OverUnity Research

This just posted today at PESN; I don't think its Rose's device, but he doesn't say much about it:

Quotehttp://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/
You are here: PureEnergySystems.com > News > February 7, 2012
Fund Drive for S. Africa Trip to See New #1 Free Energy Technology

Sterling Allan has been invited to South African to visit a company who claims to have developed a commercially-ready, solid-state, 5 kilowatt Fuel Free Generator that will be available as early as March for their existing customers. Sterling has also been offered to buy a system to test, with a money-back guarantee.

Shortcut to the Donation Link


by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


A week ago today, I found an email in my inbox that had been sent to me on November 28 that I had overlooked. It was from a person representing a company in South Africa stating that they had a Fuel Free Generator, and that they had seven working prototypes with outputs ranging from 5.5 kilowatts to 60 kW. Included in the email were a couple of pdf documents: a FAQ and a brochure.

I responded with some questions and received quite a few answers.

The system is allegedly a solid-state (no moving parts) device that picks up energy from the environment (the "wheelwork of nature", as Tesla described it) while alternating power between two battery banks. And it would cost "less than grid power". From the best that I can understand, it is probably closest to the Bedini / Bearden type of technology.

The company's first 200 devices, each with a power output of 5 kW, are set to be completed in March, with customers already lined up; with a production rate of 200/month at first, ramping up to 500/month, but that's just for the S. African market. They are entertaining licensing to manufacture the technology elsewhere in the world as well. And they claim to have third party testing results.

"If this is for real, then we have a new #1 in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing," I've been saying.

I've written a couple of story drafts for their review, to let you all know about them; but the most recent reply came back that they don't want me speaking hypothetically, they want me to speak affirmatively. Instead of "this could be huge," they want me to be able to say, "This IS huge." So they invited me to come see for myself, and to buy a unit to test for myself, which they would refund if it didn't work as described.

    "We wish to invite you to our facility in South Africa to see, understand and test for yourself. This way you will report based on proven facts. Alternatively we could sell you a 5kW unit for testing purposes. If we do not prove our technology we will cover 100% of your travel and land arrangement costs. South Africa is a very beautiful and in-expensive country, and I suggest you visit. Remember we have many world firsts such as 1st human heart transplant (Dr Chris Barnard), Fuel from coal (Sasol), and now the FFG."

They don't have a website yet, and nothing has been written about them anywhere on the web other than my brief mention in yesterday's story about my recent interview on Late Night in the Midlands, where I talked about the technology.

Meanwhile, the company seems to be moving ahead at full steam. Not only do they have a receptionist (rare in the world of exotic free energy), but my contact even has an office secretary. I had to go through those two yesterday before talking to him.

The purpose of this present story is 1) to give you a heads up on this technology, and 2) to seek your help in pulling together the funds for this trip and purchase of a test unit.

I've been given permission to install one on the home we're renting so I can 1) prove this technology, and 2) demonstrate what I've been saying in various radio programs that 5 kW is adequate for a home if the occupants are careful about not turning on multiple high-power loads at the same time. ...

This limelight event on U.S. shores should prove very interesting...

I would like to see the process of getting the device into the United Sates and the paper work. Unless he Ebays it in.

And what would be the outcome of the showing in the U.S. Open House? I would definately go.
Hey Milehigh, you & me drive out there? Or we meet?
My dreams fulfilled and your suspicions cured?
Or do we beat this situation to death in person?
Or do we sit back and let this prairie dog pop alone up in his on festival?
Could be an operation to flush out other OUers that have not been too public.

I would like to the time / performance life.

What is the acceptable runtime with battery charge deprecation?
How do we see the specs to know that a showing is worth going?

QuoteThe purpose of this present story is 1) to give you a heads up on this technology, and 2) to seek your help in pulling together the funds for this trip and purchase of a test unit.

I've been given permission to install one on the home we're renting so I can 1) prove this technology, and 2) demonstrate what I've been saying in various radio programs that 5 kW is adequate for a home if the occupants are careful about not turning on multiple high-power loads at the same time. ...

Looks like a 'no lose' situation for Sterling if everyone else coughs up for all his expenses... oh, and the cost of the unit, too. And if it's all just an elaborate scam, he's not a penny out of pocket so all is well. C.C

So come on, speak up, who is going to chip-in so Sterling can have 1) a free holiday in South Africa and 2) then buy something with your money, which will power his house for free, forever, too?

Or am I just being my usual cynical self. :D

No Farrah,
If he is up on this illiusive category of physics and has been in Utah for years...
Why is he a renter? The lid is lifted just a little...

This is starting to smell just like a magnacoaster deal. Have I got a deal for you but can't get the full info just yet.

Greer and Allen are not my spokespersons.

I wonder if Allen will gain an [Exclusive rights] deal?

All this makes me cringe. Sounds just like every other copy-written money-making scam I've ever seen.

QuoteA Word from Hank Mills

Economic times are tough for almost everyone these days. However, opportunities to test and/or purchase newly introduced, alleged free energy devices (with a 100% money back refund guarantee) do not happen every day. As almost always, Sterling is willing to leap boldly ahead and scout out potentially revolutionary technologies such as this one. He is doing so not because he knows for certain what the outcome will be, but because he recognizes the world's urgent need for exotic energy technologies to emerge immediately. We need such breakthrough technologies today, and not some future date many years down the road -- when we do not have the infrastructure remaining to allow for their proliferation. If there is a chance this technology is valid, he realizes it would be an outright shame to turn down an opportunity to investigate it.

I would like to humbly urge everyone who can afford to do so to make a donation towards Sterling Allan's trip. Regardless if you can afford to donate a dollar or a hundred dollars, your contribution will be tremendously appreciated. By supporting this "Indiana Jones" style quest for free energy (which will take Sterling all the way to South Africa) you will be potentially helping to uncover a true "Holy Grail" -- a real, working, commercially ready exotic energy technology.

# # #

Follow-up .
(I'll use our PESNetwork Twitter account to update.)

February 7, 2012; 2:15 pm

Wow, you people are awesome. I've got my plane ticket to Johannesburg (on loan terms). We're on the way to pulling in enough to buy a test unit. You're adding to the grin on my face at the prospect of getting to S. Africa and seeing this technology. Their company is covering my expenses once I'm there. (p.s. I'm glad my wife was gentle on me for scheduling my return trip on Valentine's Day. At least I'll be home before the night is too late.) -- Sterling

Ughh, pass the sick bag! Anyone falling for this?

I guess we'll know more next week, when 'Indiana Jones' returns from the crusade with the Holy Grail... or not, as the case may be!

Finaly... A god we can trust. Small(g).
A self imposed leader that will ... blah, blah blah. Git a rope!

All:

Would it be fair to assume that Sterling will travel to South Africa, with the alleged free energy device still unseen and with no specifications, no pictures, no video clips?  What kind of output capabilities does it have?  If it outputs an AC sine wave, can it drive a reactive load?

It smells to me like a con, where Plan A is to take an order for a demo unit, and then never deliver.  The fall-back Plan B is to "Mylow" Sterling so that when he comes back he writes up a report anyways, and the con artists wait to find someone else willing to order a demo unit.

So to their shock Sterling is apparently on his way soon.  Sterling is not qualified to evaluate an electrical generator, much less a alleged free energy electrical generator.

I can only guess that when he gets there the MIB will have confiscated some critical parts so that it "can't work."  Another possibility is a five-minute demo with the device where the device is big enough to hold a big battery.  Sterling will ask to look inside the device but his hosts will refuse because of the "proprietary technology" inside.  Sterling will cave.

The bottom line is that new products aren't introduced like this, business isn't done like this.  If any of this was real and the company felt that Sterling's potential free publicity was worth it, they would loan him a system.  If they really were "in production" then it would not matter if they sent him a loaner unit.  Once you are in production if somebody wants to tear down your device there is nothing that you can do about it.

So Giantkiller, are we at the dawn of the Age of Aquarius again?  It's a catchy tune!



Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius! Aquarius!

MileHigh

I just reread the original posting and this time it registered that it's the old two battery banks switching back and forth deal.  Poor Jeff and his Bedini 10-coiler and his microcontroler!  What happened there!?  lol  His bytes bit him in the ass!

So assuming it's a 220 VAC output all that Sterling has to do is get the total energy capacity of the two battery banks and hook up 5 kilowatts worth of electric space heaters!  Do the math and figure out how many hours that he has to camp out in front of the space heaters to drain 10 times that total energy!!!  Dance till you drop Sterling!

If the people he his seeing have connected up their big batteries in parallel well then that's instant disqualificaatiooooon!  (Said with a George Carlin voice.)

How about some due diligence on this, "They claim to have third party testing results."

Let's see them RIGHT NOW.  (Said with a Rosemary Ainslie voice.)

How about some due diligence on this, "The company's first 200 devices, each with a power output of 5 kW, are set to be completed in March, with customers already lined up."

Well this is the Jetson's/Internet age.  Somebody could check out South African tech chat boards.  If customer's are lined up surely there must be some buzz out there?  This is bigger than the iPhone 4s after all.

However..... If there is nary a peep on any South African tech chat boards then let's see some pictures of the production line(s) and the inventory.  How about some pictures of the various test jigs?  How about a picture of the quality manager?  How about a picture of the final test jigs on the production line where they have to put the units under a five kilowatt load?  How about some pictures of coils cols coils?

How about a picture of a company letterhead?  How about a picture of a big purchase order for wire?   An invoice for lots of wire shipped?  Soldering stations?  Smurf smocks???

You get the picture.  Based on what has already been said, if they were real all of the stuff mentioned above should be readily available, before you fly across the ocean.

MileHigh

Don't forget that the business of credulity needs you, naive folks, for the actors to be able to live. Believers, be charitable, send money to Sterling Allan for his holidays in South Africa.  ;D

I think Fast Freddy is behind this. After being run out of town for his 'truck running on just water' scam  he upped sticks and settled in S.A.  ;)

FF already knows how naive, gulible and clueless Allan is, so why not fool him again.

It really is the bizarre, bordering on utter madness! It's like sending Chet to evaluate the latest NASA space rocket engine... no offense Chet.

It does rather make you wonder what is going on inside Allan's head. I just love the way he gets everyone else to pay for everything.  O0 But then perhaps that is in essence exactly what PESN is ultimately all about, because I really can't see anyone being fooled time and time again, falling for one scam after another (well perhaps one other person) unless there are financial gains to be made. Afterall, Allan's website never discriminates between potentially genuine devices and people or the obvious con artists. Seems like the-more-the-merrier to me. Everyone's welcome - no qualifications or credibility necessary!  

I think it is a matter of all publicity is good publicity - radio talk shows, etc. And the more publicity PESN gets the more people are likely to be fooled into funding Allan with donations. PESN is probably the ultimate scam, precisely because it does not come across as a scam, but as a service.

On the bright side, perhaps Allan will be taken hostage in S.A. and held for ransom. It will be interesting then to see how many folk put their hands in their pockets to pay that too!

I remember reading about a guy in South Africa that modified a Boyce/Bedini circuit and installed it in his daughters toy vehicle.  He claimed that he never has to recharge the two batteries inside.  It's possible that it might be this person, who has now "supersized" the technology.  I hope Mr Sterling is going over there based on more than just that email, but it should be a great time of the year to make the trip, nice weather hopefully.  I think he should also let Dr Snoswell know about this as well, because he likes to jet around the globe for things like this. 

I just hope it's not measurement error, because with batteries just measuring the voltage to deduce the remaining capacity is grossly inacurate.

EM

You would think after the Romero and Milo saga he would have sought enough info to be relatively sure it would be worth while, for some bizarre reason a member on here seems to think he would not care as long as his ticket is paid for by someone else, how crazy is that, and how damaging would it be to his reputation. I think common sense dictates he has used due diligence in deciding to go and visit.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.08, 16:04:55
You would think after the Romero and Milo saga he would have sought enough info to be relatively sure it would be worth while, for some bizarre reason a member on here seems to think he would not care as long as his ticket is paid for by someone else, how crazy is that, and how damaging would it be to his reputation. I think common sense dictates he has used due diligence in deciding to go and visit.

What reputation? He has a reputation all right, but it is not one he could damage any further!  :)

If you haven't by now realised that Allan has his own agenda, I guess you never will. Talking about 'commonsense' and 'due diligence' in the same sentence as Sterling Allan is probably the most bizarre thing of all.   

Let go darker into the abyss of the human heart... Shall we?

Let's say this guy has something and by this time Mr. Allen is able to recognize it. He now keeps it to himself to garner the correct position to make the proposition. After all, if you finally recognize something about youself where you can not pursue you get devious in other ways and means. Let's say Sterling has been a patient lurker... And now he is about to strike the jack pot. But the neck of the jack pot is the mound of a prairie dog hole. When he pops out I wonder if he is monsterous enough to with stand the onslaught of the predators flying above. There are enemies out there that he doesnt even have a clue about. We get to watch the show.

Knowing you're in the sights doesn't stop the bullet...

Prairie dog holes and flying predators.... GK, to me you seem to speak in riddles, and to be honest I often haven't the vaguest clue as to what your posts are about.  But on some level, regarding this issue, I feel we may just be on the same wavelength.

Let's just wait and see what crawls out of the woodwork! This year, Valentines Day should be quite interesting.  ;)

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2012.02.08, 16:33:56
What reputation? He has a reputation all right, but it is not one he could damage any further!  :)

If you haven't by now realised that Allan has his own agenda, I guess you never will. Talking about 'commonsense' and 'due diligence' in the same sentence as Sterling Allan is probably the most bizarre thing of all.   

  This seems to be more along the lines of ad hominem (to the man, rather than to the science) attack  --   or can you substantiate your vituperative comments?

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.08, 16:04:55
You would think after the Romero and Milo saga he would have sought enough info to be relatively sure it would be worth while, for some bizarre reason a member on here seems to think he would not care as long as his ticket is paid for by someone else, how crazy is that, and how damaging would it be to his reputation. I think common sense dictates he has used due diligence in deciding to go and visit.

I thought that SA was a honest but gullible guy that fell in all traps from con men as Milo or others. Now I see that he doesn't retain at all the lessons of the past. I can't believe he is so stupid, therefore I now guess that his attitude is in part dictated by the business, more or less consciously.
The less sharp his intellectual requirement, the more numerous the subjects he can promote, the more the readers whom he can attract.
He is unskilled in science and technology and has not even the sharp diligence of good journalists in investigations. Although he is likely not fundamentally dishonest, he cultivates his natural negligence, incompetence and partiality in choosing and presenting the subjects, and the operational result is the same as if he was dishonest.

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2012.02.09, 03:51:44
  This seems to be more along the lines of ad hominem (to the man, rather than to the science) attack  --   or can you substantiate your vituperative comments?

PhysicsProf, you have deliberately chosen a subject about a person. Read your own title: "Sterling Allan going to So Africa...".
So it is astonishing that now you blame some of us for speaking about this person instead of speaking about science!   C.C

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.09, 08:23:59
I thought that SA was a honest but gullible guy that fell in all traps from con men as Milo or others. Now I see that he doesn't retain at all the lessons of the past. I can't believe he is so stupid, therefore I now guess that his attitude is in part dictated by the business, more or less consciously.
The less sharp his intellectual requirement, the more numerous the subjects he can promote, the more the readers whom he can attract.
He is unskilled in science and technology and has not even the sharp diligence of good journalists in investigations. Although he is likely not fundamentally dishonest, he cultivates his natural negligence, incompetence and partiality in choosing and presenting the subjects, and the operational result is the same as if he was dishonest.

Brilliantly put Exn - I couldn't agree more!

I myself have been through the very same thought processes and - rightly or wrongly - have come to exactly the same conclusion as Exn, which is why I say what I say, Prof. My 'vituperative' comments (good word that - I had to look it up!) are based on what is plainly evident from Allan's articles and PESN.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.09, 08:23:59
I thought that SA was a honest but gullible guy that fell in all traps from con men as Milo or others. Now I see that he doesn't retain at all the lessons of the past. I can't believe he is so stupid, therefore I now guess that his attitude is in part dictated by the business, more or less consciously.
The less sharp his intellectual requirement, the more numerous the subjects he can promote, the more the readers whom he can attract.
He is unskilled in science and technology and has not even the sharp diligence of good journalists in investigations. Although he is likely not fundamentally dishonest, he cultivates his natural negligence, incompetence and partiality in choosing and presenting the subjects, and the operational result is the same as if he was dishonest.

You guys seem to delight or at least persist in personal attacks on the man, in ad hominems; I find your continuing ad hominem attacks more of a reflection on you than on him.

   I would rather wait for the experimental results.  He has already asked others to perform independent tests on the device that he is trying to bring over from So Africa -- and for this I congratulate his efforts.

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2012.02.09, 15:02:46
You guys seem to delight or at least persist in personal attacks on the man, in ad hominems; I find your continuing ad hominem attacks more of a reflection on you than on him.

   I would rather wait for the experimental results.  He has already asked others to perform independent tests on the device that he is trying to bring over from So Africa -- and for this I congratulate his efforts.

Prof, we all see things differently, and indeed often have very different opinions about things - not a bad thing really.  Often how we perceive people is down to past experience, knowledge and gut instincts. My gut instincts tell me that Allan is not on the level.  If you perceive things differently then so be it, no problem.

I certainly won't be duped by the likes of Allan, Fast Freddy, Bob Boyce or anyone else, but if other people are comfortable being taken for fools, then again, so be it.

At least this little saga should unfold within the next few days, so we don't have long to wait. Perhaps some of us will see things differently then. Time will tell, eh!

Quote from: PhysicsProf
You guys seem to delight or at least persist in personal attacks on the man, in ad hominems; I find your continuing ad hominem attacks more of a reflection on you than on him.

   I would rather wait for the experimental results.  He has already asked others to perform independent tests on the device that he is trying to bring over from So Africa -- and for this I congratulate his efforts.

This, very unfortunately, is characteristic of
most Forums nowadays.

How easy it is to pass vituperative judgment on
others while posing as a Forum Man or Forum Woman.

It has to do with upbringing and life programming
during the formative years - we tend to emulate behaviorally
that which gives us pleasure and power over others.

Most are far better at "dishing it out" than they are
at "receiving."  They are in reality quite sensitive to
criticism.

Yes, it would be very good indeed if it were possible
to focus on the "science" without the filtering effects
of resentment and/or coveting.

Whatever happened to the old adage:

Courtesy is Contagious?

They know not what they do...

.

 It looks to me this device is a long shot, but it does no real damage if it fails so i just hope proves successfull.
All we need to do is ask for more information and add comments for and against that are not ego biased. Ego posts tend to say i am superior you are a fool, however thinking you are superior does not make you superior, we all have more to learn.

I can't envision Sterling camping out in front of a unit for 25 hours while it powers a bunch of electric room heaters but that's what I would do. I would have a voltmeter and a clamp-on ammeter also. I am predicting something like a farcical 15-minute demo with a small load and that's all there will be. That will be enough to convince Sterling. 

What about the payment terms for the device? I bet you that they are going to be 100% cash up-front. Then the stories will start in the email correspondence. "The proper batteries are back-ordered 16 weeks." "We have a bad batch of transistors." "Our mechanical engineering department wants to test new and improved drive belts from a new supplier and that will take 8 weeks." And so on, and so on. 

The six thousand bucks will be transferred into a bank account in South Africa and never be seen again. 

Too bad we can't see the 17-page "testing report" right now to inspect if for tell-tale clues. Just look at Magnacoaster's documentation as an example. 

A battery powering an electric motor that drives a generator that outputs AC power and charges a second battery at the same time is an energy-losing proposition from the get-go. I think I read somewhere that this is supposed to be how this thing works. If that's the case the "wheel-work of nature" will be saying one thing, "Increasing entropy, baby!"

Quote from: Dumped on 2012.02.09, 23:59:06
This, very unfortunately, is characteristic of
most Forums nowadays.

How easy it is to pass vituperative judgment on
others while posing as a Forum Man or Forum Woman.

It has to do with upbringing and life programming
during the formative years - we tend to emulate behaviorally
that which gives us pleasure and power over others.

Most are far better at "dishing it out" than they are
at "receiving."  They are in reality quite sensitive to
criticism.

Yes, it would be very good indeed if it were possible
to focus on the "science" without the filtering effects
of resentment and/or coveting.

Whatever happened to the old adage:

Courtesy is Contagious?

They know not what they do...

.

Good points, Dumped.  Thank you for these insights.

"Courtesy is Contagious?"  I hope so!

While it's all very nice and pleasant to be politically correct - courteous, warm and fluffy, etc, at the same time the con-men and scammers are duping thousands of people and taking their money.  Why would you want to be polite and courteous to these people?  These con-artists rely precisely on the gulible folk that are always prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. You've just been robbed, and you say... 'Thank you'!

And, as regards focussing on the science, well that would be nice... except that we never get any real science from the likes of Allan, do we? He is simply out to sell a story - or has no one but me noticed that?

What I don't really understand, is that given Allan's 'adventure' is being funded by other people (whoever they are), surely these people would want to know exactly what he is doing with their monies... exactly what he is buying... specific details. I know I would!

Are there really that many people out there happy to blindly donate monies to this, with absolutely nothing by way of supporting evidence?  I mean there hasn't even been a picture of the device, the place it is being built, the builders, etc... and some of you folk wonder why I'm so cynical.

It's laughable that Allan seems to think this has credibility just because his call was put through via a receptionist!  ??? Probably some wooden shack with a tin roof, in the middle of nowhere with some guy's old his mama answering the phone.

I doubt the people funding this will also get a so-called 'Money Back Guarantee' from Allan.  But you never know, I might be very wrong. C.C

You talk about Fraud and how these conman take money from un suspecting people, yet all Sterling is trying to do is verify the claims, the sooner this is done the sooner the con ends and stops people in the future putting money into something that's a Fraud, it's a waste of time just condemning everything that comes along, that does not lead to a solid conclusion, it takes proof also to stop a fraud because until that proof is also there then it will continue for ever, look at the TPU given proof it was a fraud would have killed it there and then, if Sterling and other researchers had had a chance to get involved early on in it's launch then it could be a totally different story now.

