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Author Topic: MMG - a high ohm motor with potential  (Read 29484 times)

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So the other is in reverse to make them stick and hold the cotton.

I was right about equilibrium O0

But also it seems to be right that it does move by magnetism as the equilibrium is right, with mine anyway.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

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Sorry folks but I feel the need to put my two-cents worth in on this magnet spinning on a string, since I first heard of it in the mid-late 90's and tried it.

The voice-coil HD magnets are quadrapole, at least the later ones.

Long edge view:

NORTH      |        SOUTH
-----------------------------------
SOUTH      |        NORTH

I had one spinning quite well back then, until I found it wouldn't work unless several electrical devices were turned ON in the room and nearby rooms. The more current being drawn the better. The closer to the center of the room the better.

My guess was forcing two of these magnets together (repelling) created a powerful and tightly polarized radial field between them. That field would then make the magnets act like a compass placed inside an empty motor stator.

I couldn't believe the arrangement would just spin for that length from the string untwisting so I had to disprove my thoughts on possible effects from the Earth's mag field. I did.

Disappointing, at first but I didn't have to waste more time on it.

If one can prove the effect is related to the Earth's field, I'm anxious to see my analysis nullified.

Edit>> BTW, it worked just as well using a good quality fishing lure swivel.
   

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Sorry folks but I feel the need to put my two-cents worth in on this magnet spinning on a string, since I first heard of it in the mid-late 90's and tried it.

The voice-coil HD magnets are quadrapole, at least the later ones.

Long edge view:

NORTH      |        SOUTH
-----------------------------------
SOUTH      |        NORTH

I had one spinning quite well back then, until I found it wouldn't work unless several electrical devices were turned ON in the room and nearby rooms. The more current being drawn the better. The closer to the center of the room the better.

My guess was forcing two of these magnets together (repelling) created a powerful and tightly polarized radial field between them. That field would then make the magnets act like a compass placed inside an empty motor stator.

I couldn't believe the arrangement would just spin for that length from the string untwisting so I had to disprove my thoughts on possible effects from the Earth's mag field. I did.

Disappointing, at first but I didn't have to waste more time on it.

If one can prove the effect is related to the Earth's field, I'm anxious to see my analysis nullified.

Edit>> BTW, it worked just as well using a good quality fishing lure swivel.


It works outside, mountainside to be right, I also thought of the electric field and placed it outside

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Sorry folks but I feel the need to put my two-cents worth in on this magnet spinning on a string, since I first heard of it in the mid-late 90's and tried it.

The voice-coil HD magnets are quadrapole, at least the later ones.

Long edge view:

NORTH      |        SOUTH
-----------------------------------
SOUTH      |        NORTH

I had one spinning quite well back then, until I found it wouldn't work unless several electrical devices were turned ON in the room and nearby rooms. The more current being drawn the better. The closer to the center of the room the better.

My guess was forcing two of these magnets together (repelling) created a powerful and tightly polarized radial field between them. That field would then make the magnets act like a compass placed inside an empty motor stator.

I couldn't believe the arrangement would just spin for that length from the string untwisting so I had to disprove my thoughts on possible effects from the Earth's mag field. I did.

Disappointing, at first but I didn't have to waste more time on it.

If one can prove the effect is related to the Earth's field, I'm anxious to see my analysis nullified.

Edit>> BTW, it worked just as well using a good quality fishing lure swivel.

That's interesting, especially the working with the swivel. That means, for you, the rotating force must be fairly strong to overcome the friction in the swivel. I thought it might be due to the fields from house wiring too...

But Centraflow gets it to work outside.... so ??

Anyhow, here's my video. My results seem to indicate that it's the twist in the thread that does it. But perhaps it stops because the forces from a wound-up twist in the thread and the "mystery" spinning force cancel and it comes to rest. I'll have to see if I can arrange a nice low-friction bearing, maybe using the bearing set from the HDD I took apart for the magnets. It would be neat to see it keep on spinning, with the fishing line not being twisted as it goes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehva-GfWdXA
   
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Nope. Using the hard drive's arm bearing as the top pivot, and the 10 lb test monofilament fishing line, the thing still just does the normal torsion pendulum thing, a few turns in one direction and then reversing for a few turns, back and forth until it damps out,  and it can't overcome the friction in the bearing to keep going in one direction (if it even wants to do that.) I'm finding it a little hard to imagine that even a "good" fishing swivel would have less friction than this bearing, but maybe.

 :'(

ETA: Now I've tried it with an even better bearing, cleaned out with MEK and blown out with compressed air, so that it _definitely_ will turn with only a few twists of the fishing line. Still no joy... no continuous rotation, no bias to turn CCW, just an ordinary torsion pendulum with a slight bias to orient at right angles to the Earth's local N-S line. If I give it a good hard starting spin, it turns the bearing and thus relieves the twist in the line, so it comes to a stop fairly quickly since no twist is stored in the line due to the bearing spinning.

