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OverUnity Research > Benches > ltseung888 > The FLEET DIY KIT
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Author Topic: The FLEET DIY KIT  (Read 74274 times)
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img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #100 on: 2012-08-21, 05:08:12 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2012-08-20, 23:46:46




Lawrence,

I'm trying to understand your claim above, and want to roughly calculate the input and output energy.



INPUT

1) what capacitor are you using?  how many farads?   

2 )  and what is the voltage that it gets charged to from the hand crank?



OUTPUT

1)  can you provide the motor/pump type?  or
2)  can you scope the voltage waveform to the motor, and the voltage across a 1 ohm resistor in series with the motor?   (so I can understand the current flowing to the motor?)


30 minutes runtime for an air pump might be significant, but it all depends on how much energy that hand crank delivers and how efficiently the pump is.

EM

Dear EM,

Please wait to see the video or the actual device working in a Demonstration Center.  We do not need to make any claims.  This is a Competition Item.  The Competitors will demonstrate and exceed this fact to the World.  To be fair to the Competitors, no information will be released until the DIY kit product is out.

God Bless,

Lawrence
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #101 on: 2012-08-21, 05:22:38 »
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There is speculation that the Tseung Resonance effect is due to the use of super capacitors.

For those who have purchased the LED street lamp from G-LED and taken it apart, they will tell you that there are NO super capacitors.

If G-LED gives me the permission, I shall show the "soul"of the system.  I repeat:

There are three ways to power a device:
(1) Mains Power
(2) Stored Power in batteries or super capacitors
(3) Lead-out energy

The "lead-out energy research DIY kit"focuses on the third method.

There is no known way of calculating the third method yet.  Resonance is not linear.  We do not even known exactly when the peaks appear.  That is why we sell the "lead-out energy research DIY kit"to the World - so that all may learn and benefit together.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #102 on: 2012-08-21, 07:37:05 »
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Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 05:22:38
...
There are three ways to power a device:
(1) Mains Power
(2) Stored Power in batteries or super capacitors
(3) Lead-out energy
...

I can confirm an important point, which will be helpful if you want to power your house: methods #1 and #2 work!
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #103 on: 2012-08-21, 07:39:41 »
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For those interested in the oscilloscope analysis, I am reproducing Divine Revelation 3 here.

Please study the Output and Input Power Comparison waveforms.

The Output power is greater than the Input Power because of the Lead-out Energy.  Amen.
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #104 on: 2012-08-21, 09:30:05 »
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With the Divine Revelation 3 example, we use the oscilloscope to capture the Input instantaneous Voltage and the Input instantaneous Current (voltage across a 1 ohm resistor).

We capture the data in CSV files.  We then use Excel to calculate the average Input Power.  We do the same for Output.
  
In this way, we can compare the average Output Power with the average Input Power.  The result is as follows:
Average Input Power         0.011311   
Average Output Power             0.110754   
                  
COP=average Output/Input Power   9.79   

Should we believe the Experimental Results and the Excel Calculations???
   
img  Paul-R
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #105 on: 2012-08-21, 11:35:49 »
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Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-20, 22:53:25

One possible method [...to determine power out...]  is the calorimeter test – bring 1 liter of water from one specified temperature to another specified temperature.

This is a very sound method. Nobody can argue with this. I would like to see it adopted universally.

On the subject of electric shocks, some back emf spikes can be pretty meaty. People should know that
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #106 on: 2012-08-21, 11:47:05 »
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In order to understand the oscilloscope results, we need to understand the following:
(1)   Standing waves.  Standing waves are characteristics of resonance.  In a standing wave, there is positive power (waveform contains area above the zero axis) and there is negative power (waveform contains area below the zero axis).
(2)   For a perfect standing wave, the positive power will be identical to the negative power.  This is sometimes interpreted as – standing waves require no energy to sustain.
(3)   In the case of FLEET prototypes, we should look at both the Input Power Waveform and the Output Power waveform.
(4)   In most of the experiments, we find that the Input Power Waveform has both positive and negative areas.  If the average is positive, we can interpret that as some energy is supplied by the Input Energy Source to power the load.  In some cases, the average is negative.  We can interpret that as more energy is fed back than supplied!
(5)   We can do the same for Output.  Sometimes, we get both the Input and Output power having negative values.  We can interpret that as both Input and Output are feedback circuits.  The Lead-out Energy is sufficient to sustain the load and giving some extra back to the source battery or DC Power supply.
(6)   If both the average Input Power and the Output Power are positive, we can compare their values.  This is usually interpreted as the COP (Coefficient of Performance or Output Power divided by Input Power).  When this value is greater than one, we call this overunity.

