Lets do it like a real project
Exploring technical sideways whitin the concept of a grenade coil together with the HF ionisation principle.
Changing the supposed bounderies how these HF/ LF concepts are presented on schematics in order to discover undisclosed output effects
Starting coil setup configuration:
Grenade is configured with a inductor coil.
Tesla coil setup has a connection to a antenna coil which is positioned at inductor coil.
In order to keep compliant with design setups during the rollout of the tests with optional changes on the as built setup version control wil be inplace.
The following information will be part of setup.
1- schematic ( drawing how coils etc are connected)
2- specifications of used coils
3- layout ( picture or drawing of dimensions and positions between the different components)
In order to keep control on working configuration the system wil be cut up in sub- systems
For now we can define 2 sub- systems.
1- HF system (HF generation and grenade)
2- LF- system ( LF generation and LC loop)
switched reluctance AC generator page 1 reply 3
Development no 1
transformers wound with coaxcable page 2 reply 47
I will be direct.
Purpose humanity.. free energy.
In other words Nickz its not personal but I prefer you stay on your own bench.
Policy here is OU. .. so if there is any modrrator or owner of this forum confirm please this is the goal.
Sorry my friend.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.27, 21:24:11
Lets do it like a real project
Do you have a guiding operational principle that you'd like to build by ?
Quote from: bfulmind23 on 2023.09.27, 17:24:00
Do you perhaps know how to find this article? Can't find it on the net.
This is an old paper by two polish guys who apply electrical current to a piece ferrite in order to change its magnetic reluctance.
Full title:
"Konrad and Brudny in "An Improved Method for Virtual Air Gap Length Computation," in IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 41, No. 10, October 2005."
Also, a Bulgarian inventor Valeri Ivanov also claims an electrically controllable reluctance switch.
A piece of ferrite that changes its magnetic reluctance without mechanical drag-back penalty is the Holy Grail for magnetic motor and generator designs.
For example a patent US9742252B2 uses this method to make a switched reluctance AC generator:
QuoteAnother electrical means of implementing a reluctance switch is the placement within the primary magnetic path of certain classes of materials that change (typically increase) their reluctance upon the application of electricity. A different way of implementing a reluctance switch is to saturate a sub-region of a primary magnetic path by inserting conducting electrical wires into the material comprising the primary magnetic path.
There is a small thread about such materials here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3698.msg71411#msg71411).
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.27, 21:24:11
Lets do it like a real project
Exploring technical sideways whitin the concept of a grenade coil together with the HF ionisation principle.
Changing the supposed bounderies how these HF/ LF concepts are presented on schematics in order to discover undisclosed output effects
Hi Apecore,
A real project would probably actually yield some good reuslts - however, as you might notice quite quicky, these forms, and
their paricipants, are not actually up to that task!
Sorry,
a noble goal I agree, but as you will soon learn; these forums do not have the talent you seek...
Skills, ability, knowledge, and equipment are relatively non-existant here for this type of engineering development; IMHO.
At least it has not been demonstrated here for over more than 10+ years. Unfortunate... A few rare exceptions but they get
suppressed quite quickly, as has been demonstrated over time.
Maybe a better solution might be to look elsewhere. Someplace where development and engineering are above cut -and-paste
or unfounded opinions and argumentive accusations. JMHO!
SL
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.27, 22:59:34
This is an old paper by two polish guys who apply electrical current to a piece ferrite in order to change its magnetic reluctance.
Full title:
"Konrad and Brudny in "An Improved Method for Virtual Air Gap Length Computation," in IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 41, No. 10, October 2005."
Also, a Bulgarian inventor Valeri Ivanov also claims an electrically controllable reluctance switch.
A piece of ferrite that changes its magnetic reluctance without mechanical drag-back penalty is the Holy Grail for magnetic motor and generator designs.
For example a patent US9742252B2 uses this method to make a switched reluctance AC generator:
There is a small thread about such materials here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3698.msg71411#msg71411).
Verpies,
This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration.
My first objective is to start with sub- system 1, the HF part.
I hope that during the progress of this ferrite thred possible ideas/ options on the yoke part.will be mentioned or adressed.
Well it all depends on what you know like which piece of the jigsaw part dos what and just like medication what each module does and side affects are
you have to take into consideration obviously Ape must have thought he was onto a winner canceling his account and Itsu ignores me at his own
determent but me I'm unconditional in my attitude because at an early age i became a NDE experience for a short time, anything in this existence is possible.
Sil
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 11:58:30
Verpies,
This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration.
My first objective is to start with sub- system 1, the HF part.
I hope that during the progress of this ferrite thred possible ideas/ options on the yoke part.will be mentioned or adressed.
Hi Apecore.
Several years ago I remember T-1000 posted a link to an Eastern European video where, and I'm hoping my memory serves me correctly, a simple transformer circuit driving a lightbulb was shown to get brighter when a small Tesla coil was switched on along side it.
I believe it was on the thread Kapanadse cousin over at OU.Com.
Cheers Grum.
Yeah it's still in the Dally thread some where it has to be in resonance and transmit magnetic radiation, the SG changes freq it's a Don Smith thing.
Sil
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 11:58:30
This subject could become part of the system as an addition to the Push pull yoke configuration.
I do not know.
I was just answering BeautifulMind's question asked in another thread that got deleted.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.28, 14:04:18
Hi Apecore.
Several years ago I remember T-1000 posted a link to an Eastern European video where, and I'm hoping my memory serves me correctly, a simple transformer circuit driving a lightbulb was shown to get brighter when a small Tesla coil was switched on along side it.
I believe it was on the thread Kapanadse cousin over at OU.Com.
Cheers Grum.
Thanks for the observation. I know there are a lot test done last decade. Probably the tools are there we just need to connect the rigth dots.
By sayiing that I'm looking for a way to have those observations available when needed but also I'd like to keep this trhead as clean as possible.
If possible we should only use 3 or 4 post to adress a proposed available option and its potential.
F.i. you brougth up a suggestion... next we need the link or specific information and then a vew opinions..
So I can put a link or the thread number in the first starting thread which gives us guick acces to info we want to use on later moment.
Also I will use a policy... ( this is in general) that post like AG did... I call them " non related opinions".. NRO's which are not effective for our goal... it doesn't contribute to the subject.
Probably at certain moment in time I will remove these kind posts as it just useless to archive.
I hope you all can understand this I like a clean thread.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.28, 14:49:15
Yeah it's still in the Dally thread some where it has to be in resonance and transmit magnetic radiation, the SG changes freq it's a Don Smith thing.
Sil
Would be nice if we could findva summerised post where we can link to, as I suggested
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 15:16:21
I do not know.
I was just answering BeautifulMind's question asked in another thread that got deleted.
I must say the way you have added this subject here is a good example on effectively collecting information.
I will add this post to the tread index page.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.27, 21:24:11
2- specifications of used coils
Since you are not proposing a concrete coil topology, I will take the lead and propose to start with 2 bucking coils wound on a ferrite sausage (composed of many toroidal cores glued together - powder iron or zinc ferrite, as big as possible).
The idea is to supply one coil with DC or LF, while the second coil is pulsed with HF pulses of the same H amplitude as that created by the DC(LF) coil.
During the peak of the pulse, their magnetic fields will buck and create field topology like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49155)
...and when the current flowing in the HF pulse coil is zero or reversed, their magnetic fields will aid and create field topology like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49157)
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.27, 21:24:11
1- schematic ( drawing how coils etc are connected)
The schematic is guided by the need to quickly switch between these two field configurations with approximately 1% duty cycle.
Consequently, the HF pulsed coil cannot be composed of many turns of wire because that would create a high inductance coil (with large inter-turn capacitance (ITC), too).
The large inductance of such coil would just choke any HF pulsed current and its inter-turn capacitance (ITC) will distort the field it and cause LC ringing.
To change the current through this pulsed coil quickly, it will need to have few turns (low inductance) and maybe be wound with a coaxial cable to defeat the ITC and be supplied by a strong HV pulses, to create a magnetic field comparable to the DC(LF) coil's.
However, the DC (or LF) coil can be composed of many turns because we do not want the current through it to change quickly and we do not want the HF pulses to get back to the DC or LF supply anyway.
To verify whether this works, a self-made magnetic 2D magnetic field sensor can be inserted in the location where the bucking field line becomes perpendicular to the axis of the coil, and scoped on 2-ch simultaneously.
If you don't mind I would propose to challenge your presented concept with the grenade setup?
I believe as you are always a vew steps ahead of the music you did not launch this concept out of nothing.
So I hope I can ask the right questions as I assume you have a purpose with this analogy.
It differs from my perspective in order to stay close to the Ruslan setup but thats not an relevant issue.
So is there a comparisment or joined effort in these two concepts?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 17:28:42
If you don't mind I would propose to challenge your presented concept with the grenade setup?
Of course, I do not want yes-men.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 17:28:42
So is there a comparisment or joined effort in these two concepts?
I do not understand the word "comparisment".
Great, me either.
Attached my idea related to the grenade coil topology.
Crux is probably the yoke setup with the push pull driver.
First step I consider is to get the HF HV running
Therefore I want to use 2Mhz 22uH grenade and a 2Mhz resonating Tesla combination.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 17:31:34
Of course, I do not want yes-men.
I do not understand the word "comparisment".
Use of concept effectively
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 17:41:50
Crux is probably the yoke setup with the push pull driver.
If you think that magic happens in the yoke, then let's switch to the STAAAR Yoke device.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 17:41:50
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49159)
I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.
Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 18:01:01
I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.
Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).
I understand.but Nick and most others stayed inside the boundaries and no real out of the box ideas where lainched.
But ok, again your proppsal is legimit you have my full support as it is for me more then education and it brings generally usefull information.
Besides that I will do my propsed built and will post some results. I hope we come to a point of interrst regarding some results.
If not this concept will be terminated
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 17:41:50
Therefore I want to use 2Mhz 22uH grenade and a 2Mhz resonating Tesla combination.
Why 2MHz ?
Why 22µH ?
What about the ITC & IWC, will you want to maximize them or minimize them ...and why ?
What type of windings do you plan to have on the Yoke ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 18:05:27
I do not believe that the published documentaion of the coil internals is complete and accurate, thus I do not want to rebuild a coil that just looks superficially similar to the many replication attempts shown on the myriad of YT videos. This is what Nick has been doing for years and look where it has led him.
Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).
That coil your showing wont really do anything other than cancel out any useful phase angle.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.28, 19:02:45
That coil your showing wont really do anything other than cancel out any useful phase angle.
That (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49159) one ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 18:30:33
Why 2MHz ?
Why 22µH ?
What about the ITC & IWC, will you want to maximize them or minimize them ...and why ?
What type of windings do you plan to have on the Yoke ?
Damm, had typed a reply but logged out automaticaly.... post gone
The thing is.. probably I have a grenade fetish... I want to do a last radically change before giving up.
Its remarkable that a chunk wire of 37.5meter can be wound to a 2Mh, resonator.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 19:14:00
Its remarkable that a chunk wire of 37.5meter can be wound to a 2Mh, resonator.
That is ¼ wavelength of 2MHz in vacuum, but with the coil the inductance and ITC changes the propagation velocity.
.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 19:18:44
That is ¼ wavelength of 2MHz in vacuum, but with the coil the inductance and ITC changes the propagation velocity.
I did measure that, cant recall it at the m9ment... what I do know is the propagation delay can be changed significantely by add8ng aluminium foil.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 19:27:25
...what I do know is the propagation delay can be changed significantely by add8ng aluminium foil.
Of course, conductive foil becomes a capacitor plate and adds ITC.
High ε
r (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity#Relative_permittivity) insulation on the wires increases it, too.
Even the ε
r (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity#Relative_permittivity) of the coil former/support influences it.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 19:30:04
Of course, conductive foil becomes a capacitor plate and adds ITC.
Can it be enough to come to a 90 degree phaseshift and synchronise the TC primairy pulsing to it?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.28, 19:32:10
Can it be enough to come to a 90 degree phaseshift and synchronise the TC primairy pulsing to it?
Yes, it can create a quarter cycle delay just like any delay line. What that delay needs to be is determined by the frequency.
...but why play with coils to delay EM waves when you have plenty of cheap coaxial cable nowadays? The wave moves at almost half the speed in the coax and always longer pieces of coax can be used to create more delay.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 19:12:44
That (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49159) one ?
Don't know link fails,
if you have a hair pin loop is cancels out voltage, Don smith statment. Oh and i think grenade and tesla have to be same frequency or multipal of it.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.28, 20:55:23
Don't know link fails,
No it doesn't. It is a valid link to a .jpg file.
Someone else please confirm this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49159).
Open for me and took screenshot attached below
If that's the picture all you will get is current no voltage, if you added another multiple of the tuned wave you would get some voltage
(the 2 windings cancel out)
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.28, 22:52:37
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49166)
You need a better computer or less stuff hogging your memory.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 18:05:27
Instead, I wanted to demonstrate that the goal of quickly switching between the bucking and aiding magnetic field configurations between two coils, naturally forces us to engineer a coil topology which superficially resembles "The Grenade" and this internal process is normally hidden from view (not superficial).
So how do we start from here?
I think we should finish talking about your winding diagram, the idea of using delay lines to synchronize i & v and this document (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49161), which you have attached.
I'll start with the latter.
The paper starts by declaring a goal of synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency. I notice that this goal is ill-defined from the start because it is impossible to separately measure the ITC from the externally added capacitance, which affects the self-oscillation frequency of the winding by a different mechanisms. anyway. Also, the document fails to consider the well-known fact that helical coils are frequency-dispersive elements, in which waves of different frequency move at different speeds (unlike in coaxial cables).
That said, I think that the goal of this paper should be revised to creating a coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency. This is a worthy goal in itself and the paper demonstrates that it is possible by folding the wire upon itself and cleverly manipulating the ITC and the reflections from the unterminated end of the winding.
That wire fold also leads us to engineer a coil that has the known grenade shape.
Of course that begs the question: What are such purely self-oscillating coils needed for ?
That's an interesting document, but takes some time to digest all of it.
It does mention the same goal as Stalker did in one of his videos which is the "synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency." (LC- and ¼ wave resonances match) in his Grenade coil.
"A coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency" could serve as a signal source and possibly used for cascading several to build up to produce any significant power?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.29, 09:26:46
It does mention the same goal as Stalker did in one of his videos which is the "synchronizing a standing wave resonance with LC resonance frequency." (LC- and ¼ wave resonances match) in his Grenade coil.
The problem with this statement is that the lumped model of LC resonance is irrelevant at wavelengths approaching the length of the coil. This is because in this lumped model, the current is analytically presupposed to be uniformly distributed along the wire of the coil (see this (http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/tesla_coils.htm)).
The standard wave reflections still happen in such coils but they do not happen isotropically at speeds determined by the permeability and permittivity of empty space but anisotropically at the speeds determined by permittivity of the wire insulation and the coil-former and permeability of the turns.
NOTE: The speed of light in empty space is c=1/√(ε
0μ
0)
where:
ε
0 is the permittivity of empty space.
μ
0 is the permeability of empty space.
Reflections happen at any boundary where the impedance changes. Impedance is also determined by ε and μ.
Multiple winding layers or multiple windings with multiple spacings complicate the matter further.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.29, 09:26:46
"A coil that self-oscillates at only one frequency" could serve as a signal source and possibly used for cascading several to build up to produce any significant power?
It certainly would be useful for construction of narrowband filters and tuned transformers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-tuned_amplifier#Stage_gain) and for the application of single-frequency magnetic fields to objects inside the coil, as well as reception of a particular frequency of the magnetic field.
However the narrow bandedness of the coil says nothing about its quality (how much energy it loses per 1 cycle of oscillation). From the scopeshots in that paper it is apparent that the single-frequency oscillations in the optimized coil still decay rapidly, so its Q is low. Thus alone, such coils cannot be a source of any energy gain.
Morning Guys.
FYI the Grenade coil seen in the 2 KW aquarium Kapanadse video was wound with Blue insulation Coaxial cable. I can provide photographic evidence if required.
Cheers Grum.
PS. Please remove post if considered irrelevant.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.29, 11:01:59
FYI the Grenade coil seen in the 2 KW aquarium Kapanadse video was wound with Blue insulation Coaxial cable. I can provide photographic evidence if required.
PS. Please remove post if considered irrelevant.
Windings made with coaxial cable are very relevant because it is one of the techniques to combat ITC and the magnetic field distortions that it creates as well as the reverberations at multiple frequencies which are the scourge of helical coils.
So, yes by all means provide the photographic evidence.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.28, 22:56:12
You need a better computer or less stuff hogging your memory.
Hmm I don't think so it's only that link that's playing up , are you running win 11
did you erase all the spy and cloud monitoring if not we could be in danger.
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 11:23:37
Windings made with coaxial cable are very relevant because it is one of the techniques to combat ITC and the magnetic field distortions that it creates as well as the reverberations at multiple frequencies which are the scourge of helical coils.
So, yes by all means provide the photographic evidence.
Is it an idea to start with a coax coil as a test example for your proposed bucking coil idea?
In order to get more specific information?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 10:05:43
The problem with this statement is that the lumped model of LC resonance is irrelevant at wavelengths approaching the length of the coil. This is because in this lumped model, the current is analytically presupposed to be uniformly distributed along the wire of the coil (see this (http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/tesla_coils.htm)).
The standard wave reflections still happen in such coils but they do not happen isotropically at speeds determined by the permeability and permittivity of empty space but anisotropically at the speeds determined by permittivity of the wire insulation and the coil-former and permeability of the turns.
NOTE: The speed of light in empty space is c=1/√(ε0μ0)
where:
ε0 is the permittivity of empty space.
μ0 is the permeability of empty space.
Reflections happen at any boundary where the impedance changes. Impedance is also determined by ε and μ.
Multiple winding layers or multiple windings with multiple spacings complicate the matter further.
It certainly would be useful for construction of narrowband filters and tuned transformers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-tuned_amplifier#Stage_gain) and for the application of single-frequency magnetic fields to objects inside the coil, as well as reception of a particular frequency of the magnetic field.
However the narrow bandedness of the coil says nothing about its quality (how much energy it loses per 1 cycle of oscillation). From the scopeshots in that paper it is apparent that the single-frequency oscillations in the optimized coil still decay rapidly, so its Q is low. Thus alone, such coils cannot be a source of any energy gain.
In the old Ruslan thread where Vasik supplied a lot of info ( https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg82534#msg82534 ) there was a calculator to calculate the LC resonance AND the Standing wave resonance in a single layer coil: http://gorchilin.com/calculator/reactor?lang=en see some discussions in that thread about this calculator:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90605#msg90605
Could this calculator be of any use here?
Itsu
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.29, 13:16:47
Hmm I don't think so it's only that link that's playing up ,
No, read your error message again. The out of memory error is there in plain sight.
Also, Chet and dozen others had no problems opening that file so the problem is unique to your computer.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.29, 13:16:47
are you running win 11
No, I don't touch that spyware.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.09.29, 13:16:47
did you erase all the spy and cloud monitoring if not we could be in danger.
I never installed it.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.29, 14:37:30
Is it an idea to start with a coax coil as a test example for your proposed bucking coil idea?
In order to get more specific information?
It might be a good idea to learn more about transformers wound with coax first.
I would like to read some insights about them from any EE types here like (but not limited to) F6FLT, Guyla, partzman, picowatt and that guy who was helping Itsu once with the RF amplifier, as these types of transformers seem to be frequently used in such amplifiers.
There is something not right with my understanding of these coax transformers.
How can a pulse enclosed in a coaxial cable, which is additionally inserted in a
solid copper tube, get out and affect anything outside it ? See:
https://youtu.be/Na34jh1HqfQ
... and the Dally setup also demonstrated interaction outside of a shorted coax.
P.S.
I think I bothered him once to put the terminating resistor inside a conductive box but I don't remember that it made a difference.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.29, 14:58:50
Could this calculator be of any use here?
Sure, I would like to be able to build cleanly self-resonating coils without trial & error. It seem like a must-have skill.
Does this calculator work, despite being based on the wrong premise of an infinite propagation speed assumed in the lumped component LC resonance ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 17:02:44
There is something not right with my understanding of these coax transformers.
How can a pulse enclosed in a coaxial cable, which is additionally inserted in a solid copper tube, get out and affect anything outside it ? See:
https://youtu.be/Na34jh1HqfQ
Thats a good point.
To get good understanding and make this work in our favor this " effect" needs to be classified. The question that comes next is could it be electrostatic as you indicated inductive related would not pass the copper tube.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.09.29, 17:41:55
The question that comes next is could it be electrostatic as you indicated inductive related would not pass the copper tube.
@Itsu: If Delamorto is not keeping you busy, could you earth-ground that copper tube and see whether the effect becomes confined to that coax cable inside it (shorted and terminated in a Cu foil box).
All electric field interactions outside should be stopped by an earth-grounded copper tube.
Hi Guys.
From 9 years ago.... https://youtu.be/uDofBGk4OCc?feature=shared
Once again, please delete if inappropriate. To be honest I don't really know what was actually happening.....
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.09.29, 18:15:58
Once again, please delete if inappropriate. To be honest I don't really know what was actually happening.....
It is relevant and appropriate.
I notice that your experiment was not performed tightly. Specifically, the coax was not driven completely asymmetrically (the way coax is usually driven). You did not guard against applying high voltage potentials on the shield of the coax and I did not notice that the shield was earth-grounded.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 17:50:49
@Itsu: If Delamorto is not keeping you busy, could you earth-ground that copper tube and see whether the effect becomes confined to that coax cable inside it (shorted and terminated in a Cu foil box).
All electric field interactions outside should be stopped by an earth-grounded copper tube.
It seems that Delamorto has put his thread on hold for the time being.
I found that copper tube coil still with the coax center wire inside, so i can try to do that test again now with the copper tube grounded and the resistor shielded.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.29, 20:42:50
I found that copper tube coil still with the coax center wire inside, so i can try to do that test again now with the copper tube grounded and the resistor shielded.
Great!
Please do not connect the coax's shield to the copper tube, but earth-ground the copper tube.
The foil/box that shields the termination resistor, should not touch that resistor nor the coax's shield, but it should be connected (preferably by solder) to the copper tube.
Sense the magnetic field outside the copper tube with an H-field probe made like this (https://youtu.be/2xy3Hm1_ZqI?t=352) and diameter as large as 70% of the inner diameter of the copper tube helix.
Sense the electric field outside the copper tube with a bare scope probe tip, possibly with a flake of metal foil attached to it for higher sensitivity.
Grenade Coil & Antenna Interactions
Just another guess (?)
Consider the last four or five pages of this thread:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg95922#msg95922
(note that many of my posts were removed from this thread but the idea/approach
can still be gleaned, at least to some extent)
Now consider the Magnetic (Lorentz) and Electric forces as shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C8mRW43X0Q&t=756s
{An increase in "v," gives an increase in "kinetic energy," which gives "more output"}
JMHO - remove as you wish...
SL
Quote from: solarlab on 2023.09.30, 03:18:06
(note that many of my posts were removed from this thread ...
Who removed them ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 20:56:10
Great!
Please do not connect the coax's shield to the copper tube, but earth-ground the copper tube.
The foil/box that shields the termination resistor, should not touch that resistor nor the coax's shield, but it should be connected (preferably by solder) to the copper tube.
Sense the magnetic field outside the copper tube with an H-field probe made like this (https://youtu.be/2xy3Hm1_ZqI?t=352) and diameter as large as 70% of the inner diameter of the copper tube helix.
Sense the electric field outside the copper tube with a bare scope probe tip, possibly with a flake of metal foil attached to it for higher sensitivity.
There is no coax cable inside the copper tube coil, just the inner conductor of a coax cable, so the copper tube acts as the coax shield.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.09.30, 09:14:45
There is no coax cable inside the copper tube coil, just the inner conductor of a coax cable, so the copper tube acts as the coax shield.j
Verpies,
This incorrect assumption, does this deviate in a mayor way from the objective as the outher coax shield is not there?
I understand your view, but for complete understanding this is in my opinion a mayor change we need to adtesss the impact,( no coax shield)
In other words is its grounding of the outher core ( copper tube) sufficient enough in order to approve a electricstatic impact?
As this is my assumption at the moment?
A mayor impact I see as a change from the core objective which could have crucial impact on the objective criteria.
A minor change I see as a non impact issue.
I'd like you ( verpies) to continue to monitor these aspects as you do now and I hope you could continue to be a source to take this impact process also into consideration as you are more factual orientated then I am.
Also I recommend Itsu which based on his test performance
Testing effort ( being a mayor contributor to this space in doing validational testing) as a member of this aproval/ validation process.
It will contribute to a better overall clear understanding and effectively separates the noise.
Ape, I agree with you but I cannot ask him to pull that wire out of the tube and replace it with thin 50Ω coax because it is very hard to put in something in a curved tube and he probably does not have such a thin coax anyway. Straightening that tube and bending it again would be a bitch and would probably brake it.
So this is too much to ask, especially that I do have a thin coax and can make new shielded coil easier than he can alter his. I just don't have a working DSRD nanopulser ATM because I blew it up.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.30, 22:30:16
Ape, I agree with you but I cannot ask him to pull that wire out of the tube and replace it with thin 50Ω coax because it is very hard to put in something in a curved tube and he probably does not have such a thin coax anyway. Straightening that tube and bending it again would be a bitch and would probably brake it.
So this is too much to ask, especially that I do have a thin coax and can make new shielded coil easier than he can alter his. I just don't have a working DSRD nanopulser ATM because I blew it up.
I would love to hear from Itsu if he has a substitute which could compare with the coax shield.
If not can we compare the results by just grounding the outher copper coil?
So your going to use some copper brake fluid tube as and aerial spiral around the grenade
I presume your going to use some coax inner installed in the tube and connect it to the far end of the tube like a hairpin? well yeah your building a great transmitter, I presume you do know how the device is supposed to work or do you ? have you noticed Ruslen doesn't build his like that, that's because there could well be an other way to do it.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
So your going to use some copper brake fluid tube
Yes. I did not buy it yet.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
as and aerial
No, as a shield.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
spiral around the grenade
No
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
I presume your going to use some inner coax installed in the tube
Yes
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
and connect it to the far end of the tube like a hairpin?
No
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
I presume you do know how the device is supposed to work or do you ?
We will see
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.01, 04:29:07
have you noticed Ruslen doesn't build his like that,
Yes. I do not work in monkey-see-monkey-do manner.
Instead, I make an educated guess about the operating principle and let it guide the build.
If it doesn't test as expected, I make up another plausible operating principle and repeat the whole process.
This experiment is only to better understand the behavior of coils wound with coaxial cables. I already wrote about that and you should know it, if you read Ape's and my words in this thread.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.30, 22:30:16
Ape, I agree with you but I cannot ask him to pull that wire out of the tube and replace it with thin 50Ω coax because it is very hard to put in something in a curved tube and he probably does not have such a thin coax anyway. Straightening that tube and bending it again would be a bitch and would probably brake it.
So this is too much to ask, especially that I do have a thin coax and can make new shielded coil easier than he can alter his. I just don't have a working DSRD nanopulser ATM because I blew it up.
verpies is right, this copper tube has such a small inner diameter that only the inner conductor of a piece of RG-316 coax fits into it, see picture (sorry for it being blur).
One needs a very thin piece of coax to be able to fit it inside, or use some copper tubing with a wider diameter.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.01, 09:26:48
verpies is right, this copper tube has such a small inner diameter that only the inner conductor of a piece of RG-316 coax fits into it, see picture (sorry for it being blur).
One needs a very thin piece of coax to be able to fit it inside, or use some copper tubing with a wider diameter.
Itsu
In other words doing the by Verpies proposed test cant be executed in this way.
Is it an idea I purchase some copper 8mm outside 1mm layer thickness and send it to Itsu?
Or @Verpies do we have another test option with the same purpose?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.01, 11:04:50
Is it an idea I purchase some copper 8mm outside 1mm layer thickness and send it to Itsu?
If he was the last guy on Earth with a pulser and scope, then yes.
I am sure he can afford to buy the supplies himself, but this experiment is not his idea - it's mine.
I just asked him because he seemed to have almost everything ready for it. I wouldn't have, if I knew what I know now.
Most Copper water pipes are measured by internal diameter.
Itsu could buy a short length of either 8 mm or 10 mm bore soft Copper central heating tube from his local Plumbing Supply Company ( usually sold by the Metre ) I would recommend pulling the tube straight, annealing it and then pass the coaxial cable through before coiling it.
Does this become a 3 plate capacitor?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.01, 12:21:30
...annealing it...
To non metal workers that means heating it up with a propane torch to make it softer to bend. Propane torch will not melt it. OxyAc - will.
Copper stays softer even after cooling down, however it becomes hard again as it is cold-worked (e.g. hammered, bent, rolled, extruded) - this piece of trivia was not for you Grum.
I found some length of soft copper tubing with 6mm outside diameter and 4.5mm inside diameter which could house a piece of RG-316 coax (outer diameter 2.5mm).
I will order some length of this RG-316 coax and try to insert it into the tubing.
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.09.29, 20:56:10
Great!
Please do not connect the coax's shield to the copper tube, but earth-ground the copper tube.
The foil/box that shields the termination resistor, should not touch that resistor nor the coax's shield, but it should be connected (preferably by solder) to the copper tube.
Sense the magnetic field outside the copper tube with an H-field probe made like this (https://youtu.be/2xy3Hm1_ZqI?t=352) and diameter as large as 70% of the inner diameter of the copper tube helix.
Sense the electric field outside the copper tube with a bare scope probe tip, possibly with a flake of metal foil attached to it for higher sensitivity.
