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OverUnity Research > Pulsed / Radiant Energy > Gray's Devices (Moderator: Spokane 1) > Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube
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Author Topic: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube  (Read 85773 times)
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #75 on: 2022-10-08, 10:18:32 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-08, 06:21:27
Look at the principle of operation and not the politics.

If you eliminate the politics from FE, i.e. the urban legends, the frauds and the conspiracy theories, there won't be much left (but the best). ;D


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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #76 on: 2022-10-08, 14:05:20 »

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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-08, 04:45:31
Hakasays,

That piece of information came from a man named Kenneth Hawkins around 2004. I ran into him on the phone after I located Gary's lawyer Joe Gordon. Mr. Hawkins sent me the first promotion video of Gray's presentation in 1986 from Counsel, ID. No one had ever seen that information before. Since then two more videos have shown up that were made in Texas.

As I understand it Mr. Hawkins and Norm Wooten worked together on Free Energy projects however they had a big falling out over ownership of one of their devices and have not gotten back together since. I believe that it was Mr. Hawkins that made the trip to Dodge City to recover the Black & White Motors, the Start Motor, fragments of a large popping coil (the Space shuttle model), a power supply. and the #3 motor case (which I display in my living room as a plant holder). It was Joe Gordon that told them where to go and who to talk to. I would guess it was in these field discussions that he picked up on the iron wire idea. Mr. Hawkins also said that "Gray" used mica capacitors. however its hard to find large capacity mica capacitors. Mr. Wooten went on to make the 2000 Gray Motor presentation in Miami.

Since then I have attempted to contact Mr. Hawkins with no luck. I have developed a lot of specific questions about his adventure. All this equipment was sold to Al Francouer for $5K.

So, I sat on this information for years until I could find out where it might fit in.

Mark McKay, PE

You are my favorite historian, thanks Mark :)

BTW, Giantkiller is another poster here that uses iron garden wire in a lot of experiments.  He's more into the Ed Leedskalnin Coral Castle and SM TPU work but there is a surprising amount of overlap between the various disciplines.


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img  Jerry Volland
Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #77 on: 2022-10-08, 15:22:18 »
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We're finally getting some good information coming in, with the possibility of moving forward.  I don't see any reason to rebuild my Tube, to replace the HV anode rod with copper.  With another experiment, I've gotten Radiant sparks coming off SS electrodes.

Next, I'll build *my* version of the electrostatic generator, to see if I can verify my understanding of what constitutes the non classical energy.  What I've been doing so far is just combining EMF with CEMF.  This works on some level, but I suspect there may be more to it than that.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #78 on: 2022-10-08, 23:22:03 »
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Here's a couple of pics of some more of my test circuits.  Both incorporate a phase shift, but the larger one also has a voltage difference.  (That one was vandalized a little by my fine furry felines, so it's not as neat as it once was).  These both use a 25 ohm, 250W power resistor.  I'm not really sure this is the right collimating value, but that's all the surplus house had.  Gray's power supply, on the demo carts, used a smaller component, as he was working with 12V, for that part of it.  I'll see what happens when I connect the resistor's output to a battery powered cap, as Gray did on his carts.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #79 on: 2022-10-09, 03:34:04 »
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Dear All,

Here are some other people who worked with Iron wire (or Rods for Mr. Benitez). Wyatt Prentice was an Electrical Engineer working for the Railroad in Canada. He was working on Land to Train wireless telegraph. In that work he discovered the patented process, however it was a commercial flop because of the size requirements. It should be noted in his patent he discloses that he used telegraph wire (he probably had a lot in his garage). Telegraph wire is #10AWG iron wire with a heavy coat of zinc.

It should be noted that the 1/2 mile of iron wire has an arc gap on each end. Except for the length this is very close in concept to what Mr. Volland  and Gary McGratten have worked with and can be found in the "Gray" 1985 CSET patent.

