Crème de la crème (perhaps)

[PhysicsProf]

Thanks for the further insights Nerzh and E2M (especially) -

I looked at that ebay ad and think the way they show taking power from the unit may be valuable if one has a 3 phase motor being turned by another motor.   That is one of the stumbling blocks I came across when trying to decide the best way to get power from a 3 phase motor or rotoverter setup.  Simple enough but I hadn't thought of this:

PS -- I get a kick out of the obvious "mud-slinging" whenever the discussion gets good - and often throwing the wet towel over everything.  Seems like it happens a lot.  One reason folks go to private forums or threads (unlike where we are now)...
The proof is in the pudding = experiments, not in verbal posturing.

Creme brulee?  

[Duncan]

I wondered at one point if this might be adapted Mike but I dont see an easy way .. you might in a twink!  tis how the brain is

http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/diy-induction-heater.htm

[Allcanadian]

@PhysicsProf

PS -- I get a kick out of the obvious "mud-slinging" whenever the discussion gets good - and often throwing the wet towel over everything.  Seems like it happens a lot.  One reason folks go to private forums or threads (unlike where we are now)...

I think it's good to stir the pot every now and then to see what comes to the surface, it let's us know what kind of person we really are. Did you ever notice how energetic the debate was when Milehigh and FarrahDay were around?. There was some mudslinging yes but in between there was also a great deal of specific technical debate beyond the , here look at this, kind of chatter.

The kind of questions like, if the AC source current is dependent on it's voltage and the phase differential simply a measure of the current flow as it relates to the voltage(drop/rise) in time then what is the role of the series capacitor?. Since the series capacitor cannot pass DC current without charging it must limit current and in the same instance it must also limit the dissipation in the load. That is if the load dissipates X watts in one half cycle then this change must be reflected at the capacitor back to the source. In this instance we have an AC source<> a charged capacitor <> and a load(L) and if the AC source generator were to "motor" the capacitor must act in series causing an inductive AC load to "generate". You see the roles have reversed because the current in near every case is voltage dependent and a voltage drop can cause generation just as a voltage rise may cause a motor action. How does this fit in?, the difference between the induced voltage and the line voltage in time determines the function, motor or generator. So it would seem we may revere the role of any elements and if this reversal of role alternates between the elements just as we perceive the current may alternate then really were just shuffling energy around. However at some point it becomes apparent that the dissipation(change) in one element may act out of time in the opposite direction causing an opposite reaction to the one we would expect. While power may be a measure of the flow of energy the energy in itself is a measure of change, how does it change, where and when is the question.
Alternating alternations:
Gen>>>cap>>>Motor
Motor<<<cap<<<Gen
Repeat

AC

[PhysicsProf]

  You raise some very good points, AC.
I like this especially:

However at some point it becomes apparent that the dissipation(change) in one element may act out of time in the opposite direction causing an opposite reaction to the one we would expect. While power may be a measure of the flow of energy the energy in itself is a measure of change, how does it change, where and when is the question.

Trying to wrap my mind around this -- just not seeing quite what you see.

[PhysicsProf]

Thank Prof. Jones.

Another url.
Same device. Price in Euros.
A bit More expensive but Free shipping.
With 6 Rectifier diode+2 led.

I have just bought 3 of them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Dynamo-Micro-Hand-generator-Brushless-Gear-motor-With-6-Rectifier-diode-2-led-/221334408338#shpCntId

You're welcome, Nerzh - and thank you for that link!
Wow, $6.99 free shipping for the 3-phase generator (small) and 6 diodes and 2 LED's.  
 Nerzh, E2M, all -- where would you put cap(s) to spice up the action with the 3-phase generator/motor?  (Say you had two of them, one as gen one as motor.)

IF  I were going to get a super-efficient device/idea out there, i'd think this would work.  Make 'em in china, sell them CHEAP to get into hands of tinkerers world-wide.  Perhaps drop a ckt diagram and a clue or two...  

[NerzhDishual]

Hi Prof. Jones,

........................
Nerzh, E2M, all -- where would you put cap(s) to spice up the action with the 3-phase generator/motor? 
(Say you had two of them, one as gen one as motor.)
.......................

I dunno... 
Actually, I'm far from having caught all the 'subtlety' of this kinda CCTs.
For example, considering this vid quoted by Duncan:
"Energy Propagation" user: 'Tortuga0303'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY

If you try this CCT in the falstad simulator, it does not work as described in the vid.
As soon as you plug *any* load to the secondary of the transformer you lose resonance.
This is theoretically expected, IMHO.
Hence, the Thane C. Heins Bi-Toroïd Transformer. No?

Of course this is just a simulator.
I do not believe that 'Tortuga0303 is faking anything. But he might.
I'm just wondering what is going on.
Yes, the best way is to reproduce this experiment.
It is in my to-do list.
-----------------------

What I'm planing to do with this tiny Chinese motor is, first, to use a single motor and to try the E2Matrix experiment
with an 'home made' inverter.

