Magnetic battery

[Smudge]

Here is another suggestion for getting free energy, my magnetic battery.  Enjoy!

Smudge

[Chet K]

I* have given this a Bump for discussion and experiment

also being discussed here

http://overunity.com/16974/-smudges-musings-a-magnetic-battery-consideration-with-a-simple-experiment/msg495515/#new

A question was asked regarding Size ,[are dimensions specific/critical ?

respectfully
Chet K
PS
I will be sure to keep the "mirror thread " updated with relevant info

[Smudge]

For the purpose of the validation experiment size does not matter, use whatever magnets and sheet material is available.  It is foreseen that a large number of elements will be needed to get to useful voltages, hence this would ultimately be achieved using IC fabrication techniques.  Clearly this would limit the current that can be drawn, but a small chip producing everlasting current could keep phone batteries or PC batteries charged.

Smudge

[PhysicsProf]

  Very intriguing, Smudge. 
A test build is certainly worth a try.
Anything a guy can do to get 100% reproducibility in a novel configuration like this, is well worth the effort (even when the voltage generated is small).

[Slider2732]

This is highly intriguing !
Particularly the thought of a chip, built up of maybe thousands of focusing triangles.

My rough logic came to a conclusion, that a piece of iron and a magnet ought to show a difference across multimeter probes. Something very simple, where it wasn't expected that there would be a reading, after all the 2 probes would be sat on the same piece of metal.
As seen in the pic, 14.3mV....nothing much, but then look at what it is (lol)
It's repeatable, always runs up to 14mv or so. 0mV if the magnet isn't there, it being a regular short.
But, if the leads are secured with ferrous clip leads, it doesn't work. So, that's the caveat.

All this is, is a piece of hard drive neodymium magnet, stuck to the end of an iron Allan key. The 2 non ferrous multimeter probes are then placed at either end. If this is indeed doing something, then positive voltage is at the magnetic end, with the electrons moving to negative at the other end.

[Smudge]

This is highly intriguing !
Particularly the thought of a chip, built up of maybe thousands of focusing triangles.

My rough logic came to a conclusion, that a piece of iron and a magnet ought to show a difference across multimeter probes. Something very simple, where it wasn't expected that there would be a reading, after all the 2 probes would be sat on the same piece of metal.
As seen in the pic, 14.3mV....nothing much, but then look at what it is (lol)
It's repeatable, always runs up to 14mv or so. 0mV if the magnet isn't there, it being a regular short.
But, if the leads are secured with ferrous clip leads, it doesn't work. So, that's the caveat.

All this is, is a piece of hard drive neodymium magnet, stuck to the end of an iron Allan key. The 2 non ferrous multimeter probes are then placed at either end. If this is indeed doing something, then positive voltage is at the magnetic end, with the electrons moving to negative at the other end.

That's interesting.  The polarity is wrong for it to be due to the effect I discuss in my paper, and the voltage is too high.  But it is an effect worth looking into.  Does surface contamination have any part to play, two dissimilar metals can act as a battery if there is electrolyte between them?  Does the size of the magnet have any effect?  Does reversing the magnet have any effect?  Can you measure a short-circuit current?

Smudge

[Grumage]

Hi Mark.

Your Allen key looks to be Zinc plated to me, possible galvanic action going on?

Hi Cyril.

I have lots of 1mm thick sheet Steel in the workshop would that be suitable for the triangles ? And what about the junctions is the Copper playing a part or could I soft solder the point of one onto the wide end of the next ?

Cheers Graham.

[Smudge]

Hi Grum,

Sheet steel ought to work OK.  The connections between the triangles must be nonferrous so I would go for a short length of solid copper wire between each triangle.  I think the length of that wire should be enough to get the magnetic field strength within the steel down to a low level.  If the sharp point is too close to the base of the next triangle the field in that next triangle at the connection point will almost be the same as that at the sharp point of the previous one, and that is not good.  The spacing and triangle aspect need to be something like I show in figure 4 of my magnetic battery paper.

Smudge

[Slider2732]

Yes I was very surprised Smudge.
We all learn to ignore such readings as probes laying on surfaces etc.
But, it does make a huge amount of sense to consider surface contaminants. All I did was went to a kitchen draw, tested the metal for magnetic properties and then went through a few tests. A short remains a short, as in, taking the magnet off the end, but will check reversing the polarity + size of magnet.
It was all more a case of 'looky here, this is weird', rather than being focused on ascertaining just what may or many not be causing it.
If reversing makes no difference then contaminants would be a good answer.
But it's also something that anyone could do. I also now see how it's zinc plated. Fun stuff

[ion]

I built up a 3 cell array using muMetal and copper connecting ribbon.

I used an old school Keithley 155 Microvoltmeter dug out of mothballs and brought up to good operating condition. The most sensitive scale was 1 uV fullscale but this was noisy so I used either 10uV or 30 uV fullscale for the tests.

Cells were put in the center of a solenoid for one test. Both low frequency AC and DC were used to power the solenoid.

I also tested with an external magnet in many positions.

Thus far I have been unable to detect any  output of note that was not swamped by noise or thermolelectric gradients.

On the 30uV fullscale position of the Keithley 155, the null position is quite stable. At around 58 uV predicted per cell, I regret that I was unable to find anything to report.

I will try to improve the test using guarding and shielding as time permits.

I forgot to add that the Keithley is operated from four 9 volt batteries, so no ground loop problems. The hardest part of the cleanup was removing the rubber foam that turned to a sticky goo from the battery compartment before new cells could be put in. The 155 circuit is on an internal chassis which  can float with respect to the outer case by virtue of the guard circuit.

Regards
ION

[Itsu]

Nice tinkering ION, its a pitty no reaction was seen yet.

How did you bond together the muMetal and copper?


Itsu

[Verpies]

How did you bond together the muMetal and copper?

...without a 3rd metal or electron welding?

[Verpies]

Cells were put in the center of a solenoid for one test.

A solenoid does not provide three 1T gradients.
Also, a ceramic magnet will not produce even one 1T gradient.

[ion]

How did you bond together the muMetal and copper?

First i ground off the protective coating with a Dremel only in the tiny spots I wanted to make contact.

Then I soldered with as little overlap and just a very tiny bead of solder. My intention is to spot weld a new batch later, but I'll have to put together a small capacitive discharge spot welder for that.

I realize that introducing another alloy could be a problem if there are localized heating issues, but if the string is held at a fixed temperature, it will not matter. The big problem is the copper / iron junctions.

A solenoid does not provide three 1T gradients.
Also, a ceramic magnet will not produce even one 1T gradient.

I realize that, and this was a quick test done in between other chores, it is just a beginning.

More accurate tests to follow as time permits.

Law of Intermediate Materials

    This was originally known as the Law of Intermediate Metals. The sum of all of the emfs in a thermocouple circuit using two or more different metals is zero if the circuit is at the same temperature.

    This law is interpreted to mean that the addition of different metals to a circuit will not affect the voltage the circuit creates. The added junctions are to be at the same temperature as the junctions in the circuit. For example, a third metal such as copper leads may be added to help take a measurement. This is why thermocouples may be used with digital multimeters or other electrical components. It is also why solder may be used to join metals to form thermocouples.

Law of Successive or Intermediate Temperatures

    A thermocouple made from two different metals produces an emf, E1, when the metals are at different temperatures, T1 and T2, respectively. Suppose one of the metals has a temperature change to T3, but the other remains at T2. Then the emf created when the thermocouple is at temperatures T1 and T3 will be the summation of the first and second, so that Enew = E1 + E2.