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Author Topic: Riddle me this...Interesting experiment / brain teaser  (Read 4566 times)
Group: Guest
Hello all!

What would "happen" if a person were to run two simultaneous currents through a water chanel, one rotating clockwise, one rotating counterclockwise?

A while back I was playing with a method of diverting a BEMF from a permanent magnet generator through an alternate path. The concept was called the Inverse Transformer.
The idea was to have a magnetic primary input, an conductive electric core, and a magnetic secondary. The magnetic secondary acts as a prefered path for the BEMF of the


1)The input into the device is a rotating disk with magnets of alternating polarity.

2)The "primary" of the transformer is a ferrite core with 1 turn.

3)The "core" is an electrical winding of copper, with 300 or so turns.

4) The "secondary" is a ferrite core with 1 turn.

When the secondary is left open, we see Lenz generator drag on the rotor. The magnetic primary induces a current within the copper core,
 which opposes the motion which created it. This is standard generator action. The BEMF is reflected back on the prime mover, and all standard drag conditions apply.

When the secondary is closed (shorted), it creates an equal and opposite force within the electrical winding which opposes the first current.
 The rotor now rotates much more freely, with very little drag.

With the addition of the closed path on the  magnetic secondary, the reflection occurs within the electrical winding.We have the forward EMF superimposed with the
BEMF within the same physical space (electrical winding). The Amp meter shows very little current, because it only reads the difference between these two EMFs or the
net of the two. Both currents are present as can be shown by the transfer of flux to the magnetic secondary, however our equipment cannot show this. This is very
much the equivilent of a standard transformer. The secondary reflects its BEMF to the magnetic core, within the core we then have two fluxes opposing one another
within the same space, reducing impedance on the primary causing an increase in amp draw. This is litterally the same concept, however an inverse.

Back to the question:
What if one were to replace the metalic electrical winding with a winding composed of water?

We know that the charge is carried by ions within the water, but we also know (from research and experiment) that the water molecule also responds to the current
by changing its orientation, i.e. it aligns physically with the current path.

So if we have two EMFs within the same water "core" each rotating oppsitely, what will be the result? How will the water molecules align? Will there be
two ionic currents? Or will they simply respond to the net difference between the two EMFs? I considered this last question, however with the standard transformer
and inverse transformer, we can tell that the fluxes and currents are both present within the same space.

For example, if we were to take a transfomer (standard) with a closed magnetic path, and wind a third winding around the entire transformer (which will not be
inductively coupled to either primary or secondary), we can measure the inductance of this winding. If we run a current through the primary, the 3rd winding will
show a decrease in inductance (think mag amp). If we then short the secondary, we will see yet another drop in inductance on our 3rd winding. This happens
because now the forward flux, and the reverse flux (from BEMF) occur within the same physical space of the core. I think you see what I am getting at here.

So if both EMF's are present within the water core, and the energy associated with this is not just the net difference, but the sum of the two (even though they
are in opposite directions) what will happen to the ionic action? To the polar orientation of the molecules?

I have not tried this experiment yet, but fully intend to once I get settled into my new place.
Group: Professor
Hero Member

Posts: 2878
  Welcome Armagdn03!   I have enjoyed your posts and insights on other forums.  Very much actually, and your videos.

  This puzzle you pose is a good one; I will have to think on it. 
Right now, its 1:29 am -- so I'd better sleep on it!  ;)
Group: Guest
Thanks so much Steve!

As you already know, but the other readers do not, Les K suggested an interesting addition to this experiment.
Add small drops of die to the water right before the power is switched on. any circulation or small vortices due
to the friction of counter rotating ionic flows will be made visible.
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