Hi Verpies,
As Itsu is preparing coming period the proposed 1st test, could you bring up in the mean time a direction of approaches as a 2nd step?
I think a lot of us including me want to know what the follow up approach would be. I understand we don't know the outcome yet, but maybe we could speculate already?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.01, 09:26:48
verpies is right, this copper tube has such a small inner diameter that only the inner conductor of a piece of RG-316 coax fits into it, see picture (sorry for it being blur).
One needs a very thin piece of coax to be able to fit it inside, or use some copper tubing with a wider diameter.
Itsu
Copper water pipe, it doesn't matter what diameter it is if it has a hole down the middle
its a short circuit turn, look at it this way your converting accelerated voltage to current it's the magnet down the copper pipe. So be aware there could be sparks (re one of Don Smith's vids example.
Sil
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.02, 11:46:52
...could you bring up in the mean time a direction of approaches as a 2nd step?
I think a lot of us including me want to know what the follow up approach would be. I understand we don't know the outcome yet, but maybe we could speculate already?
Later, I'd like to design ITC immune windings to generate magnetic fields like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49182)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49184)
This is easy to do with DC, as can be seen above, but to quickly switch between that field configuration and this one:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49186)
is not easy with two coils because of inductance and ITC.
Hopefully the windings wound with coaxial cable (driven asymmetrically) will mitigate the latter.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.02, 16:19:31
Later, I'd like to design ITC immune windings to generate magnetic fields like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49182)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49184)
This is easy to do with DC, as can be seen above, but to quickly switch between that field configuration and this one:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49186)
is not easy with two coils because of inductance and ITC.
Hopefully the windings wound with coaxial cable (driven asymmetrically) will mitigate the latter.
And for what purpose is this / wil this field be used?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.02, 16:35:30
And for what purpose is this / will this field be used?
To rapidly change the
direction of the magnetic flux in a small circular section of the ferrite (or metal) on which the coils are wound.
The photos above depict coils wound on a small ferrite rod, but I'd like to use something with larger diameter
* and since large ferrite rods are hard to come by, I probably will end up using a toroidal core sausage.
* to keep the frequencies sane.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.02, 16:39:57
To rapidly change the direction of the magnetic flux in a small circular section of the ferrite (or metal) on which the coils are wound.
The photos above depict coils wound on a small ferrite rod, but I'd like to use something with larger diameter* and since large ferrite rods are hard to come by, I probably will end up using a toroidal core sausage.
* to keep the frequencies sane.
Ok, I understand the field and the ferrite thing.
But, maybe I ask stupid questions this is I suppose not the last step?
You got the fields accomplished.. the ferrite is probably needed for storage of energy so can we assume air coils wont work?
You gonna add another coil or what is step 3?
As far as I see it it's the Tesla coil that excelorates voltage and current into a high voltage and high prequency.
so it's not about storage is it you need to get that excelerated energy into a lower usable voltage and current.
and a lower frequency like 50 hz or 60 or 100hz whatever. Simple, so how you going to do it ?
I think the problem is that grenade is a set of coils which imho were originally placed nearby. In grenade we don't see the original interactions of coils
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.02, 17:01:51
But, maybe I ask stupid questions this is I suppose not the last step?
No question is stupid. Correct, this is not the last step.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.02, 17:01:51
You got the fields accomplished.. the ferrite is probably needed for storage of energy so can we assume air coils wont work?
No, the ferrite is not for the storage of energy in the magnetic flux (as it occurs in e.g.: the flyback LOPT).
The ferrite has two important functions. One is increasing the magnetic flux density that occurs in the gap between the coils and focusing that flux.
The other has to do with spins and I will leave its explanation for later.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.02, 17:01:51
You gonna add another coil or what is step 3?
Yes, that would be the output coil. I expect short high current pulses out of it and there will need to be a filter to smooth out these pulses to a more convenient form of electric energy. That filter can take the form of an LCR circuit, which might mean another coil.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.02, 17:24:49
As far as I see it it's the Tesla coil that excelorates voltage and current into a high voltage and high prequency.
You could write that Tesla coil converts low voltage and high direct current into high voltage and low alternating current at high frequency.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.02, 17:24:49
so it's not about storage is it
No.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.02, 17:24:49
you need to get that excelerated energy into a lower usable voltage and current.
and a lower frequency like 50 hz or 60 or 100hz whatever.
Simple, so how you going to do it ?
Accelerated energy has another name, namely - power.
If and only if HV low AC is generated by the device inadvertently, I will have the problem of converting it to a more convenient form, such as LV high AC, but it absolutely makes no sense to use a Tesla Coil to purposely convert LV high DC to HV low AC in order to later convert it back down to LV high AC (which can be accomplished by using a Tesla Coil in reverse btw), ...unless there is some mandatory intermediate process which requires HV low AC.
Do you know of such process ?
Well what exactly is electricity ?
At 141mT flux density, the various metals need these frequencies to resonate :
Iron with 195kHz ( component of steel transformer cores and ferrites )
Gold with 106kHz
Tungsten with 250kHz
Silver with 279kHz
Titanium with 339kHz
Chromium with 339kHz
Zinc with 376kHz ( component of most soft ferrites )
Nickel with 536kHz ( component of fast soft ferrites )
Bismuth with 982kHz
Lead with 1.25MHz
Manganese with 1.49MHz ( component of slow soft ferrites )
Aluminum with 1.57MHz
Copper with 1.59MHz ( component of wires/windings )
Tin with 2.25MHz
Of course besides the low resonance frequency, also the susceptibility/abundance*, resistivity and skin-depth as well as the line-width factor, matter.
*In the list above, the names of the metals which are 100% susceptible to this resonance, are marked with the first letter as bold.
Also, Copper also has a second resonance frequency at this flux density equal to 1.71MHz
Oh yes it is ! just shoving another tesla coil on it brings you back where you started.
you need to un learn the BS ways and start a new, what is electricity?
Put it this way whats the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 09:04:34
Oh yes it is ! just shoving another tesla coil on it brings you back where you started.
That was my point exactly in the last paragraph of this post (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107623#msg107623), so why do you keep bringing it up? I have not even proposed using a Tesla Coil in this thread.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 09:04:34
you need to un learn the BS ways and start a new, what is electricity?
I answered that off-topic question yesterday in another thread.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 09:04:34
Put it this way whats the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?
I don't see how this is relevant to this topic. Ask it in another thread.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.03, 10:04:27
That was my point exactly in the last paragraph of this post (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107623#msg107623), so why do you keep bringing it up? I have not even proposed using a Tesla Coil in this thread.
I answered that off-topic question yesterday in another thread.
I don't see how this is relevant to this topic. Ask it in another thread.
This is the question your asking (Re: Grenade coil type systems ) means your searching to solve something!
So "I'm asking you "
Quote from: AlienGrey on Today at 10:04:34
Put it this way what's the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?
Quote >Ask it in another thread. ''why are you avoiding the question and the answer ?'' >>this is relevant to this topic. with out it
whats the point going any further. None
Fom an educational point of view ! Come on professor a relevant answer please.
The equasions of Maxwell and John H Poynting came up with his conservation of energy. might help
Sil
While waiting for the coax to be delivered i was experimenting with the slotted alu pipe inside the Grenade, but now using the full power of the yoke.
I have the pickup led from the Kacher / antenna signal as source (now using the FG to drive the led for more flexibility and because i hate what a Kacher can do to my equipment) via an optical fiber
to an optical receiver driving the "divide by 50" circuit.
Then this signal goes to the by verpies designed PLL / TL494 driver to drive an again designed by verpies lossless clamp yoke driver.
From the yoke via the 4 turns secondary coil through a 580nF series cap to the inductor (resonant at 25.2kHz without slotted pipe, 26.2kHz with).
Video of this test here: https://youtu.be/FwlqeMFDfJA
In the below screenshots i first have the Inductor signal (white) and the signal across the 25W load bulb on the Grenade (yellow):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49194;image)
Then the same signals, now with an UNGROUNDED slotted alu pipe inserted:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49196;image)
and finally the same signals, but now with the slotted alu pipe grounded:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49198;image)
So it looks like the slotted alu pipe has a negative influence on the signals on both the Inductor and the Grenade.
Itsu
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 12:17:10
...this is relevant to this topic.
I don't see the relevance, so I will not answer this question in this thread
in order not to pollute it with irrelevant discussion of general concepts like "what is electricity?", that can easily take up hundred of posts, ...but I will answer it in another thread so I am not avoiding the question.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 12:17:10
with out it whats the point going any further. None
You answered your own question. My answer would be the opposite.
If you want me to discuss it in this thread you must demonstrate how it is relevant. Until you do this - I will not answer it here.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.03, 12:54:47
So it looks like the slotted alu pipe has a negative influence on the signals on both the Inductor and the Grenade.
If you were building a transformer, than this would be a "negative influence" indeed, because of the smaller amplitude at its output with the Al pipe present.
However, this is
not a transformer - it is an energy generator and you need to subject the Al pipe to very specific magnetic environment for it to generate short high current pulses.
You should constantly monitor for the occurrence of such pulses while you are tuning the device - not for the highest amplitude of the sine wave at that which you have designated as the "output".
I noticed that the frequency of the current applied to these windings has stayed almost the same (it changed only by 1kHz).
In order to hunt for these short high current pulses in the Al pipe, you must subject that pipe to optimal magnetic bias and excitation (it is unknown if your setup does that) but also you need to monitor for these pulses with an H probe, while sweeping the excitation frequency, e.g from 10kHz to 1MHz over a long time period (your FG can do only 15min sweeps but SCPI can extend that).
This is difficult to do in your setup because you've made the windings (and their drivers) resonant and thus very frequency-selective, therefore they allow you to efficiently generate magnetic flux at that resonant frequency but anything outside of it is severely attenuated. This would be great if you already knew the optimal frequency for that Al pipe in that particular magnetic environment, but you don't and the present setup makes it very difficult for you to sweep for it and find it.
If you get lucky it will look like a spike superimposed on that sinewave.
Hi Verpies.
Could Itsu find these " high current pulses " by using a short length of slotted Aluminium tube placed between a couple of Microwave oven Magnetron magnets, a driver coil and pickup coil placed over the sample?
Cheers Grum.
Edit.
Hmmm, perhaps a daft question. I'm guessing the alternating magnetic field would rapidly demagnetise the Ceramic magnets at each end.... Electromagnets??
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.03, 15:53:54
Could Itsu find these " high current pulses " by using a short length of slotted Aluminium tube placed between a couple of Microwave oven Magnetron magnets, a driver coil and pickup coil placed over the sample?
Yes, but not only with magnets but with soft ferrite as well (see the diagram of the core) and the DC/LF bias coil to help the magnets.
It is not necessary to construct a pickup coil for the tests. These pulses are visible with a simple H probe constructed like this (https://youtu.be/2xy3Hm1_ZqI?t=352) in vicinity and connected to a scope in the "Normal mode" with the trigger level set high (so high that the sine waveforms that you feed into the entire setup do not trigger it) with 100ns/div timebase or faster.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.03, 15:53:54
Hmmm, perhaps a daft question. I'm guessing the alternating magnetic field would rapidly demagnetise the Ceramic magnets at each end.... Electromagnets??
If you wound the excitation coil directly over the magnets and were able to put kiloAmps through it, so the magnets coercivity became overcome - then yes.
But creating these types of currents directly over the magnets is neither planned nor supported by the circuitry.
Thanks Verpies. O0
As you're probably very aware the term " Aluminium " is quite generic, there's a myriad of alloys and presumably each would have its own " unique " signature? The same goes for Brass too.... ;)
It would however, be interesting to see these spikes that you mentioned earlier on though.
Cheers Grum.
Itsu that was a great test, thanks for sharing. Now you have that test and you have all the items to hand
can i ask you to try something else in the test?
1 can you try adding if you have a ferrite rod you can insert into the tube and noting any difference
2 try removing the tube and just try it with the ferrite rod
3 try putting an extension wire from the Tesla output down the center of the tube but insulate it first and make sure the grenade has a load
4 with out the aloy tube and note any differance in any of the tests
many thanks and hope you find favorable results
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 18:52:29
Itsu that was a great test, thanks for sharing. Now you have that test and you have all the items to hand
can i ask you to try something else in the test?
1 can you try adding if you have a ferrite rod you can insert into the tube and noting any difference
2 try removing the tube and just try it with the ferrite rod
3 try putting an extension wire from the Tesla output down the center of the tube but insulate it first and make sure the grenade has a load
4 with out the aloy tube and note any differance in any of the tests
many thanks and hope you find favorable results
Sil
Copper tubes with a cut and ferrites with kachers from my video went. ;D The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
The naive Akula saw free energy in this)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1InK_sYW6JE
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.03, 19:11:34
The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
What is "phytonite" ?
It was funny to watch. The lamp is on, the Kacher works more efficiently and consumption decreases!!! :D
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.03, 19:20:27
What is "phytonite" ?
Google translates it like this: sparkle
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.03, 19:11:34
Copper tubes with a cut and ferrites with kachers from my video went. ;D The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
The naive Akula saw free energy in this)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1InK_sYW6JE
Thats going back about 10 years I made it from your film it was exelent my pals at work were impresef ;)
where is the rest of the film ? I dont have it now and jast time i saw it it was in bits from guys copying it. i'm not working at the same place
so no idea where it is now.
Sil
A piece of copper pipe with a cut, the effect was on it. Aluminum didn't work. But on the advice of the Tiger (Vitaly), I heated the pipe itself on gas and dipped it in wine vinegar so that there were oxides on it. 8) And yes, ferrite, it helps a lot in the tube!
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.03, 17:54:26
As you're probably very aware the term " Aluminium " is quite generic, there's a myriad of alloys and presumably each would have its own " unique " signature? The same goes for Brass too.... ;)
Very true.
I'd like to add that it is possible to use Zn/Fe ferrite in lieu of the metal ring.
The fact that in the video I first touch the hot end of the Kacher, and then the tube and the lamp lights up - this effect was accidental.
My kacher is small and low-powered. Consumed less than 100mA when powered at 12 volts.
Yes, the lamp was on and consumption dropped even more. As can be seen in the video, Kacher's power increased when the lamp was connected.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.03, 19:26:07
I heated the pipe itself on gas and dipped it in wine vinegar...
If you were a real Russian, you would dip it in vodka.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.03, 19:31:56
If you were a real Russian, you would dip it in vodka.
The whole point was to obtain an oxide so that the tube would not conduct current. There was a video where I disassembled this entire structure and explained and showed its resistance with a multimeter. Perhaps it was a very small capacity....
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.03, 19:33:34
The whole point was to obtain an oxide so that the tube would not conduct current. There was a video where I disassembled this entire structure and explained and showed its resistance with a multimeter. Perhaps it was a very small capacity....
Have you got a pointer to that little treat 'video' :)
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.03, 19:54:38
Have you got a pointer to that little treat 'video' :)
Sil
No. My archive has long been lost with past experiences.
The Internet remembers something...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5tM8KEoUtE
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.03, 15:04:22
If you were building a transformer, than this would be a "negative influence" indeed, because of the smaller amplitude at its output with the Al pipe present.
However, this is not a transformer - it is an energy generator and you need to subject the Al pipe to very specific magnetic environment for it to generate short high current pulses.
You should constantly monitor for the occurrence of such pulses while you are tuning the device - not for the highest amplitude of the sine wave at that which you have designated as the "output".
I noticed that the frequency of the current applied to these windings has stayed almost the same (it changed only by 1kHz).
In order to hunt for these short high current pulses in the Al pipe, you must subject that pipe to optimal magnetic bias and excitation (it is unknown if your setup does that) but also you need to monitor for these pulses with an H probe, while sweeping the excitation frequency, e.g from 10kHz to 1MHz over a long time period (your FG can do only 15min sweeps but SCPI can extend that).
This is difficult to do in your setup because you've made the windings (and their drivers) resonant and thus very frequency-selective, therefore they allow you to efficiently generate magnetic flux at that resonant frequency but anything outside of it is severely attenuated. This would be great if you already knew the optimal frequency for that Al pipe in that particular magnetic environment, but you don't and the present setup makes it very difficult for you to sweep for it and find it.
If you get lucky it will look like a spike superimposed on that sinewave.
Ok, i understand that my setup is not the correct setup for testing this slotted alu pipe and that the tests i did were not very useful.
But it showed me that my present setup is working as expected (632Vpp / 51App at the Inductor while the driving MOSFETs stay cool without a heat sink) although the output at the Grenade (without the slotted pipe) was not that great.
So for testing this alu pipe for these "short high current pulses" a new setup should be provided.
The below drawing seems to show such setup, but there are some practical differences like the length of the alu pipe i have being 27cm instead of the guesstimated 2cm in that drawing.
Would cutting a 2cm piece of my pipe and use that in that setup be an option?
Also finding the correct diameter Soft ferrite rings and nonconductive ring magnets would be a challenge.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.03, 20:19:22
...it showed me that my present setup is working as expected (632Vpp / 51App at the Inductor while the driving MOSFETs stay cool without a heat sink)
Indeed
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.03, 20:19:22
Would cutting a 2cm piece of my pipe and use that in that setup be an option?
I'd use the same length as the length of one of the soft ferrite rings.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.03, 20:19:22
Also finding the correct diameter Soft ferrite rings and nonconductive ring magnets would be a challenge.
They do not need to be exactly the same diameter - magnets can be slightly larger than ferrite and the metal ring can be slightly smaller.
Large diameter ferrite is better, because it keeps the frequencies lower.
AlienGrey,then many theories were built about what it was.
My opinion is the conversion of high-frequency and high voltage into a magnetic field, through ferrite, and the magnetic field induced a high-frequency current into the copper tube. The lamp was burning due to HF current into the ground.
I invented the Kacher transformer)))
The fact is that all devices with Kacher do not have an efficiency greater than 1. This is a tricky transformer with an efficiency < 1
The fact that no tricky coil grenades will help. Shark installations cannot work....
This is all fake.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.03, 20:44:42
The fact that no tricky coil grenades will help. Shark installations cannot work....
This is all fake.
Is Kapanadze's device fake, too ?
Who said that a kacher circuit or the push pull circuits needs to be OU by themselves. I don't think that any of these circuits are more out than in, IF they don't access an additional source of energy, such as the surrounding ambient energy fields.
Water can be made from the air, so can electric power. Even if we don't know how. Not anyone's fault.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.03, 22:41:02
I don't think that any of these circuits are more out than in, IF they don't access an additional source of energy, such as the surrounding ambient energy fields.
Do you mean air or Earth's electric field gradient between different altitudes or its magnetic field or its gravitational field or the solar radiation ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.03, 22:41:02
Water can be made from the air, so can electric power.
No, water cannot be made from air because air lacks hydrogen in the troposphere but water can be extracted from air although only at a great energetic cost (usually provided by the sun or compressed hydrofluorocarbons).
Can components of air be converted to energy? The answer to this is "yes" at least theoretically because air is mass and e=mc
2.
Other than that, air in the troposphere is pressurized and contains some thermal energy, that causes wind, convection and precipitation and minuscule amount of ions from thunderstorms and solar wind and some exotic particles initiated by the cosmic radiation. Human race already
extracts some of this energy, but it is not even remotely plausible that the Grenade devices do that in closed rooms.
So, energy from air and sun is at least possible but energy from vacuum is not.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.03, 22:41:02
Even if we don't know how. Not anyone's fault.
True but ignoring the known body of knowledge to the contrary - is.
Yet, I make water from the air, daily, even right now, as we post So, yes. And wrong answer, once more.
Point being, making useable electric power from the ambient. As Tesla and Kapanadze had mentioned.
But Delamorto says it's just fakes, except for the resonator. So, I hope to see how well that resonator works, or is that too much to ask?
The video looks like a Woppyjump split copper tube replication to me. Is he suggesting that it's OU, as it can't obviously self run?
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.04, 01:42:16
Yet, I make water from the air, daily, even right now, as we post
Do you make it or extract the water which is already present in the air ?
About Kapanadze, I named one device that raises doubts - this is what Wesley filmed. And that's because Kapanadze couldn't put it together; he was lying in bed.The device was not assembled by him.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 07:27:25
About Kapanadze, I named one device that raises doubts - this is what Wesley filmed. And that's because Kapanadze couldn't put it together; he was lying in bed.The device was not assembled by him.
In other words, the device which was filmed by Wesley was fake.
Were other devices built by Kapanadze fake, too?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 07:35:48
In other words, the device which was filmed by Wesley was fake.
Were other devices built by Kapanadze fake, too?
I'm not 100% sure about the device that Wesley ..... My personal opinion, based on start and work.
Other Kapanadze installations were checked by specialists. They worked.
As for the Akula and his installation, it's 100% fake. Accordingly, all his followers are also 100% fake!
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 11:19:56
Other Kapanadze installations were checked by specialists. They worked.
As for the Akula and his installation, it's 100% fake.
So in your opinion Kapanadze's devices work except the one filmed by Wesley.
Akula's devices are fake.
What about Dally's devices (note: he made his before Akula started) ?
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 07:27:25
About Kapanadze, I named one device that raises doubts - this is what Wesley filmed. And that's because Kapanadze couldn't put it together; he was lying in bed.The device was not assembled by him.
I suspect that possibly none of the shown devices were made by him.
That does not mean that those devices did not work. In front of several people watching and testing.
Thanks for clarifying that for us.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.04, 13:12:21
I suspect that possibly none of the shown devices were made by him.
That does not mean that those devices did not work. In front of several people watching and testing.
Thanks for clarifying that for us.
NickZ
Some electronic circuits were not assembled (soldered) by Kapanadze - this is a fact. It's also a fact that he was the only one who made the resonator for the primary and secondary coils. Information from his mouth.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 11:57:58
So in your opinion Kapanadze's devices work except the one filmed by Wesley.
Akula's devices are fake.
What about Dally's devices (note: he made his before Akula started) ?
All these are wild fantasies on the theme of a free energy generator!
You are like children, you believe everything that is cleverly shown ;D
Imagine that a certain company has approached you with a request to make a fake free energy installation for good money. You refused, you are not interested. After some time, a video comes out with a supposedly working installation; in the video you see those people who contacted you earlier. Coincidence?!
This video is broadcast by all our and foreign forums - this is the discovery.... Everyone begins to frantically draw diagrams and assemble them, and I quietly laugh! ;D
The main question to ask is who needed this and what were the benefits?
Well, as the finale of this story, the truth was revealed, there was a scandal... they found a hidden source - a battery! Only now no one will return the money spent on the performance....
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 04:56:48
Do you make it or extract the water which is already present in the air ?
Verpies: I believe that water is made by extracting it from our humid air. But, I am not sure. Nor pertinent here.
The main point is extracting electric energy from the ambient. Again not sure if from the air or from non material source.
I would think that they are cosmic energy sources, found everywhere, such as the Aether, which Tesla mentions, and not from the air.
I am here to learn, and verify. Not making claims, beforehand.
I am concerned more about if any of the shown devices are not working as shown, not if the inventor is a fake, or not.Yet, it's all important to know. That is why I replicate to verify when possible. But we may not have all the proper not hidden info about any of it, as yet.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.04, 13:33:28
Verpies: I believe that water is made by extracting it from our humid air. But, I am not sure. Nor pertinent here.
The main point is extracting electric energy from the ambient. Again not sure if from the air or from non material source.
I would think that they are cosmic energy sources, found everywhere, such as the Aether, which Tesla mentions, and not from the air.
I am here to learn, and verify. Not making claims, beforehand.
I am concerned more about if any of the shown devices are not working as shown, not if the inventor is a fake, or not.Yet, it's all important to know. That is why I replicate to verify when possible. But we may not have all the proper not hidden info about any of it, as yet.
NickZ
You can't have it! You didn't run around in these circles whose schemes you are trying to repeat!
Stop being naive and use your head!
p|s Installations for obtaining water from the air have long been used by African tribes... is this also news?!
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.04, 13:33:28
The main point is extracting electric energy from the ambient. Again not sure if from the air or from non material source.
Why doesn't this ambient energy fry us ?
your asking is the Dally device fake, the thing is if it's not where does the extra energy come fromwhen its just not known how it's supposed to work or how does it pull in charged electrons from the environment ?
And if i have an oscillator tuned to a resonance with a wires length, how does it generate energy or is that BS as well. It all comes back to what is the proverbial really ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 14:49:06
Why doesn't this ambient energy fry us ?
Uranium would do just that.
What do you mean from the environment?! How is the device connected to the environment by wires? After all, this is how we remove current from the wires? The statement itself from the environment looks very vague. Are we receiving a radio signal? Then where is the antenna? Kapanadze has a grounding wire - does the earth give out energy to the wire?
Its not me asking but try transmitting and then receiving on the same frequency you should work on that principle
Sorry about spelling cat ran over keyboard and knocked off display ect
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.04, 18:44:33
Iyts not me asking but try tr++++transmitting and then receiving on the same frequency you should work
It turns out to be a walkie-talkie, not an energy receiver)))
chat gpt at least ask ;D
Imho Ground is giving electrons like in Tesla radiant energy patent; in that patent the secret was capacitor kind and unipolar radio waves. Just my humble opinion....
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 16:50:42
What do you mean from the environment?! How is the device connected to the environment by wires? After all, this is how we remove current from the wires? Are we receiving a radio signal? Then where is the antenna?
Good questions but he will not give you an answer about any of these details.
The most I expect is that he will say that a part of the Grenade is an antenna.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 16:50:42
The statement itself from the environment looks very vague.
You're not kidding!
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 16:50:42
Kapanadze has a grounding wire - does the earth give out energy to the wire?
That is a better hypothesis than energy from air or from Earth's electric, magnetic or gravitational fields or muons or rare cosmic particles or solar wind.
But there is no proposed mechanism that would generate a
net flow of electrons from that grounding wire or into it.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.04, 16:50:28
Uranium would do just that.
Irrelevant. None of the Grenade type devices were "connected" to Uranium deposits and I am sure Nick proposition of the "energy from the ambient" did not include Uranium because that mere sound of that word would make him run screaming into the night.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 13:21:11
All these are wild fantasies on the theme of a free energy generator!
Does that mean that in your opinion the Dally's device is fake, too ?
Just answer "yes" or "no" and don't worry, I will not ask you to justify your opinion and I will not discuss it with you further.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 19:57:42
Does that mean that in your opinion the Dally's device is fake, too ?
Just answer "yes" or "no" and don't worry, I will not ask you to justify your opinion and I will not discuss it with you further.
I already said - everything is fake! Where is the numerous repetition of his scheme by other people? No....my answer is fake!
Grounding is a drain of charges, its essence is this. This is zero, it cannot give anything, but it can reflect an electromagnetic wave if it is high-frequency.
Kapanadze made a mobile installation, low power. This means grounding is not the main condition here!
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 20:34:31
I already said - everything is fake! Where is the numerous repetition of his scheme by other people? No....my answer is fake!
OK, so in your opinion all of these Grenade type devices made by Akula, Stalker, Ruslan and Dally are fake and the ones made by Kapanadze are not (the one filmed by Wesley was not made by Kapanadze).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 20:37:57
OK, so in your opinion all of these Grenade type devices made by Akula, Stalker, Ruslan and Dally are fake and the ones made by Kapanadze are not (the one filmed by Wesley was not made by Kapanadze).
When Kapanadze came to the Turks, they took him to the island to test the generator away from any energy sources.
The generator was working.
Без сомнения- Капанадзе
единственный который получает стабильно киловаты в любом месте планеты.
Moreover, for greater power it needs grounding. It is the key to his current amplifier. According to him, only the second circuit needs grounding.
We need to compare his words, what we see and what is written in the patent. Choose a direction and dig in that direction, without being distracted by all sorts of useless grenades.
I am inclined to believe that there is an oscillatory circuit in its installation. It is for this that grounding is required. I did a simple experiment where I rocked the circuit a little and connected a lamp to it through grounding. I'll show you the video now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7po1lFs4zBw
In the video, the white one is the oscillatory circuit.
It is not connected anywhere and just sits on a flat coil.
But it contains a ferrite rod for magnetic coupling.
Remember how in the Aquarium video, Kapanadze pointed his finger at the coils and said, "This is an independent coil, positioned so that it is affected by the electromagnetic field from another coil."
Not dependent means not connected anywhere to the circuit. But somehow they remove as much current from it as needed.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 07:27:25
About Kapanadze, I named one device that raises doubts - this is what Wesley filmed.
And what is your opinion of this Kapanadze's device, real or fake ?:
https://youtu.be/7JQSyQAVqzc
https://youtu.be/Z4HCPrB-KB0
https://youtu.be/_BJnrlUbb58
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 20:52:24
And what is your opinion of this Kapanadze's device, real or fake ?:
https://youtu.be/Z4HCPrB-KB0
https://youtu.be/_BJnrlUbb58
No it's not fake. Kapanadze just started with mechanical installations, his very first installation was huge and lit 1 car light bulb. It was thanks to her that he got on television and became famous.
https://vimeo.com/29154217
I don't think that question is about Tariel's mechanical monster.
But, I think that I get your point. Being, that you don't know, IF, any of his later devices were fakes, or not.
Maybe just one earlier device, which someone else may have made.
By the way, how is your "resonator coil" going? Perhaps you can show what it can actually do.
NickZ
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 20:56:47
No it's not fake. Kapanadze just started with mechanical installations, his very first installation was huge and lit 1 car light bulb. It was thanks to her that he got on television and became famous.
https://vimeo.com/29154217
Do we know anyone who speaks Georgian and can transcribe this video ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 22:05:20
Do we know anyone who speaks Georgian and can transcribe this video ?
Ask Wesley
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.04, 20:56:47
Kapanadze just started with mechanical installations, his very first installation was huge and lit 1 car light bulb.
