MIT announced this week a method for reducing beta amyloid production in the brain by restoring the brain's gamma waves which stimulated microglia to do its job in "cleaning" the brain.
I'm looking to start human trials on my Dad immediately. He's losing the ability to walk right now so I want to setup some sort of lamp that he can spend an hour a day in front of .
Any guidance or recommendations appreciated. At this stage I have no idea of what sort of brightness, hue etc. I'm thinking of modifying an existing torch or lamp.
As this is a disease that affects most families I thought it may help others here too.
http://news.mit.edu/2016/visual-stimulation-treatment-alzheimer-1207
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_p4QWkE2Ls
Edit: Excellent podcast & interview with the researchers. http://www.radiolab.org/story/bringing-gamma-back/
I found some ideas here. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/274209/how-to-set-up-40-hz-flashing-led-lights-to-light-a-room
Dear Jim.
I'm so sorry to read your post, my wife and I are watching the steady decline of her father to this dastardly affliction.
I'm pretty sure there's some members here that can help.
Our thoughts will be with you.
Kind regards, Graham.
This should be quite easy to set up.
I already have a unit that I bought almost 20 years ago, the David. It is a programmable device and includes both visual and auditory stimulation.
Why not build the device in this board but you can adapt it to drive leds rather than electrodes, or you could do both!
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.12.11, 00:40:14
Dear Jim.
I'm so sorry to read your post, my wife and I are watching the steady decline of her father to this dastardly affliction.
I'm pretty sure there's some members here that can help.
Our thoughts will be with you.
Kind regards, Graham.
Thanks Grum, Yeah it affects us all. It's a shitty thing. My wife's mum died a few years back from it. At this stage I'm thinking a 555 timer circuit just working out all the values now. I want it to be fixed at 40hz so no pots. All the best for your Father In Law.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2016.12.11, 01:02:49
This should be quite easy to set up.
I already have a unit that I bought almost 20 years ago, the David. It is a programmable device and includes both visual and auditory stimulation.
Why not build the device in this board but you can adapt it to drive leds rather than electrodes, or you could do both!
Thanks .99 just been search your reference got doughnuts. Any links?
I'm using this calc http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/555-astable-calculator
C= 10uf 16v electorlytic
R1 = 6.8 carbon
r2 = 1.8k carbon
ne555
based on the calc it gives me a freq of 40hz. but my build does not work yet
`
Ok working now. Not sure if it's flashing or just steady on. C.C
Jim
My thoughts also go out to you and your family,
I am not far from MIT ,will see if there is more direct support available for informal testing/research.
seeing as it is Sunday, I will do this tomorrow !
Sorry to hear Jim.
To see if your circuit is working, connect a small speaker, though won't tell you the frequency. What about the app that Mark, Slider, posted, with that you will get an accurate frequency and duty, it's free, I have put it on my tablet, will need to drive a transistor for the power of your lamps etc.
Regards
Mike 8)
Dear Jim.
I'm so glad you found this interesting research. My father in law wears glasses, I'm thinking of using those strip LED's with the self adhesive back so that the therapy could be almost continuous during waking hours. A small package containing the flashing circuit and batteries worn in a pocket.
I also started wondering if the discontinued use of the old incandescent light bulbs has had a bearing on the marked increase? After all they flickered at the resident frequency 50/60 HZ.
Kind regards, Graham.
Interesting article, so i slapped something together quickly.
Its the above mentioned (linked) 555 timer setup directly driving a MOSFET, all from a 12V battery.
224nF cap and 2x 100K potmeters, adjusted for a 40Hz 50% duty cycle square wave signal.
The leds are 3W 3V leds and there are 4 in series (100ma)
The 40Hz flickering is very annoying, so i don't think someone would like to be in such a room for more then say half an hour.
Anyway, here is a short video so you can see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQoI6kBFM8&feature=youtu.be
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.11, 16:34:01
Interesting article, so i slapped something together quickly.
Its the above mentioned (linked) 555 timer setup directly driving a MOSFET, all from a 12V battery.
224nF cap and 2x 100K potmeters, adjusted for a 40Hz 50% duty cycle square wave signal.
The leds are 3W 3V leds and there are 4 in series (100ma)
The 40Hz flickering is very annoying, so i don't think someone would like to be in such a room for more then say half an hour.
Anyway, here is a short video so you can see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQoI6kBFM8&feature=youtu.be
Itsu
Dear Itsu.
Well done !! O0
I am quite surprised to see such flicker as it's only 10 Hz less than our mains frequency.
As you suggest, very annoying !!
Kind regards, Graham.
Dear JimBoot,
There is something else you could try that is easy, cheap, has no side effects and they say works on Alzheimer's to restore people to normal. It is 'Virgin Coconut Oil'. The required daily dose is said to be 2 tablespoons. It is supposed to take a few weeks of it to start showing improvement but can have almost full recovery in just a few months. One of the main chemicals in coconut oil is the exact chemical needed in the brain to stop Alzheimer's. It doesn't hurt to have a go at this along with this 40HZ therapy. Only down side is they must keep taking it the rest of their lives or will revert back to the Alzheimer's in a few months after quitting. It doesn't hurt that coconut oil is very healthy for the body in any case, we can all use it and I take it on a regular basis.
Regards Room
P.S. It can be added to their food without them even knowing it, if it is a problem for them to take it, and it does taste good.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.12.11, 17:32:57
Dear Itsu.
Well done !! O0
I am quite surprised to see such flicker as it's only 10 Hz less than our mains frequency.
As you suggest, very annoying !!
Kind regards, Graham.
Thanks Graham,
The 50Hz mains is AC, so it changes 100 times a second, while i used 40Hz DC.
But still, i too was amazed by the flickering at 40Hz.
Itsu
Wow that was Great Itsu thank you. I'm surprised by the flickering. In the MIT podcast they said it was barely noticeable. I'll go back and have another listen. I did not think something flashing 40 times a second would be that pronounced. My circuit is still not right. I'll get back to it tonight.
Room - Mums had him on the coconut oil for over a year. Thanks.
Mark - thanks I'll check out the app.
Chet awesome thanks I'll PM you.
Another great help is to give some PQQ and CoQ10. The PQQ is worth researching as it's known to improve mental functions. Watch out for big pharma disinformation. It's a natural supplement that's reduced by the processing of our foods and big pharma can't licence it.
The CO enzyme Q10 will clean out your body from many radicals. Together these work like waters from the fountain of youth. Anyone over 45 would likely benefit from the Q10. I've used it at 100mG for a few months and it has made a big difference to many older age d ailments. Those muscular aches were the first to go and it appears to be regenerating my gums which is impossible according to the professionals. No licence means suppression and we all know this one.
Thanks Azaxx I will check it out.
Just listened to the podcast again. They used a blue light with optic fibre but they did not disclose the colour of the LEDs. I'm going to assume blue. They also said the flicker was almost imperceptible. The author could just see it out of the corner of her eye. So that is a bit of a mystery unless 40hz AC???
I tried a 555 timer running on a 15V regulated supply at 40Hz (50% duty) with 3W LED's. A cap of between 3,300uF and 10,000uF across the LED's progressively reduces the flicker.
Ok using an arduino nano to do the job. My calculation is 12.5ms on 12.5ms off for 40hz. Uploading video now.
Quote from: Hoppy on 2016.12.12, 10:53:51
I tried a 555 timer running on a 15V regulated supply at 40Hz (50% duty) with 3W LED's. A cap of between 3,300uF and 10,000uF across the LED's progressively reduces the flicker.
Right, that will smooth out the pulses, but i understand that we NEED the flickering as that is what stimulates the brain.
Only what frequency, the mentioned 40Hz (heavy flickering) or the 80Hz (subtle flickering).
itsu
Hi Itsu,
Yes, the caps do smooth out the pulses to an extent but my LED's still flicker. If the correct frequency is in fact 40Hz, then this may be how they achieved a subtle flickering.
40Hz AC would mean 80 flashes a second, but not with leds as they block one half.
I cranked up the frequency to 80Hz (DC) to see how that behaves, and indeed i think i see in the corner of my eye some flickering, but not when looking to the leds.
The video does show some flickering, so it could be that they used 40Hz AC with antiparallel leds or so.
The brain gamma waves seems to be a sinus
video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Hu55yD3CU
Itsu
Quote from: Hoppy on 2016.12.12, 12:40:07
Hi Itsu,
Yes, the caps do smooth out the pulses to an extent but my LED's still flicker. If the correct frequency is in fact 40Hz, then this may be how they achieved a subtle flickering.
Ok Hoppy,
so that could also be a possibility :o
More info is needed i guess.
Itsu
I see your point ref the 80Hz. O0
I tested with 2 antiparallel blue leds running directly from my FG at 40Hz AC.
It seems to me that the flickering is less this way, but it could be the difference in used leds.
