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Author Topic: Ratio of Frequency to Diameter of the TPUs...  (Read 6443 times)
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Hey guys, looking through some of my old stuff, I found a bunch of images and calculations that I had done in detail that no one ever got to see. So, I figured, why not put them online for others to see.

Here is a workup I did on the ratio off the frequency to diameter for the TPUs. I not only take what SM said, and compare it to the videos that we had, but I also relate it to some spectrograms that I produced for the small TPU that was on the glass table. My 'calculated' frequency, based on the ratio of frequency to diameter that I had come up with, EXACTLY matches the center frequency for that small TPU as you can see in the spectrogram.

Needless to say, I thought someone might be interested in seeing this...







Below is the spectrogram of the small 4 inch TPU that was put on the glass table in one of SM's videos.

   

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Hi tao
Nice 1, so that would mean the 17" would be operating at about 14kHz
   
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If we ponder the vibrational modes that create the impact noise by hitting the glass, I would say it's not deformation of the toroid, but rather the "washboard" effect at work.  The washboard effect is the vibration of the whole device due to it's interaction with the magnetic fields.
« Last Edit: 2011-12-04, 04:09:00 by EMdevices »
   
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Here is an interesting calc that came into my head lol...

Remember his comments about his 'speaker design' relating to a 15" TPU having a troublesome resonance at 35k and that his output transformer was capable of going up to 245khz?

Well, he said it was 15" from flange to flange, so that either means literally from the flange to flange with the TPU in it, or the circumference of the collector. The 'iinteresting calc' I did only relates to if you coonsider his comments are actual, meaning, the collector's diameter would be roughly 14" and not 15", as 15" would be the outer confines of the TPU itself.

Now for the calc...

If you recall in the energycoils video, he mentions to the gentlemen that when he is doing that flame discharge,  that when he 'dialed down the power' of that TPU there, that it was 'an 8 cylinder engine running on one cylinder'...

Now, watch the calc...

Using my ratio from my first post, 14" would equate to 14"/0.0012 = 11666.67 Hz.

Now, taking that as the primary frequency, and 35khz and 245khz as two of the harmonics, ponder that for a second...

Well, you end up with

fundamental frequency: 11.67 Khz
2nd Harmonic: 35 Khz
5th Harmonic: 70 Khz
8th Harmonic: 105 Khz
11th Harmonic: 140 Khz
14th Harmonic: 175 Khz
17th Harmonic: 210 Khz
20th Harmonic: 245 Khz

Now, doesn't that FIT 100%?

AND LOOK, there are 8 frequencies there, HMMM, like 'an 8 cylinder engine' no doubt?!?

AND LOOK how they are evenly spaced, each frequency being every third harmonic.

AND LOOK at the two harmonics he gave in his 15" speaker example, the FIRST (35 Khz) of the seven harmonics, and the LAST (245 Khz) of the seven harmonics!

AND the fundamental matches my roughly calced ratio!

:)
« Last Edit: 2011-12-03, 17:53:22 by tao »
   
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Nice Tao,

You have kept the math to minimum

So we need 3 fundamentals (0scillators) which support harmonics relating to the circumference creating intermod distortion effect  from within the device.

Now, a meal for everbody and a  chance for me to vent a little

I doubt that fixed frequencies are used, rather resonant circuits phase coupled to each other ..but not too tight.(remember the importance of tubes at this point)
ss vco's are slow as mollasses we want to be able self adjust phase very quickly . Other wise acceleration will  not take place remember the revup /turbine effect?

 

He always said that the catalyst frequencies are much higher than  the sound it made which was the result of conversion, wich I percieve to be the beat frequency from the interaction of the catalyst frequencies (not quite on full conversion)with the surrounding environment.

It looks like the catalyst numbers would be as high as possible and as far from each other as possible and their isolation (except for in the ring ) important.

Here i go again ...high speed ( phase response) broard band amplifiers are required for experiment.

Otto had physical mechanical vibration with 245 khz (pulse) drive on his last attempt.


Have a stab at these numbers if we are on the same page, and i will give them a go with individual vhf triodes.
I have 15" outside of my speaker

I have always been able to see this in my head .. however the bench is a different challenge

I always expected  that SMs advice would be heeded in regard to how to experiment and I am profoundly dissapointed in our expectation that his advice would be followed rather than expanded on by smartarses with ss "education"
which was always his Main point ...and still is!  and I failed !

I dont see it likey that anyone these days will do much but read ..then forget because they dont or WONT see how electron devices differ from ss devices.

It is clearly apparent that he gave all he was ethically able/willing  to disclose and feels that it was pissed away ...yes I know it was bits of the jigsaw but the good bits.


He is not and was never going to tell how the coil interaction/geometry will take the place of the tubes  , which should  become more obvious once..if ..ever  the "conversion" is achieved .

It is  difficult and It was my ecpectation that his specifics would be used by people to experiment with something so earth shatteringly important as this



I hope we can do another round . If we do it the advised way  there may be more assistance from the advisor who has stated that it should not be necessary.



rant end .Expectation zero Optomisim one.

Good on you Tao !

now, those numbers?






















« Last Edit: 2011-12-04, 01:10:09 by gridbias »
   
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Gridbias:

Thanks for your input.  I have no problem with the use of tubes except that of  impedance matching to the rather low impedance of the coils.

At the frequencies we are talking, the inductance is  low and hard to get a good match until you get into the MHz range.

