The 2026 solenoid plunger competition

[Allcanadian]

We can start by establishing the rules for the 2026 solenoid plunger competition here.
1)a standard 1/2" x 3" mild steel slug free to move within the solenoid coil former. I cut down a 1/2" mild steel bolt to 3".

2)a charged capacitor of known value as the only energy source. Capacitors do not lie and it's easy to calculate the initial and final energy in a capacitor using E=1/2CV^2.
No batteries or power supplies can be attached to the system when in operation. The capacitor(s) can be any reasonable size or voltage but must have a known capacitance.

3)the output will be measured by the length of time in seconds the slug remains suspended before coming to rest at it's original position versus the energy input.
In other words the Joules(J) of energy used E=1/2CV^2 versus the time the slug remains suspended.

4)The solenoid coil setup can have any size, geometry, number of windings etc. The only limitation is that the solenoid coil and former be made with non-magnetic materials such as plastic, aluminum, copper. The drive circuit and switching can be anything we want.

These rules can be modified as needed.
Good luck

*Note, the solenoid coil/slug are just an easy way to measure the conversion efficiency of the system driving it. The longer the run time the greater the efficiency.

[Magluvin]

Good idea.  Question...  so the slug..  Does it dead center in the drive coil on the in cycle or does it make 2 passes at dead center for 1 rev of the rotor?   


Mags

[Allcanadian]

Good idea.  Question...  so the slug..  Does it dead center in the drive coil on the in cycle or does it make 2 passes at dead center for 1 rev of the rotor?   


Mags

Take a long 1/2" mild steel bolt and cut 3" from the non threaded part. This is the slug which moves inside our solenoid coil like the picture below. The longer the time the slug is held by the magnetic field of the solenoid coil per unit of energy input the more efficient the system is.

The solenoid coil is just an easy way to measure the efficiency of our coil geometry and drive circuit. For example, dump a capacitor into the solenoid coil and the slug moves upward for 1 second before falling back down. However use a better coil and more efficient drive circuit and the slug could stay up for 5 seconds. Reduce near all the losses and the slug could stay up and never come back down. In the art this is called a "permanent electromagnet".

[Itsu]

Only 5% of the worlds countries use the imperial system, so would it not be more appropriate to use the metric system for the bolt?

Itsu

[Magluvin]

1/2in is very close to 13mm.
3in is 760mm 

Mags

[unimmortal]

Can the slug be wrapped in wire?

Can magnets be used in any way?

Assumption is that we are testing system efficiency/performance against gravity?

What specifics of the device are needed to be included with entry?

What is the preferred capacitor if this is to be the standard to measure against?

What's the prize for suspending the slug in the former the longest?

[Allcanadian]

unimmortal
Can the slug be wrapped in wire?- No

Can magnets be used in any way?- No

Assumption is that we are testing system efficiency/performance against gravity?- Yes

What specifics of the device are needed to be included with entry?
The Capacitor value, starting voltage and final voltage which are used to calculate the energy used, E=1/2CV^2. As well as the time in seconds the slug was suspended.

What is the preferred capacitor if this is to be the standard to measure against?
Whatever capacity and voltage works with your system.

What's the prize for suspending the slug in the former the longest?
The satisfaction you succeeded where countless others claiming to know better didn't.

[Allcanadian]

I use an Arduino to monitor the capacitor start vs final voltage and time but there is an easier option.

1)Measure capacitor start voltage
2)Take a video showing when the slug rises and comes to rest. Use the frame times in the video to calculate the time the slug was suspended.
3)Measure the capacitor final voltage.
4)Use this formula (energy in Joules = 1/2 C V^2) to calculate the capacitor start and final energy. Minus the final energy from the start energy to determine the energy used.
5)The energy in Joules used divided by the time in seconds gives us the Joules/second.
6)The lower the Joules/second the greater the efficiency.
7)The best efficiency wins.

[Magluvin]

so we are not actually building the motor. we are just pulling the slug upwards and holding till it drops?


Mags

[Magluvin]

If so....

then we should all be using the same slug, size and weight. 

if we are enabled to make the solenoid to measurement as specified, then the wire size and number of turns would be our choice, correct?

and a starting point for he slug would most likely be at a height that the solenoid can actually be pulled up by the coil/voltage, depending on the difference in wire and number of turns, I assume.

mags

[Itsu]

then we should all be using the same slug, size and weight. 

