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Author Topic: The Chinese New Year Gift  (Read 39561 times)
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ltseung888, I have a measurement equipment, a professional experience in electronics and a concern for truth. You may send me a kit, I will honestly test it and give here public results.

@ltseung888

Did you miss my reply #21?
I would even send the kit back to you after testing.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's known that I'm uncompromising with the charlatans and the incompetent individuals, so you should consider that inversely, a positive test by me of your circuit would advocate in favor of a real recognition unlike a test made by a guy who has already claimed himself evidence of overunity outside of any reasonableness.

   
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@ltseung888

Did you miss my reply #21?
I would even send the kit back to you after testing.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's known that I'm uncompromising with the charlatans and the incompetent individuals, so you should consider that inversely, a positive test by me of your circuit would advocate in favor of a real recognition unlike a test made by a guy who has already claimed himself evidence of overunity outside of any reasonableness.



@exnihiloest

I shall be sending one of the oscilloscope-test-ready boards to poynt99 of this Forum.  He can send it to you and team for further testing afterwards.

Prof. Jones has connections to BYU and will be testing on behalf of other Free Energy Organizations.  I am familiar with his posts and the 8x claim since I was the one who sent him one of the first FLEET prototypes.  His 8x claim prototypes will be revived as I know exactly what is wrong and how to make it right.

Like everybody else (me included), he was working on a hit-or-miss mode.  It was like winning the lottery.  Now the correct tuning technique has been discovered.  Reproducing overunity devices is becoming a scientific process.

Please state the oscilloscopes (2?) in your possession and post your suggested test techniques here.  Save your $1,000.  That is not fair to you.  We have dozens of working OU boards.  30 of them are being triple tested and sent to top Universities.  It is like betting on the Australian Open after the finals match.  We already know the result.

I treat the discovery of "energy can be lead-out via electromagnetic resonance" as Divine Revelation no matter what the World thinks.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Before I comment on your procedure Lawrence, I wanted to see how well I could replicate your wave forms in a simulation. Here are the results. The voltages are taken from the same points indicated on your schematic. "S1" emulates the operation of an LED.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Lawrence,

Your proposed method seems to be ok so far, but there is one significant problem in the data you provided in that .xls file; the level for the battery current is very low, but you have used too high a setting (100mV/div) scale on the scope. This seems to be producing less than half a division on the scope, so this will produce very inaccurate results. You want to have at least 2 to 3 divisions peak-to peak on that trace before letting the oscilloscope sample it.

Please try it again, but with much more sensitivity on that channel. I would recommend the 10mV/div setting. You could also change the volts/div on the output scope to 50mV rather than 100mV/div you used.

Until you do this, the evidence for your COP 2.5 claim is shaky at best.
   
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Before I comment on your procedure Lawrence, I wanted to see how well I could replicate your wave forms in a simulation. Here are the results. The voltages are taken from the same points indicated on your schematic. "S1" emulates the operation of an LED.

@poynt99,

I think you are getting close.  Please do the following:

(1) Put a 2.7V 10F capacitor in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply.  Repeat your measurements.  With luck, you may detect OU.  I seldom have such luck.

(2) If OU were not detected, turn off DC Power.  Wait for all waveforms to disappear and reconnect Power for 30 seconds.

(3) Turn off the DC power supply or take out the battery.  The LED or your simulated circuit should still be ON.  The Waveforms on your scope should indicate so.  If you can display the frequency of the Output Voltage, you may see a change with occasional jumps.  If you have the LED, it will show sudden increase in brightness.  This should last for at least 2 minutes (minimum time for passing).  If the LED continues to be ON with diminished brightness for 20 minutes, your circuit may have a chance to demonstrate OU.

(4) Repeat your measurements - specially at the brightness peaks.  You have a good chance of catching OU.

(5) If you have DC Power Supply, you can vary the voltage from as low as 500mV to 1.5V.  You may catch OU at some point.

(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so.  Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.

Note the use of the capacitor.  The theory is that we are trying to match LCR resonance with the pulse switching of the transistor.  The high farad capacitor serves two purposes.  First is LCR oscillation.  Second is to store and let out the charge to drift along the frequency range to hunt for OU.  Lead-out Energy comes in at some point.  It is no long hit or miss like two years ago.

