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Author Topic: The Patent Of William Barbat  (Read 152523 times)
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It's turtles all the way down
Here's the U.S. Patent of William Barbat for his energy generation / conversion device.

The patent is quite detailed and a good / fun read with lots of references and interesting research.

This may relate to the work of SM in some way. I researched this some years ago and recently Chet brought it up on OUR forum, so we have a new topic to discuss. Thanks Chet!.


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William Barbat's company:

http://www.levitronicsenergy.com/science.htm

contact:

Contact Levitronics, Inc.
William Barbat
President
503.697.1690
wbarbat@levitronicsenergy.com

Carolyn Hidy
Project Development Coordinator
406.827.3234

   

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Quote from Scientific Discussionpage of his site:

Quote
A high power-to-weight ratio similar to the 1920 boat demonstration is indicated for LME generators made with a semiconductor having a high Energy Magnification Factor. Such a generator could outcompete petroleum for all forms of transportation including propellor aircraft. A self-generator utilizing Lead Sulfide, with electron mass 0.16 times normal and a calculated inductive energy magnification factor of 39X, could theoretically power the world's one billion autos using less lead than is found in lead-acid batteries. Self-generators employing silicon might power all the world's homes and industries, and offer low-cost desalinization.

A self-generator is relatively simple in design, but it requires special laboratory facilities to make polycrystalline coatings of desired semiconductors. that can conduct large currents of LMEs. Levitronics seeks both laboratories and capital to test a relatively simple self-sustaining generator powered by the common photoconductor, cadmium sulfide, which has a calculated inductive energy magnification factor of 37X.
   
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ah yes let's take some Steven Mark and mix in with some A. Hubbard a pinch of Hans cohler and what's that? Hendershot?.

Seriously ?
Why are we following patents?

 :)
   

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ah yes let's take some Steven Mark and mix in with some A. Hubbard a pinch of Hans cohler and what's that? Hendershot?.

Seriously ?
Why are we following patents?

 :)


All of these devices probably utilize the same underlying principle.
   
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Grumpy,
Can you post the two links the buzz made in the other forum?
I read them before I called him today and they really helped!
I tried to put a link to them here but this pos machine I,m on won't let me!

You should call this guy!
He is most receptive ,and I told him you might call ,as you have more understanding than myself in these things!
Chet
PS
As I said at the other forum
We are just a group of friends with a very big interest in this lost science.
If / when you do call him use my name
Chet Kremens
We got along very well!!

PPS
Does the name Joseph Lamar or larmars mean anything (low mass electron research)
I never ask people to repeat themselves!
   
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All of these devices probably utilize the same underlying principle.

Yup it's called BS

Now you're saying either all of these devices work or all of these devices do not work.
I know alot of them do not work so we have a conflict in case you say they all work.

 :)
   

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Yup it's called BS

Now you're saying either all of these devices work or all of these devices do not work.

I know alot of them do not work so we have a conflict in case you say they all work.

 :)


Yes, I should have said "if" they work, then they "probably" utilize the same principle.  Hard to say without any useful data or inherent understanding of the "principle".  However, Barbat is now saying he needs expensive coatings to get the OU goods.

The more important question:

Which devices actually work?
   
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Better question is "which effect is responsible"

   

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Better question is "which effect is responsible"



OK - which effect is responsible?
   
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I've been interested in this since early 2007 and continue to consider
it a valid pursuit (at least until I see it NOT work). Here's my thread where
you can see me stumbling towards learning, and the contributions of
others that either like or dislike the concept.

Please look it over to see if there's anything that sparks your interest.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2255.0

tak

   
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It's turtles all the way down
I posted this back in June 2008 back at OU. I was told I "missed the point" by "aether22". I can refute his critique, but will leave the reader to decide.

Several mysteries with this patent:

1. Why does Barbat not put his "sending coil" co-axially inside a magnifying coil made of copper tubing with a treated inside surface (photoconductive) such that all of the photonic induction can impinge on the inside surface of the magnifying coil tube.

A co-axial approach such as this would minimize radiated losses. Alternately a long copper pipe with inside surface treated and co-axial with  a wire running from end to end as the sending coil. With suitably spaced insulating washers or beads, this assembly could be wound into a coil and put into a pot core to completely contain stray fields.

