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Author Topic: Charging Batteries and Capacitors with Radiant Electricity  (Read 70246 times)
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If you effectively do a transformer coupling to a power line then you are drawing power from the power line and you are stealing it.  I was not making reference to bypassing electrical meters.
Okay, then, what about telling the power companies to deliver power through shielded co-ax cables, thus eliminating the legally questionable opinion they take that their regularly radiating 50/60 Hz power into the environment is inconsequential?  Placing a wire near the power mains line(s) is illegal?  If they deliberately shield the line, that's effectively impossible.

(Regardless of the cost to them!), I honestly believe their claim to sole right to demand payment for power they provide would be legally sound if they grounded the emanations, thus forcing thieves to do something like strip the insulation (obvious tampering and risky as well) or bypass the electric meter (just as illegal, I agree).

---Lee


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"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
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The Big:

Shielding for power is pie-in-the-sky.  There is almost no emanated radiation and we have been living in it for 100 years.  Sometimes you have to defer to the expertize of others.  Or play with microwave equations and see how they work at ultra low frequencies to get an idea of the order of magnitude of the radiation.  I think the overall argument about domestic power line pollution is misplaced, it's an argument for the sake of an argument.

Then there is the argument about benefits vs. harm, just like for cell phones and pesticides and a myriad of other things.  I like my hot shower in the morning.

Going back to charging capacitors with "radiant electricity," can anyone cite an example?  I mean not the "classic" example where a person puts an antenna in their attic and after 24 hours a 10 uF capacitor gets charged to 1.3 volts, or whatever.

In my opinion all of those "suitcase systems" and associated YouTube clips are fake.  You have to keep in mind that coils and capacitors are energy storage systems.  So they are waiting for a source of "juice" before they do anything.  Same thing for resonance, it's just an inductive component and a capacitive component that are sloshing stored energy back and forth.  You see increased amplitude at resonance, but resonance in an of itself is not a source of energy.

Anyway, I am just one voice that will get drowned out!  lol

MileHigh
   

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What is a capacitor?  Two conductors surrounded by dielectric material.

Depending on the flavor you like, energy is stored in the dielectric via polarization of the molecules or stored as charges on the surfaces of the conductors.

WW pointed out several interesting ways to alter the energy stored in the capacitor by altering the dielectric or plate charge.

So, to charge a capacitor you have to polarize the dielectric or change the charge of the plates.

If you have seen Dollard's video, a light bulb emitting the radiant force attracts a piece of copper in his hand.  This is a macroscopic effect on matter because the copper is free to move.  Fix the copper so it can not move and the force will effect the free electrons of the copper or induce a polarization current in an insulator.

Polarization current is a broad term that includes displacement current, in case you never heard of it.  Capacitors do not work without it, like it or not.

The simple method is to place the cap in the field.  Whether it charges by electrons in the leads, or polarization of the dielectric, or both, no one has ever stated publicly.  No one has ever stated whether orientation makes a difference or if other fields have any effect. 

Without the radiant force, the the cap doesn't charge, so you have to have that first.
   
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@milehigh
Quote
Shielding for power is pie-in-the-sky.  There is almost no emanated radiation and we have been living in it for 100 years.  Sometimes you have to defer to the expertize of others.  Or play with microwave equations and see how they work at ultra low frequencies to get an idea of the order of magnitude of the radiation.  I think the overall argument about domestic power line pollution is misplaced, it's an argument for the sake of an argument.
Have you ever heard the saying-- a picture is worth a thousand words?--http://www.stopgeek.com/richard-boxs-light-field.html
This is another good site---http://www.dirtyelectricity.org/health-issues.shtml  and ---http://www.dirtyelectricity.ca/

Milehigh you seem like a pretty smart guy but to be honest many of your comments are just silly, Tesla documented the fact that power lines radiate energy and that many forms of radiation can be harmful over 100 years ago. As well what you are implying goes against everything that modern science stands for, you are implying that an "action" on a conductor can have no "reaction" in the surrounding space. I have built many very sensitive solid state electrometers for my research and I have studied this phenomena in depth, from my practical experience I can tell you that you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
Regards
AC



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If you have seen Dollard's video, a light bulb emitting the radiant force attracts a piece of copper in his hand.  This is a macroscopic effect on matter because the copper is free to move.  Fix the copper so it can not move and the force will effect the free electrons of the copper or induce a polarization current in an insulator.

