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Author Topic: Transformer Delayed Lenz Effect - shock and awe  (Read 30410 times)
Group: Guest
There is a very nice new poster on YouTube called "Overunityguide."  He really seems to be a newbie and he seems nice.  I hope that if any of you more knowledgeable users interact with him you help him get up the learning curve.

He made a clip that attempted to demonstrate an alleged "Thane C Heins Regenerative Acceleration Generator effect" with a transformer only.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbmharDOA3Y&feature=uploademail[/youtube]

His description:

Quote
In this video you can see that it is even possible to use the Thane C Heins Regenerative Acceleration Generator effect without any moving parts, so in this case in a transformer.

What is important in this setup is that this transformer isn't like a normal transformer, no in this setup it is a transformer with a low impedance / high current primary coil and with a very high impedance secondary coil. What is interesting to see is that this transformer will react totally different on 200 Hz as compared to 950 Hz.

In the first part of this video you can see that when this transformer is being driven at 200 Hz, that normal transformer action is taking place (input power goes up when connecting the load to the secondary coil)

And in the second part of this video you can see that when this transformer (with its very high impedance secondary coil) is being driven at 950 Hz, that the input power to the primary will drop when we connect the load to the secondary. So we can conclude that the same Regenerative Acceleration Generator Effect can also be employed into a special transformer which consists of a low impedance primary coil and a very high impedance secondary coil. (driven at higher frequencies...)

p.s. Please remember that this video is only showing: 'proof of principle' so there can be a-lot improved. Of course everyone can imagine how multiple secondary's can be used to further enhance this effect. I can think of one primary being placed in the center of two laminated stars, with let's say eight secondary's being placed around it.

If you want to know more about this technology, Please go to Thane C Heins it's YouTube Page which can be found at:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins

That's a sign of a nice guy right there, making such an effort for his YouTube clip description.

My issue is the following:  Thane Heins thought this clip was great and vindicated him.  Plengo posted on the other two forums in the Romero threads stating that this clip was "very important."

I took issue with this and as part of my fading away, I decided to make some tough comments on this clip.  It's very important to state that my tough comments were not directed at Overunityguide, he is a newbie.

Here is the play by play:

Thane's comment on the clip:

Quote
Dear Overunityguide,

Really nice job and way more simple than I would have expected!

I have to tell you that since being throw out of Ottawa University after 2.5 years of doing our research there and being misrepresented in the media over the past several years - watching your videos is like being released from prison because new evidence has proven innocence.

Thanks again for helping get me out of prison!

Cheers

T

My response:

>>>>>>>>
@ThaneCHeins You have got to be kidding. For starters the load looks like a European LED bulb. That means that it has some electronics in it to convert 220 VAC @ 50 Hz to some kind of output to drive the LEDs. That means the LED light bulb which was designed for European mains power is being fed two flavours of non-standard AC power. This is a non-linear active load and nobody knows how it will react to the two different AC excitations that it wasn't designed for.

Then the only "evidence" you have for what is going on is a Kill-a-Watt meter that's measuring the power consumption of the waveform generator itself. You have no voltage or current waveforms and instantaneous power measurements for the input primary of the transformer or for the output secondary of the transformer. You have absolutely no data to draw any kind of meaningful conclusions about the power coupling properties of the transformer itself. You can't conclude ANYTHING.

The only preliminary conclusion you might be able to draw is that it appears when you are trying to fry the LED light bulb with 950 Hz at 120 volts AC into a STEP UP transformer and then feeding the secondary output into an active device designed to accept 220 volts AV at 50 Hz something funny happens and the load from the perspective of the frequency generator gets reactive and some power is kicked back into it. This is a disaster that you can't make any meaningful measurements on.

I can feel that Overunityguide is a beginner and he needs to be given a big break. But you Thane have been "playing" with the stuff for years now. I can't believe it!

Same thing for you too Plengo. How you can possibly believe that this clip is "extremely important" is beyond me. You are trying to fry an LED light bulb with what probably looks like an ugly square wave because of the high voltage AC going into a step-up transformer going into an LED light bulb. It's unbelievable!!!!

With all the flaws mentioned, I am going to repeat the most important flaw: You have NO DATA at all about the operation of the transformer. All that you have is a Kill-a-Watt power measurement on the power supply that is powering the experiment. That tells you nearly NOTHING about the transformer itself.