2. Barbat has me confused in saying that normal transformer action is the result of photonic induction. If this is true, the photons have no trouble going through opaque insulating paper and wire varnish in a typical transformer. But then his arrangements seem to imply the photonic induction is like visible light and carefully places his devices to optimize direct illumination as if it were light.? Barbat tries to make the case that normal radio waves are the result of photonic induction into and out of antenna structures and then extends this to normal transformer action. Wikipedia seems to agree (def:photon)

3. The magnifying coil in fig.1a, 2a and 3 represent a shorted transformer winding.  This would cause extreme absorption of energy and heating of the magnifying coil. All of the energy will go to this winding in the form of heat, and nothing will be left for the output winding. Am I missing something? Now if it works, I don't mind having such a heater, but how does he get useful work into his output winding with a shorted winding absorbing everything?

Edit: After having thought about this it is possible to get some induction, as the magnifying coil will not be 100% absorptive of all flux.

Some ideas:

Does anyone think this will work? Purchase some 1/4 or 3/8 O.D. copper tubing. Clean the inside by circulating a mild acid using a small pump. Rinse with water, then circulate peroxide for as long as necessary.. Rinse again with water. Should have a nice uniform oxide coating on the inside.

Now thread a cotton insulated copper wire (sending coil)  through the center of the copper tubing.  The entire assembly can be formed onto a bobbin and set into a magnetic structure such as a large ferrite pot core.

Activating the sending coil, all of the photonic induction will impinge on the photoconductor on the inside wall of the tube, as they are co-axial. This should make the assembly highly efficient.

If you like you can add the work coil to the bobbin as an outer winding on top of the magnifying coil., but as is should make a pretty good heater if the kind of gains Barbat is claiming are anywhere near true.

Another method for oxidizing copper tubing interior would be to heat the tubing, while slowly running some pure oxygen through it.
=============================================================
Could this be the missing ingredient in the SM TPU? It satisfies several of the criteria, non-reciprocal induction,
runs with gain, feeds on it self, and generates excess heat in the main coil.

SM used a lot of zip cord in his devices, which is normally unplated copper and subject to oxidation. I've stripped back a lot of old zipcord and it is usually extremely oxidized and must be cleaned before it is able to take solder. Would this make it photoconductive?

If this has any truth, what we have been calling collectors are actually the emitters, and the toroidal winding of zipcord could be the collector.
« Last Edit: 2010-12-15, 18:10:50 by ION »


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If you are in the camp that says all electromagnetic forces are carried out by "photons", then all forms of induction are "photonic", so which form of induction is Barbat referring to?

It was G.N. Lewis that first postulated that "photons" carried radiation between atoms (and coined the term "photon"), and this was a very different idea than the light quantum of Planck, Einstein, and Bohr.  So, what kind of "photon" are we talking about here?

SM did mention that a TPU made from corroded wire worked very well, but if there is a connection to Barbat's device, is it the cuprous oxide or the photons?
   
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If you are in the camp that says all electromagnetic forces are carried out by "photons", then all forms of induction are "photonic", so which form of induction is Barbat referring to?

It was G.N. Lewis that first postulated that "photons" carried radiation between atoms (and coined the term "photon"), and this was a very different idea than the light quantum of Planck, Einstein, and Bohr.  So, what kind of "photon" are we talking about here?

SM did mention that a TPU made from corroded wire worked very well, but if there is a connection to Barbat's device, is it the cuprous oxide or the photons?

From wikipedia:

"In physics, a photon is an elementary particle, the quantum of the electromagnetic interaction and the basic unit of light and all other forms of electromagnetic radiation. It is also the force carrier for the electromagnetic force."

It is both the cuprous oxide (that produces the low mass electrons) and the photons that are radiated from a source (lightbulb, antenna) and impinge on to the photosensitive cuprous oxide coating.

That was one slip by SM that may have given away his secret ingredient......photoconductive oxide on the wire of the "collector"


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if so, conductivity may be enhanced by a dual-photon effect initiated by a pulse

EDIT:

Also the semiconductor layer softens the transition between the dielectric and the conductor, which may increase diffusion and thus the number of active electrons in flow.
   
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Hi,
Does Otto's single wire experiment have any relevance? When he used solder the output voltages were higher. I assumed this was an effect of its resistance, bemf etc.
Just a thing I remembered as a
Steve.
   
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I just remembered one other thing that Mr. Barbat said to me yesterday,

The coils were very Fragile because of the angel hair thin wire that he used.