In the particular case of Divine Revelation 3 example, we have case 6.  The COP is greater than 1.  The actual value is 9.79.  This is considered a very low value in the case of FLEET prototypes.  Values exceeding 50 are common. 

This value sometimes is worthless.  The battery can be taken off.  In this case, the Input Power is zero.  Anything over zero is infinity.  The only sensible way to interpret this phenomenon is to assume all the energy supplied to the load (e.g. lighting LEDs) is lead-out energy.

May the Almighty guide us on the correct path to interpreting Physics.
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #107 on: 2012-08-21, 11:49:08 »
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Wow, EM!

If I'd read your post without knowing whom had posted it, you would have been quite far from the top of my list.

Quote
I'm a man of science and a believer in the Bible, so I'm at odds with a lot of things that are brought forth by the "scientists" that call themselves evolutionists, but I keep an open mind now and than.

This is what I cannot for the life of me fathom.  Are you not in constant conflict with yourself - like a man with two heads? I don't even understand how you can function in the world!

Quote
IT TAKES MORE FAITH TO BELIVE IN EVOLUTION THAN IN A CREATOR GOD!    

EM, how can you possibly rationalise this statement? The evidence of evolution is all around us, it takes no faith at all. On the other hand, an unseen supreme omnipresent being responsible for every action and inaction of every living thing (past and present) is, in my book (...not the Bible) one bloody enormous leap of faith!

I'm always puzzled, not only by why people trust the writings in a book that is centuries old and has been re-written so many times as to have little relationship to the original, but also why people actually feel the need to believe in a supreme being - particularly one that seems quite happy to let so many unspeakably bad things happen to good people! What is wrong with putting your faith in yourself, your family and your friends?

Incidentally, I'm finding the religious debates here far more interesting than the talk of Free Energy. And no offense Tseung, but I daresay that there is more chance of me finding religion than you proving you have produced free energy.  ;)
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #108 on: 2012-08-21, 14:24:52 »
Group: Guest
Warning.  I shall start deleting religious posts in this thread from now on.
   
img  poynt99
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #109 on: 2012-08-21, 14:41:51 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 14:24:52
Warning.  I shall start deleting religious posts in this thread from now on.

Does that include your own Lawrence?
   
img  AllPhase
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #110 on: 2012-08-21, 15:14:22 »
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1.  If money was no object, let's put 10 scientists, 10 electrical engineers, 10 pharmacists, 10 doctors,
10 surgeons, 10 pysicists, 10 biologists, 10 nuclear physicists, & 10 chemists in a giant laboratory.

2.  This giant lab is stocked with every drug in the world, every piece of medical equipment in the
world, every piece of electronic equipment in the world, etc, etc, etc.

3.  Their objective is to prove atheism is true by creating a live worm or living fly, strickly from scratch, using non-living drugs, minerals, & equipment.  Nothing hard like creating a
living dog or a cow from scratch.  We will keep it simple.  LOL.  Atheists claim life originated when lightning struck in a soupy swamp millions of years ago.  So SURELY they can
create something living with their Electron Microscopes, Modern State of the Art Equipment, "SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE", expertise, & MASSIVE amount of drugs, equipment, etc, etc.

4.  Hmmmmmmm.  I think any reasonable person with half a brain will know how they would utterly fail.  How about your stance Farrah?  LOL
They would FAIL because 1 of the Laws of Biology says that Life can ONLY come from pre existing Life.

So maybe we should pay more attention to what Lawrence is saying?
.
« Last Edit: 2012-08-21, 17:14:15 by AllPhase »
   
img  ion
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #111 on: 2012-08-21, 15:27:16 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 14:24:52
Warning.  I shall start deleting religious posts in this thread from now on.

oooooooo I'm afraid, very afraid. Talk about a double standard!