Mark McKay, PE
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #80 on: 2022-10-09, 20:08:23 »
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Dear All,

I would like to upload my July presentation for the benefit of those who are not familiar with the "Gray" technology. However it is a pdf file 7.8 MB in size. This posting service doesn't seem to like a file that large. Does anyone know what the file limit is? I can easily break it up in to smaller sub units.

The subject deals with the Hackenburger "Purple Motor", which I consider to be the Zenith of this technology. To bad it was butchered in 1981 by a well meaning technician. Assuming this motor actually worked, I know it actually ran (before the butcher job) but have no data about its OU performance.

For those of you that do decide to view the slides from the presentation I can provide additional schematics, photos, and of course a preponderance of speculations. There is also a huge volume of political debauchery that surrounds this subject.

For those of you who want to hear my Golden Tone that accompanied the presentation, then Aaron Maraikumi of the Energetic Forum has made (or will make) a downloadable file available for a fee. (around $25). Don't tell him, I'm making this available to the members of this group for the purpose of promoting the advancement of this technology.

Mark McKay, PE
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #81 on: 2022-10-09, 20:33:29 »
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Easy no signup no email or anything else needed - just upload and you get a link :  https://www.sendspace.com/
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #82 on: 2022-10-09, 20:59:46 »
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Quote from: e2matrix on 2022-10-09, 20:33:29
Easy no signup no email or anything else needed - just upload and you get a link :  https://www.sendspace.com/

Dear e2matrix,

There must be a little more to it than that. I push the "Upload" button after selecting the file and all it does is stall.

Mark McKay, PE
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #83 on: 2022-10-09, 21:17:38 »
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Mark
You could drop Peter a note in message board (administrator  Peterae )
I know he has been working on forum ( actually an ongoing task )
He will offer advice,
 late over in UK ATM… He has a vet busy work schedule , he will reply ( some one else may offer solutions
In the meantime!

Respectfully
Chet K
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #84 on: 2022-10-09, 22:32:40 »
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We will try this again with a smaller file parts

Mark McKay
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #85 on: 2022-10-09, 22:35:09 »
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Well, it seems the system can handle at least a 2.5 MB file, but no more than 2 files at a time. Part 2 got lost along the way last time.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #86 on: 2022-10-09, 23:44:45 »

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Mark,
In the beginning of this video back in 2012, you speak of "cold current", and that you believe it to be particulate with a short lifespan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-M0xKQTHdw

Have you determined what "cold current" is?
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #87 on: 2022-10-09, 23:55:38 »
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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-09, 03:34:04
Dear All,

Here are some other people who worked with Iron wire (or Rods for Mr. Benitez). Wyatt Prentice was an Electrical Engineer working for the Railroad in Canada. He was working on Land to Train wireless telegraph. In that work he discovered the patented process, however it was a commercial flop because of the size requirements. It should be noted in his patent he discloses that he used telegraph wire (he probably had a lot in his garage). Telegraph wire is #10AWG iron wire with a heavy coat of zinc.

It should be noted that the 1/2 mile of iron wire has an arc gap on each end. Except for the length this is very close in concept to what Mr. Volland  and Gary McGratten have worked with and can be found in the "Gray" 1985 CSET patent.

Mark McKay, PE

Thanks for uploading that file, Mark.  That should lay to rest any doubts about using Iron for Radiant Energy.  Twin antenna wires in the foreground are indicative of biphasic energy.  Plus, the tapers on both ends underline the importance of using individual lead out wires from the CSET grids.

@everyone:

Here's an image from the "motor found" video showing what I'm replicating with my double diode T-tap circuits.  The output wire from the collimating resistor goes to the big cap.  (The value of this resistor may have to be determined through substitution).  I've previously seen that exotic energy can drive a shape resonance effect.  My feeling is that this will dramatically reduce the capacitor's charging time, allowing for rapid pulse output to the special transformer.  (3,000 p/sec).
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #88 on: 2022-10-10, 01:04:16 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-09, 23:44:45
Mark,
In the beginning of this video back in 2012, you speak of "cold current", and that you believe it to be particulate with a short lifespan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-M0xKQTHdw

Have you determined what "cold current" is?

