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Author Topic: Romero and Wire X Dilemma  (Read 85807 times)
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@EM

You are wrong man. The two red wires on the top right are for a generator pair. Generator pairs have either red/red, red/black, or orange/black going between levels. Those are two reds for the coil underneath and have nothing to do with Wire X. Near the Wire X Red and Black wires, as I explained and show, you see the orange and black wire for the gen coils at that position. You will have to do better then that. But, as a true friend, let me save you some time by saying you will not be able to explain this. There is only one explanation.

and @chrisC

I am amazed that you agree with @EMs added wire. Wow, how close did you look to confirm this? I think you should just sit back before you shoot off your mouth confirming your level of insight will be good to harvest paraplegic worms. Not impressed. Besides, if you are so smart, why did you not see this before? I guess you were not looking either.

Sorry again.

wattsup


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If I was going to fake it by running wires down the centre hole, I would have made sure the device fully covered the hole. 2 more inches would have done it.

 :-\

.99

.99

Sometimes the hole is covered, sometimes it is not, but it will give us a boost of energy in both cases.  ;D

GL.
   
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If I was going to fake it by running wires down the centre hole, I would have made sure the device fully covered the hole. 2 more inches would have done it.

 :-\

.99

@.99
Well said. Words of wisdom indeed. If Romero went through this length to fake a self runner Muller, he would not be so stupid to shove it down a bottomless hole as some idiots would suggest. Nuff said.

cheers
chrisC
   
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If I was going to fake it by running wires down the centre hole, I would have made sure the device fully covered the hole. 2 more inches would have done it.
 :-\

.99

@poynt99

The last image grab I took, I had a choice of 3 frames. That's about 1/10th of a second. In a youtube video you will never see it. In VirtualDubMod (VDM), I do see it frame by frame and close up as I want. The youtube video is 20 minutes or 1200 seconds long. My VDM of it is 35932 frames. I am at 30 frames per second. Even Romero did not see it since he made a concerted effort to avoid that area and avoid under the table. The camera was there for not even half a second in a 20 minute video. He kept the video as close up all the time. In Video 1, Wire Xs go to the battery. In Video 2, why would you think the Wire Xs are going anywhere else when there is a definite willful intent to hide this from the viewer? Where are they going?

wattsup


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Calm down on the name calling guys.

Or soon we're going to have to ban the whole forum!  :P

.99
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I don't know the answer yet wattsup.

I just wanted to point out another factor to consider, either way.

You make some valid points that support your assertion, however, imho there is still not sufficient evidence to say with 100% certainty that is was faked.

Regards,
.99
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
A shot by wattsup; slightly enhanced (gamma level to bring out the black) and further annotated.

It does appear a little more suspicious now  ???

Contributed by a friend.
   
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What I have noticed is the BLACK X wire is of smaller gauge than RED -X. You would think he would have used the same gauge for both supply lines  I photograph all of my breadboards with a 6 MP camera. When I go back to these HD photos, I am amazed sometime how hard it is to follow the wires.

HHOforVOLTS
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
What I have noticed is the BLACK X wire is of smaller gauge than RED -X. You would think he would have used the same gauge for both supply lines  I photograph all of my breadboards with a 6 MP camera. When I go back to these HD photos, I am amazed sometime how hard it is to follow the wires.

HHOforVOLTS

They appear to be the same gauge to me, especially if you look just before they would be going down the hole (if that is what they are doing).

.99
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
At 9:52 of the first video, it looks like the X-wires are there, and they run over to the battery and/or ammeter.

The RED in particular has that distinctive curve in both instances, only it does seem to eventually go "down" in the second video, whereas it clearly goes "lateral" in the first.

.99
   
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A shot by wattsup; slightly enhanced (gamma level to bring out the black) and further annotated.

It does appear a little more suspicious now  ???

Contributed by a friend.

Please say thank you to your friend.

The last question I had was, where does the Black Wire X go once it comes from the hole. So here it is coming out of the DC output rail of the FWBR on the coil just before the D22 drive circuit.

Also, I forgot to mention that two of the gen coil pairs had black and black going between the two coils.

Once you know all this and re-look at the video, you can sense the deliberate evasive manoeuvrings he was doing when filming this.

I think the case is now closed, or should I say the case is now open to work out a better method of operation taking this past Romeros checkmate.

wattsup


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Please say thank you to your friend.

The last question I had was, where does the Black Wire X go once it comes from the hole. So here it is coming out of the DC output rail of the FWBR on the coil just before the D22 drive circuit.

Also, I forgot to mention that two of the gen coil pairs had black and black going between the two coils.

Once you know all this and re-look at the video, you can sense the deliberate evasive manoeuvrings he was doing when filming this.

