Edwin Vincent Gray's conversion tube

[Spokane 1]

The winding being at the same time a ferromagnetic core, it is likely that at a certain pulse level, the iron is magnetically saturated, which explains the non-linearity.

Dear F6FLT

Saturation is exactly what I'm looking for, specifically at what general current level with this setup. (wire size, turns, coil layout).

This is just the first step in exploring the proposed "Radiant Event". The next step is to interrupt the secondary current at some high value. This is challenging with a large DC current and has proven to be the keystone process (and stumbling block) in these kinds of technologies.

Most explorers seemed to have had intermittent luck with high voltage quenched arcs. Stubblefield seems to have achieved the same kind of process at low voltage and current. Perhaps he was onto some other process? Like Hendershot.

I really think this is an area that is worth exploring in greater detail.

Thank you for the technical observation.

Mark McKay

[Spokane 1]

Thanks for sharing Mark

Curious to see what will happen when you invert the transformer: pulsing the Fe wire instead of copper...

There are a few other simple permutations to try as well, as long as the experiment is in-place:   pulsing both in parallel (both aiding and opposing), and in-series aiding+opposing (common-mode choke style).

Dear Hakasays,

These suggested test arrangements will be on the experimental docket for the next couple of weeks.

Mark McKay

[Spokane 1]

10/25/2022   GRAY'S 4TH PATENT 1978 IN THE UK

Dear All,

For those of you who have never seen the "4th Patent" here it is. I never got a whole lot out of it. I thought it was yet another attempt to patent some important feature of the process yet not even give a hint as to just what the process was. Probably Gray thought he could be in a better position to sell his "Concept Technology" if he had more patents.
I don't know, but UK patents at the time could have been cheaper.

To me the important feature was the shunt diode in parallel with the discharge capacitor. This keeps the discharge current from ringing and promotes a long current tail. I have always thought that a unidirectional primary current was a technical requirement for this process.

Anyway this patent was filed filed in Aug 1978 just before Gray, Hackenburger and Mark Gray spent a year in Dodge City Kansas. The patent was awarded in 1980, the year that Mr. Hackenburger died. This patent was probably composed by Mr. Hackenburger even though it is owned by Zetex Limited, which he probably held a pretty good chunk of shares in.

There are several other supporting patents listed, but I haven't followed to follow up on them.

Mark McKay

[Grumpy]

10/25/2022   GRAY'S 4TH PATENT 1978 IN THE UK

Dear All,

For those of you who have never seen the "4th Patent" here it is. I never got a whole lot out of it. I thought it was yet another attempt to patent some important feature of the process yet not even give a hint as to just what the process was. Probably Gray thought he could be in a better position to sell his "Concept Technology" if he had more patents.
I don't know, but UK patents at the time could have been cheaper.

To me the important feature was the shunt diode in parallel with the discharge capacitor. This keeps the discharge current from ringing and promotes a long current tail. I have always thought that a unidirectional primary current was a technical requirement for this process.

Anyway this patent was filed filed in Aug 1978 just before Gray, Hackenburger and Mark Gray spent a year in Dodge City Kansas. The patent was awarded in 1980, the year that Mr. Hackenburger died. This patent was probably composed by Mr. Hackenburger even though it is owned by Zetex Limited, which he probably held a pretty good chunk of shares in.

There are several other patents listed, but I haven't followed to followed up on them.

Mark McKay

Hello Mark,
I  use almost this same circuit to send nanosecond pulses to an air-core coil to produce the RE effect.  To me, the diode is a slightly misplaced flyback diode for the coil.  The capacitor sets the pulse width.  A RC damper is required because of the ringing.  He's switching the low-side which tells me he's just turning the coil on and off, so just pulsing it over and over.  Since he is using a DC-DC converter for HV, this tells me the current is very low, in the low mA range.

[Spokane 1]

Hello Mark,
I  use almost this same circuit to send nanosecond pulses to an air-core coil to produce the RE effect.  To me, the diode is a slightly misplaced flyback diode for the coil.  The capacitor sets the pulse width.  A RC damper is required because of the ringing.  He's switching the low-side which tells me he's just turning the coil on and off, so just pulsing it over and over.  Since he is using a DC-DC converter for HV, this tells me the current is very low, in the low mA range.

Dear Mr. Grumpy,

I see we are on the same page as far as the over all concept goes, however I question the "the low mA range". Perhaps that is what you are seeing in your experiments. In my setup the primary pulse current reaches 101 Amps in about 70 micro seconds (at 3000 VDC) then quickly drops off. The re-charging current for the pulse capacitor is pretty high as well. It takes a full 5 seconds to recharge my capacitor bank with a power supply that is suppose to deliver 75 mA.

Now our whole discussion revolves around the size of pulse capacitor used. Right now I'm using 8 each 5 uF 5kV capacitors connected in parallel. Now what the Gray team use and when is a whole different matter.

