Testing QUENCO devices

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PhysicsProf

Testing QUENCO devices « on: 2014-01-13, 12:26:16 »

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E2Matrix got me going on this testing...

So now I'm starting a thread to discuss testing of Quenco devices --

1. the $10 experiment pictured below, discussed here:
http://quentron.com/10-experiment.html
and
2. the "Sebby" device when it is available from Phil Hardcastle.
http://quentron.com/index.html

I would appreciate input and discussion - first on how to set up and run the $10 experiment. E.g., where can I obtain a Philips E180F Pentode?

Testing QUENCO devices

871065.jpg (162.45 kB, 824x1179 - viewed 32 times.)

Chet K

Re: Testing QUENCO devices « Reply #1 on: 2014-01-13, 14:02:25 »

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Steve
A user at OU .Com named Elisha had done these tests at one time and had some positive results.
I believe they were from Venezuela ?
I'll reach out when I get back home [traveling for work now].

Will be interesting to see how they did that ?
I remember having a brief chat last year with Phillip at OU.com regarding this simple test ,it did seem there were issues with the Kiln and
taking proper measurements in such a highly energized [strong fields] environment .[the kiln runs on huge current]

thx
Chet

ion

Re: Testing QUENCO devices « Reply #2 on: 2014-01-13, 14:24:45 »

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It's turtles all the way down

Based on the extremely low output, the experiment must be carefully performed to exclude thermoelectric effects from different lead wire material junctions and thermal electric differences.

You don't need to run kilowatts into the kiln to heat the cathode, just heat the filament with it's rated current and you will get a current flow from cathode to anode.

I did this test some months back and recorded the current flow from cathode to anode in a triode with no applied plate voltage. If anyone is interested, attached is the spreadsheet I ran.

In vacuum tube design, formulations applied to the cathode enhance electron emission and some were radioactive.

Research thermionic generators, there are many designs and patents, the effect is well documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5GVrYcjBKs

Thermionic emission is a good area to do more research.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thermionic Conversion Papers and Research

Recent advances enable thermionic converters to achieve energy conversion efficiencies of up to 30%. Advanced Energy Technology will explore this technology for nuclear space power. High efficiency means that more power can be obtained with a smaller system radiator; this reduces spacecraft mass and increases manueverability, as well as improved packaging. Our converter is inherently survivable against laser and nuclear threats - in fact, it can continue to operate and produce power at elevated heat sink temperatures. Its modular for survivability against pellet threats. This device uses SAVTEC close-spaced thermionic converter technology and barium-cesium thermionic converter technology. High efficiency is achieved by an optimized two-stage configuration. Potential uses of the conversion technology with non-nuclear heat sources are more efficient terrestial commercial power plants and cogeneration of electricity in industry.

============================================================================================================

High efficiency thermionic converter studies
Huffman, F. N.; Sommer, A. H.; Balestra, C. L.; Briere, D. P.; Oettinger, P. E.
Unknown

The objective is to improve thermionic converter performance by means of reduced interelectrode losses, greater emitter capabilities, and lower collector work functions until the converter performance level is suitable for out-of-core space reactors and radioisotope generators. Electrode screening experiments have identified several promising collector materials. Back emission work function measurements of a ZnO collector in a thermionic diode have given values less than 1.3 eV. Diode tests were conducted over the range of temperatures of interest for space power applications. Enhanced mode converter experiments have included triodes operated in both the surface ionization and plasmatron modes. Pulsed triodes were studied as a function of pulse length, pulse potential, inert gas fill pressure, cesium pressure, spacing, emitter temperature and collector temperature. Current amplifications (i.e., mean output current/mean grid current) of several hundred were observed up to output current densities of one amp/sq cm. These data correspond to an equivalent arc drop less than 0.1 eV.

Keywords: EFFICIENCY, THERMIONIC CONVERTERS, ELECTRODES, PLASMA JETS, WORK FUNCTIONS, ZINC OXIDES

Thermionic Converter.xls (17.5 kB - downloaded 4 times.)

« Last Edit: 2014-01-13, 15:04:08 by ION »

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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

PhysicsProf

Re: Testing QUENCO devices « Reply #3 on: 2014-01-14, 08:35:11 »

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Quote from: ION on 2014-01-13, 14:24:45

Based on the extremely low output, the experiment must be carefully performed to exclude thermoelectric effects from different lead wire material junctions and thermal electric differences.

You don't need to run kilowatts into the kiln to heat the cathode, just heat the filament with it's rated current and you will get a current flow from cathode to anode.

I did this test some months back and recorded the current flow from cathode to anode in a triode with no applied plate voltage. If anyone is interested, attached is the spreadsheet I ran.

In vacuum tube design, formulations applied to the cathode enhance electron emission and some were radioactive.

Research thermionic generators, there are many designs and patents, the effect is well documented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5GVrYcjBKs

Thermionic emission is a good area to do more research.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...... Current amplifications (i.e., mean output current/mean grid current) of several hundred were observed up to output current densities of one amp/sq cm. These data correspond to an equivalent arc drop less than 0.1 eV.

Keywords: EFFICIENCY, THERMIONIC CONVERTERS, ELECTRODES, PLASMA JETS, WORK FUNCTIONS, ZINC OXIDES

ION_ glad you've looked into this. Thanks for the data and explanation.
So rather than heating the triode in an oven, you simply heated its internal filament, right? much easier!
What triode did you use?

And there is a small current flow observed... How does this violate the 2nd law as Phil seems to emphasize?

How does he hope to scale this up to usable levels? any insights would be appreciated.

ion

Re: Testing QUENCO devices « Reply #4 on: 2014-01-14, 15:10:50 »

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It's turtles all the way down

Hi Prof

Hardcastle makes the claim that when the tube is immersed in an isothermal environment (oven, kiln etc) where there is no temperature gradient, therefore there should be no preferred direction of electron flow, it should remain random and equally distributed between anode and cathode thereby no emf should be observed.

He goes on to say that an emf is observed, showing a preferred direction, violating the 2nd law by not requiring a thermal difference temperature to be applied.

The problem is in performing the experiment as the very low emf levels obtained at those high temperatures could possibly be explained by thermo-electric effects due to the experiment not being performed carefully enough.

A while back, I became really interested in thermionic generators because as you know, if one could break over the 25 to 30 % efficiency goal, the internal combustion engine would become a relic of past heat engine design.

The video I referenced shows a small lab device running a toy electric motor. This could be scaled to drive an automobile and I believe offers a quiet, synergistic approach to electric vehicle design that would use a combination of fossil fuels, solar etc.

My experiment was different and does not make any 2nd law claims. It demonstrates normal thermionic current flow in a vacuum tube without an accelerating plate voltage. I tried two different tubes, one a power dual triode type 6080, the other a miniature vacuum rectifier type 5642.

---------------------------

"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

PhysicsProf	Re: Testing QUENCO devices « Reply #5 on: 2014-01-15, 15:11:23 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3215	Thanks for this further information, ION. I like your tests. (Pls see the "Kansas" thread... as I'm seeking suggestions for testing another device now on the market...)