Dear Mr. Grumpy,

The short answer, No I have not.

Unfortunately I have not been able to develop or discover a process that reliably generates the non-classical novel energy we are looking for. Dr. Tesla's "Radiant Energy" was claimed by him to be a particle. Whatever experiment he used to prove this property has not been disclosed.

The cold aspect comes from reports of how the Hendershot device operated and how the electromagnets in the EMA4-E1 behaved during operation. E.V. Gray made a big deal of this aspect of this technology, be he had no clue as to why it was manifested or how it really related to classical physics (if at all). I am also told that the original Sweet VTM got cold during operation as well. Graham Gunderson was hired by a private party to vet a similar technology and established that during operation that device got cold as well. In fact he is now working on his own system that sucks ambient heat energy out of the environment to produce classical electricity. Apparently he claims that he has all the math to prove this process is legit within the Standard Model. The real issue is "Can you make Money with it?"

So, not having anything better to speculate on thinking of a cold particle with a short life time made sense at the time. Now day's, I have no idea what is being reported on. I do think we have a reasonable chance to re-create the process that might cause this release or transformation.  What comes out of it will be Ph.D. thesis material for for high energy particle studies for years. Perhaps it might be a classical particle (or wave) in a a exceptional excitation state.  It might be something new or one of Ken Shoulders "Charge Clusters". If I get fortunate enough to generate these things in quantity I shall then attempt to figure out what they might be. But really, that kind of research requires a three order magnitude increase in the sophistication of instrumentation.

Good question though. It gives me headaches in the evening when I think about it to much.

Mark McKay, PE (Fire Alarm Engineering)
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #89 on: 2022-10-10, 01:39:28 »

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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 01:04:16
Dear Mr. Grumpy,

The short answer, No I have not.

Unfortunately I have not been able to develop or discover a process that reliably generates the non-classical novel energy we are looking for. Dr. Tesla's "Radiant Energy" was claimed by him to be a particle. Whatever experiment he used to prove this property has not been disclosed.

The cold aspect comes from reports of how the Hendershot device operated and how the electromagnets in the EMA4-E1 behaved during operation. E.V. Gray made a big deal of this aspect of this technology, be he had no clue as to why it was manifested or how it really related to classical physics (if at all). I am also told that the original Sweet VTM got cold during operation as well. Graham Gunderson was hired by a private party to vet a similar technology and established that during operation that device got cold as well. In fact he is now working on his own system that sucks ambient heat energy out of the environment to produce classical electricity. Apparently he claims that he has all the math to prove this process is legit within the Standard Model. The real issue is "Can you make Money with it?"

So, not having anything better to speculate on thinking of a cold particle with a short life time made sense at the time. Now day's, I have no idea what is being reported on. I do think we have a reasonable chance to re-create the process that might cause this release or transformation.  What comes out of it will be Ph.D. thesis material for for high energy particle studies for years. Perhaps it might be a classical particle (or wave) in a a exceptional excitation state.  It might be something new or one of Ken Shoulders "Charge Clusters". If I get fortunate enough to generate these things in quantity I shall then attempt to figure out what they might be. But really, that kind of research requires a three order magnitude increase in the sophistication of instrumentation.

Good question though. It gives me headaches in the evening when I think about it to much.

Mark McKay, PE (Fire Alarm Engineering)

My latest idea of what "cold current" and "radiant energy" (That Tesla spoke of) is virtual particles "borrowed" from space.  This requires certain conditions be met.

Tesla's RE patent indicated the RE is produced by "space" (from the sky, even in the dark), a spark gap (his patent shows a curved reflector), and a Lenard tube.  All of these definitely indicate that RE is particulate even if temporary.