Which one, do you think, is more probable ?:
- 1) He came up with 2 completely different operating principles (one for his electromechanical devices and one for his solid-state devices).
- 2) He came up with 1 operating principle for his electromechanical devices first and latter he applied it to build his solid-state devices.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 06:56:40
Which one, do you think, is more probable ?:
- 1) He came up with 2 completely different operating principles (one for his electromechanical devices and one for his solid-state devices).
- 2) He came up with 1 operating principle for his electromechanical devices first and latter he applied it to build his solid-state devices.
The mechanical one was the first, he then figured out how to make an electronic version. In the video with the first installation, he talks about this in Georgian. Then he said that it was more difficult for him to make an electronic version than a mechanical one. As I understand it, he has many principles. Both electronic devices and mechanical ones.
His generators appeared due to systematic problems in the 90s with electricity in Georgia. Naturally, there were no forums or even the Internet at that time. But the first installations were already under the USSR. Just like fun))))
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.04, 21:45:55
I don't think that question is about Tariel's mechanical monster.
But, I think that I get your point. Being, that you don't know, IF, any of his later devices were fakes, or not.
Maybe just one earlier device, which someone else may have made.
By the way, how is your "resonator coil" going? Perhaps you can show what it can actually do.
NickZ
Пока мне нечего показать. Я пробую разные варианты....но безуспешно.
Quote from: DELAMORTO on 2023.10.05, 08:17:45
As I understand it, he has many principles. Both electronic devices and mechanical ones.
Unrelated ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 08:33:00
Unrelated ?
I think no.
There was a conversation on Skype with Kapanadze a long time ago, they asked about the principle, he said, "Well, you know about the support rod(тяга)" and when asked what was in the bank, he said, "High voltage source and something else." The questions were direct from his sponsor, the answers were also direct. How to understand them is up to you to decide.
" Опорная тяга " - то что касается заземления. Наверно затягивалось что то через заземление...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk
related, watch the sequence
So Mr forest whats static on it's own got to do with it ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.04, 19:42:14
Good questions but he will not give you an answer about any of these details.
The most I expect is that he will say that a part of the Grenade is an antenna.
You're not kidding!
That is a better hypothesis than energy from air or from Earth's electric, magnetic or gravitational fields or muons or rare cosmic particles or solar wind.
But there is no proposed mechanism that would generate a net flow of electrons from that grounding wire or into it.
this stupidity and naivety amuses me (whats a 'muons' ?) electrons are stuck in there environment bit of wire)
so how do they jump across the gap from the Tesla coil into grenade and then get canceled out in the bifilar loop back winding
come on this is different way of thinking. so does a ferrite rod conduct electricity.
More to the point what were Itsu's findings in the tests I asked him to do, we might find the results interesting !
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.05, 10:45:17
related, watch the sequence
That is all true but incomplete.
Moving that charged rod takes mechanical energy.
Moving that grounding contact takes mechanical energy, too.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 12:42:02
That is all true but incomplete.
Moving that charged rod takes mechanical energy.
Moving that grounding contact takes mechanical energy, too.
does it? on tests a Tesla coil was pumped through the grenade and output to some LEd's through some caps and wire length
barley lit a small Led bulb after connecting an earth through a length of more wire to the leg of the light bulb
the bulb went very bright and burnt out and the wingdings started to smell, It didn't have that out side spiral coil like in
vids from youtube instead i fed the EHT cable down the center of the tube >:-) explain that.
I have now dissembled that test lash up for safety reasons slung the damaged coil now the bin men have it. >:-)
So much for educational tests.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 13:14:16
does it?
Yes, due to electrostatic attraction and repulsion.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 13:14:16
...barley lit a small LED bulb, after connecting an earth through a length of more wire to the leg of the light bulb the bulb went very bright and burnt out and the wingdings started to smell,
So you connected a counterpoise and decreased the VSWR which changed the power transfer efficiency.
Tuned transformers are old news, they transfer energy from their input to output, better or worse, depending how they are tuned.
RF is not intuitive. Hams do it every day.
What was the input power to the Tesla Coil anyway ?
When i do tests I like to limit the current with a device i made that way I don't end ip with a load of bin fodder.
so less than an amp MA in fact.
Verpies
Theory is simple for me. Tesla coil with unipolar radio waves output is analogy to charged rod. Electroscope is single plate of capacitor, ground is source of electrons and we use second plate of capacitor in discharging stage..Charge induced into one plate of capacitor make it charged negatively.Next discharge to load , with respect to ground if we need to return back electrons, in other case we unbalance ground (make it positively charged after a while.)
.It is really that simple. So simple you would laugh. Tesla radiant energy patent with common today electronics. Avramenko plug. The secret in Tesla patent was probably using special Tesla coil and special capacitor so the processs was done without current electronics, or maybe even he patented it after being able to use vacuum tubes in process. (Remember Tesla Pierce Arrow ?)
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.05, 14:06:49
Theory is simple for me. Tesla coil with unipolar radio waves output is an analogy to a charged rod. Electroscope is the single plate of a capacitor, ground is the source of electrons and we use the second plate of the capacitor in discharging stage. Charge induced into one plate of capacitor makes it charged negatively. Next discharge to load with respect to ground, if we need to return back electrons, in other case we unbalance the ground (make it positively charged after a while.)
Well, it is worth discussing. You are proposing iteratively charging a plate by electrostatic induction and discharging to ground by conduction. At least you are defining what carries the charges and when & where these charges are moving.
Just remember that charge alone is
not energy.
Charging something by induction does not transfer the charge carriers.
Charging something by conduction - does.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 14:10:44
Well, it is worth discussing. You are proposing iteratively charging a plate by electrostatic induction and discharging to ground by conduction. At least you are defining what carries the charges and when & where these charges are moving.
Just remember that charge alone is not energy.
All: nor is there free energy in those ideas. If you think so, please show it doing so. Not just wasting it, by connecting it to ground. Perhaps I misunderstand.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 14:31:27
Charging something by induction does not transfer the charge carriers.
Charging something by conduction - does.
Can you remind me how induction hob work, please ?
Well thanks for that Verpies who said any thing about electrical charge
So when you cook your tea at night what sort of hot plate do you use ?
Sil
Если брать тему насоса зарядов из окружающей среды- то вот простое видео, где все понятно.....какие будут коментарии? ;D
If we take the topic of the charge pump from the environment, then here is a simple video where everything is clear.....what will be the comments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edfdMazzE-Y
It turns out that you can get energy from the air by charging the plates (capacity) and moving them apart. Charges from the air will rush to fill the space, and when the plates are compressed, they are simply squeezed out of the container - like water!
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 16:41:35
Well thanks for that Verpies who said any thing about electrical charge
Forest did in this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107902#msg107902) and this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107917#msg107917) post.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 16:41:35
So when you cook your tea at night what sort of hot plate do you use ?
Resistive.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.05, 16:38:48
Can you remind me how induction hob works, please ?
Magnetic induction Hob works by inducing high frequency eddy currents in conductive materials with HF magnetic fields and heating them with these currents due to i
2R Joule heating.
Electrostatic induction is different and it works like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk).
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 16:41:35
Well thanks for that Verpies who said any thing about electrical charge
So when you cook your tea at night what sort of hot plate do you use ?
Sil
Yeah, if Biden gets his way, no more gas ranges, to cook or heat your Tea, and warm or cool your house.
Just diesel generators, to charge millions of new electric cars, electric hot water showers, street lights and such.
Where will all that extra juice come from? More nuclear plants...As he shuts down the pipelines.
Trust your governments, they work for you...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.05, 18:02:39
Where will all that extra juice come from? More nuclear plants...As he shuts down the pipelines.
Nah, they will just release the payloads inside the lipid nanoparticles and kill so many people that there will be plenty of energy left for the remaining ones.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 17:10:52
Magnetic induction Hob works by inducing high frequency eddy currents in conductive materials with HF magnetic fields and heating them with these currents due to i2R Joule heating.
Electrostatic induction is different and it works like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk).
Thank you verpies, for me is enough this explanation.
Now, on topic, i am really curious if anyone believe that just magnifying than demagnifying some electricity will yield more electricity ? If not, what is the source for a possible gain ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.05, 17:10:52
Magnetic induction Hob works by inducing high frequency eddy currents in conductive materials with HF magnetic fields and heating them with these currents due to i2R Joule heating.
Electrostatic induction is different and it works like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk).
I'd like to join this conversation. Attached picture is that process.
Can we create this or these into a grenade coil as a reciever.
Introducing the "glow discharge" conditions?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.05, 18:44:24
Introducing the "glow discharge" conditions?
Glow discharge is counterproductive to electrostatic induction because it involves the transfer of charge carriers (air ions, electrons, etc...). Such transfer is more akin to conduction charging than electrostatic induction. To paraphrase Bearden - conduction "kills the dipole".
Electrostatic induction occurs even in vacuum and without thermionic or photoelectric electron emission ...and it doesn't "kill the dipole".
Remember - Forest is proposing cyclically charging a plate by electrostatic induction and discharging to ground by conduction.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 12:16:47
this stupidity and naivety amuses me (whats a 'muons' ?)
Muon is a heavy electron. 207x heavier .
Muons exist in the "ambient" that Nick has mentioned so I have to account for them in its analysis although I do not think that they are carriers of significant energy and useful for any kind of meaningful energy extraction from the environment. Even slightest wind carries a lot more energy than muons in the environment.
"Energy from the ambient" is not my idea, whatever it means.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.05, 18:14:39
Thank you verpies, for me is enough this explanation.
Now, on topic, i am really curious if anyone believe that just magnifying than demagnifying some electricity will yield more electricity ? If not, what is the source for a possible gain ?
Well, so far magnifiying then demagnefing is not all that may be happening here. But, I get what you are trying to say.
And in some ways you may be right.
My suggestion is that without an additional source of energy, you will only get back, what you've provided for, minus the loses. So, if I mention the surrounding Aether, as the possible additional source, some guys go ding bat. So, I won't mention it.
Yet, the push pull circuits are the magnetic component of the non shocking grenade/yoke induction circuits. Mine with no load can reach almost a thousand volts. My Kacher any where from 5000v to 10000v.
The HV kacher circuit is there to interupt that magnetic circuit, as I understand it. Not by adding anything to it. But, by interruption of that powerfull induction circuit's flux, instead. How the gain mechanism works, I still am working on that part of it. Supposedly by shocking the surrounding ambient, to harvest additional energy therefrom.
I have not tried to replicate any of the Kapanadze devices, as they are still an unknown and unsolved secret mystery.
You asked and I answered.
Don't attack the messenger, please.
NickZ
Another thing that I'd like to say is, Itsu and others have had their sensitive instruments fried by HV kachers pulses.
Yet, without those dangerous pulses, these devices won't work. At least not in providing any additional energy at the output. That is my opinion, and I am sticking with it, until disproved. That is not a claim, but an opinion instead. One that I am still working on to understand, and see working.
NickZ
HV pulses are the only way to quickly increase the current flowing through inductors ...and consequently, to create a pulse of magnetic field with a short rise time.
As HV HF pulses which can destroy test equipment are possibly what is needed, to interact with the surrounding ambient fields. I also think that it is this interaction that is not working properly, so far.
Why? Is my question. What more is needed, what is missing there?
That is what Verpies can help with, AG. If he wants to look outside the conventional box. And work with me on this aspect, to observe and verify results. As these are not just Nick's wild ideas. I would love to see him build these circuits up, instead of arguing with me. Wishfully thinking,
I guess...
NickZ
Nick look up the Don Smith's Dipole Magnetic Generator you might find it on one of the Above over unity sites
There was also a white paper on an eternal flash light that went into grave detail on how the idea actuly worked
if you can find anything left in history some one went to a lot of trouble destroying JPG files with virus's over the years.
Sil
About electrostatic induction of one plate of capacitor : the missing piece is how to create "positively charged moving rod" by using TEsla coil or kacher. I propose this is done exactly like is done in nature charging clouds
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.06, 04:30:11
About electrostatic induction of one plate of capacitor : the missing piece is how to create "positively charged moving rod" by using TEsla coil or kacher. I propose this is done exactly like is done in nature charging clouds
There is some truth here, static electricity won't do anything apart from discharging, same for a static magnetic field (permanent magnets). Not much power in any of them stand alone.
Can we consider earth have an electric potential ? What is this potential's main characteristic ? Maybe a quick look at first page on some quotes on parametric charge by partzman might be useful for a combination.
All this systems have in their components 1.a diode (in any form), 2.an capacitor (in any form), 3.an oscillator/pulse generator (in any form) and i can observe that your "grenade" coil looks pretty close to "Tesla diode arrangement" where top load is replaced by a third coil but i'm not sure what you want to do with it.
May I suggest to change "grenade" with something else ? Grenade suggest an explosive device and will attract a lot of attention for a generation system supposed to power our houses/vehicles, not destruction.
Later edit: i just find out that partzman thread
parametric charging have been moved to most promising FE
It seems that i am not able to find in that thread a quote that catches my attention but I managed to save it and i will post below
QuoteThe effects of voltage magnification are particularly useful as they can provide magnification of AC signal voltages using only passive components, i.e. without the need for any external power supply.
In some cases voltage magnification can also be a dangerous property. in high voltage mains (line) operated equipment containing inductance and capacitance, care must be taken during design to ensure that the circuit does not resonate at frequencies too close to that of the mains (line) supply. If that should happen, extremely high reactive voltages could be generated within the equipment, with disastrous consequences for the circuit and/or the user.
This dangerous property has been experienced by Joel Lagace in his latest discovery QEG and one can read on his forum.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.05, 22:52:39
Nick look up the Don Smith's Dipole Magnetic Generator you might find it on one of the Above over unity sites
There was also a white paper on an eternal flash light that went into grave detail on how the idea actuly worked
if you can find anything left in history some one went to a lot of trouble destroying JPG files with virus's over the years.
Sil
Dear Mr Grey.
I think I may have asked you about this particular Don Smith arrangement before? Are you referring to the version using a Plasma tube as a replacement for the electromagnetic one?
Cheers Grum.
It sounds like your wnting to try out the plasma device he was talking about all those vids and pics he shows them with negativly polarised aloy foil
on the globe but I have seen one with a copper foil on as well as the alloy foil, have you tried that but don't short them out if they start to charge !
I haven't tried it but i have two of them here both different types one has the round globe missing and the other is a tear drop type but the
electronics is fried and they are not interchangable so cant help their.
Hers Sil
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.06, 04:30:11
About electrostatic induction of one plate of capacitor :
What about the other plate ?
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.06, 04:30:11
how to create "positively charged moving rod"
Without physically moving it, this is the usual way:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49276)
In this diagram, there should be an AC generator in place of R.
Of course all such charge separating devices are subject to three zones of operation: Reactive, Fresnel and Radiative. Creating a disturbance in the former affects the source, in the latter - does not.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.06, 10:43:30
Are you referring to the version using a Plasma tube as a replacement for the electromagnetic one?
This one?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=42085)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Linac_schematic_%28standing_wave%29.gif)
I prepared my Rg-360 coax inside a copper tube coil.
There is a 50 Ohm 1% induction free resistor inside the copper tape (isolated from this tape by some Scotch self bonding electrical tape).
Doing some pulse tests later tonight.
Below screenshot shows the pulse i will use.
Itsu
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.06, 14:52:19
No, this one....
No Ihavent had any thing like that for years and nothing that shape or size, some of that old stuff
is dangerous mercury vapour ect can eradiate a room in verry little time arn't all mod sites use to clear
hangers with them of vermin. have you tried J Berkin Linkon they use to get Ex WD stuff when I was devloping
stuff, all the rest of them have gone some Russky pedlers on the net might be able to help. or not!
think it needs mercury in it like forecent tube with heavey mercury content perhaps RS eprom eraser tube will do to test.
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.06, 14:34:00
This one?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=42085)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Linac_schematic_%28standing_wave%29.gif)
Or see attachment :D
Here the result of the 2 probes next to the copper tube coil with coax (tube grounded):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49287;image)
Green is the magnetic field picked up with a H field probe parallel to the side of the coil (50 Ohm scope setting)
Blue is the electric field picked up by a voltage probe with a piece of copper tape laying 2cm in front of the coil
Here the same, now with the tube ungrounded:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49289;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.06, 19:09:31
Here the result of the 2 probes next to the copper tube coil with coax (tube grounded):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49287;image)
Green is the magnetic field picked up with a H field probe parallel to the side of the coil (50 Ohm scope setting)
Blue is the electric field picked up by a voltage probe with a piece of copper tape laying 2cm in front of the coil.
Oh shit, so it is getting out despite the tube being grounded.
Perhaps through the driver's supply. Can you battery power it ? ...no, it requires 150V :(
But i can as i work with a 250V booster module for the HV.
But same results (grounded):
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.06, 19:51:16
But i can as i work with a 250V booster module for the HV.
Neat
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.06, 19:51:16
But same results (grounded):
Noooo, this starts to bother me.
So the last test to try is depicted below:
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.06, 17:47:54
No Ihavent had any thing like that for years and nothing that shape or size, some of that old stuff
is dangerous mercury vapour ect can eradiate a room in verry little time arn't all mod sites use to clear
hangers with them of vermin. have you tried J Berkett (the straghts) Lincon they use to get Ex WD stuff
when I was devloping stuff, also a tube like that will need some real power to drive it.
https://www.shoplincoln.co.uk/j-birkett
all the rest of them have gone some Russky pedlers on the net might be able to help. or not!
I think it needs mercury in it like forecent tube with heavey mercury content perhaps RS eprom eraser tube will do to test.
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.06, 23:35:43
Neat
Noooo, this starts to bother me.
So the last test to try is depicted below:
That would be more of a challenge to find a big enough tin box to accommodate the battery and nano-pulser.
I did find out that moving the probes away from the coil and nearer to the nano-pulser the amplitudes decreased, so it looks like the leakage comes from the coil.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.07, 08:23:49
That would be more of a challenge to find a big enough tin box to accommodate the battery and nano-pulser.
I know, that why I did not mention it before, but it provides an undebunkable argument that this is real and not a measurement error.
Perhaps you have a large solderable metal foil that can be wrapped around it. It doesn't have to be a neat box.
Meanwhile, i assembled this setup:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49303;image)
tailored after this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49297;image)
So what's next?
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.07, 08:31:44
I know, that why I did not mention it before, but it provides an undebunkable argument that this is real and not a measurement error.
Perhaps you have a large solderable metal foil that can be wrapped around it. It doesn't have to be a neat box.
Hi Guys.
I'm hoping that I've got the right idea of the experiment? Could a high ESR capacitor be used as the voltage source and a Reed switch used to trigger a single pulse? This wouldn't take up much space at all. The other alternative is to use heavy duty Aluminium kitchen foil to shield the apparatus.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.07, 11:24:40
Could a high ESR capacitor be used as the voltage source and a Reed switch used to trigger a single pulse?
Rather low ESR cap.
Yes, it would work but only for one pulse and the switch would not be able to generate a kV nanosecond pulse.
This would make measurements only single-shot and problematic.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.07, 11:24:40
Aluminium kitchen foil to shield the apparatus.
Aluminum is hard to solder. Tin foil would be better.
Even if you wrapped Al foil around the Batt & Gen, a good connection to that copper tube could not be guaranteed ...and that would open a path to debunking.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.07, 10:45:16
Meanwhile, i assembled this setup:
Gulp :o
So what are the dimensions and material of these soft cores and these magnets ?
Do you have any way to measure the magnetic flux density in the gap where the Al tube is ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.07, 11:45:11
Rather low ESR cap.
Yes, it would work but only for one pulse and the switch would not be able to generate a kV nanosecond pulse.
This would make measurements only single-shot and problematic.
Aluminum is hard to solder. Tin foil would be better.
Even if you wrapped Al foil around the Batt & Gen, a good connection to that copper tube could not be guaranteed ...and that would open a path to debunking.
Ok, Tin foil is very expensive however Copper foil is quite reasonable from China.
https://tinyurl.com/2k7ew3m9
Cheers Grum.
Soldering to aluminium is very easy when using this flux: https://soldersandfluxes.co.uk/product/tsc-alu-flux-aluminium-flux-150gm/
I have soldered copper wires to aluminium foil no problem, which I did when making homemade capacitors.
Using thick aluminium kitchen foil would be a lot more cost effective than procuring copper / tin foil.
Soldering aloy easy just put some mineral oil where your soldering scratch it so the oil can
get into the none oxidized scratch then solder it with ordinary solder, use to work on pistons
in an old bike when i was a kid !
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.07, 12:02:28
Gulp :o
So what are the dimensions and material of these soft cores and these magnets ?
Do you have any way to measure the magnetic flux density in the gap where the Al tube is ?
Good question about the soft core material, i don't know (anymore) as i bought them some 10 years ago.
Their dimensions are 5cm OD, 2.5cm ID and 3cm thick.
The magnets i salvaged from 2 magnetrons and are rather strong measuring 5.7cm OD, 2.5cm ID and 1.3cm thick.
The alu piece has an OD of 4.2cm and 3cm wide (3mm thick alu).
I only have a Hall sensor probe, not calibrated, but thinking of buying a Gauss meter like the WT10A (static magnetic fields only), so i will see what i can do.
Itsu
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.07, 15:05:31
Soldering aloy easy just put some mineral oil where your soldering scratch it so the oil can
get into the none oxidized scratch then solder it with ordinary solder, use to work on pistons
in an old bike when i was a kid !
Sil
I tried that without much success. It didn't work very well with foil in particular due to the fragile nature of it.
Does it have to be mineral oil, or any oil so as to prevent immediate oxidization after scratching the oxide layer off?
The oil has to be thin and not solidify when it's hot some thing like 3 on 1 you cant let the air get at it or it's game over, experiment, practice makes perfect.
Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.07, 15:13:23
Good question about the soft core material, i don't know (anymore) as i bought them some 10 years ago.
Their dimensions are 5cm OD, 2.5cm ID and 3cm thick.
...
Hi Itsu,
At least the permeability of the cores could be known by using a free software the Mini Ring Core Calculator (you may know about it): https://mini-ring-core-calculator.software.informer.com/ (https://mini-ring-core-calculator.software.informer.com/)
It has a built-in calculator in the Tools menu where it asks for the OD, ID and the thickness and asks for a measured inductance for a choosable number of turns on it.
I have this software installed and if you wish, just wind say 10 turns on a core and measure with an L meter its inductance perhaps at the lowest frequency the L meter is able to measure. Then we can get the permeability from the calculator, together with the A
L factor too.
Gyula
Thanks Gyula,
i did not have that calculator tool, but i downloaded it and got this result of my soft core:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49307;image)
Itsu
Okay, thanks. Here is one manufacturer, Fair-Rite with their 43 type material having a permeability of 800, very close to your core: https://fair-rite.com/43-material-data-sheet/ (https://fair-rite.com/43-material-data-sheet/)
Here is another 43 material specs (u=850): https://www.cwsbytemark.com/CatalogSheets/Ferrite_datasheet_oct06/FR_MATL.pdf (https://www.cwsbytemark.com/CatalogSheets/Ferrite_datasheet_oct06/FR_MATL.pdf)
I think your core is made of this 43 material...
Gyula
TDK (now Epcos I think) also has their K10 material with approx permeability of 700 but their OD=50mm ID=30mm, h=20mm: https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3974271.pdf (https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3974271.pdf)
The core you bought some 10 years ago may have become obsolote by now of course.
Surely there are other manufacturers with such toroid cores with material permeabilities of 700 - 800.
Gyula
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.07, 15:13:23
Good question about the soft core material, i don't know (anymore) as i bought them some 10 years ago.
It was nice of Gyula to help you with this software. Maybe it really is the type 43 material.
There is another experiment that can be easily made that will tell you a lot about a ferrite:
Make a 1:1 transformer out if this ferrite and make the primary and secondary out of tight 1-turn each
*.
Keep them far apart (diametrically opposite on the core) to avoid any capacitive coupling. Then, make a S21 measurement with a VNA and you will obtain the ferrite's fingerprint. (its frequency characteristic).
For example this supplier (https://ferrite-shop.com/product/ft240-43-ferrite-toroid/?v=9b7d173b068d) shows this plot for the type 43 material:
(https://ferrite-shop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/FT240-43-multiple-turns.png)
Callibrate without the ferrite, with the same two loops next to each other like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3924.0;attach=36090).
* It's best to make the 1-turn windings out of the coax cables that connect the 1:1 transformer to the VNA ( tightly soldered around the core in the manner of the H-probes ).
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.07, 15:13:23
I only have a Hall sensor probe, not calibrated, but thinking of buying a Gauss meter like the WT10A (static magnetic fields only), so i will see what i can do.
I have that meter and I have to warn you that it came uncalibrated.
Meanwhile, perhaps you could measure how many ampturns are needed to cancel the axial magnetic flux in that gap.
You can do it by winding a low quality temporary coil on that soft ferrite sausage half, which is
not adjacent to the magnets, and see how much direct current is needed to rotate a small compass placed
in this gap by 90°.
Similar (but not exactly) to this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49184)
Well, with the 4 ring magnets attached to the soft cores, the compass needle is doing noting with 11A going through a 24 turn coil.
Even with a single ring magnet there is ample movement, so i had to back off this single ring magnet 5cm away from the soft cores to create this 90° movement at 10A through the coil.
11A is the max current i can push at the moment.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49439;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.08, 15:12:16
Even with a single ring magnet there is ample movement, so i had to back off this single ring magnet 5cm away from the soft cores to create this 90° movement at 10A through the coil.
Yeah the equivalent surface current in magnets is in the kA range, but I was estimating that the long magnetic path will attenuate the flux density in the gap.
Since it is the ampturns that oppose the magnet (not Amps alone), my next question is: What is the thinnest wire that you have that can withstand 10A without burning its insulation? Warm is fine...
I tested a piece of 1mm magnet wire, it got warm after 2 minutes
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.08, 16:50:52
I tested a piece of 1mm magnet wire, it got warm after 2 minutes
How much you've got ?
Enough to make several hundred ugly turns with your drill or lathe ?
I will have to see what i can do.
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.07, 20:18:49
It was nice of Guyla to help you with this software. Maybe it really is the type 43 material.
There is another experiment that can be easily made that will tell you a lot about a ferrite:
Make a 1:1 transformer out if this ferrite and make the primary and secondary out of tight 1-turn each *.
Keep them far apart (diametrically opposite on the core) to avoid any capacitive coupling. Then, make a S21 measurement with a VNA and you will obtain the ferrite's fingerprint. (its frequency characteristic).
For example this supplier (https://ferrite-shop.com/product/ft240-43-ferrite-toroid/?v=9b7d173b068d) shows this plot for the type 43 material:
(https://ferrite-shop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/FT240-43-multiple-turns.png)
Callibrate without the ferrite, with the same two loops next to each other like this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3924.0;attach=36090).
* It's best to make the 1-turn windings out of the coax cables that connect the 1:1 transformer to the VNA ( tightly soldered around the core in the manner of the H-probes ).
Concerning this post, i see what you mean, but it's not easily done, like i have to solder / desolder those 1 turns coaxes several times like to test around the core, then calibrate, then again around the core to measure.
Instead, i tried it with simple magnet wire loops, and the results do kind of match the graph of the manufacturer (S21 (Z) shunt):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49441;image)
So i guess it's indeed type 43 material.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.08, 19:58:13
... I have to solder / desolder those 1 turns coaxes several times like to test around the core, then calibrate, then again around the core to measure.
Yes, but without it the results will not be maximally accurate.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.08, 19:58:13
So i guess it's indeed type 43 material.
Perhaps not.
Your ferrite transformer appears to transfer signals up to 100MHz without distortions. Notice that your S21 plot is quite flat up to 100MHz and squiggles begin only at ~140MHz. So if you make a 1:1 Balun from it, then it will work well up to 100MHz for sure.
Take a look at the "1:1 Balun (Choke)" column in the table published by this supplier (https://ferrite-shop.com/ferrite-material/?v=9b7d173b068d) :
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49321)
You can notice that according to it, the type 43 material would not be able to transfer 100MHz signals and there is only one ferrite material type on that list, which is suitable for 1:1 Baluns up to 100MHz.
That, combined with the 713 relative permeability at 100kHz, suggests that it is a different material, yet.
Ok, so based on my plot it more points to type 61 material although the relative permeability of 125 contradicts that.
It's a pity that that supplier does not show a graph of the type 61 material.
Anyway, i will try again with some coax loops like an H field probe (does those include the outer shield cuts, i can't really see on your loops picture)?
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.09, 08:58:20
It's a pity that that supplier does not show a graph of the type 61 material.
...but Gyula's source does:
https://fair-rite.com/61-material-data-sheet/
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.09, 08:58:20
...does those include the outer shield cuts, i can't really see on your loops picture ?
Yes. You cannot see them because I epoxied the shield-gap. If you want to quickly take the cable loop off/on the core, you can cut the center conductor in the center of the shield-gap, too. Just make the shield-gap wide enough for your smallest soldering tip to fit in it and allow you to make a quick butt joint (https://fractory.com/types-of-welding-joints/) of the center conductor. Lap joints (https://fractory.com/types-of-welding-joints/) are stronger but not recommended because they can change the length of the loop after calibration.
Hi Verpies,
Very nice to see Itsu and you are in good understanding about the effort.
Could you explain in a short semy detailed summary the last discoveries/ standings? As in which you and Itsu are engaging?
Thanks in advance
I prefer to do kind of regular short reviews on the follow ups that where done.
This helps us to understand and stay focused
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.09, 19:59:11
Could you explain in a short semy detailed summary the last discoveries/ standings? As in which you and Itsu are engaging?
There are two experiments going on.