*** I just mailed out Board number 888 to Prof. Jones.  You may even be able to confirm OU before him if you can do the above.  Amen.

   
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« Last Edit: 2013-02-01, 10:17:32 by ltseung888 »
   
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@poynt99,

I think you are getting close.  Please do the following:

(1) Put a 2.7V 10F capacitor in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply.  Repeat your measurements.  With luck, you may detect OU.  I seldom have such luck.

(2) If OU were not detected, turn off DC Power.  Wait for all waveforms to disappear and reconnect Power for 30 seconds.

(3) Turn off the DC power supply or take out the battery.  The LED or your simulated circuit should still be ON.  The Waveforms on your scope should indicate so.  If you can display the frequency of the Output Voltage, you may see a change with occasional jumps.  If you have the LED, it will show sudden increase in brightness.  This should last for at least 2 minutes (minimum time for passing).  If the LED continues to be ON with diminished brightness for 20 minutes, your circuit may have a chance to demonstrate OU.

(4) Repeat your measurements - specially at the brightness peaks.  You have a good chance of catching OU.

(5) If you have DC Power Supply, you can vary the voltage from as low as 500mV to 1.5V.  You may catch OU at some point.

(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so.  Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.

Note the use of the capacitor.  The theory is that we are trying to match LCR resonance with the pulse switching of the transistor.  The high farad capacitor serves two purposes.  First is LCR oscillation.  Second is to store and let out the charge to drift along the frequency range to hunt for OU.  Lead-out Energy comes in at some point.  It is no long hit or miss like two years ago.

*** I just mailed out Board number 888 to Prof. Jones.  You may even be able to confirm OU before him if you can do the above.  Amen.


A well made standard joule thief with a 10f cap would run an LED bright for 20 minute's

Quote:-(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so.  Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.

Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?

It is good to see you are sending poynt99 a test unit-he will give you the run down on what your system is doing,and how well it dose it.
He is very carful and accurate with his testing.
   
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Lawrence,

Your proposed method seems to be ok so far, but there is one significant problem in the data you provided in that .xls file; the level for the battery current is very low, but you have used too high a setting (100mV/div) scale on the scope. This seems to be producing less than half a division on the scope, so this will produce very inaccurate results. You want to have at least 2 to 3 divisions peak-to peak on that trace before letting the oscilloscope sample it.

Please try it again, but with much more sensitivity on that channel. I would recommend the 10mV/div setting. You could also change the volts/div on the output scope to 50mV rather than 100mV/div you used.

Until you do this, the evidence for your COP 2.5 claim is shaky at best.

@poynt99,

Here are the results for a similar prototype with COP = 2.6.  The two BMP files used different scaling but the Input Current curve was magnified to show the fluctuation.  In reality, we have the CSV file which contained the sampled values.  We could use EXcel to do any type of analysis or display.
   
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A well made standard joule thief with a 10f cap would run an LED bright for 20 minute's

Quote:-(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so.  Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.

Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?

Send poynt99 a test unit-he will give you the run down on what your system is doing,and how well it dose it.
He is very carful and accurate with his testing.
This shouldnt be a problem for you if your circuit is indeed OU.

@Tinman,

Trust the oscilloscope analysis.  Poynt99 has a 4 channel scope that can do the display and analysis.  He will receive a triple tested board at the Second batch towards the end of Feb.  Sorry, the first batch of 30 boards have been allocated to top Universities.

If he has a 2.7V 10F capacitor and a well built JT similar to mine, he could get the LEDs to light for 20 minutes as you commented.  He can then do the analysis without my board.  He can confirm OU without my board!!!  That can happen much earlier than end of Feb.

*** One experiment that has been done is to have hundreds of LEDs powered through the FLEET board with DC Power supply ON for 10 seconds and OFF for 2 minutes.  The LEDs appeared to have the same brightness.  The saving in electricity bill greatly impressed one of the supporters...  More on that later.  Confirm OU first.

Lighting the LEDs is NOT the issue here.  The issue is confirming OU from the DSO analysis....
   
