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Author Topic: Help Building a special transformer ?  (Read 66241 times)
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well
Glad thats out of the way!!



I'm gleaning other facts from the thread at present.
Also acquiring the necessary pieces for this replication.


It is my intent to stick very close to this outline from AllCanadian

Quote:
Now if a person wanted to get creative we could also use an Arduino usb microcontroller to simultaneously sweep one frequency range or multiple frequencies while monitoring a hall effect sensor which senses vibrations of the cans which are partially saturated by a permanent magnetic field. In which case we would simply program the microcontroller to automatically sweep through a massive number of frequency combinations and log the frequency(s) and the output from the hall effect sensor and possibly a temperature sensor in the serial monitor for number crunching in a spread sheet.

« Last Edit: 2012-01-23, 12:23:59 by ramset »
   

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Quote from: exnihiloest
...

The "truth" never comes from premature annou[n]cements with unfunded assertions, very question[n]able measurement methods, and hypothetic[al] facts not verified by third party.

Absolutely correct.

Which is why teamwork is necessary.

All claims must be verified (or disproved)
by as many capable "volunteers" as possible.

Even the "establishment" claims must be
validated.


---------------------------
"The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see." - Alexandra k. Trenfor.
   
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Chet:

From my perspective the 90 degrees Celsius business is just more hearsay.  That graph remains just as nonsensical as it was before.  It seems there is always some "new information" as things start to get stale.  It also complicates the measurements quite a bit when you think about it.

With respect to the heap pump guy, I can't prejudge but I will tell you my thoughts:  There is no reason to believe that a guy that knows heat pumps is going to be an expert on resistive heating.  Likewise, I can't envision a commercial heat pump guy worrying about precise measuring methods with (presumably) smaller amounts of hot water.

I think that you slipped on your third or fourth promise for a movie.  I assume that you are acting in good faith, and the real person doing the slipping is the heat pump guy.

I think June 30th is a reasonable proof or failure date, so no rush on the supposed movies.

Please don't spend a lot of your money on this.

MileHigh
   
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MH
Money is no problem....
I have none!!

Time is something I hope to have at night for the foreseeable future .
I'm going to set up in one of the old furnace rooms at the facility, I'll be here away from home weeks at a time .
I'm actually looking forward to this ... I didn't realize how tuff it would be here,young people passing from this world wrapped in fear, the ones left behind trying to straighten out their lives!!
Mothers and fathers finding themselves powerless to help their kids....I just get a little numb sometimes ,confused??[I pray a lot]

I need something like this to help distract me, plus some of the kids here are into it,and that makes me happy!

MH I know how you feel about this .....
Thanks
Chet
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
@Chet,
Enjoy yourself in whatever you do. Just be safe in all manner.


---------------------------
   
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...
Rosemary is making demands that we pay her the OU Award/Prize. Not only that, but she continues to spread lies about me and the analysis that I have performed. Am I to stand by and allow that to happen, and also not make it clear what the conditions are to apply for the Award? I'd rather be playing my guitar to be honest, but the BS she propagates is unacceptable, at least to me. What would you do if I was posting demands to you and sending you emails asking for money of which I do not deserve?
...

I also faced this kind of sick persons. They are outside of reason and not of good will. The only way that I found is to ignore their private messages, and on the forums to absolutely avoid long and healthy replies which are then used by them as new sources for falsifications and sophisms. I treat them by contempt, by replying only from time to time and with very short comments ("this is false", "lie", "calumny", "your are wrong, I have already explained why", "prove it"...). From my little experience, I retained it is important for the health not to worry, not to go into their game, and to stay above; to play guitar is surely a good way. Life is short, it would be a pity to waste precious hours with her.  ;)


   
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MH
You seem to be able to cut me some slack on things [scheduling] ?

I'm having a good morning as far as this project is concerned ,I believe this will be a very good week .

I have given one of the inventors this address....
THX
Chet
   
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Yea, there should be rules for no spanking, unless the spankee is found utterly guilty of some real offense.   ;) And the spanker should have to prove, in full, that the spankee needs spanked, before the spanking begins.  O0

And, it is a shame that there has to be an uncomfortable territory. But if we were only to post rock solid info, then these forums would be gone long ago. No?   ;)

Mags

Ok boys, I apologise for my, let's say, 'bluntness'. I put it down simply to frustration... and the time of the month! I'll try to rein in my knee-jerk reactions to folk who post meaningless clap-trap. Afterall, you'd miss me if I was gone! ;)

It really is time that there was a little science and some real evidence to substantiate claims now. Just having Chet saying that he KNOWS it works will never quite work for me. And we still dont have the promised video... do we? C.C

A photo of the device that Savic has sent the Prof would be nice. It would also be nice if the Prof could also confirm the design, dimensions, etc for us, because what we have always been lacking is the precise details of a known working device.
   