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #112 on: 2012-08-21, 21:07:16 »
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The first feedback was:

"You need scientific evidence to convince the Scientists and the World.  The best scientific instrument is the oscilloscope.  Publish the pictures, videos, oscilloscope set ups, the detailed analysis etc.  Do that for multiple prototypes.  Do all the possible combinations.  The most impressive is the 1KW unit.  Scientists will demand to see the oscilloscope analysis.  Layman will be happy with the brightness comparisons.

Once the scientific world accepts the results, you do not need to worry about the debunkers on the Internet.  They will try to distract and jeer.  Just have faith and scientific evidence."

Be parepared for massive and detailed oscilloscope analysis results and photos.

*** There will be a delay as requested by the patent lawyer.   
   
img  EMdevices
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #113 on: 2012-08-21, 23:58:02 »
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Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 14:24:52
Warning.  I shall start deleting religious posts in this thread from now on.

Sorry Lawrence, we'll comment on your circuit only.  

good points Farrah,  I don't know how I do it sometimes, I've evolved into a monster!     :D


Ok,  the circuit Lawrence posted does indeed show more OUTPUT energy than INPUT, if we are to trust the waveforms.   Anybody see what the problem is?

EM
   
img  Farrah Day
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #114 on: 2012-08-22, 00:44:37 »
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Well, I see the fun has now gone out of this thread... and the kit price has nearly trebled, and I missed it in the sale... bugger!

I guess we now simply have the long wait for Tseung to prove himself... think I'll go and watch some paint dry. 
   
img  EMdevices
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #115 on: 2012-08-22, 02:06:38 »
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Tesung, 

you made a calculation mistake in your excell file, on the Output Tab.

Channel 2 of the Output, is measured across a 10 ohm resistor, so you have to divide that column by 10, to get the correct current magnitude.  As it stands,  your Output power is larger by a factor of 10.



When the correction is made,  your powers become:

Input   =  0.011311   
Output = 0.0110754   

COP = Output/Input = 97.92% ,    so very efficient, but not overunity!


Something else you should be aware, the quantazation error is quite large on the small signals gathered from the resistors, both Oscilloscope 1 and 2.  You might want to amplify these probe voltages before they are sent to the oscilloscope, and then scale back in the calculations.    It will be more accurate that way.

EM
   
img  ltseung888
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #116 on: 2012-08-22, 03:35:29 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2012-08-22, 02:06:38
Tseung, 

you made a calculation mistake in your excell file, on the Output Tab.

Channel 2 of the Output, is measured across a 10 ohm resistor, so you have to divide that column by 10, to get the correct current magnitude.  As it stands,  your Output power is larger by a factor of 10.



When the correction is made,  your powers become:

Input   =  0.011311   
Output = 0.0110754   

COP = Output/Input = 97.92% ,    so very efficient, but not overunity!


Something else you should be aware, the quantazation error is quite large on the small signals gathered from the resistors, both Oscilloscope 1 and 2.  You might want to amplify these probe voltages before they are sent to the oscilloscope, and then scale back in the calculations.    It will be more accurate that way.

EM

Dear Em,

I am glad that you actually read through the excel file.  In this particular case, I used 1 ohm for both input and output.  Please refer to my comments just before the circuit diagram.

There is no error in the waveform picture and there is NO error in the COP result.

Thank you for bringing it up though.
*** I do not mind good academic challenges.  It will prepare our team to face MIT, Stanford or the like.
*** According to the Patent Lawyer, I should not publish new results.  But I can comment on the already posted results.  There are over a dozen already at my bench.  I shall refer to them and explain every individual case.  I believe these already cover the different cases – including negative average power.
***
   
img  Farmhand
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #117 on: 2012-08-22, 05:46:05 »
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Very interesting ! Any comeback to that EM ?

My own personal yardstick for absolute proof of OU is to start with a capacitor with a certain voltage across it
and end with either the same or more voltage across that cap or the same or more voltage in an identical cap.
If a load is powered then equal voltage in the cap is sufficient is no load then more voltage at the end is required
to show an external input.
This would show more potential energy stored after a "run" than there was before it, I think that would be indisputable proof.

