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Author Topic: Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube  (Read 78382 times)
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Hi guy's  :)

Here are some pics of my conversion tube and the capacitors + oil filled transformers.
I have done some testing with intresting results. but more tests need to be done.

Also Here is a nice collection of pictures:

http://www.universalpower.webs.com/gallery/Edwin%20Vincent%20Gray/index.html

Marco.

« Last Edit: 2009-12-15, 19:08:29 by Turbo »
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Nice job on the Gray tube. Also looks like you scored some decent HV transformers. What kVA rating are they? And secondary voltage?
Be careful man those things look deadly.....but I'm sure you are very experienced around HV. Hope to see some of those interesting results.

Regards.....ION


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Buy me some coffee
Hi Marco

Good to see you over here, nice build thanks for showing us.

Peter
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Shows up alot of places.
If this configuration appears with alot of people who made claims, including Telsa(Ahem). Why does this not show up in the experimenters arena?
The perpetraitors of this design copied Tesla.
L1 is 1/4 the length of L2. This means that the L1 drive entails the electron clockwise spin or the magnetic part if the sine.



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Hi Guy's  :)

@ION

The Transformers put out 3Kv at 6ma.
They are not so deadly...But the caps are  :)
I have 3 of them.

@Paul

The picture you just posted reminds me of the same setup Eric P Dollard used in his experiments.
He reffers to it as the balanced coil system, and he explaines the charges moves too fast over the windings that there is a chocking effect on the electrons so they can't move that fast and this gives rise to the cold curent...

He also respects the primary divided or equal multiple of secondary coil rules..

Marco.
« Last Edit: 2009-12-16, 00:43:18 by Turbo »
   

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Frequency equals matter...


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@Marco,
I see nothing but air core. Same as Smith's.


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Hi Marco,

Nice! mein Gott, that cap looks punchy and dangerous.
   

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The Grey tube may be similar to the Optical Generator of Patents 3781601 and 4260933.   If so, additional capacitance between the arc gap electrodes may make a difference in the Grey Tube as may placing the gap in the center of the screen, and filling the space of the tube with a noble gas.  Helium is readily available at stores in balloon kits.   Just vacuum out the air and back-fill with He.



   
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What makes you think Gray's tubes were filled with a noble gas?

Marco.
   

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What makes you think Gray's tubes were filled with a noble gas?

Marco.

I thought that noble gases may increase the polarization radiation.  (They would also alter the permittivity inside the tube.)  Whenever a gas is "polarized" or "ionized" some form of radiation is emitted and often several forms.

A solenoid coil around the tube would alter the permeability of the space in the tube and may prove beneficial.

Increasing the permittivity or permeability of space also alters the speed of propagation of energy travelling throug it - slowing it down.  So the oil in the Optical generators will slow down anything radiating from the gap an the oil will also be polarized and might be constantly repolarized, providing charge to the outer can.

Radiation can transfer "momentum" from a photon or particle to another photon or particle (this includes virtual photons that make up fields).  Repeated "radiation" becomes cumulative and if you can keep your little carrier energized it can keep transferring momentum - hint hint.

Both the Grey tube and the optical generator in the two patents referenced show a continuously charge collector.  "Collector" is a term used to describe something that receives radiation (from an emitter - for example).  Radiation may be particulate or photonic and is produced whenever something changes velocity (is accelerated or decelerated as in bremsstrahlung).

So, RE is probably "polarization radiation" which is photonic - hence the "neutral particles" that don't deflect.  It's cause is the sudden change in polarization of the circuit and the amount of polarizable constituents as well as their degree of polarizability.   (Xenon has a high degree of polarizabilty.)
   
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This gas thing applies more to the correa's PAGD tube then to the Gray tube.
We know the PAGD tube is filled with argon.

The Gray tube uses perforated recieving grids.
There is no indication that it contained any noble gas.

Also, my bet is on the electrons, not the photons.
If you shoot one electron towards another it has to move....you can never put two in the same place.(kinetic)
But you can squeeze as much photons in a box as you like....(radiation)

Marco.
   

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This gas thing applies more to the correa's PAGD tube then to the Gray tube.
We know the PAGD tube is filled with argon.

The Gray tube uses perforated recieving grids.
There is no indication that it contained any noble gas.

Also, my bet is on the electrons, not the photons.
If you shoot one electron towards another it has to move....you can never put two in the same place.(kinetic)
But you can squeeze as much photons in a box as you like....(radiation)

Marco.

The Grey tube uses more than one grid connected together.  Anything with high "momentum" will transfer energy to something else it hits - like a photon hitting an electron.  If the photon has more energy than the electron can take, then the photon may continue through the material.  Also, the electron that got hit may emit a photon which may hit the next grid.  I do not thnk that Grey actually used a noble gas, only that he could have had he wanted to, and suggesting that you try it with a noble gas.