I think the case is now closed, or should I say the case is now open to work out a better method of operation taking this past Romeros checkmate.

wattsup


Nice work Wattsup. The good thing is that Romero has focussed people on learning more about how this device may be able to self-run and more importantly to never take a video at face value.

Hoppy























   
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@all

Well looks like the moderator at OU took my posts down, showing again the level of general stupidity of those that cannot take the truth.

A member there @none, posted some very good quality images of the same angles but they removed those as well so I invited him to post here. But now the schmoes think I am @none. What a world. Let them do what they want.

@peterae

I know this all sounds crazy, but here is what I just posted at OU today.

"Look, as of today, instead of asking "How did it work", you can now ask yourself either "Why did it NOT work" or better still "HOW WILL IT WORK". If you are comfortable with the CHALLENGE, then by all means go ahead."

On the outset of this building I urged guys to design their wheel so their coils could be removed and turned over. This is one of the limitations of building fixed systems is that you cannot do the scientific testing of all the variables, hence you are still left with a good number of unknowns that are available right at your finger tips.

Romero did work on his wheel since you can tell from the build and the videos. But the wheel did not do as he had anticipated so he decided to make a video of how his wheel SHOULD work. Then he says the MIB is after him so he does not have to show the wheel any more. But curiously, he does come back with a rinky dink toy and guys, like the ostriches we are, decided to put their heads in the sand and just follow along. Believe me, every time you come up with a good idea on the function, Romero will try it on his wheel but he will remain in the background. I bet you Romero is trying the AOAO as we speak. lol

So he will just sit back and let all you guys run around and one day someone will come up with the "right mix". He will then do it on his wheel and one day "miraculously" he will decide to return with his wheel now working and his videos will show no more tricks.

There is a part of human nature that is very difficult to absorb when men with brains decide to act like inconsiderate babies.

Remember I mentioned to try and put another coil is series with the drive coils with the pulse on the drive coil side and see how it ran.

@GK

I will respond to your PM today. Thanks.

wattsup


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Wattsup

Nice work! ;) Sadly, those who believe not even consider to think about the possibilty that Romero may faked the video, however he admitted it long ago by himself too.

They all eating Bolt words, and believing the rotor speed increase under shorted condition is the proof of the concept. :D I wonder how much more time they will need to realize there is nothing mysterious about that, and the only source which injecting power to that system is the battery or PSU.


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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Let us ponder another angle:
Rouk has 2 magnacoaster devices. He has the rotor version and the linear version, the line of magnets.
If we exclude all the mechanicals of the rotor version what are we left with? Correct, the linear version.
He could surely present a schematic for that and it could not be made obfuscated. No?
He did contact me about my versions and said that his versions did not pan out. He showed his with magnets that were large and neos. The clue to me was to go with a weaker field which is the next test. One of my controllers has problems and am waiting for Jason to get with me to solve it then i can get back to it.
Rouk doesn,t need high rpms and neither did Muller. Another clue.
I see this demo as a different beast. Everybody assumed it was rpm based.
I also think Rouk is Marco. Both hail from the UK and both have shown excellant design and craftsmanship. Their vidoes are similar too. Some graphics, no voice, sharp builds.
« Last Edit: 2011-06-20, 16:22:25 by giantkiller »


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tExB=qr
Let us ponder another angle:
Rouk has 2 magnacoaster devices. He has the rotor version and the linear version, the line of magnets.
Rouk doesn,t need high rpms and neither did Muller. Another clue.
I see this demo as a different beast. Everybody assumed it was rpm based.
I also think Rouk is Marco. Both hail from the UK and both have shown excellant design and craftsmanship. Their vidoes are similar too. Some graphics, no voice, sharp builds.

If gain is not related to RPM's, then expect Romero's Device to be a fake, or error. 
   

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg291824#msg291824
I take it this is true.

Also,
Higher rpms will give gain because of the quicker flux disconnect / reconnect, obviously. But higher rpms is not the only way.
But if you want higher rpms then spin a flux cutter and not the magnets. Muller,s and Smith's cutters of aluminum kept the connection fields at bay absolutely. Then let the fields connect through a very fast and slim window. Very low mass centrifugal force too, nothing attached. And this one can spin as fast as one needs. No self-destructive tendencies.


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Wattsup,    you dissapoint me buddy!


Wire X was most likely used by RomeroUK in an attempt to run both motor coils from one sensor/controller board as he mentioned at one time.   It was than removed and is not seen in the Self run Video.   Look at the coil it's going to, its the one after the hall sensor.  If it has nothing to do with the coils, at least we see its BEGINING AND END.   It doesn't go under the table.