Hand written notes on the motor patent for the EMA4-E1 listed 18 capacitors used (which implied 18 power supplies). Now all of those capacitors had to be stuffed in the black box on top of the motor, so they were not very big - if you assume the "transformer" was about the size of a can ignition coil. When Hackenburger swapped out these mechanical contact supplies for his transistor versions he had to add a big box onto the back of the motor for the EMA4-E2 version. I have no idea what size capacitor they were using in these applications.

The Field notes that Ron Cole (not Marvin Cole) took from memory of the Converter Switching Element Tubes (CEST) that John Bedini posted shows large 5uF at 5 kV capacitors being used - in fact two of them, but this was a different technology altogether.

Then in 1976 the EMA6 sported three each large dual HV capacitors (probably custom made at his favorite capacitor vendor). Now just how much capacitance can you stuff in a square can about the size of a large lunch box with commercial 1976 technology?  I figure more than 5 uF. I would venture more around 50 uF.

The surviving Kansas era motors used 50 uF capacitors (six each motor), But I was told by Nelson Schlaft that Gray also employed 100 uF capacitors as well.

Anyway to work with these kinds of capacitors it requires some significant current if they are being pulsed a few times a second. I don't believe that all the current came from the DC-DC converter, maybe 10% of it. The rest came from a secret recycle circuit, but that is another post.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter.

Mark McKay

[Grumpy]

From what you've been saying in your post over the last few weeks, it seems that Gray had a good working system and then somehow lost the magic ingredient and then resorted to brute force with the aid of electrical engineers using known methods.

[Spokane 1]

From what you've been saying in your post over the last few weeks, it seems that Gray had a good working system and then somehow lost the magic ingredient and then resorted to brute force with the aid of electrical engineers using known methods.

Dear Grumpy,

Close, but not quite. It was Gray's neighbor and partner Marvin Cole who developed the working system from 1957 to 1964. For unknown reasons Mr. Cole abruptly left the project in 1972 and left all the equipment behind. Gray then hired Hackenburger, a solid state EE to finish off and improve the technology, which it appears he did until his death in 1980. The magic was lost when Gray hired an aviation electronics technician to take over without telling him what the real intent was. Nelson Schlaft unknowingly resorted to the brute force methods to get the motors to work (except now they took 10 KVA to run with no load). From then on Gray was attempting to sell bogus technology until his death in 1989. Gray never did understand the real "Magic" even though he may have had a simple idea as to what went where. All he had to sell were test results from 1973 and 1979. The motors never did work after 1980.

Mark McKay

[Spokane 1]

10-26-2022 EXPLORING ONE-SHOT INTERRUPTING METHODS

Dear All,

From my studies it appears that the "Gray" technology is essentially a pulse process, therefore it seems that useful information can be gleaned from observing individual events. It is also proposed that the "Radiant Event" takes place when a large current is quickly interrupted. So, it is worth considering some simple single shot methods to break the current flow. Here are three methods to review.

A 1/2 Amp AGC fuse as a current interrupter.

I just happen to have a number of 1/2 Amp AGC fuses that I acquired from a university auction. The 3000 VDC pulse results in a shorted secondary current of about 66 Amps. The first question is how fast can a metal fuse react.

Well, it responds quick enough at about 66 microseconds, however that is about 30 micro seconds after the current peak has been reached. That might have been fast enough BUT, the fuse continues to conduct for the duration of the current pulse of about 350 microseconds - despite being vaporized. I suspect that the resulting metal vapor provides an effective current path at these time scales. Now, power fuses have an interruption current rating. I don't know what that is for an AGC fuse of this size but it doesn't matter. Is not going to work in this application. See scope trace below.

#40 AWG Tin coated copper Exploding wire fuse

Perhaps it is the glass envelope that is containing the metal vapor gasses for longer than I would like. Having an open fine wire might improve the current interruption properties,

Wrong. That fine wire will pass a 60 Amp pulse and not even get red at this time scale.

#40 Nichrome Exploding wire

Perhaps a wire with more resistance will explode and clear the current path. This experiment use a 2" length of the Nichrome wire. This added another 1.7 ohms to the loop resistance of the iron winding which is already sitting at 20 ohms. So, that is about a 10% increase in total loop resistance which will reduce the overall short circuit current.

Well, it certainly exploded much like a fire cracker and it was fast at 63 microseconds which was ahead of the current peak, but it failed to interrupt the loop current. In fact after the explosion the current increased because the 1.7 resistance was gone, but there must have been plenty of local metal gas ions to sustain the current flow. So much for the idea of a metal fuse approach

Thoughts

It looks like I shall have to look towards other methods of switching. I think I shall call Paul Babcock (he is local) and get his patented circuit for fast HV switching that uses two each SCR and a transistor. At the conference he claimed that the use of Silicon Carbide transistors has improve the performance of his circuit even more. I also need to do some open circuit voltage measurements and see just how high of a BEMF voltage I need to deal with using this particular kind of transformer.