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Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?
...

When a circuit working at some frequency is alleged to recharge its power source, each period of the signal being repeated identically, this means that energy must be sequentially consumed and provided in a single signal period.
Therefore we don't need supercap or battery. We just need a capacitor whose the value is enough to smooth the current over few periods.
From the viewpoint of the capacitor, the powered circuit is viewed as a resistance either positive when the capacitor provides current, or negative when the circuit recharges the capacitor. The time constant being RC and to smooth the current needing an integration over few periods that we may choose by excess a hundred periods, then a capacitor C=100*T/R must perfectly work, T being the period of the frequency.
Suppose the working frequency is 10 Khz, the required voltage 10v and the current 0.1A, R=10/0.1=100ohm, T=10-4 so C=100*10-4/100=100µF.
The need to use supercap or battery instead of well sized capacitors to power alleged self-charging devices is the sign of mistakes or scams.

   
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@Tinman,

Trust the oscilloscope analysis. 

The issue is confirming OU from the DSO analysis....

I don't believe that this convinces people.

In my view, the best method is to start with batteries with a known level of charge
and to determine the level of charge of these batteries after the run.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Lawrence.

I don't see how the capacitor makes any difference in the circuit at all, other than smoothing out any ripple voltage across the battery. Of course the circuit will run on the capacitor until it drains...what is the point of that?

With reference to my scope voltage or power traces, what is missing?
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Lawrence,

Before you send me one of your boards, please post your measurements on it so we can compare. Include the .xls file.

Thanks.
   
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I don't believe that this convinces people.

In my view, the best method is to start with batteries with a known level of charge
and to determine the level of charge of these batteries after the run.

I agree to an extent. I think a multitude of methods need to be considered. I have built many passive networks, circuits etc, which drastically change their ideal operational point as a capacitor fills, battery voltage changes and so on. When batteries are involved photochemistry becomes involved. They may behave very differently based on rate of charge, potential applied, chemical makeup of the battery itself, loss due to charging process (if battery is 80% at charging and there is a 10 percent gain on input, there is still a rundown situation). Measurement is not my specialty, although I am not ignorant of what should be done. However I do not see a mechanism for gain in this circuit, but we shall see soon enough.
   
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Lawrence.

I don't see how the capacitor makes any difference in the circuit at all, other than smoothing out any ripple voltage across the battery. Of course the circuit will run on the capacitor until it drains...what is the point of that?

With reference to my scope voltage or power traces, what is missing?

@poynt99,

Please check the TK video on how a capacitor changed the whole characteristics of a JT.  (reply 206)

http://www.overunity.com/12686/is-joule-thief-circuit-gets-overunity/msg349617/#msg349617

Do the experiment with the capacitor.  TK did not use a super cap but he got resonance also....  TK did not like my using the term resonance - so I used Tseung Resonance.  There are many ways to skin a cat.  Using a super cap is one of them....  The issue here is to verify and confirm OU with oscilloscopes.  Just do the expeiment and see the strange results.

You can also use the TK technique with small CAP and confirm OU at "oscillation mode" with your 4 channel Scope.  TK did not have such Scopes.

The full picture, video, results of every test (at least triple) will be posted here before the board is shipped to you.  Just be patient.  Your board is being built in Shenzhen by people with soldering experience.

Your scope pictures are fine.  But add the capacitor and the Input Current will be lower and the Output Current will be higher at some conditions.  Hunt for OU then.  Do you have a DC power supply?  I used less than 1.0V on the last post to get a higher COP.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Lawrence,

TK was putting a 70nF cap across the 1k base resistor, not across the battery. They are two quite different things.
   
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I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.

If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs  to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?

If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal    asis

I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be  an elephant in this room
   
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Lawrence,

TK was putting a 70nF cap across the 1k base resistor, not across the battery. They are two quite different things.

@poynt99,

The point I was trying to make is - adding a capacitor does make a difference.  See the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdzXf6H1PiY&feature=youtu.be

If you want to catch OU with the technique I descibed, use a capacitor...
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.

If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs  to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?

