Adams Axial Pulse Motor

[Verpies]

Thanks. I need to create an account on OU.

Good luck with that.

Out of interest, what sort of results were you getting?

It's all there. Read the entire thread 

Using the rectifier I posted earlier,

Diodes block/rectify current - not voltage.
Inductors store current.
Capacitors store voltage.

[unimmortal]

It's all there. Read the entire thread 

Hey Verpies, it might be more constructive to give me a quick high level of Vin/Vout of what you achieved, before I come back and tell you the thread is missing or my access is blocked.

Diodes block/rectify current - not voltage.
Inductors store current.
Capacitors store voltage.

This isn't strictly the case with negative energy, otherwise adding more diodes wouldn't have shown more voltage.

[Verpies]

Hey Verpies, it might be more constructive to give me a quick high level of Vin/Vout of what you achieved, before I come back and tell you the thread is missing or my access is blocked.

Are you asking me to do your homework?

This isn't strictly the case with negative energy, otherwise adding more diodes wouldn't have shown more voltage.

Most diodes exhibit a voltage drop (V_F) when current flows through them in the forward direction, so adding more diodes in series will increase their total voltage drop.
Also, diodes exhibit capacitance in the reverse direction (C_R), so adding more diodes in parallel increases their total reverse capacitance.

BTW: What is negative energy?  "Negative" with respect to what other energy level ?  You cannot have a "negative" of anything without defining the zero level first. When you do that, then anything less than this zero can be considered "negative".

Last but not least, how did energy get into the discussion of diodes' behavior?  Diodes are oblivious to energy.  They react to the direction of current which attempts to flow through them and they have a reverse voltage rating which determines how much reverse voltage they can withstand before breaking down and allowing a large current to flow (in reverse).

[Paul-R]

This isn't strictly the case with negative energy

What is negative energy?

What is it that you can add to 3kWh that gives you 1kWh ?

[unimmortal]

What is negative energy?

What is it that you can add to 3kWh that gives you 1kWh ?

Haha, yeah it's not real intuitive, but here is the jist of it as I've come to understand it with my non-technical mind. When a circuit is formed a flow of energy is created, what we don't see is the etheric circuit that forms in a higher density that we can't (yet) interact with. When the flow of energy is abrubtly cut (as we do with nanosecond switching MOSFETs), a magnetic reversal occurs that we see generally as EMF. The properties of EMF are the negative aspect of a flow of energy that has had it's positive aspect removed. Kinda like a two way mirror that we're starting to realise has two sides... 

When the magnetic reversal occurs, what is it attracted to? a positive potential, unlike our classic electricity that is looking for a negative potential (or ground/earth) in order to reach a natural equilibrium. And what happens when a bunch of 'EMF energy' is sitting at the negative end of a coil as a result of having the positive cut, and sees the switch re-open with positive energy? It is attracted to it, causing resistance to the positive energy that has been released into the coil looking for ground.

Yes it's simplistic, yes the terminology needs work, but one look at an oscilloscope that has thousands of volts seemingly appear from nowhere when a circuit is cut, you have to wonder where did it actually come from.

[unimmortal]

Most diodes exhibit a voltage drop (V_F) when current flows through them in the forward direction, so adding more diodes in series will increase their total voltage drop.
Also, diodes exhibit capacitance in the reverse direction (C_R), so adding more diodes in parallel increases their total reverse capacitance.

BTW: What is negative energy?  "Negative" with respect to what other energy level ?  You cannot have a "negative" of anything without defining the zero level first. When you do that, then anything less than this zero can be considered "negative".

Last but not least, how did energy get into the discussion of diodes' behavior?  Diodes are oblivious to energy.  They react to the direction of current which attempts to flow through them and they have a reverse voltage rating which determines how much reverse voltage they can withstand before breaking down and allowing a large current to flow (in reverse).

As per my explanation in my last post, because I so far understand that 'EMF' is attracted to a positive potential, I am attempting to present something to it, to induce the emf/voltage away from the coils, and multiple paths through parallel 1000V diodes in an unorthodox recitifier appears to be working. Only a couple of weeks ago from a 9V input, I was seeing 11.5V with just a button type IC recitifer, and I thought it was xmas. Now I'm seeing 74V and wondering how much more can can there be, and how do I extract it.

