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Author Topic: Sterling Allan going to So Africa to see OU device; seeks money  (Read 77684 times)
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@Milehigh,your mixing me in with the other members here, that have very silly false beliefs,
I don't believe that the TPU
is powered by the Schumann resonance ,the high tension hv power lines
,the earths magnetic field or fairy dust.I believe that the TPU works,that there are principles
 behind how it operates.
Like you I operate on logic and common sense, everything points to it being a real device,I don't operate on blind belief.
There can be no true free energy device for that to be you would have to create energy
that's impossible,this is why the south africa device has to be fake as a lot of others.Only a converter device is possible at best case,a device converting an unknown energy source into electrical energy.I gave you the history of where that belief came from,not that i believe it,I have been around a while,there are no real plans on how to make a tpu only false information,garbage in ,garbage out
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
But if you resonate in chorus then the amplitude is greater.


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But what is the fundamental basis for resonance?  Where do you see it in a beer bottle?  What are the through and across variables?  What are the associated energy storage elements?
   
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@ww
The number of smileys in your answers make me confused. I'm not sure that the goal of my reply is well understood. I reformulate:

You proposed as objection to the "dancing magnets" that:
"1. The changing fields produced at that drive coil will only exist within the core of that coil. Therefore, any effects will not be seen outside of that coil."

False! The field produced by the drive coil can exist outside of the core due to the non uniform change of the permeability along the toroid core, as explained. The cause of the dance of the magnets can be the same as the cause of the rotation of the Steorn's device (although it is not OU).
Even if the video is faked, the reason that you gave is not the right one.

There is also another possibility for the cause of the dancing magnets: the "one turn" effect of the coil. I explained it when I refuted the "Telos effect" (see http://tinyurl.com/6o24etd). The effect is inforced by putting in the coil a strong current which saturates the ferrite. This second possible cause provides also a field outside the toroid core and both causes can act together.


« Last Edit: 2012-02-22, 08:51:47 by exnihiloest »
   

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@ex,

Sorry for the confusion. My initial post you addressed was primarily sarcasm.

The experiment I performed to see the inner workings of Marco's dancing magnets showed that core saturation was not a requirement but core surface material saturation may be a valid answer.
 
That part wasn't important. The important part was that the 'Dancing' was always best between 7.3 and 7.9Hz, regardless of the physical size or mass of the magnets - up to a limit.

This experiment was declared a fake because Schumann resonances in a magnet are impossible.

Telos Effect countered?? Interesting. Think Rogowski Coil?




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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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Frequency equals matter...


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Quote
This experiment was declared a fake because Schumann resonances in a magnet are impossible.

But the repulsion is evident. The material wants to relax by it's own weight and the static attraction to the base.
Since, within reason, mass is not an inhibition, then producing respulsion and attraction at the correct timing seems to work on the flux strength and polarity of the driver toroid. The core material of the other magnets will absorb. The rotation of the absorbtion will aid or deny based upon the target magnets. Though the target magnets will not change polarity but merely move. The driver toroid never exceeds the base magnet flux strength. The vertical targets will rock and they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance
Quote
Earth's field NMRMain article: Earth's field NMR
In the Earth's magnetic field, NMR frequencies are in the audio frequency range, or the very low frequency and ultra low frequency bands of the radio frequency spectrum. Earth's field NMR (EFNMR) is typically stimulated by applying a relatively strong dc magnetic field pulse to the sample and, after the end of the pulse, analyzing the resulting low frequency alternating magnetic field that occurs in the Earth's magnetic field due to free induction decay (FID). These effects are exploited in some types of magnetometers, EFNMR spectrometers, and MRI imagers. Their inexpensive portable nature makes these instruments valuable for field use and for teaching the principles of NMR and MRI.

FID: Hmmm..... A time span with which to push again within the decay. If the Earth has it then suredly a magnet does too.



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  Sterling's report on the S African device is now out at PESN:

Quote
South African Fuel-Free Generator Preparing for Market

Sterling Allan reports on his recent trip South Africa to visit a company who has developed a 5 kilowatt Fuel Free Generator that will be available beginning March for their existing customers. Sterling will be getting a generator to test and use on his home from that first batch of 200.