Mark McKay

[forest]

Do you have capacitors from Cornell Dubilier ? I'm reading now Tesla lecture from 1897 when he strongly advice special process of manuacturing capacitors for his method of conversion. He said his circuit will oscillate for minute or more. Assumption : we do not know how to properly replicate his method of conversion and without that we cannot go further and replicate radiant energy.

[Spokane 1]

Do you have capacitors from Cornell Dubilier ? I'm reading now Tesla lecture from 1897 when he strongly advice special process of manuacturing capacitors for his method of conversion. He said his circuit will oscillate for minute or more. Assumption : we do not know how to properly replicate his method of conversion and without that we cannot go further and replicate radiant energy.

Dear Forest.

In fact I do have some Cornell Dubilier capacitors in my collection, but they are the kind that were used in 60's radio and TV. Is Cornell Dubilier still in business? Last time I checked the name brand had been purchased by another company and their product line greatly reduced.

I'm sure that in 1897 Dr. Tesla recommended the use of that brand of capacitor especially because they bought the patent rights to his manufacturing process. No doubt the quality of the capacitor dielectric will be important for the creation of the "Radiant Event".(That is what I call it for lack of a better term) I have been told that "Gray" used mica capacitors. Which is possible because even in 1981 he was having his capacitors custom made. The capacitors that survived from the same company are not mica but standard HV polymer construction. A mica capacitor with that much capacitance (50 uF)would be huge. I would guess about the size of a suitcase and cost $$$.

We are probably not going to be able to replicate Dr. Tesla's 1987 technology, but we do have a chance at replicating the Marvin Cole technology from 1973. According to E.V. Gray the original device (or plans) they started with originated from Dr. Tesla via a Mr. Popoff who claimed to have worked for Dr. Tesla before his death in 1943. (Popoff must have been an old man when that transfer was made). I suspect that if this account is near correct then Dr. Tesla had made some improvements to his method of Radiant Energy production.

We have to work with what we can get and HV polymer capacitors are on the shelf, until such time we determine that something else is better that justifies the cost - like aluminum sponge laser pulse capacitors.

Mark McKay

[Jerry Volland]

Looking at Ed Gray's Energy System, from my perspective, I think I've spotted the little unknowing mistake which kept the motors from being overly efficient.  Kinking the output wire from one of the conversion circuit capacitors will, in fact, introduce a phase shift.  This will ruin both the appearance, and the effectiveness, of the over/under waveform, and it's energy field.

I have to go back and correct the wire art on my Electrical Conversion Boards.  And the same thing goes for the grid wires in my converter tube, which starts off with just a single spark to begin with, then splits it into the non classical waveform.

*****
Use your own free will, or someone else will use it for you.

[Jerry Volland]

I've decided to donate another invention to the community.  Here's my apparatus for magnetic quenching, since others have had difficulty with that.  An Ignition coil provides a spark between the plugs, which are insulated from the hard drive magnet.  The spark flows parallel with the flux lines from one end of the magnet to the other, just as Tesla showed with his electromagnet pole pieces.  What I discovered is that a capacitor will also discharge between the plugs' ground bodies, due to the presence of an electron sheath around the inductive spark.  This produces a pale blue tube spark which makes a hissing sound, like compressed air.

This was quite a while back, but I'm pretty sure I had a 100 mH inductor in series with my 7.5 kV, 16 mfd capacitor.  Also, I did not have a cap across the plugs' input, something Tesla stated will improve the Ignitron spark only effect.  I'll try around 55 pf.  (Without a shunt cap, all I saw were tiny yellow spheres running down the center of the coil's spark - a really weak effect).  I'll also see if a momentary pulse from the coil will only discharge part of the cap's charge.  A switchable Interruptor would have value. 

I'd like to be able to configure it for 12 to 24 VDC, or even less.  If it'll run at a Rife Machine's potential, and if I can split that positive, then I may not have to breathe some Cumin smoke the next time I get Covid.

[Jerry Volland]

I may file for a patent on this switch - unless someone else will shoulder that burden.  (Under their own name or otherwise). Then someone down the line can find it, even in the next century.  Otherwise, the information is gone as soon as this forum disappears.

[Hakasays]

What I discovered is that a capacitor will also discharge between the plugs' ground bodies, due to the presence of an electron sheath around the inductive spark.  This produces a pale blue tube spark which makes a hissing sound, like compressed air.

Is the setup akin to a 'plasma ignition' circuit?  In those designs, they use the HV from the ignition coil to trigger the discharge of a low-voltage high-uF capacitor.  Was discussed at a couple ESTC conferences a few years back.
http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/energetic-forum-discussion/renewable-energy/7997-ignition-secrets-by-aaron-murakami-new-release#post204874

Or are you talking about two distinct discharges from the inner and outer plug body?

[Jerry Volland]

This produces two distinct discharges.  The tube shaped spark from the capacitor circuit does not touch the center trigger spark from the coil.

[Jerry Volland]

I'm driving my Ignition coil with a one MFD cap in series with an AC light dimmer.  (Thanks, YouTube).  It doesn't work as well with just the current limiting cap in series with the coil's primary.