 

Itsu

[Magluvin]

just from the pic ac pesented, it looks like 3 individual coils. a middle and 2 others on each end.

some relays use 2 windings. they are at times called bifilar.  but the gist is that one winding is many turns of fine wire and the other is fewer turns of larger wire. the goal of it is to pull the relay arm/armature into contact using the larger wire size, fewer turns, and then switch to the finer wire of many turns to hold the armature in place.  all to conserve winding input power if the relay contacts need to remain on for extended time periods.  some large relays in railroad/subway control boxes use them.

the fine wire winding of many turns does not have enough pull to get the  relay to initially make contact, but once the switch has made contact, the winding does have enough pull to keep the contacts in place at much less current input.

used to work with Union Switch and Signal.

mags

mags

[Allcanadian]

Magluvin
So we are not actually building the motor. we are just pulling the slug upwards and holding till it drops?
- Yes

Then we should all be using the same slug, size and weight.
- Yes, a 1/2" x 3" mild steel slug as outlined in the first post and my picture.

If we are enabled to make the solenoid to measurement as specified, then the wire size and number of turns would be our choice, correct?
- Yes, all of this is explained in the first post. I showed the solenoid coils I will be using but you can use anything you want.

I chose a solenoid coil test because it is the simplest and cheapest way to demonstrate the efficiency of an electrical system. Motors require a rotor, bearings, balancing and complex switching where a solenoid coil dies not. Anyone can build a solenoid coil and I built my first coil attached to a battery to attract paper clips when I was 6 years old. Anyone can do it with minimal cost.

[Magluvin]

im not going to present an entry too this competition. 

im thinking that if i made a coil, a single coil, that pulled the slug up into the coil, that simply a latch could catch the slug and hold it indefinitely or as long as i wish, and the latch may be released with less than the energy it would take to hold the slug 'up' for an indeterminate holding time.  so im out...

i understand that you want a lesson to be learned. but i dont think this is one that needs time spent beyond what i have worked out in my head on this so far..  like how did you get to this point by building the motor that you first presented?  i think the bifilar relay workings would be the best way to do as you ask.  i see the 3 coils you have shown as one assy.   but there is possibly more to it than that... the tube it is wound on... is that magnetic?  looks like it might be.  if so, maybe you are using a Leedscalnin effect to possibly hold the slug indefinately, till some reverse current is applied to the coil to release it. 

i dont have time to go through all that to get it perfected. in the beginning i was thinking this was going to be a helpfull idea.  but now im thinking that i have other coils need to wind....

not to be mean...  im just out.

mags

[Allcanadian]

Magluvin

I understand that you want a lesson to be learned. but i dont think this is one that needs time spent beyond what i have worked out in my head on this so far..  like how did you get to this point by building the motor that you first presented?  i think the bifilar relay workings would be the best way to do as you ask.  i see the 3 coils you have shown as one assy.   but there is possibly more to it than that... the tube it is wound on... is that magnetic?  looks like it might be.  if so, maybe you are using a Leedscalnin effect to possibly hold the slug indefinately, till some reverse current is applied to the coil to release it. 

I have a different perspective.

Many people want to start with the most complex devices and concepts then fail. Where the actual inventor of a device does the exact opposite. An inventor starts with something very basic to understand every aspect of the technology and then expands on the idea once it is understood. This is why we hear everyone saying they built a device but have no idea how it works. They are doing everything backwards.

if so, maybe you are using a Leedscalnin effect to possibly hold the slug indefinately, till some reverse current is applied to the coil to release it.

A person could do this but they would only be cheating themselves. The whole point is to energize a solenoid coil and conserve as much of the input energy as possible. Not cheat ourselves just to win which is the wrong perspective. The fact remains, the longer the magnetic field can act on the plunger the more work it does. The amount of time a force is applied to the plunger relates directly to the amount of work the plunger can perform.

Look at the Magnipulsion solenoid engine found here, https://rexresearch.com/teal/teal.htm

It's a solenoid engine however the crankshaft and connecting rod are not needed. We could reduce this device down to one solenoid acting on an iron plunger against the force of gravity. The longer the coil remains energized per unit of time the more work it can perform. We also use capacitors instead of a battery to ensure we are not fooling ourselves with questionable measurements. Capacitors do not lie and the voltage relates directly to the amount of energy in them.