Before I left, many people were concerned for my safety, wondering which direction from the airport I would be going in Johannesburg. I think you can see from these photos of my hotel room that they took very good care of me, as we were in an affluent, safe part of town. I only took 17 photos, total, while in Johannesburg, so obviously I wasn't in "tourist" mode. It was all business, and very enjoyable for me. (That last image is a glass sink.)


by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


On February 11 and 12, I was able to witness a 5 kilowatt (enough to power a home without central air conditioning, conservatively) fuel-free generator in Johannesburg and to meet the inventor and some of the principle players in helping him bring this technology to market.

As mentioned in my previous story on this matter, the South African company invited me to come see the technology first-hand so that I would not be making a statement along the lines of "they claim...", or "if this is real...", but so that I would be able to speak from personal experience after witnessing the technology in operation. They also offered to sell me a unit that I could personally test, promising to refund the cost if it did not perform as claimed.

I wish to thank all of you who stepped forward enthusiastically to donate funds to make this trip and procurement possible. The plan is to ship me one of the first 200 units.

The company, for now, wishes to remain off the radar. They don't currently have a website, but one is expected to be completed in about a month or so. They plan to make a big splash soon. For now, interested parties (as a result of this coverage), can reach them through me. So in this coverage, I will only refer to them as the "S. African Company", and their product as the "FFG", which stands for Fuel-Free Generator.

Top Five

I do consider this technology to be a contender in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing, due to its being close to market with a substantial, reliable output that is competitively priced to be more affordable than conventional energy sources, while producing no pollution, and being ready for rapid deployment through the setting up of licensees worldwide.

I was very impressed with the personnel involved in the S. African company. So many great technologies over the years have been hindered primarily by unworkable inventors or teams that can't work well together.

What I Saw

What I witnessed, along with three other scientists that I brought along -- all more qualified than myself -- was a 5 kW unit powered by four batteries, running for three hours continuous, driving a load of approximately 4 KW. According to the amp-hour rating of those batteries (102 Ah each), without being recharged from an external source, they should have lasted only 35 minutes before running down completely, no longer able to power the system.

The load was roughly 4 kW, comprised of:

- a two-burner stove, each burner consuming 1 kW (rated power according to manufacturer)
- a toaster that consumed 850 Watts (rated power)
- a pancake maker that consumes 1 kW (rated power)
- A 40-Watt fan (rated power)

The total output was as high as 5 kW, as long as the generator was turned at 3000 rpm, and there was sufficient load. (The generator only produces as much power as is used). One time we plugged in more load than 5 kW and it caused the system to shut down, as it should in that circumstance.

The system was comprised of a series-wound, brushed, DC motor (slightly modified) powered by one bank of two 12-Volt batteries (102 Ah) wired in series for a 24-Volt output. The company says the back-EMF is harvested into a second, identical battery bank, which is also wired in series. These two banks are periodically cycled, trading places in the circuit, and the net charge stays essentially the same, across both banks. The optimized cycling of power and storing of the back-EMF are all controlled by a proprietary circuit board and software developed by the inventor. The motor shaft is connected directly to the shaft of the AC generator, which spins at 3,000 rpm to produce 5 kW of power at 50 Hz, 220-V.

There was no external power cord or fuel going to the system. They lifted the table on which the system was housed, to show that no cords were run through the legs into the floor to a hidden power source. It is a closed system as far as physical devices are concerned.

We didn't have a way to detect whether or not electromagnetic radiation might be in use to power the system inductively or wirelessly; but we did see all around the room as we entered through the first floor underneath the lab, and we could see what was on the other side of three of the four walls, and we could see the roof as we approached the building, which didn't have anything on top of it. The unit was in the middle of the room, maybe 15 feet away from the fourth wall that we didn't look on the other side of.


Data

Here is the data we collected from the third test we ran: 
[See table, here:  http://pesn.com/2012/02/22/9602042_South_African_Fuel-Free_Generator_Preparing_for_Market/



The starting voltages of the individual batteries were less than 100% charged: Bank 1: 12.4, 12.43; Bank 2: 12.25, 12.42. We did not take an end point reading for the individual batteries (sorry for the oversight). At the time, I was thinking we would be back again.