Is Sterling doing the right thing, i think so, will it get resolved maybe/ maybe not but we will have a clearer view after he gets a device.

Trying to ad hominem attack Sterling doesn't actually stop the fraud by another person or am i missing something, so i don't quiet get your logic.

It's laughable that you are even in a position to comment on what Sterling even knows about the device, can you point me to a report that specifically list's the details obtained, or maybe the emails between Sterling and the other party that you have based your above post on.

i think it's also a good bet that anyone putting money into this would want to see what Sterling has before they place money in the pot anyway.

If the builders and analyzers hadn't built or spent time understanding how the Romero motor worked, then MileHigh would still be there on that thread slinging mud to this day and still would not have convinced anyone it was a fraud.

now we have the Ali circuit, lets all sling mud and not get anywhere or someone could try building it, or taking apart the simulation bit by bit until the device is understood, offcourse we could always just start slinging mud for the rest of our lives and not get anywhere, are you starting to see my point, or are you going to start slinging more mud which just dirties your persona's than actually achieve anything realistic for people to understand.

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2012.02.09, 15:02:46
You guys seem to delight or at least persist in personal attacks on the man, in ad hominems; I find your continuing ad hominem attacks more of a reflection on you than on him.
...
I would rather wait for the experimental results.  He has already asked others to perform independent tests on the device that he is trying to bring over from So Africa -- and for this I congratulate his efforts.

PhysicsProf, your words are defamatory. You have deliberately chosen to propagate pesn gossip instead of "waiting for the experimental results", and these "guys" you are talking about, have only replied about the subject that you have yourself introduced: Sterling Allan.
If you have scientific matter about the south african device, you should show us, it will be surely much more interesting than promoting an incompetent who is seeking for money.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.10, 11:00:11
You talk about Fraud and how these conman take money from un suspecting people, yet all Sterling is trying to do is verify the claims.
...

How could he "verify the claims"?! He is not qualified.
We have never seen Sterling making measurements or providing a technical relevant analysis of a device. He believes or fakes to believe almost every new claim of overunity machine without rejecting the old ones that was proved false by skilled experimenters. In the field of free energy, he promotes everything and every claimant. Outside of this field, his website is considered as a propaganda for conspiracy theories. He is unable to frankly discard the scams or the inconsistent models. It is clear that he is neither an experimenter nor a scientist nor an inventor himself and not even aware of the laws of nature. If one day a scammer shows him a rod of shit while saying it's chocolate, he will say "it's chocolate". A kind guy but completely unskilled.
His only interest is that he puts all announces of free energy on his website. If there is a device that works one future day, it will be on his website, and so he could play the good guy saying "I told you so!". Great!  ;D.

 @pre-debunkers:  Why don't you back off a little?  I've already noted that Sterling is having independent labs test the device under question.  Why don't you wait for those results?  

 I have donated to Sterling's efforts to have the independent-lab testing done.

 

Where can we find the independent labs tests for the hundreds of previous machines that Sterling promoted?
For example for this one (http://pesn.com/2011/05/27/9501835_Steven_E_Jones_demonstrates_overunity_circuit/)?

Ladies and Gentlemen.....
(Drum roll please)

If Allen wants to promote the good will of the planet then let him do it on his own dime. But even then that does not give him status of a self imposed promoter. Do you see my point here? He finds something, so what. Why do humans promote the discoverer? Because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own. So alongs comes somebody, self appointed, to [fill the gap]. In so doing they assume to [fit the bill]. He or Greer nor anybody else is my representative.
But then again we are going to need a prairie dog at the shoot out....

Lets say he has a sponsor. The sponsor says [ask for donations] and see what happens. You keep the donations, I foot the bill, the technology becomes my property and you sterling, get to promote it. You know, kind of like a front man. We keep this agreement secret and everybody wins. Well almost. The sponsor gets the technology and Sterling is left high and dry but in a position telling everyone it works. How does it work, Sterling?

He once contacted me to harvest my efforts. I told him [No]. No doubt this spurred his desire to acquire even more so.

Perfect.....

QuoteDr. Jones is the BYU professor who was racing neck-and-neck with Pons and Fleishmann of the rival University of Utah to the north

They are all in Utah.
Even more perfect...

I came across this statement in the pesn article (http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/edi_6_sq_400.jpg):
"The report, written in November of 2010, says that the unit ran for ~100 hours continuous (with monitoring/security cameras to detect any interference) producing 4000W without an external power source."
This implies that the device produced 400KWh. NiMh batteries produce 300Wh/liter, i.e. 300KWh/m³, which is of the same order. We see on the photo that the volume of the device is at first glance around 1m³. So for the moment, the presented device is still compatible with conventional electrical means (contrarily to the Rossi's e-cat).

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.10, 16:40:59

Perfect.....

QuoteQuote
Dr. Jones is the BYU professor who was racing neck-and-neck with Pons and Fleishmann of the rival University of Utah to the north

They are all in Utah.
Even more perfect...

In 1989 and thereafter, I strongly challenged the claims of P&F of d-d fusion without neutron production.

OTOH, our claims of d-d fusion WITH neutrons have been confirmed in experiments performed in Japan and in Europe, and published.  The attached delineates several of the relevant peer-reviewed publications.

Eventually, experiments provide the answers and end the initial uncertainty, but alas, not necessarily the mocking by those who decline to look at the published, peer-reviewed confirmations.

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.10, 16:40:59
...
Why do humans promote the discoverer? Because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own.
...

They promote a discoverer because the discovery is of interest for every one and they are grateful, not because they are too damn scared or lazy to do it on their own. Every one have a part in the discovery. An inventor succeeds because beyond his own competence, the material and intellectual environment (for example the means for his education) has also allowed and helped him for discovering. Would Tesla have invented all his devices if he had not studied electrical engineering at the Austrian Polytechnic in Graz? Not sure at all. So the success of an inventor is also the success of the community, the human organization, whose competences are in all fields, not only in the field of the invention. Those who would be too "lazy to do it on their own" may have respectable contributions for the final result, even a SciFi writer who would have given the interest for science to the inventor when he was young. An invention is the result of the general progress in ideas, science and technology.

Quote
So alongs comes somebody, self appointed, to [fill the gap].
...

We don't need the gap to be filled. This is parasitism.
Promoters are especially necessary for bad or not working products. Today it is very easy to let know an invention when it is real. Some experimenters duplicate it, then they say it works and others try also. If the invention is really interesting, it is rapidly spent all over the world and a commercial activity can begin.

What I was getting at is 'Good luck to him and his efforts'.
This device will propel [forward thinking] businesses light years ahead of any competition who maintains a greedy grasp on subscription based old technology. History is full of this.
But this technology needs no subscription for the user to be holding to a supplier. And that is the crux of all this. Pity the fool who thinks they can advertise. The only way is not academic or business acumen but societal publishing(hand to hand). Originally I thought I would put self sustaining wells in third world contries for free. But then reality struck... The powers that be would take over. No? Watch the movie [Age of stupid] or [Food, inc.].

The [lazy] camp are basically those that don't know the concepts of what we are trying to do. I am in the [scared] camp. I have military aircraft with top secret technology flying over my house. Neighbors and I have seen aircraft just blink out of view at a distance of 500 feet. You can still hear them but they cant be seen. That means they are sniffing the ground also.

My stepdad was one of the first to put fat slicks on motorcycles. Alot of guys died till the tire technology got better.
Skate boards were illiegal for a while when I was young. Alot of kids got serioulsy hurt or killed playing on the best roads.

We are pioneer thinkers.
That means we do things not readily accepted by others.
And this is good. In this case I do not need the accolades of society because of the impact to those that are already in the wealth.

This has been and still is a good adventure.

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.10, 20:15:54
...
We are pioneer thinkers.
That means we do things not readily accepted by others.
And this is good. In this case I do not need the accolades of society because of the impact to those that are already in the wealth.

This has been and still is a good adventure.

Thinkers or dreamers? It is one thing to invent the skate board and quite another to invent a free energy device that would work according to unknown laws of Nature. When a real machine will be produced, we could say that we were thinkers. I consider that now it is a bit premature and immodest.
In any case I agree with you that we don't need "the accolades of society", and that this is a good adventure. I think that the idea of adventure is what really link us: to please ourselves with fun, new technological toys, and a challenge to the tools and habits of the society. I'm pleased to hear this kind of speech O0, instead of the pretentious vanity that we encounter often in our domain and that says: "I work for the humanity and its happiness"; pull the other one. 

Would the chance of a free energy machine equal to winning a lottery?  Lottery is about 1/180mil .  If the chance of free energy is 0, then I encourage everyone to stop wasting their time.  Obviously, all of us in here do not think the chance is 0 (if you are, you wouldn't be here lol ) .  Now come to an important part.  If you buy a lottery, you might have a chance to win.  If you don't buy the lottery, you can confidentially for tell the your future.  The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.11, 15:09:51
If you buy a lottery, you might have a chance to win.  If you don't buy the lottery, you can confidentially for tell the your future.  

Aha! Oh!, The security they must feel in knowing the en devour is hopeless, pointless and a waste of time. The honor they must feel in being the one to 'correct' any such attitudes or efforts.... or, correct the enjoyment of such learning experiences and hobbies.

No. I doubt it. More than likely it is just that misery loves company.

Quote
The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol

Didn't you know? You must seek out that numeral '1' and eradicate it, regardless of how far to the right of the decimal. There is only TRUE or FALSE... ZERO or ONE.

Perhaps the creators of the skepticbots believe they are improving our chances by flushing those with less knowledge of the real-world impossibilities?
(As in.... Down the toilet? Or create the impression that ones thoughts and attempts belong in the toilet? Or the target person simply belongs in the toilet?)

Constructive criticism should be welcomed and taken as a positive offering.

Relentless pummeling with insults, name calling and post bombing is nothing more than the lack of enough intelligence to see that your target must learn on their own and wishes to do exactly that.

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.11, 15:09:51
...The mistake in logic I see most from skeptics are: They can't distinguish the difference between 0 and .00000000000000001... chance . lol

Fallacy.
The incompetence I see most from believers is: They can't distinguish the difference between the .99999999999999999 of devices that don't work and the possible .00000000000000001 of devices that work.
The skeptics just say to the believers presenting their .99999999999999999 of not working devices, that their devices don't work.
If the skeptics thought that the .00000000000000001 chance was 0, they wouldn't even reply about the not working devices of the believers. The case would be closed.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.13, 11:47:20
Fallacy.
The incompetence I see most from believers is: They can't distinguish the difference between the .99999999999999999 of devices that don't work and the possible .00000000000000001 of devices that work.
The skeptics just say to the believers presenting their .99999999999999999 of not working devices, that their devices don't work.
If the skeptics thought that the .00000000000000001 chance was 0, they wouldn't even reply about the not working devices of the believers. The case would be closed.

Haha... every argument has its counter argument.  Yes, I do aware of this argument before I put down my thoughts.  And yes, it is also bad to believe 100% as is.  But on a fair scale, the believer is doing much better than skeptics.  Their awareness of themselves being wrong is higher.  One can tell by seeing which side has more ego. 

If the skeptic think the chance is 0, of course the case is close.  That's why I say they can't distinguish it.     

Sterling is providing updates at PESN...  http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/

For example:

QuoteFebruary 11, 2012; 4:45 pm Johannesburg

Very impressive -- both the technology and the company. I'm convinced.

I'm under NDA, so I need to pass my report by the company first. Also, I need to take a nap.

I'll be with them again this evening for dinner at around 8 pm.

- - - -

February 11, 2012; 8:08 am Johannesburg

I'm looking forward to going over to Sam's facility in about an hour from now. About three other scientists will be joining us.

I wanted to mention that we've pulling in around $3,000 USD toward shipping costs, thanks to all of your generous support. I'm guessing that shipping will cost almost as much as the unit, so we're about half way there.

It looks like my seeking to change my biological clock two days prior to arriving here has helped me adjust to the 9-hour time difference. 'Feels like a new day, rather than time to go to bed. I've also been taking melatonin when I go to bed, which both helps sleep and helps adjust the biological clock.

- - - -

February 10, 2012; 11:56 pm Johannesburg

I'm finally here. They've put me up in a gorgeous, small hotel. Posh digs. Sam and his son, Hussein picked me up from the airport, and we had a brief chat on the way here.

Tomorrow morning, after breakfast, I plan on meeting Sam here at 8:30 to visit for a little while before going to their facility to see the technology. Keith will join us at 9 am at the facility. Johan will join us at around noon.

Here is what I learned, briefly, in the car:

Sam is a wealthy businessman who has financed the inventor's R&D. He owns the building where the facility is, which has a number of other things going on as well.

Sam, apparently, doesn't know what "solid state" means (no moving parts). I'm not surprised, and I don't have a problem with that. It's not uncommon. Hence representing kilowatts as Kw rather than kW, for example.

According to Sam, the system entails a driver, DC motor that is connected via direct drive shaft to an AC generator. In the 5 kW system, the DC motor is powered by two 12-volt batteries connected in series, making 24-V (the master set). The back EMF from the DC motor is fed into the slave batteries to charge them.

The output is a constant 5 kW (not load following).

The switch between the master take a few nanoseconds.

The "magic" (my word) is in the circuitry that handles the electronics. Without this circuitry, the batteries would run down in maybe 20 minutes.

Sam says that every electrical engineer and professor type that he has brought in, will tell him all the reasons why this wont work, until they see the system running. Then they want to get involved.

QuoteFinally, I wish to address a frustration that has been aired regarding my statement that PES and associates would be rewarded for facilitating this technology. Let me say that the amount of people being rewarded is going to number in the billions before too long. I wasn't talking just about a handful of my closest associates. I'm talking about business opportunities for hundreds within a few months, and indirect ripple effect of opportunities for thousands more, then millions, then the entire planet, as free energy is finally vindicated in the public's mind, and they realize that we don't have to live in poverty as slaves to the corrupt New World Order that has been suppressing such technologies for at least a century.

If, after all this, you still feel frustrated about having donated to make all this possible, only to see us at PES end up with a sizeable donation in our bank account, we would be willing to refund your donation if you ask.

You may or may not agree with the man; I appreciate his efforts.

I have been following and posting on this one and it's become kind of "Keystone Cops" comical.

Poor Sterling flies all the way to South Africa to see a definitive demo of this over unity device and he doesn't even get a lousy t-shirt out of the deal.  You can pretty clearly deduce that he saw a box filled with big batteries power a load for perhaps 15 minutes to a few hours.  He then posted that he was "convinced."  Some number crunching on battery volume and battery energy density was posted thanks to Exn and it's blatantly obvious that nothing could have been proved at the demo.  For lack of a better term, it appears that Sterling was shown some "blinking lights" and he was convinced.  So he flew all the way to South Africa for that.

I don't want to prejudge here because I don't know the precise details.  However, when you make inferences and you know the track history and recurring patterns for devices and companies like this, that's what all of the direct and inferred information is pointing to.

Then, to make matters worse, "Sam" offers to give Sterling a "free" five kilowatt generator and he accepts, even though he had the donated cash on hand to buy one!!!  These boxes are supposed to "start shipping" at the beginning of March 2012.

And, Sterling signed an NDA so he can't say anything!  It's a farcical comedy yet again.

Sterling flies to South Africa to see a definitive demo of a working device and actually buy one from the company.

Sterling will end up coming home with nothing, unable to say anything because he is under an NDA, and you can say with some confidence say that the "free" unit will never ship!  He has no leverage to get a unit back to the States for testing!  The people that donated money for an actual device are SOL.

It's comical, life being stranger than fiction!

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh
...

I don't want to prejudge here because I don't know the precise details.  However...
...

When we do things which we claim we do
not want to do, it is generally because of
the pleasure felt when performing the "act."

Hopefully, we shall soon have a much better
understanding of what Sterling's journey has
witnessed.

It is truly unfortunate that MileHigh isn't in a
position to do the same sort of exploration
that Sterling has done.  One must wonder what
sort of reporting would emanate from his pen...

Have you ever been tempted to embark on such
a career MileHigh?

Quote from: MileHigh
...

Sterling will end up coming home with nothing, unable to say anything because he is under an NDA, and you can say with some confidence say that the "free" unit will never ship!  He has no leverage to get a unit back to the States for testing!...
...

Wouldn't it be an awful shame if the device
was seized or confiscated at the port of
entry into the U.S.?

Yes indeed there is pleasure in pointing out the folly of life sometimes, just look at satire.  However there is a lesson inherent in the message, although it's evident that not everyone will take heed of the message.

Why people in the realm of free energy that are believers don't want to ask the critical questions is hard to understand sometimes.  Mark my words, Sterling will hopefully give all of the details behind the demonstration and it will be obvious that you could not draw any conclusions from what was presented.  Going further back than that, the company itself made promises of a definitive demo without mentioning any kind of time requirement.

Sterling could have made a deal to do a JustinTV live streaming event where he could vouch for the start of the testing as being legit and then a watch could have been setup 24/7 around the world to make sure there was no monkeyshines going on.  Not perfect by any means but still a valiant attempt.  Three cameras, some analog clocks in the frame, some electric space heaters hooked up to voltmeters and ammeters, some live temperature sensor data, and so on.  In theory with some planning ahead of time you could make it very difficult for the company to cheat.  Do 10 days worth of live streaming and have a running total of the number of joules put out by the device.  The target being to verify that the device could put out 10 times the initial battery energy capacity.

That's "uber outside the box" thinking for your typical free energy enthusiast that's not technical.  You absolutely need a live brute-force energy burn done by the alleged free energy device either live in front of people or as a live streaming Internet event with all the bells and whistles like I just said.

So if I was going to go in and report on these guys I would go in with an agenda like just outlined above.  Now assuming they are con artists my ass would be booted out the door and I would be considered a "hostile reporter."  If they were real, they would welcome the testing.  And, alas, it would appear at this point in time that all Sterling got was 15 minutes of "blinking lights."

MileHigh

Hi guys, It's comments like these that make me wonder. Sam has no idea what he is talking about "according to Sterling". Then Sam proceeds to explain how the system works.  :o  Ignoring the back emf thing (which annoys me no end) it sounds like the setup is charging a second bank of batteries while the DC motor is being powered from a primary set of batteries to turn an AC generator, sounds familiar. If it is truly outputting 5 kilowatts of excess energy then why the need for all the batteries ? Sounds like at least four batteries are used.

QuoteSam, apparently, doesn't know what "solid state" means (no moving parts). I'm not surprised, and I don't have a problem with that. It's not uncommon. Hence representing kilowatts as Kw rather than kW, for example.

According to Sam, the system entails a driver, DC motor that is connected via direct drive shaft to an AC generator. In the 5 kW system, the DC motor is powered by two 12-volt batteries connected in series, making 24-V (the master set). The back EMF from the DC motor is fed into the slave batteries to charge them.

I'm still yet to see a valid explanation of how back emf can even be collected.  ;)

Cheers

P.S. It would appear as though the master and slave banks are switched like (E.V.Gray style) which by the video's of Grays system only extended battery run time and most likely shortened the life of the batteries dramatically.

..

Quote from: Farmhand on 2012.02.14, 05:31:24

I'm still yet to see a valid explanation of how back emf can even be collected.  ;)

When you do let us know how it could be anything more than part of the energy applied.

Anyone can apply less than a watt to a simple circuit and get back 5kW.

Back EMF is just a buzzword in this community because the majority of folks don't know what it really is.

If it has eight legs an skitters across the floor - step on it.

If you see terminology you don't understand then it is 'The Answer' !

Maybe we should bottle it in liquid form and sell it. I'll bet the attempt will be profitable.   ;D

QuoteVery impressive -- both the technology and the company. I'm convinced.

I think Sterling and Chet are related - perhaps distant cousins.  ;)

QuoteFebruary 12, 2012; 1:45 am Johannesburg

I've changed my return flight to pass through Athens to go visit Defkalion on my way home.

Hell man, why didn't you simply get your supporters to pay for a 'Round the World' cruise and be done with it?  C.C

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.13, 15:15:51
...
But on a fair scale, the believer is doing much better than skeptics.  Their awareness of themselves being wrong is higher.  One can tell by seeing which side has more ego. 

If the skeptic think the chance is 0, of course the case is close.  That's why I say they can't distinguish it.     

1) The believers have shown not one working device until now, not even a promising idea confirmed by facts (except Rossi's e-cat but it is not free energy), so their contribution to the free energy is null.
2) In despite they have not one working device, they have made hundreds or even thousands claims of free energy machines. So not only they have nothing, but also they jam the field of free energy, discrediting it, and letting waste the time of experimenters who must verify their premature announces and their stupid ideas. They are counterproductive. The believers are a handicap for the free energy research.
3) The skeptics search for free energy. They have not more success than the believers, but they are much more discreet because they have neither a big ego nor the need to express a faith and convince themselves. They are also generally more technically skilled so they don't confuse conventional observations with anomalies and miraculous free energy.
4) The energy that is now used in the world comes from discoveries of the scientists, who are skeptics. The skeptics have not free energy, but they have provided means for producing energy. They are not vain contrarily to the believers.
5) The believers fail because their methodology is wrong: it is based on blind beliefs, on denying academic knowledge, on ignorance, not on the facts. They want to believe there is free energy everywhere and consequently they see free energy everywhere where they are searching, while there is nothing.
6) Only the doubt can lead to free energy, by discarding all conventional results and by keeping the subtle observations that are really new, unusual, not yet explained, and are a possible way to unknown physics. The doubt is a positive attitude which is the fundation of science.