A small inverter;


All the Best,
Jean
PS: Yes, having stuffs built in China is a very 'popular' idea...

[Duncan]

As I tried to explain tracking the electrostatic wave through a resonant condition .. I'm just not geared up to do . .. (which is the way it should be done  IMHO) detecting the series resonant point is a problem in its self ! Still I just watched this video

http://www.pa3hcm.nl/?p=336

It tells me that its possible one way or another! 

[giantkiller]

Hmmm. The inverter circuit is a standard push pull stun gun circuit without the pulse transformer at the end.

[NerzhDishual]

Hello Duncan,

The principle is simple, IMHO. I thought of a step to step motor to 'drive' an air cap but the servo idea is more crafty.

However, if I had to reproduce this setup, I guess that I will have trouble to:
1) (Correctly) connect the air cap axle to the servo. These are mechanical issues.
2) Get the information from the SWR. These are electronics issues.

The 'output' of these old SWR are just a mere microammeters. You have to transform a small current to a voltage between O and 5 volts

"[the analog pin] will map input voltages between 0 and 5 volts into integer values between 0 and 1023."
http://arduino.cc/en/Reference/analogRead
--------------------
I am far from an Arduino guru. I used to use more elaborated equipment.
Actually, my Arduino is dozing in some drawer. In pristine condition.
I bought it, one year ago, 'just in case'.

Just in case some 'OU' possibility were showing up...
I'm not interested in using an Arduino for blinking some leds.
This said, I'm pretty sure that I get agitated and perplexed as soon as I try to use it
(even with a single led)...   

Anyway, the software seems not to be complete.
In the setup() function I would add some
"pinMode(pin, mode)".

Cheers,
Jean

[e2matrix]

I posted this at EF also but just for those who don't read there I think it's an important bit of info that may be relevant here.   I got this out of Moray King's book 'Quest for Zero Point' that member 'wings' posted a scan of it in PDF on OU.   Most important I found on pages 78-80 (or 39-40 if you are using the PDF viewer page count).  Apologies for below text formatting and spelling may not be perfect as it was OCR'd and I then quickly corrected some errors.

" Pappas (1991)hypothesized all sparks produce excessive energy. Shoulders (1991) demonstrated that excessive energy can be created in any electrical discharge that produces EV's. What if every spark naturally produces submicron plasmoids (even smaller than Shoulder's EV 's)? Finally, there is abrupt ion motion on the inception of any spark, fulfilling Moray's hypothesis. There is a strong likelihood of some ZPE coupling in any abrupt electrical discharge. In fact some investigators have proposed that an abrupt voltage pulse with only (vacuum) displacement current and minimal charge motion is sufficient to produce anomalously excessive energy. Bearden (1993) proposed this is his "final secret, and Hyde (1990) used this principle in designing his invention (a mechanical electrostatic field chopper) that reportedly output 20 KW while self running. Hyde stressed there should be no corona present whatsoever. The Swiss ML Converter could likewise be sirnply explained if indeed there were energy in all electrostatic pulses.
Electrostatic pulses or abrupt voltage spikes are notoriously difficult to tap efficiently as an energy source.

Many inventors have directed high voltage pulses to recharge batteries with claims of over unity. Unfortunately such pulsing often damages the battery, and of course, an energy machine that cannot self run, but instead relies on batteries, is unconvincing to skeptics.
Clearly what is needed is a method to convert voltage spikes to a useful form of power, preferably DC. Hyde (1990) had to solve this problem in order to make his machine free running. His solution (described in figure 6 of his patent, also King, 1993) took advantage of the fact that even though the individual electrostatic pulses were of high voltage, the current (and thus power) of each was very low. This allowed Hyde to make a voltage divider current multiplier circuit utilizing a large number of inexpensive capacitors and diodes that could be run in excess of their voltage specification without damage. High voltage electrostatic pulses were converted to amplified current pulses at a lower voltage which were then rectified to DC by Standard means. Hyde empirically solved a difficult engineering problem, and the solution allowed him to build a self running energy machine. An easy to build, efficient, current multiplier would facilitate wide spread experiments to investigate claims of excessive energy in electrostatic pulses or sparks, as well as form the basis for a solid state zero-point energy machine. The following Pulse Current Multiplier (PCM) was inspired by Hyde's invention. The PCM is based on the Standard
voltage division technique of charging a bank of capacitors in series,
then discharging them in parallel. Figure 3 illustrates four stages of the
PCM. In practice it is desirable to have ten or more stages. The high
voltage pulse is input across the A terminals at the polarity shown.

