PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
2019-10-20, 22:46:21
News: Forum TIP:
The SHOUT BOX deletes messages after 3 hours. It is NOT meant to have lengthy conversations in. Use the Chat feature instead.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
Author Topic: Pierre's OU claim  (Read 22172 times)
Group: Guest
I guess I'll post this here since it may be relevant at some point (although if self-running can be confirmed it is probably moot).

This is a pdf from Keysight about RMS measurements.

   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Thanks for the testing, much appreciated.
The Mega is new, but Chinese from a USA reseller. One of the ones that has a CH340 for Serial rather than a 16U2.

I've heard nothing of Beta factory chips being reused or anything like that, so can't really see how the Atmel chip could be running much slower...unless the crystal is defective/wrong value. Will check that. Am new to the Mega2560 but don't think it has an internal slow oscillator like some of the others (the much older Mega32 for example). If it does have one, it could be that the firmware has been flashed to use the internal oscillator...will reflash the firmware.
Will see about replacing the onboard SMD xtal with a proper 16MHz if reflashing doesn't improve it. It's kinda useless as it sits, so needs to be sorted out.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
In time honoured fashion for a Sunday morning, I made the diagnosis far too complicated  C.C
After a look through everything for enough female to female to male Dupont leads, the firmware was re-flashed with a Genuino Italiano Uno o. No change, so then a good look at the SMD crystal. Then, yes why not touch behind A7 with a finger tip to simulate a direct Ground...zooom, the display was far quicker !
It was indeed something amiss with the pot. It's been replaced with another 10K and now is fine, full speed running with useful range. 
:D 

Shot here from a run of the 'delay' code. It shows the 1's, 2's and 3's lit of the Pierre videos frame rate, so should be good for testing. I guess in a way it was worth the rewrite to the state machine version, there now being 2 lots of code to try.

Many thanks TK for putting me on the road to sorting this, by mentioning the speed pot.


Edit: 2nd pic below, a screenshot of the state machine version...looks better as a replication of the original frame rate view. Also has the feature of being locked to the processor timings, rather than possibly less exacting delays.

« Last Edit: 2018-03-18, 19:49:23 by Slider2732 »


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Group: Guest
I have to admit that I don't really understand the sequencing. I mean, in several places you have the same pin being turned on or off several times in a "Position".

For example Pin 40 in Position 11:

Code: [Select]
digitalWrite (1, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (17, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (35, HIGH); // E

... so only 4 LEDs are actually being turned on, not 5.

And similar in other positions.

I also don't understand the "timing diagram" you posted up above, or how it relates to the coils being energized/de-energized in a sequence rolling around the stator. What am I missing?

   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Ah...Pin 40 is a place holder, which does nothing.
The LED's are connected on Pins 1 to 35, with 40 only there to show the A, B, C, D, E sections in full.
That way, if there need to be changes or simply when viewing how the code works, it reads far better than missing lines and would make any changes easier.
Pin 40 is used throughout for the same thing, a placeholder and has no wired connection from it.
It looked messy if those lines were commented out and looked perplexing if the lines were deleted.

The timing diagram is an example position, from which all others in the sequence can be derived.
If the videos of Pierre's are studied for the lighting sequence, it's apparent that the shown LED's going on and off at different times are not the whole story. There are 4 positions outside of the shown LED's. That's how there can be a whole row blank when freeze framing, no LED's lit.
Moving the position left each time shows the relationship between each row, their offsets from each other.

On catching up with the big thread at ou.com, I saw it mentioned that Pierre should share his code with Luc. Quite agree, it's getting to be important to those building.
Pierre may consider it a key, I dunno, I thought he would have posted it by now really, considering he's being open and communicative to all via Luc. Think of it another way, if Pierre isn't liking the attention and the thing does work, someone such as Luc or another builder could take up the reins via the collaborations and a shift in the focus. He has no obligations, yet appears to be wishing to forward it.   


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Group: Guest
OK... so Pin 40 is just a placeholder... but from 1 to 35 that's only 35 pins, shouldn't there be 36?

