water injection

[Allcanadian]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/squirts-of-water-can-boost-engine-performance-fuel-economy-by-13

Bosch has been working on a water injection system for engines called WaterBoost that can reduce CO2 emissions by 4 percent, boost engine performance by 5 percent, and improve fuel economy by 13 percent.

https://greengarageblog.org/15-water-methanol-injection-pros-and-cons

AC

[Paul-R]

Don't forget what we discussed in another thread, namely the work done in the war by aero engine manufacturers boosting the P-47 and others. I think the Greengarage people [above] are underplaying the effect. There will be a large amouint of data to draw on which should be declassified. But over use could blow their engines quite quickly. I think Ford did work on this after the war.

[Jerry Volland]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/squirts-of-water-can-boost-engine-performance-fuel-economy-by-13

https://greengarageblog.org/15-water-methanol-injection-pros-and-cons

AC

I built a Hilsh Rankine vortex tube for my exhaust pipe. It has one input with two outputs.  If you blow through it, one side gets hot and the other gets cold.  Hot CO2 moves the fastest so it swirls around in the middle region, and into the tube sucking it back to the carbeurator.  The emissions reading dropped to .02%.  Hot water vapor also comes out of the hot side, but way too much.

[Jerry Volland]

The Injector electrode has to be insulated from the water, until the spark gap.  Otherwise, it'll short out through the water, scattering it.  Instead of energizing the water prior to it's upcoming ignition.  Even when the water is zipping along.

[Allcanadian]

Paul

Don't forget what we discussed in another thread,

I thought it deserved it's own thread with the price of fuel going through the roof.

I did countless hours of research and builds on this stuff over 40 years ago as a teenager. It's not rocket science but I found most people today still don't get it.

Water injection is not to produce more horsepower, any fool can do that. It's meant to moderate the combustion and cylinder temperature so we can lean out the fuel/air mixture. Normally we cannot lean out the mixture without pre-detonation or ping and overheating. By leaning out the fuel/air ratio we can generate the same power using less fuel.

You see the amateurs designing most engines add extra fuel to try to keep the cylinder temps down and keep the catalytic converter hot. This obviously wastes a great deal of fuel which doesn't need to be the case. Water injection solves these problems and we can remove most of the crap these incompetent engineers have added.

Here's another fallacy most have bought into. The turbocharger wasn't initially designed to increase horsepower, any fool can do that. It was designed to scavenger the heat energy from the exhaust and transfer it back to the engine. The waste heat drove the turbo, the turbo increased the intake pressure, the increased pressure applied more force to the downward moving piston and also increased the compression ratio on the upstroke. It was designed for better mileage not more horsepower.

Think of it this way, the turbocharger is a gas turbine which was designed to use the engine like a combustor. The engine produces heat and we can use the turbo/gas turbine to extract heat energy and add it too the engine. We could use a gas turbine/generator and an electric motor which some did. However it's easier to use the turbo air pressure to boost the intake pressure to decrease fuel consumption. As well, by using a turbo and water injection we get the best of both worlds.

So any fool can increase power just add more fuel/air and bump the compression. I could teach a six year old school girl how to do it no problem. The problem is that nobody seems to have a clue how to increase mileage without sacrificing power and reliability.

Regards
AC

[Jerry Volland]

I put a little water in the bottom of my Injector plate, around the thumb tack.  Then I set it on top of a magnetron and fired it.
With 500 Joules, 7.5 kV, 16 MFd, it made a red fireball bigger than a baseball.  Water can be used as more than a combustion moderator.

However, Stan was also injecting hho.  So it's likely that at least some of the injected water was not intended as fuel.

[Chet K]

Water mixed Japan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8PbdymGFk8

[Allcanadian]

This is where turbocharging is going...
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/e-turbo-electric-assist-turbocharger/

However they still haven't got it right yet.

The best concept for high mileage would be a hybrid vehicle with a split gas turbine/compressor system. That is a stand alone gas turbine generator on the exhaust charging the hybrid battery. Then another stand alone electric compressor to modulate intake pressure. In this way both the gas turbine and compressor can always run at optimal efficiency.

Even Nikola Tesla saw the merit of this kind of split system 100 years ago. Tesla predicted the best system would split the prime mover from the driver like diesel/electric locomotives do. Now all we would have to do is add a battery to the system we have the present hybrid systems. So it's kind of a joke that 100 years later the automotive engineers still haven't got a clue what there doing.

I suspect the engineers are either incompetent or the manufacturers are in bed with the fossil fuel industry. In my opinion this kind of gross incompetence doesn't just happen naturally. They have done almost nothing to drastically improve mileage in the last 50 years. I mean, a new truck gets marginally better mileage than one 30 years ago, it's a joke.

Regards
AC

[Paul-R]

Water injection is not to produce more horsepower, any fool can do that. It's meant to moderate the combustion and cylinder temperature so we can lean out the fuel/air mixture. Normally we cannot lean out the mixture without pre-detonation or ping and overheating. By leaning out the fuel/air ratio we can generate the same power using less fuel.

Very interestihng but the account I heard was that, by injecting water, the cylinder acted as a steam engine as well as acting as a gas engine, thereby producing more power. Two functions simultaneously in the same cylinder at the same time. Certainly, they did get more power which gave pilots one up on the Me109 if they didn't blow the engine.

[Jerry Volland]

If you're going to start injecting water, you'd better check the quality of the head gasket.  Any water slamming under the edge of the gasket will eventually erode the top of an Alumniun engine block, defeating the seal.

[Allcanadian]

Paul

Very interestihng but the account I heard was that, by injecting water, the cylinder acted as a steam engine as well as acting as a gas engine, thereby producing more power. Two functions simultaneously in the same cylinder at the same time. Certainly, they did get more power which gave pilots one up on the Me109 if they didn't blow the engine.

It depends on our perspective and goals.

All my research in most fields tends towards greater efficiency not so much power. I always look for the best way of doing something in the most efficient way then consider power after the fact. So my goals were always very different from most other people.

Efficiency is how much energy we get out relative to how much energy we put in and power is the rate at which this occurs. So in the right context there is no valid reason why we cannot do both at the same time. We just do something really efficient... faster, lol.

Regards
AC

[Allcanadian]

I also built and tested bubbler/vapor carburetors and the GEET which work well.

The GEET is misleading because the white cloth over the exhaust trick works equally well with just a well built bubbler. It's the water vapor/steam which any soot adheres to which cleans the cylinder and exhaust.

Most engines use a catalytic converter or DEF catalyst system on diesels to trap and burn off any soot. However heating the catalyst requires heat energy and extra fuel to drive the process. Think about that, there consistently burning more fuel to reduce pollution?, lol.

In fact, part of the supposed GEET magic relates to Viktor Schaubergers work which I replicated. The water/fuel droplets are introduced and charged electrostatically to high voltage. The charged particles repel because they have like charges. This prevents the droplet/vapor from condensing and it always remains completely atomized. This obviously increases the combustion efficiency and it always burns clean increasing power and mileage.

So it was never magic or a scam it was basic science found in every grade school textbook.

Regards
AC