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Author Topic: The Problem with Meyer  (Read 18320 times)
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With reference to some recent email contacts regarding Stanley Meyer's WFC technology, I'd like to direct people here rather than to reply individually. For obvious reasons I'd much rather people discuss the subject openly here and air their thoughts on the public forum rather than privately via personal emails.

So, for anyone interested in Stanley Meyer, his WFC and his Technical Briefs, then I would like to bring to your attention my thoughts on the subject.

The following was written by me a couple of years ago over on Hartmann's Free Energy Forum (overunity.com). I have provided a link to the full thread at the bottom.  I should just say that - as you will no doubt find - Hartmann locked out the thread, claiming that I was a perpetrator of disinformation.  Why he should do this is anyone's guess as in reality all I did was highlight the many blatant errors and inaccuracies of Meyer's Technical Brief. I just put it down to either, Hartmann's general ignorance on the subject, his ulterior motives or dare I say his utter stupidity!

Quote
The problem with Meyer

This post will no doubt be considered somewhat controversial, but it should not necessarily be regarded as negative. The purpose of this post is to highlight the often ignored or over-looked problems with Meyer and the Meyer information, and to openly portray my personal thoughts on the subject, in order to get people actually THINKING. I’m not inclined to post idle, ill-considered or thoughtless rubbish, so please bear with me.

Some years ago I remember getting a copy of Meyer’s technical brief:

The Birth of New Technology
WATER FUEL CELL
HYDROGEN FRACTURING PROCESS

Having a keen interest in this subject, as well as being very practically minded and hands-on, I remember being very excited by the prospects of learning the secrets to his WFC from the 100 or so pages.  Unfortunately, I also remember only being a few pages into it before I found obvious flaws in the science and electronics - indeed my suspicions were raised from the very first page.  I nevertheless continued to read, noting the many and varied problems as I went.

After reading Meyer’s technical brief, I was left with many more questions than answers.  Something was not right. Apart from the science described often being blatantly wrong, there were clearly pages of meaningless gobbledegook and invented words and terminology.  To my dismay, I realised there was nothing in the brief that could be confidently relied on as being accurate or indeed factual.  To me at least, it became quite clear that the author himself had very little understanding of science or electronics.  Not only was I disappointed by this, but this very fact in itself brought up the most important question of them all: Was Meyer simply a fraudster?

To be honest, after reading the Meyer technical brief, with all its pseudo-science and mumbo-jumbo, I started to feel that the whole thing was a big scam.  It was then brought to my attention that if the brief was copied using writing recognition software that, inconsistencies might be due to how it was copied. OK fair enough.

Sometime shortly after an Aussie, and ardent Meyer supporter (Murray, who now runs the Water Fuel Cell website) kindly sent me copies of the Meyer lecture videos. However, these videos did nothing for my confidence in Meyer, as his lecture (seemingly to a handful of non-intellects in a garage) was as consistently flawed as his technical briefs.  He talked and I listened, but nothing made any particular sense – it was all pseudo-science and pseudo-technical babble that, while sounding very impressive to the layman, actually meant nothing in any scientific terms. Excuses and explanations were running out - watching the Meyer videos my doubts and concerns were confirmed by Meyer himself.

To my mind there are only a few possible explanations:

1. Meyer discovered how to build a very efficient WFC, but did not have the background to understand the science behind it.
2. Meyer thought he was onto something with the WFC, acquiring funding before he had actually built a working WFC – thereby digging himself into a hole he was unable to ever get out of.
3. Meyer was a scammer and the whole thing was fraudulent from the start.

One of the above is likely very close to the mark, and with all of the relevant information available, no one should have to jump to any immediate or knee-jerk conclusions.  Of course, for those people that have no formal background education in science or electronics – those people without the education to see the flaws - then much of the information available is meaningless and blind faith and ignorance often wins the day.  Hence we get that set of Meyer groupies and fanatics who stand by Meyer’s every word, blindly following his lead without question... yet, curiously never actually being able to replicate Meyers process.

Some intelligent people will tell you that the only thing Meyer ever separated with any great efficiency was, ‘the ignorant and uninformed from their money’.  However, die-hard Meyer fans will not let mere ‘science or reality’ impose on their fantasies; they endeavour to remain uneducated - protectively cloaking themselves in ‘stupidity and blissful ignorance’.  This point is made clearly evident from the meaningless nonsense continually posted by several members of this forum

As a reasonably intelligent man, I would assume that Meyer surely knew that the only people he could fool with his pseudo-science would be the layman.  One would have thought that he must have known that none of what he said or wrote would stand up to any real scientific scrutiny, if not, this rather suggests more than a little naivety on his part.

In fact, if you watch the Meyer Introductory video here (top left – link below), you will see how scientists themselves were troubled by Meyer’s interpretation of the science.   This first video, not only depicts a Meyer WFC on a bench, reportedly producing as much as 1700x more gas than standard electrolysis, but also running cool and at just 500mA.  The video then goes on to show that Meyer’s Dune Buggy was using special water splitting injectors, this technology being a further advancement from the WFC depicted earlier on his work bench.

http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/

So where does this leave us?

