movie night question

[Chet K]

at 26.55-27.00 minutes a segment starts on Bee's and a "charge" experiment ,I cannot find anymore info on this ,I am not certain what is being
measured ?[must be static charge ?

would like to investigate .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqpPi8wNed8

also this "shape power technology" Dan Davidson  [about 25:27 mark]

??

all and any comments welcome

respectfully
Chet k

[Centraflow]

I like the video, a lot to think about.

I love this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5pZZJ23rDM

Regards

Mike

[Chet K]

Yes I viewed that one too... Bismuth crystal and its diamagnetic properties
the Crystals are absolutely beautiful.



my real query was the bumble bee in the stainless tub [27 min mark] and the power meter showing Charge [Big charge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqpPi8wNed8

I was looking for more detail on that experiment and could not find it

still looking...


thx
Chet

[TinselKoala]

Yes I viewed that one too... Bismuth crystal and its diamagnetic properties
the Crystals are absolutely beautiful.



my real query was the bumble bee in the stainless tub [27 min mark] and the power meter showing Charge [Big charge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqpPi8wNed8

I was looking for more detail on that experiment and could not find it

still looking...


thx
Chet

Well, I took a look at google. I couldn't find that particular experiment but there is a lot of information concerning electrostatics and bees. Turns out that bees and other insects accumulate a positive charge when flying, and they also are able to sense the electric fields from flowers. The charge helps make pollen get attracted to and stick to the bees, and sets up their body hairs to make it possible to sense the E-field of flowers at a distance.

If you put in "grebennikov" into google you'll get more information than you probably need or want on this old Russian scientist-crackpot.  And there are plenty of pseudoscience YT videos concerning him too. I first heard about him fifteen or more years ago, maybe even while he was still alive. (I even named a computer after him.) There appears to be increased interest lately. But I can assure you: Insects do not fly by anti-gravity, and while they may be little flying electrostatic generators they don't accumulate sufficient charge to do much damage, as it is part of their sensory system (not flight dynamics or control systems.) There are some famous images of Grebennikov's flying platform:


-- and if you believe in that I've got a mint condition art-deco bridge in New York I can let you have for cheap.

Now don't go off and start pulling wings off flying insects, you should have gotten over that at about age 9 

As far as the "Hutchison Effect" goes... the only real Hutchison Effect is the reality distortion field that surrounds him. Every single "effect" he has ever shown is/was faked, and if you ask me about any particular one I can probably tell you exactly how he faked it. It's a real shame that some genuine and honest researchers still believe that _some_ of his _early_ demonstrations were not faked... but I'm not one of them, since I can more or less easily reproduce all of the effects myself, and nobody, not even JH himself now, can reproduce them without fakery.  The encouragement and support from the honest believers have made JH what he is today, a legend. But this has unfortunately done great disservice to our community, by misleading people who should be spending their creative energy elsewhere.

Diamagnetic bismuth is neat. I'd love to have about a kilogram of it to play around with myself. As far as I am aware, nobody yet has actually done the experiment to debunk Ken Wheeler's claim that a bismuth sphere placed stationary next to a magnet will act as a heat source. It's a simple experiment, just put the assembly into a well-insulated container and monitor the inside temperature, with a few extra "control" containers with inert (steel, plastic, etc) systems inside.  (I see this as "low hanging fruit", which may be why nobody has done it that I know of. But I think it's important to refute this and any other false claims of "TA" whenever possible.)

[Grumage]

Are there any " Aviators " amongst our membership?

" Ground Effect "

I had a good friend, a pilot that set up an Airport in mid Wales, now lost through his passion sadly crashing his plane a couple of years ago.

He talked of how difficult it is to land as the plane nears the runway, an invisible force that literally pushes against the aeroplane.

I often wondered if the aeroplane was charged electrostatically, like poles repelling?

Thoughts?

Cheers Graham.

[Chet K]

TK
Thanks for the feedback on the Bee's , very interesting to say the least [fascinating to me]
@ Re  Bismuth
I think TinMan did the Bismuth test and a few others ??

However would be good to see a vid on that claim [not sure about a good caloric investigation of that claim being on the net ?

I would also like to play with the bismuth on the wheel I'm playing with [the teaching aid  for kids ][and me]

@Grum
funny you should write that ...I was thinking that Tinsels comment on positive charge [Bee's flying] and the ground being negative
would suck the little fellows out of the air in attraction [when landing]? or give them huge Zaps when they touch opposite charged things ..

but most likely my silly thoughts are a result of my unfamiliarity with the topic ,

funny thing

I also thought when I read his comment about wee plastic spheres or cages [you motor build] instead of the brass spheres   

buzzin around --- "Grum's BeeDrive electrostatic antigravity motor "   

On Ground effect flight ?? that is a passion of mine and a well known effect which can be a big ?magic carpet" learning curve
for Pilots ...
knowing when your stall speed and ground proximity become a very relevant  piece of knowledge for the pilot.
it is the most efficient form of flight tho, 

sea birds cover vast distances flying seemingly effortlessly just over the waters surface.

yes ground effect is a big learning curve for pilots

Thanks for all comments
getting the Net out to catch some bee's


Chet

[Centraflow]

Diamagnetic graphite is cool also, will float in the air and spin above a magnet

Regards

Mike

[e2matrix]

Are there any " Aviators " amongst our membership?