According to these data, it looks like Bank 1 was not harnessed, and that Bank 2 was the only one being drawn from. Also, one of the two batteries in Bank 2 was not full at the start, but was discharged between 20-40 percent. With Lead Acid batteries, most of the discharge takes place during the first 1-V drop. At the end of three hours, Bank 2 was down nearly half a volt per 12-V battery (averaging), so it was somewhere between 50-70% discharged (assuming a fully charged battery starts at 12.6-12.9 VDC).

That analysis was made in hind sight, a few days later.

The company states: "The system is configured to swap between battery banks when the driving bank has depreciated by 8 percent, as can be seen from the tests, the driving bank dropped by only 4.9 percent."

I look forward to being able to see accurate data collected over a long period of time, showing individual battery voltages, current, and output energy readings accurately recorded as well.

But I will maintain that while our 3-hour run could have been more rigorously recorded, the basic principle does hold up: The system ran many times longer than the amp-hour rating of the batteries would account for if they were the sole source of power. Energy was showing up from somewhere else, or being transformed in some new way.

From an energy conservation frame of reference, modern science would predict that the batteries would do nothing but diminish. But there is something about this configuration that apparently allows ubiquitous, inexhaustible free energy "from the wheel work of nature", as Telsa called it, to be harvested. So the batteries did not drain nearly as fast, even though the system was producing significant excess power.

The claim/objective is that when working as designed, the system will be able to run continuously -- for years -- without the batteries dropping below a certain level (e.g. below 70% fully charged). From what I saw, I would say that they are on their way to meeting that objective, but they are not consistently there yet.

Began with a Failed Demonstration

The above description was the second test that was done for us on that set-up. The first run didn't turn out as planned.

The batteries diminished, the motor/generator slowed, and after 38 minutes it stopped running. Note that according to lead acid battery specs, these batteries were nearly fully discharged at the start of the test. I don't know that the S. African group understood or appreciated this attribute of batteries -- that it is not a linear relationship of voltage to power capacity.

Here are the data from that run:  (see table, here:  http://pesn.com/2012/02/22/9602042_South_African_Fuel-Free_Generator_Preparing_for_Market/ )

You can imagine the feelings of "Oh no; another dud!" that I was fighting as we watched this. But I should say that I was hopeful that the problem, whatever it was, would be identified and resolved.

It turns out that the previous test they had run had been for a client that had requested a control run that entailed running the system without the inventor's circuit, to see how long the system would go until it stopped. This damaged two of the batteries. Running lead acid batteries to zero is not good for them. Also, not all the batteries were fully charged at the beginning.

They replaced those batteries (including with one that wasn't fully charged) and then ran the test again, which gave the results I reported earlier.

40 kW Array

They also ran a 40 kW system for us that was set up the same way except with a DC motor suitable to turn a 40 kW generator; and 16 batteries, comprised of 4 sets of batteries in parallel in place of a single battery in the 5 kW set-up.

It wasn't set up at the time for extended running, so we only saw that one run for about 10 minutes. It wasn't wired to the load bank (a ~$10,000+ piece of equipment with resistive coils), and the shaft connection wasn't properly aligned. It was running without a load.

The other prototype size outputs apparently are available at their manufacturing facility. They include:

   1. 5.5 kW single phase
   2. 8 kW single phase
   3. 12 kW 3 phase
   4. 16 kW 3 phase
   5. 40 kW 3 phase
   6. 42 kW 3 phase


Other Scientists that Accompanied Me

The three other scientists that came with me to this demonstration were Johan, Keith, and Henry, all from Johannesburg.

Keith is an electronics technician with many years experience in all kinds of gadgets. He wrote:

    "I felt privileged to witness the future in person. I may be just a certificated electronics technician, but with more than 40 years field experience, I know enough to know that what I witnessed is no scam. I'm not sure how this process actually works, but it is most definitely working. It's one thing to read about things like this, and most reports are 'iffy' to say the least. To witness this in person and see that no extra power was being added, and the unit keeps on going way beyond what the batteries are capable of delivering, is completely mind blowing. The hairs on the back of my neck are still tingling! Thank you so much for arranging for me to witness this!"

Keith's friend, Henry has a degree in electrical engineering with 25 years experience in industrial electronic design, his specialty being electric motors and generators. He was primarily the one making measurements, asking questions, making observations, and, along with the rest of us, grinning at the end of the day. To be fully satisfied, he would like to see a longer run, with more careful measurement of the input and output, but he thought the device definitely looked promising.