[Verpies]

The fact remains, the longer the magnetic field can act on the plunger the more work it does. The amount of time a force is applied to the plunger relates directly to the amount of work the plunger can perform.

Force times time is not equal to work.
Force times distance - is.

Thus, when the slug is not moving then it is not doing any work no matter the force.  My chandelier says so.

Capacitors do not lie and the voltage relates directly to the amount of energy in them.

What about the dielectric soak in certain types of caps ?

[polyrhythm]

I like this idea of stripping it down, reducing variables and optimizing a single factor to understand mechanisms at work. Verpies makes a valid point re force × distance rather than force × time. I think the aim woild be something like:

Measure cap voltage c1
Apply capacitor to inductor to move the slug
Measure c1 voltage and calculate energy input (0.5cv2^2-0.5cv1^2) to energy out (mgh would do an okay job at this)

Obviously there can be steps between these to try optimize final efficiency calcuation but the amount of time it holds it in place is less of a factor, unless I'm missing something?

[Allcanadian]

Polyrhythm

I like this idea of stripping it down, reducing variables and optimizing a single factor to understand mechanisms at work. Verpies makes a valid point re force × distance rather than force × time.

Yes I could have been more clear and I'm aware Work=Force x Distance. My thinking was...

1)A Force is applied on the electrons in the circuit causing them to move a Distance. The work done on the electrons is the electric current.
2)The electric current produces a magnetic field which acts on the plunger.
3)The more Time the plunger is held in place by the magnetic field the more work must be done on the electrons in this device.

We could generalize and say were measuring the Power or change in Joules in the capacitors per second of Time the plunger is held in place. Most generalize which is why they always fail, imo.

Obviously there can be steps between these to try optimize final efficiency calcuation but the amount of time it holds it in place is less of a factor, unless I'm missing something?

Yes, we could ask what happens if we stop doing work on the electrons in the solenoid coil?. The plunger falls because when the electrons stopped moving the magnetic field collapsed and there was no longer a force to hold the plunger in place. So we can see the Work done (F x D) on the electrons relates directly to the Time the plunger is held in place.

You see in many devices the inventor claimed a single impulse was sent into the device and the current and magnetic field lasted much longer than normal. If the magnetic field lasts 3X longer then it can apply a force to a working element 3X longer so it can cover a greater distance doing more work. This is why some called the effect a "permanent electromagnet". One impulse is input into the device and the magnetic field lasts indefinitely. In effect it's no different than being able to switch a permanent magnet on and off with little or no input energy. This is why the output can be greater than the input.

Our solenoid coil test is just a variation on this theme. Once we learn to generate a magnetic field which lasts many times longer than normal then we can apply this principal to a solenoid engine or motor.

[Verpies]

Yes, we could ask what happens if we stop doing work on the electrons in the solenoid coil?.

In ideal coils, the charge carriers stop accelerating and continue to move uniformly thus the current persists indefinitely.
In imperfect coils the electric resistance decelerates the charge carriers and the current diminishes with time.

I have analyzed a similar situation here.

[Allcanadian]

In ideal coils, the charge carriers stop accelerating and continue to move uniformly thus the current persists indefinitely.
In imperfect coils the electric resistance decelerates the charge carriers and the current diminishes with time.

I have analyzed a similar situation here.

I understand what your saying in your analysis however for the average person it is unintelligible.

From experiment there is a much easier explanation imo. When an electron current begins to flow in a coil, the current produces an expanding magnetic field. The expanding magnetic field cuts the turns next to them inducing them which we call "self-induction". The induced voltage in each turn is in the opposite direction of the original voltage and opposes the rise of the current. This continues until the magnetic field stops expanding, the current stops rising and the current becomes constant. In effect, self-induction is just like mutual induction in a transformer except the primary and secondary are the same coil.

We don't need math to find the maximum efficiency of a coil and I just watch the input current. The moment the input current stops rising the magnetic field is done expanding and anymore current into the coil is basically wasted. This is why many people use a joule thief type circuit to drive their coils. When the pickup coil is no longer induced by the main coil's expanding magnetic field, it opens the circuit by turning the transistor off. So it's easy to operate a coil at max efficiency even when the variables are changing.