Anyway, I've got more than enough usable voltage to power my other little terror - shortly, I hope for them to be both reciprocating.

[Verpies]

Getting a higher voltage from lower supply voltage and an inductor is nothing unusual.
This is usually done like this:



This example shows 3x voltage boost. However even 100x boost is possible with this method.
What would be unusual if you obtained a higher product of voltage and current at the output than at the input.

..., because I so far understand that 'EMF' is attracted to a positive potential,

That's news to me. EMF is like a voltage. How can "voltage" be attracted?  Can you explain?

[unimmortal]

I feel like I've come to a cross-road with this project, and I'm not quite sure of my next step...

I built a switch and fired up my little monster over the weekend. I've got the voltage divider bias set at 1:1 for the gate of the P-channel (IRF9540) power switching transistor, which has an upper Vgs limit of +20V. So the ouput of either of the little terrors' generator coils can drive this at around 36V safely.

The EM coils aren't offset like the little terrors, and have been wound in series with opposite winding for each side of the rotor - all attract, all repel at the same time. Each coil 80 is metres @ 1.7 ohm, becoming ~800 turns over 12mm bolts with threaded ends. The magnets in the rotor are the same as the little terrors, where I've used a stack of 40mm x 20mm N42 magnets (20x8mm and 20x4mm) that clip to each other via a 1mm shelf in the middle of each magnet hole in the rotor. With all of that magnetic attraction, you can only start it with two firm hands.

As shown in the photo, and just like the little terrors, with a 36V input I'm still drawing no current and the transistor is staying at room temperature.

[JimBoot]

I feel like I've come to a cross-road with this project, and I'm not quite sure of my next step...

I built a switch and fired up my little monster over the weekend. I've got the voltage divider bias set at 1:1 for the gate of the P-channel (IRF9540) power switching transistor, which has an upper Vgs limit of +20V. So the ouput of either of the little terrors' generator coils can drive this at around 36V safely.

The EM coils aren't offset like the little terrors, and have been wound in series with opposite winding for each side of the rotor - all attract, all repel at the same time. Each coil 80 is metres @ 1.7 ohm, becoming ~800 turns over 12mm bolts with threaded ends. The magnets in the rotor are the same as the little terrors, where I've used a stack of 40mm x 20mm N42 magnets (20x8mm and 20x4mm) that clip to each other via a 1mm shelf in the middle of each magnet hole in the rotor. With all of that magnetic attraction, you can only start it with two firm hands.

As shown in the photo, and just like the little terrors, with a 36V input I'm still drawing no current and the transistor is staying at room temperature.

Love to see a video when you get a chance. I've set up a Robert Adams GPT so if you have a circuit diagram I can upload and ask questions.

[unimmortal]

Love to see a video when you get a chance. I've set up a Robert Adams GPT so if you have a circuit diagram I can upload and ask questions.

Haha... when all is said and done, the video is pretty uneventful (yet to post any up on youtube, but I will). Lift it up while running and it's whisper quiet. Probably more interesting in person 

I guess I'm more testing out the axial platform and my build technique more than anything.at the moment. The reduced magnetic reluctance using offset coils cores is most definitely a doorway to more potential.

Edit: Start-up vid: https://youtube.com/shorts/g8L9jV9hWHk?feature=shared

[partzman]

Haha... when all is said and done, the video is pretty uneventful (yet to post any up on youtube, but I will). Lift it up while running and it's whisper quiet. Probably more interesting in person 

I guess I'm more testing out the axial platform and my build technique more than anything.at the moment. The reduced magnetic reluctance using offset coils cores is most definitely a doorway to more potential.

Edit: Start-up vid: https://youtube.com/shorts/g8L9jV9hWHk?feature=shared

I'm curious.  Why does the power supply current display read 2.30 amps after you switch it off?

Regards,
Pm

[unimmortal]

I'm curious.  Why does the power supply current display read 2.30 amps after you switch it off?