Ex can you remove yourself from posting on this forum, i keep reading the equivalent of telling someone driving a car to stop filling it with fuel, or telling someone that smokes they can continue to smoke as long as they don't buy any cigarettes, what you say is a waste of time reading and does not make any sense on a free energy research forum.

I am getting very tired and starting to lose my Patience, get over the fact that people in life say things that are not true and try to con people with fake devices, i have not seen anyone on here trying to sell a free energy machine that has not been proven to work, so stop going on, there will always be believers and non believers, this forum is for believers that seek the truth by research, and further the possibility of a working device.

Anyone who does not believe step forward i can easily delete your account to save us all the wasted time of reading your posts.

Farrah

QuoteI think Sterling and Chet are related - perhaps distant cousins.  Wink

What research did you do to reach this conclusion.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.14, 13:29:23
1) The believers have shown not one working device until now, not even a promising idea confirmed by facts (except Rossi's e-cat but it is not free energy), so their contribution to the free energy is null.
2) In despite they have not one working device, they have made hundreds or even thousands claims of free energy machines. So not only they have nothing, but also they jam the field of free energy, discrediting it, and letting waste the time of experimenters who must verify their premature announces and their stupid ideas. They are counterproductive. The believers are a handicap for the free energy research.
3) The skeptics search for free energy. They have not more success than the believers, but they are much more discreet because they have neither a big ego nor the need to express a faith and convince themselves. They are also generally more technically skilled so they don't confuse conventional observations with anomalies and miraculous free energy.
4) The energy that is now used in the world comes from discoveries of the scientists, who are skeptics. The skeptics have not free energy, but they have provided means for producing energy. They are not vain contrarily to the believers.
5) The believers fail because their methodology is wrong: it is based on blind beliefs, on denying academic knowledge, on ignorance, not on the facts. They want to believe there is free energy everywhere and consequently they see free energy everywhere where they are searching, while there is nothing.
6) Only the doubt can lead to free energy, by discarding all conventional results and by keeping the subtle observations that are really new, unusual, not yet explained, and are a possible way to unknown physics. The doubt is a positive attitude which is the fundation of science.

I think this is just an issue of misunderstanding.  

When we talk about skepticism, it's just a tool.  All skeptics in here are also believers.  The non believers (which mostly mainstream), would not wander around these forum.  So the believers are the one who search for free energy, skepticism is the tool to eliminate what doesn't work.  Remember, we eliminate what doesn't work so we can reach our goal.  Once again, we're all on the same side.  The problem is that if you are not aware enough, you can dismiss promising ideas, which set back progress.  So the two forces within believers are: (why things works(believe) and why don't(skeptic)).  It is simple to just state why you think it works or why you think it doesn't and let everyone see which one makes sense.  There is no need to let the Ego step in and destroy our vision.  One may see something interesting and ready to give credit but ego can override that thought.  I'm glad you see Rossi's Ecat promissing, me too.  

@paterae

The trouble with non believers and to a degree skeptics is they do not understand the suppression of information when it comes to science and history. How many people know the story of tesla? whilhelm reich one of the biggest censorships of research in american history. 1000`s of patents have been withheld. If science says overunity is impossible then why suppress information? Why would you almost write out of mainstream history tesla`s story? Why would you withhold so many of his patents to this day? Why was stan meyers patents held until 2007? The released patents do not work so why did they hold them under national security?

There are those that do not know becouse they do not see any of the bigger picture. There is those that disrupt threads and spread dis-information through ingnorance or on purpose and then there is the ego that posts. What you have left is wannabe scientist and scientists trying to work together towards the same goal.  :)

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.14, 14:49:34
Anyone who does not believe step forward i can easily delete your account to save us all the wasted time of reading your posts.

You can delete mine then if you really feel that way and it wasn't just frustration, because if that is your attitude when faced with a doubting ex or anybody, I must wonder if you are a -blind- believer; that this is religion now. And the infidels must be vanquished.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Ex said. What he said, if you read it without fear of losing belief and hope in FE from some kind of contamination of too much fact,  is that he said any progress will most likely come from those who have doubt (which to me means an open mind but one not so open just anything can be poured in)...and his points #3 and #5 -in particular- speak to the mindset of a lot of the people who waste everybody's time.

You cannot deny science, the proven science, thinking you are going to find some flaw and become savior of Mankind. I am not talking about finding -improved theories- that explain the unexplained or those which improve on the old and allow for new approaches. I am talking about the things this place is filled with lately about people not even being able to measure what it is they think they are seeing, the basics. Truths.

Anyhow, I always thought this place was the open minded forum out of all of them, but if a doubter has to be axed, I'm axed along with anyone else willing to stick their neck out.

Robert Covington

I think a forum such as this needs a reasonable level of checks and balances, and I believe OUR currently has that.

So imho, we're doing ok, and no one needs to be axed at the moment. I appreciate and try to consider both sides of the argument.

.99

I show the dichotomy:
Two movies are 'the age of stupid' and 'water the great mystery' . In water they mention everything correctly but never mention Schauberger. S.O.B.s!

My message is very clear if you are a non believer then why are you here, it makes it very hard to do research on any level and stops people coming here to do real research and share with other people in the first place.

Skeptic is OK, open minded is OK, non believer is not OK, this goes against the purpose of free energy research. Are you going to do research if you don't believe in free energy? are you going to help people with their build/ problem or discovery if you don't believe, do you really think the wright brothers would have built an aeroplane if they didn't believe it could fly, they would have been much more likely to tell everyone that it could never fly, would this have been detrimental and disruptive to achieving flight if they went around telling people not to build a plane because the physics say it cannot be done.

I get the Pm's and complaints from people about the posts that these non believers make and it is very frustrating.

The result has been for us to introduce private areas at the request of users for people to carry out their research in private, this means most users will not get to see the work being done.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.15, 14:17:37
My message is very clear if you are a non believer then why are you here, it makes it very hard to do research on any level and stops people coming here to do real research and share with other people in the first place.

Are you saying that we either have to 'believe' or 'not believe'... so black and white?

I think you're getting confused here, and too be honest your message is far from clear. How big a blanket are you throwing over the term 'non-believer'?

Many of us are sceptical about many of the claims we see, and for very good reasons, but just because we don't believe every wild claim and every unscientific piece of nonsense that is posted, does not mean that we have totally discluded the possibility of at least some perceived form of OU.

Are you saying that, like Chet, we all should trust total strangers and simply believe in anything and everything - however unfounded and ridiculous the claim may be?  

As I see it, if you had your way there would be Chet, Sterling Allan and yourself here... WOW, what a wild party!

One day Chet might even throw a spanner in the works by actually not believing in someones claim of OU - what ever are you going to do then...?

QuoteI get the Pm's and complaints from people about the posts that these non believers make and it is very frustrating.

Jesus... stop pandering to them then. What is wrong, can't they speak up for themselves on the forum, out in the open. It's like little kiddies running to daddy everytime someone upsets them - some people really need to grow a set of balls!

Non believers only become a problem when they are also trouble makers.

What is the difference between being silenced by account removal or being silenced by being beaten over the head by a physics or science methodology book?

Face it. Some discussions aren't allowed.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.02.15, 15:02:38
...
What is the difference between being silenced by account removal or being silenced by being beaten over the head by a physics or science methodology book?
...

The difference is that the first one is brute force, and the second one is to be convinced by the intelligence, logic and reason, inferred from observations and measurements.
It's a shame to be silenced by censure, not by the evidence that we agree with.

I hope my view is not seen as a non believer by my posts.
I believe.
Look at this subject this way:
The believers are talking about the process before conduction not in conduction.
If there are those that don't understand this then they are in the realm of understanding at the conduction level.
The level before conduction presents a whole other area of device operation.
If this breaks anybody here then I ask them to get acquainted with the next step.

I have not taken alot of advice because I am trying to tap the excitation after the non conductive pulsing.
It looks like pulsing on the screen but it acts like a detonation or smacking against the fabric that makes up the supportive layer of what most believe is reality.
You can wave your hand through it because the assumption is it is nothing or a void. But the space between the subatomic particles and molecules is rock hard at the correct speed. Everything is. Water can kill if hit at a high speed. This same law of interaction applies to all matter. We swage metal by pushing at the correct speed, no?
What does anyone think of why SM mentioned the bullets hitting the side of a car? He was trying to elucidate on the subject of time or speed.

If I use current then this puts the circuit explanation in a common view that we all can basically agree on. But in the realm of prior conduction I have not seen any valid explanations or affirmation from most here except the questions from Groundloop and the terms and statements from Grumpy about displacement or cold current.

There are posters that don't know what they are looking at and when they try to announce or describe they are met with rebuttals. Most have not the knowledge to defend what they are getting as results. I doubt there is anyone here that is totally up on this subject, even myself.
But let me say this:
If you have extremely high frequency with current conduction of .5 amps and higher then you blow equipment up and hurt yourself. Obviously. What I am doing with coils now is to see where the force goes before conduction starts. Again if nobody has seen this or understands then their assessments are void. It is something new to experiment with.

I can not change the timing of my setup or I lose the returning echo. What help I ask for is to review my scope shot and advise me on what components and where I can attach to this process to make it amplify. I have on my list an aparthied capacitor.

http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt5.html (http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt5.html)

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5971-sr-193-sr193-study-device-theories-diagrams-schematics-experiments.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5971-sr-193-sr193-study-device-theories-diagrams-schematics-experiments.html)







Hope this helps.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.14, 14:49:34
Ex can you remove yourself from posting on this forum,...
...
I am getting very tired and starting to lose my Patience
...
this forum is for believers that seek the truth by research
...
Anyone who does not believe step forward i can easily delete your account to save us all the wasted time
...

;D   The believers are all the same: every thing not according to their dogmatic and blind faith is considered as blasphemy, and they promptly make personal attacks and threaten you. This is typically the reaction that we saw from muslims after the mohammed cartoons. I'm very afraid of being burnt alive one day as Giordano Bruno: the skeptics are for the pure believers of the church of overunity, what the witches were for the catholics  ^-^.

There is "research" in the name of this forum. So I suppose we are here to make researches about a possible overunity, and surely not to accept everything that is affirmed as a sacred text.

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.14, 15:25:49
I think this is just an issue of misunderstanding.  

When we talk about skepticism, it's just a tool.  All skeptics in here are also believers.  The non believers (which mostly mainstream), would not wander around these forum.  So the believers are the one who search for free energy, skepticism is the tool to eliminate what doesn't work.  

I don't share this opinion. There are skeptics on this forum not because they would be also believers, but because they doubt of the conventional science, or at least of some of the conclusions of the academic science, for example they doubt of the second law of thermodynamics or of the impossibility of the lenr.
No belief is required in order to not trust academic science. There is absolutely no need of belief to search for free energy and new science. You just need to be curious and open.

Quote
Remember, we eliminate what doesn't work so we can reach our goal.  ...

What eliminations? The devices that don't work are nevertheless kept on all free energy sites, there is no mention of a status saying that they have been discarded, and every day we see believers refering to these not working devices as if they were real inventions.
If you know a site promoting free energy and listing the free energy devices or ideas, and mentioning which have been discarded, or just mentioning a critical analysis about their suspicious state, please let's know. Just a counter example to what you say: even on this forum, I saw at least one claim of overunity that its author has never denied in spite of the total lack of reproductibility. Now it is on Allan's site as a real free energy circuit (and in 10 years it will be considered as a genious invention, suppressed  by an obscur conspiracy and newbies of the future will try again and again to duplicate it...  :)).

Quote from: ArtistGuy on 2012.02.15, 09:31:24
...
he said any progress will most likely come from those who have doubt (which to me means an open mind but one not so open just anything can be poured in)...and his points #3 and #5 -in particular- speak to the mindset of a lot of the people who waste everybody's time.
...

Thank you for the perfect reformulation, and I agree 100% with you that the doubt means open mind, because "to doubt" implies "to challenge" and doesn't mean "to deny".

gk

QuoteI hope my view is not seen as a non believer by my posts.

You are not a trouble maker nor have i understood you be a non believer

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.15, 18:21:24
I don't share this opinion. There are skeptics on this forum not because they would be also believers, but because they doubt of the conventional science, or at least of some of the conclusions of the academic science, for example they doubt of the second law of thermodynamics or of the impossibility of the lenr.
No belief is required in order to not trust academic science. There is absolutely no need of belief to search for free energy and new science. You just need to be curious and open.

What eliminations? The devices that don't work are nevertheless kept on all free energy sites, there is no mention of a status saying that they have been discarded, and every day we see believers refering to these not working devices as if they were real inventions.
If you know a site promoting free energy and listing the free energy devices or ideas, and mentioning which have been discarded, or just mentioning a critical analysis about their suspicious state, please let's know. Just a counter example to what you say: even on this forum, I saw at least one claim of overunity that its author has never denied in spite of the total lack of reproductibility. Now it is on Allan's site as a real free energy circuit (and in 10 years it will be considered as a genious invention, suppressed  by an obscur conspiracy and newbies of the future will try again and again to duplicate it...  :)).

So some people doubt the 2nd law of thermodynamics and impossibility of lenr, but they also don't believe it is possible.  lol  I get it that in science you don't need belief, you just do.  But if you do not have a direction, where will you go?  I just put a circuit together and see what happens...wait, what is my hypothesis...  In the scientific method, that is the first step.  A hypothesis is base on what you believed.  Now I think you thinking absolute belief.  A scientist make hypothesis, but if it is not true, he is not afraid to modify his belief.  An absolute believer afraid to modify his belief.  If you're not an absolute believer and you don't have any belief either, what good are you? 

So there are devices we made that don't work, it doesn't mean there are nothing useful in them.  Find interesting part in them and move in that direction.  Did you ever find out why it is not reproducible?  If the reason being Dr. Jones is a con artist, you need to talk to him to straighten things out.  IMHO lol 

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.15, 16:27:53
The difference is that the first one is brute force, and the second one is to be convinced by the intelligence, logic and reason, inferred from observations and measurements.
It's a shame to be silenced by censure, not by the evidence that we agree with.

Both are brute force when the latter is engraved upon the thread or target by constantly repeated insults and statements. Did you ever stop to think that your target may already be well versed in these ideas? Granted, many are not but why try to beat everyone into submission? Make your point. If it isn't taken - then choose another target and move on.

Your targets apparently have a higher intelligence. They move on or find a venue where you'll not intrude upon something you have absolutely no interest in except for the purpose of creating grief.

I don't dispute the vast majority of the facts you provide. I dispute the method you provide them.

Geeze! Now I'm attempting to communicate with an algorithm  ???

Take a step higher and out.
Why the noise?
Lack of affirmation?
The need for superiority?

If any of you have the seen the movie [Water-The great mystery] you would recall about yourself and wonder why the noise is so pervasive.
Humbleness starts with the inner reflection of the exertion of non harmony in an external projection (noise is attack).
If you habour the need for input fecal verbiage, this draws enemies not friends.

If what you say pushes people away why do you desire to be ostracised, then alone only to cry out in vain attempts of attack to be included?
This is a form of insanity.
To repeat the repetitive action then question [why the result]? But never break the cycle.

If you have a need to be heard then make the listener understand with openness. That is correct. You make them. How do you want to be thought of?
You still have control. And friends... :)

Wattsup!,
I applied your suggestion of center tap to my current coil build. Patent 336961 - Tesla.
This shows the 3 configurations of a bifilar coil wind. These configurations also encompass all the configurations from people who claim overunity, including the aparthied capacitor.
You mentioned I did not need 3 collectors. Well 2 fit the patent configuration. And also with the compwave generation scheme. Woulda thunk it, no?

Ya'll keep quitting like a bunch of snitty women and I will scream right past all of you with the tpu configuration.
So, keep it up.

Am I worried about lurkers? No. What puts them in their place is because they don't know, that makes them a thief. What goes around comes around and I pity the fool.

Very interesting conversation indeed!

We've all been "programmed" with certain
behaviors, attitudes and beliefs which can
manifest as unpleasantness.

We all seem to have certain "triggers" which
initiate anger and resentment.

We often say (or write things) impulsively
which upon reflection would gladly be taken
back.  To humbly ask for forgiveness is
for many a pill too painful to swallow.

In a word, we are all "flawed."

But, there is hope - if we're willing to make
the effort:

Willful Happiness (http://www.thedailybell.com/3615/Joel-F-Wade-Willful-Happiness)

Feedback from those who observe us
is greatly helpful.

Quote from: giantkiller
...
Ya'll keep quitting like a bunch of snitty women and I will scream right past all of you with the tpu configuration.
So, keep it up.

Quotethis forum is for believers that seek the truth by research

Wrong! The people who seek the truth are NOT the 'believers' - their minds are already made up and blind faith and ignorance is good enough for them.  And as for the rest of us, it's not about 'belief' - it's about 'truth'!

QuoteBut will power is also a limited resource.

Wrong. Fatally wrong...
For if you reside in the truth you can not be daunted or fail...

Quote from: Joel F. WadeBut will power is also a limited resource.

Quote from: giantkillerWrong. Fatally wrong...
For if you reside in the truth you can not be daunted or fail...

Perhaps we limit it with our own doubts, lack
of faith or other self sabotaging beliefs...

Yes, the source of Truth is very powerful for
a certainty.  But, He makes us work to overcome
our faults...

The road (or path) to the desired outcome is
winding and treacherous with pits to the right and
to the left.  Temptations greater than we are able
to overcome often lead us off  the trail and into
a deep hole.

Who are we to blame then?

  Update from Sterling posted publicly at PESN -- good to see that this So African company is allowing Mark Dansie and an "electrical professional" to do some testing there; this is good news.   I hope the results will also be made public (whatever those results turn out to be).

QuoteFebruary 15, 2012; 10:45 pm MST

I've been back home a day now. Had a nice Valentines evening with my family.

I finished my first draft of a report on my visit prior to landing yesterday and sent that to the S. African company to review.

The inventor has been hospitalized, expected to be released Friday.

Mark Dansie arrived today in Johannesburg along with an electrical professional with a couple of suitcases filled with equipment to test the device.

Due to some communication problems (including my inadvertently having conveyed an email address incorrectly), the S. African group didn't know when they were coming, so there has been some last minute scrambling to open up schedules.

I plan on postponing my report until after they have finished their testing.

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.15, 20:36:01
...
I get it that in science you don't need belief, you just do. 

I agree.

Quote
But if you do not have a direction, where will you go?

Nowhere. If you do not have a direction, you can make your garden or read science fiction.
Or you can think, until you get an idea. 

Quote
I just put a circuit together and see what happens...wait, what is my hypothesis...  In the scientific method, that is the first step.  A hypothesis is base on what you believed.  Now I think you thinking absolute belief.  A scientist make hypothesis, but if it is not true, he is not afraid to modify his belief.  An absolute believer afraid to modify his belief.  If you're not an absolute believer and you don't have any belief either, what good are you? 
...

A hypothesis is not based on what we believe. It is based on what we think to be a possibility, and this possibility comes logically from observations, facts, or previous knowledge, and we have to verify it.
If we believed in it, we wouldn't have to verify it. If you believe in God, you don't think that he is a possibility, you have no doubt, you are sure he is a reality. This is a wrong way and the main cause of failure of free energy. It prevents the searcher to find anything else than what he is searching for, yet in science a discovery is generally fortuitous and rarely related to what was searched. To believe is incompatible with keeping an open mind.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.16, 12:40:53
I agree.

Nowhere. If you do not have a direction, you can make your garden or read science fiction.
Or you can think, until you get an idea. 

A hypothesis is not based on what we believe. It is based on what we think to be a possibility, and this possibility comes logically from observations, facts, or previous knowledge, and we have to verify it.
If we believed in it, we wouldn't have to verify it. If you believe in God, you don't think that he is a possibility, you have no doubt, you are sure he is a reality. This is a wrong way and the main cause of failure of free energy. It prevents the searcher to find anything else than what he is searching for, yet in science a discovery is generally fortuitous and rarely related to what was searched. To believe is incompatible with keeping an open mind.

I think I made my point clear, but if you insist that a belief must be absolute,... then it is your belief. 

Well I hope I am not considered a troublemaker. I just don't like feeling like I can't post my mind, if it's doubt too. Sorry to be grumpy if I was, otherwise...

Sterling is an interesting case. Each thing becomes the next new and best thing. I've been reading the site for over 5 years now, probably longer, and it's great entertainment at times. I know for instance that almost all HHO miracles don't pan out. I know that most gravity machines don't pan out. I know that both Rossi and Defkalion are so intent on making self destruct devices for their inventions that we'll likelynever see this come to market in any big form because when you are more focused on protecting the IP, you are focused on fear instead of optimizing the technology to a new level, leaving the competition behind that way.

Meanwhile, somebody will take it apart anyway, find the residuals, figure it out in about two weeks, and there you go. That's if it's real. All this destruct talk might be hiding a fancy heater.

Romero has put a big dent in my trust in other genres of FE as well. Maybe the name for all these things is a problem too...with the 'free' part. Perhaps we should call it HOT Energy (Highly Optimized Technology) ...kind of removes 90 percent of the thermodynamic crowd's complaints there.

Hank Mills quit over the Rossi vs Defkalion "Who's on First' argument. I don't care who came up with it...if it works, it needs to be out there.

Every back EMF thing I've investigated though, waited on, always turns out to be something other than what they think.

Run a house's lights for a month on one, with a verifiable input consumption of less than you know to be is needed normally, then I will 'believe'.

I believe a lot of this stuff is possible, I just don't believe the people who say they have come up with it have. Yet.     ;)

Personally, I want to see the guy who laser etches things to be pure black by trapping the light, do similar to a palladium lattice, and see if that enhances a CF Reaction, speeding it up, or otherwise optimizing it, by making it more uniform. Also, try it with HHO plates.

QuoteTo believe is incompatible with keeping an open mind.

Yeah, right...
You ain't talking about me. And this I know.

Have you seen the movie [Water - the great mystery]?
You might be surprised what power intentions have as compared to what any physical strength or effort might achieve.