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@Milehigh
Quote
From my perspective the 90 degrees Celsius business is just more hearsay.  That graph remains just as nonsensical as it was before.  It seems there is always some "new information" as things start to get stale.  It also complicates the measurements quite a bit when you think about it.

Actually the graph makes perfect sense if you think about it, I guess that is the problem, as the water approaches 100 Deg C which is it's boiling point any pressure variations can cause the water to instantly change state from liquid to gas ie ... bubbles. When a change in state occurs 2257 KJ/Kg is required for this change, now if the plates undergo mechanical oscillations we have a mechanism for a reduction in pressure at the surface of the plates which will cause the water to vaporize intermittently. As you may know a reduced pressure will cause water to boil at a lower temperature. When this occurs the gas bubbles will form an insulating barrier surrounding the plates so of course the current must fall as the resistance to the current has increased, thermodynamics 101.

Quote
There is no reason to believe that a guy that knows heat pumps is going to be an expert on resistive heating.  Likewise, I can't envision a commercial heat pump guy worrying about precise measuring methods with (presumably) smaller amounts of hot water.
But we don't know do we?, judging persons solely on their current occupation is pure speculation at best and for all we know he may have been a former employee of Nasa. For instance, Im just an engineer yet all the controls people come to me because they can't read the computer code in our systems, I am fluent in many programming languages and have been for 20 years. I also have the LAN tech's in my freaking office because they don't understand electronics yet none of this is supposedly related to my position.

I am not saying this technology works in any way I'm just your justification for it not working is weak at best.

Regards
AC



---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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Farrah
I missed you and you weren't even gone!!
@AC
Sir
You contributions are wonderful, You have amazing insight and intuition !

I anticipate having a lot to talk about on this topic in the near future!!

Chet



   
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AC:

Quote
Actually the graph makes perfect sense if you think about it

Please be specific, because I don't see anything at all in that graph that makes sense to me.  Please explain it to me.

If I recall correctly it takes about 40 calories of added heat to melt a gram of ice, and about 200 calories of added heat to boil a gram of water.  I am not bothering to look it up, just relying on some ancient memory neurons.  Even if pressure variations allow the water to turn into steam at a slightly lower temperature, you still need a massive amount of extra energy to create the steam.  But then again, I don't think that this project is about boiling water and creating steam.  I could be wrong, but I don't get that impression at all.  It's just about an over unity water heater, and it is not specifically about steam production.  Looking at the diagrams of the containment vessels makes it look like it's just about heating water where the effect is allegedly over unity.  Steam production is a whole new ball game and nobody has seriously talked about that.

So where does this leave your discussion and why are you talking about steam?

Quote
But we don't know do we?

Indeed, it's impossible to prejudge anyone by their profession.  I am just speculating on a hunch, that's all.  If you have made a career in selling and installing heat pumps for domestic and industrial uses, you know how to move massive amounts of heat from point A to point B and back using a network of pipes put into some sort a thermal mass (I assume usually the ground or bedrock) and how to install the electric or gas engine that does the mechanical work to compress the refrigerant gas to move the heat and all of that good stuff.  It doesn't necessarily mean that if you know industrial heat pumps that you will be familiar with more of a laboratory environment.

Anyway, time will tell.

But I'll say it again, this business of "it starts working at 90 degrees Celsius and above," it simply doesn't smell right to me.

MileHigh
   
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So I suppose a career in manufacturing heat pumps ,designing and testing new prototypes for performance levels would hold more weight?
Did you think we were talking about a plumber?

THx
Chet
   
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Chet:

That holds more weight for sure.  So is this the person that has been promising you a movie and has not delivered?  I seem to recall that you stated that this person has been working on this heater project for a while.  Like at least a month ago he had already confirmed good results.

I could be mixing up characters.

MileHigh
   
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Chet:

About this:

Quote
Message from Mr. "C"
Translation by Prop S

Dear friends and sonic boiler replicators.