Polarization current is a broad term that includes displacement current, in case you never heard of it.  Capacitors do not work without it, like it or not.

It's good to see your posts again, when I think of people I would like to have a rational conversation with regarding a topic almost nobody understands -- you are in the top 5, lol. We don't have to turn this technology into some voodoo mystical BS as some experts would have us believe, this is science and it is nice to see others such as yourself keep the debate based on observable facts as well as theory.
I have also seen similar effects whereby a coil or simply a conductor can apply forces to both free conductors and dielectrics. Many times it is these little effects we cannot see and can hardly measure that seem the most peculiar. I did one simple experiment I used a IRFP460 mosfet attached to a 12v battery with a 12v light in series. The gate was left open,when I touch the gate with my finger the light comes on because our body naturally carries a positive charge. Now I can attach a 10 foot wire to the gate and can still turn it on with a simple touch of my finger or I can touch one finger of one hand to the wire turning the light on and touch the negative terminal of a completely separate battery with the other finger and turn the light off. It is all these little things whose actions are obvious after the fact but never apparent at the time that we seem to be missing. That is, I know exactly why this experiment works it is simply electrical surface charges but before this experiment it had never really sunk home that by simply touching one finger to one terminal of a 12v battery my entire bodies surface charge has been modified. I know this because my other finger touching a wire attached to the mosfet gate turned the 12v light off. Can you imagine that, all these so-called experts using high power mosfet drivers to switch their circuits when all you need to do is touch the gate conductor to a "single" terminal of a battery to turn it on or off, lol. I wonder how much energy this requires considering only one battery terminal is utilized? To be honest I am starting to think all these so-called experts with all their credentials have completely forgotten the basics of science, I am glad there are still some common sense experimenters such as yourself around to show others the way.
Regards
AC


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"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

Be careful when you blindly follow the Masses... sometimes the "M" is silent.
   
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Hello all,

@Grumpy

I had no doubt that you know it!!!

All,

if you "play" with charging a battery then, if you can, open the cells, if you use a 12V car battery, because ......it can be a little bit dangerous!!

@AC

there are a lot of "surprises" when you connect a MOSFET in a "wrong" way. In an "unusual" way.

Otto
   

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@BEP
Manipulation of the dielectric requires "work".   How would you keep the dielectric continuously polarized without moving it?

I haven't been able to devise a set of experiments to answer that question. Obviously, my theories of how this all works are not complete, maybe completely off.

What I do know is polarization of this, or these, media is not polar, in the sense of having two distinct and different ends. The closest fit to the evidence is polarization involves curvature, possibly circular, spherical, helical, or all the above.

Does it require 'work' to get it going? I would say, yes, but only if you are trying to change the shape, direction or handedness it has already.
As far as keeping it polarized... I am starting to suspect we already have two excellent examples - magnets & electrets. I just obtained a handful of 70's vintage .05 mfd 3kV "Plastic" caps produced with 'accidental' ferroelectric properties. No matter how many times I short them, they always 'recover' to the previous charge within seconds.

The tech notes on the box (dated in 76) says the caps were faulty from the supplier and the stored charge caused circuit failure when used. They were jumped when I received them.

So, keeping a charge? My best guess is a static force is more like a soliton than anything else. Once it is going, your usage is more like riding a wave than draining a pond.

Smoke rings and plasma balls? My feet are on the ground. I just don't have a good understanding of it all, yet.

I'm still hoping to join your efforts, this weekend.





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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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I'm still hoping to join your efforts, this weekend.

Hopefully more will get off the keyboard and back to the bench along with us.  Talking and reading only get you so far.  Eventually, you have to put into practice or just forget about it.

I think we have all misinterpreted hints given by the handful that are giving them, and this has wasted a lot fo time.  It doesn't help matters that there are so many shysters out there telling you this and that as if it were fact when it is a far from fact as possible.  Then others read too much into what little fact is available - like attributing so many things to Tesla that he never said or did.   Apparently, the only ones you can trust are silenced.  LOL!  How ironic!

I have not been able to find a single valid reference to Nikola Tesla charging batteries with radiant electricity by any method.  Nor have I been able to find a valid reference to Tesla using low voltage to produce radiant electicity.
   

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Hopefully more will get off the keyboard and back to the bench along with us.  Talking and reading only get you so far.  Eventually, you have to put into practice or just forget about it.