In other words list what you have read or experienced before you can judge a belief system. Most  belief systems are comprised of a few nuggets that have traveled the circle of [Whisper down the lane] syndrome. People make stuff up all long the way. The next listener adds their 2 cents and so on. The thrid idiot out now believes they know something tangible without proof. Instead of people attaching to the Truth, they adjust reality to fit their feelings. Because they can. If not halted then other weak minded followers cling to the soma of satified feelings. How selfish... And down it all goes where the world is today. Any arguments?

This is what makes up our [great] societies today. If you have not seen the [Water] or [The age of Stupid] movie and don't know your world history then dare not, in haste, speak of belief.

This is where Truth comes in. Most of the time any disfunctional conversation can be shut down with a simple truth, like Farrah dame is doing. One just has to wait for the accumulation of items to fit a pattern of falsehood. Then the Truth can be spoken to stop the noise.



One can only talk about things they believe in or truths they follow.

Quote from: GibbsHelmholtz on 2012.02.16, 13:33:35
I think I made my point clear, but if you insist that a belief must be absolute,... then it is your belief. 

Not "my" belief, it's objective: a belief is "a mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth". You can have your own conception, redefine the word "belief" and use it improperly, this will change neither the definition of dictionnary nor its signification in the mind of believers. A belief which would be at 30% or 70% is no more a belief but just a cautious confidence.

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.16, 17:02:12
...
You might be surprised what power intentions have as compared to what any physical strength or effort might achieve.
...

Since the time of caves, the world that I observe has been drastically transformed by the only intentions able to build the material means for their ambitions, i.e. the intentions supported by a solid intellectual matter that fits the reality. The prayers, the beliefs, the incantations don't act onto the world. The tractors, the nuclear energy, the pharmacy, work.
End of the fairytale.

I am still posting on that PESN thread and putting the "heat" on the free energy boys.

Giantkiller:

For what it's worth I watched the first 10 minutes of the water movie and it looks like pseudoscience junk to me.  Perhaps at a later time I will watch the rest of it.  I am pretty sure I detected some outright lies also.  I am not a chemist but I don't believe for one second that modern chemistry can't explain or at least has a solid theory about the density changes of water.

Weren't we taught as kids in school that when water turns to ice the crystallization results in a structure that takes up more volume, hence less density?

It looks like a Russian junko pulp press production.  Those things are thrown together by the thousands, some with very high-end production values, to service the money machine world-wide that purchases television content.  It's a whole ecosystem unto itself, and part of the ecosystem is junk pseudoscience programming because there are buyers out there to buy it.  The reason the buyers are out there to buy is that there are eyeballs willing to watch that crap on TV.

I suspect that sometimes you can't see through things like this.

MileHigh

A very complete judgement based on only ten minutes of your time.

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.18, 03:42:52
Giantkiller:

For what it's worth I watched the first 10 minutes of the water movie and it looks like pseudoscience junk to me.  Perhaps at a later time I will watch the rest of it.  I am pretty sure I detected some outright lies also.  I am not a chemist but I don't believe for one second that modern chemistry can't explain or at least has a solid theory about the density changes of water.

Weren't we taught as kids in school that when water turns to ice the crystallization results in a structure that takes up more volume, hence less density?

It looks like a Russian junko pulp press production.  Those things are thrown together by the thousands, some with very high-end production values, to service the money machine world-wide that purchases television content.  It's a whole ecosystem unto itself, and part of the ecosystem is junk pseudoscience programming because there are buyers out there to buy it.  The reason the buyers are out there to buy is that there are eyeballs willing to watch that crap on TV.

I suspect that sometimes you can't see through things like this.

MileHigh

QuoteA very complete judgement based on only ten minutes of your time.

Your point is well taken but by the same token it's hard to allocate your time to clips that are 15 minutes, 30 minutes or one hour plus in length.  I will try to watch the rest at a later time.  Water has "memory?"  You have got to be kidding.

The key point is that it appears to be a pulp TV show that's cranked out by a group that follows a formula.  They spend half a million dollars to produce it, then try selling it into perhaps the Russian and English markets.  If they are successful they then translate it for the next year's round of shopping and selling of pulp TV shows for the Spanish and French markets, etc.

Before you know it three years later your one-half million dollar investment has returned 2 1/2 million dollars in revenue.  The people that financed and produced the movie couldn't care one iota about the content.  It could be true, half-true-half-lies, or all lies, they don't care.  It's all just a game to make money.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh
...
  It's all just a game to make money.

It is rather clear to most readers, but,
it would alleviate any ambiguity to hear
it direct:

What is your game MileHigh?

Guinness?

Dumped:

You are saying my "game" is clear to most readers, and this refers to how I make money.

You are a reader here so go ahead, tell me and everyone here exactly what you think my game is.  Don't hold back please, say everything that you want to say.

MileHigh

MileHigh,

Your offer to:

Quote...tell me and everyone here exactly what you think my game is.

is generous.  I'd prefer not to "speculate"
on the matter however.  It would be best
to receive verification from the source.

Your further offer:

QuoteDon't hold back please, say everything that you want to say.

is exceedingly generous.  But to conjecture
on any matter only clouds the issue.

Would you be so kind as to remove any
doubts yourself?

Dumped:

If you are going to attempt to make any insinuations about me and attempt to impugn my character then either put up or shut up.

So what's it going to be?

MileHigh

It seems that you may have
misinterpreted the original
question.

"Money" was your angle.

"Guinness" was mine.

Is there truly any need for hostility?

Is it possible to keep your emotions
under control?

Forget the games Dumped, just answer the question or walk away.

MileHigh,

You're beginning to sound like
a Bully Troll Forum Man.

Have you no sense of humor?

Are you attempting to make a
mountain from a molehill?

The original question was very
simple.

Your game is...?

Stop trying to play me Dumped.  You thought that you found an angle to make unfounded allegations about me and it's offensive.  The truth is you broadcast out to the world about yourself with your crazy stories about impending awakenings where the "truth" will be revealed and aliens overseers and the whole gamut of other ridiculous nonsense.  You are the guy that a generation ago talked to himself on the bus and creeped the other passengers out and now you get to hang out online and the Internet is your bus.  I'm avoiding eye contact.

  Sterling has pulled the text out from his earlier article, here:

http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/

where this thread started.  Text now says, "Report pending..."

Quote from: MileHighStop trying to play me Dumped.  You thought that you found an angle to make unfounded allegations about me and it's offensive.  The truth is you broadcast out to the world about yourself with your crazy stories about impending awakenings where the "truth" will be revealed and aliens overseers and the whole gamut of other ridiculous nonsense.  You are the guy that a generation ago talked to himself on the bus and creeped the other passengers out and now you get to hang out online and the Internet is your bus.  I'm avoiding eye contact.

I know.  For the majority it is hard to
believe.  What is coming will be very
difficult to comprehend.

While in "service" I've had the misfortune
of being in the wrong place at the right
time on several occasions and have glimpsed
some of the technology.  It is truly phenomenal.

We'll see.

Your speculative description doesn't quite fit
but I can certainly understand why you have
such thoughts.

Our "reality" is very much determined by what
sort of "filters" have been "programmed" into
our gray matter.

Wait'll you see some of the "hybrids" which have
been "created" in the various research facilities.
You'll no doubt be fascinated by their abilities.
Superhuman?  You bet.


No need to avoid eye contact.  Boldly go where
no man has yet ventured forth...

Be amazed at what you find.

Or just wait until it finds you...

QuoteIf you are going to attempt to make any insinuations about me and attempt to impugn my character then either put up or shut up.

I am sure you have a great amount of knowledge.
But try this...

I have been working with very narrow pulses and coil windings that Smith, Kapanadze, SM, EVgrey, Moray and Spherics talked about.
The idea is there is no conduction just pure potential. This is the start of the process. The way SM achieved it was using multiple frequencies to get an eclipsing overlap. The pulsing would shut off very quickly. This rings the coils. Then the next part of the process is to get a sympathetic vibratory ringing between 2 coils going. This creates a resonant transformer overload condition. Just like in every day electronic failures.
If you google [patrick j. kelly free energy] a list of his documents comes up and you will see scores of this. This is where the thumping comes from because of the shifting of the coil away from its center resonant point and back to a resonant connection. The beat frequency is 8hz Schumann. Google [schumann resonance]

This is why it is so simple. We control the overload condition just shy of self destruction. Just like SM stated. And [the coils work naturally].
Make sense?

Giantiller:

I am pooped so I will respond to you questions later.

I just wanted to mention that things are not looking particularly good with respect to Sterling's South African adventure:

http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/#Follow-up

It was number one on his "Top Five" listing just one day ago.

Perhaps Sterling would have more success at an English cheese shop, or perhaps at an English pet shop?

MileHigh

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.19, 03:41:33
...
The idea is there is no conduction just pure potential. This is the start of the process. The way SM achieved it was using multiple frequencies to get an eclipsing overlap. The pulsing would shut off very quickly. This rings the coils. Then the next part of the process is to get a sympathetic vibratory ringing between 2 coils going. This creates a resonant transformer overload condition. Just like in every day electronic failures.
...

A very conventional and hackneyed idea. A resonance is an accumulation of energy over time. Each period of the signal adds energy in a cap and/or in a coil, so naturally they can be destroyed as well as the other components of the circuit, when their threshold limits are attained.
As the word indicates it, "potential" means that energy is free until the moment when you use it  ;D.

EX,What do you know of the TPU and Steven Mark.

Ex,are you the famous master troll of the AmericanTroll Society,Quarktoo,arch enemy of one of our high ranking members here. :o

Quote from: cheappower2012 on 2012.02.19, 08:27:35
Ex,are you the famous master troll of the AmericanTroll Society,Quarktoo,arch enemy of one of our high ranking members here. :o

CP,

Possible, but I highly doubt it.

Giantkiller:

My knowledge is not so great relative to a real electronics designer.  In Min2oly's clip I think he is using a Mylar film capacitor.  It is so long that I have played with Mylar film capacitors and held one in my hand that I am not sure of the value of the one he is using just by looking at it in the clip.  In the old days I could have probably told you the value just by eyeballing it.  Conventional electronics designers must be a dying breed also.

I am really not the guy to discuss TPU and related stuff with.  You probably noticed that I don't contribute to those types of threads.

QuoteThis rings the coils. Then the next part of the process is to get a sympathetic vibratory ringing between 2 coils going. This creates a resonant transformer overload condition. Just like in every day electronic failures.

The problem Giantkiller is that the term "resonant transformer overload condition" might be your own terminology or something you have read?  Overloading what?  What everyday electronic failures?  Those are the tough questions that have to be asked.

Sorry I don't think I can help you here and I am not sure you are really doing anything significant.  Like Exn said, you can make an LC resonator's resonant amplitude increase until the energy burned off in the resistance of the wire per cycle is equal to the energy supplied by the synchronous excitation per cycle.  What does that get you?

I am aware of the Schumann resonance, it's related to a giant resonant cavity for EM waves that envelops the Earth.  What can that possibly have to do with someone experimenting on their bench on the surface of the Earth?  I would be really curious to know if you have an explanation yourself or have read an explanation for raising the issue of the Schumann resonance among free energy researchers.  Can you enlighten me?

Thanks,

MileHigh

Here's where we stand, quoting a "guest" poster from the PESN thread:

QuoteSterling, you made a contract with your donors: If they would donate the funds for your trip, and you would go look at the unit and report what you saw. They foolishly lived up to their end without considering that we would end up right where we are. You've offered no legitimate reason why you refuse to live up to your end. You've only made that worse by pulling the article in whole. The only path to retaining any semblance of integrity is to report what you know. If you did something stupid like sign an NDA that Green Power SA is using to gag you, then you need to at least report that.

I could see this one coming from the very beginning.  All of the signals were there ahead of time.  The device is a "magic box" filled with big batteries and a motor driving a generator.  That's a radically new concept in the realm of free energy.

Sterling's latest comments:

QuoteReport pending . . .

I apologize for how long it is taking to get our report up. The situation is not simple at all. There are a lot of dynamics at play. 

This technology will be in the Top 5; and once it is further validated, will probably be in position #1; but Defkalion and them are very close in many regards. It's not an obvious lead by one or the other. 

Mark's test was canceled due to a force majeure, which he understands. 

I will ban anyone who posts the contact information from the brochure that was supposed to be private.

Like I said, it's like trying to purchase cheese in an English cheese shop.

MileHigh

@MH,
I am referring to transformers that are allowed to enter self resonance. They can go into a runaway state.
Since I know this happens I am tying references SM made to this.
He stated [Thumping], [2 freqs almost bang on], and [the way coils act naturally].
Instead of trying to enter into items that are too special to believe or contrive I thought I would apply things I know are possible to happen and tie them to the TPU operation.

This is the only Overunity process I am interested and not that others are not available though. Each area of design or configuration takes an inordinate amount of time to get involved with. So I am choosing to spend my time in one area while others take their time and pursue or critique other configurations. Slice and dice.

My thinking so far has come up with 2 horizontal collectors 180 of phase. This would enable the tpu to swing back and forth in a vertical way. Like using 2 transformer windings to flip flop the flux back and forth. A 2 transistor flip-flop circuit is quite small and not complicated.

MH, I see PESN is STILL showing, 'Report Pending'...

Why ever would that be do you think... surely it has not all just been a big scam... surely not after all those kind people donated lots and lots of their own money? 

Oh, hang on a minute, that's precisely how scams work isn't it... silly me!  C.C

Giantkiller:

Well good luck with your experimenting.  Perhaps one day you will do one or more clips about it.  The key thing to not loose sight of is power input and power output.  That reigns supreme.  A long time ago I demonstrated how a coil acts just like a mechanical spring.  I don't know if that would make any difference to you but a coil under normal operating conditions (i.e.; no tens-of-naosecond pulse excitation) is as dead as a proverbial doorknob.

Farrah:

It's just so awful in a way to see the same kind of Mylow drama play out.  When Sterling first visited, I think that he referred to his local South African friend as an "electrical engineer."  If you read I chatted with him and found out that he was a technician and he had no clue at all how to determine if the box of batteries was over unity.  So Sterling and Jac were hoodwinked, like taking candy from a baby.  Perhaps the message got though to Mark Dansie that a six-hour test would prove nothing, and he woke up and wanted to do several days worth of continuous monitored testing.  That's when the (to be confirmed) con artists got cold feet and played the "force majeure" card.

It's really awful.  In business terms and in terms of due diligence Sterling looks like a clown again.  Considering that he has been at this racket for 10 years you would think that he would know better.

I think the honourable thing to do would be to simply state what percentage of the funds are remaining, and then give that remaining amount of money back to the contributors proportional to their initial contribution.

I really don't think this was a ploy by Sterling to get a free trip or anything like that.  It was just the same old thing, how exasperating.

MileHigh

@Milehigh,Jack Durban had a theory that the TPU,obtain power from the
Schumann resonance.One of the TPU's vibrated at 7hz to 8hz as said by
SM in the video
so it was close to the Schumann resonance,so Jack figured this could
be the source of the power,keep in mind that Jack Durban has had up close contact with a TPU and believes its real,
he is the one that started this.

Your comments on peswiki are very funny,its sad that Sterling is such a fool,hes facing 3 massive train wrecks.This silly device from south africa,the rossi device and the greek device.

Quote from: cheappower2012
...
... it was close to the Schumann resonance,so Jack figured this could  be the source of the power,keep in mind that Jack Durban has had up close contact with a TPU and believes its real,
he is the one that started this.

The TPU was indeed real and it did
output significant power.  It's just
that the "source" of power is not
easily or readily connected to.

It is not so much a technology in
this case as it is knowing how to
elicit cooperation from the "source"
to provide the energy.  Some few
have accomplished it without any
active components at all - just simple
coils of wire.  When one sees it in
operation it is in the realm of other
worldly. 

Quote from: cheappower2012 to MH
...
Your comments on peswiki are very funny,its sad that Sterling is such a fool,hes facing 3 massive train wrecks.This silly device from south africa, the rossi device and the greek device.

What Sterling is doing may seem foolish
but it must be admitted that he is in an
awkward way contributing to the "weeding
out" process.  He'll hopefully learn from his
mistakes and make correction in the future.

So long as the truth ultimately emerges there
is little harm done. (Except to those who may
have been too quick to provide material support.)

They will learn too...

Giantkiller and Cheappower2012:

I am struggling to find an analogy to explain how useless the Schumann resonant cavity and the associated Schumann resonance is to free energy and how it couldn't possibly be a source of power for anything.

I suppose free energy researchers will always believe this stuff and I will guess that these allegations are out there in the literature.  It just shows how corrupting the literature is.  There is an analogy with the lost sheep Bedini Yahoo group participants.  It's almost scary sometimes to see how easily people's thoughts can be conditioned.  Have you ever heard of the Milgram experiment?

Here is the best analogy that I could come up with:

You are in the center of a very very large room sitting at a piano.  There are about 10 identical pianos arranged in a circle around you.  You strike the lowest note on the piano really hard and then muffle it with one of the piano pedals and listen very carefully.  If you listen carefully you should be able to hear the other pianos resonating with the same note.  In 20 seconds the sound is gone.

That's your bloody Schumann resonance for you.  It's just a weak distant echo of a sound that you initiate.

If you don't initiate a loud sound at the right note, then all the other pianos arranged in a circle around you just sit there and do nothing.

You can sit there until all the stars run out of fuel, until the end of the Universe, and that circle of pianos around you will never make the piano you are sitting at do anything.

If you can get that, that tells you how useful the Schumann resonance is for your research and as an energy source.

As far as I am concerned, anytime you read somebody talking about exploiting the Schumann resonance as an energy source, a red flag should be raised in your mind.  You are either reading prose from someone that's been corrupted by someone else, or you are reading pulp trash that was designed to sell books; the "free energy cottage industry" in action.

MileHigh

Sterling and Stefan are playing the same game. Leave the barn door open and the prize golden calf may wander in. Who ever closes their barn door, gets the prize. Nothing new.

QuoteA long time ago I demonstrated how a coil acts just like a mechanical spring.  I don't know if that would make any difference to you but a coil under normal operating conditions (i.e.; no tens-of-naosecond pulse excitation) is as dead as a proverbial doorknob.

@MH,
Marco posted the dancing magnet. That there in itself shows magnetic pressure can be applied and reacted to. It is ~7-8 hz. His driver coil used current though. The idea is to get the high Q coils to quietly roll then violently rock in resonance. It ain't nuthin' we haven't seen before.

Another way to configure the process it to use a 555 into a core which will produce sine waves. The frequency and the configuration should all reach resonance. Then control it.


I press on.

End of story...
Then just how does SM do it?
And why does the dancing magnet only rock the best when at ~7-8 hz?

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.21, 04:09:06
Giantkiller and Cheappower2012:

I am struggling to find an analogy to explain how useless the Schumann resonant cavity and the associated Schumann resonance is to free energy and how it couldn't possibly be a source of power for anything.

I suppose free energy researchers will always believe this stuff and I will guess that these allegations are out there in the literature.  It just shows how corrupting the literature is.  There is an analogy with the lost sheep Bedini Yahoo group participants.  It's almost scary sometimes to see how easily people's thoughts can be conditioned.  Have you ever heard of the Milgram experiment?

Here is the best analogy that I could come up with:

You are in the center of a very very large room sitting at a piano.  There are about 10 identical pianos arranged in a circle around you.  You strike the lowest note on the piano really hard and then muffle it with one of the piano pedals and listen very carefully.  If you listen carefully you should be able to hear the other pianos resonating with the same note.  In 20 seconds the sound is gone.

That's your bloody Schumann resonance for you.  It's just a weak distant echo of a sound that you initiate.

If you don't initiate a loud sound at the right note, then all the other pianos arranged in a circle around you just sit there and do nothing.

You can sit there until all the stars run out of fuel, until the end of the Universe, and that circle of pianos around you will never make the piano you are sitting at do anything.

If you can get that, that tells you how useful the Schumann resonance is for your research and as an energy source.

As far as I am concerned, anytime you read somebody talking about exploiting the Schumann resonance as an energy source, a red flag should be raised in your mind.  You are either reading prose from someone that's been corrupted by someone else, or you are reading pulp trash that was designed to sell books; the "free energy cottage industry" in action.

MileHigh

Is there a link to the dancing magnet?  I hope there was no unethical treatment of the dancing magnet like the poor dancing chicken!  lol

Feast your eyes on this...
Dancin' I tellya! Friggin' dancin'!

Sympathetic vibratory physics?
Gee mr. Wizard... Tell us it ain't soooo. They never touch! or do they?

Giantkiller:

That clip is demonstrating mechanical resonance, that's all.  The fact that the response to the external stimulation peaks at 7.8 Hz has nothing to do with the Schumann resonance.  I notice that didn't stop some commentators on the clip from believing that.  So what are the L and C components in that setup?

Here for fun:



MileHigh

What do the fields tell you?
We don't know the specs.

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.21, 05:07:18
Giantkiller:

That clip is demonstrating mechanical resonance, that's all.  The fact that the response to the external stimulation peaks at 7.8 Hz has nothing to do with the Schumann resonance.  I notice that didn't stop some commentators on the clip from believing that.  So what are the L and C components in that setup?

Here for fun:

MileHigh

Quote from: giantkiller on 2012.02.21, 04:33:57
Feast your eyes on this...
Dancin' I tellya! Friggin' dancin'!

Sympathetic vibratory physics?
Gee mr. Wizard... Tell us it ain't soooo. They never touch! or do they?

GK,

Three problems with that vid.

1. The changing fields produced at that drive coil will only exist within the core of that coil. Therefore, any effects will not be seen outside of that coil.
2. Even if the coil fields magically 'radiated' outward from the core magnetic fields don't interact with each other.
3. Since the whole setup could fit in the palm of your hand, there is no way any resonance would be found at 7.8 Hz.

