Avramenko fork/plug...how does it work and is it OU?

[Bob Smith]

Thanks Mags
Very cool component! I can see where it could come in very handy. 
If you can charge and discharge a cap from cold electricity impulses and use it for feedback, I could see how the possibility of coming close to a self-runner might arise.
Thanks for the llink and info -very helpful.  I found this from NTE giving their SIDACs for sale:
http://www.nteinc.com/Web_pgs/SIDAC.html
Bob

[Magluvin]

Thanks Mags
Very cool component! I can see where it could come in very handy. 
If you can charge and discharge a cap from cold electricity impulses and use it for feedback, I could see how the possibility of coming close to a self-runner might arise.
Thanks for the llink and info -very helpful.  I found this from NTE giving their SIDACs for sale:
http://www.nteinc.com/Web_pgs/SIDAC.html
Bob

Np Bob

Check out newark electronics. Should find a selection of higher voltage breakdown. 

Mags

[TinselKoala]

What are cold electricity impulses ?

What is cold electricity?

[Bob Smith]

What are cold electricity impulses ?

What is cold electricity?

You tell me and we'll both know. 


I can only describe what I've seen it do.
It doesn't seem to have to be HV or HF.  It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors.
And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler.

But honestly, I think this component Mags has shown us might be good for any kind of feedback system as he has demonstrated.
I know I brought up the cold electricity thing, and you have every right to ask me to clarify my terms, TK.  I'd prefer to stay focused on the integrity of this thread and on the AV plug, and what works well with it.

Bob

[TinselKoala]

You tell me and we'll both know. 


I can only describe what I've seen it do.
It doesn't seem to have to be HV or HF.  It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors.
And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler.

But honestly, I think this component Mags has shown us might be good for any kind of feedback system as he has demonstrated.
I know I brought up the cold electricity thing, and you have every right to ask me to clarify my terms, TK.  I'd prefer to stay focused on the integrity of this thread and on the AV plug, and what works well with it.

Bob

Fair enough. But at some time I'd like to see some actual demonstrations of what you describe here:

"It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors. And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler."

Well, "large resistors" are generally wirewound and have considerable inductance hence they act as low-pass filters, and diodes do have a forward voltage drop and reverse leakage and if they are "slow" may appear not to be rectifying at all if the frequency is high enough. But I don't think I've ever seen a capacitor get cooler unless a fan was blowing on it, and I do have some little experience with using capacitors in all kinds of frequency ranges and voltages. I would very much like to see a demonstration of this phenomenon.

By the way, your recent 'gotopulse' video clearly shows that the current from the inductive spike goes in the same direction as it was going before the pulse cutoff, and the voltage of the spike does reverse (as the inductor's polarity changes.) 

[forest]

Cold electricity is not really so cold, depends on frequency. In slow repetition at large power it will kill you. It's nothing more then opening the circuit to the Earth electromagnetic system, for example incorporating the Earth ground as a capacitor. It all started with Edison problems with DC generators and his later discovery of "Etheric force". That was first described evidence of "cold electricity" (except some "one shot" experiments like charging capacitor remotely from the Leyden jar in 1842). So "cold electricity" is just a name for RF range interaction with Earth.

[Bob Smith]

Thanks for the feedback, TK and Forrest. TK, I don't know about the video you refer to. Sounds maybe like Luc Choquette (goto Luc)?
https://www.youtube.com/user/gotoluc/videos

A word about the AV plug:
The one conclusion I've come to about the AV plug is that it half rectifies an AC wave to produce unidirectional (positive) pulses.  Maybe this might be its association with COP>1 circuits. 
Bob

[Magluvin]

Thanks for the feedback, TK and Forrest. TK, I don't know about the video you refer to. Sounds maybe like Luc Choquette (goto Luc)?
https://www.youtube.com/user/gotoluc/videos

A word about the AV plug:
The one conclusion I've come to about the AV plug is that it half rectifies an AC wave to produce unidirectional (positive) pulses.  Maybe this might be its association with COP>1 circuits. 
Bob

The av plug is a full wave rectifier.  Just because it only has 2 diodes doesnt mean it is only a half wave rectifier


Like the output of a 12v out transformer secondary, it needs 4 diodes for full wave rectification. But if it were a center tapped 24v out, then we only need 2 diodes to get full wave rectification into the cap..

Mags

[Bob Smith]

Thanks for that clarification, Mags.
As a full wave rectifier, the AV plug does produce unidirectional (pos) pulses then?
Bob

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:

http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end.  It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.

Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it.   But can it be harvested as OU?

       Guys, just so you know:  The site immediately above was taken offline and returns an error message to that effect.