The S. Africa Team

As mentioned above, I was highly impressed with the S. African company's team.

The inventor is actually very socially functional and not so eccentric he is impossible to work with -- a phenomenon I've seen far too many times over the years. Some of the best technologies are opposed the most by the inventor's inability to interact with those who seek to help.

The inventor has been successful as a technologist and manager for a large company. He's not the archetypal outcast of the fringe, as is often found in the free energy sector.

He came up with this invention in a round-about way, not starting out with a particular vision in mind. He was just tinkering, building a toy for his daughter, making one modification after another, tweaking, optimizing, until he ended up with design that powered his house for three weeks, which was when he brought it to a financier, who then powered his office with it for three weeks.

The company is privately funded, so they are not looking for investment.


They also have a lot of patriotism toward S. Africa. They are proud of the many milestone accomplishments of the country, and seem intent on having S. Africa be honored once again by being the birthplace of this technology.

They hope to get the distinction of bringing the first exotic free energy technology (of the home-power electricity variety) to the marketplace; and to be able to leverage the branding opportunities that will be associated with that. And after they have successfully launched the 5 kW FFG into the market, they would like to expand into a role of helping to incubate new breakthrough energy technologies -- to become the Siemens of Free Energy or of affordable distributed power.

No Photos

One point of frustration for me was that I wasn't permitted to take any photos of any of the devices. Their reason wasn't for protection of proprietary information, because a photo wouldn't divulge such. Rather, their reason had to do with image. They want the first images the public sees to be professionally done, in order to present a good first impression.

I disagree. I think their set-up looked fine. Compared to most of what I'm used to seeing in this sector, their equipment looked great, especially their 40 kW system.

Plans for Roll-out

The company plans to focus at first on producing the 5 kW system. They have several customers lined up, including some multi-national companies with strong name recognition, who will be testing their first 200 units built, set to begin in March. They will continue to produce 200 units/month for the S. African market, increasing this to 500/month by the end of the year.

They showed us a cabinet with 200 circuits they have prepared to go into those first 200 units. The 5 kW system we were observing was actually a test system to make sure each of those circuits has been built properly.

After the customers have run those first units for thirty days, 1) they will purchase them if they are satisfied with their performance, and 2) they will publish a report of the performance of these devices, to be included in their promotional material, both for potential licensees (more detailed) and for the public (simplified).

If the outcomes of those tests are sufficiently positive, then the company will do a big press conference or launch event to announce the product to the world.

After the 5 kW system is proven, then the company will next focus on rolling out larger sizes.

Skipping Alpha Testing

This method of having the first customers be the ones to test the first manufactured units is not the way a product is normally rolled out commercially. Usually, the first testing of the device intended for market is done in-house (alpha testing). Only after thousands of hours of testing and receiving certifications, followed by extensive beta testing (by external parties in real-world environments) would the product be introduced to customers. Alpha testing would include stress tests under varying situations including heat, cold, vibration, running to destruction, determining optimums and margins; as well as toxicity and interference tests to show the device operation doesn't impact human health or electronics.

However, remember that this FFG system uses primarily off-the-shelf components that have already been run through the rigors of such tests.

The alternator, for example, will already have such testing, certifications, and approvals. As long as it is being turned at its rated speed, it will produce its rated output, whether the source of the rotating torque is hydro, wind, diesel generator, etc. A home warranty or insurance adjuster should only be concerned with the output of the alternator, which has the necessary credentials. So (I would think) the classification of this unit would be in the same group as a genset, which already has the needed UL or CE ratings.


Customers can buy off-the-shelf grid-tie systems that will sync the generator up with the local grid power, with automatic shut-off, in the case of a grid power failure, so that linemen are not jeopardized by the power coming from the device. A grid tie would be best, since the unit can puts out a constant 5 kW, and with net metering, most homes would come out well ahead at the end of the month; thus speeding up the payback time, in those states where net metering allows for payback for net excess energy generation from the customer's side.

What does this do to the Batteries?

One downside to minimizing a rigorous alpha-testing approach, as I see it, is that the company has not yet been able to study long-term performance results for the system.

The longest it has been run in one setting has been three weeks: once when powering the inventor's home; and once when powering the financier's office -- both for three weeks.