Besides, the resonance frequency varied between 7.3 and 7.9 over several months and was the same with different sized magnets, still very small speaker magnets.

Obviously, that video (and my experiments to duplicate the effects) were both faked. My work must have been faked. I wasn't allowed to continue posting on a far more professional forum until I admitted the work was faked.

Yes, it was all faked.

Now, please move on. There is nothing to see here  >:(

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2012.02.21, 11:02:46
...
1. The changing fields produced at that drive coil will only exist within the core of that coil. Therefore, any effects will not be seen outside of that coil.
...

Same misconception as Steorn's fallacy.
A permanent magnet near a toroid coil produces a saturation or a partial saturation of the tore core. It spatially modulates the permeability along the toroid core. Due to these irregularities, when the flux generated by the varying coil current tries to pass the sections of lower permeability, it has to loop outside the core because it is conservative.
When it is understood that the geometrical shape of a toroid coil doesn't imply the same toroidal magnetic symmetry, it becomes clear that 1) the flux leakage infuences the permanent magnet (reason of the "dance" in the present video) and 2) any flux change of the permament magnet due to its movement induces an efm in the coil and the Lenz law applies (reason of absence of overunity in Steorn's motor).

 C.C

Those who are simply curious or those who are too ignorant to understand theoretically the consequence of a not uniform permeability along a toroid, and want to observe themselves the effect I was talking about, can make the following experiment as I did myself:

Connect a frequency generator to a toroid coil with a high permeability ferrite core, at a frequency around 20Khz - 40Khz (a frequency not too low to avoid a too low charge impedance for the generator, and not too high to avoid radiation).
Place a simple coil probe near the toroid, and connect it to an oscilloscope. The observed signal is weak because the varying magnetic field is confined in the toroid core.

1) Move a strong permanent magnet closer to a side of the toroid coil: the observed signal increases drastically, because the saturation of the toroid core at some places causes a leakage flux that is catched by the coil probe.

2) If you have a cylindrical permanent magnet, move it closer to the toroid coil, but keep it in the same axis as the toroid and in a plane parallel to the toroid plane. You can even stick it to the toroid. The toroid core is completely saturated, but transversally, and the magnetic toroidal symmetry of the core is conserved (same permeability along the core). The observed signal is almost not affected.

QED

 O0

We then have alot of knowledge and experience but no TPU.

How does the magnet move then? How is it faked?

Will the answer come from inside or outside?

Not looking for a long answer.

One of the posts by SM stated [At this rate no one will ever figure it out].

The dancing magnets exhibit vibration. Transformers exhibit vibration. TPUs exhibit vibration. This then is all we have.

Tests that I did had a coil singing with ~35khz frequency. Vibration of the magnet wire. Another test with a magnet in the coil side exhibited vibration. And this coil caused personal damage. My right thumb still tingles and has odd feelings. Probably microwaved it.
We have seen ideas put forth of 2 Helmholtz coils in parallel.


If the babes and the doctors don't give birth from whence shall the next life come forth?
Or with all the knowledge available I dont see those greater than I expressing any forward progress.

Is it all faked? Or are we too embedded in dogma to see the catpa?

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.21, 05:07:18
The fact that the response to the external stimulation peaks at 7.8 Hz has nothing to do with the Schumann resonance.

Mr MH, If you swapped out the magnets for smaller and larger and got the same results at 7.8 or thereabouts, outside the envelope one could expect for a purely mechanical resonance variability, would that not indicate something's up? That's it's not just shake rattle and roll? 

We have here another saying "Besides, the resonance frequency varied between 7.3 and 7.9 over several months and was the same with different sized magnets, still very small speaker magnets.
"

Which would indicate it's a valid thing, but it's said to not be true by yourself, and even said poster admits it was faked, which is kind of him, and magnanimous, and...(sarcastic)  ;) but now I can go do this, and get allll the money. Which I will. 'Cause I needs it.

8)

Opposite-speak.

I have the firm grasp of Sympathetic Vibratory physics. It happens at all levels of the spectrum and not just inside our sliver of existance.
I hold Dale Pond and John Worrell Keely in the highest esteem above all who just talk and have not accomplished the things that these 2 men have.

The first TPU was Tesla's earthquake machine.
In his second test at a construction site, before the authorities entered, he removed the device, put it in his pocket and left the scene. Hello?
Mechanical or not, SVP is real.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.21, 14:08:44
Those who are simply curious or those who are too ignorant to understand theoretically the consequence of a not uniform permeability along a toroid, and want to observe themselves the effect I was talking about, can make the following experiment as I did myself:

Connect a frequency generator to a toroid coil with a high permeability ferrite core, at a frequency around 20Khz - 40Khz (a frequency not too low to avoid a too low charge impedance for the generator, and not too high to avoid radiation).
Place a simple coil probe near the toroid, and connect it to an oscilloscope. The observed signal is weak because the varying magnetic field is confined in the toroid core.

1) Move a strong permanent magnet closer to a side of the toroid coil: the observed signal increases drastically, because the saturation of the toroid core at some places causes a leakage flux that is catched by the coil probe.

2) If you have a cylindrical permanent magnet, move it closer to the toroid coil, but keep it in the same axis as the toroid and in a plane parallel to the toroid plane. You can even stick it to the toroid. The toroid core is completely saturated, but transversally, and the magnetic toroidal symmetry of the core is conserved (same permeability along the core). The observed signal is almost not affected.

QED

Yes!
An excellent test for those unfamiliar with the effect  O0

(BTW: the core never hit saturation and the increase in distance from the driver to the magnet occurred during the increase in driver current - unless you over-drove the driver toroid - then it was as described above, with few exceptions.)

For those of us in the 'Free Energy Community' this is known as the "ORBO Effect"   :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


OOPS!

I mean, thanks for sharing that ex. We learn something new everyday  ;)  I faked it all!
------------

I was very shocked when Steorn didn't expect it and numerous others (with respectful credentials?) were also unaware of this simple effect  :(

It was almost as bad as the trick with the spreading/collapsing washers moving through a magnetic field (the Butch Effect?) and the sliding magnet jumping off the copper bar with one polarity up and sticking to the bar with the other polarity up (lets call this the TK Effect). Where did these folks earn their diplomas? They should have dropped out of school and just played with magnets all day.

Quote from: ArtistGuy on 2012.02.21, 16:44:12
... but now I can go do this, and get allll the money. Which I will. 'Cause I needs it.

8)

Just don't spend any money or time doing it. Enough of both have been wasted already. MIT's answer was to explain how a compass works and tell me I faked it :D

I expect they'll have some related patent already applied by now.

Giantkiller:

QuoteI have the firm grasp of Sympathetic Vibratory physics. It happens at all levels of the spectrum and not just inside our sliver of existance.

That's one of my recurring themes.  If you can understand the concept of the "through" variable and the "across" variable and the energy storage components therein then you can apply it just about everywhere and anywhere.  That comes from first-year engineering.

For example, Groundloop posed the questions about exciting a coil with sub-30-nanosecond pulses.  To get the answer I thought about the old cliche of a yanking on a long thin hallway carpet and sending a single wave down the length of the carpet.  The beer-bottle resonator is another classic.

QuoteI hold Dale Pond and John Worrell Keely in the highest esteem above all who just talk and have not accomplished the things that these 2 men have.

If you are suggesting that these two people offer insight into Sympathetic Vibratory physics I would have to read them, which I haven't.  If you want to quote a few relevant paragraphs I can give you my opinion.

Love the Sterling drama these days!  "Let's give them something to talk about."  Now there's a metaphorical dancing chicken!  lol

MileHigh

@Milehigh,your mixing me in with the other members here, that have very silly false beliefs,
I don't believe that the TPU
is powered by the Schumann resonance ,the high tension hv power lines
,the earths magnetic field or fairy dust.I believe that the TPU works,that there are principles
behind how it operates.
Like you I operate on logic and common sense, everything points to it being a real device,I don't operate on blind belief.
There can be no true free energy device for that to be you would have to create energy
that's impossible,this is why the south africa device has to be fake as a lot of others.Only a converter device is possible at best case,a device converting an unknown energy source into electrical energy.I gave you the history of where that belief came from,not that i believe it,I have been around a while,there are no real plans on how to make a tpu only false information,garbage in ,garbage out

But if you resonate in chorus then the amplitude is greater.

But what is the fundamental basis for resonance?  Where do you see it in a beer bottle?  What are the through and across variables?  What are the associated energy storage elements?

@ww
The number of smileys in your answers make me confused. I'm not sure that the goal of my reply is well understood. I reformulate:

You proposed as objection to the "dancing magnets" that:
"1. The changing fields produced at that drive coil will only exist within the core of that coil. Therefore, any effects will not be seen outside of that coil."

False! The field produced by the drive coil can exist outside of the core due to the non uniform change of the permeability along the toroid core, as explained. The cause of the dance of the magnets can be the same as the cause of the rotation of the Steorn's device (although it is not OU).
Even if the video is faked, the reason that you gave is not the right one.

There is also another possibility for the cause of the dancing magnets: the "one turn" effect of the coil. I explained it when I refuted the "Telos effect" (see http://tinyurl.com/6o24etd). The effect is inforced by putting in the coil a strong current which saturates the ferrite. This second possible cause provides also a field outside the toroid core and both causes can act together.

@ex,

Sorry for the confusion. My initial post you addressed was primarily sarcasm.

The experiment I performed to see the inner workings of Marco's dancing magnets showed that core saturation was not a requirement but core surface material saturation may be a valid answer.

That part wasn't important. The important part was that the 'Dancing' was always best between 7.3 and 7.9Hz, regardless of the physical size or mass of the magnets - up to a limit.

This experiment was declared a fake because Schumann resonances in a magnet are impossible.

Telos Effect countered?? Interesting. Think Rogowski Coil?

QuoteThis experiment was declared a fake because Schumann resonances in a magnet are impossible.

But the repulsion is evident. The material wants to relax by it's own weight and the static attraction to the base.
Since, within reason, mass is not an inhibition, then producing respulsion and attraction at the correct timing seems to work on the flux strength and polarity of the driver toroid. The core material of the other magnets will absorb. The rotation of the absorbtion will aid or deny based upon the target magnets. Though the target magnets will not change polarity but merely move. The driver toroid never exceeds the base magnet flux strength. The vertical targets will rock and they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance)

QuoteEarth's field NMRMain article: Earth's field NMR
In the Earth's magnetic field, NMR frequencies are in the audio frequency range, or the very low frequency and ultra low frequency bands of the radio frequency spectrum. Earth's field NMR (EFNMR) is typically stimulated by applying a relatively strong dc magnetic field pulse to the sample and, after the end of the pulse, analyzing the resulting low frequency alternating magnetic field that occurs in the Earth's magnetic field due to free induction decay (FID). These effects are exploited in some types of magnetometers, EFNMR spectrometers, and MRI imagers. Their inexpensive portable nature makes these instruments valuable for field use and for teaching the principles of NMR and MRI.

FID: Hmmm..... A time span with which to push again within the decay. If the Earth has it then suredly a magnet does too.

  Sterling's report on the S African device is now out at PESN:

QuoteSouth African Fuel-Free Generator Preparing for Market

Sterling Allan reports on his recent trip South Africa to visit a company who has developed a 5 kilowatt Fuel Free Generator that will be available beginning March for their existing customers. Sterling will be getting a generator to test and use on his home from that first batch of 200.

Before I left, many people were concerned for my safety, wondering which direction from the airport I would be going in Johannesburg. I think you can see from these photos of my hotel room that they took very good care of me, as we were in an affluent, safe part of town. I only took 17 photos, total, while in Johannesburg, so obviously I wasn't in "tourist" mode. It was all business, and very enjoyable for me. (That last image is a glass sink.)


by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


On February 11 and 12, I was able to witness a 5 kilowatt (enough to power a home without central air conditioning, conservatively) fuel-free generator in Johannesburg and to meet the inventor and some of the principle players in helping him bring this technology to market.

As mentioned in my previous story on this matter, the South African company invited me to come see the technology first-hand so that I would not be making a statement along the lines of "they claim...", or "if this is real...", but so that I would be able to speak from personal experience after witnessing the technology in operation. They also offered to sell me a unit that I could personally test, promising to refund the cost if it did not perform as claimed.

I wish to thank all of you who stepped forward enthusiastically to donate funds to make this trip and procurement possible. The plan is to ship me one of the first 200 units.

The company, for now, wishes to remain off the radar. They don't currently have a website, but one is expected to be completed in about a month or so. They plan to make a big splash soon. For now, interested parties (as a result of this coverage), can reach them through me. So in this coverage, I will only refer to them as the "S. African Company", and their product as the "FFG", which stands for Fuel-Free Generator.

Top Five

I do consider this technology to be a contender in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing, due to its being close to market with a substantial, reliable output that is competitively priced to be more affordable than conventional energy sources, while producing no pollution, and being ready for rapid deployment through the setting up of licensees worldwide.

I was very impressed with the personnel involved in the S. African company. So many great technologies over the years have been hindered primarily by unworkable inventors or teams that can't work well together.

What I Saw

What I witnessed, along with three other scientists that I brought along -- all more qualified than myself -- was a 5 kW unit powered by four batteries, running for three hours continuous, driving a load of approximately 4 KW. According to the amp-hour rating of those batteries (102 Ah each), without being recharged from an external source, they should have lasted only 35 minutes before running down completely, no longer able to power the system.

The load was roughly 4 kW, comprised of:

- a two-burner stove, each burner consuming 1 kW (rated power according to manufacturer)
- a toaster that consumed 850 Watts (rated power)
- a pancake maker that consumes 1 kW (rated power)
- A 40-Watt fan (rated power)

The total output was as high as 5 kW, as long as the generator was turned at 3000 rpm, and there was sufficient load. (The generator only produces as much power as is used). One time we plugged in more load than 5 kW and it caused the system to shut down, as it should in that circumstance.

The system was comprised of a series-wound, brushed, DC motor (slightly modified) powered by one bank of two 12-Volt batteries (102 Ah) wired in series for a 24-Volt output. The company says the back-EMF is harvested into a second, identical battery bank, which is also wired in series. These two banks are periodically cycled, trading places in the circuit, and the net charge stays essentially the same, across both banks. The optimized cycling of power and storing of the back-EMF are all controlled by a proprietary circuit board and software developed by the inventor. The motor shaft is connected directly to the shaft of the AC generator, which spins at 3,000 rpm to produce 5 kW of power at 50 Hz, 220-V.

There was no external power cord or fuel going to the system. They lifted the table on which the system was housed, to show that no cords were run through the legs into the floor to a hidden power source. It is a closed system as far as physical devices are concerned.

We didn't have a way to detect whether or not electromagnetic radiation might be in use to power the system inductively or wirelessly; but we did see all around the room as we entered through the first floor underneath the lab, and we could see what was on the other side of three of the four walls, and we could see the roof as we approached the building, which didn't have anything on top of it. The unit was in the middle of the room, maybe 15 feet away from the fourth wall that we didn't look on the other side of.


Data

Here is the data we collected from the third test we ran: 
[See table, here:  http://pesn.com/2012/02/22/9602042_South_African_Fuel-Free_Generator_Preparing_for_Market/



The starting voltages of the individual batteries were less than 100% charged: Bank 1: 12.4, 12.43; Bank 2: 12.25, 12.42. We did not take an end point reading for the individual batteries (sorry for the oversight). At the time, I was thinking we would be back again.

According to these data, it looks like Bank 1 was not harnessed, and that Bank 2 was the only one being drawn from. Also, one of the two batteries in Bank 2 was not full at the start, but was discharged between 20-40 percent. With Lead Acid batteries, most of the discharge takes place during the first 1-V drop. At the end of three hours, Bank 2 was down nearly half a volt per 12-V battery (averaging), so it was somewhere between 50-70% discharged (assuming a fully charged battery starts at 12.6-12.9 VDC).

That analysis was made in hind sight, a few days later.

The company states: "The system is configured to swap between battery banks when the driving bank has depreciated by 8 percent, as can be seen from the tests, the driving bank dropped by only 4.9 percent."

I look forward to being able to see accurate data collected over a long period of time, showing individual battery voltages, current, and output energy readings accurately recorded as well.

But I will maintain that while our 3-hour run could have been more rigorously recorded, the basic principle does hold up: The system ran many times longer than the amp-hour rating of the batteries would account for if they were the sole source of power. Energy was showing up from somewhere else, or being transformed in some new way.

From an energy conservation frame of reference, modern science would predict that the batteries would do nothing but diminish. But there is something about this configuration that apparently allows ubiquitous, inexhaustible free energy "from the wheel work of nature", as Telsa called it, to be harvested. So the batteries did not drain nearly as fast, even though the system was producing significant excess power.

The claim/objective is that when working as designed, the system will be able to run continuously -- for years -- without the batteries dropping below a certain level (e.g. below 70% fully charged). From what I saw, I would say that they are on their way to meeting that objective, but they are not consistently there yet.

Began with a Failed Demonstration

The above description was the second test that was done for us on that set-up. The first run didn't turn out as planned.

The batteries diminished, the motor/generator slowed, and after 38 minutes it stopped running. Note that according to lead acid battery specs, these batteries were nearly fully discharged at the start of the test. I don't know that the S. African group understood or appreciated this attribute of batteries -- that it is not a linear relationship of voltage to power capacity.

Here are the data from that run:  (see table, here:  http://pesn.com/2012/02/22/9602042_South_African_Fuel-Free_Generator_Preparing_for_Market/ )

You can imagine the feelings of "Oh no; another dud!" that I was fighting as we watched this. But I should say that I was hopeful that the problem, whatever it was, would be identified and resolved.

It turns out that the previous test they had run had been for a client that had requested a control run that entailed running the system without the inventor's circuit, to see how long the system would go until it stopped. This damaged two of the batteries. Running lead acid batteries to zero is not good for them. Also, not all the batteries were fully charged at the beginning.

They replaced those batteries (including with one that wasn't fully charged) and then ran the test again, which gave the results I reported earlier.

40 kW Array

They also ran a 40 kW system for us that was set up the same way except with a DC motor suitable to turn a 40 kW generator; and 16 batteries, comprised of 4 sets of batteries in parallel in place of a single battery in the 5 kW set-up.

It wasn't set up at the time for extended running, so we only saw that one run for about 10 minutes. It wasn't wired to the load bank (a ~$10,000+ piece of equipment with resistive coils), and the shaft connection wasn't properly aligned. It was running without a load.

The other prototype size outputs apparently are available at their manufacturing facility. They include:

   1. 5.5 kW single phase
   2. 8 kW single phase
   3. 12 kW 3 phase
   4. 16 kW 3 phase
   5. 40 kW 3 phase
   6. 42 kW 3 phase


Other Scientists that Accompanied Me

The three other scientists that came with me to this demonstration were Johan, Keith, and Henry, all from Johannesburg.

Keith is an electronics technician with many years experience in all kinds of gadgets. He wrote:

    "I felt privileged to witness the future in person. I may be just a certificated electronics technician, but with more than 40 years field experience, I know enough to know that what I witnessed is no scam. I'm not sure how this process actually works, but it is most definitely working. It's one thing to read about things like this, and most reports are 'iffy' to say the least. To witness this in person and see that no extra power was being added, and the unit keeps on going way beyond what the batteries are capable of delivering, is completely mind blowing. The hairs on the back of my neck are still tingling! Thank you so much for arranging for me to witness this!"

Keith's friend, Henry has a degree in electrical engineering with 25 years experience in industrial electronic design, his specialty being electric motors and generators. He was primarily the one making measurements, asking questions, making observations, and, along with the rest of us, grinning at the end of the day. To be fully satisfied, he would like to see a longer run, with more careful measurement of the input and output, but he thought the device definitely looked promising.

The S. Africa Team

As mentioned above, I was highly impressed with the S. African company's team.

The inventor is actually very socially functional and not so eccentric he is impossible to work with -- a phenomenon I've seen far too many times over the years. Some of the best technologies are opposed the most by the inventor's inability to interact with those who seek to help.

The inventor has been successful as a technologist and manager for a large company. He's not the archetypal outcast of the fringe, as is often found in the free energy sector.

He came up with this invention in a round-about way, not starting out with a particular vision in mind. He was just tinkering, building a toy for his daughter, making one modification after another, tweaking, optimizing, until he ended up with design that powered his house for three weeks, which was when he brought it to a financier, who then powered his office with it for three weeks.

The company is privately funded, so they are not looking for investment.

They also have a lot of patriotism toward S. Africa. They are proud of the many milestone accomplishments of the country, and seem intent on having S. Africa be honored once again by being the birthplace of this technology.

They hope to get the distinction of bringing the first exotic free energy technology (of the home-power electricity variety) to the marketplace; and to be able to leverage the branding opportunities that will be associated with that. And after they have successfully launched the 5 kW FFG into the market, they would like to expand into a role of helping to incubate new breakthrough energy technologies -- to become the Siemens of Free Energy or of affordable distributed power.

No Photos

One point of frustration for me was that I wasn't permitted to take any photos of any of the devices. Their reason wasn't for protection of proprietary information, because a photo wouldn't divulge such. Rather, their reason had to do with image. They want the first images the public sees to be professionally done, in order to present a good first impression.

I disagree. I think their set-up looked fine. Compared to most of what I'm used to seeing in this sector, their equipment looked great, especially their 40 kW system.

Plans for Roll-out

The company plans to focus at first on producing the 5 kW system. They have several customers lined up, including some multi-national companies with strong name recognition, who will be testing their first 200 units built, set to begin in March. They will continue to produce 200 units/month for the S. African market, increasing this to 500/month by the end of the year.

They showed us a cabinet with 200 circuits they have prepared to go into those first 200 units. The 5 kW system we were observing was actually a test system to make sure each of those circuits has been built properly.

After the customers have run those first units for thirty days, 1) they will purchase them if they are satisfied with their performance, and 2) they will publish a report of the performance of these devices, to be included in their promotional material, both for potential licensees (more detailed) and for the public (simplified).