Anyway, here a short video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBg-dsae5Bw
Itsu
One of the other grad students in my department at UCSC was studying flicker. He claimed that with the right frequency and waveform he could make anyone do anything. I participated in some of the studies and I was able to detect flickering stimuli at up to 60 Hz. Oddly enough, the "critical flicker fusion frequency" actually goes _up_ when the subject is fatigued or on certain recreational drugs. (At the time I probably fit into both those categories... :D ) If you have two flickering sources Red and Green, and flicker them at the right frequencies, you will see Yellow. There are many interesting perceptual things that you can do with flicker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold
As far as effective brain stimulation goes, yes, you probably want a non-smoothed signal to the LEDs (no capacitors across the output). The Arduino Nano seems like a good way to get relatively precise timing. On the other hand, the brain and the visual system in particular are definitely "analog" (although the visual system uses a type of "pulse coding") and it may make sense to program the Arduino to produce a slightly varying frequency instead of a rock-steady 40Hz.
To tell if your LEDs are flickering without instruments you may be able to use "persistence of vision"; that is, move your eyeballs (or conversely the LEDs) rapidly from side to side. A flickering LED should produce a "trail" of dots, whereas a steady LED will just make a constant streak. I have an electric clock that seems rock-steady when viewed directly on, but if I sweep my eyeballs I can easily see the trail of dots indicating a flicker at 60Hz. (USA mains frequency).
If you can see a mains-powered incandescent bulb flickering much, there is probably something wrong somewhere, as the filament of an incandescent bulb is its own "smoother" and really doesn't have time to cool down between cycles when it is getting an AC current at mains frequency.
:o
Hi Itsu.
How about trying a 40 Hz triangular wave form direct on the LED's?
Just a thought.
Cheers Graham.
Of course I do not know any details about the study concerning the 40 Hz light pulses.
But if I consider that the aim is to stimulate the brain, I would say that one wants 40 rather short light pulses per second. The onset of the light would do the stimulation and not the duration of the light.
So, the duty cycle of the 40 Hz pulses only needs to be long enough to bring the LEDs to full brightness in the shortest possible time and then the LEDs could be off, also as quickly as possible.
And the light pulses should be annoying, otherwise there would be no stimulation.
Just my ideas.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.12.12, 16:11:28
Hi Itsu.
How about trying a 40 Hz triangular wave form direct on the LED's?
Just a thought.
Cheers Graham.
Graham,
using a triangular, square or sinusiodal AC waveform does not change the flickering much, it does affect the brightness as each waveform has its own rms value.
Itsu
Ok here it is. I think the frequency is right 12.5ms on / off.
https://youtu.be/ZUWMZ44yVk4
Jim,
the audio is a little low, but its looking good.
The flickering seems similar as mine at 40Hz (DC) which is indeed 12.5ms on, 12.5ms off (50% duty cycle).
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.12, 22:02:47
Jim,
the audio is a little low, but its looking good.
The flickering seems similar as mine at 40Hz (DC) which is indeed 12.5ms on, 12.5ms off (50% duty cycle).
Itsu
Thanks Itsu, back to the shop today to get more LEDs . First time I've played with arduino. I have read that trying to drive multiple leds on one microcontroler could damage it. Is that correct. I was just going to hook them up in parallel and use a 9v batt to power it.
Hopefully this might help, with you going along the Arduino route.
It's my 555-A-Like circuit, developed for something else but maybe it could be useful for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fh3G0Nk8xY
It features a 128x64 OLED screen (cheap and effective at approx $3.50) and 2 pots for Frequency and Duty Cycle.
It doesn't need the screen and will run without it.
1% to 95% duty, but at the moment only 1Hz to 12Hz because of the screen routine. I'm going to speed the thing up for 40Hz. Anyway, will add the code link to the vid description and the Fritzing breadboard circuit is below,
The thing being, that small adjustments in duty cycle might be part of this slight flicker situation too. A 60% duty cycle would flicker less than 50%, but in the description of how their system works Picower could still say it was on for half the time, off for half the time. If the optimal was 54%, that could easily be set too. Once all was known, set up and working, the pots could be removed and either resistors put in place or the code redone.
An Arduino's outputs can deliver 40mA, more than capable of driving a transistor...which means overcurrent will be no issue. Run anything via the transistor instead. 1K resistor from the output pin to the Base, Emitter to ground, Collector out to the load.
My wife's Dad passed away last November due to this and her mom is showing signs of a similar path. All of us might end up with the damn condition, so this research can be self centered for the future as well as helping those who have it now.
The glasses idea was marvellous ! which brings thoughts of a sleep cap for overnights.
Wasn't there something about flickering ping pong balls on the eyes at nights recently ?
Best wishes to you, your father and family Jim :)
just trying to work out how to best attach the board to the hat now. I've put a pot in so I can adjust brightness.
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2016.12.13, 05:22:52
Hopefully this might help, with you going along the Arduino route.
It's my 555-A-Like circuit, developed for something else but maybe it could be useful for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fh3G0Nk8xY
It features a 128x64 OLED screen (cheap and effective at approx $3.50) and 2 pots for Frequency and Duty Cycle.
It doesn't need the screen and will run without it.
1% to 95% duty, but at the moment only 1Hz to 12Hz because of the screen routine. I'm going to speed the thing up for 40Hz. Anyway, will add the code link to the vid description and the Fritzing breadboard circuit is below,
The thing being, that small adjustments in duty cycle might be part of this slight flicker situation too. A 60% duty cycle would flicker less than 50%, but in the description of how their system works Picower could still say it was on for half the time, off for half the time. If the optimal was 54%, that could easily be set too. Once all was known, set up and working, the pots could be removed and either resistors put in place or the code redone.
An Arduino's outputs can deliver 40mA, more than capable of driving a transistor...which means overcurrent will be no issue. Run anything via the transistor instead. 1K resistor from the output pin to the Base, Emitter to ground, Collector out to the load.
My wife's Dad passed away last November due to this and her mom is showing signs of a similar path. All of us might end up with the damn condition, so this research can be self centered for the future as well as helping those who have it now.
The glasses idea was marvellous ! which brings thoughts of a sleep cap for overnights.
Wasn't there something about flickering ping pong balls on the eyes at nights recently ?
Best wishes to you, your father and family Jim :)
Thanks mate. Good video and some awesome ideas. Mum was delivered the news today that he has to go into a nursing home. I'm now thinking of a battery operated lamp for his room. Would the addition of the transistor be enough to run some of those 50 led lamps. In the podcast the professor ends with her xmas tree lights are tuned to 40hz. I'd like every light in his room tuned to it. All the best for your wife's mum. I'm sitting here testing the cap and it's bloody annoying.
The podcast does say white light when discussing the LEDs. I listened again today.
Thanks Wallace.
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2016.12.12, 14:23:30
One of the other grad students in my department at UCSC was studying flicker. He claimed that with the right frequency and waveform he could make anyone do anything. I participated in some of the studies and I was able to detect flickering stimuli at up to 60 Hz. Oddly enough, the "critical flicker fusion frequency" actually goes _up_ when the subject is fatigued or on certain recreational drugs. (At the time I probably fit into both those categories... :D ) If you have two flickering sources Red and Green, and flicker them at the right frequencies, you will see Yellow. There are many interesting perceptual things that you can do with flicker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold
As far as effective brain stimulation goes, yes, you probably want a non-smoothed signal to the LEDs (no capacitors across the output). The Arduino Nano seems like a good way to get relatively precise timing. On the other hand, the brain and the visual system in particular are definitely "analog" (although the visual system uses a type of "pulse coding") and it may make sense to program the Arduino to produce a slightly varying frequency instead of a rock-steady 40Hz.
To tell if your LEDs are flickering without instruments you may be able to use "persistence of vision"; that is, move your eyeballs (or conversely the LEDs) rapidly from side to side. A flickering LED should produce a "trail" of dots, whereas a steady LED will just make a constant streak. I have an electric clock that seems rock-steady when viewed directly on, but if I sweep my eyeballs I can easily see the trail of dots indicating a flicker at 60Hz. (USA mains frequency).
If you can see a mains-powered incandescent bulb flickering much, there is probably something wrong somewhere, as the filament of an incandescent bulb is its own "smoother" and really doesn't have time to cool down between cycles when it is getting an AC current at mains frequency.
:o
Thanks for the info and link TK.
indeed when moving my eyeballs rapidly from side to side over the 80Hz leds, i see only a constant streak, no dots, so 80Hz is to much for my eyes to persive any flickering.
So 40Hz it is, either AC (antiparallel leds) or DC.
Itsu
Jim,
would an hour a day (like 4x 15 minutes or 2x half an hour spread over the day) not be enough?
I mean who want to stay in a room with this constant flickering going on.
A sturdy transistor or MOSFET would be able to drive a string of leds (series and parallel), not sure what you mean by " those 50 led lamps", they probably
have their own circuit to transform the 220 or 120V AC to whatever they use to drive those leds.
Itsu
Quote from: JimBoot on 2016.12.12, 21:17:42
Ok here it is. I think the frequency is right 12.5ms on / off.
https://youtu.be/ZUWMZ44yVk4
May be it is only the video, but your LED hardly switches off. The flicker is not pronounced.