EM
« Last Edit: 2011-06-20, 22:31:33 by EMdevices »
   
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@wattsup
Quote
There is a part of human nature that is very difficult to absorb when men with brains decide to act like inconsiderate babies.
I find it kind of odd that anyone would consider another person as an inconsiderate baby simply because they do not agree with their opinion. Generally mature adults understand we are all individuals and have different perspectives and opinions about things and respect these differences. Otherwise people might think everyone who does not agree with them or thinks differently is stupid or a baby and that is not very mature at all.
Regards
AC


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I don't like morning people... or mornings or people

Be careful when you blindly follow the Masses... sometimes the "M" is silent.
   
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Wattsup,    you dissapoint me budy!
Wire X was most likely used by RomeroUK in an attempt to run both motor coils from one sensor/controller board as he mentioned at one time.   It was than removed and is not seen in the Self run Video.   Look at the coil it's going to, its the one after the hall sensor.  If it has nothing to do with the coils, at least we see its BEGINING AND END.   It doesn't go under the table.
EM
PS.   Actually a better question is to explore what those edge connectors are for.   They appear to only have one wire plugging in, and judging from the other card, it appears to be the main positive rail, because the wires to fire the coils are coming from another 2 wire connectors in the middle of the boards.   So this wire 'X' is just another wire to make a connection, either left there from some previous experiments to fire both coils from one hall sensor, or used to tap into the rail voltage, or whatever.

Again, you are simply wrong about your assessment.There is absolutely no other use for Wire X then to simply supply the output directly from the battery. Certainly not to "run both motor coils from one sensor/controller board". Granted, you can believe what you want. I would say more, but will not.

wattsup

PS: Boiling it all down, I would call it Incitement to Replicate Under False Pretenses. (IRUFP)


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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
Ah yes, but for the umpteenth billion time men of education follow the mystery into the consumptive dark abyss hoping to be the true hero and lead the other lost to the way out. To be the one who stands out amongst the others of lesser qualitay. Is creativity that really hard to behold?
I've never followed the pied piper but once in my life and that is Steven Mark. 'Come' He beckons. 'Look at this!'. And like the rest he leads with a mystery to transform our curiosity into action.

T'is a wonderful adventure, isn't it? Careful of the mushrooms and Cheshire cat. For if you grow too big you can pet the cat, but if too small you'll be eaten.


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wattsup,

Do you not agree that we see the BEGINING and the END of that wire?     

And that it does not go UNDER THE TABLE?



In this image from the self run video  (notice the cap)  we don't see this wire.  So I'll give you this much credit:  You found a wire that was subsequently removed.   Big deal !

EM


   

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Gentlemen,

The work Wattsup did on this (and I hope he keeps doing) is absolutely required as part of the process. His nomenclature drives me up a curtain but that has nothing to do with the price of beans.

Every one of us should be looking for inconsistencies in all such claims. Not ONLY wild claims posted on YouTube but also analyzed data, videos, pictures AND OPINIONS by others (Including MINE).  :)

I don't care what others say. You see what you expect to see. If you have no mental reference for what you think you are seeing your mind will compensate by making it something you can understand.

That said.... analyzed pics, frames, videos or simulations have no more value as truth than that which is being analyzed.

If you are basing a build solely upon those two videos you are already in deep oatmeal  :P

If you think you know how it works ( or doesn't) then test the idea without going full-bore on the whole device.



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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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wattsup,

Do you not agree that we see the BEGINING and the END of that wire?    

And that it does not go UNDER THE TABLE?



In this image from the self run video  (notice the cap)  we don't see this wire.  So I'll give you this much credit:  You found a wire that was subsequently removed.   Big deal !

EM

@EM. We can tell if people know their stuff or not by their self congratulatory gestures and their (in)ability to trace wires!

Anyway, Romero acknowledged you're one of the people who knows what they are doing and on the right track at the other forum. Keep it up. All the RF work is not in vain. haha.  I've got the first set of coils tuned in bucking mode yesterday and sure enough, the RPM shot up from around 876 RPM to 1432 RPM! Not kidding. At 15VDC and the input current went down from 610mA to 490mA, with accompanying almost perfect increasing amplitude sine waves! Romero is a gem indeed. I hope to post some scope shots in the other forum tomorrow before taking off overseas for 3 weeks.

cheers
chrisC




   

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tExB=qr

That said.... analyzed pics, frames, videos or simulations have no more value as truth than that which is being analyzed.

If you are basing a build solely upon those two videos you are already in deep oatmeal  :P

If you think you know how it works ( or doesn't) then test the idea without going full-bore on the whole device.



  Aaahhh....  The voice of reason and sanity! 
   
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