The sharper the voltage spike, the better the performance.
The inductances should be the minimum value necessary to block the
input, for they must allow the output current (as a slow rise time pulse)
to pass with minimal attenuation. Hyde did not show any blocking
inductances in his patent. Since he developed his circuit empirically,
perhaps long or coiled output wires provided a sufficient blocking in-
ductance to achieve the same behavior. Ferrite beads might also suffice.
Since the PCM uses inexpensive components, it offers an economical
investigation of a possible ZPE coherence associated with high voltage
pulses and discharges.

A ten stage PCM amplifies the current by a factor of ten. Two
such PCM's can be combined in series to create a multiplication factor
of 100 (Figure 4). The output from the first PCM is impressed across the
input of the second. Since the pulses entering the second PCM will not
be as sharp, larger blocking inductances will be required in it. The principle
can be extended to a third PCM in series to give a multiplication
factor of 1000. Thus a sharp 40 KV spike could be stepped down to a
less steep 4 KV pulse and then to a wider 400 volt pulse. The second and third PCM 's will require more robust circuit components since
appreciable current is being accumulated. Once the pulses become sufficiently wide, then Standard, solid state switching technology can be used instead of the blocking inductances to create a PCM via Standard electrical engineering, voltage division techniques. Such a PCM could be
employed last in the series. An appropriate configuration of PCM's can
thus become an efficient voltage spike Converter.
output current pulse occurs across the B terminals. The inductors' purpose
is to block the sharp input voltage pulse (via high impedance) and
channel it down the (low impedance) series path which should be physically short.

[NerzhDishual]

Hi GiantKiller,

Thanks for your http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/, BTW.

This inverter is not mine. It comes from this vid:
"Fabriquer un onduleur : Incroyables Expériences [73] Make an inverter / Homemade inverter / DIY"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uap1bj3F-UA
Schematics at 6Min37Sec.

Users (Armand and Victor) "Incroyables Expériences" are Young witty and creative French guys
(this is not incompatible) Who, IMHO, would be more inspired to explore 'OU' than Official Science.
They should be grant-aided by TPTP. No?

Screen shot:


As you can see, I have invented nothing.
BTW, this tiny Falstad (dot com) simulator is not too dumb.No?

Cheers,
Jean

[Duncan]

E2 Prof PT Pappas is one of my Faves , particularly here with this substitution, I know the guy himself is all F'd up  and can't drive his key board , but what a sweet turn, don't you think?

http://papimi.gr/university.htm

substitute amp force law  for Bertie's... spit the pips out of that!. Gotta love his style !

[e2matrix]

E2 Prof PT Pappas is one of my Faves , particularly here with this substitution, I know the guy himself is all F'd up  and can't drive his key board , but what a sweet turn, don't you think?

http://papimi.gr/university.htm

substitute amp force law  for Bertie's... spit the pips out of that!. Gotta love his style !

Yes Pappas is Greek I assume and probably doesn't have the best handle on English but it comes across as understandable.   Thanks for that link as it is a good reminder for me.   I looked at his site a while back when he had a monetary challenge on it I believe but didn't really look that close at his info.   Awesome stuff!   I'm going to spend some time reading through it all despite the shouting (CAPS) and wild colors.   I guess it may be a valid thing to be shouting in brilliant colors though as what he has to say is really important     

[Duncan]

e2 he's shouting ok no its rather the guy has suffered multiple strokes and is left with very limited movement and I think his visions suffered too! hence it all looks a bit childish, It isn't as I'm sure you see, the guys heart is in the right place and he's trying to tell his story ,  that's how I read it. 

[NerzhDishual]

Salve a Tutti and Digemer mad,

I have received 3 of this tiny gizmo's motors:



I you have some ideas of experiments they would be very welcome.
Should I be able to test them, of course...
-------------------------
Actually, I have figured out that:
1) If you want to achieve some 'resonance' (in the Falstad simulator) sine waves are more easy to deal with.
(= it simply does not work with square waves)... This is normal. Is it not?
Yet, I remain suspicious with this simulator.

BTW, E2Matrix? (Reply #4 on: 2014-01-03, 21:34:12), is your "Black and Decker 750 watt inverter"
a "pure" sine wave one? According to the price, It should not be.

2) Most off-the-shelf and DIYed (cheap) inverters do not give even an approximate sine wave.
Have you ever seen (on scope) the wave form of the output voltage of such cheap inverter? Pure garbage.
-------------------------
I want to reproduce the E2Matrix experiment with this tiny Chinese motor.
As far as I can catch it, what E2Matix claims is: a running (AC - 1.5HP - 3 phases) motor (with some torque)
that seems not depleting the (12V) input bat and even increasing its voltage (during some time). Right?