Try 5 ms on and 20 ms off. Or even 2 ms on and 23 ms off.
Greetings, Conrad
JimBoot, i strongly encourage you to contact that doctor personally and discuss it with her.
I fly over research and i dont think is so simple. Brain is not computer, we still dont fully understand how it work. I think that frequency is not enough to make any difference, there must be some synchronization with brainwaves to get positive effect (if she done none that explain why just half of patients react in positive way).
Doctors like this should be interested in human test subjects, so if you will get in touch with her she should be interested in cooperation. Testing this on yourself or dad could be potential risk.
regards
Good point and good advice O0
Itsu
Marshallin
yes,,
been getting all the Ducks in a row for the Doctor visit
O0
Would bet your Dad would be thrilled about being part of such a study...something very real that his son wants to do for him, using learned skills. That's never a bad thing.
I mean, I presume you have discussed rapidly flashing lights in his eyes with him Gromit ? LOL
"Just sit here while I get the wires and lights and sticky tape and bandsaw and plasma cutter and hammer"
O0
Btw, have converted the code to use the Adafruit library for the OLED screen. It's still only stable to 14Hz ???
It would seem that the screen hardware is setting that limit.
So...perhaps the frequency could be displayed ON the LED's !
(not really, but the idea appeals)
Quote from: Marshallin on 2016.12.13, 14:01:04
JimBoot, i strongly encourage you to contact that doctor personally and discuss it with her.
I fly over research and i dont think is so simple. Brain is not computer, we still dont fully understand how it work. I think that frequency is not enough to make any difference, there must be some synchronization with brainwaves to get positive effect (if she done none that explain why just half of patients react in positive way).
Doctors like this should be interested in human test subjects, so if you will get in touch with her she should be interested in cooperation. Testing this on yourself or dad could be potential risk.
regards
Have you listened to the podcast? The professor would disagree with you. Her xmas tree lights are at 40hz. Thanks for your concern. I have tweeted to the institute and the professor.
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.13, 12:35:16
Jim,
would an hour a day (like 4x 15 minutes or 2x half an hour spread over the day) not be enough?
I mean who want to stay in a room with this constant flickering going on.
A sturdy transistor or MOSFET would be able to drive a string of leds (series and parallel), not sure what you mean by " those 50 led lamps", they probably
have their own circuit to transform the 220 or 120V AC to whatever they use to drive those leds.
Itsu
Sorry itsu, yeah that was a little vague sorry! Was trying to get an idea of the upper limit of the number of LEDs I'll have a tinker today.
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2016.12.13, 16:51:06
Would bet your Dad would be thrilled about being part of such a study...something very real that his son wants to do for him, using learned skills. That's never a bad thing.
I mean, I presume you have discussed rapidly flashing lights in his eyes with him Gromit ? LOL
"Just sit here while I get the wires and lights and sticky tape and bandsaw and plasma cutter and hammer"
O0
Btw, have converted the code to use the Adafruit library for the OLED screen. It's still only stable to 14Hz ???
It would seem that the screen hardware is setting that limit.
So...perhaps the frequency could be displayed ON the LED's !
(not really, but the idea appeals)
Dad thinks he's a fire truck. Well not quite but no, we won't be having that conversation. :) bit too late for that.
Quote from: JimBoot on 2016.12.13, 20:12:29
Have you listened to the podcast? The professor would disagree with you. Her xmas tree lights are at 40hz. Thanks for your concern. I have tweeted to the institute and the professor.
Jim,
what do you mean by podcast? I see a video in the link on your first post, is that what you mean? No mention there of a xmas tree though.
Itsu
Quote from: conradelektro on 2016.12.13, 12:37:21
May be it is only the video, but your LED hardly switches off. The flicker is not pronounced.
Try 5 ms on and 20 ms off. Or even 2 ms on and 23 ms off.
Greetings, Conrad
Hi Conrad, I've been looking at the the gamma brainwave patterns and as Tk pointed out they are certainly not in anyway a constant 40hz. Thanks for the suggestion.
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.13, 20:30:33
Jim,
what do you mean by podcast? I see a video in the link on your first post, is that what you mean? No mention there of a xmas tree though.
Itsu
Sorry itsu this is the podcast where the news was announced last week. http://www.radiolab.org/story/bringing-gamma-back/
Thanks Jim,
a kind of chaotic podcast, but indeed she was talking in the end about "OED lights", so pointing to these new Oled lights.
http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=35845
http://www.oled-lights.org/category/oled-lights/
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.13, 21:56:10
Thanks Jim,
a kind of chaotic podcast, but indeed she was talking in the end about "OED lights", so pointing to these new Oled lights.
http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=35845
http://www.oled-lights.org/category/oled-lights/
Itsu
Ahaaa I missed that. I don't think we are the target demographic for that podcast ;D
Just had a look at some oled panels on alibaba https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/oled-light-panel.html
ok using a pn1000 driving 24 leds. thanks
Jim
as mentioned, It will be necessary to see if the required repair sequence is stimulated by this light pulse therapy.
here is an example just to show how simple this home brew EEG [Electroencephalogram] could be [seeing brain activity]
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-EEG-and-ECG-Circuit/
very exciting possibilities here O0
I did some tests with LEDs at 40 Hz and discovered that even with a duty cycle of 50% the LEDs do not deliver peak brightness.
It takes longer than 12.5 ms to light up the LEDs on my PIC development board to their full brightness. They are even less bright at a duty cycle of 20% or 10%.
So, it takes "fast" LEDs to do a good flickering at 40 Hz. The ones on my development board are not "fast" enough.
By "fast" I mean that a LED reaches peak brightness in a short time (shorter than 12.5 ms).
Greetings, Conrad
P.S.: Peak brightness is of course influenced by the series resistor in front of the LED. On my PIC development board there are 470 Ohm series resistors (at 5 V). With 20 Hz and a duty cycle of 50% (25 ms) the LEDs seem to reach the peak brightness. 12.5 ms is too short and 25 ms is already long enough.
Quote from: Chet K on 2016.12.14, 10:13:58
Jim
as mentioned, It will be necessary to see if the required repair sequence is stimulated by this light pulse therapy.
here is an example just to show how simple this home brew EEG [Electroencephalogram] could be [seeing brain activity]
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-EEG-and-ECG-Circuit/
very exciting possibilities here O0
Nice info Chet,
but this seems to me an advanced project i think as it involves lots of (notch) filtering to get the 50 /60 Hz from the environment out of the way, but doable.
There are some apps available for monitoring your brain waves, see this link which mentiones a few:
https://www.diygenius.com/hacking-your-brain-waves/
Itsu
That plastic headband thing looks right for the job...neat, simple, nothing like a Frankenstein contraption. Will read more about those methods Itsu !
Seems to me, that what we are seeing is the combination of several previously 'fringe' technologies, now shaping up to be a real medical breakthrough because MIT have allowed their name to be associated.
Calls of scam and snake oil don't apply to that Uni !
Am also quite sure that what we could end up with, is a wearable device that features neural feedback. Wrist worn, like a watch, it would prevent losing the thing around the house. Probes could plug in via a 4 pole 3.5mm jack socket, same as seen on Raspberry Pi's.
It could log data with real-time uploads to a cloud service such as Thingspeak. Trained medical personnel could then monitor the brainwaves, as part of the human trials effectiveness.
An ESP8266 or ESP32 could take the readings and upload (ESP8266 are around $3 and offer WiFi, an 80MHz CPU and similar connectivity to Arduino's).
In fact....am working on a wearable that could be converted for this use at the moment.
I won't clog this thread up with such an aside, but will make a Bench post and shoot a demo vid. See what you guys think, if it could be a route. A future possible solution for home trials.
It was going to be an Indiegogo campaign idea, but could suit this purpose.
A repeat of my YouTube comment re: Jim's video...just in case it's better here than there:
That's a very cool build Jim ! For a timer, one way is to buy a DS1307 or similar battery backed clock module. They are only around $1 and give time functionality to the Arduino. You'd then set the time in software once, then leave it to run for however long the onboard CR2032 coin battery lasted...years perhaps. In such a way, you could set the times to start flashing and times to go off, but could turn the actual device on and off the same as you did here and not lose the time info.
I haven't read in detail through all the posts here but it seems you may be trying to re-invent the wheel so to speak as there are already a couple things that may do this better and more easily. There are many Mind machines or brain tuners out there like the Theta Technologies Voyager XL (I've had one of these for over 20 years). The Voyager has glasses with LED's built in and has preset programs that can achieve up to around 108 Hz but also can be custom programmed. It also uses binaural flickering of the LED's and sound output to earphones that will help synchronize the left and right brain hemispheres.
But possibly even better and cheaper is that people have made apps now for Android phones that will do essentially the same thing. Those apps are also fairly easy to modify. You can use them by placing the phone across your eyes or just get a cheap Google goggle type setup (I see Walmart has a nicer plastic model with foam to hold Android phones now for only $15) It produces the same effects as a Voyager and similar brain tuners. When using my Voyager XL which has red LED's I see all sorts of different colors (you keep your eyes closed when using it but the LED's show through your eyelids) depending on the program and frequencies used. Other people I've shown it to get a real 'Wow' out of it on the higher energy programs. Some of the programs are specifically made to stimulate the brain.
