Interesting Electric Motor

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2024-05-01, 21:27:18
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Author Topic: Interesting Electric Motor (Read 9010 times)

Peterae	Interesting Electric Motor « on: 2014-12-30, 17:55:53 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	So what do you guys think of this motor. Robert33 claims it not to be faked, and puts forward the explanation that it's the ball bearings heating up and deforming thus creating rotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb2GUiV8Bf0 No armature is needed just 2 bearings and a rod or tube works also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1xnQ9gWy1o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwABP9oARXU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7LOF1GZpdo

NerzhDishual	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #1 on: 2014-12-30, 21:03:02 »
Group: Guest	It is not faked, just Youtube "ball bearing motor". I have, once, reproduced the gizmo with a 12 volts DC battery but I do not like to short circuit my batteries. The explanations, as usual are very controversial... Eric Dollard about this motor: Part 4 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lqMiZPO9TM (after 3min 40sec)

BEP	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #2 on: 2014-12-30, 23:33:41 »
Group: Guest	These motors are quite real and don't require unconventional physics explanations. A little researching will show that motor and generator manufacturers make great efforts to avoid this effect. Although, they are more worried about the reciprocal effect. This is where rotation of a simple shaft, or one with a rotor on it, can induce a current from one bearing to the one on the other end. This current can be so large (very small voltages) that the bearings suffer fluting, spalling, frosting and pitting. Basically, it is a bastardized form of Lorentz motor or homopolar motor. I've seen 5,000 lb. generators seize and go into self-destruct mode because of it.

Peterae	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #3 on: 2014-12-31, 09:17:46 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	It would be an easy test to bypass the bearings by using a metal brush against the rod each end for power. I am certainly finding it hard to believe that it is the bearing being deformed that causes rotation. I suppose it would be interesting to see if his version develops an induced current across the bearings when driven by a motor.

TinMan	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #4 on: 2014-12-31, 12:29:14 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2014-12-30, 23:33:41 These motors are quite real and don't require unconventional physics explanations. A little researching will show that motor and generator manufacturers make great efforts to avoid this effect. Although, they are more worried about the reciprocal effect. This is where rotation of a simple shaft, or one with a rotor on it, can induce a current from one bearing to the one on the other end. This current can be so large (very small voltages) that the bearings suffer fluting, spalling, frosting and pitting. Basically, it is a bastardized form of Lorentz motor or homopolar motor. I've seen 5,000 lb. generators seize and go into self-destruct mode because of it. Yes WW,the lorentz force is behind the rotation. I done some serious testing with this bearing motor setup some time ago,as i didnt believe it was the heat from the large current that was deforming the balls in the bearing race that was the cause of rotation.What i found was a very large and extreemly strong magnetic field at each bearing race. If any of you build one,place your compass virtical so as it is face to face with one of the bearings,and then watch what happens to the neddle on your compass. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Tommey Reed	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #5 on: 2014-12-31, 13:05:09 »
Group: Guest	Hi All, My opinion on this video is it's a Bruce Depalm N-Machine trick... Put enough amps in a motor and to can make it do just about anything, just another misleading video to fool the mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OklNRobJ9Sk At 0:45 seconds this is Depalma same motor trick... Sometimes something new, is coming from that past. Clearly that clown likes to put on a show, makes me wonder how many are fooled today..... Tom

BEP	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #6 on: 2014-12-31, 16:51:17 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2014-12-31, 09:17:46 It would be an easy test to bypass the bearings by using a metal brush against the rod each end for power. I am certainly finding it hard to believe that it is the bearing being deformed that causes rotation. I suppose it would be interesting to see if his version develops an induced current across the bearings when driven by a motor. I'm not sure how well that would work. The problem in that experiment may be supplying the required high density magnetic field. One way may be to center the axle in a polyphase stator. Then drive that stator as if it had the normal rotor installed. I know from other experiments that I an make a pipe spin at incredible velocity with that setup. I don't recall if I checked for voltage induced between pipe ends or not. Even if I did the result would probably be very low potential. BTW, I have serious doubts about the bearings used being part of the cause, also. Ball/roller bearings aren't required. I did the same thing with a piece of copper rod with the ends milled to a point and plated with silver. The points were supported by U.S. pennies (the original all-copper ones) having a center punch mark in the center. It was very hard to get the thing started before the ends welded

muDped	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #7 on: 2015-01-01, 05:47:24 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	This discussion has rung a distant 'bell' from long ago and I'm unable to remember all of the details. For those who may have experimented with this phenom: - will the rotor spin in both directions with a start or is it just one direction? - is the effect dependent upon DC current flow or does it happen with AC current flow too? Magnetic Vortex perhaps? --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

Peterae	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #8 on: 2015-01-01, 07:21:12 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Hi Mud Quote - will the rotor spin in both directions with a start or is it just one direction? It spins in either direction and depends on which way it is flicked when started. Quote - is the effect dependent upon DC current flow or does it happen with AC current flow too? Works with AC & DC Peter

leo48	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #9 on: 2015-01-01, 10:23:18 »
Newbie Posts: 9	This engine was discovered by Stefan Marinov ... leo