[polyrhythm]

I see, so you're more interested in field activity in an open loop magnetic circuit than mechanical output. The idea to use your two other coils as sensing coils/joule theif with diodes for positive or negative dL/dx movements and send small impulses to keep the lug hovering over a long period of time than would be possible with the equivalent DC (less joules of energy to maintain the field effect per unit time)? Makes me think of a parallel tank circuit, just topping up from resistive losses but oscillating power between fields until resistive losses eat it all up. Its got me thinking and I like that, but I'm still left woth wondering exactly why this is relating to overunity and not just intelligent power management where total joules is the same but the expressed power is different.

[Allcanadian]

I see, so you're more interested in field activity in an open loop magnetic circuit than mechanical output. The idea to use your two other coils as sensing coils/joule theif with diodes for positive or negative dL/dx movements and send small impulses to keep the lug hovering over a long period of time than would be possible with the equivalent DC (less joules of energy to maintain the field effect per unit time)? Makes me think of a parallel tank circuit, just topping up from resistive losses but oscillating power between fields until resistive losses eat it all up. Its got me thinking and I like that, but I'm still left woth wondering exactly why this is relating to overunity and not just intelligent power management where total joules is the same but the expressed power is different.

I just threw some coils on a former for the picture I showed as an example and it's not my actual setup.

The methodology is not difficult,
1)test a basic solenoid coil with a DC input as a baseline.
2)test a basic solenoid coil with a pulsed DC input where the pulse time period is at maximum efficiency.
3)test a modified solenoid coil with a pulsed DC input where a greater majority of the input energy is not dissipated in the coil.

You see the majority of FE inventors made claims of energy recovery or a reduction of losses. They claimed an impulse of energy could be sent through a coil performing work and 90% of the energy recovered. Which begs the question, what is the exact mechanism which dissipates energy in a coil or circuit, where does the mechanism occur, on what level and why?. One would think this is the first thing we should do but in fact nobody does.

[Verpies]

I understand what your saying in your analysis however for the average person it is unintelligible.

This makes me very sad.

When an electron current begins to flow in a coil, the current produces an expanding magnetic field. The expanding magnetic field cuts the turns next to them inducing them which we call "self-induction". The induced voltage in each turn is in the opposite direction of the original voltage and opposes the rise of the current. This continues until the magnetic field stops expanding, the current stops rising and the current becomes constant. In effect, self-induction is just like mutual induction in a transformer except the primary and secondary are the same coil.

This is correct conceptually and qualitatively but it lacks quantitative insight.

We don't need math to find the maximum efficiency of a coil and I just watch the input current. The moment the input current stops rising the magnetic field is done expanding and anymore current into the coil is basically wasted.

The problem is that the input current does not stop rising abruptly.  Its rate of change tapers off gradually and without math it is hard to determine when the break-even point (C) happens.

[Verpies]

Which begs the question, what is the exact mechanism which dissipates energy in a coil or circuit, where does the mechanism occur, on what level and why?.

Electric resistance and semiconductor voltage drops. The main dissipation mechanism is conversion of electric current into heat by the resistance at the rate equal to i²R ...or by semiconductor voltage drops at the rate  iV_DROP.

In cored inductors - also ferromagnetic hysteresis heating and magnetostriction/acoustics.
In rapidly switched systems - also EM radiation and dielectric heating and piezoelectrics/acoustics.

One would think this is the first thing we should do but in fact nobody does.

Itsu and I do (see here).

[Allcanadian]

Electric resistance and semiconductor voltage drops. The main dissipation mechanism is conversion of electric current into heat by the resistance at the rate equal to i²R ...or by semiconductor voltage drops at the rate  iV_DROP.

In cored inductors - also ferromagnetic hysteresis heating and magnetostriction/acoustics.
In rapidly switched systems - also EM radiation and dielectric heating and piezoelectrics/acoustics.

The main dissipation mechanism in a conductor is electron scattering where the linear motion of the free electrons is converted into random oscillations we call heat. The electron current provides the kinetic energy for the scattering effect. The voltage/electric field produces the Force on the electrons and the Distance they travel causes the scattering. This is why high voltage low current power produces very few losses. The scattering loss (heat) is proportional to the square of the current (I^2 R), cutting the current in half reduces the losses by 75%.

The real losses are insane, a 2000' #14 conductor running at 120v/10A (1200w) losses near 42% of it's power or 505 watts. Where the same conductor running at 30kV/40 mA (1200w) only losses 0.00067% of it's power or 0.00808 watts. This is why most FE inventors were converting the input to high voltage levels. The input could be 12v but the working circuit was generally always HV.