Back in the mid 2000's we were provided information on the TPU of Steven Mark on another OU forum by a user named Spherics.
His information has years of posts here but one basic method for production of RE is as follows:

A copper wire coil of at least 1000 feet, wound as a Brooks coil for high self-induction.
Around this coil, wind about 4 layers of heavier wire.  Supply this outer coil with DC of at least 24vdc.
Pulse this Brooks coil with a pulse that has a Vs high enough that voltage drop of at least 1500v occurs.
This coil will produce a field the greatly strengthens the magnetic field of the out coil.
I used to have a video of this with 10kv pulses, showing the burst on the outer coil when scoped.

Spherics exposed a few other ways that this RE occurs.

If you think this may be related I can catalog the methods for you to explore further.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #90 on: 2022-10-10, 05:23:21 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 01:39:28

My latest idea of what "cold current" and "radiant energy" (That Tesla spoke of) is virtual particles "borrowed" from space.

Dear Mr. Grumpy

Didn't Stephen Hawking's expound on this idea in his theories on black holes and "Hawking" Radiation. I understand that the concept of "borrowed" from space is part of the standard model for virtual particles and a process that allows the quarks in protons to stay glued together. (Along with 200 other particles). So borrowed energy is now main stream (at least in Quantum Mechanics).

Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 01:39:28

Tesla's RE patent indicated the RE is produced by "space" (from the sky, even in the dark), a spark gap (his patent shows a curved reflector), and a Lenard tube.  All of these definitely indicate that RE is particulate even if temporary.


That is a start but keep in mind that high frequency RF can also benefit from a curved reflector. I don't recall just what the classical experiment was that proved that photons were particles. I believe it has something to do with double slits. It will probably be a while before we can apply this technique to "Radiant Energy" because we currently don't have a reliable generator.


Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 01:39:28

Back in the mid 2000's we were provided information on the TPU of Steven Mark on another OU forum by a user named Spherics.
His information has years of posts here but one basic method for production of RE is as follows:

A copper wire coil of at least 1000 feet, wound as a Brooks coil for high self-induction.
Around this coil, wind about 4 layers of heavier wire.  Supply this outer coil with DC of at least 24vdc.
Pulse this Brooks coil with a pulse that has a Vs high enough that voltage drop of at least 1500v occurs.
This coil will produce a field the greatly strengthens the magnetic field of the out coil.
I used to have a video of this with 10kv pulses, showing the burst on the outer coil when scoped.

Spherics exposed a few other ways that this RE occurs.


I don't think we have testing procedures (yet) to establish if the observed phenomena was "Radiant Energy" or something else. According to Gary Vassilatos the output of the Tesla "Lenard Tube" was a laser like energy blast. Was Mr. Spherics able to demonstrate this kind of quality, say for 300 yards or so? If not then I would say he is on to something else.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 01:39:28

If you think this may be related I can catalog the methods for you to explore further.

Right now I don't see where iron is used as an active element in the proposed process. I do wish him and his fellow researchers the best of luck in developing their discoveries. Thank you very much for the offer. Who knows, I could stumble on to something and come calling on  you very quickly.

Mark McKay
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #91 on: 2022-10-10, 15:48:42 »

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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 05:23:21
Didn't Stephen Hawking's expound on this idea in his theories on black holes and "Hawking" Radiation. I understand that the concept of "borrowed" from space is part of the standard model for virtual particles and a process that allows the quarks in protons to stay glued together. (Along with 200 other particles). So borrowed energy is now main stream (at least in Quantum Mechanics).
I had no idea borrowing energy is mainstream.  Thanks for pointing this out.

Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 05:23:21
That is a start but keep in mind that high frequency RF can also benefit from a curved reflector. I don't recall just what the classical experiment was that proved that photons were particles. I believe it has something to do with double slits. It will probably be a while before we can apply this technique to "Radiant Energy" because we currently don't have a reliable generator.
We may have reliable ones, but they require some sort of verification which may prove difficult without knowing what exactly RE is.

Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 05:23:21
I don't think we have testing procedures (yet) to establish if the observed phenomena was "Radiant Energy" or something else. According to Gary Vassilatos the output of the Tesla "Lenard Tube" was a laser like energy blast. Was Mr. Spherics able to demonstrate this kind of quality, say for 300 yards or so? If not then I would say he is on to something else.

Lenard tubes are known to produce electrons.  Here is a replication where the builder says it behaves like beta radiation, and says it appears to be electrons.  He only used 12kv.
http://www.tuopeek.com/lenard.html

Here is an old article on the measurement of Lenard Rays, (attached), They used 160kv, list the max range is about 15 mm in air, and say the energy is about 60 electron kv.  It shows some Lenard ray "collectors".

I would guess that Tesla used much higher voltage and may have seen something other than electrons, especially if the range is much further.

Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 05:23:21
Right now I don't see where iron is used as an active element in the proposed process. I do wish him and his fellow researchers the best of luck in developing their discoveries. Thank you very much for the offer. Who knows, I could stumble on to something and come calling on  you very quickly.

Mark McKay

Spherics told us how iron wire is used as a delay element in a bifilar coil method used by Steven Mark in his TPU's.  PeterAE (one of the owners of this forum) explored this method for some time and verified that what Spherics said was correct to some degree.  With delays on one leg of the bifilar of about 180ns to 220ns, the applied pulses are compressed into a large narrow pulse.  It is quite easy to produce but also quite problematic as it affected anything near it (electronics/magnets).  The iron wire has to be away form the bifilar for it to work.  Any iron near the RE producing coil causes it to not work.  Note that bifilar coils used in this way make loud popping sounds when the delay is adjusted for maximum pulse peak.  This was with only 30v.  I can't imagine what KV's would do.

All of the methods of RE production that Spherics shared are low power compared to anything Tesla or Ed Gray did.  He used RE to interact with a magnetic field or gravity to induce a current in a coil.  He explained a couple of methods for RE detection, and ways to charge batteries and capacitors.  Spherics mentioned cold current, but never explained what it is.  Hence my initial question.

I'll put a quick pdf together of the RE stuff from Spherics.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #92 on: 2022-10-10, 21:39:46 »

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I put the PDF of notes from what Spherics said about RE here:

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4335.msg101421#msg101421
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #93 on: 2022-10-10, 22:08:40 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 15:48:42
Spherics told us how iron wire is used as a delay element in a bifilar coil method used by Steven Mark in his TPU's. 

Well, that is interesting. So at least one version of the TUP employed iron wire for delay line control but was found to interfere with other parts of the circuit. Now I can add one more inventor that employed iron wire in their apparatus.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 15:48:42
All of the methods of RE production that Spherics shared are low power compared to anything Tesla or Ed Gray did. 

Nathan Stubblefield is probably the undisputed master of low energy RE generation (if that is what he produced). The excitation power for his “Terminal Coils” came from the electromotive voltage difference between the copper and iron at 0.78 V (aka the Egyptian Battery). I suspect he placed several of these cells in series but probably not more than 24 VDC worth. The real magic was in the switching system (as it is today). He gave us good details of the coil construction but zip on the contacts that activated when the system current reached a certain level.

I hope I can observe some interesting responses with my exploration of current saturated iron coil windings in my Stubblefield replication coil.

I shall look forward to reading your material on Mr. Spherics work. Who knows another clue is a good clue.

Mark McKay
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #94 on: 2022-10-10, 22:15:12 »

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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 22:08:40
Well, that is interesting. So at least one version of the TUP employed iron wire for delay line control but was found to interfere with other parts of the circuit. Now I can add one more inventor that employed iron wire in their apparatus.

Nathan Stubblefield is probably the undisputed master of low energy RE generation (if that is what he produced). The excitation power for his “Terminal Coils” came from the electromotive voltage difference between the copper and iron at 0.78 V (aka the Egyptian Battery). I suspect he placed several of these cells in series but probably not more than 24 VDC worth. The real magic was in the switching system (as it is today). He gave us good details of the coil construction but zip on the contacts that activated when the system current reached a certain level.