For a while the Theta tech Voyager XL was not available due to harassment from the mainstream medical - they don't like competition for their drugs from electronic devices but I see now they are available again and I think they are one of the best : http://www.thetavoyager.com/ but as I said you can do similar things if you have an Android phone and are able to modify the binaural brain apps that are readily available on Google play. I've got some of them and the pro versions. Let me know if you'd like them.
Just Google "Mind machines" to see many of these types of devices. One warning on using these - if a person has or is prone to epilepsy you should not use these as it can in some cases trigger the epilepsy.
Ok Mark has explained how I can add a timer to this as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96p5EQmsQUU
Quote from: conradelektro on 2016.12.14, 15:22:16
I did some tests with LEDs at 40 Hz and discovered that even with a duty cycle of 50% the LEDs do not deliver peak brightness.
It takes longer than 12.5 ms to light up the LEDs on my PIC development board to their full brightness. They are even less bright at a duty cycle of 20% or 10%.
So, it takes "fast" LEDs to do a good flickering at 40 Hz. The ones on my development board are not "fast" enough.
By "fast" I mean that a LED reaches peak brightness in a short time (shorter than 12.5 ms).
Greetings, Conrad
P.S.: Peak brightness is of course influenced by the series resistor in front of the LED. On my PIC development board there are 470 Ohm series resistors (at 5 V). With 20 Hz and a duty cycle of 50% (25 ms) the LEDs seem to reach the peak brightness. 12.5 ms is too short and 25 ms is already long enough.
Conrad,
thanks for looking into this, so we might need fast leds, but on the other hand, do we really need peak brightness as we only want the correct (40Hz) flickering.
Itsu
Quote from: e2matrix on 2016.12.14, 17:54:01
I haven't read in detail through all the posts here but it seems you may be trying to re-invent the wheel so to speak as there are already a couple things that may do this better and more easily. There are many Mind machines or brain tuners out there like the Theta Technologies Voyager XL (I've had one of these for over 20 years). The Voyager has glasses with LED's built in and has preset programs that can achieve up to around 108 Hz but also can be custom programmed. It also uses binaural flickering of the LED's and sound output to earphones that will help synchronize the left and right brain hemispheres.
But possibly even better and cheaper is that people have made apps now for Android phones that will do essentially the same thing. Those apps are also fairly easy to modify. You can use them by placing the phone across your eyes or just get a cheap Google goggle type setup (I see Walmart has a nicer plastic model with foam to hold Android phones now for only $15) It produces the same effects as a Voyager and similar brain tuners. When using my Voyager XL which has red LED's I see all sorts of different colors (you keep your eyes closed when using it but the LED's show through your eyelids) depending on the program and frequencies used. Other people I've shown it to get a real 'Wow' out of it on the higher energy programs. Some of the programs are specifically made to stimulate the brain.
For a while the Theta tech Voyager XL was not available due to harassment from the mainstream medical - they don't like competition for their drugs from electronic devices but I see now they are available again and I think they are one of the best : http://www.thetavoyager.com/ but as I said you can do similar things if you have an Android phone and are able to modify the binaural brain apps that are readily available on Google play. I've got some of them and the pro versions. Let me know if you'd like them.
E2matrix,
thanks for the info, any "mind machine" that can flicker its leds at 40Hz would be useable, as that is all we apparently need.
Not sure where these binaural brain apps fit in here as we do not need sound.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.14, 21:26:32
Conrad,
thanks for looking into this, so we might need fast leds, but on the other hand, do we really need peak brightness as we only want the correct (40Hz) flickering.
Itsu
If you look at Jimboot's latest video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96p5EQmsQUU you see the problem. We do not need peak brightness, but we would need a LED that really goes OFF (no light emitted) 40 times per second. In Jimboot's video one sees that the LEDs are never OFF, the brightness only varies. And I have observed the same with the LEDs on my PIC bread bord at 40 Hz (even with a duty cycle of only 10% and very clearly with duty cycle of 50%).
In order to call it "true flickering" the LED should come ON (emitting light) and go OFF (no light is emitted) 40 times per second. The available LEDs take longer than 12.5 ms to reach full brightness (which would not be a problem) but also take longer than 12.5 ms till they go completely OFF.
So, at 40 Hz the LEDs always emit light, just get brighter when they are ON and diminish a bit when they are OFF. Is this "true flickering"?
May be that does not matter and the alleged "Anti-Alzheimer-Effect" is still there? It might be academic to demand that the LED goes completely OFF?
In all types of lamps there is always this afterglow effect. May be gas discharge lamps (FLs, CFLs) are faster than 12.5 ms? But I doubt that.
May be switching on a LED very shortly (e.g. 3 ms) and only reaching minimal brightness would help. I will try that on Friday with a function generator and various series resistors in front of the LED. May be the light output of the LED has to be measured with a photo diode or photo transistor to see whether it goes really OFF.
If the LED is only allowed to emit very little light it has to be placed close to the eye or one uses the set up in darkness.
Greetings, Conrad
Sorry, accidental post.
I find that to be quite fascinating Conrad !
Here was me thinking that LED's were so fast to react that there would only be issues in the KHz range.
Do you know which brands are fast and whether they carry a cost premium ?
It would do the research a lot of good to find the fastest and slowest LED's, for comparison studies...at least to know if there is a good strong difference in effectiveness.
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.14, 21:28:43
E2matrix,
thanks for the info, any "mind machine" that can flicker its leds at 40Hz would be useable, as that is all we apparently need.
Not sure where these binaural brain apps fit in here as we do not need sound.
Itsu
Sound just enhances the effects of the brain entrainment to the frequency the eyes see. But it's not needed on these mind machines if you don't want to use earphones it will still work. The binaural greatly helps in getting the brain to entrain to a particular frequency. The LED's flickering in one eye are a slightly different frequency than for the other eye. The brain automatically wants to synchronize the two so it brings the right and left hemispheres of the brain together in a way that can have profound effects. I had not looked for the Voyager online for some years and see now that in my previous post the web site I gave was not actually for the original Theta technologies web site but just a site that sells them and also noted they now call them the "Mind's Eye" rather than the Voyager XL - perhaps because there is an electronic music keyboard called a Voyager XL.
Beside that I think Jimboot should seriously look at the Google play store - search "binaural beats" and you'll find a bunch of free apps and I already see one that can do Gamma and I think it's 40 Hz. I'm downloading it myself right now to check it out. I think about everyone has a smartphone nowadays don't they. I just picked up a nice Quad core processor 5.1" screeen Android smartphone (ZTE brand) new for $10 at a local grocery store. They are certainly more affordable than ever. I do think it would be an easy way to get started quickly. Those goggles I saw at Walmart can be had for about $4 online out of China and maybe eBay too.
Mindroid is the app you want for an Android phone. It's programmable to exactly 40 Hz and has lots of options. It divides the screen in half so when you lay the phone horizontally over your face you have two large round circles that flash over your eyes. You can pinch them to move them closer together or further apart to align to your eyes. I believe this will do everything you want without having to build anything. I'm attaching the latest version - it's newer than the one I have on my phone so I'll check it out too but it's an awesome program. Please delete this after downloading it as I think it's the pro version.
Ok, it's been awhile since I used this app - I just confirmed that in order to edit the frequency of a session you need to either create a 'New' session or you can download a session off their web site from within the app. The built in sessions can't be edited so just download an session like "Magic 11" and once it's downloaded (free and it's very fast to download) then you can edit that session to be straight 40 Hz if you want. Or touch 'Program' and then choose '+New' on the bottom left. (I'm still getting back up to speed on using this app since it's been a while - quickest way to make straight 40 Hz will be to just create a New session).
Mindroid has so many options it is really almost exactly like having one of the Theta technologies $349 Mind's Eye devices. I've got both and it works the same magic. I've had some really incredible experiences with the Voyager (Mind's Eye) and this Android app. You can choose the color of the flashing lights, choose binaural or regular, audio-visual or visual only (or audio only), duration and you can directly edit the frequency just by pulling a line on the frequency graph with your finger. You can even use external LED glasses with it if you want (like the ones they sell at Theta technologies ( http://thetatechnologies.com/ ). But you don't really need those and I'd suggest just getting the virtual 3D goggles like everyone is selling now at Walmart, eBay, china sites like dhgate.com, aliexpress.com etc.
After a little more checking on external glasses I'm not sure if the Theta tech ones would work - but the Mindroid app has info on where to get ones that will work with the app - they have both a sleep mask type and sunglasses type. But as I said they aren't especially needed - just lay the smartphone on your face or get the virtual goggles for cheap.