Yes. I haven't stopped in much because it is too depressing when you have an idea with 1500 miles between you and your bench.

Quote
I have not been able to find a single valid reference to Nikola Tesla charging batteries with radiant electricity by any method.  Nor have I been able to find a valid reference to Tesla using low voltage to produce radiant electicity.

Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away from the computer. When I see folks using terms like 'a coil with high self induction and low resistance' or 'high frequency and high speed' while discussing DC or AC or 'zero pf and the magic is in the KVARS'. I wonder if the speaker understands what each require. If they do, they probably already have the answers. But, they don't. The majority are simple idiots, as I'm sure I am in their eyes.

My bosses have a nasty habit of jerking me from the bench. I may just turn the phone and email off this weekend.



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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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Allcanadian:

Some people forget that science and technology have advanced a lot since Tesla's days.  Tesla could only have had an inkling about what was going on because the tools to make the measurements did not exist at the time.  The main reason almost nothing Tesla experimented with is around now is because better technologies have been developed in the 70 years since he passed away.  There was nothing available to measure the power distribution in the frequency spectrum in his time.

I'm not convinced about harmful effects.  There are thousands of alarmist web sites out there for almost anything.

I suffered through two microwaves courses so I have an idea.  There are very few people in the overall online "free energy" virtual world that really know their stuff.  I know enough to be able to qualify people out there.  For example, Poynt99 really knows his stuff.

Quote
I have built many very sensitive solid state electrometers for my research and I have studied this phenomena in depth, from my practical experience I can tell you that you have literally no idea what you are talking about.

Perhaps one day you will discuss some of your work and we can discover who knows what.

MileHigh
   

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Yes. I haven't stopped in much because it is too depressing when you have an idea with 1500 miles between you and your bench.

Sometimes I just shake my head and walk away from the computer. When I see folks using terms like 'a coil with high self induction and low resistance' or 'high frequency and high speed' while discussing DC or AC or 'zero pf and the magic is in the KVARS'. I wonder if the speaker understands what each require. If they do, they probably already have the answers. But, they don't. The majority are simple idiots, as I'm sure I am in their eyes.

My bosses have a nasty habit of jerking me from the bench. I may just turn the phone and email off this weekend.

I write down all sorts of little notes and sketches when I can't get to the bench.  Then I can really haul arse when I do get some time.  Sometimes you think of really good stuff when you least expect it and then forget it when you have time to do something with it, so write them down.

As for "effects" from EM fields, there are good and bad just like with everything else.  Electrostatic fields can be used to enhance the growth of plants or kill the plants.  Tesla mentioned the ill effects of x-rays and also how he avoided them.  As far as I know he did not suffer from cancer like the Currie's did.

Any thoughts out there on charging caps and batteries with RE?
   
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Hello all,

@Grumpy

maybe first to wright here what radiated energy, oh, I meant, radiant energy is?? For members who dont know it.

Otto
   
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@grumpy, if you take a ceramic disk capacitor and put both its legs into the differential input of a high gain dual opamp stage then you can literally hear whats going on charge wise between the cap plates. make the opamps power from 2xPP3 cells. put the whole lot in a grounded metal box and pass the output signal through a bnc.

then with earphones and small audio amp you can hear the caps noise. EEs call this 1/f noise and some speculate that it is a micro effect at the quantum level within the dielectric. However my experiments with two such units seperated by a couple of meters and both into a scope showed me alot of common mode signals in all frequency ranges (mHz to MHz).

note that the circuit is so sensitive that microphonics are also present in the cap, if you tap the bench then as the dielectric compresses and expands with the passing shock wave you will hear it.

the opamp inputs are very high impedence but nonetheless some leakage occurs across the receiving cap, this prevents DC buildup in the cap over a long time. i suppose the caps dielectric also leaks a little too. so in my experiments i never saw dc buildup. but the slower mHz signals look like DC for a while.

If you have a radiant generator within the vicinity then you will hear or see strong signals of the radiant event. with a radiant TX and RX it should be possible to make a superluminal communication device... subspace communicator anyone?

Back to your original question, how to best charge a cap from RE? Well somehow the radiant energy needs lensing into the caps dielectric, i think a gravity lense would work but dont know how to make one in a small package. perhaps some other aetheric engineering is needed to funnel the RE into the right spot.
   