Alex Xanthoulis, CEO of Defkalion, said that he saw a system similar to this 1.5 years ago at a university in Greece. It worked short-term, but it hammered the batteries, so they only lasted a few days. Since the South African company has far exceeded that, it is probably safe to say that their circuitry is different, and doesn't have as much, if any, of a detrimental effect on the batteries.

Licensing Opportunity

The S. African company plans to have each country have their own manufacturing and distribution network, rather than have one primary manufacturer.

The licensee task will entail sourcing the off-the-shelf batteries, DC motor and AC generator (or other end applications for capturing that power from the DC motor shaft, such as a pump); manufacturing the cabinet to house the system; assembling the systems, and distributing them to customers; and servicing the customers.

However, one very important point is that in every case, the licensee will purchase the control system for each unit from the S. African company. That is both to protect the intellectual property and to provide a built-in way for them to get a royalty on each unit sold.

The up-front licensing fee is likely to be low, like a deposit or earnest payment on a property offer. The main revenue for the S. African company will be from sales of the control circuit, which only they will manufacture, containing the proprietary elements.


Potential Licensee Attributes

Usually, when a company talks about licensing a technology, they have all the alpha and beta testing done, with reams of data and spec sheets about the device(s) to be licensed.

In the case of the S. African company, though, potential groups coming in now to license will be early players, and will need to have a different threshold of willingness to assume risk, withstand skepticism, work through bugs, etc.

Potential licensees will need to be able to provide evidence of their capability to perform functions such as:

    * Financial means to capitalize the project (capital expenses will not be that high, compared to other energy device manufacturing scenarios).
    * Ability to source the best, most affordable, reliable, compatible off-the-shelf components.
    * Ability to run installation, maintenance, repair, and other support services.
    * Ability to properly market the device.
    * Proper motivation: humanitarian, not greed-based.
    * Ability to put up with and overcome skepticism, criticism, rudeness, and even overt suppression tactics.


Metamorphosis Rather than Usurpation

The arising of this and other exotic free energy technologies that are both clean and have the potential to render obsolete many energy modalities, might not go over well with those that are already involved in those sectors.

The S. African company hopes to make this transition as minimally disruptive as possible, while still addressing the planet's need for affordable, clean, distributed power, which empowers the individual while rendering obsolete the corrupt powers that be. Good riddance to the latter, but there are many sectors that aren't corrupt which could also be negatively impacted.

In order to minimize this collateral damage, the S. African company will seek to work with those companies to let them be part of this opportunity, rather than be put out of business by it.


Postscript

Just a quick note on the side.

Thanks again for the donations that made all this trip and more possible. You people are awesome. Not one person who donated asked for their money back, even though there was a lot of criticism about how long it took me to get this report up. I will gladly refund any such requests. I promise to put those funds to good use.

I've put this technology up in #1 position in our Top 5, but I should say that they are neck-in-neck with Defkalion. It's close to a tie for first, being very close in terms of price point, closeness to market, quality of team, cleanness of product.

For you naysayers who immediately jump to the conclusion that anything involving "free energy" must be bogus or fraudulent, bear in mind that this company is not seeking money. In fact they spurn any such inquiries.

   

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Frequency equals matter...


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Oh really?
Quote
For you naysayers who immediately jump to the conclusion that anything involving "free energy" must be bogus or fraudulent, bear in mind that this company is not seeking money. In fact they spurn any such inquiries.

Here in lies the hook:
Quote
However, one very important point is that in every case, the licensee will purchase the control system for each unit from the S. African company. That is both to protect the intellectual property and to provide a built-in way for them to get a royalty on each unit sold.

The up-front licensing fee is likely to be low, like a deposit or earnest payment on a property offer. The main revenue for the S. African company will be from sales of the control circuit, which only they will manufacture, containing the proprietary elements.

But:
Quote
However, remember that this FFG system uses primarily off-the-shelf components that have already been run through the rigors of such tests.


The protocol will be reverse engineered and let loose upon the world.

UL listing? If one dislodges from the grid a [License] is not necessary.


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From the technical description, it appears that

1.  Two lead-acid batteries were used to start, maintain and recharge another two lead-acid batteries.
2.  Lead-out or Bring-in Energy from the environment is used to power the 5KW load.
3.  The two-acid batteries were swapped from time to time.