I guess I'm really on this as I know some people that can use this too. I just created a 60 minute session that is straight 40 Hz. It is actually a little difficult to draw the line on exactly 40 Hz with a finger so I used one of those screen pens. You can do it manually but you'd have to type 40.0 sixty times in the editor. I was going to upload my saved session here but after looking into where Mindroid stores it's session files it looks like you will need a rooted phone to put my saved session onto your phone so it may be easier to just make your own with a steady finger or screen pen on the 40 Hz line.
Quote from: e2matrix on 2016.12.15, 07:32:22
I guess I'm really on this as I know some people that can use this too. I just created a 60 minute session that is straight 40 Hz. It is actually a little difficult to draw the line on exactly 40 Hz with a finger so I used one of those screen pens. You can do it manually but you'd have to type 40.0 sixty times in the editor. I was going to upload my saved session here but after looking into where Mindroid stores it's session files it looks like you will need a rooted phone to put my saved session onto your phone so it may be easier to just make your own with a steady finger or screen pen on the 40 Hz line.
I downloaded Mindroid to my smartphone (Samsung Note 4, has a pen) and will play with it. Thank you for the information.
As for the LEDs: I will try to only light a LED very dimly (high series resistor), may be it goes ON and OFF faster. I have several types of LEDs and will experiment with some. High power LEDs are the worst concerning afterglow. May be the 3 mA LEDs are better for flickering.
Greetings, Conrad
Demonstration of short, bright LED pulses for strobes on the MHOP project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6amIEYDDFOM
These strobes require fast turn-on and turn-off so as not to produce blurred or streaky images and to make a good "stop motion" strobe effect. For extremely short bright pulses you need to provide more than the usual voltage to the LED. I used a monostable 555 timer circuit as a "pulse shortener" to trim the pulses.
I downloaded Mindroid to my smartphone (Samsung Note 4, has a pen) and could set it to 40 Hz. The sound seems to indicate that it really is 40 Hz. But I can only do it with two big red dots on the screen. Other colors are not possible with the free version of Mindroid.
It looks like the screen of my Smartphone is fast enough, I see some black as the big red dots are flickering on and off (see the attached photo of my smartphone running Mindroid, the free version, only red dots).
I have to download a development system for my Windows PC which allows to write programs for Android smart phones. The program should allow to set the duty cycle when displaying a dot or other shapes flickering at 40 Hz on the screen. And of course one wants to experiment with different colors.
But it will take some time to write the program for my smart phone. A few years ago I wrote a few silly programs for my old smart phone and the learning curve was steep.
Greetings, Conrad
I tried TinselKoala's idea of very short pulses:
The duty cycle was set to 0.1% at 40 Hz, which means that the pulses were 25µs long.
The function generator was set to 10 V square wave, offset 5 V. I did not need a series resistor in front of the LED.
I tried several LEDs (2 mA red and green and 20 mA blue and white) and none seemed to flicker at the above settings. May be one can not see it with the eyes. A measurement with a photo diode or photo transistor might show the flickering.
With a series resistor and a duty cycle of 30% to 50% the LEDs showed some flickering, but it looked like an intensity flicker and not ON/OFF.
I will go with the idea of a program for the Android smart phone.
A simple LED circuit is probably too crude. One should find out which LEDs and which set up were used in the original experiment.
Greetings, Conrad
The tone() function for Arduino can be used to set a square wave at specific frequency and 50 percent duty cycle easily. Lower limit on most Arduino AVR boards is 31 Hz. The pulse shortener circuit I posted above can then be used to make the individual pulses shorter and with higher voltage delivered to the LEDs.
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Reference/Tone
So you could put a potentiometer for controlling the frequency in the range, say, of 31 to 50 Hz, and the trimpot on the pulse shortener circuit will control the duty cycle to a short value.
Something like:
tone(LEDpin,(map(analogRead(potPin),0,1023,31,50)));
should do the trick.
If the pulse shortener circuit pulses are too short for this purpose, the capacitor values can be changed.
You might also consider using a traditional xenon flashlamp strobe. Although they do produce an annoying buzzing noise and involve high voltages ...
/********************************************************
LED flickerer by TK
Connect potentiometer (5 or 10k) between GND and +5V pins
with wiper to pin A0
Connect LED anode to pin 8, cathode to 1k resistor to GND.
To see flickering when set to midrange (about 40Hz) turn off
room lights and move fingers in front of LED.
For investigational use only, no medical claims made.
********************************************************/
int LEDpin, potPin;
void setup() {
LEDpin=8;
pinMode(LEDpin, OUTPUT);
potPin=A0;
pinMode(potPin, INPUT);
}
void loop() {
tone(LEDpin,(map(analogRead(potPin),0,1023,31,50)));
}
This is turning out to be quite a challenging project.
In the Old Days we would have used an incandescent
bulb for the light source and some sort of small motor
driven shutter to interrupt the light to produce flicker.
Where colored light was needed a colored filter would
be used.
A more modern type of shutter might be fashioned from
an older monochrome lcd display if it has sufficient response.
Or some LEDs mounted behind a fan such that the blades
of the fan would interrupt the beams. Varying the speed
of rotation suitably would require some thought...
Quote from: conradelektro on 2016.12.15, 18:30:44
I downloaded Mindroid to my smartphone (Samsung Note 4, has a pen) and could set it to 40 Hz. The sound seems to indicate that it really is 40 Hz. But I can only do it with two big red dots on the screen. Other colors are not possible with the free version of Mindroid.
It looks like the screen of my Smartphone is fast enough, I see some black as the big red dots are flickering on and off (see the attached photo of my smartphone running Mindroid, the free version, only red dots).
I have to download a development system for my Windows PC which allows to write programs for Android smart phones. The program should allow to set the duty cycle when displaying a dot or other shapes flickering at 40 Hz on the screen. And of course one wants to experiment with different colors.
But it will take some time to write the program for my smart phone. A few years ago I wrote a few silly programs for my old smart phone and the learning curve was steep.
Greetings, Conrad
The version I put up in my post above in the .zip file will allow you to pick any color they have in the App. I assume you probably know how to do this but in case anyone else isn't sure how to install it from USB here's a quick rundown:
1. Go to "about phone" in your settings.
2. Tap on the 'Build number' section about 8 or 9 times until it says 'Developer options' enabled.
3. then back out of the "about phone" and look for "Developer options" in your settings.
4. tap Developer options and then check the box for USB debugging
4a. Go back to settings and look for Security. Tap Security and check the box "Unknown Sources" so you can install from a file without going through Google Play store.
5. attach usb cable to phone and computer
6. Unzip Mindroid file to computer and then copy it to your phone 'download' folder
7. Use phone file manager to find file and tap it to install
Quote from: muDped on 2016.12.15, 20:52:20
This is turning out to be quite a challenging project.
In the Old Days we would have used an incandescent
bulb for the light source and some sort of small motor
driven shutter to interrupt the light to produce flicker.
Where colored light was needed a colored filter would
be used.
A more modern type of shutter might be fashioned from
an older monochrome lcd display if it has sufficient response.
Or some LEDs mounted behind a fan such that the blades
of the fan would interrupt the beams. Varying the speed
of rotation suitably would require some thought...
You may want to look at the Mindroid App - I think it takes care of most concerns and is quite simple to use. I did a screen capture during a session in Mindroid using a binaural setting and you can see comparing it to conradelectro's picture that the right eye red circle is completely off. When viewing it in real time it appears both sides are flickering rapidly. If you have your phone brightness setting set high and auto brightness turned off you'll find these color circles to be every bit as bright as and LED. Note that the reason one side is off during this instant in the capture is because it is in Binaural mode.
Quote from: e2matrix
You may want to look at the Mindroid App -
:'( :) As an Old Faahrt who is kinda stuck in the past
I marvel at how people use these new-fangled thing-a
-ma-bobs to do all kinds of things including the mobile
telephone. ;)
If I was two or three decades younger I'd probably be
into that kind of stuff too. ;D
Beam me up Scotty! 8)
Quote from: muDped on 2016.12.16, 03:33:28
:'( :) As an Old Faahrt who is kinda stuck in the past
I marvel at how people use these new-fangled thing-a
-ma-bobs to do all kinds of things including the mobile
telephone. ;)
If I was two or three decades younger I'd probably be
into that kind of stuff too. ;D
Beam me up Scotty! 8)
LOL - can't be any more complex than electronics ;) You might be surprised how old I am though - I'll just say you've got a couple years on me but not by much.
e2
It would seem there are plenty of methods to achieve a 40hz pulse, from Dumped's Fan on a Potentiometer in front of a bulb
all the way to Apps and such.
what is really needed is the ability to see if this Dormant or "effected" Gamma wave form is being manifest in the patient during treatments
seeing _that_ part of the brain react to the stimuli is imperative,
what does this gamma wave form look like ?
what part of the brain does this particular Gamma wave manifest from?[where to place the sensor/electrode?
are sharper pulses relevant to effect treatment ?
softer ? [the answer would be in the data or viewing
having the whole picture would hopefully enlighten Us and help those suffering from this horrible disease?
respectfully
Chet
Hi Chet.
A valid point, we could do with something that can " read " whether the brain is being stimulated by the process.
