QUantum ENergy COnvertor

[Groundloop]

Hi All,

The Quenco apparently converts heat directly to electricity.

http://www.quentron.com/

"Quenco is an ultra thin film that converts ambient heat to power
The term ambient meaning that which the quenco is immersed in,
it could be room temperature air.

It uses quantum tunneling, thermionics and electrostatics

It converts electron kinetic energy (heat) into electrical power
The temperature of an electron is its kinetic energy, Quenco converts
kinetic energy to potential energy

At just 1.2nm (per active layer) a 100V Quenco tile is just a um thick
Quenco tiles are multi-layer, each layer is good for up to 250mV
(depending on the desired amperage) so a 100V Quenco needs
many layers (up to 1000) but as each active layer is only 1.2nm
then 1,000 layers would be 1.2um, these layers are then carried
on a 20um substrate, so only 5 % of the thickness is actual Quenco "

GL.

[Farmhand]

Hi Groundloop, This stuff looks good on face value, my first thought was if it is genuine
then how will it beat the problems faced by solar, being that any solar tech with greater
efficiency than 20 % is considered a threat to national security ? This is true for all countries
it must be, there are no solar panels for sale with a greater than 20 % efficiency anywhere.
And we all are living under the same central banking system that is threatened by free energy.

They ask for a altruistic billionaire to help, but any billionaire would know full well that it would never
be allowed under the corrupt and backwards banking system and the spineless politicians work for them not us.

It seems to me that if it is true that the greater than 20% efficient solar panel is not allowed
because of a threat to the economy then the biggest hurdle for free energy to jump is the
system that disallows it.

Cheers

Cheers

[giantkiller]

As soon as financial reward is mentioned the fox immediately received an invite into the hen house. Carte Blanche...

It also depends what country you are a citizen of i.e. an american constituent is marked as a U.S. based corporation. That is why your birth certificate name is in CAPITAL letters. Thereby making you a corporate entity from which the applied rules you cannot escape. You are branded. If you go to start in another country by a different citizenship you will be promptly sent back to your base clearing house for corporate excising or erasure. There are no choices or opportunities in this version of monopoly. Should you garner attention at this level you are a condemned unit.
If it is found that the perpetrature is not esconced in financial reward the label of terrorist is apply applied. What else would a cognitive adult be aiming for? Politics or Religion. The next lower level of sanctity is money, drugs, women, entertainment with no guns. Add guns and this advances the perpetrature to the next level up, Politics or Religion.
There is no where to hide except suicide. Which is always doaled out to finish the product.

[muDped]

That is why your birth certificate name is in CAPITAL letters.
Thereby making you a corporate entity from which the applied rules
you cannot escape.

If you accept that the Entity Name in CAPITAL LETTERS is in fact Your
Name then you are choosing to function as a GENERAL PARTNER to
the ENTITY.

Of course, it has been NAMED in such manner to create confusion
and to assure that most will assume that the ENTITY is themselves.

In America, the ENTITY is given a NAME which is derived from the
Natural Born Flesh and Blood Man or Woman child;  and it is also
given a NUMBER.  In fact, all Government Created Entities are both
NAMED and NUMBERED.

It is possible to utilize the ENTITY for the purposes of CONDUCTING
BUSINESS within the New Corporate Jurisdiction without creating
the impression that You are the ENTITY.  The ENTITY is a Legal
Creation (an ACCOUNT) with its own NAME and NUMBER which legally
apply only to IT.

The Flesh and Blood Man or Woman have no number.  They have the
power of "Signature."  It is quite easy to learn the simple procedure
for affixing "signature" to legal documents to assure that all parties
comprehend that the ENTITY is a BUSINESS ACCOUNT and that the
Flesh and Blood Man or Woman are not a GENERAL PARTNER.

A General Partner in a "partnership" assumes all responsibility and
obligation for the ENTITY partner.  A "Trustee" does not.

As soon as financial reward is mentioned the fox immediately
received an invite into the hen house. Carte Blanche...

Yep, that is a "for sure!"

[giantkiller]

And who's property is one on when they conduct that business?
Barter has been capitalized by the owner of the business location.
3 miles off shore and its a whole different story. But you're still a threat.
Where does one land after the transaction with booty in hand?

[Peterae]

Yes indeed old English Common Law is very interesting, there are some trying to practise being Freemen, i went into our town Hall the other day and on the wall was a list of Freemen, apparently they truly do lead a free live.
In England we called our entity a Strawman which is created when a person registers a birth so as to have something to attach all worth and debt.

[EMdevices]

Don't believe everything you read.