Something that Tony [agentgates} also said was required in his posta at OU ,very thin wire
so as to get an event going with less power and more control [Tony's reasoning]
I got the impression from Tony that the pulse in the thin wire would approach Bursting easier
and get things jumping around for collection!

Have no idea if this is why Williiam was using thin wire in his prototypes?

Chet
   

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Maybe "thin wire" gives you "more wire" in the same space and if you have a weak effect, more wire makes it stronger.

He shows three coils - did all three have thin wire or just one coil?

(I have my own interpretatin and some hot irons in the fire.)
   

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Buy me some coffee
The bifeld brown effect or asymetric capacitor effect, lift is much more pronounced by using very thin wire for one of the elctrodes.

I am not sure i fully understand this Bahbat photo conductive idea, could we not just use a selenium based solar cell as the collector or even a silicon solar cell and just fire sharp pulses at it.

The Cook coil patent if anyone remembers was a simple device but no one could get it working, maybe it's because all our copper wire is annealed and therefore cannot oxize like the good old stuff that was once available.
   
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I've been interested in this since early 2007 and continue to consider
it a valid pursuit (at least until I see it NOT work). Here's my thread where
you can see me stumbling towards learning, and the contributions of
others that either like or dislike the concept.

Please look it over to see if there's anything that sparks your interest.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2255.0
tak
I got this to work, but only after I re-entered the full patent application number on the search line at:

http://www.pat2pdf.org

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20070007844.pdf

Opinion:
I like patents, since they're easy to access, unclassified and therefore usually no bother to law enforcement organizations and also they can present a basic function of an "underlying principle", as it was put in the thread above.


NOTE:
Advanced Patent Search at Google.com says this application doesn't exist:
http://www.google.com/patents?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=patent%3A20070007844

       However, as I said above, going to www.pat2pdf.org and entering the full Application number (20070007844) on the default request line of www.pat2pdf.org will get you the application by Barbat.
« Last Edit: 2017-05-13, 21:45:32 by the_big_m_in_ok »


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It's turtles all the way down
The bifeld brown effect or asymetric capacitor effect, lift is much more pronounced by using very thin wire for one of the elctrodes.

Quote
I am not sure I fully understand this Barbat photo conductive idea, could we not just use a selenium based solar cell as the collector or even a silicon solar cell and just fire sharp pulses at it.

The idea is that the photoconductive layer (Cuprous oxide) is part of the surface of a good conductor (copper). The low mass electrons released induce strong currents in the copper coil when it is closed into a loop. When coupled to another coil / capacitor, an oscillating energy can be produced extracted. SM may have been satisfied with the DC induction in the absorption loop.

Quote
The Cook coil patent if anyone remembers was a simple device but no one could get it working, maybe it's because all our copper wire is annealed and therefore cannot oxidize like the good old stuff that was once available.

I remember pondering this very thought when I first read the Barbat patent and wondered how many devices may have been built using this effect that are nowadays difficult to reproduce without this missing ingredient of the Cu oxide layer. Barbat goes into this in his patent. I urge all to read the patent in it's entirety, especially the historical part.



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I remember pondering this very thought when I first read the Barbat patent and wondered how many devices may have been built using this effect that are nowadays difficult to reproduce without this missing ingredient of the Cu oxide layer. Barbat goes into this in his patent. I urge all to read the patent in it's entirety, especially the historical part.
Barbat considered other photoconductive compounds besides the cupric oxide, in the patent, right?  Would it make any difference if it's easier to get more power out with which to prove or disprove OU generation?  I admit these other coumponds can be rare and difficult to come by.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Barbat considered other photoconductive compounds besides the cupric oxide, in the patent, right?  Would it make any difference if it's easier to get more power out with which to prove or disprove OU generation?  I admit these other coumponds can be rare and difficult to come by.

--Lee


I would be very happy to see strong currents induced in a heavy copper wire loop (with photoconductive surface) from photon impingement. Efficiency, energy extraction methods and possible OU can be explored later.

First we need proof of concept.

Here's the patent application and the World patent


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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
The patent mentioned in the Barbat patent:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4835433.pdf


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Tesla wrote of an effect that sounds "related" but without the need for cuprous oxide:


EDIT: with higher voltage and faster rate of change, semiconductor coatings may not be required
   
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