Photons are the momentum carriers (also called simply the "force carriers" of electromagnetism).

You can bet your ass that "electrons" are not coming off a coil that you hit with a monster pulse, it is not electrons that charge caps and batteries that are not connected to the circuit, and that they are not penetrating the oil dielectric of the Optical Generator, and also that they were not vaporizing the aluminum foil that Tesla held near his Magnifier coils.

Do you have a photomultiplier tube?  If not, I'll find th info on the Vortex1 RE detector. 

The re-triggering of semiconductor devices (especially optocouplers) is also not caused by electrons.

Come on Bro!  Time to move past the "electron hurdle"...
   
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Come on Bro!  Time to move past the "electron hurdle"...


I don't think so,

There are some rules in QT/QED that explain the phenomena of secondary emission.
This is for example the pauli exclusion principle.
It states that no two identical fermions may occupy the same quantum state simultaneously.
Since electrons are fermions this rule boils down to the simple rule that no two electrons may exist at the same place at the same time.
So if one fires one electron at another one, the second one has to move because they cannot exist in the same place.
Try doing that with just one photon...
This is a good explenation how momentum is being transferred between particles.
It's like the guy that shoots a billiard ball aimed at the triangle formation and they all move because they cant exist at the same place.(kinetic)
You could compare the movement of the other balls with secondary emission.

Note *This is extremly Stiff as it has NO place for compression, you cannot squeeze more electrons into a box that is already full.(not exactly but it willdo in kid's classroom)


Now things can become tricky because bosons are said to be the real force carriers.
They transfer the interaction between particles.(radiation)
You mentioned particulary Photons.
They are the force carriers of an electromagnetic field correct.
Now we know from both the photovoltaic and the photoelectric effects that they are able to move electrons.

But Note *This is extremly flexible as this situation allowes compression.
You can squeeze more and more photons into a box...(laser etc.) Again.

So if i look at the gray tube and i do not like to use the word "probably" then i would say it runs on secondary emmision.
Electrons, not Photons.
Why? because you got to have one hell of alot of photons to do the same with just one electron...

Some of my test have shown that the spark accellerates electrons to a point that is far beyond the speed they could ever get in and around wire, where are the photons? there is some RF but it doesn't beat it, and the magnetic field confirms..Remember? i know you did that experiment,i have a good memory..I even remember you said you will never look at it this way again.....
If they do reach that speed close to a wire,it would evaporate...(sounds familiar?)
So these ultra high speed electrons hit the center anode which is filled with free electrons and they are launched like billiard balls towards the recieving grids.
Same principle is at work in Philco Pharnswort's Multipactor.

The impact of the secondary electrons change the charge of the recieving grids.
In this situation nature has to restore balance because there is a potential diffrence between the grids and the environment.
An unconventional flow of energy will result.
The grid capacitance only plays a part when AC/RF is used not when one uses high voltage DC.

So this is my oppinion about the Gray tube and what it does.
If you think you got better ways i suggest you try them.
You can't just poke others to try your ways.. they got ideas of their own.
If you think you can make it work then do so....at least that is what i am trying and i like to test my own things.

Marco.

Ps I will use noble gas in the PAGD and Plasmatron tubes,but not in the Gray tube.
It would be best if we manage to generate the effect in open air since evacuating tubes makes it harder.
And both paradoxes are explaind by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
« Last Edit: 2009-12-18, 23:43:49 by Turbo »
   

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Let's leave the explanations to the physicist that get paid to figure it out.



   
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Fine  ;)

It realy doesn't matter how it works or what it does,all that matters for me is making it work...
But i am going to do correa & chernetski first.

Marco.

« Last Edit: 2009-12-23, 20:05:02 by Turbo »
   
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Shows up alot of places.
If this configuration appears with alot of people who made claims, including Telsa(Ahem). Why does this not show up in the experimenters arena?
The perpetraitors of this design copied Tesla.
L1 is 1/4 the length of L2. This means that the L1 drive entails the electron clockwise spin or the magnetic part if the sine.



tesla states it is 1/4 wave of the INTRUPTION AKA FREQ OF OPERATION  not coils nor primary ...  pick a freq .. a resonant core at desired freq ..  then wind output about core ..

plain and simple ... 

you can get nutz and tune it mass to mass inductive imballance .. then go 1/4 wave  if your nutz enough ... 

lol

IST

verry much cb ant!
   
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the tube marco has built is an eather spark gap .. 

non vaccume ..

the spark charges the cap or powers the load .. from the discharged cap via gap ..

quench the darn thing ! 

carefull

ist

you can do the same thing with a jt wound on a flyback .. and a aa battery ..