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Hello all,

@Grumpy

maybe first to wright here what radiated energy, oh, I meant, radiant energy is?? For members who dont know it.

Otto

Radiant force is just a force, much like gravity.

Radiant electricity is a charging effect produced by this force, but is this an effect of the force by itself, or it's interaction with something else?  RE is not "negative electricity", or "cold current".  RE is not a current itself, so how can it induce a charge in a capacitor or charge a battery?


Fraser,  Good idea using op amps to hear what's going on.

   

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G,

Made it home. The bench is dusty but I'm sure I have what I need, except a known working schematic, of course  ;D


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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G,

Made it home. The bench is dusty but I'm sure I have what I need, except a known working schematic, of course  ;D

All you need is the basic principles and time to put it together.
   
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Grumpy

I built a few HV caps and charged one up. I disassembled it and handled each of the components, measuring for apparent surface charges to find nothing really unusual. Then re-assembled it and the full charge from prior to disassembly was still there. Obviously it would seem that the charge was stored in the dielectric, since I also tried electrodes from an uncharged identical capacitor and most of the charge followed the dielectric. However, the amount of charge was quite a bit lower with the uncharged electrodes. This indicated that both the electodes AND the dielectric played a role in charge retention. When I placed the electrodes from the charged cap into an uncharged dielectric, there was barely any charge registering. Have you tried this before?

Bob Boyce
   

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...Obviously it would seem that the charge was stored in the dielectric...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg

EDIT: This video blew my mind when I first saw it.
   
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I'm guessing some here may already know this but since I haven't seen it mentioned here I've read that a teflon coated wire antenna can be a much stronger charge collector than most other types of wire. 
   

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That's crazy cool!
   
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It appears there are other views as to what is taking place with the dissectible Leyden jar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar

Quote
A popular but misleading demonstration with a Leyden jar involves taking one apart after it has been charged and showing that the charge is stored on the dielectric, not the plates. The first documented instance of this demonstration is in a 1749 letter by Benjamin Franklin.  Franklin designed a "dissectible" leyden jar, shown at left, which was widely used in demonstrations. This erroneous belief was taught in schools throughout the 1800s, and is still sometimes encountered.

However this phenomenon is a special effect caused by the high voltage on the Leyden jar. In the dissectible Leyden jar, charge is transferred to the surface of the glass cup by corona discharge when the jar is disassembled; this is the source of the residual charge after the jar is reassembled. Handling the cup while disassembled does not provide enough contact to remove all the surface charge. Soda glass is hygroscopic and forms a partially conductive coating on its surface, which holds the charge. Addenbrook (1922) found that in a dissectible jar made of paraffin, or glass baked to remove moisture, the charge remained on the metal plates. Zeleny (1944) confirmed these results and observed the corona charge transfer.[9] In capacitors generally, the charge is not stored in the dielectric, but on the inside surfaces of the plates, as can be seen from the fact that capacitors can function with a vacuum between their plates.

   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Yes, good quote  ;) ;)

.99


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Never let your belligerence get in the way of your brilliance!
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Incredible...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg

EDIT: This video blew my mind when I first saw it.


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It appears there are other views as to what is taking place with the dissectible Leyden jar

I suppose it is best to let sleeping dogs lie and let charged plates lie near one another.  The act of separating the plates changes the nature of the capacitor itself.

Still, it is interesting.  Some insulator materials 'hold' the charge during plate separation, others do not.  I bet polar-polymers would take the charge and non-polar would not,... or maybe just the opposite.  I wonder how the Farad rating would change with the material, all other things being equal.

Thanks for posting the other views.  :)
   

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"In capacitors generally, the charge is not stored in the dielectric, but on the inside surfaces of the plates, as can be seen from the fact that capacitors can function with a vacuum between their plates."

I wonder if that statement was made by the same folks that said radio signals from space are all faked.

The mistake being made by almost all is thinking there is no dielectric in a vacuum capacitor.

If charge is stored on the plates why doesn't shorting the plates with the 'dielectric' removed discharge the 'capacitor'? The coronal charge idea doesn't fly. If that was true only half of the charge would transfer.

Where is the experiment where the plates were swapped with other ones and the one where the capacitor parts were all moved and reassembled elsewhere?


Aw shucks! I guess we gotta go with it. After all, Wiki says so.

 
« Last Edit: 2010-09-25, 00:59:41 by WaveWatcher »


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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