For example, let's look at this paragraph:

At just 1.2nm (per active layer) a 100V Quenco tile is just a um thick
Quenco tiles are multi-layer, each layer is good for up to 250mV (depending on the desired amperage) so a 100V Quenco needs many layers (up to 1000) but as each active layer is only 1.2nm then 1,000 layers would be 1.2um, these layers are then carried on a 20um substrate, so only 5 % of the thickness is actual Quenco

The electric field intensity across a 1.2 nm layer that has 250 mV across it is:    E = (250e-3 volts) / (1.2e-9 m) = 208 Mv/m    

I don't think there's materials that can even withstand that kind of tension!    [edit:   well, I stand corrected,  this material seems to withstand 300-400 MV/m    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167577X9090055Q   )

EM

[Groundloop]

Quenco is an ultra thin film that converts ambient heat to power.

Second law of thermodynamics:

"No process is possible in which the sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir and its complete conversion into work."

"This means it is impossible to extract energy by heat from a high-temperature energy source and then convert all of the energy into work. At least some of the energy must be passed on to heat a low-temperature energy sink. Thus, a heat engine with 100% efficiency is thermodynamically impossible. This also means that it is impossible to build solar panels that generate electricity solely from the infrared band of the electromagnetic spectrum without consideration of the temperature on the other side of the panel (as is the case with conventional solar panels that operate in the visible spectrum)."

Was Lord Kelvin and Rudolf Clausius wrong?

GL.

[Groundloop]

Example of a device that contradicts the Second law of thermodynamics:

Chromel / Alumel Thermocouple is producing output power. The output is increasing
linear with temperature. This means that a Thermocouple is converting heat directly
to power. (Yes I know, the output power is very small, but it is there.)

"McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Aviation:

Thermocouple:

A device that converts thermal energy directly into electrical energy. In its basic form, it consists of two dissimilar metallic electrical conductors connected in a closed loop. Each junction forms a thermocouple. If the junctions are at different temperatures, an electrical potential difference proportional to the temperature difference will exist in the circuit; the value of the potential generated is different for various combination of materials. This potential difference is indicated as temperature."

Am I correct on the above statement?

GL.

[EMdevices]

I believe that eventually we'll figure out how to circumvent the second law of thermodynamics.  This will result in "free energy", because the energy is already there, all around us.   

This quenco film sounds a bit like a thermocouple, because they talk about a heat flux across it.  This means that heat still has to flow from hot to cold, or from a source to a sink.   However,  the demonstration they talk about, with the two cubes,  sounds like the device can just "suck" the heat out of a material and cool it down to freezing.   If that's the case, that's pretty amazing, but I doubt it, just based on what they said about the heat flux.   

EM

[exnihiloest]

Example of a device that contradicts the Second law of thermodynamics:
Chromel / Alumel Thermocouple is producing output power.
...

False !
Your own quote: "No process is possible in which the sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir and its complete conversion into work."
"a reservoir" means: "only one reservoir", i.e a single heat bath at only one temperature.

When you have two "heat bath" at two different temperatures, it is extremely easy to extract energy. Not only thermocouples need to have each electrode at a different temperature, but also all thermal engines are of this kind and don't contradict the second law.

To contradict the second law, you have to build a "Maxwell demon" or a related device. In spite that at a nanoscopic scale, the second law seems be not too strong,  there is not one experiment showing beyond experimental uncertainties, that energy could be recovered from a single heat bath by decreasing the temperature.

[Groundloop]

I believe that eventually we'll figure out how to circumvent the second law of thermodynamics.  This will result in "free energy", because the energy is already there, all around us.  

This quenco film sounds a bit like a thermocouple, because they talk about a heat flux across it.  This means that heat still has to flow from hot to cold, or from a source to a sink.   However,  the demonstration they talk about, with the two cubes,  sounds like the device can just "suck" the heat out of a material and cool it down to freezing.   If that's the case, that's pretty amazing, but I doubt it, just based on what they said about the heat flux.  

EM

EM,

I think that the inventor actually claimed that the Quenco chip was able to
convert heat to power WITHOUT any heat difference. So you only need to
apply heat to the device to get power out. So if this is true then the Quenco
will directly prove the second law of thermodynamics to be false.

GL.

[exnihiloest]

...
So if this is true then the Quenco
will directly prove the second law of thermodynamics to be false.
...

The problem is that quentron.com shows really nothing. Only a pompous claim without facts.
Their site gives an idea of a complete emptiness  . They have nothing to discuss.

[Groundloop]

Is it possible to convert IR heat directly to electricity?

GL.

[exnihiloest]

Is it possible to convert IR heat directly to electricity?

GL.

It's possible. Now the problem remains: is it possible when the converter is at the same temperature than the IR radiation?

[Groundloop]

EX,

You tell me? An Optic coupler has an IR led at the input and an enlarged "IR solar cell" (photo transistor) at the base of
a NPN transistor. The enlarged base photo transistor area is providing base current and voltage to the NPN transistor.
The temperature of the substrate is probably very close to each other.

"Kelvin statement

Lord Kelvin expressed the second law in another form. The Kelvin statement expresses it as follows:

No process is possible in which the sole result is the absorption of heat from a reservoir and its complete conversion into work.