I shall talk to the group with recharging lead-acid batteries for electric cars.  There is much similarity.
Their technology is:
1. One lead-acid to start.
2. Lead-out or Bring-in Energy from the environment is used to recharge the whole bank of batteries.
3. The starting battery can be swapped by one of the recharged batteries.

I have full confidence that the South African Company is not a hoax.

The Divine Wine has more than one Server.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Sure sounds a lot like the magnacoaster affair.

We'll see if it actually pans out as described. I'm not holding my breath. :-X
   

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We'll see if it actually pans out as described. I'm not holding my breath. :-X

I'd be way past purple by now. :o


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You will need cryogenic suspension if you are going to plan waiting for your delivery from Green Power SA.

Meanwhile, look:

Quote
Richard Willis @Magnacoaster,  17th February:

@Sam2a5 soon waiting on all new parts so when we can shoot the video with new parts

Richard Willis @Magnacoaster,  14th February:

New dealer training materials will be done this week

A dealer network?   lol
   

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@Sam2a5 soon waiting on all new parts so when we can shoot the video with new parts

He'll be way past purple.
I personally know 2 people who got ripped off.
One was 6000usd, another was a 300usd controller and a trip up. In both cases nothing was ever received.



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Well, Sterling is being raked over the coals now that he has finally made his posting that had to be pre-approved by the entity known as Green Power SA.  The people in South Africa removed anything in the report to do with the "force majeure" which is a laugh.  "Mark Dansie was refused to do any serious testing and we refuse to tell you why."  That really must be giving people the warm and fuzzies.

I actually made a posting that ties in poor Richard Willis so I will repost it here:

There are so many holes that you can poke into this story it's not funny. Quite a few have already been mentioned so I will try to break some fresh ground here.... 
 
Quoting Sterling: 
 
<<<They also ran a 40 kW system for us that was set up the same way except with a DC motor suitable to turn a 40 kW generator; and 16 batteries, comprised of 4 sets of batteries in parallel in place of a single set of batteries in the 5 kW set-up.>>> 
 
We can't be 100% certain if this quote is to be taken literally, they may have told him this but left out a few details. All that being said, you NEVER put banks of big batteries in parallel, NEVER. Sterling, if you actually saw sets of 4 batteries in series, then wired in parallel with other sets of 4 batteries in series, then that is the kiss of death for Green Power SA because it clearly shows that they don't have a clue and are just con artists trying to fake that they know what they are doing. 
 
For what it's worth, Richard Willis, the moron of Magnacoaster, actually shows big banks of batteries wired in parallel in one of the manuals for his non-existent product.
   

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Quote
you NEVER put banks of big batteries in parallel
Did you say never, it is common practise with large diesel engines.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NYHAVnqbRCkC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=trucks+use+2+batteries+in+parallel&source=bl&ots=6c-QTR6G55&sig=RYOIaQt75e3qLzNTk5NKgQKsP9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WOpFT7ibBoLH0QW7tdSoDg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=trucks%20use%202%20batteries%20in%20parallel&f=false

The less you discharge the batteries the longer the life.
The main problem is sulfating of one battery, now if this is being pulsed charged then i also understand that desulphating is a common occurrence with these pulsed recharge systems.
   
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Did you say never, it is common practise with large diesel engines.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NYHAVnqbRCkC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=trucks+use+2+batteries+in+parallel&source=bl&ots=6c-QTR6G55&sig=RYOIaQt75e3qLzNTk5NKgQKsP9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WOpFT7ibBoLH0QW7tdSoDg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=trucks%20use%202%20batteries%20in%20parallel&f=false

The less you discharge the batteries the longer the life.
The main problem is sulfating of one battery, now if this is being pulsed charged then i also understand that desulphating is a common occurrence with these pulsed recharge systems.

Thank you for posting the correct information. 


   

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@Peterae,
In the SA situation though it is equivalent to a stun gun circuit. A (2) 9vdc batteries in parallel can bring down a 250 lb man. But how many times before the batteries are dead?
It would take many triggers pulls before the man will get back up and we go around again until the gun has no stun.
In the SA scenario we didn't get the luxury of spending time.