I can tell all three of you that the transformer is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing under these strange conditions. It's all 100% conventional - No Heins effect at all!
>>>>>>>>

I'm frustrated.  There is such a disconnect for me that it's time I drop down to a single innocuous post per week.  I am shocked that a good-intentioned posting by a total newbie is gobbled up by people that have been around for years as being 100% legit when there is no real data in the clip to back up the proposition.  I'm baffled and it's time to almost disappear for me.

I apologize if I have offended anybody but I view this example not as a step forward, but more like 10 steps back.  I tried very earnestly to move things forward but I give up.

MileHigh
   

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I am not fully in agreement with you here MH

The Kilo Watt meter is very likely accurately showing power consumed for each stage of the experiments he is carrying out.If there was any sign of free energy then i would agree to move to doing tests on the primary and secondary power consumptions.

The whole point is that he is not showing any excess energy at all, with the primary open circuit he has deduced the idle power consumed by the generator, with the bulb it uses more power (To be Expected) and at the higher frequency with the load connected it draws less power with the load applied than it does open circuit but the problem is that it still draws more power with the load than it did with the primary open and is therefore under unity, I cannot see any trickery it's clearly under unity.

So in this case why would he even spend months trying to work out pf, phase and power consumption of the primary and secondary when he already knows it's under unity that would be a total waste of time.

DeepCut already showed experimentally you don't get more with a shorted high impedance secondary.

   
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I'm with you MH and Peterae

I could add to this but don't want to waste my or anyones time.

I put Thane in the ranks of misguided experimenter that likes the spotlight.

Overunityguide is well meaning but has made serious errors in scientific method, and has misinterpreted his test data.

Stick around MH, I appreciate your input, but it pains me to see you getting upset chasing some of this stuff.

Let's put our good minds together to discover something new!!


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Group: Guest
...
The only preliminary conclusion you might be able to draw is that it appears when you are trying to fry the LED light bulb with 950 Hz at 120 volts AC into a STEP UP transformer and then feeding the secondary output into an active device designed to accept 220 volts AV at 50 Hz something funny happens and the load from the perspective of the frequency generator gets reactive and some power is kicked back into it. This is a disaster that you can't make any meaningful measurements on.
...

I agree with that. The experiment is not conclusive.

We can guess that there is a resonance appearing near 950 hz when the load is connected. The connection of the load modifies the impedance that is viewed from the primary. It creates an efficient resonant coupling that redirects to the load, the power previously wasted in losses in the core and in the wire resistance, while reducing the total power that has to be provided.
Even if the load was purely resistive, we could have also this effect, because we have not a real transformer with a high coupling coefficient but 2 coils poorly coupled (magnetic circuit not closed).


   
Group: Guest
My main concern about reduce power when loading is due to core loss.  If we can achieve this effect with air core, then this possibility is eliminated.  Has anyone seen it happens to air core?  Farmhand, could you get a reduce power on air core? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs&list=UUPClSuqPMToQP0BfXV_-x5A&index=4&feature=plcp
   
Group: Guest
Yep sure did. I used a pair of bottom connected Tesla transformers one for the power station (AC power generator) and one for the output transformer.  ;D

I came to the conclusion that what is happening is the system uses more input to maintain resonance and high output voltage
than it does to run a small load and when the load is added energy is consumed but the system can be put closer to resonance or
put out of tune by the load depending on it's nature as in the cored transformer demo a capacitive load made better resonance and a resistive load destroyed it.

The more inefficient the setup is made to be, the more pronounced the effect is seen to be.

Watch closely, don't draw the wrong conclusions. I think I've busted Thanes claims pretty good for a layman.
Try to ignore the attempt to measure stuff and forgive my inexperience, i have learned a lot since then, I think  :-[

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYc6nN8MWAM

THis video shows the reduction in load on the actual battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRzQ_CO9vnw

And here is the cored transformer test. I like the part where flicking the switch changes the tiny output from the bulb to the fluro.  ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxde9qga79c

Cheers

P.S. there is no free energy, the best that can happen as far as reduced input is concerned is zero input which will result in zero output, without doubt.
An easier way to achieve that would be to switch the power to the input off, it would produce the same effect. My opinion is that Thane is a scammer,
he might have done some interesting experiments but I don't see any actual proof of any OU from him.