This means it is impossible to extract energy by heat from a high-temperature energy source and then convert all of the energy into work. At least some of the energy must be passed on to heat a low-temperature energy sink. Thus, a heat engine with 100% efficiency is thermodynamically impossible. This also means that it is impossible to build solar panels that generate electricity solely from the infrared band of the electromagnetic spectrum without consideration of the temperature on the other side of the panel (as is the case with conventional solar panels that operate in the visible spectrum).

Note that it is possible to convert heat completely into work, such as the isothermal expansion of ideal gas. However, such a process has an additional result. In the case of the isothermal expansion, the volume of the gas increases and never goes back without outside interference."

Now since it is possible to engineer an IR "solar cell" (IR photo transistor) in a small format, why is it not possible to make a IR solar panel?

GL.

[BEP]

I understand this person is a geophysicist and electrical engineer and quite knowledgeable with thermionics. We should not discount him easily.

Both metals used in a thermocouple junction are at the same temperature. By their very design and nature they are inserted into one bath or contained area.

[e2matrix]

I understand this person is a geophysicist and electrical engineer and quite knowledgeable with thermionics. We should not discount him easily.

Both metals used in a thermocouple junction are at the same temperature. By their very design and nature they are inserted into one bath or contained area.

Yes and he's put about 20 years into this if I recall.  He seems to be on overunity mostly as a way to get ideas on how to go forward with getting this out to the world.  He is waiting to have a professional video done and then will do a news release on it with a lot more details at that time.  He's not asking for money at all.  I think we would be best to assume he has something real and important and help with any ideas to move it forward as it costs us nothing to do so.  If it has some flaw it will be found when it goes into production but at this time IMO this is real and going to be big if he can navigate the treacherous waters of moving it into production and into the hands of the people. 

[EMdevices]

I wonder if the "invention" if it's real,  is nothing more than a number of thin diode layers, to form a series of junctions.   there is always thermal agitation and voltage fluctuations, and if we can have a "perfect" diode, we can string them up in SERIES, to get as much voltage as possible.      From the description of the technology, it sounds like he needs 1000 layers to achive significant voltages, so right away we know it is a SERIES stack of a diode like function.  He also mentioned that this technology has been known for 55 years. 

You see how easy it is to descipher vague descriptions, that actually speak volumes?   

EM

[BEP]

Yes, I believe it is a result of his experiments with zero-crossing diodes. When he was posting about it I saw no reason for it to fail.

I don't think it has much to do with the way a thermocouple works. I know it doesn't require a temperature gradient.

[exnihiloest]

EX,

You tell me? An Optic coupler has an IR led at the input and an enlarged "IR solar cell" (photo transistor) at the base of a NPN transistor. The enlarged base photo transistor area is providing base current and voltage to the NPN transistor.
The temperature of the substrate is probably very close to each other.
...

A temperature is associated to any radiation, depending on its flux of energy. The temperature of radiation of an IR led is much more than the temperature of the diode substrate.
The IR radiation is what the receiver sees. It sees a much higher temperature than the substrate of the IR led and than its own substrate.
So there is a big temperature difference in the sense of the second law. It is very doubtful that energy could be extracted if the receiver substrate was at the temperature of radiation that it receives.

[Groundloop]

A temperature is associated to any radiation, depending on its flux of energy. The temperature of radiation of an IR led is much more than the temperature of the diode substrate.
The IR radiation is what the receiver sees. It sees a much higher temperature than the substrate of the IR led and than its own substrate.
So there is a big temperature difference in the sense of the second law. It is very doubtful that energy could be extracted if the receiver substrate was at the temperature of radiation that it receives.

EX,

Thank you for taking time to answer me. I agree about the temperature difference. As I see it, it should be possible to
design a IR solar panel because the IR solar panel will always be at lower temperature (because of air cooling) than the
temperature of the IR emitted (from the Sun). I have done some small tests with my IR LED panels and can see that it
is no problem to receive IR light and get power (small) out of the LEDs. I did read somewhere that almost half the energy
from the Sun is IR. Som if we could make some "all purpose" solar panels then the total output will be double than it
is today.

GL.

[Peterae]

The way to increase the efficiency might be to use a Fresnel lenz and focus onto a prism and then lay strip cells with each strip cell sensitive to a different light frequency.

I have always wondered if a more efficient collector could be made by using perspex rods, if you notice the light can be low level but the light gets trapped inside the rod and the ends appear much brighter.

[Groundloop]

The way to increase the efficiency might be to use a Fresnel lenz and focus onto a prism and then lay strip cells with each strip cell sensitive to a different light frequency.

I have always wondered if a more efficient collector could be made by using perspex rods, if you notice the light can be low level but the light gets trapped inside the rod and the ends appear much brighter.

Peter,

You can probably get up to 15% more output from a solar panel by also harvesting IR light.

http://solarenergyutilize.blogspot.com/2011/07/infrared-solar-cells-efficiency.html

GL.