My brain must be getting ossified because I still don't get it.

Can't someone post an actual timing diagram? The closest to a real timing diagram was posted on OU by listener191 here:
http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg518380/#msg518380  (post 375)

Also, I'm not so sure that freeze-framing through the YouTube video to get the timing and sequencing is likely to be error-free. YouTube does its own processing on uploaded videos and in my experience, what you see on YT is not always identical to what was uploaded, and even what was uploaded is sometimes different from what actually happened. All of this is due to various video compression artifacts combined with camera artifacts. It might be better if Pierre would post his original videos at a file-sharing site so we could see what came out of the camera directly without having to worry about possible framing artifacts from YT processing. Maybe there would be no difference, but it's an issue worth considering, I think.



   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
It really is an issue...but the main thing is that when the emulated code runs, it does so in keeping with the LED placements of Pierre's code. The state machine version appears to do so best. Also, anything personally uploaded to Youtube 'should' also have timings that are similar. But, LED positions are the important thing. 

The 36 position problem is acknowledged and mentioned in the code.
I do know that the top 2 LEDs next to the Mega 2560 could well be for that use. They can be triggered at the correct timing readily enough, if that's what they are. 1 for sequence start position and 1 for coil 36 ?
   
An updated version of the code is attached, answering your questions (for others who may have them) about Pin 40 etc and including PmgR's 22 Millisec addition, for running at that speed without a timing adjustment pot.



---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Group: Guest
Unfortunately it looks like somebody acting like a whiny little brat with a chip on his shoulder has decided to take over the thread on OU and turn it into a personal attack against Luc and anyone associated with him. This person has never, to my knowledge, actually contributed anything, neither cogent skeptical criticism nor practical advice nor details of any constructions of his own. Waking up to stuff like that is enough to put anyone off, and is a damn good reason to have private or invitation-only forums like this one where such distractions may be avoided.

Myself, I don't believe Pierre's claims for self-running or OU, everybody knows that, but I am still willing to help with the examination of the claims and to help develop tools and procedures to either achieve the ultimate goal, or to debunk false claims. As long as the project can be done without having to wade through page after page of some hypocrite's "me me me" bloviating. At this point I would suggest that Luc abandon Stefan's out-of-control forum entirely and just continue to report on his work here or some other venue of his choosing where he or some other reasonable person can control the trolls and bloviators.

Luc is doing beautiful work and whether or not I feel that he is wasting his time, we are all learning from the experience. Meanwhile not even I can think of any reason why a 36-slot stator might produce self-running OU whereas a 30 slot stator wouldn't. 
   
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3635
It's turtles all the way down
Pierre's similar titles to many of his youtube offerings and "magic show" form of presentation are enough to turn me off.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Group: Guest
Quote
Meanwhile not even I can think of any reason why a 36-slot stator might produce self-running OU whereas a 30 slot stator wouldn't. 

Oh come on TK, can't you see it? 36 is evenly divisible by 3, 6 and 9, Tesla's "magic numbers" !! And 30 isn't.

Therefore overunity.     :D
   
Group: Ambassador
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3230
18 would be cheaper ....
in all seriousness... Luc being an unfunded fellow is using what he has available
or is cheaper to access.
    a spot on replication will be done ...Eventually

its just a preliminary "easier" to do cost effective scenario .

in a perfect world, Luc would have everything he needs at his fingertips .


edit: to remove a double negative [I think ??]

« Last Edit: 2018-03-21, 19:13:24 by Chet K »
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
I'm thinking Pierre posted misleading vids first, but have no idea why. Perhaps to build up a following such that his 'real' device is actually seen by people interested in the topic.
Noone can deny the quality of that build...not a single 1970's Soviet era dirtied thick gauge wire to be seen.
Out of nowhere - superb build - has been somewhat open in communications - ego isn't out there in the stratosphere - what to think ?
Am with ION and TK for some of this, if only due to jadedness. Otherwise, let's go and find out.