You cannot publicly sell sonic boilers and make money out of it.
You will get arrested by police under charges of device not being patented and safe for use.
Sonic boiler didnt pass any safety checks and it is a type of device not recognized throughout the world, since it draws its energy from quantum field of vacuum ETRA which according to Einstein theory, officially does not exist.
According to "them", its a criminal act.
Any one of you can make sonic boiler for them selves or as a gift to relatives if they mastered the production process which is not easy.
I gave this to the world so anyone can make it for them selves and for that I bare no consequences.
At the time I patent the quantum heater COP =32 (should Einstein`s mafia allow me to) I will be able to sell it and everyone who wants to make it and knows how to, can make one for them selves.
For USA patent organization, sonic boiler and entire Tesla`s resonance technology are Perpetuum mobile and forbiden for production and sales and never to be recognized or put in production as long as there is oil, gas and nuclear power plants and MONEY.
Nuclear lobby struggles so people spend a lot of electricity and to pay high price for it, not cheap.
Energy is free and there is plenty of it in vacuum you just need to catch it with resonance. That my teacher Nikola Tesla
----

Translation is word by word so I know there are some sentences that you cannot understand but that is not my fault, savic expressions are to blame since some of his thoughts are incomplete but I translated them in such manner without adding anything on my own.

I am not copying and pasting this here to gratuitously bash this guy.  I suppose in part it's just for posterity purposes.

This has a "Romerouk" feel about it.  It just doesn't smell right.

Look at your reply:

Quote
Slovenia
The intent is quite clear ,The professor speaks the truth!
Thank you professor Savic ,I hope your gift to us helps to make this world a much better place!
I absolutely, positively believe it will ,Very shortly !!

Thank you
Chet

It's like you are playing into this guy, giving him what he wants.  It's borderline unhealthy.

I suggest that you politely ask for results from your heat pump guy.  Why not ask for some pictures of setups and data from the Serbian guy?  It would be interesting to see how he reacts.

Please just try to keep a bit of a cool head here and take some of the emotionality out of it and start being more analytical.  Pictures, test results, test data, whatever you can get, including from the Serbian guy.

I would not be surprised if the Serbian guy chokes if you ask him for pictures and data.  If that happens his credibility will start to erode in your mind, which would be a good thing in the long run.

MileHigh
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Afterall, you'd miss me if I was gone! ;)

Not really... I am married.  :D


---------------------------
   
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MH
His device is at the doctor right know being tested [3rd party].
Professor Savic is directly involved with these tests .
 What he said about "Patents" in this venue [perpetual motion] absolutely true!!

Me believing that the rendering that has evolved from Savics boiler will change the World ?

I completely believe this to be true ...And so does the Inventor of said rendering. [Mr. ikea]
THX
Chet
PS
MH
I know you don't believe this works ... That I'm emotionally caught up in this... to the point of turning a blind eye to "red Flags".
And I know you are sincere in this belief!
I completely respect that... It makes total sense ,you have the high ground of history Past........

This will be history    Future!!
This time is different [you'll see]



MH Prepares a sandwich for Chet ..A word sandwich..
\-----------


You ain't gonna make me eat those words this time missta........ O0





« Last Edit: 2012-01-24, 03:11:27 by ramset »
   
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Quote
This will be history    Future!!
This time is different [you'll see]

Chet, history shows that this is far from the first device (or person) that you have believed in 100% - I just wonder how many more times you will be saying, 'this time will be different (you'll see)'... ?

So anyway, if the Prof now has one of these devices, can't he at least take some pictures and provide some specifics for us to mull over whilst he conducts his tests... ?  I see no problems in this as you, Chet, are continually banging on about it being 'open source', for the good of the planet, blah, blah, blah, and Savic himself talks about giving it to the world. So come Prof. let the dog see the bone, eh!
   
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@Milehigh
Quote
Please be specific, because I don't see anything at all in that graph that makes sense to me.  Please explain it to me.