" Ground Effect "

I had a good friend, a pilot that set up an Airport in mid Wales, now lost through his passion sadly crashing his plane a couple of years ago.

He talked of how difficult it is to land as the plane nears the runway, an invisible force that literally pushes against the aeroplane.

I often wondered if the aeroplane was charged electrostatically, like poles repelling?

Thoughts?

Cheers Graham.

Yep - former hang glider pilot and it's a well known effect among pilots and have experienced it on nearly every landing.   It is simply the wings compressing air against the ground as you come closer to the ground it increases in effect and can carry you a long way.   A normal glide ratio high in the air might be 8 to 1 but very near the ground can easily be 20 to 1 or more.   Your wings are continually compressing the air in front and under you as you move forward along the ground.   

[Grumage]

Yep - former hang glider pilot and it's a well known effect among pilots and have experienced it on nearly every landing.   It is simply the wings compressing air against the ground as you come closer to the ground it increases in effect and can carry you a long way.   A normal glide ratio high in the air might be 8 to 1 but very near the ground can easily be 20 to 1 or more.   Your wings are continually compressing the air in front and under you as you move forward along the ground.

Dear e2matrix.

Many thanks.....   

Pressurised air, simple !!

Cheers Graham.

[TinselKoala]

That's one way of looking at it. Usually ground effect for conventional aircraft involves the wingtip vortices being interfered with by the ground, within about the wingspan distance above the ground and lower.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5XVGV8eM8

[Grumage]

Dear e2matrix.

Many thanks.....   

Pressurised air, simple !!

Cheers Graham.

Many thanks Verpies.   

I found his style refreshing and easy to understand, might be more to this, than meets the eye!

http://milesmathis.com/lift.pdf

Cheers Graham.

[TinselKoala]

Many thanks Verpies.   

I found his style refreshing and easy to understand, might be more to this, than meets the eye!

http://milesmathis.com/lift.pdf

Cheers Graham.

Miles Mathis !! There is so much wrong with his "lift" explanation that it isn't even funny. By the fourth page I was laughing hysterically. I can tell you one thing for sure: Mathis is not a pilot, not an aerodynamicist and probably has never even built and flown a model airplane. He doesn't understand the parts of an airplane or how they are put together or how they fly. He doesn't understand how the horizontal tail lifts _down_ in order to raise the nose of an airplane on takeoff. He doesn't understand how airplane wings are built with a twist (washout) and are mounted at an angle of attack that is specific for the mission of the airplane and which is controlled in flight by the horizontal tail surfaces and/or canards. I could go on and on about Mathis's insane concepts of airplane flight.

The main thing he misses in his "explanation" is that engineers DO know how to design airplanes quite well, using the concepts that he says are wrong. He makes many false assumptions and many clearly wrong assertions, and as he says near the end, he gets many negative comments from pilots. Aeronautical engineers probably ignore him totally, as they should, having better things to do such as _designing aircraft that fly_.  Charge as the cause of lift? Simply wrong. Or maybe he thinks that all those successful aircraft designers are keeping some big secret from the rest of us, only revealed once they graduate from engineering school and start working for the Skunk Works or Scaled Composites or NASA. Sworn to secrecy about how their designs actually work, are they?   

I've read a lot of Mathis's documents, years ago. He's another self-taught "genius" with a huge ego and a whole lot of "wrong" in his mind. Like Ken Wheeler only just a tad bit more polite. These overweening, undereducated geniuses really get my goat. The sad thing is that some people read that stuff and think they are learning something. Believe me, enough of that crap will rot your brain and make it impossible for you to design anything that actually works.


In case you haven't guessed, I am a former pilot and flight instructor, with over a thousand hours in sailplanes and another thousand in powered airplanes mostly taildraggers, and a RC hobbyist with helicopters and fixed-wing flying models. I'd still be flying if not for my health.

[Grumage]

Well, at least you had a laugh !!  Good for body and soul !!

So, " been there, done that "....  Serious question.

How much charge could accumulate on the fuselage of an average size aeroplane ? What would be it's polarity with respect to ground ?

Cheers Graham.

[muDped]

While undergoing SERE training we were advised that
if we were ever in need of "extraction" from hostile
territory by a SAR Rotary Wing Aircraft to always allow
the lift cable to touch ground before grabbing it.

Rotary Wing Aircraft can develop a very powerful electrical
charge which has, unfortunately, injured those who were
not aware.

[TinselKoala]

Yes, I've heard of that too. But all I can say is that in my experience, jumping into and out of all kinds of light fixed-wing aircraft on the ground (and even a couple parachute jumps) I never got a static shock that I can recall.  And many of the sailplanes I've flown have had quite sophisticated and expensive air-data systems installed (specialized computers) that would probably be affected by static charge if it were there in any great quantity. Nor have I ever been shocked by my model helicopters. Of course I don't fly them in dust/sandstorms.....

... and then there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcUHlmT7cIY

[TinselKoala]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_discharger

[Sm0ky2]

I thought that only applied to certain counter-rotational craft and vtol type things
not the normal helicoptors