I don't think 30 or 36 coils is going to be the deal breaker either, if it is truly OU. Might be that he had the same situ as Luc, it was just what he had available. Likewise, it would be hilarious is only Bosch ones as fitted to VW's in WWII worked. Who knows, 50% of them could be 36's and 50% 30's.
IF the principle works, it should be possible to self run a far simpler machine with a poor to near zero excess. Perhaps the Steven Mark stuff, Romerouk's machine and the Lockridge device are in this mix.
What links all 4 ? anything ?
Could a switcher using a microcontroller control something else that would result in a coreless rotating magnetic field ?
If so, ima do that :)


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1498
Has anyone yet, in simple language, attempted to
explain how this device may tap into some
unidentified reservoir of free energy?

There must be some basis in theory which
might account for a principle or two to
help understand what is being sought?

Or, is it still a mystery with no explanation?


---------------------------
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3651


Buy me some coffee


Likewise, it would be hilarious is only Bosch ones as fitted to VW's in WWII worked. Who knows, 50% of them could be 36's and 50% 30's.
IF the principle works, it should be possible to self run a far simpler machine with a poor to near zero excess. Perhaps the Steven Mark stuff, Romerouk's machine and the Lockridge device are in this mix.


The !lockridge! device was bought into existence by P.Linderman and B-e-d-i-n-i--a fabricated device that never existed. This was done so as they could write another book about a wonderful free energy device,which the gullible would buy.

If you do a google search on the lockridge device,you will see that every page listed has 1 or both of those names plastered all over it. 
Of course,no one else in the world knew anything about this !lockridge! device  :D


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Ahhhhhh  O0
Thanks TinMan, I didn't know that.

muDped - true enough, am a bit stumped on the size of the capacitor bank for a start.
There was mention of coil shorting as a theory, as they switch over, in the big OU.com thread.
To my much less astute eyes than some, it looks like something could be worked out with a box fan motor and no shaft...just for circuit study. Because that's another question, whether power can be drawn off from the outside of the coil assembly.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 325
I believe this device works because we have pure magnetic field moving in space so no drag, output depends only on frequency and field.
   
Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 917
IMO, there is still much to learn from field interactions and we could assume they do exist in Pierre's device.  Therefore, I maintain the possibility that his device works due to my own research in this area. 

I've attached a paper on some tests I ran a few years ago based on phased bucking coils and their resultant H fields driving a load in the center of the toroid.

Regards,
Pm
   
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3635
It's turtles all the way down
Has anyone yet, in simple language, attempted to
explain how this device may tap into some
unidentified reservoir of free energy?

There must be some basis in theory which
might account for a principle or two to
help understand what is being sought?

Or, is it still a mystery with no explanation?

I agree and it would seem the first order of business for anyone wishing to widely spread a new idea would be to first present the operational hypothesis in clear language, then follow up by demonstrating the simplest proof of concept hardware.

The complexity of the device is not impressive (to me).

Videos with all pizzaz and no meat don't tell much. Too much time spent stripping wires and connecting things rather than real info.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTYIW_yo65zgWdMlcA3s9A/videos?disable_polymer=1

Regarding the Lockridge device I agree with Tinman. After watching the ###### and Linde#### promotional video on the subject I concluded it was a poorly done presentation with ###### blowing the usual hot air interspersed with some stock WWII photos. If there is any truth to the device, those two never had it.

Regards


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 325
In other words : it works because it mimic the patents of Figuera and Benitez.  O0
   
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3635
It's turtles all the way down
I would put my money on partzman's device from his attached pdf earlier reply #41.



---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3651


Buy me some coffee
I would put my money on partzman's device from his attached pdf earlier reply #41.

With a COP of 1.88 we should be taking a closer look at this--but the build description has me a bit lost.
A more accurate build description would be great.

Quote: This topology consists of a toroid transformer with 4 identical windings connected in aiding and bucking pairs that are in
parallel and driven by two sine waves 90 degrees out of phase. An output coil is positioned between the aiding pair of
coils for maximum output to the 24.5 ohm load.
It has been found that square waves will also work in the same manner and would be the preferred drive source in order
to recover the negative energy to the power supply.
It might be noted that the magnetizing current for the windings at 20khz is appreciable.
The net input power = 184mw with the output power = 345mw for a COP = 1.88.