I too am stuck in the past.... I was warned about the mobile/cell phone many years ago by an acquaintance who worked at NASA his area of expertise was in radio frequency communication. As a consequence I have never owned and rarely used one! I feel I would need a " Dumb " phone not a smart one!
Kind regards, Graham.
Quote from: Chet K on 2016.12.16, 15:05:46
e2
It would seem there are plenty of methods to achieve a 40hz pulse, from Dumped's Fan on a Potentiometer in front of a bulb
all the way to Apps and such.
what is really needed is the ability to see if this Dormant or "effected" Gamma wave form is being manifest in the patient during treatments
seeing _that_ part of the brain react to the stimuli is imperative,
what does this gamma wave form look like ?
what part of the brain does this particular Gamma wave manifest from?[where to place the sensor/electrode?
are sharper pulses relevant to effect treatment ?
softer ? [the answer would be in the data or viewing
having the whole picture would hopefully enlighten Us and help those suffering from this horrible disease?
respectfully
Chet
"All humans display five different types of electrical patterns or "brain waves" across the cortex. The brain waves can be observed with an EEG (or an "electroencephalograph") – a tool that allows researchers to note brain wave patterns. Each brain wave has a purpose and helps serve us in optimal mental functioning." So unless you have an EEG (expensive) you may have to trust that such LED or smartphone screen or whichever method does indeed entrain the brain to that frequency. I know from personal experience that using LED flashing in a binaural mode along sound most definitely has an effect on your mind and depending on which frequency you choose will do anything from put you into a deep sleep (delta) to have you feeling like you just drank 4 cups of coffee (high beta or gamma).
Personally I use a cell phone mostly as a handheld computer and do avoid talking on them. I don't text except very rarely (maybe once in a couple months) and only keep one with me for emergencies and very brief talks if I'm away from my GF. I am aware of the EMF issue and keep them away from my body as much as possible. I think if you use one in the VR type goggles it will be away from your face far enough that the benefits of the Gamma flashing will outweigh any EMF concerns and you should put it in 'Airplane mode' when using it this way since that turns OFF the cellular radio. Also turn off Wifi and Bluetooth.
e2
here is an "old school" method for this DIY EEG
{Repost from post 51 in this thread]
Chet K
Quote
"Jim
as mentioned, It will be necessary to see if the required repair sequence is stimulated by this light pulse therapy.
here is an example just to show how simple this home brew EEG [Electroencephalogram] could be [seeing brain activity]
http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-EEG-and-ECG-Circuit/
very exciting possibilities here
end quote
------------------------------
respectfully
Chet K
Am old skool here too in many ways.... especially the House/Acid music side of old skool :D
Got a landline, my cellphone is for playing games on and was a gift from a relative 'for parts' O0
The Mindroid App is a blast !
Flickering circles with whale noises. I downloaded a setting to edit, but it wouldn't keep it stored for some reason. Will look at it again though definitely, was just a 10 minute look-see. And, yep, drawing a straight line with the finger is nigh on impossible. A trick, may be to put a ruler over the screen and use a pen tip.
Here's an alternative 'simple' EEG circuit:
http://erkutlu.blogspot.com/2012/12/eeg-and-arduino-do-it-yourself-eeg-ekg.html
Perhaps we need to look at what it has to do and then design a "How To Do It" for this 40Hz purpose.
The guy in the link does say about notch filtering ambient 60Hz noise, it's a good read.
His circuit utilises an AD620 instrumentation amplifier chip, so I went off to Ebay to see about a price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-AD620ARZ-AD620-chip-instrumentation-amplifiers-SOP-8-NEW-/142062762021
$1.32 each :)
Am not sure where I read this (have been clicking merrily all over the place), but an Aloe Vera and salt solution is touted as working well for going on a head sensor.
Using EEG to try to tell what the brain is doing is like standing in the parking lot outside a sports stadium and trying to figure out what is happening on the field by listening to the roar of the crowd.
a snip from the MIT article
""
This treatment appears to work by inducing brain waves known as gamma oscillations, which the researchers discovered help the brain suppress beta amyloid production and invigorate cells responsible for destroying the plaques. ""
---------------------------------------
How to see these "gamma oscillations " as they become "induced" ,would be a more specific goal of this particular EEG approach.
maybe getting as close as the Nosebleed seats for starters ?
I am actually quite amazed that the arduino can be used in this EEG application/ investigation and am anxious to see Marks results !
So am I :D
First thing is to order a couple of those AD620's...will look for a USA seller.
Update:
Bought 5 for $6.85
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-pcs-Instrumentation-Amplifier-IC-AD620-AD620AN-DIP-8-/401230846457
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.11, 16:34:01
The 40Hz flickering is very annoying, so i don't think someone would like to be in such a room for more then say half an hour.
That's because LEDs' light output is rectangular.
The flicker of a sine light output at 40Hz would not be so noticeable.
Unfortunately, driving a LED with sine wave voltage, does not produce a sine light output :(
This is because LED's light intensity is proportional to current - not to voltage. Scope the current flowing through a LED, while driving it with a triangular voltage waveform and see for yourself.
For a sine light output, a sine wave current drive would be required. This would require a rail-to-rail op-amp coupled to a CSR. If the op-amp is not powerful enough to light the LED by itself, then an additional analog output driver (e.g. an emitter follower buffer or the EL2009) would need to be inserted between the op-amp and the CSR (as in Diag.2 or Diag.3).
It might also be possible to do all that with the LM317 adjustable regulator. I think I've once seen
TinselKoala use this regulator in an atypical application acting as such V-->I converter + Buffer.
P.S.
The analog output drivers, such as: An audio amplifier, FG's direct output ...or the upcoming EL2009 buffer, all constitute variable voltage sources(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3383.0;attach=23621)
I tried square, triangular and sine wave signals last week, but no noticeable difference in flickering was seen, only the intensity varied.
I only measured the current on the square wave signal.
As my EL2009 FG buffer is almost ready i have no more EL2009 available, but i could use an ad8032 rail-to-rail op-amp as in your diag-1 or diag-2 setup.
The LM317 circuit would be possible too as i have severall coming, hopefully TK can remember.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.17, 10:20:10
I tried square, triangular and sine wave signals last week, but no noticeable difference in flickering was seen, only the intensity varied.
...but those were not current wavefroms.
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.17, 10:20:10
I only measured the current on the square wave signal.
You could add to you to-do list on a next video, the scoping of the current flowing through a LED when driven by an all-positive triangular voltage waveform.
I'm mentioning it only because it would be educational to other members here.
Quote from: Itsu on 2016.12.17, 10:20:10
...I could use an ad8032 rail-to-rail op-amp as in your diag-1 or diag-2 setup.
Yes, that op-amp will work but I think it will need some kind of help (buffer) at its output (like in Diag.2 or Diag.3) because it is not strong enough to light a big LED.
BTW: That 1Ω CSR programs the voltage-to-current converter to output 1A per 1V input. You can change that if you want, e.g. a 10Ω CSR will make it output 100mA per 1V. Possibly a N-ch MOSFET can be used in place of the NPN BJT emitter follower buffer ...possibly.
BONUS RANT:
Also, as usual with any current sourcing circuits, an "open circuit" situation (e.g. when the LED becomes disconnected) is a damaging condition to such circuit (e.g. it will blow the BJT emitter follower), just like a "short circuit" situation is a damaging condition to any voltage sourcing circuits.
In other words: current sources don't like to be opened and voltage sources don't like to be shorted.
Hello All.
I wonder if audio could stimulate the response? I'm a firm believer in a couple of hours of my favourite music every night. My father in law has sadly stopped listening to music favouring the inane rubbish on the TV.
Thanks Verpies, I had mentioned the triangular/sinusoidal waveform earlier but without your excellent explanation of the current aspect. The 50 Hz frequency was easily observed on our older single tube fluorescent lights that's why incandescent lamps were used to illuminate the work on a lathe, as the work could appear stationary under certain speed conditions. ( stroboscopic effect )
Cheers Graham.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.12.17, 13:31:44
My father in law has sadly stopped listening to music favouring the inane rubbish on the TV.
That stuff atrophies brains.
Soon he will be complaining that there aren't enough gay pairs to adopt all the children held by social services (https://youtu.be/QRH1grAgvtc).
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2016.12.16, 22:38:03
Using EEG to try to tell what the brain is doing is like standing in the parking lot outside a sports stadium and trying to figure out what is happening on the field by listening to the roar of the crowd.
I tend to agree in that when your brain is entrained to a particular range - theta for example - there will be elements of the other 4 states present also. Theta may be predominant but you'll still have some beta, gamma, delta and alpha present in most cases.
Quote from: Grumage on 2016.12.17, 13:31:44
Hello All.
I wonder if audio could stimulate the response? I'm a firm believer in a couple of hours of my favourite music every night. My father in law has sadly stopped listening to music favouring the inane rubbish on the TV.