T-1000	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #10 on: 2015-01-01, 12:10:37 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	For this type of motor and generator there was things in past with Bruce DePalma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AHomopolar_generator#Bruce_DePalma - http://www.classicenergyvideos.com/depalmanmachine3.wmv (the demo is on 7:00) Originally it was developed by Faraday... Happy New Year everyone! « Last Edit: 2015-01-01, 12:41:36 by T-1000 »

Grumage	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #11 on: 2015-01-01, 13:39:26 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2739	Quote from: leo48 on 2015-01-01, 10:23:18 This engine was discovered by Stefan Marinov ... leo Dear leo. You beat me to it!! I had thought that Marinov motor was faily common knowledge. However, taking into consideration what dear WaveWatcher has posted earlier, re the bearings not being the MO for the rotation. It begs the simple question, what is the force that is acting against the Rotor?? Our own weak magnetic field that surrounds us? Please don't be harsh with me, I am not as erudite as some members here, a simple explanation will do. Cheers Grum. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

wattsup	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #12 on: 2015-01-01, 16:55:15 »
Hero Member Posts: 520	@all For me, those videos are just great to show pure spin conveyance. If you look at my last youtube......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh8Qzru67NM&list=UUvoBABQST1BpzmvtS-rdBfQ It is showing copper wire kicking and returning at each pulse. It kicks and comes back because the wire is supported on both ends and this just lets it kick and returns with the spring action of the wire. This is the same thing in the bearings. The outer secured ring of the bearing produces the kick through the bearings to move the center ring of the bearing in one direction and since the bearings are round, the inertia of the kick prevents it from returning, unlike how it returned with the fixed copper wire. Each bearing has maybe 8 or more ball bearings that from each end will provide 16 points of in tandem rotation that together create the rotation of the shaft although there is very little torque since the everything is happening close to the shaft where you cannot develop any leverage. If you study the physics of such a physical kick, you may soon realize that linear high speed flowing electrons cannot do this. Only a physical spinning of the copper atom cores themselves can create such a movement. The electricity used to produce this effect was generated by a huge spinning generator in a far away power plant. That spin is conveyed to your home where it reaches the bearings where it generates new spin. Spin engenders spin. This effect could be very useful to produce rotary contacts that would not require any standard electric motor to turn it. wattsup --------------------------- http://etherimpress.com

leo48	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #13 on: 2015-01-01, 19:39:53 »
Newbie Posts: 9	In each ball bearing sliding the current between the rings and balls is a small expansion that drives to rotate the shaft only if it is already in motion otherwise dilation acts similarly and there is no beginning of rotational motion. Leo

BEP	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #14 on: 2015-01-01, 20:42:27 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: EMdevices on 2015-01-01, 16:44:42 If the axle is magnetized, it may appear to be a Homopolar motor, however, they start on their own and this one doesn't. Moreover, the torque developed at one end cancels that at the other end. Also this one also works with AC currents. The axle has a magnetic field because it is also the conductor. Apply the Laplace force using the moving point charges (at electron drift velocities) with no spin start and there is no rotational force on the axle. With spin start in one direction and the initial spin causes the Laplace force to kick in adding to the initial spin - at electron drift velocities the point charge motion becomes a spiral motion within the axle's magnetic field. Do the same with a spin start in the other direction for the same result. DC, AC or either half of the AC applied electric field the spiral motion of the drift current always has the Laplace force in addition. Remember, the direction of a moving point charge within a magnetic field to produce radial acceleration need not be exactly perpendicular to both E & B. It can be any relative angle. You just get more acceleration when it is perpendicular to both E & B.

Chef	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #15 on: 2015-01-02, 20:51:57 »
Jr. Member Posts: 69	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2015-01-01, 20:42:27 The axle has a magnetic field because it is also the conductor. Apply the Laplace force using the moving point charges (at electron drift velocities) with no spin start and there is no rotational force on the axle. With spin start in one direction and the initial spin causes the Laplace force to kick in adding to the initial spin - at electron drift velocities the point charge motion becomes a spiral motion within the axle's magnetic field. Do the same with a spin start in the other direction for the same result. DC, AC or either half of the AC applied electric field the spiral motion of the drift current always has the Laplace force in addition. Remember, the direction of a moving point charge within a magnetic field to produce radial acceleration need not be exactly perpendicular to both E & B. It can be any relative angle. You just get more acceleration when it is perpendicular to both E & B. I'm having hard time to understand some part of your explanation. You saying a simple copper rod will also accelerate from an initial speed if low voltage DC current applied ( no bearings, drilled point supports). I don't see any external magnetic fields in these videos (except the natural one), and I'm guessing you didn't used one in your experiment also. Is the rod accelerating against the supporting points, or against his own magnetic field? --------------------------- "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