Edit: Center cores (2) of 3019 pot cores are inserted in the middle of L5.

So is there a gap between the aiding windings on the toroid,so as the pot cores and bobbin fit between the gap,and close to the toroid core?,or dose it just sit in the middle of the toroid?.

Also,i think one of the dots indicating winding direction is in the incorrect place.
Seem to have 3 coils in parallel each way,and only 1 coil in bucking mode each way ?.

Was this sim done using ideal coils,or was the resistance and capacitance added in ?


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 917
With a COP of 1.88 we should be taking a closer look at this--but the build description has me a bit lost.
A more accurate build description would be great.

Quote: This topology consists of a toroid transformer with 4 identical windings connected in aiding and bucking pairs that are in
parallel and driven by two sine waves 90 degrees out of phase. An output coil is positioned between the aiding pair of
coils for maximum output to the 24.5 ohm load.
It has been found that square waves will also work in the same manner and would be the preferred drive source in order
to recover the negative energy to the power supply.
It might be noted that the magnetizing current for the windings at 20khz is appreciable.
The net input power = 184mw with the output power = 345mw for a COP = 1.88.


Edit: Center cores (2) of 3019 pot cores are inserted in the middle of L5.

So is there a gap between the aiding windings on the toroid,so as the pot cores and bobbin fit between the gap,and close to the toroid core?,or dose it just sit in the middle of the toroid?.

Also,i think one of the dots indicating winding direction is in the incorrect place.
Seem to have 3 coils in parallel each way,and only 1 coil in bucking mode each way ?.

Was this sim done using ideal coils,or was the resistance and capacitance added in ?


Brad

Brad,

I will have to recreate the circuit on the bench to confirm the coil connections as there is a discrepancy between my description and the schematic and my memory doesn't serve me well on this at the moment. 

The load winding in the center of the toroid is gapped by ~.25" on each end.

Also, I use LtSpice for a schematic tool and in this case, this circuit was not actually simulated.

Regards,
Pm
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3651


Buy me some coffee
Brad,

I will have to recreate the circuit on the bench to confirm the coil connections as there is a discrepancy between my description and the schematic and my memory doesn't serve me well on this at the moment. 

The load winding in the center of the toroid is gapped by ~.25" on each end.

Also, I use LtSpice for a schematic tool and in this case, this circuit was not actually simulated.

Regards,
Pm
Ah.ok

Well let us know how you go,as i have the bits needed to build this one,and it seems simple enough.

Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 917
Ah.ok

Well let us know how you go,as i have the bits needed to build this one,and it seems simple enough.

Brad

The good news, the schematic is correct!  Bad news, I can't replicate using a freshly wound toroid!  I searched but could not find the original transformer used with the four windings so I have to assume it was used for another experiment. :-[   However, I do have is a toroid core that could have been used that has two buck windings and exhibits unusual characteristics that I have previously posted on the forum.  So, at some point in the near future, I will rewind that core and we'll see if that solves the mystery.  The bad thing is, I have a test that was recorded on the following day using a 70 degree shift which showed negative input with over 1w output.  The possibility exists there was measurement error!

Regards,
Pm       
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1375
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Am sure you'd like some verification of those measurements and, perhaps the 2 projects can dovetail ?
I agree with Brad's thinking that the principle is what's being replicated, the functions, the effects. A 100% carbon copy might show whether a device runs as described, but arguably little learning is achieved.

Well, a wish has been to find something of a stator that is far more readily available, perhaps for free and yet useful for exploration of a number of the principles of Pierre's device. I now wonder if such a thing would have a use in your own studies too. Perhaps not, wrong amount of windings etc, but....box fan AC motors !
16 segments, 8 coils. It would have horrendous stepping but then again can a case be made for square wave output and DC rectification, or sinusoidal output shaping as a circuit follower ?
At least it's worth me asking the question :)

Got 2 of these from old box fans:



---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2019-10-20, 22:46:21