   
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Hi guy's  :)

Here are some pics of my conversion tube and the capacitors + oil filled transformers.
I have done some testing with intresting results. but more tests need to be done.

Also Here is a nice collection of pictures:

http://www.universalpower.webs.com/gallery/Edwin%20Vincent%20Gray/index.html

Marco.

That first attachment shows a tube Ed Gray built, but it's not one of his Conversion Tubes.  That was an Imris Tube Gray experimented with for a while.  With the right lightning, there's a heavy wall, multi grid quartz cylinder inside the lantern glass.  And that Tube doesn't have a grid connection.  That was before my parent came out, showing the load can be connected directly to the grid.  (4,260,933).  Bragging rights.
   
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I don't think so,

There are some rules in QT/QED that explain the phenomena of secondary emission.
This is for example the pauli exclusion principle.
It states that no two identical fermions may occupy the same quantum state simultaneously.
Since electrons are fermions this rule boils down to the simple rule that no two electrons may exist at the same place at the same time.
So if one fires one electron at another one, the second one has to move because they cannot exist in the same place.
Try doing that with just one photon...
This is a good explenation how momentum is being transferred between particles.
It's like the guy that shoots a billiard ball aimed at the triangle formation and they all move because they cant exist at the same place.(kinetic)
You could compare the movement of the other balls with secondary emission.

Note *This is extremly Stiff as it has NO place for compression, you cannot squeeze more electrons into a box that is already full.(not exactly but it willdo in kid's classroom)


Now things can become tricky because bosons are said to be the real force carriers.
They transfer the interaction between particles.(radiation)
You mentioned particulary Photons.
They are the force carriers of an electromagnetic field correct.
Now we know from both the photovoltaic and the photoelectric effects that they are able to move electrons.

But Note *This is extremly flexible as this situation allowes compression.
You can squeeze more and more photons into a box...(laser etc.) Again.

So if i look at the gray tube and i do not like to use the word "probably" then i would say it runs on secondary emmision.
Electrons, not Photons.
Why? because you got to have one hell of alot of photons to do the same with just one electron...

Some of my test have shown that the spark accellerates electrons to a point that is far beyond the speed they could ever get in and around wire, where are the photons? there is some RF but it doesn't beat it, and the magnetic field confirms..Remember? i know you did that experiment,i have a good memory..I even remember you said you will never look at it this way again.....
If they do reach that speed close to a wire,it would evaporate...(sounds familiar?)
So these ultra high speed electrons hit the center anode which is filled with free electrons and they are launched like billiard balls towards the recieving grids.
Same principle is at work in Philco Pharnswort's Multipactor.

The impact of the secondary electrons change the charge of the recieving grids.
In this situation nature has to restore balance because there is a potential diffrence between the grids and the environment.
An unconventional flow of energy will result.
The grid capacitance only plays a part when AC/RF is used not when one uses high voltage DC.

So this is my oppinion about the Gray tube and what it does.
If you think you got better ways i suggest you try them.
You can't just poke others to try your ways.. they got ideas of their own.
If you think you can make it work then do so....at least that is what i am trying and i like to test my own things.

Marco.

Ps I will use noble gas in the PAGD and Plasmatron tubes,but not in the Gray tube.
It would be best if we manage to generate the effect in open air since evacuating tubes makes it harder.
And both paradoxes are explaind by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.

If you're going to look at this from the perspective of secondary emission, look at the Mercury vapor inside the Ignitron, and the possibility of an avalanche.  Gray always used sets of Ignitrons, good for 70,000 amps and suitable for commutation.  One turned the pulse on, then the other turned if off - just before the potential stopped increasing.  As Master Ivo mentions in his video about potential 'reversal'.

The matter of the Pauli Exclusion Principle is over simplified.  The quantum states which can't overlap depend on identical integral potential.  With a million volts, you could have a million quantum energy states.  (That's why it's so hard to extract electricity From Ball Lightning.  There's too many different voltages to work with).

And here's something I discovered while engineering my little Gray Tube: the Low Voltage anode rod doesn't have to be segmented by the Carbon resister; the Tube works just as good with a hole drilled all the way through the Carbon, which is slipped onto the rod, close to the ends of the grids.
   

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You responded to a post that is over 10 years old
   
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You responded to a post that is over 10 years old

This is still a hot topic, globally.  And on my bench.  There is new information.  And other crap needs to be cleaned up.
   
