Replication attempt of patent NL1032750

[Classic]

@verpies, my bad,
1.i should say wires need to be wound tide not coils, thanks for observation.
2. I have specified the wire used for spacing needs to be removed after finishing the coil and the same apply if fishing line is used instead. But this is valid observation and thanks again for pointing out, as it helps for those who intend to build.
3. I will disregard observations related to inter and intra winding capacitance as they are part of non existent aether and I really don' t want to discuss in this stage this aspect. If still in doubt please refer to first part of patent description and literature mentioned.
I am trying to help where most of people can use something instead of pushing them to self educate.

I am going to state again that the purpose is to have as many as possible working devices built and people start benefiting from this invention.

@chetK
1. After i read what i wrote in a very temperamental impulse, i have apologised to itsu and indeed it was wrong and mean to write in that way. But my observations about his setup that have nothing to do with this patent stands.
I only can apologise again for the way i have communicate my observations.

2. My bad, it seems that i have create the impression that i am willing to share some of my previous work, which I am not. But i only wanted to say is  I am willing to share all I know for this replication and i do have some experience and skills.

3. I am not quite sure if you are asking me to leave or you want to discipline me ? Please, clarify. 

[Verpies]

3. I am not quite sure if you are asking me to leave or you want to discipline me ? Please, clarify. 

I think he is asking you to reveal your username on overunity.com.

[Chet K]

 A member was banned at Stefan's forum recently ( prior to classic posting here) posted similar unsupported summaries ( no actual experiments to support)
Many times using YouTube vids to bolster unsupported claims.
Took over as many topics as he was able to ( with combative unsupported claims)
Then got moderated and went further with
horrific behavior towards Stefan offline ,he had to close forum membership .

Very similar behavior here ( smaller scale with a few plot twists )
Classic you seem to post over there under adrouk  ( new member who recently got through new moderation policy there after
Closing of membership..

Yes there is no room for unsupported claims or YouTube as evidence here
Now I see you changed your "Always share" to never ?

Please no games here ...
You seem to make plenty of claims...and offer very strong statements (" it's all there " etc etc

And now you share nothing of your own and try to infer incompetence ,nefarious behavior /accusations in our host
And others ?( try to dismiss with "sorry "?)

Signal to noise is way off the charts ( signal being bench proof of claims , not wordy often corrected text)

I will speak with owner tonight about this ,
Your recent addendums to your willingness ( unwillingness) to share your own work,bring even more concern to " why are you here"?
And making incredible amounts of posts ...towards encouraging others to build ??and share ??
HUH ?

[Classic]

No problem at all, this will probably be my last post

Good bye everyone

[Verpies]

No problem at all, this will probably be my last post

So what Chet wrote about is true ?

[Chet K]

Classic
Perhaps you should read Darren's Power and Creed again ( prerequisite for joining forum when you signed up)
Small preface attached in screenshot
PDF also attached below.
Please read again.

Tipping point for me is your false claims on Replication attempt ( you wrote "it's not In patent ")
As you are aware our host was also involved in this attempt.
Also the  grotesque insinuations attached to your rebuttal!

If you can follow forum OU claims protocols ( build it yourself and prove it or submit for review by other builders)
This would be good, making broad OU claims with no empirical proof is forbidden here ( example: holding statement "it's all in the patent" as OU proof)
also etiquette between membership ,false accusations or insinuations ..unacceptable according to terms of service and guidelines.

Sincerely
Chet K
Ps
I have not asked for Peter or Darren's opinion yet in this matter
Nor will I if you can adhere to forum rules.( just like we all agreed to do here as part of accepting terms of service and additional guidelines )

[Itsu]

It seems "Classic" is not able to access this forum anymore according to a comment he made under one of my old YouTube videos.

That comment can be seen here (he goes by the name of Caesarus2011):  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDZZUSZkG4Y

Itsu

[Chet K]

will ask Peter
don't think any administration action is responsible
I believe members can remove their own membership
And he is no longer listed as a member .

Chet
EDIT
Just spoke with  Grumage
And it does seem no administration action is involved
Will ring Peter in a few hours just to be certain ( he is still at work ATM

[Itsu]

I just got a PM from Classic that somehow he again has access to this forum.

Itsu

[Itsu]

In post #39 of this thread i mentioned:

"some 8 years ago i did a replication of this NL1032759 patent of Arie deGeus together with Peterae and also Smudge was involved.
Somehow i cannot find the thread anymore where we were discussing this."