 >:( :-[
   
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This actually fully relates to the MMG motor.
Guess where the magnets came from for the rotor !!!  :D

There are normally 2 thicknesses of these 'bowel' magnets in HDD's and 2 of them per drive. One type is much thicker than the other.
I used a thin type for the rotor. The magnet is released from its metal housing with a sharp tap of a flatblade screwdriver and hammer. Then, placed between pliers, crushed to the right dimensions of magnet size needed ( x4 for a 4 magnet rotor).
Weirdly, for magnets, they can take that bang with the hammer and then the crushing with pliers with no magnetic detriment.
They don't like sticking to a soldering iron though, lol, releasing their magnetic equivalent of magic smoke in under a minute.

I have a couple of drives left that were intended to be spares, but are only 4.3Gb and such. Will set about dismembering them and try this spinning malarky out.
It should be 100% a case of the string unwinding.
Also, in one of Ed's videos, he has a white ball with his name and the date, spinning above a Levitron 'World stage'. It seems to spin fast and then slow within each revolution as it goes....has to be from a mechanical input to result in a faster spin after 12 minutes ? (waving a hand left and right, or from above, with a magnet held in it).
if not, we need to find a semi-levitated way of testing without string.

Btw, this made me smile, because of the weird anti-clockwise spin that a rotor seemed to do on its own a while ago. It's one of my Bench posts. Seemed to spin when I had my hand above it holding a magnet as still as could be and should, 100% be involuntary muscle movements. But, it would rotate at the same speed and in the same direction each time tried.
This one: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2758.0


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Well mine is at dead stop, sooooooooooo  I put my hand under the magnet and lifted straight upwards and guess what!!  the cotton wound itself up, the magnetic force and the windup were in equilibrium as I thought, and that is why it stopped.

So thinking about this a little more, I think it is like the movement of the hand syndrome with magnetic rotors that we have all seen, but here it is the magnetic earth and the invisible to the eye movement of the magnets in a pendulum manner. Eventually as I have stated before, windup force to magnetic force become equal and it stops. The magnetic force is very weak just as in a compass, these magnets in this config: are a 360 degree NSNSNSNSNS and a small side movement will change from attraction to repulsion with the earths magnetic field ;)

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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If the cotton winds itself back up again, could a device be made that uses the effect ?
Sort of, that the magnet spins up to a good velocity, imparts charge to a coil and by the end of the run, imparts that energy to flip a relay on a weak spring. The relay moves a pin to disengage the cotton for it to coil back up. The spring brings the relay closed again, engages the pin and off the magnet spins again haha

Erm, well, maybe huh :)


---------------------------
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I don't think that the thread winding itself up after the magnet comes to rest and you unload it is actually showing what it seems to be showing. The thread is made of individual small fibers that are themselves twisted, so really you have two or even more layers of "twist" in there. It's a subtle problem. I think that the only way to be sure is to use something that has no twist to begin with, like monofilament fishing line or maybe even very fine copper magnet wire. The finest I've got on hand that is unused is #33, and I haven't tried it yet.
I can report completely negative results using the 10lb test line and a really good bearing at the top. It would be good to use finer line and a better bearing system but for the moment I can't do any better than the last test with the sensitive bearing.
   
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Second test with better bearing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfuRyLxRPDI

 :-[ :'(
   
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A pretty good bearing setup is to hot-glue the string to the head of a dry-wall screw then suspend the whole thing with a magnet holding the point of the screw.
You'll need to play with weight and screw-magnet holding strength but it has worked for other experiments I've done.

I haven't seen the same swivels in years. They were advertized as jeweled-bearing. There was no jewel  :(
   
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...but it does have a bearing on the outcome :)
Good idea with the screw and perhaps a ball magnet.

Levitated fully would seem a good route, not easy but would remove nearly all friction thoughts.
Have got a World Stage here, but it's broken. It was a gift and hasn't ever worked. Will take a look at it.


---------------------------
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A pretty good bearing setup is to hot-glue the string to the head of a dry-wall screw then suspend the whole thing with a magnet holding the point of the screw.
You'll need to play with weight and screw-magnet holding strength but it has worked for other experiments I've done.

I haven't seen the same swivels in years. They were advertized as jeweled-bearing. There was no jewel  :(

That's a good idea, and I'll try to do something later this evening. Also, a YT commenter suggested another good control experiment: suspend a non-magnet weight
by the thread and see if it rotates. In his case, he reported that it rotated identically to the suspended magnets.
   

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So have I. Unfortunately I also included a couple of control experiments along with my "replication". The video is being processed now and will be uploaded in an hour or so. I'll post a link when it's ready.

