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Author Topic: Faraday's Paradox -- the Homopolar Generator Puzzle  (Read 288 times)
Group: Elite Experimentalist
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Will have a look at the vids :)
Been sat here with this post on the screen for hours now...the first video kept messing up at YouTube's end and, with this 1MB connection it's a slow wait.
Here's where i'm up to, originally written about 10pm.
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At the moment, neither the main HDD platter disc or front disc are physically in contact with the rotor shaft, because of having to match the large difference in diameters.
The motor is being run through a LM317T for speed control.
My converted PC power supply throws out too many amps for the LM317T at the spike 'on' (it shuts down with an over-amperage condition), so 3.7V Li-Ion's are being used.

First results.
There is indeed a charge, with 1 lead to the shaft and 1 lead to the rotating disc. It's in the mV range. Starting at zero, every 50 or so RPM results in 0.1mV. By 1000RPM, there is a constant 2.2mV. Seems like nothing much, until we consider the lack of conventional electrical anything to gain a reading.

Capacitor and diode.
100uF 50V cap. 1N4148 connected to Positive leg.
The motor shaft broke on a spin up C.C
It's largely because of the amount of weight on the front, something that needs to be considered if other folks build something similar.
HOWEVER - there is high strangeness at play here and it may be quirkily advantageous that the shaft did break.
I was shooting a short video and the rotor shaft to extension piece broke clean off. But, not before I thought the meter had something wrong with it. It was flashing numbers which hadn't tallied with the non capacitor running earlier. Up to 0.2V was showing, but negative values.
Replacing it with another meter, I started the video again, thinking there would be nothing odd now.
In fact, it confirms the readings of the first meter :)

http://youtu.be/pdbYwKRTVmM
(YouTube have messed up the video, there are all sorts of lines etc at the bottom, not present on the actual recording)

Thinking this over, I let the test lead stick to the disk face and then simply touched the front disc. Lo and behold a negative reading came up on this second meter of -0.114V.    
So, I left the lead connected and touched the HDD platter larger disk and, again the same reading. Neither disk is electrically connected to the shaft and only 1 of my fingers touches the plates. The motor has no connection of any type now. Fair enough if I had touched both polarities somewhere in the circuit, I might expect something then...but just 1 and no electrical connection to the motor shaft ?
It's not like the meter jumps around or throws spurious different readings - the readings are uniform and constant and always minus numbers.
Also, with the cap having a diode on it, such that Positive only charge can be collected, how does it get to be a negative reading on 2 different meters ?
Here's the second video, which is of much better quality. I show those tests and, at the end, a 'control' of all removed from the magnets area:
Afterward, I swapped the leads, Positive to the heatsink, negative numbers were again seen.

http://youtu.be/q1kngsWeOMk

So, just to recap.
The motor is not physically connected to the output shaft.
There is no power to anything. All there is, is the heatsink, the remaining shaft, the magnets and the 2 discs.
When touching the leads away from the magnets nothing happens.
But, when connecting the negative lead to the shaft side and the positive to the front plate, we get possibly odd happenings when a finger touches the electrically isolated plates.
An environment condition is all I can think of, beside the magnets having an effect...something like body capacitance.
At the moment, it's 'Sliders Paradox'.


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  Mark -- I watched your 2nd vid and it is fun -- Slider's paradox indeed.  Approx -0.11 V, right?

Quote
"An environment condition is all I can think of, beside the magnets having an effect...something like body capacitance.
At the moment, it's 'Sliders Paradox'."

Among other tests that could be done, is it possible to remove the magnets and see if the effect goes away?  that would be most interesting.
   
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Yes, i'll do that right away and update this post.

*update*
Here's the test: http://youtu.be/_bJbdpCb9o4

The result, is that nothing happens, positive or negative. The reading doesn't change and removes the thought of body capacitance interacting with increased metals area.
If fingers touch both contacts then we have the usual 0.5V or so, which I show in the video (that right there is free energy hehe).


« Last Edit: 2012-03-26, 22:21:14 by Slider2732 »


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
So, just to recap.
The motor is not physically connected to the output shaft.
There is no power to anything. All there is, is the heatsink, the remaining shaft, the magnets and the 2 discs.
When touching the leads away from the magnets nothing happens.
But, when connecting the negative lead to the shaft side and the positive to the front plate, we get possibly odd happenings when a finger touches the electrically isolated plates.
An environment condition is all I can think of, beside the magnets having an effect...something like body capacitance.
At the moment, it's 'Sliders Paradox'.