Ah, that's the adjustable current limit. It let's you know what your current limit is set at before you fry things

[gyula]

...

As shown in the photo, and just like the little terrors, with a 36V input I'm still drawing no current and the transistor is staying at room temperature.

Hi,

Do you have either a digital or an analog multimeter?  I would suggest to use such meter as an Ampermeter connected in series with one of the DC outputs of your power supply. 

This way there would be one more checking possibility to indicate the zero current draw, with the multimeter set to either DC or AC amper position (please check both, using not only the Amper but the mA settings ).   

I would like to ask this too:  how do you utilize the AC output of the generator coils?  Do you rectify the AC and filter it with an electrolytic capacitor? 

   And do you connect this output back to the DC input of the motor where the 36 VDC is coming from your power supply?   

I know you showed a rectifier drawing in your Reply #19 but as you wrote in Reply #32 you made certain changes in the circuit, this is why I ask.   The best would be if you could draw an actual circuit schematic on the setup you kindly showed in the video. This way we could all comment and help in a much better way to understand the behaviour of your present setup. Please do not make changes on it. 

Gyula

 

[unimmortal]

Do you have either a digital or an analog multimeter? 

I have just ordered an Astra AI 6000 I bought my existing meter 25 years ago 

I would like to ask this too:  how do you utilize the AC output of the generator coils?  Do you rectify the AC and filter it with an electrolytic capacitor? 

And do you connect this output back to the DC input of the motor where the 36 VDC is coming from your power supply? 

I know you showed a rectifier drawing in your Reply #19 but as you wrote in Reply #32 you made certain changes in the circuit, this is why I ask.   The best would be if you could draw an actual circuit schematic on the setup you kindly showed in the video. This way we could all comment and help in a much better way to understand the behaviour of your present setup. Please do not make changes on it. 

My intention is to use the AC output from the generator coils on the LT's, recitify and filter, to drive the LM. The LM is going to be the main power output of the system. The LT's are going to power each other via the output from the em coils.

I'm in a bit of a quandry at the moment. With 9V into the EM coils, my little terrors (LT's) are putting out too much voltage from the generator coils (>37V) which is the threshold for the 5V & 9V regulators, to feed back into the EM coils on the second LT. I haven't been able to test driving the second LT from the first LT via the EM coil output as I'm still waiting for a second rotor to be printed. And, after some testing this morning, the regulator capacitors are sized too small to keep up with the EM coils. This is where I also need to get a scope.

The change in switching circuit for the little monster (LM) was ony to satisfy the additional voltage (36V) at the gate of the PFET - as this exercise was to test the switch with an estimated output voltage from the LT gen coils, and validate the build.  The output recitifier of the LM is still a work in progress as this is where I intend to harvest all of the energy from all of the coils, and as I'm still learning, improvements will be made

I understand it's a little confusing with so many points of input/output, but as mentioned in an earlier post, this is the only way I could initially build it to test out all of the elements before consolidating into a simple single unit.

[lfarrand]

One thing to bear in mind with linear voltage regulators (LM78xx) is that even though they support max ~36V, anything over their rated output voltage +2V is going to cause them to heat up significantly. Ideally you will want to try to maintain the input voltage as close to rated output +2V as you can.

[unimmortal]

One thing to bear in mind with linear voltage regulators (LM78xx) is that even though they support max ~36V, anything over their rated output voltage +2V is going to cause them to heat up significantly. Ideally you will want to try to maintain the input voltage as close to rated output +2V as you can.

Yeah, I was being a little impatient waiting for a rotor and thought I'd try to make the LT eat itself... so this use case is invalid.

With the 18V I am seeing out from the EM coils, the plan is to split that between the 5V & 9V regulators (+2V each for overhead). So if my sums are right I'll break even and stay cool.

[gyula]

...
I'm in a bit of a quandry at the moment. With 9V into the EM coils, my little terrors (LT's) are putting out too much voltage from the generator coils (>37V) which is the threshold for the 5V & 9V regulators, to feed back into the EM coils on the second LT. I haven't been able to test driving the second LT from the first LT via the EM coil output as I'm still waiting for a second rotor to be printed. And, after some testing this morning, the regulator capacitors are sized too small to keep up with the EM coils. This is where I also need to get a scope.
...