Well it doesn’t necessarily mean that Meyer was a fraud, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Meyer had not discovered a way to vastly improve the efficiency of dissociating water. However, what I am inclined to believe is that the Meyer technical briefs and patents have no bearing on real science and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Hence, Meyer information cannot in truth be relied on in any shape or form when attempting to replicate a Meyer-type WFC.  The clues are there, but not much more.  Trying to understand Meyer’s interpretation of the science is where the real problems start.

Be assured that this post is in no way intended to dissuade people from researching or experimenting in this subject area. On the contrary, I am simply attempting to highlight how foolish it would be to accept without question anything written or said by Meyer as being gospel.  To simply overlook all the blatant technical flaws would be foolhardy in the extreme. Sometimes it is necessary to actively point out what is wrong - to see the nonsense for what it is - before you can move forward. If you are educated in this science then you will understand what I’m talking about, if you think that I’m simply out to cause trouble and dishonour Meyer’s name, then you need to get an education.  Use your brain, learn up on the subject, apply common sense, and above all ‘think’ for yourself!

These are of course only my personal thoughts and observations; that said, they are the thoughts and observations of a relatively well educated, and intelligent human being with an above average IQ and more than my fair share of common sense.

So, I would suggest that instead of trying to faithfully replicate a WFC from somewhat dubious Meyer patents, you instead try to focus your mind on understanding what needs to be done in order to achieve a desired result. Once you understand what you are trying to achieve, then you can go about designing and fabricating a unit and the necessary electronics to accomplish the task.

And, start from the WFC bench model and work from there, as unless you can crack it at that stage, your clearly wasting your time trying to apply WFC injectors, etc, to a car engine


http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7004.0
   
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My burning question is when the water powered Buggie was re-discovered, why couldn't they start it up again.
   

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Posts: 1404
...

Well it doesn’t necessarily mean that Meyer was a fraud, it doesn’t necessarily mean that
Meyer had not discovered a way to vastly improve the efficiency of dissociating water.
However, what I am inclined to believe is that the Meyer technical briefs and patents have
no bearing on real science and should be taken with a pinch of salt. Hence, Meyer
information cannot in truth be relied on in any shape or form when attempting to replicate
a Meyer-type WFC.  The clues are there, but not much more.  Trying to understand
Meyer’s interpretation of the science is where the real problems start.
...

You've said it well.  The only way to hope to make any sense from what Meyer
has done is by means of insights garnered from others who've made similar
observations.  Puharich sheds much light on the subject in particular.
Boyce has also experienced the phenomenon fleetingly and has given us
additional clues.  Put them all together and begin the sifting process.


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"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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My burning question is when the water powered Buggie was re-discovered, why couldn't they start it up again.

By all accounts it was far from complete when rediscoverd. It seems Meyer - or someone else - had partly dismantled it.  But don't forget that there is no record of this buggy ever being independently verified as working as claimed in the first place. It may have always just being a publicity stunt to attract funding.

If the buggy was the ultimate breakthrough, then why Meyer's brother, Stephen, would have not been aware of the buggy's whereabouts, or indeed why he would not have been anxious to obtain the buggy seems rather odd to me. Especially as Stephen Meyer seems to get somewhat involved in the technology after Stan's death.  But then nothing surrounding Meyer or his technical briefs ever seems to add up - 2 plus 2 never makes 4 in Meyer's world!
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Meyer's early PR brochures of the buggy smelled of a desire to attract investors. This was from the late 80's or early '90's. I was a bit more wide eyed and gullible back then, but still found it hard to swallow.

It also had some Biblical references on it. Still have that copy somewhere in the attic. Will have to look.

Around that time "Wireless World" did an article on the Meyer electrolysis claims. They did include the appropriate disclaimers. I was very surprised to see this appear in WW since it was a very nuts and bolts magazine.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Quote
It also had some Biblical references on it

Yep, Meyer was a bit of a religious nut - or a least made out he was!  

Fast Freddy - who incidentally has now, finally, just about lost all credibility... with everyone - also uses the religious angle with great vigour.  In FF's case particularly, I feel that it's just the image he likes to portray to make himself look righteous, honest and trustworthy (lol). This ploy appears to win over the god-fearing folk in droves, who then happily hand over their monies to him.

To my mind religion and science simply do not go hand in hand as they are very obviously contrary to each other. And for the life of me I've never understood how any scientist or student of science could believe in both science and also gods, magic, faeries. Surely one is just a contradiction of the other! But what do I know... I'm only human.  :)
   

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...

 And for the life of me I've never understood how any scientist or student of science could believe in both science and also gods, magic, faeries. Surely one is just a contradiction of the other! But what do I know... I'm only human.  :)

Yes, we are all "only human" which means that we
are vulnerable to being "programmed."

We all believe what we've been "programmed" to
believe.  Mind Control is a very real skill, as is the
art of Propaganda to advance any Agenda.

Our sense of what is Truth is deeply tempered by
our heavily manipulated thought processes and
our skewed perceptions.

For the time being we're all screwed.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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