Thanks Verpies, I had mentioned the triangular/sinusoidal waveform earlier but without your excellent explanation of the current aspect. The 50 Hz frequency was easily observed on our older single tube fluorescent lights that's why incandescent lamps were used to illuminate the work on a lathe, as the work could appear stationary under certain speed conditions. ( stroboscopic effect )
Cheers Graham.
Audio alone can entrain your brain into a particular range also - especially if using binaural beats but it is quicker and more effective if using flickering light also. The Monroe institute did some of the early research in this area. Theta technogies which had one of the early 'mind machines' worked closely with the Monroe institute.
Quote from: verpies on 2016.12.17, 16:45:29
That stuff atrophies brains.
Soon he will be complaining that there aren't enough gay pairs to adopt all the children held by social services (https://youtu.be/QRH1grAgvtc).
Dear Verpies.
Sadly his condition precludes comprehension of your post....but that's a " can of worms " that really needs to be opened sooner rather than later!!
Kind regards, Graham.
My Mum played classical music to me when I was in the womb.
I don't know if that should have been "to" or "at" in the above sentence :)
Perhaps...the LED flicker rate sets up the ability for repairs in the brain, but the right tones and mood changing effects may guide the repairs to where needed. Sort of like a radio being able to tune in to a heavy metal station, but if not in the mood for it you're not going to enjoy it.
Quote from: Slider2732 on 2016.12.17, 19:03:43
My Mum played classical music to me when I was in the womb.
I don't know if that should have been "to" or "at" in the above sentence :)
Perhaps...the LED flicker rate sets up the ability for repairs in the brain, but the right tones and mood changing effects may guide the repairs to where needed. Sort of like a radio being able to tune in to a heavy metal station, but if not in the mood for it you're not going to enjoy it.
I got a pair of headphones for dad with a bunch of his favorite music. Dad is a wonderful tenor who loves his music and he really enjoys the music through the headphones. There is an excellent doc about music and Alzheimer's.
My dad is being moved from hospital to a nursing home tomorrow where I'll be setting up the light permanently. It's chewing through the 9 volt batteries. I'm thinking about powering it from a usb power adapter but that will make it a bit dimmer with the lower voltage or just wire in a 9 volt transformer.
I've used this device in the past because it comes with several nice GUI's, two channel generator 4 to 200kHz with variable duty cycle, as well as analog inputs, other digital I/O. Very easy to use if you don't feel like programming but a bit more expensive than other approaches but saves a lot of time.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/iCP12-usbStick-6-Ch-Analog-USB-Oscilloscope-Unlimited-Logger-PIC18F2550-/280916642088?hash=item4167efc928:g:mfUAAOSwys5WUMMB
Quote from: verpies on 2016.12.17, 10:26:05
...but those were not current wavefroms.
You could add to you to-do list on a next video, the scoping of the current flowing through a LED when driven by an all-positive triangular voltage waveform.
I'm mentioning it only because it would be educational to other members here.
Yes, that op-amp will work but I think it will need some kind of help (buffer) at its output (like in Diag.2 or Diag.3) because it is not strong enough to light a big LED.
BTW: That 1Ω CSR programs the voltage-to-current converter to output 1A per 1V input. You can change that if you want, e.g. a 10Ω CSR will make it output 100mA per 1V. Possibly a N-ch MOSFET can be used in place of the NPN BJT emitter follower buffer ...possibly.
BONUS RANT:
Also, as usual with any current sourcing circuits, an "open circuit" situation (e.g. when the LED becomes disconnected) is a damaging condition to such circuit (e.g. it will blow the BJT emitter follower), just like a "short circuit" situation is a damaging condition to any voltage sourcing circuits.
In other words: current sources don't like to be opened and voltage sources don't like to be shorted.
No video, but screenshots.
A single blue 3mm led driven by my FG with all-positive sine, square and triangular waveforms, measuring the voltage (yellow) and the current (green)
FG voltage setting was 2.8V and the current controller set to 1mA/Div.
Note the difference in rms current between the waveforms.
Itsu
Quote from: Chet K on 2016.12.16, 15:05:46
what is really needed is the ability to see if this Dormant or "effected" Gamma wave form is being manifest in the patient during treatments
seeing _that_ part of the brain react to the stimuli is imperative,
what does this gamma wave form look like ?
what part of the brain does this particular Gamma wave manifest from?[where to place the sensor/electrode?
are sharper pulses relevant to effect treatment ?
softer ? [the answer would be in the data or viewing
having the whole picture would hopefully enlighten Us and help those suffering from this horrible disease?
I have a Muse unit and the SDK: http://www.choosemuse.com/developer-kit/ (http://www.choosemuse.com/developer-kit/)
I got it for developing a Stroke Rehabilitation app but at the time the SDK was more work than benefit. It has much improved over the last year and I'm going back to that project now.
I can do a parallel project for 'flickering lights' and will take suggestions on the requirements. It would be a fully integrated Muse/lights app.
Tak
Thank you so much for offering to help with this .
while the MO seems simple [flickering lights]
what are they actually doing ? ,or better yet, what does this necessary reaction look like and what part of the brain does it manifest from ?
the idea that we may actually be able to investigate this very passive and non invasive claim is amazing !
respectfully
Chet K
just dropping this here too
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/12/18/heart-disease-treatment-options.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20161218Z1&et_cid=DM128815&et_rid=1802470869
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_counterpulsation
today
- Installed Muse Monitor from: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonicPenguins.museMonitor&hl=en (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sonicPenguins.museMonitor&hl=en) and played around with it. Seems to do exactly as advertised. I can use this for quick visual of Gamma wave changes.
- Installed latest Muse SDKs for Windows and Android.
- Researched ways to increase gamma waves and found another possibility: Multi-Source Interference Task (MSIT)
- MSIT paper: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3817211/ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3817211/)
- Installed Inquisit Lab from: http://www.millisecond.com (http://www.millisecond.com) for running MSIT scripts.
- Next todo: Run a MSIT script and watch/record Muse Monitor to see if my gamma wave levels change.
Thank you for all your help. Sadly my Dad passed away today. I'm sure he would have loved to have known about the collaboration here. In case it helps anyone else, I really don't think my light was bright enough or close enough to him. It was on every morning for an hour. About 4m away though. I think it needed to be much more intrusive than that.
Good luck to you all working on fighting these shitty illnesses. Unrelated I also found this research http://www.salk.edu/news-release/cannabinoids-remove-plaque-forming-alzheimers-proteins-from-brain-cells/
Jim
I am shocked
sorry to read that ,It is a horrible disease .
will keep you and yours in our thoughts ,and also the science you and others have
shared here.
perhaps this path will help others, and who knows... even Us ??
Respectfully
Chet
Dear Jim.
Our sincerest condolences.
We tried the " Android " option for my fatherinlaw but sadly he found it irritated his eyes too much. So it's back to the steady decline.
You and your family will be in our thoughts.
Kind regards, Graham.
Quote from: Chet K on 2016.12.19, 19:35:18
Tak
Thank you so much for offering to help with this .
while the MO seems simple [flickering lights]
what are they actually doing ? ,or better yet, what does this necessary reaction look like and what part of the brain does it manifest from ?
the idea that we may actually be able to investigate this very passive and non invasive claim is amazing !
respectfully
Chet K
Here is the bomb of the millenia:
Any aggravation using high frequency(40hz is high freq?), that is and can be caused by a very high speed transition(this example equals 40 on, 40 off in the giga, tetra to femtohertz) causes the body's immune system to trigger. In this case its not immunology but stem cell release. Stem cells come from two places, bone marrow and stored fat. Exercise helps lose weight because the fat cells are triggered in the muscular stress. They build muscle. Gee who would've thunk that? Muscle builds, fat reduces. Tesla had his throne that he sat in everyday. He touted the cures it could promote.
In using the eye, the organ is stressed and causes a protein to be released by the body that cleans up the brains of plaque or unwanted debris. The body simply 'KNOWS' what doesn't belong(ah the miracle of life...). In the developed countries the diet has migrated towards a high content of undigestables. We know the list.
Back to the stem cell release...
The simple way to enable this is to:
https://www.voanews.com/a/mht-olive-oil-protects-brain-from-alzheimers-study/3911487.html
Coconut oil for ketone infusion. Now! A table spoon in the morning and before bed. Stop all deodorants and chemicals(including shampoos, dryer sheets, laundry detergents) in the household. Stop all gluten foods especially white doughs. Mryhh essential oil on the temples in the morning, Frankensence at night and inhale both. Stop all sweets. We want the brain to crave nourishment so it will suck up the oils.
Biblehealingoils.com
I was wondering what had happened with this 40Hz flickering concept against dementia after 6.5 years, so i did a quick google search (dementia 40Hz).
It came up with i big list of hits, some with good results, some with little to no results (replications of the initial mouse tests).
There are now some items to be bought like light boxes and sound applications, but the general outcome seems to be that there is no reduction in the plaque noted in mice after all.
Itsu
Itsu
I do have some contacts in that Area ( university)
Will ring this week to see if the original Student
Has continued her research.
