455x208 - viewed 2994 times.)

poynt99	Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #601 on: 2012-05-14, 13:20:00 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3538 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	As the discussion is drifting, I'll move the latest posts to another new thread, if that is ok with you guys. --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

GibbsHelmholtz

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #602 on: 2012-05-14, 13:51:17 »

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Posts: 700

Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-05-14, 13:20:00

As the discussion is drifting, I'll move the latest posts to another new thread, if that is ok with you guys.

Sure Poynt, whatever you feel is necessary.

Exn,

The second graph where the inverse slope saying that the current in the secondary start out high and fall off to zero as time goes by. It takes about 5 seconds into the sim to see it fall off close to zero.

exnihiloest

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #603 on: 2012-05-14, 17:37:18 »

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Posts: 1504

Quote from: poynt99 on 2012-05-14, 13:20:00

As the discussion is drifting, I'll move the latest posts to another new thread, if that is ok with you guys.

I have put it here because we discussed about coupling and this is an original setup not yet experimented. I imagined that there were possibilities to link it to this thread but I don't know how. So if you think it is out of topic, don't hesitate to move it.

exnihiloest	Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #604 on: 2012-05-14, 17:46:22 »
Newbie Posts: 1504	Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-05-14, 13:51:17 ... The second graph where the inverse slope saying that the current in the secondary start out high and fall off to zero as time goes by. It takes about 5 seconds into the sim to see it fall off close to zero. Bizarre. In my simulations with ltspice the currents in primary and secondary are always well correlated.

GibbsHelmholtz

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #605 on: 2012-05-19, 01:55:48 »

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Posts: 700

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012-05-14, 07:47:58

In the previous week I came across a paper about quantum mechanics which talked about an electronics simulation of coupled quantum oscillators.
When I saw the schematic, I found it very innovative in spite it is simple:

Here is the idea: there are two coupled LC circuits, one with a resistance that damps the oscillation while the negative resistance in the second one provides energy and compensates the attenuation from the other side. The system is said to bypass the bandwidth theorem and to transfer energy quasi-instantly between the two sides: "the latter case indicates the possibility of transforming an initial state to an orthogonal final one, or in more practical terms, transferring energy from one side to the other, in an arbitrarily short time interval."
http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.1847
My goal is not to discuss this complicated paper about QM, but only the part concerning the electronics simulation: the left side of page 2.

I don't know for sure if it can be of interest for our actual topic. I'm testing spice simulations. I have already modelized the complete schematics of a neg resistance with an op amp and shall now test the circuit response.

Hey Exn.,

I came across this guy simulation. The circuit keep going after power is disconnected. If this is a bug, someone should identify what it is and notify falstad. I think it might be related to your post of negative resistance sim. I did some modification and it gives out the same result. I monitor several point on the circuit and seems like every part is functioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD_Bwwvlc3I&feature=youtu.be

Crazy sim

exnihiloest

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #606 on: 2012-05-19, 10:26:43 »

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Posts: 1504

Hi Gibbs, The bug can be related to any thing, but likely to the 555 model. Generally, only a nominal functioning is modelized. A 555 is specified for a power voltage range 4.5v - 16v. If you power it with 1.5v, the model doesn't apply. Another example is transistor 2N2222A. We can use it as a negative resistance by connecting its emitter and collector in a reverse way. But this is not simulable with an ordinary 2N2222A model because it's out of a normal functioning.

The simulations are restricted by Kirchoff's equations saying that 1-1=0. If you observe "1", you can be sure there is a bug or the model is not used in its domain of validity.

I know you are convinced, otherwise you would have already built the setup with a real 555, isn't it?

exnihiloest

Re: Professor Walter Lewin's Non-conservative Fields Experiment « Reply #607 on: 2012-05-19, 10:34:40 »

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Posts: 1504

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012-05-19, 01:55:48

...
I think it might be related to your post of negative resistance sim.
...

A negative resistance must be considered as a power supply. It really provides energy. Spice allows for negative resistance values. If you put one in a circuit, you get a "perpetual motion".
But in the real world, a negative resistance is negative only around an operating point obtained by biasing the dipole with a DC source, and it is this DC source that provides energy.

I'm now revisiting the Kapanadze's device with this idea that a negative resistance (may be in a spark gap?) could be the cause of energy gain in his coupled circuits. I'm not yet convinced if it is a scam or if he has really something.