One is to confirm/refute that a magnetic disturbance of a short pulse is confined inside a shielded, grounded and terminated (or shorted) coaxial cable. So far it doesn't look like it ...but there are still some open places from which the pulse can leak out.
If coils wound with ungapped coaxial cable are possible then it would be news to me and a pathway to generate clean pulsed magnetic fields without the ITC messing it up.
The second experiment is centered around characterizing Itsu's unknown ferrite material and determining its frequency response as well as determining the magnetic flux density in the gap between two ferrite sausages, generated by adjacent permanent magnets or alternatively, the H field needed to cancel their flux in that gap.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.09, 20:16:22
The second experiment is centered around characterizing Itsu's unknown ferrite material and determining its frequency response as well as determining the magnetic flux density in the gap between two ferrite sausages, generated by adjacent permanent magnets or alternatively, the H field needed to cancel their flux in that gap.
You need its parameter for calculation purpose?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.10, 17:49:16
You need its parameter for calculation purpose?
Yes or he will have to hunt for ±10Hz resonance all over the spectrum with unknown amplitudes.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.10, 17:56:36
Yes or he will have to hunt for ±10Hz resonance all over the spectrum with unknown amplitudes.
Would be nice Itsu succeeds in the test setup and solid testprotocol with reliable outcome.
This means if obligation 1 is realistic you probably like to use a different ferrite/ magnet setup.
Things are slow here, sorry about that, bench time seems scarce lately, but i am still working on those above-mentioned items.
Itsu
I made a coil of 0.8mm magnet wire around the left part of the soft cores with the 4 magnetron magnets stuck to the right part of the soft cores.
There is 530 turns in this coil.
When increasing the current from 0 to 2.6A, the compass needle is turning about 45 degrees not further also if i increase the current.
Seems the compass is stuck mechanically or magnetically then.
Video here: https://youtu.be/nEW6PDMlHcw
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49435;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 16:16:25
Seems the compass is stuck mechanically or magnetically then.
Always looking good your setups, nice clean work.
The compas is not the idealist measurement tool, Better would be Fe powder.
No flatscreen type of field visualizers available or smart options?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 16:16:25
When increasing the current from 0 to 2.6A, the compass needle is turning about 45 degrees not further also if i increase the current.
What if you reverse the DC polarity - will the compass turn the other way then ?
Also, if you move the compass left-right (in the orientation as it was filmed) can you find a place at which it is at 90° ? ...even over the cores or coil
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.11, 16:56:43
Always looking good your setups, nice clean work.
Yeah, he could have made a slip-shod rat-nest coil, ....but noooo, he had to make a neat one.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.11, 16:56:43
The compass is not the ideal measurement tool, Better would be Fe powder.
Yes, but most people don't have it on hand, unless they have kids and a broken etch-a-sketch.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.11, 17:34:49
Yeah, he could have made a slip-shod rat-nest coil, ....but noooo, he had to make a neat one.
He makes your calculations easier to do.
Well, perhaps we need an even lower tech solution?
What about suspending a magnetised needle? The Vikings certainly found it useful.... ;D
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.11, 17:46:30
What about suspending a magnetised needle?
A suspended needle has more than the three rotational degrees of freedom. It is likely the magnets will attract it linearly
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.11, 17:28:30
What if you reverse the DC polarity - will the compass turn the other way then ?
Also, if you move the compass left-right (in the orientation as it was filmed) can you find a place at which it is at 90° ? ...even over the cores or coil
If i reverse polarity then the needle goes the other way, but only like 35 degrees.
What i noticed then is that the current was limited to 2.9A due to the low voltage setting, so after increasing the voltage setting, i now can really increase the current, and it will turn the needle 90 degrees at 5.5A.
I do have to move the compass up and down to get the right position for it to move smoothly.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 18:51:00
...after increasing the voltage setting, i now can really increase the current, and it will turn the needle 90 degrees at 5.5A...
You probably know this, but I must warn you that disconnecting that coil, while current is flowing through it, could damage your power supply.
What are the currents needed to move the compass needle parallel to the device's axis (0°) and perpedicular to that axis (90°)
anywhere ? ...especially where the Al ring was (if you can disassemble it easily)
Yeah, i know, therefor i use the current limiter to slowly turn off / on the current.
When the current gets too high (like 7A), then the little compass is attracted and is jumping over to that coil as it seems that its center stud is made of metal.
The way i had the compass in the picture / video, the needle is pointing at an angle of 45° toward the nearest soft core, and when energizing the coil with a strong enough current (5.5A), then it points to the nearest soft core in the coil also at 45°, so it is never parallel to the device's axis.
When i put the compass on top of the alu pipe, then in rest the needle is parallel to the device's axis, but at 4A in the coil, it attracts the whole compass toward the coil, and if i hold it in place and wiggle it somewhat it jumps over 180°, so no smooth transition from North to south, so no 90°
I found a suitable metal box to house the electronics for the pulser, so here a glimpse of what i am trying to do with the coax in a copper tube coil:
As the current drawn is very low, i will power it from 4x 9V batteries parallel.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49437;image)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 19:53:28
... the little compass is attracted and is jumping over to that coil as it seems that its center stud is made of metal.
I can see how this would be a problem.
I thought that your compass is made out of glass like mine ...except the needle.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 19:53:28
The way i had the compass in the picture / video, the needle is pointing at an angle of 45° toward the nearest soft core, and when energizing the coil with a strong enough current (5.5A), then it points to the nearest soft core in the coil also at 45°, so it is never parallel to the device's axis.
That's because it is too far away from the axis.
( aiding fields diagram not included )
See the off-axis 45° angles depicted in red below:
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 20:01:26
I found a suitable metal box to house the electronics for the pulser,...
Is it solderable after sanding ?
Did you notice that the lid doesn't make an electric contact with the rest of the box because it is painted ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 20:01:26
...so here a glimpse of what i am trying to do with the coax in a copper tube coil:
Will you straighten the section of the tube which I marked in red color and solder it into the hole which I marked with blue arrow ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 19:53:28
When i put the compass on top of the alu pipe,...
We are really interested in the direction of the flux in the gap (the space occupied by the Al ring).
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 19:53:28
..., then in rest the needle is parallel to the device's axis,
That flux should be parallel to the axis somewhere in the gap when the two fields are not bucking and even more so when they are aiding.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.11, 19:53:28
but at 4A in the coil, it attracts the whole compass toward the coil, and if i hold it in place and wiggle it somewhat it jumps over 180°, so no smooth transition from North to south, so no 90°
That 180° jump could be the compass getting remagnetized ...which is not good.
That 90° flux of the neutral line must be there somewhere. Maybe not in the gap or over the gap, but it must be there somewhere, with +DC or with -DC.
QuoteIs it solderable after sanding ?
Yes, its solderable then
QuoteDid you notice that the lid doesn't make an electric contact with the rest of the box because it is painted ?
yes, it will need some sanding to have it sealed.
QuoteWill you straighten the section of the tube which I marked in red color and solder it into the hole which I marked with blue arrow ?
Yes, there will be a sealed connection around the coax from coil tube to metal box.
QuoteWe are really interested in the direction of the flux in the gap (the space occupied by the Al ring).
Yeah, but thats a problem as where there is an Al ring, there can be no compass so we will keep an offset.
QuoteThat flux should be parallel to the axis somewhere in the gap when the two fields are not bucking and even more so when they are aiding.
Indeed, and i see that when reversing the current (aiding flux), the compass needle will move from 45° pointing to the magnets to more like parallel to the axis.
QuoteThat 180° jump could be the compass getting remagnetized ...which is not good.
Right, its remagnetized now as without any magnets, it points with south to the northpole.
QuoteThat 90° flux of the neutral line must be there somewhere. Maybe not in the gap or over the gap, but it must be there somewhere, with +DC or with -DC.
You mean the 90° flux at the positions shown in this picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49155;image)
So in layman's terms, are we looking for a place that the two magnetic fields are at a null point?
How about using a length of Piano wire, magnetised by stroking and placing the end between the gap. The pivot could then be placed much further away unaffected by the strong magnetic field?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.12, 10:58:56
So in layman's terms, are we looking for a place that the two magnetic fields are at a null point?
Yes, like Wesley's neutral line, which you should be very familiar with.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.12, 10:58:56
How about using a length of Piano wire, magnetised by stroking and placing the end between the gap. The pivot could then be placed much further away unaffected by the strong magnetic field?
The pivot in the decent compass should be glass or jeweled in the first place.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.12, 08:51:19
You mean the 90° flux at the positions shown in this picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49155;image)
Yes, but that diagram shows the flux lines of two equal coils. Your magnets and ferrite sausage provide a little different field geometry.
Keep in mind that even with aiding flux in the gap, not all of it is parallel to the axis. As a matter of fact, the wider the gap is, the more the flux bulges out.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4477.0;attach=49363)
@Grum: That's why narrower gaps are better and 6mm is better than 30mm.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4477.0;attach=49367)
Ok, so i might use a smaller Al ring (6mm is better than 30mm) to see if that 90° flux of the neutral line becomes visible.
Concerning the shielding of magnetic field of my nano-pulser, i found this interesting video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSwohZSjSdg
So it turns out that the magnetic field (H field) is very hard to shield of especially at high frequencies (guess that the nano-pulse can be considered high frequency).
So is it even doable to shield it?
There is no way to shield a magnetic field. You can direct it using magnetically permeable material like Mu-metal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal) or Terfenol-D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terfenol-D).
As you say, it won't work very well for high frequency magnetic fields because it will cause the shield to heat up due to eddy currents. That's how an induction cooker works.
Shielding the electric field is easier because you can put something in a sealed metal box and ground it.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.12, 12:30:44
So it turns out that the magnetic field (H field) is very hard to shield of especially at high frequencies
No, jest the opposite. Watch, Dave's video again.
25kHz is considered low frequency by us.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.12, 12:30:44
(guess that the nano-pulse can be considered high frequency).
Yes
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.12, 12:30:44
So is it even doable to shield it?
Yes, but the conductivity and continuity of the shield must be assured.
QuoteNo, jest the opposite. Watch, Dave's video again.
25kHz is considered low frequency by us.
Right, so the better magnetic shielding is at higher frequency thus the nano-pulse
Quote from: lfarrand on 2023.10.12, 13:01:50
There is no way to shield a magnetic field.
This is almost
* true in reference to constant magnetic fields.
Quote from: lfarrand on 2023.10.12, 13:01:50
You can direct it using magnetically permeable material like Mu-metal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu-metal) or Terfenol-D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terfenol-D).
Yes, this type of materials would be very effective at diverting constant magnetic fields somewhere else, but there is a class of materials that can beet them hands down.
Quote from: lfarrand on 2023.10.12, 13:01:50
As you say, it won't work very well for high frequency magnetic fields because it will cause the shield to heat up due to eddy currents. That's how an induction cooker works.
Just the opposite.
You are correct that the shield heats up due to eddy currents and that's how an induction cooker works, but also notice that this is an energy dissipation mechanism (a conversion of alternating magnetic fields to heat).
Furthermore, this dissipation mechanism is more pronounced at higher frequencies, so higher frequencies are dissipated MORE.
I think you forgot to differentiate that constant magnetic fields are shielded by a different mechanizm than varying magnetic fields.
The former is done just like you wrote - by diverting the flux away from the shielded space.
The latter is done by our good old friend, the Lenz's Law (or eddy currents as its corollary).
The current induced in a conductive shield due to the Lenz Law, generates magnetic field which is the
opposite to the field which caused the current to be generated.
The more conductive the shield is, the higher the induced current and in the limiting case (a perfectly conducting shield) the induced current gets so large that it generates magnetic field which is
equal and opposite to the magnetic field that caused that induction in the first place. This creates perfect shielding of varying magnetic fields without diversion.
If the shield is not perfectly conductive, then the eddy currents induced in it decay with time and this means that as time goes on, less and less opposing flux is generated and the shielding effect fades. This is especially true at low frequencies because their cycle periods are so long that these eddy currents have the time to decay significantly, but they don't have enough time to decay at short periods (high frequencies), which explains the frequency dependence of this shielding process.
So conductive shields act as virtual diamagentics (with
negative dynamic magnetic susceptibility) for varying/alternating magnetic fields. The best ones for shielding varying magnetic fields are superconductors
*, followed by silver, copper and aluminium.
That is why the shield of high performance coaxial cables and waveguides is made out of silver or copper. The skin effect guarantees that even thin conductive shields are effective at high frequencies, but low frequencies require thick shields.
Quote from: lfarrand on 2023.10.12, 13:01:50
Shielding the electric field is easier because you can put something in a sealed metal box and ground it.
Yes
* Superconductors are as good at shielding constant magnetic fields as the varying/alternating ones, because the eddy currents induced in them never decay. They beat mu-metal hands down, but they do it by a different mechanism. See this (https://youtu.be/yMg6j-UoUfo)
Thanks Verpies. I had only been considering shielding static magnetic fields. Your explanation of how Lenz helps shield a magnetic field changing over time is very helpful.
Excellent post Verpies.
Regards
Mike
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.10.12, 15:38:51
Excellent post Verpies.
AFAIK that's a minority opinion. It doesn't lead to any OU directly.
BTW: Nice to see you here. I haven't seen you since August.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.12, 12:30:44
Ok, so i might use a smaller Al ring (6mm is better than 30mm) ...
If you do that then you will not be able to put a small compass in the gap between the ferrites.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.12, 16:58:54
AFAIK that's a minority opinion. It doesn't lead to any OU directly.
BTW: Nice to see you here. I haven't seen you since August.
Been very busy trying to sort out a messs I see that I have made. Waiting for an agreement to run out, and then see what happens.
Regards
Mike
Using a bigger compass to measure the magnetic fields inside the gap shows a smoother path that the needle follows, thus easier to get to the 90 degree point.
This 90 degree point is where i understand the both magnetic fields are equal and are squeezed perpendicular to the axis of the device and happens around 3.5A of current through 530 turns coil
Video here: https://youtu.be/AKSMLiaGTVg
Itsu
Itsu:
I think that I missed the point of these last few tests. Is this somehow suppose to lead to OU, or FE?
Or have anything to do with grenade coils, which are normally air coils, instead? With no ferrite, magnets, or a split tube.
I agree with Classic that you can't get more electricity, by just using electricity to obtain more electricity.
Especially in any and all closed systems. Without having an additional fuelless external energy source.
NicKZ
Could a permanent magnetic bias be placed on the LH end ( smaller than that of the RHS ) and the electromagnet provide the equilibrium at a much lower current consumption? Just a thought....
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 13:21:58
Itsu:
I think that I missed the point of these last few tests. Is this somehow suppose to lead to FE?
NicKZ
Hi Nick,
yes, all we do here "somehow suppose to lead to FE".
Look at the names of the pictures attached to this post: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107986#msg107986
Itsu
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.13, 13:27:59
Could a permanent magnetic bias be placed on the LH end ( smaller than that of the RHS ) and the electromagnet provide the equilibrium at a much lower current consumption? Just a thought....
Cheers Grum.
Hi Graham,
it probably will, but i guess verpies is trying to determine the magnetic field produced by the 4 magnets by using the ampere-turns value needed by the coil to nullify the magnetic field produced by the 4 magnets.
With 3.5A through 530 turns we are talking about 1855Amp-turns.
Itsu
Itsu:
Sorry for my question. As nothing that we have ever done has led to FE.
I looked at the posted link, but still don't understand about the free energy part.
So, I will wait and see what results these tests bring to the table. As I don't understand how nullifying the magnetic field will produce OU.
Again, sorry for not understanding.
NickZ
Nick,
nothing that we have ever done has led to FE, Right. But all that we have ever done here "suppose" to lead to FE.
The names of the attached pictures to that post are: "Fuel ring" pointing to using those rings as fuel, as in electrical fuel.
You can "wait and see", like many others here, but you also could "join in and see"!
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 13:21:58
Is this somehow suppose to lead to OU, or FE? Or have anything to do with grenade coils, which are normally air coils, instead? With no ferrite, magnets, or a split tube.
Your confirmation bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) and cherry picking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking) knows no limits. See:
https://youtu.be/gz0IPdPbHvA
https://youtu.be/5nxKqfkkndw?t=224
https://youtu.be/Dnrm8jT_6B8?t=275
https://youtu.be/7fWP1unQr10
https://youtu.be/84IXnyNV4tw
https://youtu.be/x89DU09d7Dw
https://youtu.be/wAmDpqhvxZE
https://youtu.be/bcftGrBEaL0
https://youtu.be/Wku5Y3afung?t=11
and there are many more videos and photos of devices with visible cores and tubes and/or rings ...and probably even more with invisible ones.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 14:04:25
... I don't understand how nullifying the magnetic field will produce OU.
The purpose of these experiments was
not to nullify or cancel the magnetic field but to change the direction of the flux generated by the magnets by 90°.
Also, just like Itsu wrote, the secondary purpose was to determine the H field needed to accomplish that feat. (H is measured in ampturns).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.13, 15:31:18
Your confirmation bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) and cherry picking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking) knows no limits. See:
https://youtu.be/gz0IPdPbHvA
https://youtu.be/Dnrm8jT_6B8?t=275
https://youtu.be/wAmDpqhvxZE
https://youtu.be/bcftGrBEaL0
and there are many more videos and photos of devices with visible cores and tubes and/or rings ...and probably even more with invisible ones.
Maxwell Demon
Regards
Mike
It's pure conjecture but here goes....
I became an acquaintance of A King several years ago. He had probably the most interaction with TK, via a third party translator in real time, than anyone I know. On several occasions it was noted that TK would destroy the " special coil " after a demonstration and then wind a replacement for the next.
Why would you do that if the answer lay in the " ether " as being the excess energy source? I'll wager it was due to the " secret sauce " hidden within those windings that got depleted over the demonstration period.
A bit of Copper braid that becomes magnetic after a while.... Modern day Alchemy? More like removing a few electrons and being transmuted to Nickel ?
I'm really hoping that we can see something concrete from these experiments.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.13, 13:27:59
Could a permanent magnetic bias be placed on the LH end ( smaller than that of the RHS ) and the electromagnet provide the equilibrium...
It could, however the goal is not to only generate a field perpendicular (90°) to the axis (although that is useful for estimating the H) but to CHANGE the field's direction in the gap from parallel (0°) to perpendicular (90°). A small but significant difference....
Right now we have a change from ~45° to 90°, which is to be expected with only one polarity of the DC.
Watch me bother Itsu about this next...
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.13, 13:27:59
at a much lower current consumption?
Actually, the magnets are there to decrease the electric current (and energy consumption) that needs to be delivered to the coil/coils to keep the direction of the flux in the gap at 0°.
Otherwise you'd have to have a large DC flowing in the coil most of the time in lieu of the magnets. ( this way it would be possible to get rid of the magnets entirely but then the coils would have to do their job).
The direction of the flux in the gap needs to be in the parallel (0°) direction 99.99% of the time, and only once in a while, it has to change to 90° due to a HV pulse fed into a low-turn coil
* (because the ITC of a high-turn coil would distort it or kill it and its high-inductance would attenuate it).
These experiments are to provide an estimate how strong that HV pulse needs to be to accomplish this feat.
* people like Nick call it the helical "antenna".
No, people like Nick, call it guessing. And, I see NO relation to the idea of "grenade coils", and how they function.
As you've never built one, you can only assume...
I await your results.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 18:24:03
No, people like Nick, call it guessing.
A hypothesis is a far cry from a guess.
Hypothesis is a stage in the scientific method.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/The_Scientific_Method.svg/390px-The_Scientific_Method.svg.png)
Below are the definitions of these and related words, in case you haven't learned them yet (and if you have, then this is a case of using the wrong words on purpose in a debate - a dishonest practice).
Theory: 1. rules and techniques: the body of rules, ideas, principles, dependencies, and techniques that applies to a subject, especially when seen as distinct from actual practice
Hypothesis: 1. theory needing investigation: a tentative explanation for a phenomenon, used as a basis for further investigation
Conjecture: 1. guesswork: the formation of judgments or opinions on the basis of incomplete or inconclusive information
Speculation: 1. opinion based on incomplete information: a probabilistic conclusion, theory, or opinion based on incomplete facts or information
2. reasoning based on incomplete facts or information rooted in probability
Assumption: 1. something taken for granted: something that is believed to be true without proof or logic
2. a statement that is assumed to be true for the sake of argument or exploring the possibilities
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 18:24:03
And, I see NO relation to the idea of "grenade coils", and how they function.
No relation?! I can see that you are just ignoring the list of videos I posted with devices that utilize cores and tubes/rings. A perfect example of cherry picking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking).
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 18:24:03
As you've never built one, you can only assume...
Actually, I have built this one, I just never built the one according to your hypothesis (energy from the ambient).
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 18:24:03
I await your results.
A pot calling the kettle black about nil results.
Quote from: Centraflow on 2023.10.13, 16:23:54
Maxwell Demon
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49371
Do you have the patent application number? The connections description is not all that clear to me.
Do you mean the list if videos that have not shown one iota of free energy, or how to obtain it? Those videos???
Would you be so kind as to show a picture or video of your so called "grenade" and what your device can do? When you disconnect power source.
Of course that will never happen, now will it? Far cry, is it...
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 19:41:46
Do you mean the list if videos that have not shown one iota of free energy,
Yes, they do claim excess energy and the coil with the core or slotted tube/ring is clearly visible.
They are not any less credible then the ones you believe in.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.13, 16:38:14
I'll wager it was due to the " secret sauce " hidden within those windings that got depleted over the demonstration period.
Good observation. It is more likely that this sauce was material than non-material.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.13, 16:38:14
A bit of Copper braid that becomes magnetic after a while.... Modern day Alchemy?
Yes, this video (https://youtu.be/2Y8MCLN0xdg?t=193) is a screaming anomaly.
Just to forestall some bloke replying that there is nothing unusual about a ferromagnetic wire, I'd like to write that I agree, but the anomaly is
not that the wire is ferromagnetic but that it has
changed its physical property from a non-ferromagnetic to a ferromagnetic metal.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.13, 19:59:25
Yes, they do claim excess energy and the coil with the core or slotted tube/ring is clearly visible.
They are not any less credible then the ones you believe in.
Sorry, I must have missed that. I thought that ALL of Itsu's tests proved negative. While inserting split tube, ferrite, magnets, grounds, etc... Main thing is, will it self run?
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 20:54:31
I thought that ALL of Itsu's tests proved negative. While inserting split tube, ferrite, magnets, grounds, etc...
Yes, but these were half-hearted attempts with coils that were not designed to create the internal conditions for mass-to-energy conversion.
These were coils designed to harvest the "energy of the ambient"... which transferred the input energy to the output like tuned transformers and the metal tubes inside them decreased the efficiency of that transfer (as they should have).
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.13, 12:36:55
Using a bigger compass to measure the magnetic fields inside the gap shows a smoother path that the needle follows, thus easier to get to the 90 degree point.
Yes, if you look at the sims in this post (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108107#msg108107) then the 90° flux exists even far away from the axis (unfortunately, less so in case of the 0° flux).
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.13, 12:36:55
This 90 degree point is where i understand the both magnetic fields are equal and are squeezed perpendicular to the axis of the device and happens around 3.5A of current through 530 turns coil
Yes, squeezed but not cancelled.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.13, 13:50:39
it probably will, but i guess verpies is trying to determine the magnetic field produced by the 4 magnets by using the ampere-turns value needed by the coil to nullify the magnetic field produced by the 4 magnets.
Yes, however not to nullify but oppose it with equal strength as magnetic flux cannot be destroyed.
Notice that the 3.5A of current flowing in that coil wound over that ferrite, does not create a magnetic field which is equal to the field generated by the magnets, but a weaker one attenuated by the ~10cm distance to the magnets (the ferrite cores make this attenuation smaller).
If you swapped the magnets with their adjacent ferrite cores, so that magnets were situated directly at the gap, then the current needed to generate an equal but opposing flux would be much greater.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.13, 13:50:39
With 3.5A through 530 turns we are talking about 1855Amp-turns.
Yes, and that also means that if we wanted to oppose that flux with a fast 5-turn coil then we would need to put 371A through it.
However that would give us only a 45° rotation, because in the relaxed state the flux in the gap is not parallel to the axis (it is at ~45°).
Please experiment with reversed DC polarity to see how much current it takes to make that flux in the gap parallel to the axis.
Additionally, you may add permanent magnets to the other end of the device (in attracting mode) to make that flux in the gap parallel (0°) with the aid of the current in coil or without.
Verpies,
Once you are able to vary the flux orientation in the "fuel" at the desired depth and bandwidth, what method or arrangement will be used to detect the sought after release of energy?
PW
@PW: One turn shielded winding over the ring connected to an oscilloscope, triggered to detect high di/dt spikes AFTER the stimulating pulse ends. These current spikes may also generate acoustic phenomena.
Another evidence would be electrostatic charge accumulating on the ring (if no path to ground is provided).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.13, 22:01:04
Yes, if you look at the sims in this post (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108107#msg108107) then the 90° flux exists even far away from the axis (unfortunately, less so in case of the 0° flux).
Yes, squeezed but not cancelled.
Yes, however not to nullify but oppose it with equal strength as magnetic flux cannot be destroyed.
Notice that the 3.5A of current flowing in that coil wound over that ferrite, does not create a magnetic field which is equal to the field generated by the magnets, but a weaker one attenuated by the ~10cm distance to the magnets (the ferrite cores make this attenuation smaller).
If you swapped the magnets with their adjacent ferrite cores, so that magnets were situated directly at the gap, then the current needed to generate an equal but opposing flux would be much greater.
Yes, and that also means that if we wanted to oppose that flux with a fast 5-turn coil then we would need to put 371A through it.
However that would give us only a 45° rotation, because in the relaxed state the flux in the gap is not parallel to the axis (it is at ~45°).
Please experiment with reversed DC polarity to see how much current it takes to make that flux in the gap parallel to the axis.
Additionally, you may add permanent magnets to the other end of the device (in attracting mode) to make that flux in the gap parallel (0°) with the aid of the current in coil or without.
Thanks for the information, i will do further experiments, but for my understanding, see below picture is this not how the magnetic field of the ring magnets will be distributed?
See also https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:VFPt_ringmagnet.svg
If so, will it not be obviously that the compass in the green position will always be pointing to the edge of the nearest soft core thus at 45° and that we will never be able to show it pointing parallel (0°) without moving it to the blue position (being in the center of the Al ring)?
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49423;image)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 08:14:26
Thanks for the information, i will do further experiments, but for my understanding, see below picture is this not how the magnetic field of the ring magnets will be distributed?
Yes and even worse than that, the flux will exit the ferrite along its length and will not be parallel nor confined inside the ferrite as you had drawn.
However the situation will change when aiding flux is generated by that 530t coil.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 08:14:26
...we will never be able to show it pointing parallel (0°) without moving it to the blue position (being in the center of the Al ring)?
Yes and that means the Al ring should be absent for these measurements.
Not bad, for a first attempt....
This is a test sample of ZAMAK or MAZAK if you're an old fogey like me. A simple, gravity die casting of Zinc alloy to test the dies. Hopefully you can see the 2/1000" Shim Steel that was used to create the air gap. I used Lamp Black to ensure it didn't stick to the casting.
The casting measures 50 mm OD by 25.6 mm ID 6 mm thick.
Hopefully I will manage to find the lump of pure Bismuth tucked away in the recesses of the workshop tomorrow?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.14, 09:07:07
Yes and even worse than that, the flux will exit the ferrite along its length and will not be parallel nor confined inside the ferrite as you had drawn.
However the situation will change when aiding flux is generated by that 530t coil.
Yes and that means the Al ring should be absent for these measurements.
I' m very pleased that this approach gives us at the moment a better indication what happens with the magnetic fields.
Please continue to add more basic explanations as you are doing lately. Things that matters so people like me and Nickz understand the concept.
I m not saying I don't understand whats going on but what your posting the last days gives me a better understanding off the complete concept.
I know you and Itsu are way ahead of the curve, my goal here is to get it better digestable.
So keep it going proff. I think your on the right path and you know it just keep it as simple for us as you can.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.14, 15:37:38
Not bad, for a first attempt....
Will you machine it to smooth it out and do Brass and Aluminum, too ?
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.14, 15:37:38
This is a test sample of ZAMAK or MAZAK if you're an old fogey like me.
I am a spring chicken so MAZAK to me is this (https://youtu.be/75JYh05BWLc).
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.14, 15:37:38
Hopefully you can see the 2/1000" Shim Steel that was used to create the air gap.
Yes.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.14, 15:37:38
I used Lamp Black to ensure it didn't stick to the casting.
Is that soot ?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.14, 17:53:01
Will you machine it to smooth it out and do Brass and Aluminum, too ?
I am a spring chicken so MAZAK to me is this (https://youtu.be/75JYh05BWLc).
Yes.
Is that soot ?
1. No machine works, the sides are perfectly flat and concentric. I wasn't planning on either Brass or Aluminium. The temperatures are a little too high for home die casting. I might try to source some pure Aluminium though. As stated previously most commercially available aluminium products are an alloy with other metals.
2. Lol....
3 & 4. Yes a candle flame puts a fine layer of soot onto a metal part to prevent it sticking.
Cheers Grum.
Graham, looking good, hopefully the bismuth comes out equally well O0
Meanwhile, i was trying to better visualize the magnetic field lines coming from the magnets / coils / cores, and i did this by using a compass to sniff out these field lines.
There is no field strength indication, just the position and direction of the field, but normally, the further away from the magnets or active coil, the weakest the field becomes.
I made 3 measurements, with the magnets only, with the active coil only and with both, in all 3 cases all the soft cores were present.