I hope I can observe some interesting responses with my exploration of current saturated iron coil windings in my Stubblefield replication coil.

I shall look forward to reading your material on Mr. Spherics work. Who knows another clue is a good clue.

Mark McKay

Steven Mark found out latter that he could wrap the iron wire delay pieces with the other coils if he wrapped all of them with a solenoid coil supplied with DC.  Apparently magnetizing the iron wire allows the compressed pulse to be produced in the bifilar coils, else the iron wire prevents it from occurring.

You have been working on this for many years. What is the status of your Ed Gray research today?

Did you ever reproduce the popping coils?
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #95 on: 2022-10-10, 22:16:15 »
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The Stubble field Coil didn't seem to come in.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #96 on: 2022-10-10, 22:46:58 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 22:15:12
Steven Mark found out latter that he could wrap the iron wire delay pieces with the other coils if he wrapped all of them with a solenoid coil supplied with DC.  Apparently magnetizing the iron wire allows the compressed pulse to be produced in the bifilar coils, else the iron wire prevents it from occurring.

There is probably something that needs to be explored further here.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 22:15:12

You have been working on this for many years. What is the status of your Ed Gray research today?

I can share 47 Good ideas that didn't work. This latest one could turn out to be #48

Quote from: Grumpy on 2022-10-10, 22:15:12

Did you ever reproduce the popping coils?

Yes, Three different versions, but none of them had iron wire. All I was able to get was COP's between 7% and 9%

Mark McKay
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #97 on: 2022-10-10, 22:58:25 »

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Quote from: Spokane 1 on 2022-10-10, 22:46:58

Yes, Three different versions, but none of them had iron wire. All I was able to get was COP's between 7% and 9%

Mark McKay

How were they wound and how were they pulsed?

What was Ed Gray getting?

EDIT:
The static floating flux field would be what Spherics called a SEP coil (Static Ether Pattern)

Did you try a static magnetic field around the popping coils, or a DC offset so that the pulse is switched over a few hundred volts of DC?
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #98 on: 2022-10-10, 23:08:40 »
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Dear All,

There certainly seems to be a lot of interest in Reply #87 that shows part of the Power Supply that came with the Gold Motor.
Al Francouer of Canada provided those high resolution photos a few years ago. 114 downloads to date.

The attached phot is an index of the other photos that came with that series. Let me know if any of these hold the same degree of interest.
   
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Re: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube « Reply #99 on: 2022-10-10, 23:49:41 »
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Quote
The Stubble field Coil didn't seem to come in.

I don't think that coil will work as stubblefield intended.

It's very likely the stubblefield battery was similar to what McFarland Cook described as the two wire/one core version of his device. As well in the old days inventors had to be more ingenious because materials and technology were hard to come by. For example, many used copper and iron wire to perform more than one function. Inductor/transformer action, un-coated oxidized copper/iron wire can act as oxide surface rectifiers, if whetted by mineral/salt water a battery or all the above.

Even more ingenious was using multi-layer/multi-metal oxidized substrates to act similar to the doped layer/band gap of solar cell. As we now know certain solar cells having different doped layers can even work at night harnessing different kinds of energy.

That's the problem with inventors and we throw everything including the kitchen sink at a problem until something works. A normal person tends to see what they want to see but an inventor can sometimes see countless variations and possibilities. I mean, did anyone here entertain the possibility that the alternate copper/iron winding/layers could also act like an oxide layer rectifier?, probably not. Most think in terms of simple lumped sum elements not said element spread over the surface of another element in any number of different ways. It is more a defect of our modern age where we are taught habitual thinking and behavior which didn't exist 100 years ago.

That's the problem and the fun in these devices and patents because nothing is ever as it seems. It's like a big puzzle where the inventor has hidden many of the pieces and it's our goal to track them down...

AC


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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