After consulting Peterae (admin) it seems that i (and others??) was looked out for seeing this thread somehow which is now resolved.

So this thread where we were discussing this NL1032759 patent is here:  https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2897.0

I can see it again, hopefully everybody else too, if not please send a PM to Peterae.


Perhaps it contains some good info about this patent which others could use.
I do not have this setup anymore, so i am not able to provide any additional data other than what is shown in this thread / videos.

Regards Itsu

[Classic]

Many thanks for reply itsu, i really appreciate your effort.

I have spent some time reading all the posts again as i was able to do a while ago in Peterae bench but has disapeared somehow after i started this thread and could not find again.

All i can say, it was pretty close to prove as long as guidelines has been adhered and i can observe, every little alteration has lead the outcome outside of the purpose of patent.

It seems the most of people are afraid somehow to trust an inventor and when replicating they diverge from guides outlined in patents, or overlook some important details based own their own experience and this apply for almost all attempts to replicate any other devices that i have seen in this forum.
I can understand and is a valid point that some automatisms exist especially for those with vast experience and it might be a correct explanation for failures. Also, analysing some opinions makes me think that probably someone has had the results needed and probably a working device, not necessary an user from this forum. (my guess)

So, i want to point out that this is my approach and what i consider to be important in order to achieve desired outcome.
1. Frequency requirement is a must. This is the heart of device and everything is calculated upon it, not other way.
2. Correct length of wire (as little difference would render all outcome undesirable).
3. Correct connections at specified points. As fig2 in patent drawings
4. Correct aspect ratio and number of turns. As per description in patent in 2 separate sections.
5. Correct phase shift with the help of 2 capacitors in series with correct capacity as per patent description.

When i will have all parts i will perform calculations again according to parts i can get where signal generator is the main issue yet.

I am not making any claims and everything should be read as an attempt to replicate as per thread name. And indeed i make reference to patent description almost all the time where i consider is the utmost importance. After all is a replication attempt where assumption that we do not posses the same knowledge as inventor is taken in account.
I wil not try to outsmart the inventor at any point and if you want to see it like that i am an idiot who knows nothing, but I trust the inventor where he proved with a working device when a patent has been granted and in his generosity shared almost all info to replicate.

[Classic]

Looking at patent on espacenet i found a slightly different translation https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/039564703/publication/NL1032759C1?q=NL1032759

The method and apparatus are for the withdrawal of zero point energy from space for the increase of electro-magnetic field energy, translated into increased kinetic energy of 'free' electrons established by oscillation of two electro-magnetic fields with a single frequency, but with a phase difference. Parallel conductors are used, which have a reduced distance from one another. In operation, the apparatus has a cylinder length of its double winding of 33 cm and a winding diameter of 16.5 cm. A magnet wire thickness with insulation of 1.1 mm is used and with the application of a block voltage of 21 volts, with a ferquency of approximately 8.5 MHz a capacity increase or near 8 per cent is measured (measurement is carried out with instruments whose accuracy is at 8.5 MHz). If input voltages at higher frequencies are obtained or can be secured, there is the possibility for free electrical energy to be obtained and at each scale level. The correct choice of wire length, inductances and capacities in respect of the input frequencies can be selected with very few losses occurring, whereby the number of these circuits must be formed as a 'cascade'.

I think a second translation might offer some other clues. If someone bother to analyse each component in this circuit and what they doing step by step may discover interesting things.

I did not ordered yet any signal generator, as according to my new calculus and analyse i found that i may use an unipolar square wave as well or instead ... need more work to find the outcome.

My attempt is to replicate this system at a very affordable low cost and i have no interest to just prove that work as this part has been done by the inventor himself.

So, if anyone can find a cheap signal generator capable of clean square wave with adjustable duty for 20-30 MHz, any little voltage above 1v where we can additional boost voltage with low cost solution.

Minimum 20 mhz square wave output is essential as it would have 2 effects that i am looking for: 1. length of wire will be shorted bringing the cost down and 2. Better output with less necessary additional circuits cascade for domestic power generation.

I am thinking of approx £100-150 budget or less where everything is bought new off the shelf. This is an essential condition in my attempt.