The coil was activated with 2.8A of current as that's what creates a roughly similar strong magnetic field compared with the 4 ring magnets.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49425;image)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49427;image)
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49429;image)
Itsu
When putting the coil into aiding mode, there is indeed a point at the gap where the needle points parallel (0°) to the device, but due to the compass its size, it flips over this point very quickly.
But it is around 3.5A of current through the coil.
Sniffing out the field lines shows that small hump in the field lines too.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49431;image)
Itsu
I managed to plot one of my soft cores using the nanoVNA and 2 H-field probes as proposed earlier, and this is the result:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49433;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 19:00:09
Meanwhile, i was trying to better visualize the magnetic field lines coming from the magnets / coils / cores, and i did this by using a compass to sniff out these field lines.
OMG! That was a lot of work. No iron powder, heh ?
Anyway, if you want such mappings to be precise in the future then the drawing plane should contain the axis of the device.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 19:00:09
There is no field strength indication, just the position and direction of the field, but normally, the further away from the magnets or active coil, the weakest the field becomes.
That is an important piece of information, because flux density that is too low might be insufficient for small radii of the metal ring.
Flux density can be estimated from the H, dimensions and permeability, though, but an empirical measurement would be worth more.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 19:00:09
I made 3 measurements, with the magnets only, with the active coil only and with both, in all 3 cases all the soft cores were present.
The coil was activated with 2.8A of current as that's what creates a roughly similar strong magnetic field compared with the 4 ring magnets.
Try to put magnets on both ends of the device, e.g. 2 on one and and 2 on the other (aiding mode)
There is an tradeoff/optimization to be made here:
In one case you could delete the ferrite entirely and put the magnets directly on both sides of the gap. This would create a high flux density in the gap that would be mostly parallel to the axis.
However, changing the direction of that strong 0° field to 90° would require a lot of ampturns, and a fast coil cannot have many turns. Also, high flux density necessitates narrower pulses (higher frequency spectral content).
Without a ferrite at the gap, the fast low-turn coil needs a lot of volts (and amps) to overcome the magnet's flux and squeeze/turn it 90° and without the high-turn DC/LF coil, you also lose the ability to adjust the 0° flux density in the gap.
On the other hand, low flux density requires a larger metal ring (and ferrite). Approximately 70500 Gauss / mm. (e.g.: a 50mm outer diameter ring requires at least 1410 Gauss in the gap, because 70500 / 50 = 1410 ).
That is well within the capabilities of ceramic magnets which can deliver Br of 2300 to 4000 Gauss, depending on their grade.
With the ferrite, however, the magnets move further apart and the flux density in the gap gets weaker ...but it becomes easier for the low-turn coil to squeeze/turn it 90°.
The longer the ferrite, the weaker the flux in the gap and this might require significant DC in the high-turn coil to aid it. That's wasted power.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.14, 20:37:44
I managed to plot one of my soft cores using the nanoVNA and 2 H-field probes as proposed earlier, and this is the result:
Well, that proves that this is a very fast ferrite. It barely budges at 100MHz and is still kickin' at 270MHz.
It also has a high initial permeability which is unusual for such a fast ferrite. I have no idea what type of material it is made out of. Maybe someone else can help.
The high speed and permeability of this ferrite means that it is good for magnifying the magnetic pulse generated by the fast low-turn coil, but it is not the ideal ferrite to be under the high-turn DC coil, where a very slow and high permeability ferrite (or powdered iron core) would be perfect so we don't inadvertently build an efficient step-up transformer between the fast low-turn coil and the high-turn DC coil (btw: the ITC is our friend in the latter because it suppresses the transformation of short pulses).
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.14, 16:26:05
Please continue to add more basic explanations as you are doing lately. Things that matters so people like me and Nickz understand the concept.
I don't think Nick is looking to understand anything that doesn't agree with his "energy from ambient" narrative or anything that is not "fuelless". See his words below.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 22:49:31
Not sure I want to test "fuel" anything. Not what I'm looking for, but fuelless, instead.
... despite that other people have been testing "his way" for years.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 22:49:31
I know you and Itsu are way ahead of the curve, ...
Itsu is not a proponent of this particular M.O. - he just likes to explore different possibilities with his experiments. Grum has a good handle on it, too.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 22:49:31
my goal here is to get it better digestable.
... just keep it as simple for us as you can.
So ask pointed questions.
I do not know what "simple" is for other people because life has taught me that what is simple and obvious for me might not be so for others.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.13, 22:49:31
So keep it going proff. I think your on the right path..
I know that I am doing the research in the correct manner but I cannot be certain it is on the right path until the fat core sings.
It really was not so much work as i expected to draw these flux lines, once you get the hang of it it goes rather quickly.
The iron powder makes much of a mess i would think (sticking to the magnets etc.), so was trying to avoid that.
There is an app on my iPhone (poledetector) that works to find the north or south pole of a magnet and also could be used for looking of a boundary of the flux, but it's not accurate for real strength measurements.
When deleting the cores all together, there is a strong north south flux causing the compass to point parallel to the axis: https://youtu.be/WYN1KKlaAok
Concerning the characterizing of the soft cores, i also used this formula / test mentioned here: https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg338840/#msg338840
It calculates the permeability to be 700 (similar to Gyula his calculator) when taking dimensions in mm (50 x 25 x 30) and the inductance in uH (70uH @ 1kHz).
What would be the ideal type of ferrite here (type 31, type 43....)?
Hi Itsu,
Here is another calculator for unknown toroidal cores: https://coil32.net/online-calculators/determine-toroid-core-permeability.html (https://coil32.net/online-calculators/determine-toroid-core-permeability.html)
The formulas used by it are listed here: https://coil32.net/ferrite-toroid-core.html (https://coil32.net/ferrite-toroid-core.html)
I do not know what formulas the Mini ring calculator software uses I referred to earlier, maybe it is based on the same formulas like the above coil32 uses (the results are very close).
You refer to the formula this member here showed https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg338840/#msg338840 (https://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg338840/#msg338840) and would like to ask how many turns did you wind onto the toroidal core? (because of the 70 uH you measured on it).
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Gyula,
thanks for the additional calculator, i will look at it tonight.
I used the recommended 5 turns (scroll to the right on that very big picture) to measure the 70uH.
Itsu
Okay, thanks. You can use more than 5 turns, more turns give more precise results on such a big core.
Gyula
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.15, 09:34:41
What would be the ideal type of ferrite here (type 31, type 43....)?
Something very sluggish and of high permeability, like Nanoperm, on one side of the gap and something fast on the other side of the gap, like the mystery material you have now.
The guiding idea is to
make it difficult for the upcoming short pulse to be transformed into the high-turn DC/LF winding because it would get stepped-up there, degrade insulation or arc-over, ring with the ITC & ILC and possibly damage the DC PS or LF Gen.
Please check my edit to post #280.
NickZ
Quote from: gyula on 2023.10.15, 12:02:10
Okay, thanks. You can use more than 5 turns, more turns give more precise results on such a big core.
Gyula
When i use 17 turns, that calculator says: u = 594 Al = 2467 nH/N2.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.15, 15:20:31
When i use 17 turns, that calculator says: u = 594 Al = 2467 nH/N2.
That's still a large initial µ
r for a 100MHz+ ferrite.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 14:44:05
Please check my edit to post #280.
NickZ
Hi Nick.
You seem to have got the quote thingy a little wrong, however can you provide us with a link to the YouTube video that you were referring to please? TK's last one....
After going " Solar " I lost touch with the scene for several years.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.15, 15:45:38
That's still a large initial µr for a 100MHz+ ferite.
I remembered i bought these cores while working on the yfree project, so i scanned that thread and found they were recommended there as being Digikey part number 240-2244-ND.
They still seem to be available there: https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/laird-signal-integrity-products/28b2000-100/668340
The data sheet found there does not really show any information about permeability: https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus/517/Ferrite_EMI_Cable_Cores.pdf
other than its dimensions and impedance at some frequencies and material :
BROADBAND 28 MATERIAL
Part
Number DIMENSIONS mm (inches) Typical Impedance (Z) in Ohms (Ω)
A B C @ 25MHz @ 100MHz @ 300MHz
28B2000-100 50.80 25.40 28.70 157 305 442
(2.000) (1.000) (1.130)
Itsu
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.15, 15:54:41
Hi Nick.
You seem to have got the quote thingy a little wrong, however can you provide us with a link to the YouTube video that you were referring to please? TK's last one....
After going " Solar " I lost touch with the scene for several years.
Cheers Grum.
Grum: https://youtu.be/95mxnt_QY2w
As this thread is titled Kapanadze devices. With a topic name of Grenade coils,
I thought that a reminder for those with little memory, this video, may help. Showing what is meant by the word, Grenade, in this case.
He also has many videos showing self runners, this was his last and best effort, me thinks.
NickZ
@Nick
Any device that claims OU and has a shape which resembles a Grenade, is on-topic in this thread.
This includes the video (https://youtu.be/95mxnt_QY2w) you'd posted.
However the device presented in this video (https://youtu.be/7JQSyQAVqzc), although invented by the same man, does not meet these qualifications ...even if it uses the same operational principle internally and is confirmed by the great Delamorto.
If you say so, boss.
Did you get the part about free energy??? And that he is mentioning what Tesla has said about the cosmic soup?
Harvesting from the surrounding ambient, and such. He was the guy that started all of these types of table top generators, of 5.000 watts, and more. Even though my doubts that he actually built any of them, including the one that you posted
P.S. Good find, but, that is not a solid state device. And of little interest to me. Sorry. I do focus on what interests me... Such as the device in Tariel's latest 5.000 W self running video. Or Ruslan's 5000 W video in the field. Or any other similar mood of operating type device, and or videos, showing such self runners. Not needing any type of additional "fuel".
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 18:45:14
Did you get the part about free energy???
Free energy is energy that you don't have to pay for.
As for its specific energy I'd set the bar to 100GJ/kg.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 18:45:14
P.S. Good find, but, that is not a solid state device. And of little interest to me. Sorry. I do focus on what interests me...
Yes, it is not solid state but do you think it is probable that Kapanadze was so clever that he invented two unrelated operational principles ?
If not, then you should be interested in it. Rejecting evidence that does not fit your cherished narrative constitutes cherry-picking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking).
Not only that physical material aspect, but the non physical aspects and sources, as well.
You are limiting your view of reality to physical observable and measureable phenomenon, so, good luck showing any actual extra energy, even from aluminum fuel rings, as the fuel source.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 19:31:05
You are limiting your view of reality to physical observable and measureable phenomenon...
Indeed it may seem so on the surface, but this guy (https://youtu.be/I7z26d8IsUc) is one of my favorites and this one (https://youtu.be/) too.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 19:31:05
good luck showing any actual extra energy, even from aluminum fuel rings, as the fuel source.
I doubt you really wish me luck. If I had any, it would crumble your worldview. Not a pleasant thing to wish for, so I doubt its sincerity.
Anyway, if fitness beats truth (https://youtu.be/I7z26d8IsUc?t=2380) and Itsu and you are doing these experiments in Don's headset, then you are doomed to fail no matter what you do.
I found data on the brodband 28 material of Laird your core was made by:
https://www.laird.com/products/inductive-components-emc-components-and-ferrite-cores/ferrite-cable-cores/cylindrical-cores/28b-series/28b2000-100 (https://www.laird.com/products/inductive-components-emc-components-and-ferrite-cores/ferrite-cable-cores/cylindrical-cores/28b-series/28b2000-100)
https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/28b2000-100-datasheet.pdf (https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/28b2000-100-datasheet.pdf) (For core types intended for EMI reduction and / or filters, normally no direct permeability data are given, only the Z impedance at some frequencies.)
https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/laird-mcp-ferrite-material-property.pdf (https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/laird-mcp-ferrite-material-property.pdf)
In this latter PDF file the 28 material is indicated as having a permeability of 850 on page 10.
I hope these data may give more help in exploring the cores you have, with the help of other members. Ferrite cores may change in specs during the years and also by the individual cores having the same sizes and materials, so permeability may vary from say 500 to 1000 or so for the 28 material (my opinion).
Gyula
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.15, 16:34:27
I remembered i bought these cores while working on the yfree project, so i scanned that thread and found they were recommended there as being Digikey part number 240-2244-ND.
They still seem to be available there: https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/laird-signal-integrity-products/28b2000-100/668340
The data sheet found there does not really show any information about permeability: https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/docus/517/Ferrite_EMI_Cable_Cores.pdf
other than its dimensions and impedance at some frequencies and material :
BROADBAND 28 MATERIAL
Part
Number DIMENSIONS mm (inches) Typical Impedance (Z) in Ohms (Ω)
A B C @ 25MHz @ 100MHz @ 300MHz
28B2000-100 50.80 25.40 28.70 157 305 442
(2.000) (1.000) (1.130)
Itsu
Quote from: gyula on 2023.10.15, 20:25:22
I found data on the brodband 28 material of Laird your core was made by:
I appreciate you doing that.
Notice, that your permeability calculator and Itsu's VNA were correct after all.
I am attaching a table of this material's properties extracted from the datasheet you've found.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4477.0;attach=49397)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.15, 16:34:27
They still seem to be available there: https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/laird-signal-integrity-products/28b2000-100/668340
Amazing that you've remembered that!
Their material types 40 and 42 seem like good candidates for DC and low frequencies. They have µ
r=7500..10000 and conk out well under 1MHz.
Quote from: gyula on 2023.10.15, 20:25:22
I found data on the brodband 28 material of Laird your core was made by:
https://www.laird.com/products/inductive-components-emc-components-and-ferrite-cores/ferrite-cable-cores/cylindrical-cores/28b-series/28b2000-100 (https://www.laird.com/products/inductive-components-emc-components-and-ferrite-cores/ferrite-cable-cores/cylindrical-cores/28b-series/28b2000-100)
https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/28b2000-100-datasheet.pdf (https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/28b2000-100-datasheet.pdf) (For core types intended for EMI reduction and / or filters, normally no direct permeability data are given, only the Z impedance at some frequencies.)
https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/laird-mcp-ferrite-material-property.pdf (https://www.laird.com/sites/default/files/laird-mcp-ferrite-material-property.pdf)
In this latter PDF file the 28 material is indicated as having a permeability of 850 on page 10.
I hope these data may give more help in exploring the cores you have, with the help of other members. Ferrite cores may change in specs during the years and also by the individual cores having the same sizes and materials, so permeability may vary from say 500 to 1000 or so for the 28 material (my opinion).
Gyula
Gyula,
thanks for info O0
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.15, 20:56:24
Amazing that you've remembered that!
Their material types 40 and 42 seem like good candidates for DC and low frequencies. They have µr=7500..10000 and conk out well under 1MHz.
These material types 40 and 42 cores are harder to find.
I think they are named as LAIRD LFB360230-300 so not starting with 40 or 42 but with LF (Low Frequency).
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.16, 09:28:46
These material types 40 and 42 cores are harder to find.
I think they are named as LAIRD LFB360230-300 so not starting with 40 or 42 but with LF (Low Frequency).
Do they even exist in the same size as your fast cores??
There are some other 50mm OD (https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/epcos-tdk-electronics/B64290L0082X038/3913625) cores there, too.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.15, 17:02:28
Grum: https://youtu.be/95mxnt_QY2w
As this thread is titled Kapanadze devices. With a topic name of Grenade coils,
I thought that a reminder for those with little memory, this video, may help. Showing what is meant by the word, Grenade, in this case.
He also has many videos showing self runners, this was his last and best effort, me thinks.
NickZ
Thanks Nick.
I hadn't seen that one before. There were 2 things that raised a Red flag for me.
The first was the freshly cemented around " Earth ?? " connection. It looked to be around 300 mm in section. Possible concealment?
But the most damning to me was when they switched on the 2-3 Kw electric kettle. Nothing flinched !! This suggested a very low impedance connection to a very solid electricity supply. In our little hamlet that's fed by a now, very underrated pole transformer we can tell when the neighbours have a shower, the lights dip momentarily....
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.16, 10:52:38
Nothing flinched !! This suggested a very low impedance connection to a very solid electricity supply.
I agree
One pure Bismuth washer....
I'm quite happy with the results, what about you Verpies?
Along side is a broken piece of high temperature Glass that was used to close the die. The " sprue " or filling hole to the uninitiated, can be seen tapering outwards. This had a further extension around it to provide the " head " of metal above and was slid away from the casting just before the metal solidified.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 10:27:14
Do they even exist in the same size as your fast cores??
There are some other 50mm OD (https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/epcos-tdk-electronics/B64290L0082X038/3913625) cores there, too.
I don't think so, the 36mm OD ones i found seems to be the biggest.
But if these 50mm OD ones you linked are also OK, then they are a better match with the 50mm OD broadband cores i have now.
Grum:
Then Tariel must have been a great magician. As he has done many videos in front of many witnesses, over the span of many years. And no one has been able to detect anything fradulent ever. Like 220 lines, that don't flicker when turning KW loads, like yours do.
Here every one uses electric hot water heaters for showers. I can't tell when any other house is using their electric shower, or tea pot. Mine does drop a bit, which is normal, at 5000 watt loads.
Ground lines are normally made of welding cable and are just a single multi strand wire, needing two other lines for a 220 volt power source, or what ever is supposedably hidden in the cement. How long would any normal battery last under that load?
Of course no one would see any of that? Most anything can be faked...
But was it??? Or, is it just Red Flags, only?
Anyways, the main thing is, who now holds Kapanadze's secret???
His son? The fat guy licking the ground line...
So, let's see if Verpies, will show us the proper way to obtain a similar 5000 watt working load, using his newest device approach, "Fuel Rings".
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 14:49:54
How long would any normal battery last under that load?
1.2kWh per litre for Lithium Thionyl Chloride military batteries or 0.78kWh per litre for common Lithium-ion 18650 batteries.
So to get your answer (in hours) you'd have to multiply these numbers by the available liters of the hidey holes and divide by the power of the load.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 14:49:54
Most anything can be faked...
The energy density (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#Other_release_mechanisms) test is a very solid test that cannot be faked. Sadly almost no one ever performs it.
So if you give me how many liters of hidey-holes there are in a device, I will tell you how long it will run with a given load and today's state-of-the-art batteries.
Of course, besides batteries there can always be hidden supply wires (including one-wire HF power transfer) and wireless energy transfer methods at short distances, but they are easy to detect with an AC H probe and an E probe.
They would be the first thing I would test for if I were on-site.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 14:49:54
Grum:
Then Tariel must have been a great magician. As he has done many videos in front of many witnesses, over the span of many years. And no one has been able to detect anything fradulent ever. Like 220 lines, that don't flicker when turning KW loads, like yours do.
Here every one uses electric hot water heaters for showers. I can't tell when any other house is using their electric shower, or tea pot. Mine does drop a bit, which is normal, at 5000 watt loads.
Ground lines are normally made of welding cable and are just a single multi strand wire, needing two other lines for a 220 volt power source, or what ever is supposedably hidden in the cement. How long would any normal battery last under that load?
Of course no one would see any of that? Most anything can be faked...
But was it??? Or, is it just Red Flags, only?
Anyways, the main thing is, who now holds Kapanadze's secret???
His son? The fat guy licking the ground line...
So, let's see if Verpies, will show us the proper way to obtain a similar 5000 watt working load, using his newest device approach, "Fuel Rings".
NickZ
Magician or no Nick, there's not been a single successful reported replication of any of these devices AFAIK to date.
With that video in question there was no third party involvement to check for anything out of the ordinary. I must admit to a smile as I watched the guy touch the, and I mention this loosely, the " Earth " wire with his tongue. Back in my days of working in the electricity supply industry we had one engineer that regularly " phased out " the LV ( 240/415 volt AC ) using his fingers. Good quality Rubber insulated soles to the shoes would mean that a body could rise to the potential and not feel a thing....
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.16, 14:44:24
But if these 50mm OD ones you linked are also OK, then they are a better match with the 50mm OD broadband cores i have now.
Are they ? Take a look at their ID (https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/inf/80/db/fer/r_50_0_30_0_20_0.pdf)...
They have even more permeable cores of 50mm OD here (https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/magnetics-a-division-of-spang-co/ZW44932TC/18626737) ...but look at their ID (https://www.mag-inc.com/Media/Magnetics/Datasheets/ZJ44932TC.pdf).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 17:31:34
Are they ? Take a look at their ID (https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/inf/80/db/fer/r_50_0_30_0_20_0.pdf)...
They have even more permeable cores of 50mm OD here (https://www.digikey.nl/en/products/detail/magnetics-a-division-of-spang-co/ZW44932TC/18626737) ...but look at their ID (https://www.mag-inc.com/Media/Magnetics/Datasheets/ZJ44932TC.pdf).
Yes, but does the ID matter so much?
Even if there is a 50 x 25 x 30mm LF core, its data will be so different to the broadband cores that the flux will be influenced very differently.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.16, 18:49:02
Yes, but does the ID matter so much?
Not much but a little - yes.
The other small problem is that a larger ID will not center itself on the former/carcass.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.16, 19:06:02
does ID mean information Data here ?
No, it means Internal Diameter.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 18:58:58
Not much but a little - yes.
The other small problem is that a larger ID will not center itself on the former/carcass.
The other small problem is not really a problem as i can easily 3D print a filler like i did with the Al ring.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 19:56:14
As it seams that most guys here prefer to do their own thing, I won:t bother to post anything more that you all will just object to.
Don't assume so much. You offered to post the video and it is on-topic. It does not matter that it does not fit the currently experimented on M.O.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 19:56:14
Other than to say that, when I look at the Akula, Ruslan, Stalker, videos there is nothing in their grenade cores.
If we assume that the great Delamorto is wrong and these devices are not fakes, then there are two other possibilities that reconcile the empty former tube on the inside, with the currently experimented on M.O.
1) Namely, the ferrite and fuel ring can be on the outside of the former tube and under the windings.
2) There is no ferrite or deliberate fuel ring in the device, but one is created inadvertently out of the copper in the windings.
This video (https://youtu.be/2Y8MCLN0xdg?t=199) supports this possibility ( turn on subtitles and auto-translation if you do not know Russian ).
Note: Neither the magnets nor the ferrite are absolutely necessary. It is possible to turn the magnetic field by 90° without them. It's just much more difficult to do because the permeability of the ferrite guides and amplifies the magnetic field of the coils and magnets lower the electric current requirement in the coils.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 20:10:37
Don't assume so much. You offered to post the video and it is on-topic. It does not matter that it does not fit the currently experimented on M.O.
If we assume that the great Delamorto is wrong and these devices are not fakes, then there are two other possibilities that reconcile the empty former tube on the inside, with the currently experimented on M.O.
1) Namely, the ferrite and fuel ring can be on the outside of the former tube and under the windings.
2) There is no ferrite or deliberate fuel ring in the device, but one is created inadvertently out of the copper in the windings.
This video (https://youtu.be/2Y8MCLN0xdg?t=199) supports this possibility ( turn on subtitles and auto-translation if you do not know Russian ).
Note: Neither the magnets nor the ferrite are absolutely necessary. It is possible to turn the magnetic field by 90° without them. It's just much more difficult to do because the permeability of the ferrite guides and amplifies the magnetic field of the coils and magnets lower the electric current requirement in the coils.
Exactly, I often stated what we believed to see doesn't have to be.
The only thing we see in the video's is the outside of the supposed grenade.. always with a lot of tape.
There can be whatever underneath.. ferrite, metal, chemicals batteries you name it.
Even the supposed connection we don't know for sure how it all is connected.
Neither could the kacher be a kacher or the inductor coil a coil driven by a pushpull.
This mythe has being actual for almost 20 years now.
If these setups do work we all did something fundamentally wrong in the last 2 decades.
Thats why we take a different path now.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 20:10:37
Don't assume so much. You offered to post the video and it is on-topic. It does not matter that it does not fit the currently experimented on M.O.
If we assume that the great Delamorto is wrong and these devices are not fakes, then there are two other possibilities that reconcile the empty former tube on the inside, with the currently experimented on M.O.
1) Namely, the ferrite and fuel ring can be on the outside of the former tube and under the windings.
2) There is no ferrite or deliberate fuel ring in the device, but one is created inadvertently out of the copper in the windings.
This video (https://youtu.be/2Y8MCLN0xdg?t=199) supports this possibility ( turn on subtitles and auto-translation if you do not know Russian ).
Note: Neither the magnets nor the ferrite are absolutely necessary. It is possible to turn the magnetic field by 90° without them. It's just much more difficult to do because the permeability of the ferrite guides and amplifies the magnetic field of the coils and magnets lower the electric current requirement in the coils.
.
Verpies:
You can assume all you want. So far none of your educated guessed have provided for the expected results.
Keep guessing....
NickZ
PS. The yoke is where the magnetic flip flop is happening, you can feel it in your bones. Or by placing a magnet near the yoke. This is the power house of these devices. The HV only acts to interfere and temporarily stop the strong near 1000 volt magnetic current. Like pinching a water hose. Nothing is added. This is an interuptor circuit. Like it or not.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 21:58:52
The yoke is where the magnetic flip flop is happening, you can feel it in your bones. Or by placing a magnet near the yoke. This is the power house of these devices.
I thought you abhored material sources of power :o Yoke is material and it is made out of ferrite. BTW: Have all devices, which you've found credible, had a yoke ?
Anyway, you could be right that the "power house" of the devices is the ferrite yoke. I will try that next in a different thread if this does not bear fruit. I can even use the magic Russian yoke of the STAAAR device.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.16, 21:58:52
The HV only acts to interfere and temporarily stop the strong near 1000 volt magnetic current. Like pinching a water hose. Nothing is added. This is an interuptor circuit. Like it or not.
You could be right, maybe the HV affects the yoke's ferrite in an unconventional way. This is more believable than energy from the ambient.
There are several technical corrections that I need to make to your statement, though:
"Magnetic current" is not measured in Volts but in Webers.
Also, "magnetic current" is properly called "magnetic flux".
BTW: "Magnetic voltage" is called MMF and is measured in ampturns.
Call it what you want. I am only stating what I see, or feel or intute. I am not trying to be right.
No need to fight and argue, I am on your side.
NickZ
Thanks, Verpies.
Those are the things that add and aid in these tests.
After many hours behind the wheel, some things will be known. Avoid obstacles...
NickZ
Well, the idea, as I see it is that, as the HV is tuned to affect the pp circuits. The additional energy is still coming from the ambient. If you think that the ferrite cores have something to do with any extra energy, that would need to be tested, as well. Could be, but I doubt it.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.17, 00:06:49
Well, the idea, as I see it is that, as the HV is tuned to affect the pp circuits.
Do you mean: ...to "affect" the electric circuit of the PP (e.g.: its driver) or the magnetic circuit of the PP (its transformer) ?
Like this ?:
( enable the subtitles and auto-translation to your language if you do not know Russian )
https://youtu.be/osIqJIum_3Y
https://youtu.be/AKdQbysXwng
https://youtu.be/dmRPc5QOWiU
https://youtu.be/aqdUKistxH0
https://youtu.be/MIxPLLbxU_8
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.17, 00:06:49
The additional energy is still coming from the ambient.
Is it possible that when the PP is affected by the HV, then it is simply drawing more current from its power supply ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.17, 00:06:49
If you think that the ferrite cores have something to do with any extra energy, that would need to be tested, as well. Could be, but I doubt it.
Of course.
According to what I understand from Itsu, it is more difficult to interupt the actual PP magnetic pulse, than to interupt the driver circuit operations, if I understood him correctly. So, I would guess that the easier path, may be what may be happening in this case. And, also the better tuned the resonance gets, the more input is drawn, from the input source.
At least in my case.
This is where things get tricky, and more research is needed. Both the PP circuit and Kacher circuits are no big deal, the trick lies in their interaction, incorporating the heart of the system, the ferrite yoke.
NickZ
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.17, 06:55:00
the question was how did you cook your tea. it's a question out side the box, I don't mind helping but I'm going no further. I will ask you all the same question how do you cook your food?
I make my tea in a resistively heated electric kettle. I cook my food on a gas burner. WTF?
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 07:19:30
I make my tea in a resistively heated electric kettle. I cook my food on a gas burner. WTF?
When the resistance or impedance of the output (load) is higher than supply circuit you get high efficiency... is it so hard to see ?
Capture reactive power and send it back into coil
Watch this https://youtu.be/LRFI0V-2DlA?si=gDgZy4CJecmRpenR
Those coils have different lengths and still able to amplify the energy, if you use equal lengths for each coil amazingly things happen even with 9 v battery
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 07:19:30
I make my tea in a resistively heated electric kettle. I cook my food on a gas burner. WTF?
So lets bend the thought angle a bit, what if we put a lump of ion in side the small tesla coil instead of the long primary winding what would happen ?
Notice the spread gap in the small winding andcontact area. of Akula one in his device
Sil
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.16, 22:44:21
I thought you abhored material sources of power :o Yoke is material and it is made out of ferrite. BTW: Have all devices, which you've found credible, had a yoke ?
Anyway, you could be right that the "power house" of the devices is the ferrite yoke. I will try that next in a different thread if this does not bear fruit. I can even use the magic Russian yoke of the STAAAR device.
You could be right, maybe the HV affects the yoke's ferrite in an unconventional way. This is more believable than energy from the ambient.
There are several technical corrections that I need to make to your statement, though:
"Magnetic current" is not measured in Volts but in Webers.
Also, "magnetic current" is properly called "magnetic flux".
BTW: "Magnetic voltage" is called MMF and is measured in ampturns.
Verpies,
Nice information regarding the options involving the yoke.
I agree that topic suits better in a different thread as it has almost no relation to the current testing on the ferrite/ magnet rings.
But I guess it would be helpfull if you could lead us into a short discovery on which phenomena in the yoke should have to take place.