What I have seen people fall for is the battery bank switching explanation. Might work in some cases but for the inexperienced they are told the batteries act as capacitors to hold a charge. This is where the con men have set hooks. But we all know they just increased the voltage and current by the # of batteries in place. I know you know this. We all should.


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unfortunately when i here the words OU and big battery banks in the same sentence then i seem to loose interest in the device  C.C
   

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MH that must have been 1 big battery they used in the old submarines or maybe they had to parallel them because you cannot get a zillion amp hour battery as a single unit.

and again  :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_room

Quote
The type of battery most commonly employed in battery rooms is the flooded lead-acid battery. Batteries are installed in groups. Several batteries are wired together in a series circuit forming a group providing DC electric power at 12, 24, 48 or 60 volts (or higher). Usually there are two or more groups of series-connected batteries. These groups of batteries are connected in a parallel circuit.
   
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I think you are missing MH's point with regards to the batteries in parallel.

In my experience, lead acid batteries in parallel will slowly discharge through each other unless absolutely perfectly matched, but I'm sure MH will elaborate.
   
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MH,  I'm not sure it is relevant to this discussion but I have to ask why you say you never put large batteries in parallel?  I've been putting them in series and parallel for years on a huge 48 volt Trace Inverter.  Everything works fine.  I've even got some 12 volt batteries over 20 years old that still hold a charge well (those old ones were discarded phone system backup batteries @ about 100 pounds each).  I even mix and match with a lot of other batteries and they all work fine.  They outlast typical car usage.  I do believe these inverters use a sophisticated charging scheme that keeps them in good shape. 
   

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and what is your reason for saying that 2 battery's in parallel will discharge Farah, i have never heard of this the impedance mismatch just means one battery will tend to fully discharge before the other under a long full load and damage it before the other battery reaches the same point, the life of the first battery to over discharge will sulphate, but no energy will magically disappear when they are in parallel
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I think the potential problem is with the difference in terminal voltage of each. If they are not exactly the same, then the higher one will discharge into the lower one. But this should be ok too, they will equalize.

The important thing to note, is that it is preferable to always use the same battery type together, and even the same exact model if possible.

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http://www.overunity.com/11851/any-proof/msg313694/#msg313694

My theory behind the South Africa Company is outlined in that thread.

Quote
I would like to bring attention to one important fact.
 
The use of the battery is to achieve the "commercial resonance condition".  Once this condition is achieved, energy will be led-out or brought-in from the environment.
 
The battery is NOT the primary source of energy in the FLEET or the South Africa Company devices.
 
Thus we can use the two oscilloscope Power Waveform Comparison Method to find large "standing wave occurrences" or "commercial resonance conditions".  Once such a condition is hinted by the Waveform Comparison, we can go into the more detailed analysis with the data in the CSV files.
 
Appreciate the Divine Wine.
   
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e2matrix:

Batteries are considered to be voltage sources and lead-acid batteries can have a very low output impedance, on the order of milliohms. By definition, you never connect voltage sources in parallel. Supposing that you have a freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series so the voltage is (4 x 12.6) = 50.4 volts. Supposing that you have another freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series. However, in this case because of natural variations in batteries the voltage on this bank happens to be 51.6 volts.  
 
So, what will happen when you connect a bank with a nominal voltage of 50.4 volts in parallel with another bank where the nominal voltage is 51.6 volts?  
 
The answer is that you will see voltage somewhere in between, say 51.0 volts. However, what you will not see, is that the bank with the higher voltage will be DISCHARGING into the bank with the lower voltage. Because the impedances of the battery banks are so low, the current could actually be very high, 10 or 20 or 50 amps.  
 
When you put two batteries in parallel, this is very unhealthy, they are voltage sources and they will "fight" with each other to try to maintain their own output voltage.  
 
With big lead-acid batteries, there is a potential for serious danger. The high discharge of current could cause the "stronger" bank to heat up, and that will make it's output voltage go even higher. That will cause even more current to flow, which will cause the batteries to get even hotter, etc. This has the potential to set up a positive feedback loop and both battery banks can spiral out of control in a form of "thermonuclear meltdown." It can be a very dangerous situation.  
 
In simple terms you should never connect any batteries in parallel, even AAA cells. There is a very simple way to correct for this situation for the example we are discussing here. It's simply to use big power diodes at the output of each set of batteries.  
   
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