Magnet wire  approx £30
Ceramic Capacitors 0.5 pF 50 v £5 for 10 of them or few different capacities under 10 pf to play with them
Ceramic trimmer capacitors 0.3-0.6 pF under £5 for 10 of them
Power source + Signal generator £ 50 or less
Solution to collect in useable form for domestic use £50

Sounds feasible ?

Later edit: if someone ask why do we need a phase shift in a bifilar coil where we already have opposite flow of electrons in 2 conductors which are in close proximity to each other, the answer is simple: phase shift will introduce a magnetic delay. 

[Paul-R]

Magnet wire  approx £30

What diameter and length?

[Classic]

What diameter and length?

If we go for frequency above 20 MHz you may find some good options here: https://www.switchelectronics.co.uk/collections/copper-wire

Also they have caps as well at a very decent price not what they charge on amazon or whatever popular choice.

Lately amazon have became kind of useless where no selection can be made and prices are extreme robbery where a lot of fakes are allowed and not doing what they suggest their products doing.

[Classic]

It seems that "some distance" between bifilar (as per patent description) should be in range of fraction of the wire thickness (probably less than 1/2 of thickness of wire used) and not in multiple of wire thickness as seen in itsu replication attempt, as it is seen as a mitigation for skin effect and proximity effect.

[Classic]

I wonder if i can use for signal generator an "high elevated plate" with dimension to match desired frequency ? Even if there is just a small voltage

[Classic]

https://youtube.com/shorts/Lr6mwJiLAmo?si=mXsO9Jwe8DkdzL8X

It looks similar, isn't it ? 

[Classic]

Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?

[AlienGrey]

Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?

Are you serious ? are you tierd of living ? I ask this as what SG operates
at 4 GHZ and at 2-4 1000 volts output ?

Do your self a favour don't upset luved ones, dont mess with the micro wave.

Sil

[Verpies]

Can i use a magnetron from on microwave owen as signal generator ?

Yes, but only for 2.4-2.5GHz, which can be amplitude modulated by its LF HV power supply, e.g.: 50-120Hz.

[Classic]

Are you serious ? are you tierd of living ? I ask this as what SG operates
at 4 GHZ and at 2-4 1000 volts output ?

Do your self a favour don't upset luved ones, dont mess with the micro wave.

Sil

You need to do better homework, all magnetrons in microwave ovens are set for the same frequency 2.45 GZ only difference between them is the power output.

We need to look around in domestic appliances and "misuse" them as Don Smith have tried to explain.

[Classic]

Yes, but only for 2.4-2.5GHz, which can be amplitude modulated by its LF HV power supply, e.g.: 50-120Hz.

Well, it looks like is the exact frequency that i need to inject in that bifilar coil. At 2.45 Ghz allow me to use very short wires for coil which will be perfect to obtain a decent small device.
I can't find what shape will be generated, as all device ou use a square wave. Also i need a solution to power the magnetron from 12v battery as I am gathering parts for it now ... similar with the one that i posted a Romanian patent.

Also, i wonder how can i increase capacitance in the bifilar coil without using huge amount of wire, as capacitance is the exact factor that dictate the output power.

There is few things that I have learned analysing many devices but I am not looking for a self runner, at least not yet. All I can say we need to change the way we use electricity and we need to let it flow instead of shorting it in our appliances unless we need to create some heat. Shorting is killing the source, nullify the gradient whichever we use.

[Verpies]

You need to do better homework, all magnetrons in microwave ovens are set for the same frequency 2.45 GZ only difference between them is the power output.

The industrial microwave ovens use 915MHz magnetrons.

[Verpies]

At 2.45 Ghz allow me to use very short wires for coil which will be perfect to obtain a decent small device.

...wires?!
Do you realize the skin-depth at 2.4GHz ?
Also, magnetrons emit EM waves, so you'd need to connect any electric current carrying "wires" to the coupling-loop of the magnetron without damaging the vacuum-seal.  See the location of the "probe" in the diagram below. ...or build a microwave antenna.



Just don't grind the ceramic neck because the dust from it will kill you.

I can't find what shape will be generated,...

Sine burst.

[Classic]

The industrial microwave ovens use 915MHz magnetrons.

Yeah, I've made reference to domestic appliances ... i like off the shelf idea the most.

Also, I am well aware of the health hazard, that's why I asked around if it may be a good idea. And i pretty much dislike idea to use microwave antenna ... I could use that in other setups for aerial collection and can be bought from electronic components shops not so expensive. But it is too easy of someone want to mess with your device.