I apologize if my opinion offends some people but, some peoples opinions offend me too, it is just my opinion.

The point I'm trying to make is that all of these things are normal, but they can be used as tricks to fool people for an agenda, be it ego, money, discredit the movement or to waste people time.
Sometime it is a genuine misunderstanding or mistake, that should be remembered, the telling factors are the context the effect is shown in and by whom.

Oh yeah, I don't think core losses are necessary, losses from a low Q in a HF system will do a similar thing.

And the really funny thing is, air cored transformers can work the other way as well. EDIT: corrected posted video link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEX9MKBhVZk It's all in the tuning.

..
« Last Edit: 2012-11-26, 07:25:20 by Farmhand »
   
Group: Guest
My main concern about reduce power when loading is due to core loss.  If we can achieve this effect with air core, then this possibility is eliminated.  Has anyone seen it happens to air core?  Farmhand, could you get a reduce power on air core? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs&list=UUPClSuqPMToQP0BfXV_-x5A&index=4&feature=plcp

If the frequency is adjusted near the natural resonant frequency of the primary coil, then a secondary placed near the primary can drastically change the resonance conditions, increasing or decreasing the current in the primary. It's due to the resonant frequency of the secondary changing the resonance of the primary thanks to the coefficient of mutual induction, and also because of the capacitive effect of the two near coils.
While the resonant frequencies of the coils and the working frequency are not given, this experiment will remain totally inconclusive. If all frequencies are given and are near from each other, the experiment shows nothing else than conventional electromagnetism.

   
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Resonance condition can be change by changing inductance or capacitance.  Loading a coil could change inductance and increase frequency, but how could frequency lowered by loading.  I suppose current draw depends on frequency. 

   
Group: Guest
...
Loading a coil could change inductance and increase frequency
...

Never if the load is a real load, i.e. purely resistive.

   
Group: Guest
My experiments tell me Ex. is correct I guess there is purely resistive loads, then there is mixtures of resistive, inductive and capacitive. I think a fluorescent tube (no ballast) has significant capacity and can add to the resonant condition if the secondary is operating at below it's resonant frequency ie. if the secondary is resonant at 24.5 kHz and the system was operating at only 23 kHz, if a fluro tube was added it would lower the resonant frequency to closer to the working frequency and therefore possibly increase the secondary voltage and input power, resistive losses will still occur because of the conduction. Although if a resistive load was added it would present nothing more than a "level" of short circuit so to speak or a level of open circuit depending on the resistance relative to the applied voltage. And so a purely resistive load could only increase the resonant frequency by lowering the inductance.  An inductive load could add to the resonant condition if the loaded inductance along with the secondary inductance allow it
ie. if added together the secondary/load  L/C/R causes the secondary resonant frequency to get closer to the working frequency.

That's how I see it so far in simple terms.
   
Group: Guest
Well, there are only 2 ways to lower frequency, 1 way to lower consumption:

1/ inductance increase
2/ capacitance increase

First, we already establish inductance either decrease or remains the same.  I can't see how we can increase capacitance when loading, transformer style.  I tried it on simulation.  There is no way you can lower frequency when loading. 

The only thing left that could lower consumption is phase shift.  That would means an increase in frequency(decrease in inductance) but decrease in consumption.  How could this be? 




   
Group: Guest

... the secondary/load  L/C/R causes the secondary resonant frequency to get closer to the working frequency.

That's how I see it so far in simple terms.

Farmhand,

I think you're correct.  The input frequency is higher than resonance frequency.  When load, inductance goes down and resonance frequency gets closer to the input frequency.   O0

   
Group: Guest
@gh

You should precise "when capacitively loaded", as suggested by Farmhand ("I think a fluorescent tube (no ballast) has significant capacity"), otherwise the affirmation is false. And also in this case, it's not the circuit inductance increase that leads to the frequency decrease but the capacitance increase.

   
Group: Guest
@gh

You should precise "when capacitively loaded", as suggested by Farmhand ("I think a fluorescent tube (no ballast) has significant capacity"), otherwise the affirmation is false. And also in this case, it's not the circuit inductance increase that leads to the frequency decrease but the capacitance increase.



Thanks Exn,

  ...I can't see how we can increase capacitance when loading, transformer style. 



   
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