Noble 3d Printers LLC is located in Las Vegas, Nevada. It would be nice if we could get someone in the Southern Hemisphere at around the same latitude, but S instead of N, to do the same experiment with the same kind of sewing thread. (Do the manufacturers twist thread in the opposite direction "down under"?) Oh well, just use Chinese thread. Does the magnet stack spin in the opposite direction in Australia?

Nice test Tk. I'll try tomorrow night. I'm further south than brad. Are you on a ground floor?
   
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Thanks, yes, ground floor, about 29.5 degrees N latitude, and about 162 meters above sea level.  Las Vegas NV is further north at about 36 degrees N latitude.

I haven't yet tried the magnetic pivot bearing with an untwisted fiber like a thin wire or a bit of light monofilament fishing line.

It would also be interesting to try the non-magnet control test, with thread, that has been suggested.
   
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@Centraflow
Quote
So thinking about this a little more, I think it is like the movement of the hand syndrome with magnetic rotors that we have all seen, but here it is the magnetic earth and the invisible to the eye movement of the magnets in a pendulum manner.

This may be the case, on another note I often use two pieces of bent coat hanger wire to dowse for buried lines. It still bothers me as an Engineer that I'm very near 100% accurate at this and it has never steered me wrong. I keep telling myself this should not work and there is no reasonable explanation I can grasp that comes to mind... but it always works.

The alter ego to everyone saying these effects are just our body/mind unconsciously reacting to external forces obviously did not think to consider why our body does this and more important how?. It would seem to me we (our mind and body) already know something we are not willing to accept... very strange.

Edit:
I had a strange thought a few months ago, now if dowsing works and I know as a fact it does then my mind/body is interacting with the external environment in ways I myself cannot perceive. If this is true then using modern electronics I might be able to amplify these minute changes by let's say 10,000 times using my mind/body as an integral part of the detector. Now one has to wonder what does our subconscious know that we do not?, for instance:
Could we read through a patent or newspaper and determine what is true and what is not, what is important?
Could we read through the stocks and just pick the winners?
Could we track down objects or people as easy as we follow a compass?

I do not know but damn I would sure like to find out because as I said there is something very strange going on here.

AC
« Last Edit: 2015-02-19, 15:59:43 by Allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   

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@Centraflow
This may be the case, on another note I often use two pieces of bent coat hanger wire to dowse for buried lines. It still bothers me as an Engineer that I'm very near 100% accurate at this and it has never steered me wrong. I keep telling myself this should not work and there is no reasonable explanation I can grasp that comes to mind... but it always works.

The alter ego to everyone saying these effects are just our body/mind unconsciously reacting to external forces obviously did not think to consider why our body does this and more important how?. It would seem to me we (our mind and body) already know something we are not willing to accept... very strange.

AC

Love the post, a coat hanger :D ;D

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Hey it's not so odd, the spinning magnets can be approached with an open mind in a similar way, or any device with possible OU considerations. Never so closed that a crowbar is needed to explore a 'maybe'. The coathangers are a prime example :)
If they don't work, they can always be snipped up to form coil core material !

Myself, I used to have what I called the 'finding stone' lol. It was a small stone that came from a stone circle in Wales, UK.
I'd lose something and grab the finding stone. it fitted in the hand well and i'd simply ask it where the object was. Then i'd walk to exactly where it would be ! Daft huh, yet worked time after time. I had no problem with it, couldn't find the things I was looking for anyway so why not. As such punchlines go, it was to have been brought to the USA but I couldn't find it  C.C  

To my understanding, nurture, nature and faith are included. You've seen it work, so it'll work again. The mechanism might not be known and if reputation or publishing findings aren't factors, sometimes who cares how it works.
Also, and something seemingly important, the event has never to be for personal financial or ego gain. It won't work.


---------------------------
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Dear All.

I started my working career with the Wrexham and East Denbighshire Water Company as a fully indentured electrical apprentice. The companies policy was that all apprentices must have at least a small working knowledge of all the other departments functions.

Whilst under the wing of the distribution dep't we were shown how to use Dowsing rods in order to find the run of AC ( Asbestos Concrete ) mains and Terracotta pipes. Very unsophisticated, they consisted of two fence wire rods, one 3 inches longer than the other and bent at right angles to fit the hands. This was back in the days before the now sophisticated pipe finders were in vogue and of course could not be used to follow non metallic pipes !!

The department also had a single " special " dowsing rod set that carried a number of different material samples one could pull via springs to the handle, in essence guaranteeing you would be looking for say a Lead service and not a Copper one !!

Needless to say I became a " Dab hand " at this, discovering that if I thought about what I wanted to find under the ground, I would indeed find it ! I was an avid collector of old Bottles back then and used the thought, Old whole bottles to great advantage.