I would propose to take the standard Ruslan setup as the basic setup and define some possible hypothesis to go forward.
With the standard Ruslan setup I mean kacher with anteena for HV HF generation, grenade as output coil, inductor as LF generator coil powered by the yoke/ pushpull units in a LC series loop.
At a startpoint probably we should mention the supposed M.O. and its failure.
This could open the stage for discovery on different paths forward.
After this stage of discovery we could decide to create one or more threads and proceed there.
These new threads same as this one have at least educational purpose and maybe useable for future ideas and information source.
Please let me know if you agree or see it differently?
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.17, 09:34:02
...what if we put a lump of ion in side the small tesla coil instead of the long primary winding what would happen ?
It wold cease to be a Tesla Coil. It would become an inductive heater and the lump of iron would heat up.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.17, 09:20:31
When the resistance or impedance of the output (load) is higher than supply circuit you get high efficiency... is it so hard to see ?
That is called MPTT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_transfer_theorem#Maximizing_power_transfer_versus_power_efficiency).
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.17, 09:20:31
Capture reactive power and send it back into coil
I've been there, done that. Even on this forum. Under unity.
Quote from: Classic on 2023.10.17, 09:20:31
Those coils have different lengths and still are able to amplify the energy...
I see current or voltage amplification, but no energy amplification.
average amps * average volts <> average watts, unless measuring DC.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.17, 09:35:22
But I guess it would be helpfull if you could lead us into a short discovery on which phenomena in the yoke should have to take place.
Perhaps one of these:
- Modulation of the core's permeability by strong electric field.
- Modulation of the core's permeability by the Villari effect.
- Transmutation the core's elements (stimulated by NMR or NAR).
- Yfree's acoustic nuclear "grinding" effect in the core's material.
- Smudge's Flux Capacitor which extracts energy from electron precession of a slow ferrite
- The suction of cosmic powers by the disturbed core - just for Nick ; ).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 10:09:28
Perhaps one of these:
- Transmutation the core's elements (stimulated by NMR or NAR).
I would prefer the NMR topic.
Attached a probably known document which was still in my archive from the old days.
This in my opinion would suggest the yoke has to be nearby the HF source.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.17, 06:55:00
Earlier on i asked 2 questions you Verpeis answered one of them, however Itsu didn't,
the question was how did you cook your tea. it's a question out side the box, I don't mind helping but I'm going no further. I will ask you all the same question how do you cook your food? and no! the yoke isn't the heart of it all it just brings things together, and the grenade doesn't behave just like a magnet or bunch of them, what of contact area ?
Sil
For goodness sake AlienGrey, get to the point please? Here in the country we're geared up for any eventuality, my cooking options are :- Oil, gas, electric, coal, charcoal and even a few candles....
If you have something to offer then please share it with the group? Don't forget that " Everyman's " box is unique to them and I don't have decades of time to solve other folks riddles.
Cheers Grum.
Transmutation of the yokes core elements? Great...
Are we guessing again...Would it not be better to try and show it doing so first.
NMR has already been discussed to no avail. Remember... And just how would that be proven?
My yoke has some millage on it already. After some years inside a Tv. And many overnight tests to see what gives.
NickZ
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.17, 10:43:34
I would prefer the NMR topic.
Attached a probably known document which was still in my archive from the old days.
This in my opinion would suggest the yoke has to be nearby the HF source.
Yes, and the yoke would have to be made out of slow ferrite to keep the frequencies sane.
Anyway, here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3847.0;attach=48657) is the continuation of that paper which you have attached.
I tried this without success because I could not switch the current quickly enough even into a one-turn winding.
Also, practically the energy needed to drive the MOSFETs at the required speed (without Q
gs recovery), was greater than the theoretical gain of the entire process.
I'd like to note that this was an engineering failure - not a theoretical failure.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.17, 13:19:01
NMR has already been discussed to no avail. Remember...
Resonating the spin precession of the electrons (Smudge's Flux Capacitor) or of the nuclei present in the core (NMR or NAR) or whatever is on the core, has been discussed before but the conditions required to achieve such resonances have never been achieved. Not even approached.
Even with the proton being ~1836 more massive than the electron and thus requiring much lower frequencies to resonate, the frequencies involved were still problematic.
The show stopper was the inter-turn capacitance and inter-layer-capacitance and inter-winding capacitance of the HF windings (no such problems with DC/LF bias windings, though).
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.17, 13:19:01
Transmutation of the yokes core elements? Great...
So don't discuss it Nick. It will just upset you.
You've already made you position clear. We all know you are allergic to the mere idea of it, the same way I am to the "energy from the ambient".
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 13:55:36
Yes, and the yoke would have to be made out of slow ferrite to keep the frequencies sane.
Anyway, here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3847.0;attach=48657) is the continuation of that paper which you have attached.
I tried this without success because I could not switch the current quickly enough even into a one-turn winding.
Also, practically the energy needed to drive the MOSFETs at the required speed (without Qgs recovery), was greater than the theoretical gain of the entire process.
I'd like to note that this was an engineering failure - not a theoretical failure.
So where would you place the ferrite, thev only place i can think of is between the Tesla coil and the grenade that would increase the contact area as the end of the Tesla coil is useless the way things are.
Opps have i confused every one >:-)
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 13:55:36
Yes, and the yoke would have to be made out of slow ferrite
Maybe it is a nothingburger but there was said Ruslan coocked his yokes. I don't know what effect it could have.
Dear Verpies.
Are you able to provide a link to the video of Wesley, Arunas, Tiger et al, demonstrating the STARR device please? I believe this was one of the most credible instances of " excess energy " production.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.17, 15:04:58
Are you able to provide a link to the video of Wesley, Arunas, Tiger et al, demonstrating the STARR device please?
It begins here (https://overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/msg303950/#msg303950).
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.17, 14:31:19
Opps have i confused every one >:-)
Yes. For Smudge's Flux Capacitor (Mapacitor) the ferrite should be sheathed in copper as depicted in this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3847.0;attach=48657) paper.
This is relevant to the shielded coil made out of the coaxial cable:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3735.msg72843#msg72843
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 15:38:34
This is relevant to the shielded coil made out of the coaxial cable:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3735.msg72843#msg72843
What if the secret is open coil shielded = capacitor ?
Then it will not work
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.17, 15:33:44
Yes. For Smudge's Flux Capacitor (Mapacitor) the ferrite should be sheathed in copper as depicted in this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3847.0;attach=48657) paper.
Can this be the copper from a coil arround the ferrite? Or does it have to be a solid box around the ferrite?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.17, 16:50:02
Can this be the copper from a coil arround the ferrite? Or does it have to be a solid box around the ferrite?
I think the former but ask Smudge.
:-*
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.17, 15:04:58
Dear Verpies.
Are you able to provide a link to the video of Wesley, Arunas, Tiger et al, demonstrating the STARR device please? I believe this was one of the most credible instances of " excess energy " production.
Cheers Grum.
Grum: That may have been the video where Wesley fell asleep that night, and nothing was caught on video, of lighting a 1000 bulb, using two signal generators. Just hear say ... nor has it ever been replicated, even by the same group.
Wesley's videos are found under the name Stivep1 on YT.
Too much vodka...that night.
NickZ
PS. Andrey245 is one of the few people on YouTube still active and showing new videos of the Ruslan type of interaction between the Kacher pulse on the PP circuit. And how the HV pulse works best at the negative PP pulse, and not at the peak. That is on a previous video to his last one posted just a few hours ago. If anyone is interested, you may want to check into it.
Talking about NMR we should take a look at this overview of elements
I had to 3D print the base and coil formers of the device as the long tests, when drawing the flux, caused the coil / cores to heat up above the used PLA plastic (blue) melting point.
I had to remove the coil, former and base the hard way as the former had shrank firmly around the cores and deformed the base former under its weight.
The new parts are made of Petg plastic (white) which should withstand some higher temperatures.
Here the ring magnets are split on the outside of the device in aiding mode causing a fairly broad parallel flux stretching from half the cores on both side of the Al ring.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49415;image)
I have changed the path to the picture, so it should show up now, i will do so for the earlier pictures too later on today.
Itsu
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 02:12:14
:-*
Grum: That may have been the video where Wesley fell asleep that night, and nothing was caught on video, of lighting a 1000 bulb, using two signal generators. Just hear say ... nor has it ever been replicated, even by the same group.
Wesley's videos are found under the name Stivep1 on YT.
Too much vodka...that night.
NickZ
PS. Andrey245 is one of the few people on YouTube still active and showing new videos of the Ruslan type of interaction between the Kacher pulse on the PP circuit. And how the HV pulse works best at the negative PP pulse, and not at the peak. That is on a previous video to his last one posted just a few hours ago. If anyone is interested, you may want to check into it.
Hi Nick.
The link that Verpies found was interesting but I recall watching one that had all the guys present, including Wesley, in the demonstration. Pretty sure there was an analog Ammeter involved and scope shot of the famous " Trumpet " wave too.
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.18, 10:55:19
The link that Verpies found was interesting but I recall watching one that had all the guys present, including Wesley, in the demonstration.
If you keep reading that thread, the link to that video will be there.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.18, 10:58:17
If you keep reading that thread, the link to that video will be there.
Ah.... No doubt the one that came back with " error 404 " then?
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.18, 11:09:01
Ah.... No doubt the one that came back with " error 404 " then?
If you keep reading that thread then this video (https://youtu.be/bJWxJsaxNvE?t=338) with the yoke and scopeshots comes up.
Note, that the dramatic increase in amplitude to hundreds of volts also happens only when the ferrite starts to chatter a.k.a. squeal.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.18, 11:38:48
I have changed the path to the above picture, so it should show up now, i will do so for the earlier pictures too later on today.
Itsu
Its visuable now
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.18, 09:24:09
Who cannot see the photo that Itsu has linked in the previous post ?
I already know that ChetK, Grumage, gyula, partzman, Smudge can see it.
And NickZ can see it as well.
Itsu: That overheating when ferrite is used in the grenade or Kacher cores, along with magnets always increased the draw from the input, and overheated my grenade, and other components. I think that that is why we don't see any ferrite or magnets on the Akula Ruslan type of rig. Or that they simply are not needed or used, to avoid that problem.
Verpies: As far as I've heard, the Tv yokes are originally made to run at 15KHz for a Tv, or so. Which is also the frequency that was shown by Ruslan's selfrunner, and others.
Here is a link to the Andrey245 video. You can also find other videos that he continues to put out.
. He is showing where the Hv pulse does the most good, on the PP pulse. Just as Stalker had mentioned and shown, as well.
There may also be a video of his showing the empty grenade former tube, and Kacher formers.
https://youtu.be/BnffgZc_GsA
This is what Stalker was showing. As a comparison. Hv pulse is placed at the negative of the PP pulse. Something which none of us have obtained.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 12:36:16
That overheating when ferrite is used in the grenade or Kacher cores, along with magnets always increased the draw from the input, and overheated my grenade, and other components. I think that that is why we don't see any ferrite or magnets on the Akula Ruslan type of rig. Or that they simply are not needed
The presence of the ferrite is
not responsible for one iota of heating under DC.
All of the heat is generated in the winding. "All" as in 100%.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 12:36:16
As far as I've heard, the Tv yokes are originally made to run at 15KHz for a Tv, or so.
That seems about right.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.18, 13:04:39
The presence of the ferrite is not responsible for one iota of heating under DC.
All of the heat is generated in the winding. "All" as in 100%.
That seems about right.
Verpies: Oh, you mean that my grenade former didn't melt when I placed Ferrite in the grenade tube. Well, sure looked like it to me.
That does not happen without filling the former with ferrite.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:24:46
Oh, you mean that my grenade former didn't melt when I placed Ferrite in the grenade tube.
No, we were writing about Itsu's former and you were were responding to Itsu's message in which he wrote about his melting former.
Not sure what you are getting at. I know what I see, not sure about Itsu's device coil, as that is something else.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:33:24
Not sure what you are getting at. I know what I see, not sure about Itsu's device coil, as that is something else.
It is simple. You were responding to Itsu about his device (not yours) and my comment was referring to it too.
See your own quote below:
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 12:36:16
Itsu: That overheating when ferrite is used in the grenade or Kacher cores, along with magnets always increased the draw from the input, and overheated my grenade, and other components. I think that that is why we don't see any ferrite or magnets on the Akula Ruslan type of rig. Or that they simply are not needed or used, to avoid that problem.
Not sure what you are after here. Or your diagram above.
I am relaying what happens when ferrite is placed inside an actual grenade or Kacher formers.
Not my imagination. I do have a big load on all the time. 500w or so. And am comparing it to MY grenade. And mentioning what happens. Are we talking about grenades here. Or something else.
So, use all the ferrite you like... We'll see how it goes, towards self running.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:48:46
Oh, sorry again, not sure what you are after here.
I am after precision...as always.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:48:46
I am relaying what happens when ferrite is placed inside...
Then you had changed the context and were writing about other devices than the one you were responding to Itsu about.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:48:46
an actual grenade or Kacher formers.
What is the definition of "the actual" grenade ?
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 13:48:46
Not my imagination...
You had imagined it in reference to the experiment that Itsu was writing about. You had not imagined it in reference to your own device.
Also, the heating of the ferrite is determined by its material-loss at a particular frequency, so if the ferrite in your device was heating up then it means that
you have inserted a low-frequency ferrite in a high frequency H-field.
This is nothing unusual but it is wrong for you to project this observation onto all types of ferrite (especially the high-frequency ones) and issue a blanket advisement against their usage on that basis.
I was posting to Itsu. Not sure what you are up to. As I know he knows what I mean. You obviously don't.
Nor even know what a grenade coil is, or what it does. Perhaps you should look into it, Proff.
So, it looks like you'd like to fry some ferrite, well, go right ahead. But, I'd be more interested in seeing what your
little yoke reactor can do, instead.
NickZ
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 14:23:19
I was posting to Itsu. Not sure what you are up to. As I know he knows what I mean.
Let's ask him.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 14:23:19
You obviously don't. Nor even know what a grenade coils is, or what it does.
A grenade is a composite coil with unknown morphology which superficially resembles the Sovet RGD33 grenade.
What is your definition ? ...it is the 2
nd time I am asking.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 14:23:19
So, it looks like you'd like to fry some ferrite,
No, not every type of ferrite heats up at these frequencies. Stop projecting your bad experience to all types of ferrite.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 12:36:16
Here is a link to the Andrey245 video. You can also find other videos that he continues to put out.
He is showing where the Hv pulse does the most good, on the PP pulse. Just as Stalker had mentioned and shown, as well.
There may also be a video of his showing the empty grenade former tube, and Kacher formers.
https://youtu.be/BnffgZc_GsA
I have observed such spikes when the tip of a half-wave dipole transmitting antenna arcs to ground. Also, through a GDT.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49276)
Note: In the diagram above, there should be an AC generator in place of R.By the same mechanism, these spikes should also happen when an antinode of a Tesla Coil discharges to ground on every swing.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4511.0;attach=49421)
Forest's idea to charge something by electrostatic induction and discharge it by conduction later, is applicable to the above.
Quote from: NickZ on 2023.10.18, 12:36:16
And NickZ can see it as well.
Itsu: That overheating when ferrite is used in the grenade or Kacher cores, along with magnets always increased the draw from the input, and overheated my grenade, and other components. I think that that is why we don't see any ferrite or magnets on the Akula Ruslan type of rig. Or that they simply are not needed or used, to avoid that problem.
Verpies: As far as I've heard, the Tv yokes are originally made to run at 15KHz for a Tv, or so. Which is also the frequency that was shown by Ruslan's selfrunner, and others.
Here is a link to the Andrey245 video. You can also find other videos that he continues to put out.
. He is showing where the Hv pulse does the most good, on the PP pulse. Just as Stalker had mentioned and shown, as well.
There may also be a video of his showing the empty grenade former tube, and Kacher formers.
https://youtu.be/BnffgZc_GsA
This is what Stalker was showing. As a comparison. Hv pulse is placed at the negative of the PP pulse. Something which none of us have obtained.
Nick,
As verpies also mentioned, the recent overheating of my coil in the Fuel-ring device which melted the PLA formers was purely due to the DC current through that bias coil.
When you came up with your "
overheating when ferrite is used in the grenade or Kacher cores" in the above quote caused some confusion as it was not related to my overheating of the fuel-ring device coil.
But i never experienced overheating when ferrite was used in my kacher (i did not use it in the Grenade), but i know the high current sloshing around in the Inductor series LC circuit did create a lot of heat and could potentially melt or weaken the PVC former where the Grenade and Inductor are on.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.18, 09:13:40
I had to 3D print the base and coil formers of the device as the long tests, when drawing the flux, caused the coil / cores to heat up above the used PLA plastic (blue) melting point.
Bummer...
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.18, 09:13:40
I had to remove the coil, former and base the hard way
With a chisel ?
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.18, 09:13:40
Here the ring magnets are split on the outside of the device in aiding mode causing a fairly broad parallel flux stretching from half the cores on both side of the Al ring.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49415;image)
I am sure that generated flux which is more parallel to the axis somewhere in the gap, but how much current does it take now to turn the flux perpendicular to the axis in the gap ?
Because the coil is now adjacent to the magnet, the magnet's flux has nowhere to go when the coil is powered up. Maybe the magnet will go...
QuoteWith a chisel ?
I had to use a hacksaw to start some cuts and use a screwdriver to peel it of from the core :(
QuoteI am sure that generated flux which is more parallel to the axis somewhere in the gap, but how much current does it take now to turn the flux perpendicular to the axis in the gap ?
Because the coil is now adjacent to the magnet, the magnet's flux has nowhere to go when the coil is powered up. Maybe the magnet will go...
It toke 5.5A to move the needle from 0° to 90°, and indeed caused the left most magnets to drop and/or move the coil to the right. :)
Itsu
QuoteItsu, your efforts are indeed greatly appreciated! Thank-you...
Picowatt,
thanks for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated and encourage me to continue.
Hopefully you and others will continue to be interested in these subjects and share your insights with me and verpies.
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.18, 14:39:03
I have observed such spikes when the tip of a half-wave dipole transmitting antenna arcs to ground. Also, through a GDT.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49276)
Note: In the diagram above, there should be an AC generator in place of R.
By the same mechanism, these spikes should also happen when an antinode of a Tesla Coil discharges to ground on every swing.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4511.0;attach=49421)
Forest's idea to charge something by electrostatic induction and discharge it by conduction later, is applicable to the above.
In the above post you show two animated drawings with activity along the length of the coil, In Nicks vids he tests
with his Led and coil also along the length 'Strange that'. Could that be the right hand rule thing ?
Also in Delamoto's diagram the flux rotates around the wire so in that case most of the flux wile be focused or most potent
along the length of the coil, thus suggesting the magnetic coil is incorrectly polorised. Just a thought.
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.19, 09:59:55
In Nicks vids, he tests with his LED and coil also along the length of 'Strange that'.
That is the correct method for determining the position of nodes and antinodes of standing waves along an antenna or a transmission line, including a helix.
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.19, 09:59:55
Also in Delamorto's diagram the flux rotates around the wire...
The flux always rotates around a current carrying wire. That is the right-hand rule.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2194.0;attach=11594)
If you have your coil on the lemgth of drain pipe coil your electric volts goes along the length
but I think you will find magnetic flux travels out the at 90 drg the side of the coil. thats why
the ferrite in a radio is horizontal not vertical ! You can see that trick in most of TK's vids.
This techneach is taken advantage of in inducion hobs where the element or coil is wound flat
to transfer maximum contact to the ion cooke ware. However thats Joel Lagace work on youtube and others.
https://www.youtube.com/@joellagace1679/videos
Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2023.10.19, 10:19:51
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2194.0;attach=11594)
If you have your coil on the lemgth of drain pipe coil your electric volts goes along the length
but I think you will find magnetic flux travels out the at 90 deg the side of the coil.
Yes, the flux exiting a helical winding eventually turns 90° at its ends, because it must loop around.
Also, if you look carefully at the diagram of the flux in a helical winding, which I had posted above, then you will notice that in some places adjacent to the wire, the flux is perpendicular, too. I have marked one such place with a red ellipse.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.18, 18:52:21
It toke 5.5A to move the needle from 0° to 90°, and indeed caused the left most magnets to drop and/or move the coil to the right. :)
Yeah, that means this position of the coil is not ideal for creating a bucking flux, but it gives us the upper boundary for the number of ampturns needed to rotate the flux in the gap.
The low-turn coil needed to accomplish that feat must be positioned adjacently to the gap, deliberately keeping some distance from the magnet, to give its flux some space to be expelled from the fast ferrite.
Do you have your gaussmeter already to check whether the flux density in the gap (B) satisfies the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD ?
The gaussmeter is expected to be here tomorrow, so i should have it before the weekend.
I removed the Al ring plus filler, so the mini compass could be inserted more in the center of the device.
Now it takes 3.5A to move the needle from 0° to 90° instead of the 5.5A with the big compass further away.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49443;image)
Looking good Itsu.... O0
One for Verpies now. Will the current requirement be lesser or greater once we narrow the gap to the 6 mm sample thickness?
I have managed to sort out a " back door " deal with a local EDM facility. They hope to be able to " spark " some Brass with around a 6 thou gap. Whilst I'm at it would it be prudent to make a Copper one too?
Cheers Grum.
I think I know why there is a need for "fish like" output from kacher or Tesla coil. It is needed to cumulate charge on one plate if capacitor taking current from ground up to the breakdown for whcih is used spark gap
Quote from: forest on 2023.10.19, 15:59:36
I think I know why there is a need for "fish like" output from kacher or Tesla coil. It is needed to cumulate charge on one plate if capacitor taking current from ground up to the breakdown for which is used spark gap
Which would mean that the breakdown must be tightly controlled/timed.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.19, 15:20:47
I removed the Al ring plus filler, so the mini compass could be inserted more in the center of the device.
Now it takes 3.5A to move the needle from 0° to 90° instead of the 5.5A with the big compass further away.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49443;image)
That's good news, so for a 5-turn 5Ω reactance
* coil to generate such opposing flux it would need to be pulsed with only 1.9kV.
*I am only guessing about the inductance and reactance of that 5-turn coil at this point.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.19, 15:39:43
One for Verpies now. Will the current requirement be lesser or greater once we narrow the gap to the 6 mm sample thickness?
Greater :(
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.19, 15:39:43Whilst I'm at it would it be prudent to make a Copper one too?
Yes. Copper is 100% wobbly although its resistivity sucks.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.19, 16:19:03
That's good news, so for a 5-turn 5Ω reactance* coil to generate such opposing flux it would need to be pulsed with only 1.9kV.
*I am only guessing about the inductance and reactance of that 5-turn coil at this point.
Are you suggesting that nano pulsing with approx. 1.9kV you oppose the field from the DC?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.19, 16:53:50
Are you suggesting that nano pulsing with approx. 1.9kV you oppose the field from the DC?
Yes, but I am not 100% certain whether the 1.9kV is enough because I do not know the inductance nor the reactance of that 5-turn coil at the needed frequency.
I will know the needed frequency once I calculate the 0° flux density in the gap ...or it is measured empirically. I've been dragging my feet with this calculation because, I trust empirical measurement more.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.19, 16:19:03
That's good news, so for a 5-turn 5Ω reactance* coil to generate such opposing flux it would need to be pulsed with only 1.9kV.
*I am only guessing about the inductance and reactance of that 5-turn coil at this point.
You mean the shape of the 5 turn determines its inductance/ impedance of this primairy coil (Lp)...so we need to calculate the puls frequency (fp)? Or do a test with variable fp?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.19, 17:16:43
You mean the shape of the 5 turn determines its inductance/ impedance of this primairy coil (Lp)
Yes, the inductance is mainly dependent on the coil's cross-sectional area and the permeability of the stuff inside it.
Reactance is dependent on the inductance and frequency.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.19, 17:16:43
...so we need to calculate the puls frequency (fp)? Or do a test with variable fp?
The pulse width (its fundamental frequency content) is determined by the choice of the fuel ring material and the magnetic flux density (B) in the gap (which cannot be smaller than B=70500 Gauss / mm OD ).
Iron has the lowest frequency requirement, but it has other serious problems like low skin depth and only 2.1% of it is susceptible to that pulse, while Copper, Manganese, Bismuth, Aluminum are 100% susceptible.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.19, 17:27:45
Yes, the inductance is mainly dependent on the coil's cross-sectional area and the permeability of the stuff inside it.
Reactance is dependent on the inductance and frequency.
The pulse width (its fundamental frequency content) is determined by the choice of the fuel ring material and the magnetic flux density (B) in the gap (which cannot be smaller than B=70500 Gauss / mm OD ).
Iron has the lowest frequency requirement, but it has other serious problems like low skin depth and only 2.1% of it is susceptible to that pulse, while Copper, Manganese, Bismuth, Aluminum are 100% susceptible.
So what exactly happens inside the Aluminium splitted rod with respect to the ferrite/ magnets and switching pulses?
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.19, 18:10:09
So what exactly happens inside the Aluminium splitted rod with respect to the ferrite/ magnets and switching pulses?
A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse which generates flux opposing the 0° field and amplitude increases.
This is the same effect as the one happening inside the core or windings of the transformer in this video (https://youtu.be/aqdUKistxH0?t=520).
( listen to the explanation, enable the subtitles and auto-translation to your language if you do not know Russian, warning: YT translates Push-Pull as "Guns" )
Afterwards you can watch other parts:
https://youtu.be/osIqJIum_3Y
https://youtu.be/AKdQbysXwng
https://youtu.be/dmRPc5QOWiU
https://youtu.be/aqdUKistxH0
https://youtu.be/MIxPLLbxU_8
Also, the STAAAR device had this 15t winding that had such low impedance at the 50Hz AC that was fed into it that it represented a virtual short circuit to that signal, yet the ferrite has behaved as if it has increased the inductance of this winding thousands of times and increasing the amplitude of this 50Hz signal on the secondary winding to hundreds of volts. See this (https://youtu.be/gbeseiPPCeM?t=192) and this (https://youtu.be/bJWxJsaxNvE?t=338) video.
All,
I have done a first clean up of posts back to page 11.
I will not modify other peoples posts I only delete non topic posts and direct responses.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.19, 20:30:30
I will not modify other peoples posts I only delete non topic posts and direct responses.
I, on the other hand, will not remove other people's post but will edit spelling mistakes in them, bad links and quote framing errors.
I would like to be able to
move some off-topic posts to other threads, but I think that will require bothering Peter more. Splitting seems to create a new thread every time :(
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.19, 18:37:34
A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse which generates flux opposing the 0° field and amplitude increases.
This is the same effect as the one happening inside the core or windings of the transformer in this video (https://youtu.be/aqdUKistxH0?t=520).
( listen to the explanation, enable the subtitles and auto-translation to your language if you do not know Russian, warning: YT translates Push-Pull as "Guns" )
Afterwards you can watch other parts:
https://youtu.be/osIqJIum_3Y
https://youtu.be/AKdQbysXwng
https://youtu.be/dmRPc5QOWiU
https://youtu.be/aqdUKistxH0
https://youtu.be/MIxPLLbxU_8
Also, the STAAAR device had this 15t winding that had such low impedance at the 50Hz AC that was fed into it that it represented a virtual short circuit to that signal, yet the ferrite has behaved as if it has increased the inductance of this winding thousands of times and increasing the amplitude of this 50Hz signal on the secondary winding to hundreds of volts. See this (https://youtu.be/gbeseiPPCeM?t=192) and this (https://youtu.be/bJWxJsaxNvE?t=338) video.
Interesting video's, showing the effect we are after in the Ruslan type of devices too, namely the effect that the Kacher / Tesla coil provides for the current while the Push-Pull provides for the voltage.
No input nor output measurements (voltage / current) are shown, so we cannot determine what circuit provides for what part of the input.
Output loads are a 40W bulb and 200W bulb.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.20, 08:55:49
Interesting videos, showing the effect we are after in the Ruslan type of devices too, namely the effect that the Kacher / Tesla coil provides for the current while the Push-Pull provides for the voltage.
In the 4
th part the author says that the effect happens inside the transformer and the TC only generates HV pulses to tickle the core of this transformer.
Ok, so the TC tickles the transformer to produce the extra current then.
I finished shielding the nano-pulse electronics in a metal box and made the same measurements (lower amplitude) as in this post: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107972#msg107972
I now cannot detect any effect from this 1.5kV nano-pulse both in the E and the H field.
Video here: https://youtu.be/MHp78MUVIUM
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49451;image)
Itsu
So, this puts to rest any unconventional behavior of terminated coaxial coils. I wish there was some unconventional effect but this experiment proves that terminated coaxial coils are nonsense.
Anything detected previously was only due to leakage or common-mode signals.
Please repeat this experiment two more times, with the end of the coaxial cable open and shorted. The unterminated end of the coax shall be shielded inside the copper tube/foil cage but isolated from the tube, just like it is now, in both cases.
Finally, when you take the big box apart to rescue your Peppermuntz, pay special attention to any damage the coax could have sustained during the soldering of the copper tube.
Well,
i have used a shorted coax end many times with the nano-pulser without problems, but i used it on an open coax end before which blew up the nano-pulser MOSFET, so i am reluctant to do this open end test.
Yes, I remember that you could not find a TVS diode to put across D-S of the MOSFET that would be fast enough and have a voltage rating similar to VDS_MAX.
Ok as this pulser has such fast TVS i did the tests and both (open coax and shorted coax) showed no effect on the probes similar as with a 50 Ohm load resistor.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.20, 14:43:16
Ok as this pulser has such fast TVS i did the tests and both (open coax and shorted coax) showed no effect on the probes similar as with a 50 Ohm load resistor.