Slider,

Regarding the strange phenomenon of touching the front plate or middle plate and getting a reading on the meter, it may not be that surprising that the middle plate also shows this.

Check the resistance from the front plate to the middle plate. Ceramic (I assume) magnets aren't necessarily infinite resistance across their bodies.

Now why you are seeing a voltage at all by touching this device is odd. Our bodies are a capacitor however, and if you have some noisy lights or appliances in the vicinity, you may be picking this up and coupling it to your device when you touch it. The meter has a very high input impedance, so even though the magnet resistance may be a few hundred k, it could still show a significant reading on the meter. Try loading that voltage down a little, I'll bet it goes away rather readily.

.99


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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Thanks, yes I imagine it would :)
Regarding the body capacitance though, it would have to react with the magnets, because without them, nothing of a change is seen on the meter (as video'd). With the magnets, the factors you describe may well occur.
I'm used to small capacitance changes within Tesla tower, Dr. Stiffler and my own no input voltage circuits, but can say i've never seen such changes and/or negative numbers on a half rectified circuit.


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I've been thinking about Torques and conservation of angular momentum L for the homopolar motor:
if these motors (the whole system including supports) were mounted on a near-frictionless wheel that would spin freely, WHICH WAY would this wheel spin?  if opposite to the rotor, that's fine (at least qualitatively)...  But if not; how can L be conserved?

We can also look at this from the point of view of Newton's third law:  to start spinning / spin faster -- requires a Torque tau; and for every torque there must be an equal torque in the opposite direction/sense of spin.

So we do experiments -- here's a good place to start to find out IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH52QbLxhGs&feature=related  -- nice and simple; should be easy to mount on a vertical-shaft free-spinning axis.

Better in some ways -- how is the top bearing done?  very nice I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJ5O0r-vks&feature=relmfu  

When the brake kicks in, how does the thing spin then on the vertical-shaft free-spinning support wheel?

And still VERY interested in cap-charging experiments also!
   
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  Looking at things again this morning, I think the upper "bearing" is a magnetized sphere, about 1/4" diameter it appears:

Quote
Better in some ways -- how is the top bearing done?  very nice I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJ5O0r-vks&feature=relmfu   

Again; the question of conservation of angular momentum looms large in my mind.  What fun!  If that law is challenged...  lots of possibilities open up!  good thing I'm retired; questioning such physics "contraints" could have gotten me into trouble as a full professor LOL.
   
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I hope I answered your homopolar questions in emails.
Still trying to balance the rotor with the 10.3oz magnets. In fact, the way may be to find a much longer drill shaft and mount things up as I was to do the original motor. But, it would be easier with the drill, because the 'bit' would go in the drill, removing the need for the attaching to a regular motor.
Otherwise i'm still annoyingly making homemade replications of the vibrating massage chairs with how this runs !

Ya know, I don't know that you are retired Steve, more that your new occupation isn't with an employer....free time, free energy research, freedom to think. The contentious opinion that being paid to work, is being paid to conform to the paradigm of the employer.


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[snip] paid to work, is being paid to conform to the paradigm of the employer.

Good point -- plus the employer "owns" your inventions as "his" intellectual property!  In that sense, I'm glad I'm retired!
It is said, the wife gets more husband and less money -- the latter is certainly true.

Anyway, thanks, Mark. 
I came across a very good vid, Michael Faraday on PBS -- and it shows the homopolar motor at the end, the very first motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVDHKKTC4tA

If you want to get fired up, watch this video!


   
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I've decided to open up this discussion on the 'general board', here:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1411.0

Feel free to contribute there, Mark, all!
   
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  I built another little homopolar motor.   The spin of the wire appears to be in the sense that the right-hand-thumb points in the direction OPPOSITE the field lines.  That is, curl the fingers in direction of the spin and right thumb pointing down points towards the north pole on top; or if the thumb points up, the south pole is on top.
« Last Edit: 2012-04-21, 18:35:27 by PhysicsProf »
   
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