If the outcomes of those tests are sufficiently positive, then the company will do a big press conference or launch event to announce the product to the world.

After the 5 kW system is proven, then the company will next focus on rolling out larger sizes.

Skipping Alpha Testing

This method of having the first customers be the ones to test the first manufactured units is not the way a product is normally rolled out commercially. Usually, the first testing of the device intended for market is done in-house (alpha testing). Only after thousands of hours of testing and receiving certifications, followed by extensive beta testing (by external parties in real-world environments) would the product be introduced to customers. Alpha testing would include stress tests under varying situations including heat, cold, vibration, running to destruction, determining optimums and margins; as well as toxicity and interference tests to show the device operation doesn't impact human health or electronics.

However, remember that this FFG system uses primarily off-the-shelf components that have already been run through the rigors of such tests.

The alternator, for example, will already have such testing, certifications, and approvals. As long as it is being turned at its rated speed, it will produce its rated output, whether the source of the rotating torque is hydro, wind, diesel generator, etc. A home warranty or insurance adjuster should only be concerned with the output of the alternator, which has the necessary credentials. So (I would think) the classification of this unit would be in the same group as a genset, which already has the needed UL or CE ratings.

Customers can buy off-the-shelf grid-tie systems that will sync the generator up with the local grid power, with automatic shut-off, in the case of a grid power failure, so that linemen are not jeopardized by the power coming from the device. A grid tie would be best, since the unit can puts out a constant 5 kW, and with net metering, most homes would come out well ahead at the end of the month; thus speeding up the payback time, in those states where net metering allows for payback for net excess energy generation from the customer's side.

What does this do to the Batteries?

One downside to minimizing a rigorous alpha-testing approach, as I see it, is that the company has not yet been able to study long-term performance results for the system.

The longest it has been run in one setting has been three weeks: once when powering the inventor's home; and once when powering the financier's office -- both for three weeks.

Alex Xanthoulis, CEO of Defkalion, said that he saw a system similar to this 1.5 years ago at a university in Greece. It worked short-term, but it hammered the batteries, so they only lasted a few days. Since the South African company has far exceeded that, it is probably safe to say that their circuitry is different, and doesn't have as much, if any, of a detrimental effect on the batteries.

Licensing Opportunity

The S. African company plans to have each country have their own manufacturing and distribution network, rather than have one primary manufacturer.

The licensee task will entail sourcing the off-the-shelf batteries, DC motor and AC generator (or other end applications for capturing that power from the DC motor shaft, such as a pump); manufacturing the cabinet to house the system; assembling the systems, and distributing them to customers; and servicing the customers.

However, one very important point is that in every case, the licensee will purchase the control system for each unit from the S. African company. That is both to protect the intellectual property and to provide a built-in way for them to get a royalty on each unit sold.

The up-front licensing fee is likely to be low, like a deposit or earnest payment on a property offer. The main revenue for the S. African company will be from sales of the control circuit, which only they will manufacture, containing the proprietary elements.

Potential Licensee Attributes

Usually, when a company talks about licensing a technology, they have all the alpha and beta testing done, with reams of data and spec sheets about the device(s) to be licensed.

In the case of the S. African company, though, potential groups coming in now to license will be early players, and will need to have a different threshold of willingness to assume risk, withstand skepticism, work through bugs, etc.

Potential licensees will need to be able to provide evidence of their capability to perform functions such as:

    * Financial means to capitalize the project (capital expenses will not be that high, compared to other energy device manufacturing scenarios).
    * Ability to source the best, most affordable, reliable, compatible off-the-shelf components.
    * Ability to run installation, maintenance, repair, and other support services.
    * Ability to properly market the device.
    * Proper motivation: humanitarian, not greed-based.
    * Ability to put up with and overcome skepticism, criticism, rudeness, and even overt suppression tactics.


Metamorphosis Rather than Usurpation

The arising of this and other exotic free energy technologies that are both clean and have the potential to render obsolete many energy modalities, might not go over well with those that are already involved in those sectors.

The S. African company hopes to make this transition as minimally disruptive as possible, while still addressing the planet's need for affordable, clean, distributed power, which empowers the individual while rendering obsolete the corrupt powers that be. Good riddance to the latter, but there are many sectors that aren't corrupt which could also be negatively impacted.

In order to minimize this collateral damage, the S. African company will seek to work with those companies to let them be part of this opportunity, rather than be put out of business by it.


Postscript

Just a quick note on the side.

Thanks again for the donations that made all this trip and more possible. You people are awesome. Not one person who donated asked for their money back, even though there was a lot of criticism about how long it took me to get this report up. I will gladly refund any such requests. I promise to put those funds to good use.

I've put this technology up in #1 position in our Top 5, but I should say that they are neck-in-neck with Defkalion. It's close to a tie for first, being very close in terms of price point, closeness to market, quality of team, cleanness of product.

For you naysayers who immediately jump to the conclusion that anything involving "free energy" must be bogus or fraudulent, bear in mind that this company is not seeking money. In fact they spurn any such inquiries.

Oh really?

QuoteFor you naysayers who immediately jump to the conclusion that anything involving "free energy" must be bogus or fraudulent, bear in mind that this company is not seeking money. In fact they spurn any such inquiries.

Here in lies the hook:

QuoteHowever, one very important point is that in every case, the licensee will purchase the control system for each unit from the S. African company. That is both to protect the intellectual property and to provide a built-in way for them to get a royalty on each unit sold.

The up-front licensing fee is likely to be low, like a deposit or earnest payment on a property offer. The main revenue for the S. African company will be from sales of the control circuit, which only they will manufacture, containing the proprietary elements.

But:

QuoteHowever, remember that this FFG system uses primarily off-the-shelf components that have already been run through the rigors of such tests.

The protocol will be reverse engineered and let loose upon the world.

UL listing? If one dislodges from the grid a [License] is not necessary.

From the technical description, it appears that

1.  Two lead-acid batteries were used to start, maintain and recharge another two lead-acid batteries.
2.  Lead-out or Bring-in Energy from the environment is used to power the 5KW load.
3.  The two-acid batteries were swapped from time to time.

I shall talk to the group with recharging lead-acid batteries for electric cars.  There is much similarity.
Their technology is:
1. One lead-acid to start.
2. Lead-out or Bring-in Energy from the environment is used to recharge the whole bank of batteries.
3. The starting battery can be swapped by one of the recharged batteries.

I have full confidence that the South African Company is not a hoax.

The Divine Wine has more than one Server.

Sure sounds a lot like the magnacoaster affair.

We'll see if it actually pans out as described. I'm not holding my breath. :-X

Quote from: poynt99 on 2012.02.22, 22:59:38
We'll see if it actually pans out as described. I'm not holding my breath. :-X

I'd be way past purple by now. :o

You will need cryogenic suspension if you are going to plan waiting for your delivery from Green Power SA.

Meanwhile, look:

QuoteRichard Willis @Magnacoaster,  17th February:

@Sam2a5 soon waiting on all new parts so when we can shoot the video with new parts

Richard Willis @Magnacoaster,  14th February:

New dealer training materials will be done this week

A dealer network?   lol

Quote@Sam2a5 soon waiting on all new parts so when we can shoot the video with new parts

He'll be way past purple.
I personally know 2 people who got ripped off.
One was 6000usd, another was a 300usd controller and a trip up. In both cases nothing was ever received.

Well, Sterling is being raked over the coals now that he has finally made his posting that had to be pre-approved by the entity known as Green Power SA.  The people in South Africa removed anything in the report to do with the "force majeure" which is a laugh.  "Mark Dansie was refused to do any serious testing and we refuse to tell you why."  That really must be giving people the warm and fuzzies.

I actually made a posting that ties in poor Richard Willis so I will repost it here:

There are so many holes that you can poke into this story it's not funny. Quite a few have already been mentioned so I will try to break some fresh ground here.... 

Quoting Sterling: 

<<<They also ran a 40 kW system for us that was set up the same way except with a DC motor suitable to turn a 40 kW generator; and 16 batteries, comprised of 4 sets of batteries in parallel in place of a single set of batteries in the 5 kW set-up.>>> 

We can't be 100% certain if this quote is to be taken literally, they may have told him this but left out a few details. All that being said, you NEVER put banks of big batteries in parallel, NEVER. Sterling, if you actually saw sets of 4 batteries in series, then wired in parallel with other sets of 4 batteries in series, then that is the kiss of death for Green Power SA because it clearly shows that they don't have a clue and are just con artists trying to fake that they know what they are doing. 

For what it's worth, Richard Willis, the moron of Magnacoaster, actually shows big banks of batteries wired in parallel in one of the manuals for his non-existent product.

Quoteyou NEVER put banks of big batteries in parallel

Did you say never, it is common practise with large diesel engines.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NYHAVnqbRCkC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=trucks+use+2+batteries+in+parallel&source=bl&ots=6c-QTR6G55&sig=RYOIaQt75e3qLzNTk5NKgQKsP9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WOpFT7ibBoLH0QW7tdSoDg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=trucks%20use%202%20batteries%20in%20parallel&f=false

The less you discharge the batteries the longer the life.
The main problem is sulfating of one battery, now if this is being pulsed charged then i also understand that desulphating is a common occurrence with these pulsed recharge systems.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.23, 07:34:24
Did you say never, it is common practise with large diesel engines.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NYHAVnqbRCkC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=trucks+use+2+batteries+in+parallel&source=bl&ots=6c-QTR6G55&sig=RYOIaQt75e3qLzNTk5NKgQKsP9U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WOpFT7ibBoLH0QW7tdSoDg&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=trucks%20use%202%20batteries%20in%20parallel&f=false

The less you discharge the batteries the longer the life.
The main problem is sulfating of one battery, now if this is being pulsed charged then i also understand that desulphating is a common occurrence with these pulsed recharge systems.

Thank you for posting the correct information. 

@Peterae,
In the SA situation though it is equivalent to a stun gun circuit. A (2) 9vdc batteries in parallel can bring down a 250 lb man. But how many times before the batteries are dead?
It would take many triggers pulls before the man will get back up and we go around again until the gun has no stun.
In the SA scenario we didn't get the luxury of spending time.

What I have seen people fall for is the battery bank switching explanation. Might work in some cases but for the inexperienced they are told the batteries act as capacitors to hold a charge. This is where the con men have set hooks. But we all know they just increased the voltage and current by the # of batteries in place. I know you know this. We all should.

unfortunately when i here the words OU and big battery banks in the same sentence then i seem to loose interest in the device  C.C

MH that must have been 1 big battery they used in the old submarines or maybe they had to parallel them because you cannot get a zillion amp hour battery as a single unit.

and again  :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_room

QuoteThe type of battery most commonly employed in battery rooms is the flooded lead-acid battery. Batteries are installed in groups. Several batteries are wired together in a series circuit forming a group providing DC electric power at 12, 24, 48 or 60 volts (or higher). Usually there are two or more groups of series-connected batteries. These groups of batteries are connected in a parallel circuit.

I think you are missing MH's point with regards to the batteries in parallel.

In my experience, lead acid batteries in parallel will slowly discharge through each other unless absolutely perfectly matched, but I'm sure MH will elaborate.

MH,  I'm not sure it is relevant to this discussion but I have to ask why you say you never put large batteries in parallel?  I've been putting them in series and parallel for years on a huge 48 volt Trace Inverter.  Everything works fine.  I've even got some 12 volt batteries over 20 years old that still hold a charge well (those old ones were discarded phone system backup batteries @ about 100 pounds each).  I even mix and match with a lot of other batteries and they all work fine.  They outlast typical car usage.  I do believe these inverters use a sophisticated charging scheme that keeps them in good shape. 

and what is your reason for saying that 2 battery's in parallel will discharge Farah, i have never heard of this the impedance mismatch just means one battery will tend to fully discharge before the other under a long full load and damage it before the other battery reaches the same point, the life of the first battery to over discharge will sulphate, but no energy will magically disappear when they are in parallel

I think the potential problem is with the difference in terminal voltage of each. If they are not exactly the same, then the higher one will discharge into the lower one. But this should be ok too, they will equalize.

The important thing to note, is that it is preferable to always use the same battery type together, and even the same exact model if possible.

.99

http://www.overunity.com/11851/any-proof/msg313694/#msg313694

My theory behind the South Africa Company is outlined in that thread.

Quote
I would like to bring attention to one important fact.

The use of the battery is to achieve the "commercial resonance condition".  Once this condition is achieved, energy will be led-out or brought-in from the environment.

The battery is NOT the primary source of energy in the FLEET or the South Africa Company devices.

Thus we can use the two oscilloscope Power Waveform Comparison Method to find large "standing wave occurrences" or "commercial resonance conditions".  Once such a condition is hinted by the Waveform Comparison, we can go into the more detailed analysis with the data in the CSV files.

Appreciate the Divine Wine.

e2matrix:

Batteries are considered to be voltage sources and lead-acid batteries can have a very low output impedance, on the order of milliohms. By definition, you never connect voltage sources in parallel. Supposing that you have a freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series so the voltage is (4 x 12.6) = 50.4 volts. Supposing that you have another freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series. However, in this case because of natural variations in batteries the voltage on this bank happens to be 51.6 volts.  

So, what will happen when you connect a bank with a nominal voltage of 50.4 volts in parallel with another bank where the nominal voltage is 51.6 volts?  

The answer is that you will see voltage somewhere in between, say 51.0 volts. However, what you will not see, is that the bank with the higher voltage will be DISCHARGING into the bank with the lower voltage. Because the impedances of the battery banks are so low, the current could actually be very high, 10 or 20 or 50 amps.  

When you put two batteries in parallel, this is very unhealthy, they are voltage sources and they will "fight" with each other to try to maintain their own output voltage.  

With big lead-acid batteries, there is a potential for serious danger. The high discharge of current could cause the "stronger" bank to heat up, and that will make it's output voltage go even higher. That will cause even more current to flow, which will cause the batteries to get even hotter, etc. This has the potential to set up a positive feedback loop and both battery banks can spiral out of control in a form of "thermonuclear meltdown." It can be a very dangerous situation.  

In simple terms you should never connect any batteries in parallel, even AAA cells. There is a very simple way to correct for this situation for the example we are discussing here. It's simply to use big power diodes at the output of each set of batteries.  

Sourcing and receiving 50 amperes is not usually a problem with most 100 Ah batteries.

Again, this condition would only occur until they equalize. There is no danger of runaway. The source battery discharging and possibly heating up is a sort of self regulating process anyway. In the event it heats up and the terminal voltage tries to increase, the internal resistance will also increase, AND the current delivered will try to increase, but there will now be more drop across Rinternal, and the voltage will decrease again.

If you start with batteries that are of the same type (and model preferably) and relatively close state of charge, there should never be a problem.

.99

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.24, 00:35:46
e2matrix:

Batteries are considered to be voltage sources and lead-acid batteries can have a very low output impedance, on the order of milliohms. By definition, you never connect voltage sources in parallel. Supposing that you have a freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series so the voltage is (4 x 12.6) = 50.4 volts. Supposing that you have another freshly charged bank of four good batteries in series. However, in this case because of natural variations in batteries the voltage on this bank happens to be 51.6 volts.  

So, what will happen when you connect a bank with a nominal voltage of 50.4 volts in parallel with another bank where the nominal voltage is 51.6 volts?  

The answer is that you will see voltage somewhere in between, say 51.0 volts. However, what you will not see, is that the bank with the higher voltage will be DISCHARGING into the bank with the lower voltage. Because the impedances of the battery banks are so low, the current could actually be very high, 10 or 20 or 50 amps.  

When you put two batteries in parallel, this is very unhealthy, they are voltage sources and they will "fight" with each other to try to maintain their own output voltage.  

With big lead-acid batteries, there is a potential for serious danger. The high discharge of current could cause the "stronger" bank to heat up, and that will make it's output voltage go even higher. That will cause even more current to flow, which will cause the batteries to get even hotter, etc. This has the potential to set up a positive feedback loop and both battery banks can spiral out of control in a form of "thermonuclear meltdown." It can be a very dangerous situation.  

In simple terms you should never connect any batteries in parallel, even AAA cells. There is a very simple way to correct for this situation for the example we are discussing here. It's simply to use big power diodes at the output of each set of batteries.  

I don't think the situation is that big of a deal.  I look at it this way. Let's say if rest voltage of the battery is 12.6V, then it is at 100% capacity.   So  what if the battery is at 12.9V ?  A depleted voltage of this battery is 11.7V .  Does this means 12.9V is at 133% capacity?  I think it is just fluffy voltage maybe 101% capacity? lol  So we have a bank of 100% capacity and 101% capacity.  It'll equalized at roughly 100.5% .  This is highly improbable for a thermonuclear meltdown. lol

"spiral out of control in a form of "thermonuclear meltdown."

Wow!. I never knew that. Maybe a good way to get rid of a useless boss?

The only danger in connecting this way is when the 'connector' doesn't know what he is doing. Think of the circuit as two tanks of water side-by-side with a single valved pipe between them.

It is a self-regulating situation unless something is seriously wrong with one of the batteries.

I always tell folk to not make such connections. The reason is most folks can be idiots with even such a simple principle. I've connected hundreds of 4D to 8D battery sets together with no problems. Most of them are probably still connected and in use.
I believe an 8D battery weighs about 200lbs wet. Those are lead-acid.

I've done the same with 1-ton Edison gel-cell & NiCad types for computer center emergency power systems.

Connecting such batteries in parallel is no indication the battery user is a fool. It is an indication that he may be dangerous if he doesn't know what he is doing.

It was not the best choice of words, "thermal runaway" and of course I don't actually do this stuff and have real world expertise like WaveWatcher.

On a theoretical level perhaps many people didn't see why it's wrong to put batteries in parallel and hopefully they do now.

On a practical level it still makes sense to use the diodes.  I get the feeling that solar cell and inverter system installations are the latest bandwagon. You have unskilled people that don't really know what they are doing and are just in it for the money.

A possible "thermal runnaway" situation would more accurately described like this:  It's not literally a positive-feedback thermal runnaway, but if you have a healthy bank of batteries discharging into an unhealthy bank of batteries and the batteries are large and in an enclosed space, the heat could build up to the boiling point and beyond.  Just like the World Trade Center fires.  With an extended quasi-short circuit situation, who knows what could happen.  You can't forget how much energy there is stored in big batteries.  Can a dangerous scenario actually happen in very rare cases?  I don't know with 100% certainty but I suspect it can.

Imagine two brand new sets of batteries, the sets wired in series, and then each set wired in parallel.  Suppose battery set A was manufactured in batch A and battery set B was manufactured in batch B.  Suppose that the batch A batteries will start to wear out after 500 cycles and suppose batch B was an "off batch" and they start to show signs of wearing out after only 300 cycles.

What are the implications here?  I suppose that it's possible that after 300 cycles that battery set A will consistently discharge in to battery set B after every recharge cycle.  So you think that your solar cells are recharging your batteries, but every time you do this what actually happens is a charge cycle followed by a bank to bank discharge cycle.  The banks don't "balance out" in this scenario, because one bank is healthy and the other bank is worn out.  That will cause your pair of battery banks to undergo a form of self-strangulation.  And the whole time you are blissfully unaware because you thought that you were fine since you bought the same brand and model number of new batteries at the same time.

So, all of this uncertainty could be eliminated with the judicious use of a few power diodes.  Personally, I would never permit the installation of a big array of batteries with banks wired in parallel without the use of diodes.

MileHigh

In the real world you need to connect lead acid battery's in parallel, Li fePo4 are connected in parallel all the time and have extremely low impedance's, in the battery pack i have on my bike there are 12 series banks each bank is 10 cells in parallel.

even connecting a fully charged high capacity battery to a fully discharged high capacity battery is not dangerous, Ever jump start a car, have you ever seen the spark that happens when you connect these 2 battery's together, well it's a small spark, and the jump leads only get mildly warm, why is that bearing in mind connecting 2 zillion AH battery's together that the wiring and thermal mass of the battery's are much larger.

Quote from: Peterae on 2012.02.24, 08:13:27
In the real world you need to connect lead acid battery's in parallel, Li fePo4 are connected in parallel all the time and have extremely low impedance's, in the battery pack i have on my bike there are 12 series banks each bank is 10 cells in parallel.

even connecting a fully charged high capacity battery to a fully discharged high capacity battery is not dangerous, Ever jump start a car, have you ever seen the spark that happens when you connect these 2 battery's together, well it's a small spark, and the jump leads only get mildly warm, why is that bearing in mind connecting 2 zillion AH battery's together that the wiring and thermal mass of the battery's are much larger.

I agree that there are times that we need to connect batteries in parallel, and the jump starting of a car is a good example. But think of it this way, if 8mm copper jump leads get warm from one 12v lead acid battery in parallel jump starting a car, then imagine the current that would potentially flow from a bank of charged batteries into a bank of discharged batteries... that would be meltdown current!

We used to use a lead acid battery connected in parallel with our car battery when we went camping. The camping battery had a bit of a dodgy cell, but was ok for providing camping light in the tent at night. However we had to make sure that it was disconnected from the main car battery when the car was not in use because our good car battery would be continually trying to top it up until we were left with two discharged batteries. Hence it only takes one slightly faulty cell to continually discharge good batteries at a much greater rate than the self-discharge rate.

Sterling states that the Green Power device apparently has only been tested for a maximum of 3 weeks before it packed up. I assume that this is the life expectancy of these banks of lead acid batteries... so after just 3 weeks you will have to fork out another couple of hundred quid to buy new ones?!  :'(

Is it me or do some theoretical people seem to have trouble with real world use of standard technology.

In the real world it is quiet usuall to put more than one battery in parallel, in the real world this is not a problem.

