Likely massive 2H2 + O2 blast

[MileHigh]

I have been expecting this to happen for years:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8299113

Reasons still unknown in massive Sylmar explosion

SYLMAR, LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- The cause of a massive explosion at a Sylmar business is still unknown, as two men remain hospitalized following the blast that blew them from the building.

The blast happened at about 4:20 p.m. Tuesday at a company called Rainbow of Hope in the 12300 block of Gladstone Avenue.

The area around the single-story building was still cordoned off Wednesday, as authorities continued their investigation into what caused the massive blast.

Officials from Cal/OSHA, California Occupational Safety and Health Administration, are involved in the investigation, trying to determine whether or not the company was following all of the proper rules and precautions.

Officials said the business was involved in a type of alternative energy program, separating hydrogen from water.

The owner of the building has identified one of the people injured as Timothy Larson, a Los Angeles firefighter who was off-duty at the time. Larson, who was critically injured, was transported to Providence Holy Cross Medical Center for treatment. He was injured in his legs and arms.

The other victim in the hospital has not been identified. A third person suffered minor injuries in the blast.

The building, which has been red-tagged, suffered extensive damage from the blast. The explosion gauged a giant hole in the roof of the building.

Witnesses reported feeling the blast as far as a mile away from the explosion site.

Tony Coca said he and his co-workers heard and felt the explosion near by, and they thought maybe a car had plowed into their building.

"We all got up and went out to see what happened, wondering what that noise was, and we just saw a bunch of debris coming down from the sky," described Coca. "I guess the whole building blew up, the roof was torn apart, and the roof was just falling from the sky, raining down."

In June 2010, there was a very similar explosion in a business in Simi Valley connected to Larson. His brother, 28-year-old Tyson Larson, was killed in that accident. That explosion also had connections to alternative energy production.

Bob Williamson with Wil Power Battery said the brothers were working on a new technology to create clean fuel from water.

"It concerns me because they had this explosion out in Simi, killing Tyson, and now this explosion, and they were very cautious. So I'm kind of surprised that this happened," said Williamson, who said Tim Larson demonstrated the technology for him and it seemed promising.

Authorities are focusing on hydrogen gas as the source of the explosion.

"It is our understanding this is a business that processes fuels from water, and that alternative fuel is apparently hydrogen, and somewhere in the process, an explosion occurred," said Los Angeles City Fire Department Assistant Chief Tony Varela.

Authorities said the force of the blast and the debris it launched into the air could have led to many more injuries.

The building owner said Larson assured him nothing dangerous was being done at the business.

Massive amounts of electrical energy are available to anybody from their wall socket.  If we assume for the sake of argument that they were electrolyzing water with AC, then you end up with a tank of 2H2 + O2 gas.   That's like having a sensitive nitroglycerin bomb in your lab, and one tiny spark can cause the tank of gas to explode.

It baffles me that people don't electrolyze their water with DC and keep separate hydrogen and oxygen tanks.  They can then combine the two gasses in the combustion chamber.

So much for "alternative energy" that comes from a wall socket.

MileHigh

[the_big_m_in_ok]

I have been expecting this to happen for years:

(Rest of the article above.)

It doesn't even take Brown's gas as such to do this, obviously.  Mixing H2 and O2 together is like the Hindenburg disaster happening again.

Even in a low voltage, high amperage arc, with carcon electrodes, one can get COH2, which can be described as acting like Brown's gas when properly burned.  It's said to be a lot safer to handle and store.

--Lee

[MileHigh]

Mixing H2 and O2 together is like the Hindenburg disaster happening again.

Of course the Hindenburg was filled with H2 and there was burning and flame at the interface between the H2 and O2 as they mixed together and the O2 came from the ambient air.

If the Hindenburg was filled with 2H2 + O2 (which doesn't really make sense, just a thought experiment) it would go up in a nearly instantaneous "Big Bang" and I don't think we would ever have heard the famous radio broadcast!

That's why I am suspecting they where putting 2H2 + O2 into a single tank.  It was a very energetic explosion and ripped the roof off of the building and was heard for miles.

