these are only preliminary tests trying to set a base line.  On this run the Blue TT motors had a 4:3 step down ratio to the input drive gear, I am printing new gears to bring that up to a 1:1

Configuration / Setup,Input Voltage,Total Input Current (Iin​),Net Current over Motor Tare,Generated Output / Status,Bench Notes
Yellow Motor Alone (Tare),6 V,0.11 A,0.00 A,N/A,Baseline internal motor + gearbox friction.
Yellow + Bare Frame Stack,6 V,0.22 A,0.11 A,N/A,Frame bearings (8 mm shafts) & structure add just 0.11 A drag (no 80T gear).
1 Blue TT Motor (Direct Drive),6 V,0.35 A,0.24 A,5.0 V Open Circuit,Smooth single-branch baseline; yellow motor stays cool.
2 Blue TT Motors (Direct Drive),6 V,0.54 A,0.43 A,—,Linear load scaling up to 2 direct-driven gearheads.
3 Blue TT Motors (Direct Drive),6 V,0.70 A→0.95 A,>0.59 A,Stall / Thermal Limit,"Torque limit exceeded; armature back-EMF collapses, cooking motor windings."
3 Blue TT Motors (In Planetary Loop),6 V,0.31 A−0.34 A,0.20 A−0.23 A,Feedback Loop Active,Key Result: Loop force cancellation drives all 3 motors for less current than 2 direct-driven motors!
1 Blue TT Motor (Under Peak Short-Circuit Load),6 V,0.78 A,0.67 A,0.110 A−0.120 A Peak,Measured across DMM 200 mA range (∼0.5Ω shunt load). Heavy magnetic back-torque.

a look inside while I have the 80T gear and the TT motors removed,, a spin up test using a yellow body TT motor was interesting,, it took less to spin using the 2:1 step up and spinning the TT motors than it did to just spin the system 1:1,, using that 2:1 step up does reduce the the upper and lower gears rate of rotation,, but the TT motors are a little drag forward you know,,

Quote from: partzman on 2026.07.30, 15:34:19
So, the current in the primary will not change polarity but will simply rise to a peak and then return to zero. Therefore, the deflection will be in the same direction for the entire cycle.

Quote from: partzman on 2026.08.01, 15:51:20
Context is everything and here you respond to my comment about the primary's current waveform.  Now you say you were referring to a secondary??!??

I was certain that your statement referred to the secondary because it mentioned a "deflection".   I answered about the current induced in the secondary because I thought that is where the "deflection" took place.
My answer is not applicable to the primary current.

I will not provide a reply about the current induced in the primary because the current in the primary can be anything that the power supply (i.e. bridge) pushes into it.

Interesting - and clearly a lot of work!
Best wishes to your progress.

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.01, 19:41:37
how can you be sure?  other than that, do you conclude that the wire will not move in he core when the primary is active, because it was heat flexing the wire?


mags

I find no visible movement in the wire that should be caused by forces from the H-Field in the many tests I've run.  Either the wire is too stiff, or the forces are too weak, or occur at too high a speed to be visible, or.....?  I only see movement when the wire is heated and the direction is easily influenced by the slight bend in the wire.  The core can be rotated so the primary is in a different position relative to the wire and the deflection of the wire still remains the same direction.

My conclusion is that I see no deflection in the wire resulting from H-Field forces.

Pm

how can you be sure?  other than that, do you conclude that the wire will not move in he core when the primary is active, because it was heat flexing the wire?


mags

Quote from: Magluvin on 2026.08.01, 04:40:27
oops.. 12turn.   i see it now

so it pulled toward the primary.... 

firstly, to understand more is, lets say that maybe the wire 'was' pulled in to the primary by magnetic interaction.

if we hung 2 wires losely and horizontally instead.  quarter in between them. if we power both wires, same polarity, if there is movement of the wires in reference to each other, the movement should be opposite of just powering 1 of those wires and loop shorting the other.  the loop shorting example should be the same as your example.  by the way, thanks for doing that.

simple stuff.  like i said, will do some of these simple things this weekend. trying to figure out why i cant log in to my magluvin youtube channel.

mags

I am not saying the loose wire was pulled to the primary by induction force but rather heat expansion gave it the ability of moving towards the primary.

Pm

Quote from: Verpies on 2026.07.31, 22:44:59
Primary ?!  No, we are talking about "induced" current in a wire so this implies "secondary".  There is a fundamental difference between the "inducing" and the "induced" circuit.
The resistance of the primary (the winding that generates the main magnetic flux in the core and leakage flux in its hole) is not relevant to this discussion.

PM stated- "So, the current in the primary will not change polarity but will simply rise to a peak and then return to zero."

Your reply-  "That's right but only below some L/R ratio vs. risetime and always when the resistance of the circuit is zero.
For an electric current to flow along the wire, the wire must be a part of a closed circuit / loop."


Context is everything and here you respond to my comment about the primary's current waveform.  Now you say you were referring to a secondary??!??

Also, the primary induces the single wire via the H-Field.

Pm

Quote from: F6FLT on 2026.07.28, 16:44:27
A permanent magnet can probably be exploited, but only as an accessory, not in its true nature.
The laws of nature are such that translations or rotations that are invariant over time require no energy to be sustained.
Whether it be electron spin or the current in a superconducting coil, as no energy is required for the motion, we cannot extract this hypothetical energy that would sustain the motion – it does not exist. Energy is only required to set something in motion, or to bring it to a halt. We can only recover the energy from the cessation of motion.
That said, slowing down or stopping electron spin is a grand undertaking; we would surely recover energy, but from where – really, at no cost? And I suspect that some version of Murphy's Law will prevent us from doing so.

The Coler/Unruh Stromerzeuger discussed in another bench broke Murphy's Law as verified by some Professors some 100 years ago, but fearful for their reputations thay forbade publication of their findings.  The unusual feature was current flowing within the ferromagnetic cores, and that brings us into the relatively new science of Spintronics that was unknown to those Professors.  It is now known that electrons have, in addition to their electric charge and their mass, two other linked features, angular-momentum and magnetic dipole-moment, now under the name Spin.  A rotating mass that occupies volume will have angular-momentum, and a rotating charge that occupies volume will have a magnetic dipole-moment, so using Spin to describe these two features is not unreasonable.  The Law of conservation of angular-momentum applies to any system where momenta are mixed and that leads to the conservation of energy.  I ask the question, is there a similar Law of conservation of magnetic-dipole moment that would apply to any system?

Smudge

oops.. 12turn.   i see it now

so it pulled toward the primary.... 

firstly, to understand more is, lets say that maybe the wire 'was' pulled in to the primary by magnetic interaction.

if we hung 2 wires losely and horizontally instead.  quarter in between them. if we power both wires, same polarity, if there is movement of the wires in reference to each other, the movement should be opposite of just powering 1 of those wires and loop shorting the other.  the loop shorting example should be the same as your example.  by the way, thanks for doing that.

simple stuff.  like i said, will do some of these simple things this weekend. trying to figure out why i cant log in to my magluvin youtube channel.

mags