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I found a relevant paper on wake field acceleration.  The new test produced 5 GeV relativistic electrons with twenty cm of accelerating distance.  The term 'longitudinal fields' appears early in the recertation.  What this test achieved with laser energy pulling electrons along behind it is the exact same thing as what Gray's Conversion Tube does -- with a delay line -- when it imparts the higher potential to the heavy current of the battery's momentary pulse.  There is no "mysterious inflow" of energy from the surrounding essence.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr.1LqT9S1jt9gPqFZx.9w4;_ylu=Y29sbwNncTEEcG9zAzMEdnRpZANDT0NPNDJURVNUM18xBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1663985171/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2flasermatter.umd.edu%2fresearch%2fwakefield-acceleration%2f/RK=2/RS=qCjf_HN1RP4o6ke34JkX4K53dUE-
   
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Jerry
Quote
And here's something I discovered while engineering my little Gray Tube: the Low Voltage anode rod doesn't have to be segmented by the Carbon resister; the Tube works just as good with a hole drilled all the way through the Carbon, which is slipped onto the rod, close to the ends of the grids.

Indeed, I used 1/4" copper clad gouging rod used by welders in my device. There fairly cheap(https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=gouging+rods&ref=nb_sb_noss) and I found the carbon in the carbon emitter in Gray's device wasn't a resistance it was a charge carrier/emitter. When we consider patents we must be aware that the goal is to hide what's important and only disclose enough information to protect our intellectual property.

For example, in many FE patents we may see one switch on one circuit leg labelled oscillator and another switch on another leg labelled on/off which is actually another oscillator. There switching both the (+) and (-) circuit legs simultaneously in or out of phase but they don't want you to know this so they use misdirection to hide or obscure the facts. As an inventor I know this because, no offense, I don't want you to know everything I know. Information and knowledge has value as another form of currency which allows some to do stuff others cannot. This is quite literally how "value" is defined...

This was why Gray called the carbon emitter in his discharge tube a resistance so nobody would give it a second thought and nobody to my knowledge did. Here we need to do a little research and use a line of reason based on the facts we know often working the problem backwards. For example, Gray had big problems with electrode erosion of his discharge tube conductors, why?. One was made of carbon and for anyone who does actual experiments like myself we know a HV capacitive discharge will cause massive electrode erosion, so why use carbon?. Well, because he had no choice and that was the only thing which would work in his device. I know this because I do a stupid amount of random experiments on everything. However if we didn't know through experiment a HV discharge blasts charged carbon as charge carriers from the point of discharge then?, well then were done and the line of reason/progression ends. 

I mean, did nobody notice the circuit energy flow terminates on the points of the electrode/emitters in the discharge tube then magically appear on the concentric rings surrounding said emitter terminating on the load circuit?. What did everyone think was happening?, obviously there must have been a translation of energy so how did said translation occur?. What was the mechanism present?, there are only a few mechanisms which could allow this to happen.

So here is a basic experiment you can do which I call doing our worst, not our best but our worst which is the opposite to our false idea of how we think things should happen. Use a HV 5kV+ minimum and 50kV is better, impulse from a big capacitor to try to blow your carbon electrodes apart. Do your absolute best to do the very thing you think you shouldn't be doing. You will find doing the thing everyone thought was the wrong direction was in fact the right direction, they just never bothered to try. Do your best to blow that mofo carbon electrode apart and your on the right track...

Regards
AC


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Oh well, as long as the thread's already Lazarous'ed.... :P

Mark McKay did a presentation on Ed Gray's motors back in July and we did have one of the 'original' motors to analyze.  (using quotes for a reason)
Mark has probably done more than any other in terms of actually going through the history and timeline of everything of all Gray's work, interviewing all involved and hunting down the lost motors. We had some nice follow-up chats as well, he knows almost every detail off the top of his head. :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5N1O1jXt70

I'm paraphrasing significantly, but McKay was of the opinion that the actual discoveries+technology probably originated with Gray's Chief Engineer, Richard Hackenberger and another predecessor, that Gray himself was more of a salesman than inventor.  That basically the tech died with Hackenberger, and subsequent modifications+rewinds made to the motors in the 70's to 'fix' them accidentally destroyed whatever effects may have been present in the originals.  That the motors were rewound+redesigned by someone who didn't know the operating principles of the original.

I think if there is something to be discovered, the key would probably be understanding the 'popping coils' as they were the earliest and simplest demonstration pieces presented.  What were they demonstrating with such a simple setup?  We know it was high voltage, and we know it was 2 pairs of coils, and iron wire composing at least one coil (per McKay)

Posting a few pictures I took of the Purple motor, anyone please PM me if they want more+full-res pics. ;)


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Well
We could invite Mark to the discussion?
His handle was “Spokane one “ here I think ?
Been a while since we last spoke ( sorry Jerry I did not
Ring him today …been real busy here getting ready for the winter!

Thanks
Chet
?

   
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