RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device

[Peterae]

Rotor magnet is South Up and glued in position

[Peterae]

Have i made a mistake, both videos seem to be the same, if one was really south up and the other north up they should be a lot different, so i guess maybe i didnt flip the magnet correctly

I use a compass to indicate the polarity of the magnet and sometimes it gets stuck with these real strong magnets, i must by a felt tip pen and write on them

[BEP]

Both videos indicate that the stator magnet has a better 'connection' than the rotor magnet.

This connection is so strong that the rotor magnet wouldn't be able to effect induction.

I suggest adding plastic washers (or something like that ) between the stator magnet and coil core.

[Peterae]

WW I think you missed my last post as we were both posting at the same time.

At the end of each video i do slide the magnet away, this can be seen when the waveform starts to go into a sine wave, i want to re do these videos because i am sure that they are the same, if the bias magnets really were swapped over then the hall should have been biased below it's 0G bias point and the 2 videos above don't seem to show this, i use a compass to check the pole of the magnet and sometimes it gets stuck because of the strength of the magnet.

[BEP]

WW I think you missed my last post as we were both posting at the same time.

I read it.

if the bias magnets really were swapped over then the hall should have been biased below it's 0G bias point and the 2 videos above don't seem to show this

Not necessarily. What the Hall sensor may be showing is the magnetic attraction field between the stator magnet and the core. If the rotor magnet was not close enough to overcome this both videos would appear the same. This is why I suggested increasing the gap between the stator magnet and the core.

[wattsup]

@all

Regarding the biasing magnets, when a rotor magnet or any other magnet passes a coil, the output of the coil will be defined by the extreme change in the magnetic field environment around the coil going from no field, to full field, to no field. Now when you are biasing the coil, it seems to me that the coil output will be reduced because the coil no longer can see the greatest  extreme change in field because there is always a field present, say partial field, full field, partial field, then the rotor magnet has to overcome that partial field for the coil to see the difference in the two and output what it does.

Also, with 8 neo magnets per rotor, we know that even when the magnets are positioned so the center point between two rotor magnets is at TDC to a coil, meaning the rotor magnets are the farthest away possible from the coil, their fields are still present near the coil given they are of neo type so very strong fields. This means a condition of no field, full field and no field is not possible to begin with. This you can see since there will be no horizontal in the output waveform.

Knowing that a coil wants to see the ideal magnetic field change from zero field to full field, and given that biasing the coil will reduce that extreme as well as given the distances of the rotor magnets from one to the other, I am thinking that maybe the best rotor magnet number would be 6 or 7 magnets and not 8. Eight would be fine if the rotor diameter was increased since the magnets would be spread out further and the field extremes would be more emphasized.

The other option I am thinking is to use 8 magnets with the diameter of the rotor as it is now but have each magnet fixed inside a metal ring that is 1/4" higher and that surrounds the magnet then both placed as one into the rotor wheel magnet holes. If the metal rings could muffle the magnets outgoing edge field you would have a better zero field between the rotor magnets and the coil would see a greater change in the field and produce more output and the drag period would be shorter. Also the top hall sensor would be more precise in its activation period permitting less activation slippage.

So the use of the biasing magnets will have a give and take effect. It may give some freer passage to the rotor magnet, but it will take away some output production from the coil. I am then thinking that if the biasing magnets do provide some beneficial action to the rotor rotation but also hindering output production, then maybe they should be positioned not over the gen coils but between the gen coils.

wattsup

[Peterae]

I gotcha WW i have been trying for 2 hours, i can see the null zone on my UGN and set up the magnet position for it but i cannot see any difference on the scope trace across the coil other than the shape of waveform i already have, i have tried also widening the gap between the rotor magnets and the coil core distance and tried again still with no luck, i will try again soon, but no matter what i do i do not get any other shaped waveform yet, even holding the magnet in my hand and slowly moving on to the washer to simulate varying the magnet strength as it approaches.

There's only one magnet set on the rotor hence the large flat area and the coil is unloaded

Any way on another note i also carried out a coil test on my North-North glued magnets and this is what i get on the coil waveform

[BEP]

Which probe setting applies to that channel?

Are you getting ~60V P-P or ~6V P-P?

[Peterae]

6V pk-pk, i was not aiming for high voltage, although i knocked up a coil using a drill and one of those bobbins, and filled the spool with the thin wire so it's high turns and not litz, i just wanted to see if the curve was different with the 2 north poles forced together.

Also the rotor was spun in a drill and the coil was held close, my biggest problem was pressing the enter key on the keyboard to capture the scope shot LOL

[BEP]

 

Ok. I assumed it should be 6 but the 10X side was highlighted.

I must wind a new coil set. Then, I should be able to generate the waveform, setup marker pulses, scope fields, etc.

Off to the bench. If the wife sees me at the computer I'll receive a new task 

[Peterae]

Just means it is set for x10 probe.

I have not given up yet, i need to get back to it as soon as i can i would probably say it must be dam hard to find the correct position, i was not using a marker so maybe the phase is shifting to indicate when i am there, certainly not seen the waveform shape change anyway, it maybe a case of opening up the rotor/coil gap even more.

I will first try to study this with just the hall and 2 magnets and see if i can judge how critical the adjustment is.

[BEP]

Regarding the biasing magnets, when a rotor magnet or any other magnet passes a coil, the output of the coil will be defined by the extreme change in the magnetic field environment around the coil going from no field, to full field, to no field. Now when you are biasing the coil, it seems to me that the coil output will be reduced because the coil no longer can see the greatest  extreme change in field because there is always a field present, say partial field, full field, partial field, then the rotor magnet has to overcome that partial field for the coil to see the difference in the two and output what it does.

If anyone has an interest in this they should perform an experiment. The laws of induction are quite clear but almost everyone pays no attention to the details.
Yes, adding a magnet to a ferrous core coil decreases the inductance. You would think that means less coil voltage output. This is true if the fields aren't balanced well enough.

Change in relative motion - change in loop area, change in magnetic field strength .... AND change in angle of the magnetic field relative to the loop.

All play a role in induction. Make all of them work for you at the same time and you will have the highest possible coil output.

The opposing rotor magnet to the fixed stator magnet creates a radial field. This means the coils sees all of the above from the rotor mag approach to the exit.

You don't need thousands of RPM.

I know of a motor design using the same principles to allow the DC motor to work with no commutation. Unfortunately, it does have brushes but they do not switch.