I think the graph is pretty straightforward, the temperature rises in proportion to the current flow which suggest resistive heating. Then when the temperature nears 100 Deg C which is the boiling point of water the current falls off sharply. Why does the current fall near 100 Deg C? There must be a reason and the most logical reason is that steam bubbles have formed at or near the surface of the plates which has raised the resistance to the current flow. This is because bubbles of steam or another gas are not water, they are not the same thus the resistance cannot be the same which is most likely why the current falls.
Then we have the question of the temperature at which the current starts falling, the specific heat of water is roughly 4 KJ/Kg/Deg C and this is the energy required to raise the temperature of water, then once water is at 100 Deg C it takes another 2257 KJ/Kg to turn the water into steam and this is called Latent heat or "hidden" because heat is added but does not change the temperature. This works both ways, 2257 KJ/Kg is needed to turn water into steam and when steam condenses back into water it releases 2257 KJ/Kg.There is also an issue of pressure because if the pressure at any point or region is lower than ambient then the water will turn into steam at a lower temperature.
What the graph tells me is that near 100 Deg C the resistance to the flow of current rises causing the current flow to drop, the most likely cause is steam bubbles due to the fact that the bells or plates are in motion which may cause pressure variations. We cannot consider water near 100 Deg C without considering the formation of steam bubbles that is absurd, water boils at 100 Deg C.


It may help to understand my perspective on this, I don't really care whether any device works or not, I do not really care whether the inventor knows what they are talking about or not or there credibility. I look at any technology to learn, to find answers to any questions I may have concerning the technology and hopefully make improvements. As such I don't really care what anyone make think is occuring in any given device as I will determine that for myself because we have to, we cannot really understand or improve anything without taking all the logical steps for ourselves. Basically I ask two questions, what may be happening and why? then I run through every possible scenario regardless of how improbable it may be, this is not statistics it is science.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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AC:

A graph of current vs temperature doesn't make any sense.  There is no correlation between the two.  Any level of current will be able to produce any temperature and any level of current should eventually be able to boil water.

Don't forget, this is a "professor" we are supposed to be talking about.

Note also that the graph apparently shows the water going "above 100 degrees."

It's nonsensical idiocy and these kinds of things would be dismissed out of had if I had my own free energy evaluation fascist dictatorship.  lol  What I really mean is that I wish that the collective bar was raised so that the people promoting this stuff would think twice.  Ironically enough, it's the opposite fascist dictatorship that reigns on the other forums.

Quote
It may help to understand my perspective on this, I don't really care whether any device works or not, I do not really care whether the inventor knows what they are talking about or not or there credibility. I look at any technology to learn, to find answers to any questions I may have concerning the technology and hopefully make improvements. As such I don't really care what anyone make think is occuring in any given device as I will determine that for myself because we have to, we cannot really understand or improve anything without taking all the logical steps for ourselves.

You should care, don't you think?  You are arguing for the "a million monkeys on typewriters" method for evaluating free energy claims.  It's crazy and "all of the tea in China" is not enough to evaluate all of the claims if you think like this.

Quote
Basically I ask two questions, what may be happening and why? then I run through every possible scenario regardless of how improbable it may be, this is not statistics it is science.

It's not science, it's the million monkeys deal.  Science has to advance faster than the brute force monkey approach.  You just have to have a junk filter.

Anyway, this is just a rhetorical argument that has been covered before.  I am sure another "wild and crazy" proposition will come along sometime in the future and you will endorse it while stating that you don't necessarily believe it to be true and I will say why it can't possibly work.  Just agree to disagree.

All that I can ask is that both sides chime in on June 30th for the sake of closure.  If it works, I will say that I was wrong and we can ring in the dawn of the Age of Aquarius.  If it doesn't work, how about you stepping forward and saying something?

A closed-loop 2000 megawatt steam turbine electrical power plant running on an unlimited supply of Professor Savic's invisible Serbian Pixie Dust.  It is a wonderful gift.

MileHigh
   
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Farrah this is the link for the Davey /Savic boiler that is in for testing.[the pic]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-53.html

Its not the sonic boiler, this one predates that ,its one of Savics early "Davey" renderings .

A Cop of 2.56 is claimed [Approx].

Not a very big bone ...........enjoy.

Chet
PS
HHMMM I see MH has made some comments above about going over 100c with water being nonsense? and others about steam]
TSK TSK ...........
I'm not allowed to talk about that yet {Rob {evolvingape made me promise]
I have to tell you MH when it comes to the things ""you"" know about water ,You sound like me with electronics....[OUCH]
You should study more.................

 
   
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Are you talking about the one the kid is holding?  That is the one in for testing? But that doesn't relate to the depiction in the following post, right?  So are there any depictions of the internal configuration of this particular unit, or is it simply what-you-see-is-what-you-get?