Same Gentleman I am calling about that researcher had mentioned another interesting claim
last we spoke... he was helping a few enter this contest ( open source)
https://milkeninstitute.org/article/milken-motsepe-prize-green-energy-semi-finalists
The researchers he was helping to enter contest had magnet powered units ( of some sort)
Two entirely separate groups with Magnetic devices.
I believe cutoff to enter is this month ..
BTW
I think contest is hosted by United Nations ( originally (no comment ))
Goal is 2500 watts continuous for 24 hours ( completely autonomous of Grid 600kw total .
Sorry to mix topic , just a bit of FE news ,
last we spoke
They were still trying to reach the goal.?
BTW
Would be nice to speak with that researcher on the frequency claims.
Thanks for reboot of topic been something I wanted to ask about for quite some time.
And the open source Milkeninstitute subject is something I have been waiting for feedback on .
Respectfully
Chet
Hi Chet,
no problem, it would indeed be interesting to know if the original student has continued her research on the 40Hz signal.
Thanks for the info on the Milkeninstitute subject, hopefully something of value comes out of it.
Itsu
I miss Dad. I wish I had known about the VitD back then. Live & Learn
Jim
Vitamin D ?
More info?
Regarding contact at MIT will be calling Monday on information regarding this research ( thread title)
Also the Milkeninstitute contest entry mentioned post # 110 above..seems they have not met the threshold of 2500 watts continuous ( as per contest requirements)
Still very interested to understand how they improve moving forward...
Here member physics prof did share another claim along similar lines ( also in early development)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CpoBNJ5ZxKg
Sorry for some off topic
Just FE gossip...
Respectfully
Chet K
PS
EDIT for comment below
I will certainly pass this along to Stefan ( any health things he can consider)
Let me blow your minds as I am famous for doing for decades.
First of all stop reporting to the academic follies. They slow you down, steal your stuff and then charge ginormous amounts for inflated products.
Because I am posting this here and other places it is copyrighted by me and I freely open source this and give duplication rights to any body that copies this.
Yes you can make money off of this. I concur and allow.
Its white LEDS, a timing trigger and batteries.
I built a dual white LED flashlight using a digistump board for the timing.
The code in the Digistump flashes the LEDs at 40hz for 2 seconds to avoid heat issues. Release the [On] button and the timing will restart.
Now see that purple light? That is the fluorescent starter bulb in the schematic.
That area of the device is placed on the forehead between the eyes.The patient looks forward while pressing the [On] button.
The White LEDS shine into the eyes.
The EMP field from the starter causes the bone of the skull to eject stem cells into the body.
That lighted band is a cable tie.
Now whats interesting is put the LEDs in a Christmas tree star ornament and place in on dining hall tables in Nursing homes and Altzheimer care centers.
Incognito repair. The medical studies and peer reviewed white papers are out there.
Maybe Stefan on OverUnity can use this.
Stayed tuned for other great hacks. On the wrong planet again...
https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/does-flashing-light-really-lower-cortical-amyloid (https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/does-flashing-light-really-lower-cortical-amyloid)
The patient has to want to be better seems to guide the process. We have found this with a model that only has the starter in it and no LEDS. Of the 20 patients that had units submitted to them only 3 didnt care. They used the device once in the test window and put it away. The placebo effect can be a part of the process and there is nothing wrong about that. The only problem with the Placebo effect is the authorities are not involved.
Addressing the Placebo effect with external remedies is illegal but only if a 'Healing' claim is made for a price.
I sell dog whistles and flashlights. What you do with them in not my business.
Giantkiller link
https://www.alzforum.org/news/research-news/does-flashing-light-really-lower-cortical-amyloid
Tremendous gratitude, you saved a lot of time.
And honestly, I always have suspicions around
Entities that Dismiss research as unviable ,
When it's apparent that with this type of light therapy there is not sufficient financial return
Or a Big Revenue stream ( AKA drug or long term treatment) .
Sort of a hot potato... ( easy cure that might jeopardize drug company revenue
as you have written in the past.
"Nothing to see here move along"
Respectfully
Chet K
GK, is the goal just to entrain the brain to 40Hz by whatever means, or does it specifically have to be done with light and be visual?
Brainwave entrainment can be accomplished through sound and mild electric shock as well.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2024.03.06, 18:30:34
GK, is the goal just to entrain the brain to 40Hz by whatever means, or does it specifically have to be done with light and be visual?
Brainwave entrainment can be accomplished through sound and mild electric shock as well.
Brain entrainment seems to be the commander. The EMP into the bone marrow shows the greatest effect. People that really want to be healed in and of themselves get the most benefit. It seems to be what ever stirs the mind along with the greatest injected discomfort. The bizarre placebo is the mind directs the [energy] ( I hate to use this word) to an area of focus. If you have no problem then you wont notice anything. If you choose to deny the events by others then you will likewise have no event. I will not deny the effect for I had a broken rib heal in 2 weeks from sitting in the field of the QuantumPulse by Vibe tech. Gene is a member here. I watched the doctors call my labeled xrays incorrectly labeled from the xray table when the [before(from Swedish) and after(from St Joes)] xrays where side by side with my name, med number and L for left. I did not correct the doctors or offer information as to the possibility of a grand healing that took place. To this day I have no rib cage malady. I snow board at 12.5k feet altitude.
So I took the EMP process and downsized it. Lo and behold it works too, just like Tesla told us. There is a patent from 1910( I can not find it in my piles nor on the internet anymore) where the inventor puts a screen in a regular bed and EMP clicks it every hour. Tumors disappeared. Whats odd about that patent is it documents patient results in the patent!
I sold a QuantumPulse to a male that was going to die from Prostate cancer. The big machine caused his numbers to drop and his life has been extended. He uses the big one every weekend and the 'Heeler'(dog whistle) wand every weekday. The very fact that what he saw lifted his spirits caused every one around him to take pause and enjoy a healing moment. I have many of these stories and the small units in multiple countries. One Costa Rican lady asked me how do I get it past customs? I told her to say its a female toy. Boom and its in place. Get it?
Now this technology will not reverse structural damage that has healed in place or scar tissue. But fresh problems are easily repaired.
I know what I did, what I saw and what was reported to me by others.
What pulled all this together for such a time as this? You, OVERUNITYRESEARCH.COM, You!
I broke my rib in 2013 way after I had been involved with Tesla tech since Overunity.com in 2006.
Christ told Matthew 'You can do this and more'. So why not?
We have reached the point in society where people are through being told what they can not do by faux auths. Kapeesh?
Blessings from the stun gun king.
Sir
I have had very recent experience with a pet and a radical treatment for an always fatal illness.
A treatment that actually works ( high success rate ..denied access by mainstream medicine with a big private following online)
However I am uncertain of your "painful" comment above ..
This is very painful ?shockingly ( no pun intended))
If so it definitely connects some dots with me ..
Respectfully
Chet
EDIT for GK reply below
Thank you for clarifying ( to me) my perception was pain ( stun gun shock etc)
In the case of the pet treatment I referred to ( extreme pain involved)
Somehow that treatment takes an always fatal Cat illness ,
And gives incredible results.( not mainstream treatment .
And Cats and Kittens can't placebo..BTW this Can't Placebo is not a critical statement
Placebo /faith/belief etc etc is absolutely genuine in human trials.. set in stone !
Hi Chet,
If you are referring to me making a 'painful' statement I am not sure what you mean. I suffered no pain in using this tech.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2024.03.10, 05:22:47
Hi Chet,
If you are referring to me making a 'painful' statement I am not sure what you mean. I suffered no pain in using this tech.
Nope. What comment are you referring too?These devices are not painful at all.
GK
I had replied in edit to my last post 118 ( a habit I got into over the years to not bump threads with my nonsense)
However
To directly answer your question ( besides my stun gun assumption in Edit above)
Giantkiller
Quote
"The EMP into the bone marrow shows the greatest effect. People that really want to be healed in and of themselves get the most benefit. It seems to be what ever stirs the mind along with the greatest injected discomfort"
End quote
Sorry I misunderstood
It's that EMP "greatest injected discomfort " part
That got me thinking pain involved.
And on my end the cure mentioned by "FIP warriors "
Is insanely painful ( yet claims some antiviral medicine)
It's the Medicine and virus part that sounds suspicious ( viri mutate before breakfast)
How could they have a generic anti viral ( perhaps my ignorance or ?)
Anyhow,
I started thinking perhaps the extreme pain triggers some super antiviral reaction against the FIP disease ,
Since it is always fatal disease, yet the very painful( and illegal in medical community) treatment has incredibly high success rate (90+ percent?)
And as I mentioned.. in animals there is no placebo effect to account for .( as part of the cure)
Sorry for off topic bits
But I truly would love to try this technology with the animals ( usually kittens ) who are doomed to a death ..
The FIP treatment mentioned is perhaps a 10 thousand dollar cost and dooms the animals whose owners cannot afford it ( most can't).
With gratitude
Chet
Oh I see now. The discomfort I am referring to is to disrupt the bone marrow stasis. The marrow gets shaken.