You see the melt down situation MH spoke about cannot possibly happen, the reason for this is with a discharged battery the impedance is high, the more  discharged it is the higher the impedance is, this battery with regard to melt down situations is in practise approaching an open circuit, there will be heat dissipated because yes there will be current flowing, but the low impedance and thermal mass of the fully charged battery which has a very low impedance but not as low as the wire will get hotter, infact a battery charger or alternator only manages to recharge a lead acid battery by elevating the charge voltage to above the battery discharge voltage because of this, otherwise you may die of old age waiting for the battery to charge fully.

It does not take a lot of internal resistance for the source battery to lower it's terminal voltage enough for the target battery to take little current.

If you place a charged car battery in parallel with a discharged battery, how long do you think it will take for the discharged battery to take half the charge away from the charged battery, well i can tell you that you could probably go down the pub, get pissed, sleep of the hangover and it may just be almost there barring losses, this i must say is a world apart from the meltdown situation MH spoke of, and this is scaled up to any size of battery because the thermal mass also increases with AH, now i am not saying this is good practise, anyone in the practical world knows not to do this.

So to recap, you can always connect lead acid battery's in Parallel this is 1/never.

I have been pushing this because this is very basic practical torch battery/ bulb stuff. :)

I think that maybe we are all confusing the issue here and that our conflicting opinions may be down to experience. Remember that we are talking about banks of lead acid batteries and relating this to the Green Power device.  Sure there are many everyday applications where batteries in parallel are used, required and indeed work efficiently, but here we are talking about a so-called Free Energy device that is relying on lead acid battery banks. And of course the main issue will be with rechargeable batteries

Peterae, you yourself said earlier that when you see OU and battery banks in the same sentence that you start to lose interest, rightly so. I agree.

When considering battery banks, even a slight mismatch in battery internal impedance can result in one battery working much harder than another. One battery may get constantly over-charged, while the other never gets fully charged.  The longevity of the batteries in banks can be a real issue. And once just one battery (or cell) starts to fail the whole bank can quickly lose performance.

I have known a brand new lead acid battery being completely ruined by being fast-charged from fully drained.  The current can produce enough heat to warp the lead plates, so imagine the current that would flow from a fully charged battery into a fully discharged battery! Both batteries are likely to suffer at least some damage, if not be completely ruined. I have also seen a fast-charger cause a lead acid battery to literally explode, so in the real world, MH's concerns are not so far-fetched.

Sterling stated that one of the battery banks was discharged to 50% - 70% - that's very discharged given that it is not recommended ever to discharge a lead acid battery below 80%.

I can see that there are potentially some extremely heavy currents flowing between batteries and battery banks, and I'd put money on this causing battery longevity issues.

Here's an excerpt of text that perhaps better explains what I was trying to convey:   

Quote
In the RV arena, none of the coach makers put PB in parallel any more. They found out after years of testing that while charging in parallel is fine, in discharging one battery gives its "all" first and the other "loafs". The two batteries have different internal impedences, so one battery is always being discharged more than the other. As the battery ages, the lower impedence battery is always giving max current and therefore its PB plates are undergoing sulpharization more rapidly than the other. So one battery dies of "old age" while the other has only given half of its life cycle. And the problem is that the dying battery now starts to pull down the "loafing" battery. In short, the two batteries do not yield anything like twice the lifetime of a single battery. That is why the RV coach batteries have two marine 6 volt cells in series rather than cheaper 12 volt deep discharge in parallel. You get longer battery life with the two in series.

Some people have negated this problem with the following. They put knife switches on both batteries in parallel. They always charge in parallel. When its time to use the coach battery, they shut off one switch. When that battery starts to get low, they reverse the switches and keep going. This tends to give equal use to both batteries and gives a longer service life. The only problem is remembering to set the switches.

MH said you never put lead acid battery's in parallel

This is just not true, simple as that.
I have explained exactly why, but you still go on, why is that

QuoteSterling stated that one of the battery banks was discharged to 50% - 70% - that's very discharged given that it is not recommended ever to discharge a lead acid battery below 80%.

Have you ever heard of deep discharge battery's? what do you think these have been designed to do.

Quoteso imagine the current that would flow from a fully charged battery into a fully discharged battery

Who is it that is doing this anyway, can you show me where it was stated that somewhere in SA they do this? or is even talking about this a waste of time.

No need to get in a tizzy, Peterae.

I think that when MH stated that you never put lead acid batteries in parallel it was for the reasons I have been attempting to illustrate, and perhaps unlike yourself, I obviously - given the nature of this thread - assumed he was relating in particular to Green Power battery banks.

For sure I would expect Green Power to be using deep cycle batteries in the first place, and it was in fact these batteries that I was relating to. A normal lead acid car battery can suffer if discharged regularly to just below 50%, whereas a deep cycle lead acid battery can tolerate greater discharge levels, but 80% is their limit!

I think you have taken what MH said a little too literally and have become a little obsessed by the word, NEVER... and you say I go on! C.C

Oh, and yes, talking about it does appear to be a total waste of time.

MileHigh has a good point regarding putting Lead Acid Batteries in parallel.
If you can avoid doing so, the you does not do that. The thing to do is using
larger cells to get you amperage. The attached image is a Rolls 2-KS-33P
and you put 6 in series to get 12 Volt. (More for higher voltage.)
Normally you use a higher voltage inverter for home systems.
(Like 48 volt or higher.) That way you get a lot of Wattage out of you batteries
when there is no sun or wind to recharge.
If you look at your solar panels then you can see that each panel has
a series diode to prevent that one panel in the shade will load your
series and paralleled panels. Same goes for your wind mills, a diode
bridge on each wind generator. It is not practical to put diodes on the
batteries because you want the batteries to be on the same voltage
bus as the solar panels and the wind mills. Most large inverters has
a built in battery charger so that in not a problem. The main problem
is to avoid over charging and high discharging of the battery bank.
This is solved by dumping excess power to a water heater tank,
and if that is not enough, to a external heater that just waste the extra
power as heat outside. You can switch off your solar panels but
you can not switch off the load to your wind mills. They need load
all the time when the wind is blowing.

GL.

Thanks MH, poynt99 and all for additional info on parallel batteries.  I've got battery temperature sensors specifically made for my inverter and despite a lot of mix and match types have never seen any of them get warm.  All 12 volt batteries are wired in parallel banks and those parallel banks are then wired in series to give 48 volts.  I've had 3 different setups like this for about 15 years and never a problem.  But it's good to know the potential is there and to keep an eye on things as any big batteries have enough power to to damage.  It seems at least in real world use that parallel batteries are not a problem if you start with good batteries in close voltage range.  I have had a couple start to drop a bit and pulled them out of the setup.  Generally if any single 12 volt battery won't hold around 12.5 volts when disconnected after a charge it gets put on probation and anything much lower than that will be pulled ;)

The "Secret" to the successful and reliable
utilization of Lead Acid Batteries, whether series
or parallel connected, is Knowledge.

Fortunately, this knowledge is easily attainable
with moderate research effort thanks to the
World Wide Web.

For long life the batteries must never be abused
(overcharged, overheated, under-watered) and
must never be permitted to accumulate hardened
sulfation in their plates.  It helps to understand how
the plates are stressed by the discharge/charge cycles;
how the lead sulfate is formed and how it "grows" the
plates during discharge.   Then how it "shrinks" back
into active materials as the battery is charged.

One must learn the safe procedures for both
equalization and desulfation.

With adequate knowledge it is relatively easy to
assure that the batteries are treated with care
and properly maintained. Lead acid batteries
must be carefully monitored to avoid permanent
damage.

Most lead acid batteries which suffer extensive and
permanent damage are the victims of under-educated
users (abusers.)  Although, in fairness, it must be
pointed out that accidents do occasionally happen.

In the words of Mark Twain:  Never let "schooling"
get in the way of your "education."

See below...

There are a few concerns I have about the methodology that was used to test the motor-generator system that Sterling witnessed in South Africa.

This concern revolves around measuring the output power.   I did not see an explicit mention that a watt meter was used, just a list of some electric appliances that were plugged in and their watt ratings.    Some example:  a toster, a heater, etc...     What concerns me is the fact that most electric heaters have thermostats inside, and turn off when a certain temperature is reached, or they could have multiple watt settings, so which setting was it set to?    It sounds like they are sloppy with their measurments.    

On a positive note, I'm glad that they explained to Sterling how the system works in general terms at least.   It sounds like it could be very close to the Ismael Aviso system, except that they power a generator instead of a vehicle.   Mr. Aviso's system harvest the kickback from the coils just like this system.   Could there be energy amplification in the motor when this is performed, or just a more efficient way to operate?

EM

Well, Sterling pulled the plug on the comments on the most recent article.  He like usual appears to be trying to act like the North American agent for the South African company.  Sterling doesn't worry about conflict of interest considering he pitches himself as a journalist.

EM, the testing was a complete farce.  It was only supposed to be a quick test anyways, and Mark Dansie and an engineer were supposed to follow-up a few days later and do real testing.  They were flat-out refused by the company under the guise of a "force majeure."

Sterling is supposed to receive a unit for testing in "March" but in Las Vegas the odds are 500 to one and rising.

There ain't no Coupe de Ville at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

Mr. Allen, tear down this wall!

What always rings alarm bells for me with this kind of thing - apart from the seriously suspect 3 hour test - is why would Green Power not use a custom built resistive load?  

Instead they had a mish-mash of appliances, many of which would themselves feature thermostats as EM has alluded to, so at best power dissipation would be erratic.  It simply makes no sense unless you want to deliberately muddy the waters, and you would only do this if you have something to hide.

The other thing I really can't get my head around is why Sterling, after travelling thousands of miles, would not want to sit with the device running for at least a day! I had to smile when Sterling states that under the near 4kW load, the machine should normally run down and stop working after 35 minutes... but then goes for lunch after just 41 minutes. It's laughable.  You can imagine the guys at Green Power starting to sweat a bit around the half-hour mark (no doubt the reason for the 40W fan) and thinking, come on, it's time to get Sterling out of here quick... it's lunch time!   C.C

It was well within Sterling's means along with his associate to take two 12-hour shifts and sit in front of the device for a full 24 hours non-stop.  The fact that the company didn't demonstrate the device with a proper load, say something borrowed from their alleged production line, speaks volumes.  For a lousy $50 USD they could have gone to a local discount store and purchased four 1200-watt 220 VAC blow dryers.  In other words they could have improvised their own 4.8 kilowatt load very easily on the spot.

Then Mark Dansie and the engineer were refused access after flying to South Africa.  You can imagine something like a scene from an old Peter Sellers movie.  They arrive, sign an iron-clad NDA, and then are refused access.  <<<There was a case of tuberculous in the factory.>>>  So they have to turn around and go home and they can't say anything.  It's just so ridiculous.

It's really maddening to see how every story like this always ends up as a farce.  Sterling in his never-ending conflict of interest has now listed them as the #1 most promising free energy technology on his top-five list.

They will never ship a unit to Sterling because it doesn't work.  Sterling pulled the comments from the most recent article, and now almost unbelievably Green Power SA comes out on top.  The article is there on the PESN site with no negative comments, and that allows for them to hope for some gullible marks to get sucked into the con.

You can imagine something like this over the phone, "Yes sir we are accepting orders for this revolutionary technology.  Because of unprecedented demand we have to prioritize our order processing system.  If you want earlier delivery we can accept payment of a 50% deposit up front, with the balance of the payment due withing 30 days after delivering the unit.  Thank you sir for supporting this revolutionary clean energy technology.  By showing your interest in prioritizing your order you help support the spread of green free energy technology and all the benefits that will give back to the environment."

They are probably writing out the phone script as we speak.

Ah MH, you're such a pessimist!
:P

;D

I know!  It's terrible!  Why?  Why?  Whyyyy?  lol

How come Sterling didn't monitor the setup for a full 24 hours and report good results???  How some Mark Dansie and the electrical engineer didn't report even better results after much more exhaustive testing??

Why doesn't Rossi want to make an easy one million dollars and all the free publicity that will give him?  Why???

I want the ultimate in uninterruptable power supplies for my computer..... and for my life!!!

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.25, 17:12:39


I want the ultimate in uninterruptable power supplies for my computer..... and for my life!!!

You didn't say please. lol

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.25, 16:51:04
...
1.  Then Mark Dansie and the engineer were refused access after flying to South Africa.  You can imagine something like a scene from an old Peter Sellers movie.  They arrive, sign an iron-clad NDA, and then are refused access.  <<<There was a case of tuberculous in the factory.>>>  So they have to turn around and go home and they can't say anything.  It's just so ridiculous.
...

2..  They will never ship a unit to Sterling because it doesn't work.

MH -- can you provide the source(s) for your information to support your assertions delineated 1) and 2) above?
1) Who says Mark Dansie was refused access? can you verify?
2) Who says "They will never ship a unit to Sterling"?

Thanks.

PhysicsProf:

I'm just using an aggressive writing style, of course I don't literally know those things.  However, all of the information so far points to Green Power SA being a scam.  Do you have an opinion yourself one way or the other?

What we know for certain is that Mark Dansie and another person flew all the way to South Africa and they did not get to see the device.  Any thoughts about that?  We also know that the company offered Sterling Allen a "free" unit instead of accepting the cold hard cash that was donated to him to purchase a unit.  Can you speculate on why that would be the case?

I also noticed that Sterling's recent article about his trip entitled "South African Fuel-Free Generator Preparing for Market" has been echoed on several other no-name free energy and alternative sites.  So that means the articles he writes get picked up on a kind of second-tier round of web sites to sit around for years and years.

Meanwhile, three postings about this company (and I use that term loosely) from OU are worth mentioning:

QuoteCap-Z-ro,

this is really great news!
The back emf finally put into efficient use.

I read Sterlin D. Allans report and asked him how to get a unit.

He answered that the inventors, prior to selling their first 200 units, which are being manufactured in march,
first of all want to test-run all 200 units for 30 days to be sure that their step into the market will be unflawed.

Thereafter the local licencee will take over the sales, and the price for a unit will be around 6000 $.

Gwandau

There's an example of the type of person Green Power SA is looking for, someone willing to send them money with no proof that the device works.

Here is another interesting posting from "Bob Smith:"

QuoteBased on my observations, I would agree - in the sense that this may be more than just BEMF harvesting, and perhaps more akin to Lee's developments.  The way I see it, this implies producing oscillation at resonance, which creates an imbalance in the aether, which provokes the aether to pour its energy into the circuit.

That's the oldest cliche in the book.  Seems strange that after years and years on the free energy web sites that nobody is able to do this.

Now Gotoluc has chimed in:

QuoteHi everyone,

I must say this sounds promising.

The other interesting thing is I'm presently in South Africa and will be in the Johannesburg area from March 10th to April 27th. Then I return to my home in Ottawa, Canada.

I'll try to contact Sterling to see if I can also get a demo of the technology

Luc

There are a total of five postings on this new OU thread and every single one of them has something positive to say and one of the posters is already poised to spend money.  That's in contrast to the narrative up to this point that clearly suggests that this is a fraud just like Magnacoaster is a fraud.

MileHigh

I'm quite surprised that Chet hasn't jumped on this bandwagon yet - I would have expected him to have a couple of these babies on back order by now!  ;)

Joking aside boys, the 'DOTS' are there for all to see, it just seems that some of us are far more experienced at joining them up than others.  :)

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.25, 21:19:04
PhysicsProf:

I'm just using an aggressive writing style, of course I don't literally know those things. MileHigh

I see.  

QuoteHowever, all of the information so far points to Green Power SA being a scam.  Do you have an opinion yourself one way or the other?

What we know for certain is that Mark Dansie and another person flew all the way to South Africa and they did not get to see the device.  Any thoughts about that?  We also know that the company offered Sterling Allen a "free" unit instead of accepting the cold hard cash that was donated to him to purchase a unit.  Can you speculate on why that would be the case? [snip] MileHigh

 I would strongly recommend caution, as I also recommended for the claims of Rossi (proton capture by nickel nuclei, but no gamma spectra released), for example.

I like to see data, careful repeated measurements.  I'll wait, patiently.
 

Quote from: MileHigh on 2012.02.25, 16:51:04
It was well within Sterling's means along with his associate to take two 12-hour shifts and sit in front of the device for a full 24 hours non-stop. 

I agree. It is obvious that the volume of the device and the quantity of measured energy are fully compatible with conventional means of energy production (good batteries). So their test is not conclusive because it didn't last enough.

Quote
...
Then Mark Dansie and the engineer were refused access after flying to South Africa.  You can imagine something like a scene from an old Peter Sellers movie.  They arrive, sign an iron-clad NDA, and then are refused access.  <<<There was a case of tuberculous in the factory.>>>
...

;D

Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2012.02.25, 22:03:34
...
I would strongly recommend caution, as I also recommended for the claims of Rossi (proton capture by nickel nuclei, but no gamma spectra released), for example.
...

The South African and Rossi's devices differ at least on two essential points:
1- the e-cat have been witnessed by skilled people: professional physicists. Even though the measurement protocol is not strong enough and questions are not answered about the gamma production, we are far from the ridiculous test of the South African device by Sterling Allan.

2- the South African device is compatible with conventional means. It doesn't produce more energy than can produce the same volume of batteries, so it can easily be a fake.
For the e-cat, there is no conventional alternative explanation for the production of this huge heat quantity.

The south African and Rossi's devices must not be put on the same level. Until now, only the first one appears as a joke.

I suppose that a clock is starting on Green Power SA.  If they don't deliver a magic box to Sterling by the end of March, I propose the end of May, two months later, as being when the clock runs out.

I am predicting no delivery to Sterling at all, and no press related to the supposed list of customers lined up to receive the first 200 units.  Chances are that by the end of May Green Power SA will be off of Sterling's "Top 5" list.

With no delivery of a unit there will be no ability to make measurements as PhysicsProf is hoping for.  Naturally we all would hope for some seriously done measurements but honestly how often do we see them in situations like this?

Again, my proposed model for Green Power SA is as follows:  Generate some positive press from the free energy and alternative web sites with the knowledge that this positive press will recirculate forever on the unofficial secondary list of web sites.  There may be hundreds or more of these web sites in existence.  Stoke the fires by releasing some photos of the alleged device and marketing brochures and some alleged test data.  Then take orders with payment terms that are either 100% payment up front or perhaps a 50% payment up front.

Let's suppose that over 18 months they get 100 100% payment up front orders and 200 50% payment up front orders.   So that's (100 x 6000) + (200 x 3000) = $1,200,000.  So that's 1.2 million dollars.   For that kind of money it's worth it to put some batteries in a box with a motor and a generator.  Likewise, it was worth it for them to entertain Sterling for a few days and show him some blinking lights.

MileHigh

Lawrence:

QuoteThe material cost of all the above should not be more than US$1,000.  It is a matter of how fast other parties can reverse engineer or break the patent.  If the basic technology is getting to a "commercial resonance condition" via some type of pulsing and resonance circuits, there will be little chance of a patent covering all possible commercial resonance conditions.  The chance of a low-cost production Country coming out with a low-price version within months is very high.

However, there can still be some limited degree of patent protection.  The South Africa Company may be using the right approach – get many other Companies to evaluate together, license the technology quickly, go public and earn its money on the Stock Market.  They deserve to have the fame and wealth as they beat everyone else to come out with the marketable product.

May God Bless this Wine Server.

You must acknowledge that there is simply no evidence that this device works as claimed.  Both you and Rosemary Ainslie are indicating that you believe that the device works without any supporting evidence.  This is not a scientific approach and it lacks wisdom.

Wait until the end of May to see if there is any credible and convincing evidence that this device works and is for real.  If there is no evidence by the end of May, then I submit to you that this whole thing is like a Perendev motor scheme.

My instincts tell me that there is no wine here, just bitter vinegar.  Take your time and do it right.

MileHigh

Green Power's device now serves wine, too!  ;D

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2012.02.27, 22:18:44
Green Power's device now serves wine, too!  ;D

Let us hope so!

Wine is good for the heart, mind and soul.

(In moderation mind you.)

A few more interesting comments.

Here is a quote from the contact person at Green Power SA via Gotoluc via Sterling:

QuoteHi everyone,

I did contact Sterling by email to see if I could also get a demo.

Sterling relied:

The S. African company sent the following on February 22, 2012 3:48 PM, about 6 hours after we first posted the story:      

"I appreciate your enthusiasm but need to pull the reins back a bit. I mentioned when you were here that we first want to trial with the corporates. This process needs to go ahead now and we will entertain licensees thereafter so let's hold off on the discussions with potential guys for now as we are being flooded and I don't want to distract from our strategy..... "


So it looks like a no go for a Demo :(

Luc

Firstly, you can clearly see a Bait and Switch in process here.  They said something to Sterling like "We want to show you the technology IS real."  They were implying that the units were real at the factory and being tested and they would be starting to ship in March.  Now it's vague, some trials with corporate customers are going to be underway for the immediate future.  For how long?  They don't say.  That could be six months, that could be a year or more, easily.  That is if there actually are some corporate customers.  It's my firm belief that there are in fact no corporate customers for the alleged first 200 units.

So, you can clearly see all the writing on the wall in the transition from alleged real working hardware to vapourware.  Note that this still keeps the sales pipeline wide open.  "We will be pleased to accept your order and we have already shipped out the first 200 units to corporate customers."  "We are holding back on shipping your unit until we get the data back from our corporate beta test sites.  This is critical and we may use this data to upgrade and improve the product before we ship it to you."

Notice this phrase, "we first want to trial with the corporates."  I find this to be a really strange choice of words.  I have visited with and sold technology to literally hundreds of tech companies over the past 20+ years.  I have never in my life heard a phrase like that in business dealings with corporate customers.  You would say something like "We first have to run trials with our corporate beta test sites."  The word "corporates" is never ever used.

So I was wondering if this might be a lexicon issue, perhaps it's is a phrase used in South African or European business parlance.  So I did a search on the phrase "we first want to trial with the corporates."  Lo an behold, the phrase comes up nowhere except in Sterling's quote from the Green Power SA guy.