Fact is when batteries and wave forms and complex calculations are concerned there can be error and argument.

Why not show more real stored potential energy after a run than before ? All it takes is a voltmeter.

Lawrence, can your system be configured to do that ? run from one cap and charge an identical cap ? With or without load ?

Using that method I can see that my solar panels are 100% OU, I start with a capacitor with 0 volts and in very short time I have 20 volts
across the capacitor without inputting anything into the system myself. Hard to beat that.

Cheers
   
img  AllPhase
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #118 on: 2012-08-22, 12:56:01 »
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Lawrence,  May I ask a question?

When that professor got 1 KW from your FLEET circuit, was that using
a small core toroid, like in your DIY kit?

Or was that using a much larger toroid core?

Thank you.

.
   
img  Paul-R
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #119 on: 2012-08-22, 15:14:20 »
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Quote from: Farmhand on 2012-08-22, 05:46:05
...for absolute proof of OU is to start with a capacitor with a certain voltage across it
and end with either the same or more voltage across that cap or the same or more
voltage in an identical cap.

Yes. The using of a load resistor plunged into a tank of oil and measuring the increase
in temperature is sound, but laborious. Your method is easier.

What does not work is looking at scope shots and trying to measure the area under
the curve of the spikes which may well be impossibly high. Also, energy acquired is
only useful in certain forms. It should be measured in those forms.

Another method would be to use a generator as a load and measure its electrical output.
But are there any gennies that would survive weird input voltage wave forms?
   
img  forcefield
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #120 on: 2012-08-22, 17:26:16 »
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If I wanted to measure the energy supplied by a battery, I would measure the voltage across the battery and the current through it.  Why are you measuring the combined transistor/LED current instead?
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #121 on: 2012-08-22, 17:56:31 »
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The absolute proof of OU must be much more indisputable. The extra-energy must be able to run a machine despite its losses, while providing a part of usable energy.

It must be a delimited and self-running system providing to the outside a significant and measurable quantity of energy, while not consuming energy from the outside.
After a certain time of functionning, chosen at will by the supervisor, the system is stopped and checked: if its state is strictly identical to its start state, meaning that no product was consumed, no potential, kinetic or thermal internal energy was extracted...  here we have over unity (presumably energy coming from an unknown source quasi-unextinguishable).
   
img  EMdevices
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #122 on: 2012-08-22, 19:15:57 »
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@tesung
Quote
In this particular case, I used 1 ohm for both input and output.  Please refer to my comments just before the circuit diagram

Do you refer to this sentence right above the diagram?

(The 10 and 100 ohm resistor combination can be replaced by a ONE ohm resistor at the 10 ohm resistor position)

I see that you used the word 'can',  so you might want to make sure you used a 1 ohm and not a 10 ohm resistor as shown on the diagram.   I think you used a 10 ohm resistor but got confused or forgot, since you ran so many tests at so many different times.  Very easy to get confused, I get confused all the time if I don't write things down.

My suggestion is to redo the test and make sure you improve the quantaization error, by amplifying the voltages taken across the resistors by a know amplification factor, than when you calculate the power, divide by that amplification factor.

@Farmhand,   if Tesung says it's a 1 ohm, and that's the case, he definitely is showing overunity, because the calculations seem sound to me, aside from my suggestion for improvement.

EM
   
img  Paul-R
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #123 on: 2012-08-22, 22:15:31 »
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Quote from: forcefield on 2012-08-22, 17:26:16
If I wanted to measure the energy supplied by a battery, I would measure the voltage across the battery and the current through it.

That is the energy in. No problem.

The problem is measuring the energy out because it is a series of spikes of uncertain voltage.
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: The FLEET DIY KIT « Reply #124 on: 2012-08-23, 09:51:35 »
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Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 14:24:52
Warning.  I shall start deleting religious posts in this thread from now on.

Quote from: ltseung888 on 2012-08-21, 07:39:41
... I am reproducing Divine Revelation 3 here.

Either there is a logical problem between the two posts or "divine" has not a religious signification while the dictionary says us it has.
Pardon my perplexity, but what do you mean by "divine" and why is Revelation 3 divine?
   
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