BEP	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #16 on: 2015-01-03, 02:18:08 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Chef on 2015-01-02, 20:51:57 I'm having hard time to understand some part of your explanation. You saying a simple copper rod will also accelerate from an initial speed if low voltage DC current applied ( no bearings, drilled point supports). I don't see any external magnetic fields in these videos (except the natural one), and I'm guessing you didn't used one in your experiment also. Is the rod accelerating against the supporting points, or against his own magnetic field? No external magnetic field is required. The rod has a magnetic field since it is also a conductor. The problem understanding how this plays a part is because of the difference between the magnetic field of a current carrying conductor and that of a magnet. Huge difference. The rod is accelerating only because the starting spin (from the hand of the presenter) causes current flow to be at near right angles to both E & B. The result of this is angular acceleration. Without a starting manual spin the current flow is perpendicular to B but parallel to E. The result of this no angular acceleration.

Chef	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #17 on: 2015-01-03, 10:15:12 »
Jr. Member Posts: 69	The part why the initial speed necessary is understandable. You missed to answer my question: Is this rod accelerating against what? --------------------------- "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

szaxx	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #18 on: 2015-01-03, 12:47:12 »
Sr. Member Posts: 276	It needs a kick start to work, why does that sounds familiar?

T-1000	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #19 on: 2015-01-03, 12:59:05 »
Sr. Member Posts: 375	When strong current is applied to this setup there is also Earth magnetic field might get involved. It is too weak for starting turn of shaft but might be just enough to continue turning in interaction between current on shaft and Earth magnetic poles. And this reminds me story of Hendershot motor... http://revolution-green.com/hendershot-fuel-less-generator-fact-fiction/ Cheers!

Peterae	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #20 on: 2015-01-03, 13:51:12 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Apparently when using larger diameter tubes & bearings it has been known to self start. Cant find the quote but stumbled on that comment a few days ago somewhere.

Chef	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #21 on: 2015-01-05, 17:20:19 »
Jr. Member Posts: 69	I find it hard to believe it could start it on his own, and in the same time it will accelerate in either direction when initial spin is applied to the rotor. These bearings motors are known for long, as I know there are plausible theory's on how it works. It is possible to do calculations on torque (using today's electromagnetic theory), etc.., prior experimenting, and the result will match the reality. The bearings are necessary, and the explanation involves them deeply in the generation of the additive torque. As WW mentioned it worked without the bearings,I got very curios and made today a test rig. I used 4mm diameter Tungsten rod, with a small metal "flywheel". I made 45 degree angles on both ends of the rod, and balled up the points with my TIG welder. I got two near perfect half ball on both sides. I drilled two bolts in the ends a little to make the holding part of "bearing". Installed everything in a wood platform. Sadly it didn't work. I tried with 12v and 6v (high current capable battery). The tips of the tungsten are looking well after 20-30 minute on-off testing, tolerating the heat very well. I could try different materials for the rod, but to be honest I feel stupid when I think about what am I doing in this experiment, and what result I'm aiming for. Can it be true? (acceleration without bearing) Poynt where are you? Tell us what's happening here! WW Could you please tell us more about your the bearing less "bearing motor" experiment? « Last Edit: 2015-01-05, 20:07:41 by Chef » --------------------------- "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Peterae	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #22 on: 2015-01-05, 17:43:10 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Quote Can it be true? LOL Yeah that's why i flagged it as interesting if it's true. I google self starting ball bearing motor and the first thing i found was this http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=54012&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D54012 Quote The electrical characteristics of the ball bearing electric motor are studied for applied steady currents ranging from 43.5 to 70.15 A. It is found that the ball bearing behaves like a motor when it starts self-rotating meaning that the shaft and inner race of the pair of the ball bearing system start rotating by themselves without the help of any external agent, but with a small efficiency at high currents. During self-rotation the motor's counterelectromotive force depends on the angular velocity of the shaft and inner race. The ball bearing's behavior at low currents is also explained when it is not self-rotating, (i.e. rotating with the help of a conventional motor). In the latter case, the motor does not behave like a generator. A theory, based on the electromagnetic interactions developed within each ball, is proposed to explain the action of the ball bearing as a motor. These interactions are caused by the ball's primary currents and magnetic fields and the effects of the induced magnetic field from the current of the motor's shaft

Chef	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #23 on: 2015-01-05, 18:29:31 »
Jr. Member Posts: 69	Quote from: Peterae on 2015-01-05, 17:43:10 LOL Yeah that's why i flagged it as interesting if it's true. I google self starting ball bearing motor and the first thing i found was this http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=54012&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D54012 I meant this question for the "bearing less" version, not for the self starting. I modded the post also. --------------------------- "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Peterae	Re: Interesting Electric Motor « Reply #24 on: 2015-01-05, 20:23:45 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3867	Ah OK Chef Sorry i misunderstood

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