So this means it's not a difference in business lexicon between North America and South Africa.  Instead, it's telling you that the person from Green Power SA doesn't even know standard technical business English relating to corporate customers and beta test sites.  The reason for this is abundantly clear to me.  In my opinion this is yet another clear indicator that this company is a fraud, they are con artists.

MileHigh

A few more comments about this alleged product.

This is a "magic inverter."  It's a stand-alone box that outputs AC power in a very low-tech way, a motor drives an alternator.  In this day and age, it's almost a "Stone Age" way of implementing a power inverter.

This is not the type of product that you need to send to corporate customers willing to act as beta test sites.  It really isn't.  Not to say that you can't do this but it makes no sense.  Rather, this is a product where you put about 10 of them in a test lab and have them drive loads 24/7 for a few months.  You want to do the testing yourself, there is very little to be gained by having beta test sites for this product.  You can test it yourself under differing load conditions and with inductive and capacitive reactive loads.  You would want to test it when the load is a switching power supply.  By using corporate beta test sites you delay your launch to market for no valid reason.  It simply doesn't make sense for this type of product to go the corporate beta test site route.

This is a product that you would put thermocouples all over while you test it.  You can easily envision 10 units under test and each unit having between 10 and 30 thermocouples on it.  That's to check to see if the motor bearings or electronics overheat, etc.  Getting a complete thermal profile for this device would be very important.

Then certainly, you would want to put several units individually in an "oven."  Sometimes called a "temperature cycling oven" or an "environmental test chamber."  That's where you test the unit driving a load, still with thermocouples all over it, while the ambient environment in the temperature cycling oven goes up and down in temperature and you also vary the humidity of the air.

If you do all the above, you absolutely do not need corporate beta test sites.  Again, for this particular product, it makes no sense to have corporate beta test sites.

Also, it doesn't make any sense to have 200 units out for beta testing.  It's simply too many units and would generate too much data, most of it redundant.  It represents too much cash tied up for nothing.  Perhaps a maximum of 25 test sites would make sense, but like I already said it doesn't make sense in the first place.

These are just more points for your consideration to make you see what a bunch of fake baloney this whole thing is.

MileHigh

As far as the product itself goes, no serious tech company would touch it with a ten-foot pole.  It makes you wonder who all of these alleged "corporate customers" might be.

As far as licensing the alleged technology goes, that implies that you have a few hundred thousand dollars to invest in developing a functioning product and getting agency approvals to sell the product in the marketplace.  Because of the huge investment, you would be insane to get licensing rights before you had absolute 100% proof that this magic box actually works.  But, if there was 100% proof the product actually worked, it would be the biggest news story in the 21st century, and it's not like you could then hire your electrical engineer and your mechanical engineer and develop your product.  This would be so big that the entire world would change and your business aspirations might still be possible, but your thunder would be drowned out by the speeches going on at the United Nations and by President Obama.  There is simply no such thing as a little South African company making free energy inverters and dealing with other companies that want to get licensing rights.  It's just wouldn't happen like that.  The news would be so Earth-shattering that it's hard to imagine what would really happen.

These are yet even more points for your consideration to make you see what a bunch of fake baloney this whole thing is.

MileHigh

Lawrence:

You believe that the free Green Power SA unit will be shipped to Sterling and I don't.  Let's put that disagreement aside for now.  Let's assume that the device will ship.

You said this:

QuoteYou can visit him and Prof. Steven Jones in Utah when the 5KW unit arrive.  I plan on that.

I plan to bring my oscilloscopes etc. so that more scientific tests can be done.  You should do the same.

Can you tell us how you would test the device?

Thanks,

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh...
This is a "magic inverter."  It's a stand-alone box that outputs AC power in a very low-tech way, a motor drives an alternator.  In this day and age, it's almost a "Stone Age" way of implementing a power inverter.
...

If, however, the motor is utilized as a
source of inductive kickback (pulse
driven series wound motor) then an
alternator may not be a bad choice for
producing AC power.  It is a convenient
source of Pure Sine Wave AC which may
be better than an electronic inverter for
several reasons.

If properly done it is within the realm of
possibility.  I'd like to know more about
the device before coming to any definite
[speculative] conclusions.

Indeed a real alternator driven by a motor has its advantages for generating the output sine wave.  This would be significantly less efficient than the all-electronics approach, because you have the efficiency of the motor times the efficiency of the alternator to deal with.  Of course in theory you don't care about all of this lost power because you are dealing with a magic free energy box.

We know that as the electrical load increases on the alternator, the electrical motor has to work harder to output the required mechanical power, and that will cause an increased draw on the battery.  Under a heavy load condition like this any kind of average back spike power from the motor will be very small compared to the electrical power consumption of the motor.

Somewhere in the narrative Sterling makes reference to a "modified standard electrical motor."  I can only guess that means "slightly modified" to extract any available back-EMF pulses.  Almost certainly this does not mean converting an off-the-shelf eight-horsepower motor into a pulse motor.  Pulse motors have no real mechanical output power.

Anyway, this is all an academic discussion om my part to suggest that when the device is outputting five kilowatts of electrical power into a load, the real electrical motor powering the alternator is not going to have "big back-EMF pulses to charge the second battery bank."  In the real world this will not be the case.  Most of the electrical power provided to the motor will become mechanical power, that's what motors do.

Anyway, coming back to reality I can see that there is no interest in this device on all three forums.  That's probably because poor Sterling Allen took a huge credibility hit by flying all the way to South Africa on other people's money and then barely doing anything to attempt to make a serious first go round at validating the device.  I feel sorry for him in a way, it got painful.  At the same time, he has been at this game for 10 years now.  It's like Sterling is a mirror image of the pitchmen that approach him, they have a symbiotic relationship.

His performance was ghastly and it's unfortunate because it looks like he is a decent man.

MileHigh

QuoteHis performance was ghastly and it's unfortunate because it looks like he is a decent man.

MileHigh

MH, your statement assumes Sterling Allan has no ulterior motives, no personal agenda. But I'm not inclined to agree with the 'decent man' part because I feel he must have his own agenda, as surely nobody can be consistently this stupid!

I think Ex hit the nail on the head with his post earlier in the thread.

Quote from: exnihiloest on 2012.02.09, 08:23:59
I thought that SA was a honest but gullible guy that fell in all traps from con men as Milo or others. Now I see that he doesn't retain at all the lessons of the past. I can't believe he is so stupid, therefore I now guess that his attitude is in part dictated by the business, more or less consciously.
The less sharp his intellectual requirement, the more numerous the subjects he can promote, the more the readers whom he can attract.
He is unskilled in science and technology and has not even the sharp diligence of good journalists in investigations. Although he is likely not fundamentally dishonest, he cultivates his natural negligence, incompetence and partiality in choosing and presenting the subjects, and the operational result is the same as if he was dishonest.

In essence, Sterling can only maintain the semblance of an innocent man with pure motives by outwardly pretending to be so naive and gullible.

Quotethere is very little to be gained by having beta test sites for this product

This implies a group reality of trust. [Oh look there are others that have seen and are part of this real thing and we can trust them].

QuoteAt the same time, he has been at this game for 10 years now.  It's like Sterling is a mirror image of the pitchmen that approach him, they have a symbiotic relationship.

Or [Cahoots].


Get a rope...

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2012.02.28, 14:32:30

In essence, Sterling can only maintain the semblance of an innocent man with pure motives by outwardly pretending to be so naive and gullible.

I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.  It is evident he has not made much money on any of this.  He could not even spring for his own airfare to South Africa.

All:

I think that Sterling certainly is not pure in the sense that whenever he thinks he is onto the next big thing, he tries to represent the individual or company in the USA etc.  So he compromises his objectivity.  At the same time, I don't really sense that he would really be able to add value, and it's always a pipe dream anyways.  In that sense he is spinning his wheels and his ulterior motives amount to nothing.

If you say, "Sterling Allen's company is the Western US representative for Tachyon-Dynamics, a high technology company that manufactures all-magnet motors that require no power input," how many doors to new sales do you think that's going to open up?

Warren Buffet invests in companies that do things like manufacture bed linen.  There is a lot of wisdom in that.

MileHigh

Quote from: eatenbyagrue on 2012.02.28, 20:01:35
I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.  It is evident he has not made much money on any of this.  He could not even spring for his own airfare to South Africa.

Naive and gullible is one thing, but I doubt even Sterling is daft enough to cough-up for his own airfare, especially when he knows others will happily pay it for him! And besides, who knows what he has tucked away in his Swiss bank account!

Makes you wonder who the naive and gullible really are, doesn't it?  :-\

Lawrence,

You answered my question across the great divide:

QuoteThe tests that I would like to do if I visit Sterling Allan in Utah when he has his 5KW home generator

1.  Capture the waveforms at the various appropriate connections.  This experiment will tell us when and where the lead-out energy enters the system.

2.  A calorimeter type test.  The simplest is to boil away water.  We can easily determine the exact amount of water that turned to steam.  That will require considerable energy - much more than could be supplied by the four 12V batteries.

3. Repeat the home appliances test.  This will demonstrate that the average household can use such a device.  I shall bring a potential licensee with me.  He is more interested in selling it than the technical details.

4. Try to feed the energy back to the grid and see whether a faster payback is possible.  This will be a strong selling point.

5. See if the unit can be placed on an electric car to recharge the car batteries.  This will be of great interest to the Group who claimed to have developed such technology.  They have a demonstration car that I shall drive when I go back to Hong Kong.

I have confidence that all the above will provide positive results.  The potential licensee is already doing some basic homework - getting component price quotes, identifying factory space, talking to their investors etc.

You need to be real here, and many of your points are a complete flight of fancy that are not realizable.

What you need is a multimeter, preferably a true-RMS multimeter, and a clamp-on ammeter.  An oscilloscope is optional.

You also need one or two oven heating elements and the wires and connections to connect it to the device.  If the device comes with European 220-VAC sockets, then go get some European 220-VAC plugs.  The end of the oven elements terminate in standard tab connections.  You just need the standard insulated oven wire that terminates in the mating connectors.  The connectors are called "fast-on" connectors.  All of this stuff would be available at any appliance repair store or service center.

You will also need some building bricks or concrete cinder blocks to support the hot oven elements.  If you do the test indoors you will need a fan to blow the hot air outside.

Here is the eBay search for "broil element:"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=broil+element&_sacat=See-All-Categories

You can see that you can get elements for about $20.  You need an element that works with 220 VAC which will be no problem.  The power rating for a broil element (or a regular lower oven element) is usually between 1.5 and 2 kilowatts.  So, let's suppose that you get two 2-kilowatt broil elements.

The test:  Wire up two broil elements to the Green Power SA unit.  Turn the unit on and monitor the voltage with your multimeter and the current with your clamp-on ammeter.  Calculate the power dissipation and verify that is is somewhere between 4 and 5 kilowatts.

Then you just sit and watch.  Watch the red glow from the oven broil elements and feel the infrared heat on your clothes and your skin.  Roast some marshmallows if you want to.   Let the system run for at least 10 times the energy storage capacity of the batteries in the device.  Preferably much longer because it's supposed to be a magic free energy box!  Let it run for days non-stop.

That is the REAL TEST Lawrence.  Forget about everything else you said, you are fantasizing.  Get REAL.

If you can't do this simple setup then get someone that can help you do it.  Be honest with yourself about your electrical skills.  I don't want you burning yourself or electrocuting yourself.  I am pretty sure that Sterling would not be capable of doing it.

Repeat:  Test the device by hooking it up to some big dumb electric oven elements and wait.  That's all there is to the test.

With two weeks worth of preparation and working with Sterling, getting pictures of the device, etc., you should be able to go visit Sterling with all of the parts ready for connection and within one hour you could be running the test.

There is also a Plan B which was mentioned before:  Buy four European 220 VAC hair blow dryers, the models that are rated at 1200 Watts.  Hook four of those up to the device and make your power measurements, etc.  That will be perfectly good also, with less chance of getting shocked or burned.  The trade-off is that it will be noisy.

MileHigh

Quote from: eatenbyagrue on 2012.02.28, 20:01:35
I actually think he really is that naive and gullible.
...

I don't think so. If it was naive and gullible at the beginning, I'm sure he is now aware of his case, but he volontary keeps his apparent naiveness. This allows him to make much more buzz on his site, because he can put any fairytale or scam, attracting more people, while keeping his status of "good guy" sincerely searching for the holy graal.
He keeps almost everything on his site without mentionning those having been dismissed. This is a symptom that the truth is of no interest for him, that he is motivated by an ideology with which he is expecting to make enough money to live.

QuoteI have confidence that all the above will provide positive results.

It seems that Laurence has already made his mind up that the Green Power device is genuine and works as stated. Personally I think us sceptics are much better placed to evaluate these things than the people who are prepared to believe it works on face-value.

Why would anyone need such a complex testing procedure, when all that needs to be done is hook up a suitable load and see if the power is maintained over a period that would rule out the batteries as the sole energy source?

Sure if it works it would be nice to do further analysis to find out exactly what is occuring, but first let's just see if it 'does what it says on the tin'!

I see Sterling has now restored the old comments on this article... well actually only some of them.  ???  I see that many of the negative comments have not made it back, I assume so that the responses appear to be a little more balanced - of course appearances can be deceptive!

I wonder if this is the start of the delaying tactics MH has predicted:

Quote"We have started our own internal alpha testing as such, to get the certification process going. So we will be going for some destructive testing processes as well before we actually go into beta. This process will take some time, so we have delayed the project slightly, as we feel that some proper data might help our cause first."

I know... ever the pessimist!  :)

Lets play ping-pong...
Wasnt the staement made that he was not allowed in the factory or see the device?
Then How does he do alpha testing? Simulations with air? Juggle car batteries?

Through the [Shell game] tactics did I miss something?

The scum buckets!  That was a punk band in the 70s.   ;D

Spot on Farrah,  O0 If it weren't for the skeptics, with all the claims, almost everything would be OU,
but there would be no gain at the end of the day to show for it.  ;D I can only imagine the circus
there would be if the skeptics held our tongue's. The amount of unsubstanciated claims is incredible.
And they way they are defended by anyone without good reason and with such venom indicates to
me that most people know subconciously there are very few claims even close to unity but want to
hold onto belief because they have invested so much time, money and effort into following
and replicating what they have been duped to believe is Over Unity.

I would suggest that without the over unity claims these Free Energy sites would see very little traffic and
not many people would be inclined to build or learn anything. Unless that way inclined already.
Most conversations would be about solar, wind and water power, true free energy. And new ways to use them.

Believe it or not.  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Q3orQhEcA

Cheers

Well Green Power SA has dropped to number two on Sterling's Top 5 Free Energy Technologies:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Top_5_Exotic_Free_Energy_Technologies

It was exciting while they were on top of the world.

What ever happened to James Kwok and compressed air power and Ismael Aviso's self-charging electric car running on cell phone tower power?

His top 5 has no real bearing on the science or credibility does it?  Seems rather to be based on nothing more than what Sterling deems is flavour of the month! C.C

I've given up with the guy... he's a total waste of space.

Quote from: Farmhand on 2012.03.02, 23:58:26
...If it weren't for the skeptics, with all the claims, almost everything would be OU,
but there would be no gain at the end of the day to show for it.  ;D I can only imagine the circus
there would be if the skeptics held our tongue's. The amount of unsubstanciated claims is incredible.
And they way they are defended by anyone without good reason and with such venom indicates to
me that most people know subconciously there are very few claims even close to unity but want to
hold onto belief because they have invested so much time, money and effort into following
and replicating what they have been duped to believe is Over Unity.

I would suggest that without the over unity claims these Free Energy sites would see very little traffic and
not many people would be inclined to build or learn anything. Unless that way inclined already.
Most conversations would be about solar, wind and water power, true free energy. And new ways to use them.
...

Relevant analysis!  O0
The OU claims make the skeptics to deal with foolish ideas, so they learn and study to analyse the claims (in any case, this is instructive), and even though until now these ideas were shown stupid, perhaps some day there will be a new one emerging from the brain storming of the skeptics, spurred by the believers.

This reminds me a fable from Jean de la Fontaine, dating from the 17th century, "the coach and the fly". In the story a carriage pulled by horses had to climb a steep hill. A fly who thought that she was indispensable for this goal, stung the horses who finally succeeded in passing the hill. The fly, of course, ascribed it to her skill and wanted to be paid! So the fabulist concluded:
"Some busybodies love to poke
A finger into every pie.
They interfere with other folk,
And help as little as this fly.
In fact, they hinder more than they assist,
So drive them away - they'll not be missed!"

But who knows, without the fly, if the horses would have climbed the hill?

Relevant story.

Whether the fly provided assistance or not, the only proper payment for a bite from a fly is the impact of a fly-swatter.

 

Woops!   C.C

http://pesn.com/2012/03/28/9602066_S_Africa_Company_Discovers_Problems_in_Alpha_Testing_their_Fuel_Free_Generator/

Oh, Sterling, you really are a plonker!

That the South African group is very
straightforward and up-front with the
nature of the difficulties is encouraging.

Candidness and honesty are signs of
integrity.

If the problems are overcharging of the
batteries and frequency variation in the
AC output - those are relatively easy to
resolve and overcome.

If the principles are sound then it should
be possible to construct the system without
any rotary components.

I predicted back on page two of this thread that the battery degradation would be an issue.
In all reality there should be three banks of batteries in such a system, one bank powering the device
one being charged by the recovered energy from the system, and one bank charged and resting.

I think batteries need to be rested after they are charged before they are drained.
With only two banks that is not really possible. They should have already known that.

I don't think overcharging is the problem I think most likely it is over discharging and no resting of
the charged bank of batteries. At least three banks are needed. With three banks I think it would
be also obvious there is no extra energy taken into the system. However it should show some very
big efficiency improvement over regular battery use for domestic power. The main problem with this
I can see is the amount of batteries it would need as compared to a solar or wind system which only
need two banks of batteries to have a resting bank.

Going from one bank to two is problem enough having 1/3 more banks is that much more of a problem.

The way I see it these battery swapping systems are more for extended battery use in an emergency situation.
I wouldn't be comfortable using them constantly.

The frequency variation could probably caused by the batteries being drained down to a low voltage couldn't it ?
Then when the batteries are swapped the charged batteries can spin the drive motor faster, or something like that.


Going on to a similar thing from the same place, Johans battery self charger, he has shown a video of it spinning the
shaft of a motor or two then when the load is removed the battery voltage rises. WOW my battery does that too
even without a circuit attached.

I don't understand what his plan is. Does he plan to use the battery down to 12.2 volts with a decent load then
use the hex controller to recharge it, I doubt it, he should at least show the thing can do that now.
If it can't it is all hot air. He has yet to show the battery out of it's fluffy zone in my opinion.

I've done some experiments with a similar circuit and batteries, people would be surprised how a battery with a
standing voltage of over 13 volts can be slightly loaded to read 12.8 volts then coaxed back into the fluffy zone above 13 volts.

I challenge him to drain the battery to 12.2 volts standing, shown with no load attached then connect the battery to the hex controller
and show it raising the battery voltage. I doubt we will ever see that. If it can't do that what can it do ?

..

Farrah:

Sterling is hapless.  He is almost in a fantasy land.

Like this, "Vision Statement for PES Network, Phase II."

Phase II???  He is in phase "j" and will always seemingly be in phase "j"  (or "i")

He drives a fantasy 1958 Bulgemobile powered by a self-recharging Aether Battery Pile.   ;D

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4639091-Archive-1958-Bulgemobile-Catalog-%28Rare-Find...%29 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4639091-Archive-1958-Bulgemobile-Catalog-%28Rare-Find...%29)

MileHigh

Farmhand,

You make excellent points.

Deep discharging is far more damaging to a battery
that isn't designed for it than slight to moderate
overcharging.

Using the measured voltage of the lead acid battery
as an indicator of "charging" or "discharging" is very,
very unreliable.  Old batteries which are partially sulfated
with "hard" sulfation are particularly difficult to gauge.
Their voltages at any time may be considerably higher
than "normal."  The only way to determine their state
of charge or health is by hydrometer or load testing.

It would be most interesting to be privy to all of the
operational parameters of the system.  Knowing instant
by instant what critical voltages and currents are would
be very revealing.

Quote from: MileHigh regarding Sterling
Phase II???  He is in phase "j" and will always seemingly be in phase "j"  (or "i")

He drives a fantasy 1958 Bulgemobile powered by a self-recharging Aether Battery Pile.    ;D

That is too good!

If nothing else, your sense of humor is top drawer! 8)

Dumped:

Do you have dreams of being a sailor on the battleship Potemkin?   :)

I stuck around St. Petersburg, when I saw it was a time for a change...

MileHigh

I would have thought that it would be quite easy to avoid over-charging of batteries - our cars seem to do this very well with just a few components on the alternator.

Personally I think it is the rate of charge and discharge that is likely to be the damaging effect. Even leisure (deep cycle) batteries will struggle to cope with constant high current charge/discharge rates. I' of a mind that over-heating and warping electrodes will be an issue. Perhaps they should fork out on some better batteries to experiment with, for example the Optima range that have a rugged circular cell arrangement. 

However, the sceptic in me is saying that this is all just tactics to shroud the fact that the device never really worked in the first place.

Quote from: FarrahDay
...

However, the sceptic in me is saying that this is all just tactics to
shroud the fact that the device never really worked in the first place.

I too suspect that ultimately, that will be
the finale of this story.

Quote from: MileHigh
Do you have dreams of being a sailor on the battleship Potemkin?    :)

Aye, that would have been a seaworthy
experience!

But, alas, my time on the "haze grey and
underway" was with the Refrigerated
Auxiliary Fleet and one small "Man 'O War"
(a Tin Can) as part of the "Tonkin Gulf Canoe
Club."

The photo is from a small photography
studio in Okinawa in the early '60s -
as an Active Duty Reservist.