For this I just need a small few watts inverter. Strongly preferably delivering sine wave
Yes, it is possible to build an almost sine wave inverter, it suffices to browse the web, but it is more tricky.
-------------------------
Now#1, Ladies and Gentlemen, some skeptic considerations:
As I already told you, I once  was able to get similar results with a Johnnie Dib SSG (Simplified School Girl)
"motor"  run by a Dadhav CCT (CirCuiT).
The behavio(u)r of the run bat. voltage was something like:


Pretty real but evanescent effect, ghost charging?

Now#2, (non skeptic considerations, thanks to Duncan) what if "something" changed in the (input) bat that
needed a reciprocal modification of the "'charging" part?

Which? what? How? Why?   

Yours sincerely,
Jean

[Duncan]

I relay this from the same thread re - energetics

Hello again Duncan

I should of wrote more. Just so you know, I also believe this is the correct path, but you already know that



Quote: Duncan

On this occasion I have a possible conjecture that you might find interesting .
 
Yes, this is exactly the principle I am seeing in Tesla's machine, to operate. ( and many more, once I realized). Pure induction motor. We'll see. I'm really excited about this.
I have a 2 phase gen finished, my toroid wound, but I just can't seem to get the time to finish. Over next couple days I hope.

You know, only a few would even bother to look up what your talking about, but that is life. Maybe One person opens a book, with the intent to learn, with passion, then it was worth it..

You do know, in Latin, Dr., simply means, teacher.
I love your spirit Duncan, your a fighter, and whether you like it or not, you are a good teacher.

Here, for those who can't open books.

[Duncan]

Hi Jean two induction motors and some meccano I think I'd just have to try this 'en miniature'

there's more detail on the thread .. the jigs up
as for your simulator not being able to convert a square wave to a sine wave .. hopeless ! That's where the transformation (and the magic) happens.   Watch this video Jean you will see at resonance
regardless of what waveform is applied to the coil the result is a perfect Sine wave ( or at least as perfect as a sine wave gets)

not much use for COP >1 work if it can't get that important bit right 
                                                                   

[NerzhDishual]

Hello Duncan,

Thanks for answering.
I already (a couple of years ago) had figured out (by myself) this 'square wave to sine wave transformation
effect' with my (very) old tiny scope, a (not so cheap?) signal generator and a mere small trafo
(no cap at all as a coil has some capacities).

Now, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_wave
"The ideal square wave contains only components of odd-integer harmonic frequencies
(of the form 2π(2k-1)f). Sawtooth waves and real-world signals contain all integer harmonics."

So, IMHO, it is easier to get some kinda 'resonance' with mere sine waves that have no "harmonic"
I mean: Thomson formula applies. No?
-----------
BTW, and Off Topic, the Sawtooth Waves are, IMHO, more  pleasant for the ear.
You can listen: "Eurythmics - Sweet Dreams"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0CbvoVhIXY

Very nice (and expensive, I guess) Sawtooth waves digital instrument. No?
I wish I had such a 'big sound' when (more than 10 years ago) Music was my main center of interest.
When you compose (or play) music you can get some satisfaction even if you are the only one interested in your
production.
Now, I'm essentially interested in FreeNRG... And I'm just wondering whether I can get any satisfaction?
"I can't get no SATISFACTION • Original • The Rolling Stones • 1965"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUVt-nTS28
--------------------
For those who might be intersted in:
A piece just remixed with a lot of (cheap Sound Card) Sawtooth synth:
http://www.freenrg.info/4OUR_F/ND_TEKBZH.mid
Beware, this is 'pot free' musik but from and for boozer. 
-------------------------
To be more positive, this afternoon, I watched this vid:
"Radiant Energy Lecture By Peter Linderman". (bad Spelling, BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPK5sGKdBMQ

IMHO, the form is a little bit boring but the substance gave me some very interesting inputs.
I have learnt some things.
More precisely: Eric P. Dollard have is own way explaining stuffs.
P. Lindemann is another style (and, BTW, far more understandable for a non native English speaker)
but both are complementary.

Yes, indeed, for the nitpickers and the bl' skeptics: Peter Lindemann (or EPD) is... or is not... any nasty bla bla bla...

But, starting with the 'C' note the Phrygian (Spanish) Mode is:
C - C#/Db - D#/Eb - F - G - G#/Ab - A#/Bb - (C)
This Spanish mode is immediately identified by most of people and can not be 'debunked' by skeptics..
This is why I love Music...

For those who also might be interested in the book (Basic Electricity) quoted in the PL vid, i
It is here:
http://www.freenrg.info/4OUR_F/Basic_Electricity_Volumes_1_through_5.pdf

Avec mes plus amicales considérations,
Jean

[Duncan]

is energetics forum shut down ?

[e2matrix]

EF is up but I've noticed fairly often it goes down for a short while.  Not sure if it's the forum software or a poor web hosting service.   This is a way to check when you think a site is down but are not sure if it's you (your routing) or actually down:  http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/