That settles it then. Coaxial cable coils do not generate any external fields unless Aharonov–Bohm effect (https://youtu.be/YMjD8jevTUw?t=31) overturns that verdict.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.20, 16:51:57
That settles it then. Coaxial cable coils do not generate any external fields unless Aharonov–Bohm effect (https://youtu.be/YMjD8jevTUw?t=31) overturns that verdict.
Well, the word "any" maybe not a good expressions as we don't know what is present we aint detecting with the used probes.
Can you be more specific on which type of field.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.20, 17:44:33
Can you be more specific on which type of field.
Itsu did not detect any external B-field, H-field nor E-field.
The jury is still out on A and φ.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.19, 10:40:00
Yeah, that means this position of the coil is not ideal for creating a bucking flux, but it gives us the upper boundary for the number of ampturns needed to rotate the flux in the gap.
The low-turn coil needed to accomplish that feat must be positioned adjacently to the gap, deliberately keeping some distance from the magnet, to give its flux some space to be expelled from the fast ferrite.
Do you have your gaussmeter already to check whether the flux density in the gap (B) satisfies the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD ?
I got my gaussmeter (WT10A) and did some measurements.
The ring magnets i have show a value of max 150mT / ring (outside mostly) and when stuck together (4) they show a max value of 180mT.
With those 4 ring magnets stuck together on the right side of the device and measuring the flux in the Al ring gap (Al ring plus filler removed) the flux value varies from 61mT (right side gap / outside core) to 10mT (left side gap / outside core).
So i do not see how that relates to
"the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD"Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.20, 19:48:03
The ring magnets i have show a value of max 150mT / ring (outside mostly) and when stuck together (4) they show a max value of 180mT.
Since 1mT = 10 Gauss, the open magnets' surface flux density is 1500 Gauss. If the magnets were well yoked
* then their flux density would be double that value, i.e.: 3000 Gauss. The best ceramic magnets go up to 4200 Gauss.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.20, 19:48:03
With those 4 ring magnets stuck together on the right side of the device and measuring the flux in the netall ring gap (Al ring plus filler removed) the flux value varies from 61mT (right side gap / outside core) to 10mT (left side gap / outside core).
So i do not see how that relates to "the condition B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD"
Your maximum flux density (B) in the gap is 61mT, which is equal to 610 Gauss and your OD is 50mm, so:
610 > 70500 / 50 is false because 610 < 1410 G.
Your best flux density in the gap is 2.3 times too small to confine the fast electrons to the metal ring (actually more than that because your Al OD is less than 50mm.)
Thus the device will not work as it is now.
What flux density do you get in the gap if the magnets are placed on both sides of the sausages ?
What if the gap width is decreased to 6mm ?
Using more magnets or bigger/stronger ones, making the ferrite sausage shorter, making the sausage out of a more permeable ferrite, making the gap narrower, putting DC into that biasing coil (aiding), adding a second DC coil on the other side of the gap, yoking the entire device in a soft-steel frame - all increase the flux density in the gap. Take your pick.
Also, increasing the OD, lowers the minimal flux density (B)
requirement in the gap.
* magnetic yoke is a looped frame that decreases the reluctance for the return flux.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.20, 20:33:55
Your maximum flux density (B) in the gap is 61mT, which is equal to 610 Gauss and your OD is 50mm, so:
610 > 70500 / 50 is false because 610 < 1410 G.
So at that minimum flux density of 1410 G (141mT), the Aluminum ring needs to be resonated with 1.57MHz.
For frequencies of other metals, see
this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107628#msg107628).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 01:38:31
So at that minimum flux density of 141mT, the Aluminum ring needs to be resonated with 1.57MHz.
For frequencies of other metals, see this (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg107628#msg107628).
Verpies,
The above quote seems to indicate the effect being sought is NMR related. However, in a previous post you stated:
Quote from: verpies
A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse which generates flux opposing the 0° field and amplitude increases.
Is the effect being sought moreso related to NMR or some action involving free electrons?
How did you arrive at the the requirement for "B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" ?
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 02:19:30
The above quote seems to indicate the effect being sought is NMR related.
It is spin related. It seeks to reverse the spins and destabilize the nuclei of these elements.
I always knew that the decay of some nuclei could be influenced by external factor, such as ionization, e,g, see the spectacular example of
187Rhenium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_decay#Changing_rates) and GSI anomaly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSI_anomaly) but it wasn't until I read this patent (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=41978) which made me realize that certain RF absorption by the nuclei, can destabilize them, too. The result of this destabilization is the ejection of fast electrons (fast as in: 0.9c - not to be conflated with slow electrons of regular conduction).
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 02:19:30
However, in a previous post you stated:
"A stream of fast electrons starts circulating in the ring/rod. This has the effect of producing a strong current pulse..."
Is the effect being sought moreso related to NMR or some action involving free electrons?
It is a synergy of four mechanisms:
1) the destabilization of nuclei by specific RF absorbtion
2) the directionalized emission of fast electrons (not slow electrons of regular conduction)
3) the confinement/bending of the paths of the above by the static B (as in a cyclotron)
4) electron multiplication by secondary emission
Normally, the fast electrons are emitted in random directions, however the spin axis alignment caused by the magnetic field, directionalizes this emission.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49463)
In case of this device, it is a circular polarization of these directions.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49461)
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 02:19:30
How did you arrive at the the requirement for "B > 70500 Gauss / mm of OD" ?
From the Lorentz deflection radius of fast electrons (as in a cyclotron), with the assumption of their speed being 0.9c, according to:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2194.0;attach=18895)
That the Lorentz deflection of moving charged particles also applies to the trajectories of fast particles inside solid matter, is exemplified by the enhancement of PET imaging resolution in presence of constant magnetic fields.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3689.0;attach=30387)
The photo above also illustrates that the fast charged particles inside matter, survive for several millimeters between collisions, which is a huge distance on the atomic scale. ICRU Report #37 (https://www.icru.org/reports/) has more data about the mean free path of fast electrons inside metals.
QuoteWhat flux density do you get in the gap if the magnets are placed on both sides of the sausages ?
Then i get 60mT measured at both the left and right side of the gap on the outside (OD) of the cores (27mT in the middle of the gap near the center (ID) of the cores)
QuoteWhat if the gap width is decreased to 6mm ?
Then i get 116mT measured at both the left and right side of the gap on the outside (OD) of the cores (97mT in the middle of the gap near the center (ID) of the cores)
QuoteUsing more magnets or bigger/stronger ones, making the ferrite sausage shorter, making the sausage out of a more permeable ferrite, making the gap narrower, putting DC into that biasing coil (aiding), adding a second DC coil on the other side of the gap, yoking the entire device in a soft-steel frame - all increase the flux density in the gap. Take your pick.
Also, increasing the OD, lowers the minimal flux density (B) requirement in the gap.
Ok, i will try if i can increase the flux density above the 1410G by using any or all of these suggestions.
I have these 2 big ring magnets (140 x 60 x 20mm) which i expected to be much stronger, but they measure 100mT max. only, compared to the 150mT for the smaller magnetron ring magnets i use now.
Itsu
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 02:19:30
I get a 404 error, is it me ...
No, it is me. I will let you know when I find the correct link.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.21, 13:51:05
Ok, i will try if i can increase the flux density above the 1410G by using any or all of these suggestions.
Please try the easiest one first.
Also, always remember not to put opposing flux sources (repelling magnets, coils) next to each other without some space to squeeze out the flux. This will be especially true for the low-turn coil in the future, which will have to oppose the flux from the magnets and the DC/LF coil or coils. The low-turn coil can be right next to the gap but not right against a DC coil. Give it some space to squeeze out the flux out of the ferrite.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 13:58:25
No, it is me. I will let you know when I find the correct link.
Verpies,
Do you have the patent number?
PW
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 14:10:22
Please try the easiest one first.
Also, always remember not to put opposing flux sources (repelling magnets, coils) next to each other without some space to squeeze out the flux. This will be especially true for the low-turn coil in the future, which will have to oppose the flux from the magnets and the DC/LF coil or coils. The low-turn coil can be right next to the gap but not right against a DC coil. Give it some space to squeeze out the flux out of the ferrite.
Right, i tried reducing the number of soft cores from 6 (3 on each side) to 4 (2 on each side) and then the (aiding) flux density is 130mT on both sides of the gap (6mm).
After further reducing the number of soft cores to two (one on each side), i end up with a flux density of 160mT at both sides of the gap.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49465;image)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.21, 14:18:57
After further reducing the number of soft cores to two (one on each side), i end up with a flux density of 160mT at both sides of the gap.
Yes but now you have very little space for the DC coil and for the low-turn coil for pulsing.
Without the DC coil we cannot make an experiment to find out how many ampturns to put into the low-turn coil to turn the field 90° in the gap during normal operation ...and we cannot modulate the density of the 0° flux in the gap, at a low frequency. If you take up the entire width of the ferrite with a wide DC coil then the low-turn pulsing coil will have no room to squeeze out the flux from this DC coil and magnet.
Ok, so looking for a compromise using the other options......
How about this:
The low-turn pulse coil will be narrow. It does not need a breathing room to the right, because the gap is the breathing room there and that is where the flux is supposed to turn 90° anyway when the pulse coil is active.
However, the pulse coil needs some space to the left because the DC coil and magnets are there and we do not want to fight their flux at close quarters.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49469)
Yes, that might work, in this configuration i have about 190mT in the gap.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.21, 15:58:39
Yes, that might work, in this configuration i have about 190mT in the gap.
Yeah, but how many ampturns are needed to turn that flux in the gap by 90° now ? 8)
I have a couple of questions please?
How does the probe work? Is it directional? Will it be reading the flux from both sides ( placed between the gap )
Is there a method to calibrate the probe using known electrical formulae?
Cheers Grum.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.21, 17:41:26
How does the probe work?
It has charge carriers that are deflected sideways by Mr Lorentz in a slab of semiconductor., just like we are trying to do in the fuel ring (but circularly and with fast electrons). This is also known as the Hall effect.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.21, 17:41:26
Is it directional?
Yes, it is sensitive only to the perpendicular component of the flux. (perpendicular to its surface).
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.21, 17:41:26
Will it be reading the flux from both sides ( placed between the gap )
Yes, the magnetic flux has to penetrate the sensor (go through it) for it to work. It is not a probe that reads on its surface.
Quote from: Grumage on 2023.10.21, 17:41:26
Is there a method to calibrate the probe using known electrical formulae?
Yes. You would have to build two Helmholtz air coils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_coil) of very precise dimensions and connect them in series and apply a very precise DC through them, and put the probe exactly in the middle between these coils.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 16:32:32
Yeah, but how many ampturns are needed to turn that flux in the gap by 90° now ? 8)
I am printing a new coil former which should house these 530 turns of 0.8mm wire so i can make some measurements again.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 18:11:55
...
Yes. You would have to build two Helmholtz air coils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_coil) of very precise dimensions and connect them in series and apply a very precise DC through them, and put the probe exactly in the middle between these coils.
Verpies,
You can also do calibration with a reference magnet. There are a few low cost ones available on ebay with +/-2% accuracy. Tighter tolerance references are available at higher cost elsewhere.
Still waiting on that patent. Do you have a title, number, link, or any other clue that would let me search for it?
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 23:39:41
You can also do calibration with a reference magnet. There are a few low cost ones available on ebay with +/-2% accuracy. Tighter tolerance references are available at higher cost elsewhere.
You are absolutely correct but Grumage asked for a method that "uses known electrical formulae".
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.21, 23:39:41
Still waiting on that patent. Do you have a title, number, link, or any other clue that would let me search for it?
I promise you, I will post it here. I just have it on a computer that is in another house.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.21, 23:47:14
...
I promise you, I will post it here. I just have it on a computer that is in another house.
Verpies,
Thanks, I'll try to be patient. I am anxious to read the patent as it seems you are talking about some sort of nucleonic transformation/decay (dare I say transmutation?) that causes the nucleus to emit fast electrons (instead of high energy photons).
I would think that with all the spectroscopy research over the years, using NMR, EPR, ENDOR, etc., someone would have captured an anomaly related to a nucleonic event that released fast electrons and that there would be many papers published on the subject.
Please let me know if I am still not "getting it".
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.22, 00:03:58
I am anxious to read the patent as it seems you are talking about some sort of nucleonic transformation/decay (dare I say transmutation?) that causes the nucleus to emit fast electrons (instead of high energy photons).
What time zone are you in ?
Check the link in my post mentioning that patent, tomorrow.
Verpies,
I'm still trying to wrap my head around where the fast electrons come from. Something related to nucleon modification just seems a bit of a reach. How does one remove or modify a nucleon without that being a high energy event involving the emission of high energy photons or particles?
I can possibly envision a fast nucleus flip that causes orbital electrons to be ejected, but outer shell electrons are relatively low energy, and ionization within a conductor would likely be extremely brief or involve few or low energy electrons.
Ejection of inner orbital electrons would be much more energetic and would not require nucleon modification. Possibly flipping the nucleus fast enough, and perhaps with some shielding provided by outer orbital electrons having coupled to (resonated) with the nucleus, there may be some mechanism that would allow some inner shell electrons to be emitted and act as you suggested in your previous post.
I'll have to wait for the patent. I am both intrigued and befuddled...
PW
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 00:58:00
What time zone are you in ?
Check the link in my post mentioning that patent, tomorrow.
Verpies,
TZ is EST.
It would be more obvious and a bit easier to find if you could post the link in a new reply.
Thanks,
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.22, 01:05:47
I'll have to wait for the patent. I am both intrigued and befuddled...
All good things come to those who wait.
I fixed the link to the patent in reply #414 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108433#msg108433).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 08:27:34
All good things come to those who wait.
I fixed the link to the patent in reply #414 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108433#msg108433).
Verpies,
Thanks, I am reading it now...
PW
Latest vid from Andrey245, looks like Aluminium has a mayor potential.
It looks like a Bunk kind of setup.
https://youtu.be/6AojwY1z3sU?si=a27k-cZn9l_j9BoT
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 13:29:30
It looks like a Bunk kind of setup.
Yes, what does "Bunk" mean in this context ?
In English, the word "Bunk" does not have positive connotations.
The Russian title of the video states: "Bunk mania".
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 13:29:30
Latest vid from Andrey245, looks like Aluminium has a mayor potential.
Maybe, maybe not.
He is not doing these experiments methodically. Just tries random things like some members of this forum.
What is the thickness of the aluminum roll ? Diameters ?
What fields is this foil subjected to ? Magnitude, direction, frequency, type?
( these are not questions to you Ape )I find it curious that the bulb lights up only after he disturbs the wire junction with a screwdriver, like a "kick-start". Most electronic oscillators do not do that but there are some that do.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 14:13:37
Yes, what does "Bunk" mean in this context ?
In English, the word "Bunk" does not have positive connotations.
The Russian title of the video states: "Bunk mania".
No I mean the " Bunk" setup..
https://youtu.be/BmyOjsjzHi8?si=Kg3ferTG-Q5eJLOz
What I do know is there are 2 pieces of foil.. 25:75 length scale and a thin NiChr sparkgab in between.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 14:20:25
No I mean the " Bunk" setup..
Oh, you mean this (https://energyscience.ru/topic480.html).
The topic of this thread is "Установка Бунка & Гуглодрома" which translates to "The device of Bunk and Guglodrom", which must be the names/nicknames of the authors.
If you keep reading that thread the Bunk persona is also sometimes called "Bob" or "Wow".
It means that it is a replication of what a guy named "Bunk" has shown. His forum, or TY name is Bunk.
Ape: I once tried to connect a single 120v grid phase line to a 50w bulb, and then the negative end of the bulb to my earth ground line. This was to see if the house meter could be fooled. And it did light the bulb, but would not light a 100w one. So, maybe try a smaller bulb. like 25 to 50w, doesn't have to be a halogen bulb.
I have also tried just using my Kacher to light normal old style bulbs, through the rest of my grenade device, and earth ground but, without the PP being on. And the bulbs lit, as well. Up to partially lighting a 100w bulb, just from the Kacher, and with yoke/grenade all normally connected, but without the power on. I have a video of that, if interested. It is something like Andrey's video, but, using the Kacher only, to power through the grenade, to power up some bulbs, instead.
The screwdriver kick start, was how some of the Joule Thiefs had to be started as well.
NickZ
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 14:31:20
Oh, you mean this (https://energyscience.ru/topic480.html).
The topic of this thread is "Установка Бунка & Гуглодрома" which translates to "The device of Bunk and Guglodrom", which must be the names/nicknames of the authors.
If you keep reading that thread the Bunk persona is also sometimes called "Bob" or "Wow".
Yes, I believe your rigth.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 14:20:25
What I do know is there are 2 pieces of foil..
...or a slotted tube made out of one sheet of foil wrapped on some carcass.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 14:20:25
25:75 length scale and a thin NiChr sparkgab in between.
Where do you see a sparkgap in this video (https://youtu.be/6AojwY1z3sU)? How do you know it is made out of NiCr ?
Another thing that I have noticed in this video is that the mobile left and middle low-turn coils are wound oppositely (CW and CCW) and they are connected in series (so their magnetic fields are bucking) and the light bulb is connected in series with them, too.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 15:26:51
Where do you see a sparkgap in this video (https://youtu.be/6AojwY1z3sU)? How do you know it is made out of NiCr ?
Another thing that I have noticed in this video is that the mobile left and middle low-turn coils are wound oppositely (CW and CCW) and they are connected in series (so their magnetic fields are bucking) and the light bulb is connected in series with them, too.
I don't know Andrey uses a SG.
Yes the output coils are connected as you say.
Could they be electrostatically being charged as if it was magnetic induction the bulb would have no voltage.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 15:37:35
Yes the output coils are connected as you say.
Could they be electrostatically being charged as if it was magnetic induction the bulb would have no voltage.
Mathematically speaking, the incandescent bulb's brightness depends only on the current flowing through it, according to P=i
2R. There is no voltage in that equation!
I would like to see the shape of current flowing through this bulb. This is easy to do with a current sensing resistor (and even easier with a clamp-on probe).
If you know how to ask him a question, at least ask what his frequency is. In Russian: "какая у тебя частота ?".
If you feel really brave you can also ask him about the shape of the current waveform. In Russian: "Какая у тебя форма электрического тока, проходящего через лампочку?"
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 15:49:07
Mathematically speaking, the incandescent bulb's brightness depends only on the current flowing through it, according to P=i2R. There is no voltage in that equation!
I would like to see the shape of current flowing through this bulb. This is easy to do with a current sensing resistor (and even easier with a clamp-on probe).
If you know how to ask him a question, at least ask what his frequency is. In Russian: "какая у тебя частота ?".
If you feel really brave you can also ask him about the shape of the current waveform. In Russian: "Какая у тебя форма электрического тока, проходящего через лампочку?"
I dont think something will come up as Bunk himself is not on the forum for a long time.
Therefor I can see if there is something available.
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 16:14:07
I dont think something will come up as Bunk himself is not on the forum for a long time.
I did not mean to ask Bunk but Andrey245.
If the power supply is supplying 10ma @ 32VDC then it is not enough to light an incandescent bulb like that.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 16:38:03
I did not mean to ask Bunk but Andrey245.
Ok.. i copy the questions i his comment section
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 16:38:03
I did not mean to ask Bunk but Andrey245.
If the power supply is supplying 10ma @ 32VDC then it is not enough to light an incandescent bulb like that.
The only way is that his primairy coil is not as we think it is... sounds wierd but could it be coax and connected as a cap.
Else this kacher config would easily draw 15Watts
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 17:19:39
Else this kacher config would easily draw 15Watts
Maybe it does.
He does not show the display of his DC power supply when the bulb is lit up ...but some fan can be heard slowing down.
He only says that the supply current is ALMOST the same with the load as at idle.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 17:40:24
Maybe it does.
He does not show the display of his DC power supply when the bulb is lit up ...but some fan can be heard slowing down.
He only says that the supply current is ALMOST the same with the load as at idle.
We need more answers or have to find out ourselves 8)
Attached a impression how the Bunk device could be configured
Quote from: Apecore on 2023.10.22, 18:32:22
Attached a impression how the Bunk device could be configured
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4515.0;attach=49481)
If Andrey245's foil tube is layed out the same as Bunk's, then this could be how it is connected.
People keep asking me by PM what a Magnetic Yoke is.
I already wrote that it is a frame that provides a low reluctance path for the return flux outside of the device.
It doesn't have to have anything to do with old CRT TVs !
See below:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49488)
(https://i-mri.org/ArticleImage/1040IMRI/imri-23-179-g004-l.jpg)
Q: What use is it ?
A: For example the flux density between these two magnets is 2x stronger when the magnets are inside the yoke, compared to - when they are not. Yokes also shield the magnetic field by channeling it and not allowing the return flux to spread outside of the device.
Magnetic Yokes can be made out of soft steel or permalloy or ferrite. The latter can support HF alternating magnetic fields inside it, because it is not conductive (no eddy currents to oppose the changes in flux).
Permanent magnet's datasheets list their remanent magnetization (Br) values in the yoked configuration, so don't be surprised when your brand new spanking "1-Tesla" magnet reads only half of that value on its surface without a yoke.
I made a new coil former and arranged the device as to be sismilar as suggested here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108445#msg108445
The compass shows a parallel needle about half way in between the magnets
The new coil (530 turns 0.8mm wire) shows to deliver about 155mT when powered by 8A flowing through it.
First tests with the magnets in aiding mode shows no result to have the needle of the compass deviate 90° in the gap (or rather close by the gap).
Both the coil and the right most magnets want to shoot out to the right and need to be confined somehow.
More tests to follow.....
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49490;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.24, 08:21:05
The new coil (530 turns 0.8mm wire) shows to deliver about 155mT when powered by 8A flowing through it.
The coil generates the 155mT of 0° flux in the gap or the magnets ?
The coil when stand alone (with one soft core inside) generates the 155mT @ 8A
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.24, 11:58:23
The coil when stand alone (with one soft core inside) generates the 155mT @ 8A
Oh, so there is no gap in this measurement ? No magnetic yoke, just a surface reading of an open magnetic circuit with the coil and 1 soft ferrite in it ?
Right.
I found this calculator: https://www.calctool.org/electromagnetism/solenoid-magnetic-field for calculating the magnetic field in a solenoid and it seems pretty accurate when entering my data (8A, 3cm length, 530 turns):
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49496;image)
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.22, 17:40:24
Maybe it does.
He does not show the display of his DC power supply when the bulb is lit up ...but some fan can be heard slowing down.
He only says that the supply current is ALMOST the same with the load as at idle.
Also a difference in kacher driving is the capacitor which is connected at the low end of the secundairy.
Does this delivers a phase shift?
On the other hand the 3rd option taking the low power consumption in account is interupting.. as his circuitboard has a IC on it as wel.
Ps, didn't get a reply on the question to him.
Using the below shown setup (magnets aiding) i tried to make a measurement above the gap to see how the flux density changes under influence of the flux buildup through the coil (0 - 8A).
So with 0 A current through the coil i measure S 25.6mT:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49516;image)
With 8A through the coil we have S 65.9mT
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49518;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.25, 20:04:17
So with 0 A current through the coil i measure S 25.6mT:
Since your Hall probe is oriented to measure the 90° flux in the gap, the ideal reading exactly in the middle of the gap should be 0mT.
It should be possible to twist the Hall probe in the middle of the gap, in such a way as to get a lower reading (lower is good in this case).
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.25, 20:04:17
With 8A through the coil we have S 65.9mT
In this case, the flux in the gap is bucking thus it is more perpendicular to the axis, so it is not a surprise that your 90° Hall probe measures a higher value than with 0A experiment.
You might be able to twist the Hall probe in such a way as to get a higher reading (higher is good in this case).
Of course, if you rotate the probe 90° in
both experiments, then you should get opposite readings, i.e.: higher with 0A and lower with 8A.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49520)
QuoteSince your Hall probe is oriented to measure the 90° flux in the gap, the ideal reading exactly in the middle of the gap should be 0mT.
It should be possible to twist the Hall probe in the middle of the gap, in such a way as to get a lower reading (lower is good in this case).
Correct, in the middle of the gap (i drilled a hole in the former holding the cores and magnets) i have 0mT with only the magnets in aiding mode (0A through the coil).
QuoteIn this case, the flux in the gap is bucking thus it is more perpendicular to the axis, so it is not a surprise that your 90° Hall probe measures a higher value than with 0A experiment.
You might be able to twist the Hall probe in such a way as to get a higher reading (higher is good in this case).
Not sure what twist means here, as in from horizontal to vertical or up to down, but when doing the latter, it shows more mT when going down (towards the gap).
QuoteOf course, if you rotate the probe 90° in both experiments, then you should get opposite readings, i.e.: higher with 0A and lower with 8A.
Correct.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.26, 19:18:04
Correct, in the middle of the gap (i drilled a hole in the former holding the cores and magnets) i have 0mT with only the magnets in aiding mode (0A through the coil).
That's great but unfortunately that is not where the ring will be.
I did not expect you to drill a hole and put the probe on the major axis of the entire device.
I meant something else by "middle of the gap". I can see I must make a drawing.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49530)
According to this drawing "middle of the gap" denotes the distance between the two flat surfaces of the ferrite/magnet which is parallel to the Z axis.
I did not mean to imply R=0.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.26, 19:18:04
Not sure what twist means here
Even more reasons to make a drawing with the coordinate axes marked.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.26, 19:18:04
...as in from horizontal to vertical or up to down
These would be translations.
The center of the Hall sensor can be translated in 3 directions and rotated around 3 axes. That's 6 degrees of freedom (DOF), total.
In this case - translated in only 2 directions (parallel to the axis Z or R) because the device has a cylindrical symmetry. 5° of DOF.
A twist is synonymous with rotation. In English, twisting means rotation around the longest axis of an object (e.g. the way a screwdriver is usually twisted). But in this case - I was referring to the probe (which meant - around the A axis).
As I was digging in old information I found this interesting document about Ferro-Magnetic electron spin.
Maybe you seen it before but the conclusion is rather remarkable as I understand this is what we try to achieve here.
Verpies,
I am still fuzzy with regard to what is planned for the sausage Itsu is working on.
So far, this is all I got:
1. A "fuel" is positioned in a B field (as homogenous as possible I imagine) with the B field strength dictated by the fuel's diameter and a cyclotron formula based on fast electrons.
2. At some point, one pole of the magnet assembly providing the B field will have its polarity reversed so that the "fuel" is now between two magnetic poles of similar polarity and strength (using a low turn, high speed coil driven at HV to attain the required ampere turns to attain this condition).
After this, its a bit fuzzy for me. NMR frequencies have been discussed, as well as a DC and/or low frequency coil.
How does NMR play into this. How will the required energy/frequency for NMR be coupled to the "fuel"?
Is the DC coil for fine B field adjustment or is the DC/LF coil for something else?
Do you plan to have a separate RF source at a right angle to the B field for NMR based precession phase alignment and spin flipping?
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.28, 00:39:53
2. At some point, one pole of the magnet assembly providing the B field will have its polarity reversed...
The reversal of one pole of the magnetic assembly, does not mean that the magnetic field in the middle of the gap will be reversed, too. It means that in the middle of the gap, the flux will be turned perpendicularly to the axis of the entire device (radially).
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.28, 00:39:53
Do you plan to have a separate RF source at a right angle to the B field
No, the reason for it should be evident from the above.
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.28, 00:39:53
...so that the "fuel" is now between two magnetic poles of similar polarity and strength (using a low turn, high speed coil driven at HV to attain the required ampere turns to attain this condition).
Yes and subjected to radial flux which tilts the spins.
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.28, 00:39:53
Is the DC coil for fine B field adjustment
Right now it is for testing of the field strengths and flux directions. In operation, yes - for fine B
0 field adjustment (in aiding mode).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.28, 01:22:18
The reversal of one pole of the magnetic assembly, does not mean that the magnetic field in the middle of the gap will be reversed, too. It means that in the middle of the gap, the flux will be turned perpendicularly to the axis of the entire device (radially).
Yes, but this is accomplished by making both poles of equal polarity and strength (necessitating reversing the polarity of one pole).
The present experiment (with the large DC coil) is for the purpose of determining the required ampere turns necessary to make the opposing poles identical in polarity and strength.
With the large DC coil turned off, and with the measurement probe oriented so that its detection axis is parallel to the long axis of the sausage, the probe will show a certain B field strength and polarity (as if the probe is between two magnets with opposite polarities facing each other).
While maintaining that same measurement probe orientation, when the large DC coil is activated (assuming the required ampere turns are applied), the probe will measure minimal or no field strength, and rotation of the probe 180 degrees about its long axis would show minimal change because both pole faces are now the same polarity and strength (as if the probe is between two magnets of identical strength and with like poles facing each other)
Ultimately this means reversing the polarity of one pole piece (via the large DC coil or ultimately with the high speed coil).
I would think the radial flux you are wanting to achieve would not be very homogenous over a very large area within the sample (likely only ring shaped zones of equal strength), and if so, this would greatly broaden the bandwidth of the required NMR frequency throughout the "fuel" (i.e., different areas will have a different resonant frequency). I'm no NMR expert, but I question whether phase alignment of the precessions or spin flip saturation can be achieved using the field modulation you propose.
Typically, once the B field is applied to a sample, the perpendicular RF field strength necessary to phase align the precessions is fairly low, with a bit more field strength required to achieve spin flip and moreso for spin flip saturation. Rather than having to increase the RF field strength, the use of a very stable and homogenous B field and a stable RF source can allow spin flip saturation to be achieved by applying the RF field for a longer period of time instead of increasing its strength.