Got to say, that picture makes me cringe... how dangerous is this!

Let's just hope that no one has forgot to disconnect it from the mains next time the kid decides to pick it up!

When you say it is not the sonic boiler, what do you mean?  Does this one work differently?  If so how could you elaborate?
   
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Farrah
HHHMMMM
What are you doing up so late??

Any hoo ,No its not the sonic beer can boiler [I still laugh when I write that] with the Cop of 12
I am not sure if the Davey PDF that follows the Pic on the forum is a rendering of the Inside?

But ,That being said It will show just how accurate the professors Cop Numbers are?
THX
Chet
   
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@Milehigh
Quote
A graph of current vs temperature doesn't make any sense.  There is no correlation between the two.  Any level of current will be able to produce any temperature and any level of current should eventually be able to boil water.

Hmm, your right, I made certain assumptions such as there must be a constant heat loss or load on the system so that the increased amperage correlated to an increasing temperature but the graph is pretty vague, yet another game of fill in the blanks.

Quote
You should care, don't you think?  You are arguing for the "a million monkeys on typewriters" method for evaluating free energy claims.  It's crazy and "all of the tea in China" is not enough to evaluate all of the claims if you think like this.

I wouldn't say that and to be honest I still don't care and I still won't pick sides because there are no sides, just people trying to make a difference in whatever way they can and some will be right and some will be wrong. You see it's hard to pick a side one would call sane when the supposedly sane ones want to build nuclear reactors running at 5% total efficiency with no real solutions for long term storage, security, containment nor cleanup after the fact. As well the really sane one's apparently believe time can speed up and slow down, that there are strange multiple universes we can never prove and that things can just appear out of "virtually" nowhere, it begs the question who are the real monkeys here?.

Quote
Anyway, this is just a rhetorical argument that has been covered before.  I am sure another "wild and crazy" proposition will come along sometime in the future and you will endorse it while stating that you don't necessarily believe it to be true and I will say why it can't possibly work.  Just agree to disagree.

I would agree most everything is getting a little wild and crazy on both sides of the proverbial fence these days and I used to think that surely some people at the top levels knew what they were doing in regards to the future, but Im not so sure any more considering the facts. I guess time will tell, in the mean time we can agree to disagree which ain't so bad.

Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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@ramset
Quote
It is my intent to stick very close to this outline from AllCanadian
Quote:
Now if a person wanted to get creative we could also use an Arduino usb microcontroller to simultaneously sweep one frequency range or multiple frequencies while monitoring a hall effect sensor which senses vibrations of the cans which are partially saturated by a permanent magnetic field. In which case we would simply program the microcontroller to automatically sweep through a massive number of frequency combinations and log the frequency(s) and the output from the hall effect sensor and possibly a temperature sensor in the serial monitor for number crunching in a spread sheet.


I think this would be a good plan, I usually practice what I call intelligent design which in this context means we have to do things smarter. I learned this lesson years ago when doing experiments and rather than spend months chasing some remote resonance point or point of equilimbium etc.... in a system we simply let it come to us through intelligent design. That is we use a computer to do all the repetative work for us and when it finds what we are looking for it notifies us. Lol, I remember programming my mighty Vic 20 with it's infernal tape drive eons ago to do this very thing, I would type up five or six thousand lines of code for a simulation and that damn tape drive would chew it up and spit it out, stupid computers :D.

This is kind of a cross between simulations which I seldom if ever trust and manually doing experiments, I have found that many times there are certain points in time when all the right conditions come into play in a system and unexpected things can happen. I cannot say whether this device works or not however if your going to test it faster and cheaper is better.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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Vic 20   ;]   I had the RS CoCo.
Taught myself assmbly. I think it was the  ASM+ cartidge. Soldered double stacked my bank of 16k ram to 32k  :o, with pin 7 on the upper stack connected to a control IC for bank select  :o   lol  The seniors in my VoTeck electronics class said it wouldnt work.   BAAHAHAHAHAHA  evil genius back then.  Along with help from Hot CoCo magazine.   O0
Did all kinds a stuff with that thang.  :D

My brother had a Vic and, oh what was it, a tiny thing with the flat membrane keyboard. ZX81?  lol it was slow compared to my .8mhz 6809e processor.   I dont know how I remember that stuff

Those were the days     memories  ;)

Mags
   
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