To Wit...      "Error 404 Page"

       Looks like you'll need to look elsewhere for similar information that was actually on the original page.

Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

--Lee

p.s.
J. Naudin's site still loads and runs as usual.

[Magluvin]

Thanks for that clarification, Mags.
As a full wave rectifier, the AV plug does produce unidirectional (pos) pulses then?
Bob

For what its worth, each phase of the input to the plug is charging the cap. Some say that there is more than just pulling electrons from 1 plate during 1 phase and pumping electrons into the other plate during the other phase of the input. 

But I believe that it is 1 plate at a time being altered of the number of electrons in the plate.  The secondary of the small neon transformer in my vid is most likely  many many turns of thin wire. Without a load, I believe that the electrons in the wire are pulled from one end of the wire and compressed toward the other end of the wire. At peak and in this condition, this would be where each end of the wire would have opposite charge across the resistance of the wire. So this compression can do the same if there is a diode and a single plate in the air, and it can pump electrons into that plate.  That would leave the windings depleted of its normal electron count and the whole winding would be positive in reference to the negatively charged plate. So that plate will only get so many electrons from the wire of which say the whole secondary winding is minuscule in mass compared to the plate and the circuit cannot pump any more electrons from the winding with the power it has to do so.

So with the full plug, 1 diode in one direction to one plate of the cap and another reverse polarity diode to the other plate of the cap, there would be more electrons to pump to the pumped plate because the other phase of the input us sucking them out of the other plate, instead of just the 1 diode and 1 plate only getting what was available in the winding itself.

Soo a larger cap takes longer to get to peak charge and is harder to get to the same peak as a smaller cap, because the winding can only pass so much current per phase.

Mags

[Bob Smith]

Interesting analysis, Mags. It seems you are describing a kind of pumping action brought on by the use of the AV plug, and a gradient of potential difference that it produces within the wires. 

If we look at Tesla's Appparatus for Collecting Radiant Energy (https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-685957-apparatus-utilization-radiant-energy ) , can not see a similar gradient of potential difference between the plate and ground? 

Perhaps the AV plug's effect as you describe actually helps us reproduce this gradient of potential difference as illustrated in the above patent (i.e., between elevated plate and ground).
Bob

[Bob Smith]

I like it!   

[Magluvin]

For what its worth, each phase of the input to the plug is charging the cap. Some say that there is more than just pulling electrons from 1 plate during 1 phase and pumping electrons into the other plate during the other phase of the input. 

But I believe that it is 1 plate at a time being altered of the number of electrons in the plate.  The secondary of the small neon transformer in my vid is most likely  many many turns of thin wire. Without a load, I believe that the electrons in the wire are pulled from one end of the wire and compressed toward the other end of the wire. At peak and in this condition, this would be where each end of the wire would have opposite charge across the resistance of the wire. So this compression can do the same if there is a diode and a single plate in the air, and it can pump electrons into that plate.  That would leave the windings depleted of its normal electron count and the whole winding would be positive in reference to the negatively charged plate. So that plate will only get so many electrons from the wire of which say the whole secondary winding is minuscule in mass compared to the plate and the circuit cannot pump any more electrons from the winding with the power it has to do so.

So with the full plug, 1 diode in one direction to one plate of the cap and another reverse polarity diode to the other plate of the cap, there would be more electrons to pump to the pumped plate because the other phase of the input us sucking them out of the other plate, instead of just the 1 diode and 1 plate only getting what was available in the winding itself.

Soo a larger cap takes longer to get to peak charge and is harder to get to the same peak as a smaller cap, because the winding can only pass so much current per phase.

Mags

Now, in my vid, notice how the capacitance is applied between the other end of the HV secondary and the coils can. This gives the HV sec more reservoirs to pull and push electrons back and forth, not just the electrons in the HV sec winding itself.

So if the one end of the sec is 1 wire to a distant AV plug and the other end of the HV sec is set to earth gnd, then that can be the other path instead of just 1 wire. Basically it is still just 1 wire that would need to run the distance, and the earth gnd saves us from having to run 2 wires.

Id bet if there were a way to completely isolate the open end of the HV sec, and the transformer itself, from having a capacitive path to the cap that is after the AV plug, Id say that the cap could still take on a charge due to the compression and decompression within the HV sec winding as the winding would still have pos and neg charges at the 1 wire end and as long as it can overcome the diode barrier voltage.  In that case, the shorter the 1 wire run, the more of a chance the cap can receive the charge, as the longer the 1 wire is, 'it' taking on the compression's and decompression's would be very loose and most likely would not make it to the cap alone. 

Its just the way I see it.