As for coat hangers ? Yes, that works just as well!!  ;)

Cheers Grum.

PS. Sorry, I got really caught up there. I just realised this is really off topic !!


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
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@Slider
Quote
To my understanding, nurture, nature and faith are included. You've seen it work, so it'll work again. The mechanism might not be known and if reputation or publishing findings aren't factors, sometimes who cares how it works.
Also, and something seemingly important, the event has never to be for personal financial or ego gain. It won't work.

My coat hangers seemed to work just fine for personal gain because I was too cheap to hire a line locator to find the irrigation lines scattered about my property, it nailed them down to within 8" I figure. I have come to believe the universe does not care about money, it is what it is and does what it does regardless of what we may believe.

If anyone here has not tried the coat hanger trick I suggest they do because it is uncanny how well it works. I just bend the wire into an "L" shape with the long end about a foot long and the short end about six inches which is held lightly in each hand. The long ends will cross each other when a line is below and you might want to look up as well because they cross under power lines every time.  Believe me when I say I know how this sounds but seeing is believing.

@Grumage
You posted while I was so this is an edit. Awesome story and it is kind of bizarre that something which works so well is basically unknown to the general public.


AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Hey I don't mind off topic :)
Especially when it's cold in the house and motor developments are on pause. It should be mid 40F's over the next few days though, so i'll be moving forward, with a heater at the side.

Have tried the dowsing myself..but..with 2 tubes from old BIC pens around the handle parts. It still worked and that in itself is weird, because it means our own muscles in the hands can't be doing the affecting.  
They will still cross, or at least move inwards markedly.
Quite fascinating how an official water company would not only practice dowsing, but teach people how to do it.


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Well i didn't think this video loaded up to youtube,as it was a rush job just before we left for vacation. It came back as an error occurred and was unable to complete upload-and when i get back from vacation,i see it is uploaded??. Anyway.i see Mark commented on it,so thought i would post the link here. Now,who can work out the energy needed to change the direction of the mass(magnet) and accelerate it in another direction lol. No hope-i know,but a fun little project anyway-->which i will be looking into further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYJHDSR25zo


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Sorry my wife reorganized our shared workshop. Still looking for my hdd mags !
   
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@TinMan - Of interest would be whether the duty cycle could be halved or quartered and still the magnet would swing about like that ?
Am thinking of a simple reed switch method inside the coil. As soon as the coil fires, the reed stops the coil again. Moving the reed away or nearer may allow for longer or shorter pulsing ?
Perhaps it can tie in with AC's double reed method of pulse shortening, where the difference between 2 reeds in series forms the pulse length.
It would be handy if the MagnaBounce could follow a path, perhaps some version of a Star of David type of traced pattern. As it did so, the magnet would fly past aircore pickup coils. Angling the magnets should allow for direction control ?
Quite the size of magnet looks like it can be used on that, for quite the amount of imparted pickup energy !




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Strange goings on today...I grabbed this 56F comparatively warm day to get some more motor testing in.

One build that had bugged me, has twin rotors on one bathroom tile. The remote rotor had always given trouble syncing up.
So some time was spent re-weighting and changing pieces of magnets (the 8mmx1mm neo's ordered still haven't arrived).
That motor is reed switch based, rather than electronic.

My 0.1F supercaps don't ever run a motor for more than an hour, when charged to 1.1V. That's been the baseline figure, something to try to get past.
This motor has now done that.
Off it went, the remote rotor sync'd up to a multiple of the powered rotor speed and they stayed in sync with each other...finally.
Midway through, my wife came back from shopping and while putting things away/chatting, the remote rotor lost sync. It seems that it pulled the other rotor to a stop. When a reed switch motor stops, a magnet will sit right on the reed, drawn by the metals. As such, the reed remains closed and draws down the voltage, acting as a short.
Only 0.362V was left on the cap when it was checked. Well, i started it up again, just wondering if it would start with the other rotor being at a stop. The other rotor began to spin and turn at exactly the same speed and in the same direction !
All has just ended now, some 2hrs 25minutes after beginning.
The 2 rotors stayed running at the same speed and in the same direction for nearly half an hour !

Here are the run figures, Time then Voltage
02.55 1.129V
03.00 1.093V
03.20 0.998V
03.25 0.976V
03.47 0.902V
03.55 0.883V - 246mV over 1hr
04.15 0.836V
04.25 0.813V
-- sync trouble at some point here
04.49 0.362V
04.55 0.349V
05.05 0.332V
05.15 0.313V

The run was part video documented, it shows the initial running and odd same direction re-sync.
Now to adjust the remote rotors coils to be better spaced and closer to the rotor.
Also, to add a 3rd rotor, to the right side of the other 2 and feed back in whatever that one can generate.

[youtube]P0dvOljmF94[/youtube]


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