MileHigh

[Farrah Day]

Right MH, like many gases, H2 is non-combustible by itself. You can't ignite H2 alone - it needs oxygen.

The hindenburg was full of H2 not hydroxy, so as you say MH, it did not instantly explode as would a stoichiometric mix of H2 and O2. And for it to have ignited at all means that oxygen must have firstly mixed with the H2.  I remember reading somewhere that paint on the canvas was to blame as it carried an electrostatic charge. But there still would've had to have been a rip or suchlike in the canvas in the first place. I don't think sabotage can be ruled out.

On various websites you hear of people (such as the infamous Fast Freddy) compressing and storing hydroxy, which is utter madness. Especially given that it does not even need a spark to ignite it - a static charge, or even (as crazy as it sounds) a sharp point or burr within the container can be enough to ignite the gases.

Sounds like they really don't know enough about what they are playing with! 

[EMdevices]

For a second I thought this was the old news story from last years explosion that killed Tyson Larson,  but I just noticed the date and this time it's his brother that is in critical condition.    What a tragedy!  

The cause of the explosion is most likely not the fact that they were containing hydrogen and oxygen in the same vessel, I would expect them to be smarter than that.    

What I think happened is similar to what blows the tops off nuclear reactors, e.g. Fukushima Diachi nuclear plant, and that is Hydrogen is generated, and due to its buoyancy, floats up and accumulates at the top of a poorly ventilated room.    Being in a large warehouse, it's easy to think that you are practically in the open and well ventilated working on a bench, but that can be a deadly assumption.   They should've had the fans running and the outside vents open, but being summer time and hot outside, they probably had the air conditioning going and the vents to the outside closed to keep it cool inside.     That's why these explosions occured in the Summer time!

EM

[Paul-R]

The cause of the explosion is most likely not the fact that they were containing hydrogen and
oxygen in the same vessel

...and under pressure. This is something that luminaries like Bob Boyce are always warning
against. Never pump up hydroxy gas.

[EMdevices]

edit:       For those that got to see what I posted, I'll tell you more later as these developments unfold. I might start a thread discussing some of these topics.  For those that didn't see what I posted,  don't worry about it, it was unrelated to this topic.

[giantkiller]

Burning fuel: The Cro magnum effort for hyper social activity.

Did anyone ever think to ponder: The higher the pressure aft the higher the resistance fore?

When one looks at alien magnetic manuvering there seems to be no firewall.

Maybe exhaust propulsion is not the answer but a spherical magnetic distortion generated to disequalize the center of balance within the sphere.

Mechanical : the wing. A downward pressure.
Alchemical: the explosion. An elimination pressure.
Magnetic: An distorting pressure.

[Allcanadian]

@Giantkiller

Did anyone ever think to ponder: The higher the pressure aft the higher the resistance fore?
When one looks at alien magnetic manuvering there seems to be no firewall.
Maybe exhaust propulsion is not the answer but a spherical magnetic distortion generated to disequalize the center of balance within the sphere.

I would agree that silly propellers beating at the air and rockets belching flames is not a sign of intelligence in my opinion. Now if a person actually understood what Gravity is in reality then I would think we would be able to find a way to negate this force acting in matter. Which would lead me to believe that nobody really has a freaking clue "what" gravity is in reality otherwise they would be able to manipulate it in some way, the logic kind of speaks for itself.
Regards
AC

[the_big_m_in_ok]

That's why I am suspecting they where putting 2H2 + O2 into a single tank.  It was a very energetic explosion and ripped the roof off of the building and was heard for miles.

MileHigh

Fukushima also comes to my mind.  Those blasts blew the outer containment building shells off, while accompanied by blast waves you could see in slow motion.  If these industrial researchers mixed H2 & O2, they were stupid enough to know better.  Everyone on this Board should know this.

--Lee

[BEP]

Burning fuel: The Cro magnum effort for hyper social activity.

Did anyone ever think to ponder: The higher the pressure aft the higher the resistance fore?

GK,

Forgive me but that sounds more like a body function and explains why I've never achieve much forward motion with it --- even when flames are involved