Mags

[Bob Smith]

Does the Aether's response to positive pulses produced by the AV plug have a role to play in producing a COP>1 effect?
Bob

[Magluvin]

Does the Aether's response to positive pulses produced by the AV plug have a role to play in producing a COP>1 effect?
Bob

Hey Bob

Im not keen on aether, yet anyway. 

I follow the ideals of electron flow and flux cutting. There are a few alternatives to this that others say are correct. Its fine by me though. I cannot dispute them just as I cannot prove what I follow in any definite manner. So what I have said here may or may not be truly correct. But Im still pretty solid on what I follow till someone can really get me to see the other ways are for sure what we should follow. Till then I find electron flow and flux cutting very logical in many cases. It just works. So far I have not seen anything else that raises my eyebrows yet, at least when it comes to explaining how the other versions are thought to work. Trying to understand those explantions brings up big questions for me each time they are presented.

So it is all just my view on the plug subject. If you find other explanations we can look at those and see if they make any more sense than how I explained it.

Mags

[Bob Smith]

Thanks for the reply Mags.  I'm happy to try to see this from the electron perspective as well.
There was an interesting post recently on EF about the AV plug and its role in producing a COP>1 effect.  Here's the link:
http://www.energeticforum.com/306242-post177.html
Bob

[Classic]

Hey Bob

Its called a Sidac.  This one breaks over at 250v.. The next vid uses 2 in series.  So its like a 250 spark gap that wont stop conducting till the voltage comes down to a minimum.

Had found out about them from an old popular science article I believe it was, about a simple tesla coil driver circuit. Should still be available. Just wanted a low voltage break over device at the time.

SIDAC basics

The SIDAC is very similar to the ordinary DIAC. Its operation can be considered to be very nearly identical. However it is always a five-layer device and it has a low-voltage drop in latched conducting state. This makes it more like a voltage triggered TRIAC but without a gate.

Another difference between the two devices is that typically a SIDAC will have higher break-over voltage than a DIAC. Generally one will also have a higher current handling capacity level. This means that they can be directly used for switching and not just for triggering of another switching device such as a TRIAC.

The operation of the SIDAC or SYDAC is very similar to that of the DIAC. It remains in a non-conducting state until the voltage across the device rises to a level above the break-over voltage. At this point the device starts to conduct and enters a negative resistance area of the I-V characteristic.

The device will continue to conduct until the voltage falls below its rated holding current, at which point the device will return to its non-conducting state. It will then only start to conduct again once the break-over voltage is again exceeded.

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/diac/sidac.php

Mags

Can we use a SIDAC instead of spark gap ?

Although it's a very versatile component that can act like a diode or transistor or resistor depending where is placed in a circuit

[forest]

Can we use a SIDAC instead of spark gap ?

Although it's a very versatile component that can act like a diode or transistor or resistor depending where is placed in a circuit

I wish we could but seems current can be passed throught it only in pulses. If you can charge capacitor and discharge using SIDAC then we would have a solution

[Classic]

Thanks for reply.

It seems that a diode is necessary in every ou devices along with negative resistance obtained by may methods.

Looks like the formula is standing waves + pulse + negative resistance where the main ingredient is standing waves (real amplifier), coils act as antenna and their wires length needs to be a fraction of wave length

[Classic]

Hey Bob

Its called a Sidac.  This one breaks over at 250v.. The next vid uses 2 in series.  So its like a 250 spark gap that wont stop conducting till the voltage comes down to a minimum.

Had found out about them from an old popular science article I believe it was, about a simple tesla coil driver circuit. Should still be available. Just wanted a low voltage break over device at the time.



SIDAC basics

The SIDAC is very similar to the ordinary DIAC. Its operation can be considered to be very nearly identical. However it is always a five-layer device and it has a low-voltage drop in latched conducting state. This makes it more like a voltage triggered TRIAC but without a gate.

Another difference between the two devices is that typically a SIDAC will have higher break-over voltage than a DIAC. Generally one will also have a higher current handling capacity level. This means that they can be directly used for switching and not just for triggering of another switching device such as a TRIAC.

The operation of the SIDAC or SYDAC is very similar to that of the DIAC. It remains in a non-conducting state until the voltage across the device rises to a level above the break-over voltage. At this point the device starts to conduct and enters a negative resistance area of the I-V characteristic.

The device will continue to conduct until the voltage falls below its rated holding current, at which point the device will return to its non-conducting state. It will then only start to conduct again once the break-over voltage is again exceeded.

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/diac/sidac.php

Mags

i wonder if a SIDAC can be used instead of electromechanical swittch and how much power will draw compared with electromechanical switch ... regarding another application for an inverter patented by Arie deGeus