If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal    asis

I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be  an elephant in this room

I find this bit of Truth totally intoxicating while I have my bowl of chile and Carte blanche. Are the plates of the capacitor used equally parallel at all junctions of discharge?

If done correctly a C.O.P. of .01 can be of immense use.


---------------------------
   
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I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.

I agree 100% with you, Gridbias.
A claim of output power>input should not even be made without sefrunning mode, it's a dishonnest claim from pretentious ignorants, or from egocentric people for self-flatering or from scammers to make the buzz and earn money.

Quote
...
Am I missing something important?

If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal    asis

I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be  an elephant in this room

or a troll.
And a troll should be treated as a troll. It's disappointing to see that good people here (seem apparently) pay the same attention to a troll and his pseudo-scientific gibberish, than to any else work from worth experimenters, while they should send such people back to their nets.

   
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I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.

If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs  to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?

If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal    asis

I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be  an elephant in this room

You've basically summed up what most of us think of Tseung's so-called Chinese New Year Gift!

Can't wait to see what special pressy Tseung will be giving the world next year?  C.C
« Last Edit: 2013-02-03, 10:33:07 by Farrah Day »
   
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It's turtles all the way down
I also agree with Gridbias post #41, Exn, and Farrah.

There is indeed a large elephant in the room and he has not been shown the door out of undue kindness I suppose.

Grandiose claims and megalo-maniacal delusions do not mix well with good solid science.

I categorize this stuff under "vaporware".

A self runner would end all discussions of misinterpreted measurement.  O0

A looped circuit is easy to configure, (see: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=604.msg25878) especially in the case of the humble blocking oscillator, which has been around nearly since the invention of the vacuum tube, but lately has been re-labelled as an invention of the divine master.

Apparently all the reputable folk that have designed instruments that use blocking oscillators such as Tektronics and others have missed this "Tseung Resonance" in their testing .  ;)

Nevermind how long you can light a LED to some arbitrary brightness level, this is not solid measurement.

I hope Poynt's test results can put this thing to bed one way or another without wasting too much of his time.
« Last Edit: 2013-02-03, 16:49:04 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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I find this bit of Truth totally intoxicating while I have my bowl of chile and Carte blanche. Are the plates of the capacitor used equally parallel at all junctions of discharge?

If done correctly a C.O.P. of .01 can be of immense use.

.01 how many times per second?
My guess is that you have some kind of asymetric ring of l/c in this thought experiment .

my mind game is to imagine the poles as wind and somehow  the wind  spins a turbine which will also develop its own poles as it winds up.

plesase excuse me as i have just had extensive surgery and am in a morphine haze
In no way would i discourage any body from experimenting ,its just that guys like poynt put so much time into what becomes a distraction and the goal posts are moved to where they are defending. Rather than asking the obvious .

I have always been fascinated with this simple one .
take a transformer mains to 9v or so, put the cro on the mains side and a switch shorting the 9v winding

throw the switch and see the small but repeatable  energy release .

Im sure this must have been analysed  to pieces before , i just cant remember ,or wont remember , perhaps wont accept the conclusion
gotta lay down
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Quote
My guess is that you have some kind of asymetric ring of l/c in this thought experiment
Yes. But this is where the ring fetish starts. That is why I went to the Farnsworth Multipactor linear model. Easier to modify.

Quote
plesase excuse me as i have just had extensive surgery and am in a morphine haze
Ah yes. It is the dreams that mature you.


---------------------------
   
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@poynt99,

The target date when I receive the oscilloscope-test-ready boards from Shenzhen is Feb 22.  After receiving them, I shall do the triple checks and posts all results here.  Please email me the address you would like me to mail the board to.

Plan on getting the board for testing towards the end of Feb or beginning of March.  Please use your 4 Channle Tek Scope to test the board as shipped.  See if your results are compariable with mine.  You can then do whatever you like with the board.  You are welcome to replicate or pass it to other Forum members to do further tests.

The tasks at hand are now defined:
(1) Triple test the oscilloscope-test-ready board to confirm overunity in Shenzhen and Hong Kong.
(2) Post the test procedures, photos, videos, xls files etc.
(3) Ship to Poynt99 for verification and confirmation tests.

May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World.
   
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