VHF tubes such as 6BQ7 can be operated at lower frequencies, but are very low power dual triodes at around 2 watts max dissipation per section.

Any ideas to resolve this?
« Last Edit: 2011-12-04, 05:12:31 by ION »


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Nice work there tao,  the frequencies are certainly key to any heterodyne radio principle, which was certainly described to us by the "adviser"    :P

Bruce has been perusing this angle for some time over at OU.com, anybody follow his progress?

Here's my spectrogram of the buzzing tpu,  notice the spacing between the buzzing frequencies,  much wider space than the 60 Hz stuff at the bottom.  ???


   
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Gridbias:

Thanks for your input.  I have no problem with the use of tubes except that of  impedance matching to the rather low impedance of the coils.

At the frequencies we are talking, the inductance is  low and hard to get a good match until you get into the MHz range.

VHF tubes such as 6BQ7 can be operated at lower frequencies, but are very low power dual triodes at around 2 watts max dissipation per section.

Any ideas to resolve this?
Just adding c will give that. I'm sorry to have to say.
I do not know if 2 watts is enough .
I cant see where you got the idea that high power is required
The coils were started one at a time . Which makes me think that it was important to do that.
We are after all putting one frequency on top of another in a reinforcing manner .

3 individually tuned resonant coils with the right numbers from tao .

Remeber in the video when he claps his hands.....the frequencies slap together ... at which point the coil will aparently jump! then you will know you have motive force that can increase  the current in the collector which is in the centre of the interaction and becomes part of it .

It cant be easy , be prepared to waste heaps of time and get nowhere. Knowing that the inventor clearly said it was the only worthy path to experiment with at first.

There has never been a colaborative effort in this direction has there?

Sm was right about everybody changing things to suit themselves but i did not agree with him at the time ..smart guy

Perhaps it is just not tpu time yet


   
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Gridbias said:

Quote
I cant see where you got the idea that high power is required

Actually, I believe quite the opposite. For a system that is truly regenerative i.e. "feeds itself" only a miniscule amount of power is needed. Actually thermal noise or other ambient noise might be sufficient.

By "truly regenerative" I mean a system that somehow recirculates energy, mixing and adding a bit more each time around the loop from some ambient source, not from an external power supply.

It could very well be that the frequencies build out of the noise in a properly constructed TPU, and the active circuitry is really only for "control" or "regulation" purposes.

I believe it is all in the knowledge of the coils and how they interact, as SM clearly stated.

You've been at this a long time and I'm sure, like myself have experimented with coils and all manner of frequencies from very clean sine wave oscillators and tubes.

On another note, just adding capacitance to a resonant tank to lower frequency is not ideal as best resonance is when xL=xC, if it is highest "Q" you are looking for.

Thus far the Kapanadze device looks very close to the TPU, but uses cruder spark gap excitation and tuned filters to derive the frequencies. His device is built in a short solenoid coil  rather than a toroid, which is just a folded solenoid.

Could you elaborate on your findings?
« Last Edit: 2011-12-04, 15:45:18 by ION »


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Let me show you how the "frequencies combine and begin to feed themselves" creating more power in the process, or rather receiving more power.


I did this derivation elsewhere, but here it will have a new twist because now this will not be DC excitation.    The setup is a basic loop for receiving an external magnetic field, however there is a local oscillator that oscillates in phase with the external magnetic field.

The instantaneous power delivered to a resistor 'R' depends on the voltage squared, as follows:

P =1/R [ V^2 = (v1 + v2)^2 ]

If we let v1=V1 sin(wt),  and v2 = V2 sin(wt),  both of the same frequency, where v1 is perhaps the voltage induced in the loop from the external fields, and v2 a locally generated in phase signal, we obtain the following:

P = 1/R [ ( V1 sin(wt) + V2 sin(wt) )^2 = V1^2 sin(wt)^2 + V2^2 sin(wt)^2 + 2 V1 V2 sin(wt)^2]

These three instantaneous power terms, when integrated over one period, give us the AVERAGE power delivered to the load   (BTW,  this is how we go from INSTANTANEOUS to AVERAGE)  So, after integrating over one period, we obtain:

P_avg = 1/R [ (0.5 V1^2)  +  (0.5 V2^2)  +  (V1 V2) ]

Because the local signal is IN PHASE with the external signal, notice that now the 3rd power term no longer averages to zero as was the case with DC excitation.  This is a very powerfull result.  It shows that EXTRA POWER appears from the interaction of two signals.    Notice that this 3rd power term can be a lot larger then what can be received with the loop alone, if V1 < 1.   Assume we are receiving a week signal where V1=1 mV,  and our driving signal V2 = 1.     Then, the first power term would be equal to 0.5 micro watts,  but the third power term would be 1 mW,  which is 2000 times larger!     So this is the beauty of regeneration, but in this case we are not using the signal itself and feeding it back in phase, but instead we have an oscillator running in phase.    The trick is staying IN PHASE!     This is not a simple problem because the external field is swamped out by the local oscillation, if our local oscillator amplitude is orders of magnitude larger, which normally it is when dealing with weak received signals.  

EM

PS,  If we don't want a local oscillator, then we have to feed some of the power received back, and we need tuned circuits to start the process, however, it's very hard to tune to low frequencies, and that's where this whole heterodyne principle comes in, or mixing frequencies.  I believe SM did it both ways, because he said some of the TPUs had batteries in them, while others did not.  So what TPU will you build,  and more importantly what magnetic frequency will you tune into?
   
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