HHO inherent overunity to run generator

[feynman]

This is the thread I will be using to post the information I have been posting in the Thane Bi-toroid thread regarding possible COP>1 applications of HHO gas.

[feynman]

There's a youtube video on PesWiki of showing some guy in Texas running his car on a standard HHO setup (Fast Freddy).   Just water, no gasoline.  He injects the HHO directly into the fuel line or something like that, bypassing the air intake manifold.  People have expressed skepticism on this one, but I haven't heard a real criticism yet  (besides "free energy isn't possible laws of thermodynamics blah blah").   So please, by all means, post any legit criticism of Fast Freddy here.

http://pesn.com/2011/01/06/9501744_Top_Free_Energy_News_Stories_2010/



There's also a second video on there of some guys in Germany closed-looping a generator and alternator (genset) with HHO gas fed into it.   This is the video that really interests me. Just look on the PESwiki energy 2011 article for these two videos.

http://pesn.com/2010/12/25/9501743_Anton_HHO_self-running_in_elevator/

Anyway , Both setups (the genset and the water-car) -- assuming both are legit, which I think they are -- are NOT using Stanley Meyer HV-type water splitting, nor Bob Boyce type resonant water splitting... yet still are producing 2-3L/min of high quality HHO. (This is from measurements).  If 3L-6L / min can run an engine under certain circumstances, we need to rethink our assumptions .  There are possibilities to why.... perhaps HHO is in a slightly different molecular configuration after splitting and recombination (perhaps it is some sort of linear, complex, or resonant ionic or hydrogen bonding of H2 and O2,  rather than the standard SP3 hybridized orbitals in source unsplit water, or the 2:1 molar ratio of diatomic gasses in the official knowledge)  .  It doesn't matter why if it works, assuming it does (as I have not tested personally, but am in contact with people who have).

For the electrolysis, the distance between plates should be 3mm.  Current density should be <30-40mA per cm^2 of the plates.  Voltage per cell should not exceed 2V.

A small 2.5HP genset can run on 3L/min hydroxy when of high quality and diluted with 99% air , 1% HHO.  The power consumption should be around 500-600W to split the water, but off a 2.5HP generator i think the output is more like 1kW.

More info to come over the weekend, this is just a quick overview.  I haven't tested this method personally, but I will.

PS

That 3L-6L/min is from a 60cell /120cell series electroliser (fed from the 120VAC/240VAC mains through full-wave rectifier) is more than sufficient to run a small generator to close the loop.  HHO is burns 1000 times faster than gasoline -- it actually detonates.    

All that needs to be done apparently, to replicate these closed loop HHO setups, is to make modifications to cause the ignition spark to fire somewhere between -40% TDC and +40% TDC and remove the firing of the waste spark.   Thank you .

I see.  

The guy that runs his car on 100% HHO is not by any chance the now, notorious, Fast Freddy is he?  If so you can scratch that straight away.
-Farrah Day

Yes, that's the guy I used as an example.  At least one of them. Why should we scratch him off?

The person I am talking to is not Fast Freedy btw.

Is that loaded or unloaded?  Will 3 litre/min provide enough gas to meet a 99/1 air/gas ratio?
-Farrah Day

Unloaded , at idle, 3L/min on 2.5HP generator into intake manifold , of 'high-quality'  (no definition exists yet of what this term means)  HHO.  Apparently that 3L per min is on the low side of the gas requirement, and won't power a load ;  you'd probably need to double it to 6L/min to do this 'for reals' with the same generator (this has also been done by some German guys)  

What do you mean by 'quality' of hydroxy gas?  That is, what in your view would be the fundamental difference between high and low quality hydroxy?  
-Farrah Day

I don't know.  First step , for me, is to build a 60-cell electrolysis unit run off 120VAC mains run through full-wave rectifier with no capacitor smoothing into my series cell, such that I get around 2V potential per cell.   Then I'll measure displacement.

In terms of the actual 'quality' of the gas, I assume this has something to do with quantum effects during gas production, but I really have no idea.   It could be something as simple as gas purity or as complex as quantum electrodynamics.

I'm not making any 'claim' here -- rather I'm relaying very credible information from a new associate who has provided all this information for free.   I will not be making any claims on this phenomenon until I conduct my own experiments.   But this is at the top of my short list of things I will be building.

[Farrah Day]

PS

That 3L-6L/min is from a 60cell /120cell series electroliser (fed from the 120VAC/240VAC mains through full-wave rectifier) is more than sufficient to run a small generator to close the loop.  HHO is burns 1000 times faster than gasoline -- it actually detonates.    

All that needs to be done apparently, to replicate these closed loop HHO setups, is to make modifications to cause the ignition spark to fire somewhere between -40% TDC and +40% TDC and remove the firing of the waste spark.   Thank you .

You make it sound so simple.  

Fast Freddy is just about finished. He has never had his claims substantiated and failed miserably to even provide any compelling video evidence. He hasn't got a clue what he's doing or indeed what he's talking about. The latest is that he's just going to make a booster. He is a very obvious fraud and con artist!

http://pesn.com/2010/11/30/9501735_Freddys_Version_7_runs_truckon_H2O_in_lab/

As for the closed-loop system on the trolley. Well, there's not enough info to be absolutely certain. However, when it stops working they say that the vibration killed the bulb... isn't that always the way. I think the battery likely ran out of juice.  If legit, I would have expected them to quickly rectify the problem and make another video. They didn't, haven't... why I wonder?

I've been keeping an eye on Fast Freddy since his initial claim of driving 3000 miles on just HHO. He has his own thread here:

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=384.0

[MileHigh]

I don't really follow the "HHO" debate but here are my two cents:

Produce a fairly large quantity of 2H2 + O2 using whatever electrolysis cell you want.  Keep the gas mixture in a container.  Make an accurate measurement of the amount of electrical energy it took to produce that gas.

Note that the electrolysis process will produce heat and that represents lost energy.

Then take your container of 2H2 + O2 gas and used it to power something.  It could be an engine, a fuel cell, I don't care.

Then measure the energy output from your device that used the 2H2 + O2 gas.

If the energy output from the device is more than the electrical energy that you consumed to produce the 2H2 + O2 in the first place then you have over unity.

I have never seen the debate framed in these simple terms and I agree with Farrah about Fast Freddy.  He looks like a pure con artist.

MileHigh

[feynman]

Okay, thanks guys.  I'll do some more research on Fast Freddy and get back to you.