Hi,

Well, to reduce the induced voltage from the >37V range, the best would be to remove a certain number of turns from the coils involved or just make a tap around half way of the full turns. This way you could remain in a safe operation area of the linear voltage regulators. 

Would you tell what does the 36V input voltage feed in your circuit you show in the video? Just curious...   

Gyula

[unimmortal]

Hi,

Well, to reduce the induced voltage from the >37V range, the best would be to remove a certain number of turns from the coils involved or just make a tap around half way of the full turns. This way you could remain in a safe operation area of the linear voltage regulators. 

Would you tell what does the 36V input voltage feed in your circuit you show in the video? Just curious...   

Gyula

Ah yes, thanks for the reminder. I'll put the switch schematic up tomorrow. It is a simple N channel FET triggered by a hall sensor to drop a voltage divider to ground, in turn triggering a P channel FET to power the coil from a PS.

[forest]

If the output is high frequency you could use ferrite transformer to step down current

[Chet K]

A forward message from TK ( aka TinselKoala )
Quote"
TK says
You can't get OU using p-ch mosfets as your switching element of magnetic field collapse
Use NOS 2n3055 instead and not all of them will work
Must be genuine, beware of forgeries
End quote
Additional information
TK
Quote

TK says
It doesn't matter how many or how few turns you have
The collapse of the mag field will cause voltage to rise until output resistance is overcome
One way or another
Whether simply driving LEDs or causing insulation breakdown or even radiating EM field
Voltage can rise nearly without limit even from small field collapse in certain situations
End quote

Respectfully
Submitted

[unimmortal]

A forward message from TK ( aka TinselKoala )
Quote"
TK says
You can't get OU using p-ch mosfets as your switching element of magnetic field collapse
Use NOS 2n3055 instead and not all of them will work
Must be genuine, beware of forgeries
End quote
Additional information
TK
Quote

TK says
It doesn't matter how many or how few turns you have
The collapse of the mag field will cause voltage to rise until output resistance is overcome
One way or another
Whether simply driving LEDs or causing insulation breakdown or even radiating EM field
Voltage can rise nearly without limit even from small field collapse in certain situations
End quote

Respectfully
Submitted

TK, are you using the 2n3055 for high or low side switching (power or earth). My experience has been that I can do more with the PMOS than I can with the NMOS. I haven't worked out NMOS high side switching however which I know to be faster.

[Chet K]

Passing along a comment from TinselKoala
Quote
TK says
The turn-off transition is more important and effective than the turn-on transition
End quote
And here another
Quote
TK says
The Lathe is the King of tools
And
The oscilloscope is the King of test equipment
See TK's Scoposcopy playlists
End quote

Respectfully submitted

And for perspective
The scopeoscopy play list is a big piece of a lifetime's experience chasing the beast ( how tricky it can be)
TK still hunts this elusive beast ( as does every "open source FE researcher

[AlienGrey]

Silly question but still ask it why isnt TK on OUR ?

Sil

[Chet K]

Too much  fighting and drama ( chases plenty away)
The world is overflowing with such fighting and Drama ( daily distractions)
Here it should be a total refuge geared towards research and experiments !
TK has written in the past
"Not enuff actual science /experiments" ( what this forum was founded on and actual reason
Our host still funds it...

Trying to change that so more persons will return with perhaps ideas towards actual experiments (as a few others are doing or trying to do here .

Will take some time , I am quite hopeful knowing the sincere builder / researchers are everywhere ( globally)
And not limited to any one forum...
the resources and talent available is mind boggling...( in open source community

IMO our future depends on it ...

[Chet K]

More from the oracle
Quote
TK says
To measure small, time-varying currents it is good to use a 1-ohm non-inductive resistor and measure the voltage drop across the resistor. Then apply Ohm's law. This can be done most easily with the oscilloscope.
End quote

Respectfully submitted