I had assumed that you wanted to achieve the highest energy level within the sample, i.e., precession synchronization and spin flip saturation, using NMR, and then use a second probing frequency or impulse of some sort to couple additional energy/harmonics into that state. That does not seem to be the case with this setup.
It will be interesting to see where this goes. If you feel that fast electrons will indeed be emitted and that these will induce/cause a usable current flow (as opposed to emiting beta rays, x-rays, etc), perhaps consider using aluminized/metalized dielectric film (mylar, etc) cut out and stacked similar to a bitter magnet. The last layers of the stack can be cut to have tabs extending out of the "fuel" area so that you can probe for current flow. Use of thin, insulated layers may be sufficient to reduce eddy currents so that a slot does not need to be cut into the "fuel". Additionally, the sections could be cut so that "fuel" only exists where your "cyclotronic" track is expected to be.
PW
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.26, 20:19:39
That's great but unfortunately that is not where the ring will be.
I did not expect you to drill a hole and put the probe on the major axis of the entire device.
I meant something else by "middle of the gap". I can see I must make a drawing.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49530)
According to this drawing "middle of the gap" denotes the distance between the two flat surfaces of the ferrite/magnet which is parallel to the Z axis.
I did not mean to imply R=0.
Even more reasons to make a drawing with the coordinate axes marked.
These would be translations.
The center of the Hall sensor can be translated in 3 directions and rotated around 3 axes. That's 6 degrees of freedom (DOF), total.
In this case - translated in only 2 directions (parallel to the axis Z or R) because the device has a cylindrical symmetry. 5° of DOF.
A twist is synonymous with rotation. In English, twisting means rotation around the longest axis of an object (e.g. the way a screwdriver is usually twisted). But in this case - I was referring to the probe (which meant - around the A axis).
Ok about the "middle of the gap", not on the Z axis, but between the two flat surfaces of the ferrite/magnet.
Concerning twisting, i know it as you said by twisting (turning) a screwdriver, but in post #462 you mention:
QuoteSince your Hall probe is oriented to measure the 90° flux in the gap, the ideal reading exactly in the middle of the gap should be 0mT.
It should be possible to twist the Hall probe in the middle of the gap, in such a way as to get a lower reading (lower is good in this case).
So i understand from that that having my probe horizontally in the middle of the gap it should be reading 0mT and if not, by twisting it to get a lower reading.
While further down you write:
QuoteOf course, if you rotate the probe 90° in both experiments, then you should get opposite readings, i.e.: higher with 0A and lower with 8A.
From that i understand that rotating (twisting again) the probe 90°, i should get a higher reading (at 0A), which is opposite to your first statement (lower reading).
So i was asking myself what is the difference between the first twist and the second.
Itsu
I now see what you mean when you mention twist the probe.
It is a very subtle twist, only a fraction of a degree is needed to go to 0mT when the probe is in the middle of the gap.
The probe should be perfectly flat parallel to the Z axis and perpendicular to the sides of the core / magnet.
Here you can see that the probe shows 0mT in the middle of the gap where the ring would be with 0A through the coil.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49536;image)
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.28, 18:53:07
I now see what you mean when you mention twist the probe.
The best position for the probe is where it can sense the radial flux.
This is when the probe's A axis is perpendicular to the R axis and Z axis, while its C axis is parallel to the Z axis, and its B axis coincides with the R axis, while the center of the Hall sensor (the red dot) is in the "middle of the gap" and somewhere between OD and ID of the ferrite sliding on the R axis. The diagram below depicts this, when the Z axis is poking you in the eye.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49553)
I think your last photo almost shows this position, but I don't know whether you aimed for it purposely or achieved it inadvertently.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.28, 18:53:07
It is a very subtle twist, only a fraction of a degree is needed to go to 0mT when the probe is in the middle of the gap.
Yes and in this position the probe should be insensitive to the flux parallel to the Z axis and maximally sensitive to the flux parallel to the R axis.
This means, that when you apply current to the DC coil, whatever the Hall probe reads in this position will be the radial component of the curved flux in the gap.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.28, 18:53:07
The probe should be perfectly flat parallel to the Z axis and perpendicular to the sides of the core / magnet.
Yes, I would rewrite the above as:
The probe's C axis should be parallel to the devices Z axis and perpendicular to the sides of the core / magnet.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.28, 18:53:07
Here you can see that the probe shows 0mT in the middle of the gap where the ring would be with 0A through the coil.
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49536;image)
Very nice and if you want to measure the 0° flux density in the gap (with 0A through the coil) then all you have to do is twist the probe 90° (around the A axis).
Coincidentally, in this twisted position, the probe should be maximally
insensitive to the radial flux, so when you put 8A
* through the DC coil, it should read 0mT.
* ...or whatever the ampturns in that coil need to be, in order to perfectly oppose the magnet's flux in the gap.
Itsu,
Using the setup in your image...
While you have the field nulled with the DC coil activated, and the probe rotated to measure that null, what is the maximum field strength you can achieve when you rotate the probe an additional 90 degrees? (rotate the probe as necessary to achieve a max reading)
With the DC coil deactivated, what is the maximum field strength? (again, rotate the probe as necessary to achieve a max reading).
PW
Added: For clarity, by "rotate" I mean twist as you would a screwdriver...
verpies, PW,
It takes some time (minutes) to position the probe on the correct positions which is OK with no power through the coil, but with 8A through it, i have only a minute or so before the coil heats up too much.
But i was able to make these measurements with the probe in the middle of the gap:
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 0A S 0mT
0° 8A S 6.8mT (cannot get it to 0mT)
90° 0A S 171mT
90° 8A S 104mT
Itsu
Its possible to get 0mT with the probe in 0° position while 8A running through the coil, but its in another tilt position compared with 0A through the coil.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
verpies, PW,
It takes some time (minutes) to position the probe on the correct positions which is OK with no power through the coil, but with 8A through it, i have only a minute or so before the coil heats up too much.
But i was able to make these measurements with the probe in the middle of the gap:
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 0A S 0mT
0° 8A S 6.8mT (cannot get it to 0mT)
90° 0A S 171mT
90° 8A S 104mT
Itsu
Itsu,
If I understand this correctly, the max field strength of the field parallel to the sausage axis with the coil deactivated is 171mT (seems low...).
And, the max field strength when measuring the strength of the radial field produced when the DC coil is activated is 104mT. Is that correct?
I would have guessed the difference between the parallel and radial vector measurement would have been greater.
Do you have any idea why you can't get a perfect null with the DC coil activated? Can you achieve a null by adjusting current in the coil?
PW
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:28:08
Its possible to get 0mT with the probe in 0° position while 8A running through the coil, but its in another tilt position compared with 0A through the coil.
Itsu,
Does your measurement probe have a well defined/labeled measurement axis? I had assumed that the hall device was positioned in the probe such that one of the wide flat sides of the probe was one pole with the other pole on the opposite side.
PW
QuoteIf I understand this correctly, the max field strength of the field parallel to the sausage axis with the coil deactivated is 171mT (seems low...).
And, the max field strength when measuring the strength of the radial field produced when the DC coil is activated is 104mT. Is that correct?
That is correct.
QuoteDo you have any idea why you can't get a perfect null with the DC coil activated? Can you achieve a null by adjusting current in the coil?
I can, see my update on that above, but it takes time to position the probe which i do not have with 8A through the coil.
Itsu
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.29, 21:39:14
Itsu,
Does your measurement probe have a well defined/labeled measurement axis? I had assumed that the hall device was positioned in the probe such that one of the wide flat sides of the probe was one pole with the other pole on the opposite side.
PW
Well, not really, its denoted by a black dot and not right in the middle, so i try to put the dot in the middle of the gap and tilt it till it reaches 0mT, see:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49557;image)
Itsu
Itsu,
The reason I asked for those measurements was to determine the strength of the parallel field versus the rotated radial field.
Another interesting measurement would involve trying to determine how homogenous the fields are.
When nuclei with a net spin are placed in a homogenous B field, some spins will align like a compass would (lets call them spin up), some will align opposite to that (spin down). Spin up would be a low energy state and a majority of nuclei will be in that low energy spin state. If the B field is homogenous and stable, the nuclei will act as mini receivers all tuned to a specific frequency (the NMR frequency for that nuclei and B field strength).
All of the nuclei will be precessing at the same frequency, but at random phase orientations. Injecting a little RF at a right angle to the B field and at the NMR frequency will cause all the precessions to become in phase. (Similar to the many videos of multitudes of metronomes eventually synchronizing with each other provided they are on a platform with some degree of freedom. The slight horizontal motion of the platform being analogous to the applied RF).
By adding a bit more RF strength (or time) we can cause some of the spin down nuclei to flip and orient themselves spin up as well. At some point, spin flip saturation is reached, and no more spin down nuclei can be flipped to spin up. This is a high energy state. (For spectrometry purposes, the RF is then abruptly turned off and a receiver "listens" for emitted RF as the nuclei relax and return to their state prior to the applied RF)
A non-homogenous B field causes all the nuclei to be tuned to different resonant frequencies dependent on the field strength at their location. Modulating the B field strength will also vary the resonant frequency.
I suspect trying to turn the B field vector to a radial one at or near the NMR frequency will not achieve resonance due to the changing B field strength the nuclei will experience during the transition/field modulation.
Perhaps NMR type resonance is not required for what Verpies has in mind.
As I previously stated, I would have guessed that the field strength difference between the "parallel to the sausage vector" versus the "90 radial vector" would have been greater than observed. Perhaps the measured difference is also dependent on pole piece separation distance and measurement position within the gap.
PW
Itsu,
As a side note, I have often wondered if something like your VNA could be used to detect achieving NMR. Somewhat similar to using a grid dip oscillator, I would think one would see some measurable change in the RF drive signal when resonance was achieved. However, I do not know if that change would be too subtle to detect this way.
Just food for thought...
PW
Assuming that the probe's probe's A axis is perpendicular to the R axis and to the Z axis of the sausage, while the center of the Hall sensor (the red dot) is in the "middle of the gap" and somewhere between OD and ID of the ferrite rings, sliding on the R axis, like this:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4525.0;attach=49553)
The diagram above depicts this, when the Z axis is poking you in the eye.
- Assuming that the 0° probe rotation also means that its C axis is parallel to the Z axis, and its B axis coincides with the R axis. Consequently, the 0° probe rotation is sensitive to the radial flux and insensitive to the axial flux.
- Assuming that the 90° probe rotation also means that its B axis is parallel to the Z axis, and its C axis coincides with the R axis. Consequently the 90° probe rotation is insensitive to the radial flux and sensitive to the axial flux.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 0A S 0mT
90° 0A S 171mT
This is good.
The 171mT might not be an impressive axial flux density, but it satisfies your cyclotron confinement radius.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 8A S 6.8mT (cannot get it to 0mT)
This is wrong.
The 0° probe rotation is sensitive to the radial flux, so it should read the
maximum radial flux density, when 8A flows through the DC coil.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
probe position current through coil flux measured
90° 8A S 104mT
This is wrong.
The 90° probe position is sensitive to the axial flux, so it should read the
minimal axial flux density, when 8A flows through the DC coil (ideally 0mT).
If the reading is high with the 90° probe rotation and 8A, then it could mean that there are too many or too few ampturns flowing through the coil to balance the magnet's flux ...and/or the coil is positioned a wrong distance from the gap.
Verpies,
I was under the impression that Itsu's measurements were made with 0 degrees meaning his measurement axis was parallel to the sausage center line and that the 90 measurement were with the measurement axis perpendicular to the sausage center line (i.e., parallel to the radial vectors).
Perhaps I misunderstood...
PW
PW:
If that was the case then the measurement below would not make sense:
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 0A S 0mT
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4477.0;attach=49363)
Anyway, let him clarify.
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.30, 00:36:34
If that was the case then this measurement would not make sense:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4477.0;attach=49363)
Verpies,
You are indeed correct...
I was only interested in the two maximum readings (parallel flux and radial flux).
The 171mT is the field strength with measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis and no DC applied to the coil, and the 104mT is the field strength with the measurement axis perpendicular to the sausage axis (parallel to the radial vectors) when DC is applied to the coil. (see reply 479)
However, after rereading #475, I see the confusion as well...
PW
PW, verpies,
QuoteAnother interesting measurement would involve trying to determine how homogenous the fields are.
The fields are not homogenous, as far as i can see as moving the probe from OD to ID shows many fluctuations.
Also measuring a single magnet across its surface shows many different readings.
Another problem is the positioning of the probe when probing inside the gap as we have many "degrees of freedom" to control.
QuoteAnyway, let him clarify.
This picture shows me having the probe in what i call the 0° position:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49536;image)
QuoteThis is wrong.
The 0° probe rotation is sensitive to the radial flux, so it should read the maximum radial flux density, when 8A flows through the DC coil.
Let me double-check on this as i am sure i found a 0mT spot with the probe in 0° position while running 8A through the coil.
Itsu
Made a quick video to show the flux at 0 degrees with 0 and 8A running through the coil: https://youtu.be/Hh5ApHrmvc0
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 10:20:11
Made a quick video to show the flux at 0 degrees with 0 and 8A running through the coil: https://youtu.be/Hh5ApHrmvc0
Itsu
Itsu,
My confusion is with regard to which measurement axis you are calling 0 and 90 degrees.
I thought the measurement axis of your probe passed through the dot or hole at its tip at a right angle to the probe's long axis. It appears from your video that is not the case.
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the coil deactivated, is the probe positioned to measure the maximum field strength in the gap?
PW
Itsu,
Just in case you are not already doing so, when activating/deactivating the coil, ramp the current up and down relatively slowly. I would not hard switch the coil, particularly with the probe in the gap or nearby.
PW
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 10:20:11
Made a quick video to show the flux at 0 degrees with 0 and 8A running through the coil: https://youtu.be/Hh5ApHrmvc0
Are you sure the current in the coil generates an opposing flux when you make the second measurement?
What you show on the video behaves as if the coil is generating an aiding flux.
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.30, 10:37:19
Itsu,
My confusion is with regard to which measurement axis you are calling 0 and 90 degrees.
I thought the measurement axis of your probe passed through the dot or hole at its tip at a right angle to the probe's long axis. It appears from your video that is not the case.
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the coil deactivated, is the probe positioned to measure the maximum field strength in the gap?
PW
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the coil deactivated, the probe is NOT positioned to measure the maximum field strength in the gap.
Measuring the maximum field strength in the gap is done with the probe in the 90° position
Itsu
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.30, 11:41:00
Are you sure the current in the coil generates an opposing flux when you make the second measurement?
What you show on the video behaves as if the coil is generating an aiding flux.
I double-checked, but it is generating an opposing flux as compared to the magnets as in this picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49516;image)
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 11:59:32
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the coil deactivated, the probe is NOT positioned to measure the maximum field strength in the gap.
Measuring the maximum field strength in the gap is done with the probe in the 90° position
Itsu
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the DC coil deactivated, what measurement do you get?
PW
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.29, 21:04:44
verpies, PW,
It takes some time (minutes) to position the probe on the correct positions which is OK with no power through the coil, but with 8A through it, i have only a minute or so before the coil heats up too much.
But i was able to make these measurements with the probe in the middle of the gap:
probe position current through coil flux measured
0° 0A S 0mT
0° 8A S 6.8mT (cannot get it to 0mT)
90° 0A S 171mT
90° 8A S 104mT
Itsu
Itsu,
So in this reply, what you are calling 90 deg is with your measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis?
If so, I believe it is that 104mT measurement that the DC coil is supposed to null close to zero. Can you make that reading close to zero by adjusting the current?
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.30, 12:18:23
With the probe positioned as in the video, and the DC coil deactivated, what measurement do you get?
PW
PW, you can see that in that same video as i start out with the DC coil deactivated, and the probe carefully positioned to read 0mT.
So 0mT, but it takes some careful positioning to reach that with the probe tip in the middle of the gap halfway between the OD and ID of the core and the tip in the 0° position.
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.30, 12:43:22
Itsu,
So in this reply, what you are calling 90 deg is with your measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis?
If so, I believe it is that 104mT measurement that the DC coil is supposed to null close to zero. Can you make that reading close to zero by adjusting the current?
PW
QuoteSo in this reply, what you are calling 90 deg is with your measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis?
Yes, this is measuring the flux parallel to the sausage (X) axis.
QuoteIf so, I believe it is that 104mT measurement that the DC coil is supposed to null close to zero. Can you make that reading close to zero by adjusting the current?
I probably could make that reading (104mT) close to zero, but i think i would need to put in (much) more current which i am presently not able to do.
I made a similar video as this morning (0°), but now with the probe in the 90° position: https://youtu.be/k-DmhsWkxjk
Same situation, but here i reversed the coil leads, so it now is in aiding mode together with the magnets: https://youtu.be/pHECjxOordI
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 15:32:19
Yes, this is measuring the flux parallel to the sausage (X) axis.
I probably could make that reading (104mT) close to zero, but i think i would need to put in (much) more current which i am presently not able to do.
I made a similar video as this morning (0°), but now with the probe in the 90° position: https://youtu.be/k-DmhsWkxjk
Same situation, but here i reversed the coil leads, so it now is in aiding mode together with the magnets: https://youtu.be/pHECjxOordI
Itsu
Thanks for doing all that Itsu...
This makes more sense to me now. As I stated earlier, I suspected that the radial measurement would be quite low compared to the no coil parallel field measurement. When the parallel field is nulled with the DC coil (you need a bit more coil or current to accomplish that), the measurable radial field will be quite low (somewhat similar to summing a common mode signal).
As the lines of force exit the pole pieces they make a right angle turn and the lines become radial to the sausage axis. Under those measurement conditions, there is no "south pole" per se, only a field strength gradient along those lines. Rotating the probe a bit or moving it around in the gap will net slightly larger field measurements, but the measured strength will remain significantly lower than the non-energized parallel field reading.
Because of this, when the HF coil is activated as planned, there will only be a small amount of torque applied to the nuclei. In some areas, where the field lines have not yet become parallel to the pole pieces, there will be an increased gradient causing them to tilt a bit, but in your measurement position (somewhat centered in the gap) there will be little force applied to the nuclei to cause their spins to follow the radial field.
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.30, 16:36:27
...I suspected that the radial measurement would be quite low compared to the no coil parallel field measurement. When the parallel field is nulled with the DC coil (you need a bit more coil or current to accomplish that), the measurable radial field will be quite low (somewhat similar to summing a common mode signal).
I don't understand the analogy to the "common mode signal".
Overall flux cannot be "nulled" because flux lines do not subtract nor cross each other and always form closed loops. They cannot be made to disappear, they can only be bent (that can only null one component of flux density in one direction). The only way to get an overall lower flux density is to distribute it over a larger volume.
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 15:32:19
I made a similar video as this morning (0°), but now with the probe in the 90° position: https://youtu.be/k-DmhsWkxjk
Same situation, but here i reversed the coil leads, so it now is in aiding mode together with the magnets: https://youtu.be/pHECjxOordI
You will find high radial flux density at larger coordinates along the R axis (further from the Z axis of the device) beyond the OD of the ferrite.
However at this distances the axial flux density suffers, so I will have to think of a better field geometry to maximize both.
In this last setup i found a way to put 15A through the coil for a moment and the flux dropped to 70mT when in the 90° position (middle of the gap, middle in between OD and ID).
So this updates that part of the table to:
probe position current through coil flux measured
90° 0A S 171mT
90° 15A S 70mT
Measuring the flux density with 1A steps through the coil (till max 8A then adding the 15A value) shows this data and graph:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49567;image)
So if i would imagine the trend line, it would take many more amps to reach zero mT
Coil is 530 turns of 0.8mm magnet wire (88m) with a measured resistance of 3.5 Ohm.
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.10.30, 09:27:37
PW, verpies,
The fields are not homogenous, as far as i can see as moving the probe from OD to ID shows many fluctuations.
Also measuring a single magnet across its surface shows many different readings.
Another problem is the positioning of the probe when probing inside the gap as we have many "degrees of freedom" to control.
This picture shows me having the probe in what i call the 0° position:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49536;image)
Let me double-check on this as i am sure i found a 0mT spot with the probe in 0° position while running 8A through the coil.
Itsu,
What is the stack sequence of the sausage in this image (i.e., left to right, magnet, ferrite, ferrite, etc). Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).
Thanks,
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.31, 17:19:03
Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).
Also, please provide the dimensions of the copper coil (not including the plastic former).
Quote from: verpies on 2023.10.31, 19:20:41
Also, please provide the dimensions of the copper coil (not including the plastic former).
Verpies,
Where is the copper foil located?
PW
Itsu,
if you only had magnets at one end of the sausage, the following might prove interesting:
Step 1: Measure the surface field of the magnet side of the gap with the coil deactivated. Place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. Note the reading.
Step 2: Remove the magnets from the sausage. Position the probe to make a surface field measurement of the pole piece on the DC coil side of the gap. As above, place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. (pick a location that is directly opposite from where you made the step one measurement). Ramp up the coil current and see if you can attain the same (or greater) field strength as measured in step one. Note the amp draw.
You will have to decide if removing the magnet is too much hassle. You'll likely need a spacer to replace the magnets' width in the stack. Use another ferrite if you have one or just a plastic spacer if you don't.
If there are magnets at both ends of the sausage, it might take a bit more thought on how to do this. Perhaps Verpies can offer a suggestion.
I was just wondering how much surface flux your DC coil and ferrite cores can achieve without the magnets involved...
PW
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.31, 17:19:03
Itsu,
What is the stack sequence of the sausage in this image (i.e., left to right, magnet, ferrite, ferrite, etc). Also please provide the approx. thickness and diameter of each (ferrite/magnet).
Thanks,
PW
PW, verpies,
for details on my device see here:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49569;image)
Data left to right;
2 stacked ringmagnets each 57 x 21 x 13mm (OD ID H), Soft core (underneath the coil) 50.5 x 25 x 28.5mm (OD ID H), Soft core 50.5 x 25 x 28.5mm (OD ID H), 2 stacked ringmagnets each 57 x 21 x 13mm (OD ID H)
Coil data:
coil former OD 53mm
Coil width 27mm
coil thickness 11mm
530 turns 0.8mm magnet wire
88m length
3.5 Ohm
No copper foil is present.
Itsu
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.31, 19:41:22Step 1: Measure the surface field of the magnet side of the gap with the coil deactivated. Place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. Note the reading.
With all 4 ringmagnets stacked together on the right side of the device i measure 180mT at the surface (OD) of these magnets in the gap, but 170mT when moving a few mm inside the gap to match the OD of the soft core.
See also this earlier measurement here: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4515.msg108422#msg108422
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.31, 19:41:22Step 2: Remove the magnets from the sausage. Position the probe to make a surface field measurement of the pole piece on the DC coil side of the gap. As above, place the probe's measurement face directly against the surface of that pole piece. (pick a location that is directly opposite from where you made the step one measurement). Ramp up the coil current and see if you can attain the same (or greater) field strength as measured in step one. Note the amp draw.
With the 4 magnets removed and measuring the flux on the surface of the 2nd core at the OD in the gap i measure 115mT (max.) at 7.6A current (max).
Itsu
Quote from: picowatt on 2023.10.31, 19:32:51
Verpies,
Where is the copper foil located?
That would be in the Staaar Yoke device. They also used an aluminum foil in it for the orthogonal winding.
Itsu's Grenade device does not have a copper foil in it nor the orthogonal winding.
Itsu,
When you make your surface field measurements, do so on the "face" of the pole pieces, not on the OD.
Perhaps consider removing the two magnets on the coil end of the sausage to see if this will allow you to null the field with the DC coil (with the probe measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis, which I believe you call the 90 degree measurement for some reason...).
Although having only the two magnets on the opposing end will likely not meet Verpies' field strength versus diameter requirement, it might allow further study of the field conditions in the gap when the field is nulled with the DC coil.
Perhaps Verpies can provide more guidance regarding this...
PW
I am probably not expressing myself clearly enough, sorry for that, but i did make my latest measurements on the "face" of the pole pieces.
But as the strongest readings are at the outside of the core / magnets, i referred to this outside as OD, so here a picture of where i measured the above readings:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49571;image)
Concerning: "the probe measurement axis parallel to the sausage axis, which I believe you call the 90 degree measurement for some reason...", i from now on will call that the 0° position.
I will do some experiments with fewer magnets to see if i somehow can "null the field with the DC coil".
Itsu
I removed the left 2 stacked magnets leaving only the right 2 stacked magnets.
Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (136mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 70mT:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49573;image)
Then i removed one of the 2 right stacked magnets, leaving only one (the weakest).
Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (75mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 11mT:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49577;image)
So nearly there (0mT), so looking for an even weaker ring magnet............
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.11.01, 13:11:57
I removed the left 2 stacked magnets leaving only the right 2 stacked magnets.
Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (136mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 70mT:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49573;image)
Then i removed one of the 2 right stacked magnets, leaving only one (the weakest).
Measuring with the probe in the middle of the gap halfway the OD / ID of the soft core in the (new) 0° position, see picture, where the coil is DEACTIVATED (75mT).
When activating the coil at max 8A, the reading is reduced to 11mT:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49577;image)
So nearly there (0mT), so looking for an even weaker ring magnet............
Itsu
Itsu,
While nulled as best you can, can you move the probe around a bit to find something closer to zero? Start out with just some slight twists of the probe to the left or right to see if it will null.
PW
I found a weaker speaker magnet which i put in as the only magnet,
Same setup as before, measuring 60mT with the coil deactivated, see picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49579;image)
Around 6A through the coil the meter reads 0mT.
Seen the above update from PW, i will see what i can do as there is little time to adjust the probe before the coil heats up too much and i need my both hands to manage the movements of the coil and magnet when energized
Itsu
Quote from: Itsu on 2023.11.01, 16:12:09
I found a weaker speaker magnet which i put in as the only magnet,
Same setup as before, measuring 60mT with the coil deactivated, see picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49579;image)
Around 6A through the coil the meter reads 0mT.
Seen the above update from PW, i will see what i can do as there is little time to adjust the probe before the coil heats up too much and i need my both hands to manage the movements of the coil and magnet when energized
Itsu
Itsu,
Forget my last post...
Now that you can null the field, measure the radial field (what we are now calling the 90 degree reading with the measurement axis perpendicular to the sausage axis) with and without the DC coil activated with the current necessary to achieve the 0 degree null.
PW.
PW,
it depends on what position (height) the probe needs to be.
When at the same height as previous done (halfway the OD / ID of the core) i can set the reading to 0mT with deactivated coil and this will stay low (max 8mT) when activating the coil with 6A.
But when increasing the probe height to be higher than the OD of the core (5mm) then we have a reading of 25mT with deactivated coil and 57mT with 6A through the coil.
For this latter position see this picture:
(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4523.0;attach=49583;image)
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
Its bin a while since your last post.
Is the subject still an active bench topic or is it already put to bed?
Maybe you or Verpies could give a short conclusion where this has ended or should proceed from?
Best regards,
Ape
Hi Ape,
well its kind of shelved for the time being, other things have come in between for now, so who knows if it will be followed up or not.
Itsu
Hi Itsu as I understand it the grenade device captures the magnetic wave that's transmitted from the none standard Tesla coil (re Don Smith's) vids on the net, I was wondering as this is a 90deg phase shift wave if you had done any tests on your recovery device or have any information you could share.
I hope asking you is ok as i am really interested is solving some of the mystery's of this device.
Please feel free to PM me. Sil
Quote from: Itsu on 2024.02.04, 09:58:27
Hi Ape,
well its kind of shelved for the time being, other things have come in between for now, so who knows if it will be followed up or not.
Itsu
I understand.its also a very specific topic.
Let me try to activate in general the Ruslan topic..
I can recall long ago with T1000 to have a test in order to charge a cap/ plate/ grenade by a kacher setup.
I didn't succeed also I' m not aware if somebody has done it succesfully.
In other words, charging an object with longitudinal waves.
We all know ionizing something can not be done with a sinewave as the average charge from a sinewave cycle is always zero.
Now there has been circulating some vids that a unipolair wave is generated from a kacher setup in a slight different setting.
So again if T1000 can remember what I'm talking about it hopefully gets some attraction here.
Hi Mr Ape I'm not sure where your going with this, But if your talking about an ac fed cap / inductance (tank coil) then it's a tuned circuit, but put a diode in circuit and it's a different matter, are we talking about Hertzian waves or scalar or acoustic waves audio stuff? Hertzian is 2 dimensional (it only has losses) wile scalar is 3 dimensional and doesn't have losses and it's not a wave.
But in saying that a lot of BS has been said and other stuff un said.
So tell me what are you trying to do I might be able to help?
Sil
PS where has your PM service gone ?
Apecore; picture this idea suppose we have a simple Tesla coil
with a 100mm wave length with the energy spinning round it's length,
now suppose we split that wave length into 4 parts
and separated with nodes, now we wind another coil with two
layers and wind it to the same wave length so the node wave
length sits in the same wave length but folded over in the middle
so it produces canceling waves. Now perhaps all we have to do is
sync the both coils so they are at the same place at the same time
but apparently one is 3 times the speed as the other.
Regards Sil
Quote from: AlienGrey on 2024.02.05, 23:05:36
Hi Mr Ape I'm not sure where your going with this, But if your talking about an ac fed cap / inductance (tank coil) then it's a tuned circuit, but put a diode in circuit and it's a different matter, are we talking about Hertzian waves or scalar or acoustic waves audio stuff? Hertzian is 2 dimensional (it only has losses) wile scalar is 3 dimensional and doesn't have losses and it's not a wave.
But in saying that a lot of BS has been said and other stuff un said.
So tell me what are you trying to do I might be able to help?
Sil
PS where has your PM service gone ?
Longitudinal charging the grenade adding/ mixing current